They have it all backwards. It’s the Palestinians who are illegally occupying Israeli land. "Church Leaders Urge End to ‘Illegal Occupation,’" by Abdul Jalil Mustafa for Arab News:
AMMAN, 22 June 2007 - More than 130 Church leaders representing 550 million Christians worldwide yesterday ended a conference in Jordan by calling for an end to Israel’s “illegal occupation” of Palestinian territories.The three-day meeting, held under the auspices of the World Council of Churches (WCC) endorsed the central committee’s decision to launch the “Palestine Israel Ecumenical Forum.”
The forum seeks to “catalyze and coordinate new and existing church advocacy for peace aimed at ending the illegal occupation in accordance with UN resolutions, and demonstrate its commitment to inter-religious action for pace (sic) peace and justice that serves all the people of the region,” a WCC statement said.
“Churches have woken up to the issues in the Middle East like never been before. Another time we woke up is when we fought apartheid in Africa. This is another apartheid,” WCC General Secretary Samuel Kobia told reporters. “The WCC core group will reconvene before late September to begin making appeals for immediate action,” he said.
In their “urgent plea,” which stresses the UN resolutions are the basis for peace, the church clerics and affiliated associations vowed to take action as a united front.
The document expressed support for the Palestinian self-determination, described the Jewish settlements in Palestinian territories as “illegal and an obstacle to peace” and dubbed the separation barrier built by Israel as “a grave breach of international law.”
So often prejudice gets in the way of the facts. It is impossible to refer to Israel as an occupier of Palestinian lands, since strictly speaking there is no such thing as Palestinian territories. Before Israel’s capture of the so-called Palestinian territories in 1967, they belonged to Syria, Egypt and Jordan. There was no Palestine of the Palestinians. It was under the British Mandate until partition in 1948. The Arabs rejected the partition and declared war.
Before the British, there were the Turks, and so many others all the way back to the Kingdom of Judea, which was destroyed by the Romans nearly 2000 years ago. During this entire period, the land in question was never under Palestinian rule. Never. In fact, before 1967, when Egypt controlled the Gaza strip, they were never considered occupiers of Palestinian land. The Jordanians were never considered occupiers of the West Bank. There was no occupation, because the land had never been under the rule of the Palestinians.
The lands were only considered occupied once the Jews took charge. That was just a bit too much for everybody.
Fact: there never was a Palestine ruled by Palestinians. Therefore, no country can ever be accused of occupying Palestinian territory. There simply is no such thing.
And what’s with the comparison to apartheid? This is not a racial issue at all. If the Palestinians stopped killing Israeli civilians, there would be no need for this "apartheid."
Crossposted from The American Israeli Patriot.
I never cease to be amazed at the stupidity of the WCC they are the most PC,Leftwing,Tree Hugging Moonbats in creation and are a huge part of the problem the West has in its reaction and attitude to Islam. Dont these guys realise that in assisting and condoning the Islamic Con Job that is the Palestine 'so called' occupation they are only paving the way for their own destruction. I am sure the huge number of gays who populate the clergy will be delighted at the treatment they will receive from the gay hating Muslims. The Australians on the other hand know just how to talk to Mulsims.
This is how Muslims need to be talked to
The Howard Government's multicultural spokesman, Andrew Robb, yesterday told an audience of 100 imams who address Australia's mosques that these were tough times requiring great personal resolve.
Mr Robb also called on them to shun a victim mentality that branded any criticism as discrimination.
"We live in a world of terrorism where evil acts are being regularly perpetrated in the name of your faith," Mr Robb said at the Sydney conference.
"And because it is your faith that is being invoked as justification for these evil acts, it is your problem.
"You can't wish it away, or ignore it, just because it has been caused by others.
"Instead, speak up and condemn terrorism, defend your role in the way of life that we all share here in Australia."
Mr Robb said unless Muslims took responsibility for their destiny and tackled the causes of terrorism, Australia would become divided.
