A conference affirming the reality of the Holocaust and decrying genocide, in the face of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's fevered fantasies! And it's held in the world's most populous Muslim country, modern, moderate Indonesia, the country that the Christian Science Monitor calls "an Islamic force for peace and progress"! What better chance would the nation's moderate Muslims have to demonstrate their rejection of the maniacal hatred Ahmadinejad represents? But instead we read that "security was tight" and that the event itself was "discreetly organized." Why, if Wahid indeed "remains a widely respected Muslim leader"? Couldn't those who respect him be found in sufficient numbers to allow for this event to be held openly and without fear?
Now, don't get me wrong: I am very happy that this conference took place at all. But when the mainstream media and government and law enforcement officials continue to insist that Muslims who abhor the jihad of Osama bin Laden et al make up the broad mainstream, it is odd that such conferences are so few, and so discreet.
"Bali conference slams Holocaust deniers," from the Washington Times, with thanks to Davida:
BALI, Indonesia -- An unusual conference to affirm the reality of the Holocaust opened yesterday in the world's most populous Muslim nation -- Indonesia -- with a Muslim leader criticizing Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for insisting the Nazi killing of 6 million Jews was a myth."Although I'm a good friend of Ahmadinejad, I have to say that he is wrong," said former Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid.
"I visited Auschwitz's Museum of Holocaust and I saw many shoes of dead people. Because of this, I believe the Holocaust happened," said Mr. Wahid, who remains a widely respected Muslim leader.
I'm sorry to be a crab, but it seems to me that Wahid's affirming the reality of the Holocaust because you saw a pile of shoes rather invites his opponents to suggest that the shoes were trucked in from cobblers and have nothing to do with mass murder. There is abundant firmer evidence of the reality of this genocide; I do hope he got around to mentioning that also.
The daylong conference on the resort island of Bali styled itself as the "anti-conference of Tehran," where a December 2006 meeting hosted by Mr. Ahmadinejad triggered worldwide condemnation for attempting to cast doubt on the genocide of World War II.The Bali conference brought together moderate Muslim leaders, Hindu spiritual head Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Buddhist teachers, a Jesuit priest and even rabbis -- rare in a country that does not officially recognize Israel or Judaism as a religion....
Why doesn't the widely respected Mr. Wahid prevail upon the modern, moderate Indonesian government to end this and recognize Israel and Judaism?
Security was tight at the five-star hotel that hosted the discreetly organized event. Indonesia's government is secular and most of its 190 million Muslims are moderate, but a vocal militant fringe has grown louder in recent years. Al Qaeda-linked terrorists have twice attacked Bali -- a mostly Hindu enclave -- killing more than 220 people....C. Holland Taylor, the chief executive officer of the U.S.-based Libforall foundation, said the predominantly Hindu island of Bali was chosen as host because it has itself been a victim of attacks by Islamic terrorists.
"This conference is focusing on all forms of violence conducted in the name of religion," he said.
"Our primary focus is on supporting moderate and progressive Muslims in their efforts to promote the culture of liberty and tolerance," the group states on its Web site.
Fantastic. I hope that this quietly staged and heavily guarded conference will now lead to some genuine action by those moderate and progressive Muslims.
Wahid Abdurrahman has always been unusual in his favorable attitude toward Israel. No doubt the impressionable Paul Wolfowitz, during his years as ambassador in Jakarta, took Wahid Abdurrahman's lack of hostility toward Israel -- which may have its roots in the sheer "indonesian-ness" of the psychological makeup of Wahid Abdurrahman. No doubt, like some others in Indonesia, Abdurrahman resents the forced arabization, which naturally accompanies or follows islamization, of what remains of the rich Hindu and Buddhist substratum, which in some places -- Bali -- is not a substratum but still a living tradition. The customs and manners of the peole, the art and music, the puppet-shows and folktales, as yet un-islamized (but the steady islamization, interrupted first by Dutch colonial rule, and then by the nationalist leaders who controlled the country for so many years, has been renewed under the influence of Arab money, and Arab dissemination of the "real Islam" through the use of Western technologies, including audiocassettes, videocassettes, and the Internet) are all regarded with hostility by the "real Muslims," and those who do not favor, who resist further arabization, could possibly be appealed to, possibly be made to see, here and there, that Islam is and always has been a vehicle for Arab supremacism -- and that is the best way to begin to reduce the menace of Islam, through lessening its appeal to non-Arab Muslims, to manageable proportions.
The theme of Islam as that vehicle of Arab supremacism should be stressed in Asia and in sub-Saharan, still non-Arab Africa. But meanwhile, all the American government can apparently think of as making war, or that goddam "war on terrorism," is to keep boots on the ground in Tarbaby Iraq, bringing "freedom" to "ordinary moms and dads" in the Middle East.
News From Everywhere for the Bush Admnistration: this war is not primiarly a military one. It is one mainly about money, about Da'wa, and about demographic conquest.
Put that in your nonexistent peace-and-war pipes, and smoke it.
"Although I'm a good friend of Ahmadinejad, I have to say that he is wrong," said former Indonesian President Abdurrahman Wahid.
"I visited Auschwitz's Museum of Holocaust and I saw many shoes of dead people. Because of this, I believe the Holocaust happened," said Mr. Wahid, who remains a widely respected Muslim leader.
That’s one scathing ‘slam’. Nice reporting Washington Times.
Wahid earned more dollars per word in State Department aid for this than Arnold earned per word during the filming of Terminator.