Mr Robb, the parliamentary secretary for immigration and multicultural affairs, said it was important for migrants to learn English.
"I see as critical the need for imams to have effective English language skills -- it is a self-evident truth that a shared language is one of the foundations of national cohesion," he said.
The disgusting misuse of the word 'apartheid' is part of an ongoing and concerted effort to delegitimize Israel. Not quite as disgusting as the similarly frequent comparisons with Nazi Germany, but all part of the same propaganda war.
From Article: “Churches have woken up to the issues in the Middle East like never been before. Another time we woke up is when we fought apartheid in Africa.
Almost sound's like a declaration of war against Israel. Did they 'really', 'fight' aparthide or did they just 'talk' a lot about it?
Jay stated the history of the area, which is acknowledged history by the sane. Has anyone shown this to the WCC? If they know about it, what is their defense? Or maybe Allah is talking to them, and they dont need a defense. Dont you think that having this conference in Jordan, is just a little too coincidental??
"More than 130 Church leaders representing 550 million Christians worldwide"
from the article above.
--------------------------------------
These figures are extremely inflated. The World Council of Churches claims to represent all Protestants but the majority of Protestants clearly have nothing to do with the far-left WCC.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union and the liberation of the Russian and Eastern European Orthodox from the Communist yoke, the Orthodox withdrew from the WCC, correctly denouncing it as a creation of the old Soviet KGB/NKVD. The Roman Catholic Church never joined the WCC.
As for the Protestants, I am assured that traditionalist Lutherans, Anglicans, and Reformed Churches want no part of this Leftist Lobby. Nor do the world's various Evangelical denominations. This means that the WCC represents only the rapidly dying liberal mainstream churches and the Protestant State Churches of the UK, Netherlands, and Scandinavia. Churches whose pews are empty on any Sunday morning.
No wonder the churches are empty....
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/06/24/a-call-for-preferential-citizenship-for-andalusian-muslims-expelled-from-spain/
There are so many comments that could be made on this topic. Already it has been mentioned that the RCC is not a member of the WCC. In fact the WCC refuses to have the Catholic Church as a member (talk about apartheid!)
Another point that has been raised is that the WCC has become significantly irrelevant, especially amongst the mainstream churches, who do in fact stand by what is taught in Scripture most of the time. The WCC does not represent a majority of Christians, especially when the RCC is a larger organization.
Yet another point is the historical aspects and once again we see how people who have a position of trust in the Christian community let everyone down because they lack the expertise to evaluate what they have been told by "Palestinians". The lack of historical research by the organization is appalling.
Palestinians won't even exercise the restraint not to kill each other, let alone stay restrained against the Israelis.
If they're 'Church leaders', then I suggest those 550 million Christians they represent, do something about removing them and getting a new batch of leaders who are not ignorant/imbeciles.
Islamochristians --- Naim Ateek of Sabil, and a handful of "Palestinian" Arabs who, in this country, have carefully worked their way up in various church bureacuracies, and the inimitable Hanan Ashrawi, who appears not to notice what has been happening to Christians in Bethlehem, and elsewhee in the "West Bank" and of course Gaza, and others have done their stuff.
But they had help. They had help from assorted antisemites, of the smiling Jimmy-Carter holier-than-thou variety, and then there are those who simply known nothing of the Lesser Jihad against Israel, nothing of the history of the Middle East or of its many non-Muslim and non-Arab minorities, and who seem remarkably unaffected or unaware not only of the assymetry of the two sides in that particular Lesser Jihad against Israel, in which the Muslim side possesses 500 times the land area, and at least 100 times the populuation, and in natural resources, while Israel has virtualy none (a little potash from the Dead Sea is about it), the Muslim Arabs, not even counting other, non-Arab Muslims, have received ten trillion dollars from oil revenues and are prepared to receive another ten or twenty or thirty in the future.
History is ignored. The facts are ignored. The truth is ignored, and at a certain point, the refusal to inquire into that truth bespeaks a viciousness that goes beyond any innocence, and can only be explained as old-fashioned antisemitms, made palatable, socially acceptable, by its seeming to be against a state when it is in fact against not a state but the particular tribe, or people, whose state that it; a moment's thought makes clear that were Jews not involved, the level of interest in the so-called "Palestinians," so sweetly and innnocently and meretriciously described as merely an interest in seeing that "justice is done" and "peace is achieved" when in fact the justice is that of pushing Israel back, forcing it to make further suicidal concessions, and ignoring the legal, historic and moral claims that were recognized by the League of Nations and its Mandate for Palestine, claims that have only been strengthened by Israel's repulsion of the war made upon it, by every means, by the circumambient Arab states and that even had those legal, historic and moral claims not been sufficient, repelling an agressor would have been so -- as would the precedent of the border changes that have occured, after wars, from the beginning of time.
Do you think the borders of Czechoslovakia and Poland were wrongly enlarged at the expense of Germany after World War II? What about the transfer, from Austria, of the Sudtirol, to Italy, after World War I, only because Italy was on the winning side and Austria had for so long dominated northern Italy? Does it matter that 97% of the population of the Sudtirol (now the Alto Adige) consisted of ethnic Austrians, or Germans, who spoke German? And what of a hundred or five hundred similar examples of similar changes that might be cited, just in the last two centuries of warfare? Is there to be one rule for Israel, and another rule for every other conflict, and every other successful defender against aggression? Ors should the same rules apply universally?
The nonsense about the "Palestinian people" and their so-called "nationalist" struggle has come to an end. Anyone of sense can see that the war on Israel remains exactly what it always was, was long before 1967, before the "Palestinian people" were invented and before there was a single Israeli soldier in the "West Bank" or Gaza.
The Muslim Arabs will never accept willingly the idea of an Infidel nation-state on land that was formerly possessed by Muslims, and they certainly will not accept it in the middle of Dar al-Islam. But they can be made to accept it, without any meaningless treaties, or that "peace process" that so many have spent their careers vainly promoting and still, therefore, have to believe in (otherwise what can Aaron Miller, or Richard Hass, or Dennis Ross, do to explain themselves, when they missed the point, they missed Islam, they missed the treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya, they wasted time, and meanwhile, years were lost when Islam should have been the object of intelligent, un-esposito'ed, study).
But that does not mean that the "peace" that comes from a sitatuion where Israel is not weakened but made stronger, and obviously so, in order that Arab leaders may resist the call to go to war by invoking, and forever, the fact of necessity, of Darura -- and that will have to do, for any further concessions by Israel will not only sate rather than whet Arab appetites, but swell the sense of Muslim triumphalism that will have consequences far beyond Israel and the Middle East.
These idiots don't even deserve to be recognized except for their gross exaggerations and outright stupidity. They don't represent 5000 Christians, much less 550 million! What utter fools these people are, playing right into the treacherous hands of their mortal enemies and they think they're "building bridges" and making friends. How pathetic!
Hugh said:
"History is ignored. The facts are ignored. The truth is ignored, and at a certain point, the refusal to inquire into that truth bespeaks a viciousness that goes beyond any innocence, and can only be explained as old-fashioned antisemitms, made palatable, socially acceptable"
This is the vogue disease that not just the wacko bean curd Left embrace. Our national and world leaders refuse to see the truth.
Reality is, the Muslims our leaders are making nice with are laughing their asses off at our willing naivete. If we talk to them like they're just like us they'll become like us, right? We just need to give them a couple of carrots, right?Wrong. They'll take our aid money and bullets then cut our throats with our own knife. And it won't mean anything to them.
Click here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXbNLkNhy1M
History is ignored Hugh?
Was not history also ignored when the Sons of Judah, like so many other peoples throughout time who did not survive as a nation, or rather, a state... a political entity with territory and power and self governance, were handed over to them a ragged bit of land in the desert that had been since lost some many centuries ago? Or was this more an instance of history being fulfilled, a history not yet to happen, outlined in some holy scriptures, by what some may consider to be one of those legendary self-fulfilling prophecies.