2004 US Aid to Indonesia :$122,000,000 (likely higher today)
"Although I'm a good friend of Ahmadinejad, I have to say that he is wrong," = 15 words
"I visited Auschwitz's Museum of Holocaust and I saw many shoes of dead people. Because of this, I believe the Holocaust happened," = 21 words
15 + 21 = 36 words total
$122,000,000 divided by 36 = $3.4 million per word, including pronouns.
If I remember right, this beats Schwarzenegger by something like 600%.
http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/aid/HRReportappendE.htm
BREAKING NEWS
Elder statesman Shimon Peres elected President of Israel
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-me/2007/jun/13/061303535.html
So much for "if the shoe fits".
your skepticism is warranted, Robert.
No way can I have respect for Abdurrahman Wahid
(Gus Dur)
Firstly,I can not forget that his paternal Grandfather, Hasyim Asyari was the founder of Nahdlatul Ulama/NU, which played a major role in the 1965 mass murders
Beginning in later October 1965, the Indonesian army and its civilian allies (espeically Muslim militia groups (Nahdlatul Ulama/NU) began to kill members and associates of the Indonesian Communist Party (PKI).
In most cases the killings were one-sided. In most cases the authorities arrested party members and members and leaders of affiliated organizations and held them in detention for some time before sending them out to be killed over subsequent weeks and months.
In some cases, the army and militias(Nahdlatul Ulama/NU) organized raids on communist villages or hamlets, slaughtering all or most of the inhabitants. The estimates of the death toll of the conflict range from over 100,000 to 3 million, but most scholars accept a figure of around 500,000.
Interesting to note,the muslims where murdering non muslims at a faster rate, than what the Germans where killing the Jews
The purging of two secularist parties, the Nationalists and the Communists, had a notable side effect of having given greater space for the development of Islamism in Indonesia. This included liberal, conservative, and extremist groups practicing Islam in Indonesia.
It widely believed by observers of Indonesian history and politics that Suharto's forces whipped up anti-Communist sentiment in part by exploiting conservative Muslims' fears of "godless" Communism to instigate a jihad against them during the civil war.
As for more mainstream groups, conservative Islamic groups Nahdlatul Ulama/NU became a prop of the regime for some time after the civil war.
During this time Wahid was in Egypt, employed with the Indonesian Embassy which was ordered to conduct an investigation on university students and give a report on their political stance. This order was then passed on to Wahid, who was charged with writing the reports
Wahid later returned to Jakartahe then conducted tours to pesantrens and madrasahs all around Java. It was a time where pesantren were desperate to gain state funding by adopting state-endorsed curricula and Wahid was concerned that that the traditional values of the pesantren were being damaged because of this change. Wahid was also concerned with the poverty of the pesantren which he saw during his tours. . It was at this time that Wahid finally decided to drop plans for overseas studies in favor of developing the pesantren.
Wahid's family background meant that sooner or later, he would be asked to play an active role in the running of NU.
In 1984 Wahid became chairman of Nahdlatul Ulama/NU, so the big question is, how can Wahid been seen as moderate, when he becomes chairman of a fascist organization that has the blood of more than a million people on its hands
Secondly,I do not forget how this snake was threatning to bring to Jakarta tens of thousands of armed supporters,when he was being forced to resign as president.
On 1st February 2001,, the DPR met to issue a memorandum against Wahid. Two memorandums constitutes an MPR Special Session where the impeachment and removal of a President would be legal. The vote was overwhelmingly for the memorandum and PKB members could only walk out in protest. The memorandum caused widespread protests by NU members. In East Java, NU members went around to Golkar's regional offices and thrashed it.I do not forget how his supporters where running riot here in East Java,burning and destroying. Or how they wrecked my car,and beat up a girl friend of mine.
Now to answer Mr Spencers Question
Why doesn't the widely respected Mr. Wahid prevail upon the modern, moderate Indonesian government to end this and recognize Israel and Judaism?
Because Wahid is not a man to be trusted, he is a greedy wolf in sheeps clothing, and is working for islamization in the form of moderation, and his supportters belong to some of the most fanatical muslims in Indonesia,consisting of East Javanese and Madurese who are violent by default
Remember Wahid was chairman of an organization that murdered millions yet the skumbag only says sorry
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/03/where-i-live-pt9.html
'And it's held in the world's most populous Muslim country'- Bali
Indonesia.
Unfortunately, sadly, Bali belongs to Indonesia.
An open target for Bucktooth Bashir who sent his suicide bombers on several occasions, because infidel females cavorting naked on the beaches of Bali is more offensive than slaughter to him. But in Bali we can (still) see the Hindu nation, the culture that Indonesia once was. Before Indonesia was turned into the Islamic mess that it is now.
Over to you, Hugh...
Take heart Robert. The word "unusual" in the first line of the Times story appears to indicate a subtle sea change in attitude. The Times are a-changin', as they say...
That such meagre nonsense is considered meaningful among Muslims is tragically pathetic.
Weren't all sane people beyond this "question" in 1945, already?
That Mohammedans are still 'struggling' with it shows their true intentions:
How can we continue hate the Jews and give them no moral sympathy for their suffering and still seem relatively human?
Might it be wise to remember the significance that shoes have in at least part of the Arab world? Remember the Iraqis who took off their shoes to strike the Saddam statue one of our tanks helped pull down in Baghdad? To us abandoning shoes may mean next to nothing. To Arabs abandoning wearable shoes may well be unthinkable.
{^_^}