It always rattles my nerves when people talk about there not being no such thing a Palestine. Not because I'm anti-Semitic (I'm not) or not because I wish to see Israel wiped off the map (I don't), but simply because other facts are ignored, other histories are ignored, double standards are set into motion and alternate realities are put into place. No you're right, there WASN'T a historical Palestine, but there IS, NOW, a present modern day Palestine. Palestine became an issue the moment it was "created". Just as Israel became an issue the moment IT was created, after a centuries long gap of a lack of existence of Israel. See, historically speaking, unlike Palestine, there was such a thing as an Israel or Judea. Over 2000 years ago!!!!!! There was also such a thing as a Mongolia that spanned Asia, or a Rome that spanned much of Europe, or a Greek or Persian nation/empire that once too owned vast expanses of territory. Unlike Palestine these things did exist. Ask Elias about the Great Assyrian Nation. Or what about the countless indigenous tribes of America or Australia. These things existed too. But Palestine did not exist. And Israel did not exist either, for many centuries. Then poof. Prophecy Fulfilled. Israel returns. Things have a funny way of working out sometimes, I must admit.
"There simply is no such thing."
Actually, dear Sir, there IS such a thing, because it is there now. It may have not been there before, and it likely will not be there in the future. But it is there in the only time that really matters, and that time is now.
Actually, if you read the latest Spengler article, you will find, quite surprisingly, that he agrees with you, that there is not such thing as Palestine, and that eventually, this will be the case, in some future-present time.
"Another time we woke up is when we fought apartheid in Africa."
...the churches did very little fighting, the churches did hold some protests...
"Probably the most forceful pressures, both internal and external, eroding the barriers of apartheid were economic. International sanctions severely affected the South African economy, raising the cost of necessities, cutting investment, even forcing many American corporations to disinvest, for example, or, under the Sullivan Rules, to employ without discrimination. In addition, the severe shortage of skilled labor led to lifting limits on African wages, and granting Africans the right to strike and organize unions. Unions, churches, and students organized protests throughout the 1970s and 80s. Moreover, political, economic, and military pressures were exerted by the independent countries of sub-Saharan Africa."
.....as usual....it was all about money.....when you control the money, you control the people...South Africa would still have apartheid if it controlled the money.....
Much has been written by far more scholarly people than the WCC's committee explaining that Israel's presence in the West Bank and Gaza is hardly an "illegal occupation", Eugene Rostow being one of them.
Israel's administration of the W.B. and Gaza were clearly the results of Arab rejectionism of a two-state solution: the partitioning of "mandatory" Palestine which resulted in a Jewish state on 22% of the land, Egypt taking control of Gaza and Jordan taking control of the W.B. and Jerusalem.
The UN resolution makes it clear that Israel has every right to continue to administer these territories until the "former owners" make them an offer that includes reasonable assurances that Israel's existence won't continue to be threatened.
I've avoided commenting on this site for weeks. But I must add a few corrections to Jay's usually excellent article.
Judea, Samaria and Gaza never belonged to Jordan and Egypt. They were illegally occupied in 1948. Jordan's claim on Judea and Samaria was only recognized by the United Kingdom and Pakistan. These regions have been, and remain, unallocated territories of the British Mandate. The previous sovereign was the Ottoman Empire, whose successor state is Turkey. Neither Turkey nor the United Kingdom claim these territories. Jordan and Egypt renounced their respective claims as well. Israel is the only legitimate claimant to Judea, Samaria and Gaza (although Israel's renunciation of Gaza puts the latter in question).
As to the Golan Heights, they were won from Syria in a defensive war. Indeed, they were part of the British Mandate immediately after World War 1, but were ceded, inexplicably, to the French Mandate of Syria.
In fact, before 1967, when Egypt controlled the Gaza strip, they were never considered occupiers of Palestinian land. The Jordanians were never considered occupiers of the West Bank.
On the contrary, the Gaza Strip was regarded as merely "under Egyptian adminstration" between 1948 and 1967, not as part of Egypt. That's because Egypt regarded it as part of Palestine, to be handed over to a Palestinian state as soon as one was established. In other words, Egypt was merely a temporary occupier of that territory. The West Bank was annexed by Jordan, but that annexation never received international recognition. Most of the world regarded it as part of Palestine under Jordanian administration (which is just another word for "occupation"), and whose status was still to be determined.
"Naim Ateek of Sabil, and a handful of "Palestinian" Arabs who, in this country, have carefully worked their way up in various church bureacuracies, and the inimitable Hanan Ashrawi"
mentioned by Hugh above.
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Ateek and Ashrawi are known ONLY in the West. They are completely ignored by the Palestinian Christian community. Ateek and Ashrawi are westernized Protestants, a group that makes up less than two percent of indigenous Christians in Palestine. The vast majority of Palestinian Christians are Melkites and Greek Orthodox but their leaders have almost no voice in the West.
The article is interesting as we have said that religious leaders need to get involved.
That does not mean that we will agree on everything, though. On the side of politics, I refer to Israel as Israel and the Palestinians as Palestine simply because the PA was legitimized by Israel and the world as an official authority. Romans 13: 1:-2 charges Christians to recognize appointed authorities. Some Christians have refused to do that concerning the PA. I do not address Israel as an occupier or claim that Palestine ever existed as a country. I see things as they are today without the in-exhaustive replay of what was what, who was where, and who did what.
Today's reality is that the PA is officially recognized. Israel, the United States, and the world in general agrees that Palestinians have the right to self rule. The success or failure of that process does not hinge on the past. It depends on what course of action they take now.
The commentary says, "..and dubbed the separation barrier built by Israel as "a grave breach of international law."
That's true, but most importantly it represents man's wisdom in dealing with a problem
over preference to the way of God- give life and receive it. It is much more than a humanitarian concern. It is about Israel's disobedience. This is my concern and the basis for everything I believe about the relationship between Israel and the PA. I see it as about people, and those people on both sides of the fence, figuratively and naturally, must follow the way of God through Jesus Christ. Anything else is like a band aid being applied to a serious wound that will not heal.
The commentary also says, "...If the Palestinians stopped killing Israeli civilians, there would be no need for this "apartheid."
This overbalanced statement places all blame on innocent Palestinians while defending
Israel'sdependency on man's wisdom and military might. If truth is served, Israel kills lots of innocent Palestinians as well. Neither side is justified. Soldiers even sometimes use innocent civilians as shields when they go into combat areas. This abuse is currently under investigation by Israel. The proper course of action would be to deal with the criminal elements and give life to the innocents. Israel cannot do that in their own strength, but they could with the help of God through Christ if they served him.
All the councils in the world, including Church councils, can argue politics and place
blame, but the remedy lies in preaching the gospel to both nations. A voice for peace does not have to proclaim the gospel, but Satan has succeeded in drawing Christian attention to worldly remedies through UN resolutions in place of the only real hope through Jesus Christ.
Dear Terry. Your naivety is astonishing. And I notice that there is an elephant in the room. You never once mention Islam, and the teachings of Islam, in connection with the Palestinians, of whom the great majority are Muslim.
Yes...preaching the gospel, were it to bring about a mass conversion of the Palestinian Arab Muslims to a NON-ANTISEMITIC form of Christianity, might bring about peace. It would bring peace, even if the JEWS did not convert at the same time! Go right ahead and preach to the Palestinian Muslims. I'll support you on that one. Until the Muslim Jihad of the 7th century AD, the Holy Land supported large populations of both Christians and Jews. It could do so again - so long as the new Christians were prepared to accept that the Jew-hating which marred Byzantine Christian rule in the Holy Land, the deliberate oppression and subordination and slandering of Jews and violent attacks upon them, the exclusion from Jerusalem, were NOT to be revived.
But right now I don't see such a spiritual revolution happening anytime soon. And until and unless the spiritual bondage of Islam over most Palestinians is broken, what Israel faces - right now - is nothing less than the real possibility of a second Shoah. Or have you not heard what Mr Ahmadinejad has been saying? Or Haniyeh, or Nasrallah? They mean every word. Would you have Israel pull down the fence, disarm, acknowledge the Palestinian 'right of return', surrender unconditionally to people who have sworn repeatedly to murder them all?
Please read the Hamas Charter - it's available on line, in English. Reflect upon the fact that a clear majority of Palestinians - those sweet, innocent, peaceful, poor Palestinians - voted Hamas into power. I urge you to remember that the Hamas Charter quotes, approvingly, from the fraudulent insanities of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion".
You might also considering reading the PLO's original charter, which was written in 1964, BEFORE 'the Occupation'. Jacques Ellul, sociologist and expert anatomist of propaganda, examined that charter - that supposedly 'secular' charter - and declared that it was "a perfect expression of the jihad" - of Total War declared against Israel, without quarter, without mercy, without end.
You might also care to reflect upon the 'Arab Revolt' of the 1930s in 'Palestine'. More Arabs died in Arab-on-Arab clan warfare than were killed either by the British or by the self-defensive actions of the Jewish communities.
Also recommended: read James Parkes, 'Whose Land?" on the dismal history of 'Palestine' under the boot of its jihad occupiers 700-1917; also Bat Ye'or 'The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam', and (to understand the behaviour of some Palestinian Christians and their continual protestations of devotion to, and solidarity with, their 'brother Muslims' over against the Evil Jews) 'The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude'.
The anti-Jewish propaganda with which the Muslim/ Arab media (including the Palestinian media - radio, print, TV) is currently saturated is worse than that of the Nazis. Some of it recycles Nazi themes. Some of it recycles certain ancient 'Christian' anti-semitic topoi. Some of it originates with Soviet anti-Jewish propaganda from the 1950s. And a lot of it erupts from the core texts and history of Islam itself, without benefit of anyone else's prompting or instruction. Itba-al-Yahood - Kill the Jews!! has been heard in the Arab world for centuries. Another ancient Arab slogan - "The Jews are our dogs!" (remember, dogs in Muslim thinking are Unclean, and are treated with cruelty and contempt). You write as a Christian, so I tell you: the Jews, right now, are facing a massive demonic assault at least as violent as in the 1930s, and it arises out of the spiritual strongholds of Islam, that Empire of Darkness. It horrifies me to see the WCC cursing the Jews of Israel and essentially consigning them to destruction, while doing NOTHING to criticise or challenge Islam.
Muslims hate the uppity Jews of Israel very much as the KKK hated 'uppity niggers'. Jews (Christians too!) living in Islamised societies were supposed to grovel and cringe before their Muslim overlords who had absolute and arbitrary power of life and death over them. The Zionist Jews in Israel broke the script, claimed the right of self-defence, the right to bear arms (both of which were absolutely forbidden to 'dhimmis'), and took back their conquered/ Islamised lands, and took control of their very own ancestral holy places - and Muslims hate them for it like poison, with a hatred that to me has a strong smell of the demonic.
It is not our business - we Christians of European descent, whose ancestors repeatedly slandered and murdered Jewish people! - to lecture the Jews and assist at assassinating them. Remember Balaam the prophet.
This quarrel is not about nationalism. It is about Islam, and Islam's teachings which are BOTH political AND religious, indistinguishably, and Islam's territorial claims, and its relentless, amoral drive to 'dominate, and not be dominated'. If you want to preach to the Jews of Israel you had best first consider whether they are still going to be there to be preached at, five years from now, if the WCC gets their wish.
Terry,
What will you say to Messiah when He returns and rules the greater Israel which will stretch from the Mediteranean to the Indian Oceans?. Will you go to His temple and tell Him that He is mistaken?