Two cheers for the Swiss.
From the Brunei Times:
Members of the right-wing Swiss People's Party, currently the largest party in the Swiss parliament, have launched a campaign to have the building of minarets banned.They claim the minaret is not necessary for worship, but is rather a symbol of Islamic law, and as such incompatible with Switzerland's legal system.
Signatures are now being collected to force a nationwide referendum on the issue which, under Switzerland's system of direct democracy, would be binding.
The move has shocked Switzerland's 350,000 Muslims, many of whom have been campaigning for decades for more recognition for their faith.
[...]
A recent opinion poll for one Swiss newspaper found that 43 per cent of those surveyed were in favour of a ban on minarets.
"We have our civil laws here," insisted Freysinger. "Banning minarets would send a clear signal that our European laws, our Swiss laws, have to be accepted. And if you want to live here, you must accept them. If you don't, then go back."
"I think Swiss Muslims will be angry and bitter over this," said Reinhard Schulze, professor of Islamic Studies at Berne University. "And we know that anger and bitterness among a community can lead to radicalisation, even to militancy."
Boy, you said it Reinhard. Resisting the spread of religious fascism is a sure way to get it mad at you. Much better to go with the flow.
The Swiss government is extremely nervous about the prospect of militancy among Swiss Muslims; three cabinet ministers have already spoken out against the campaign to ban minarets.There is also a growing fear that the debate will damage Switzerland's traditionally good relations with the Arab world.
And wouldn't that just ruin everything? I mean, how could Switzerland even exist if not for the Arabs?
HURRAH!!!
Imagine a leading politician in either the UK or the US saying something even remotely similar.
They'd be strung up from the nearest......erm........minaret.
Off topic:
Pompano threatened to take land for affordable housing, then approved mosque construction
Ummah News Links
I will e-mail my congressman to ban currentry contacts which are trader between america dollar and swiss currenys. End the America Red Cross mendership with the Internation Red Cross based in Swissland. No money tranfer from America Banks to Swiss Bank directly or indirectly. Ending of all Swiss Air flight over america airspace and no landing at america airports for any reason let then crash into the alantric ocean.
DefenderofIslam,
Yep, so Islamic of you.
For the Red Cross, Defender, go ahead. That would rather help.
DefenderofIslam wrote: ".....no landing at American airports for any reason, let them crash into the Atlantic Ocean."
In other words, because you feel insulted, you are now perfectly willing to MURDER people.
I see you've been reading your Koran.
The Swiss have also canned a proposal to build a huge mosque in Bern.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25728_Swiss_Capital_Rejects_Islamic_Cultural_Center
Edelweiss forever!
On the subject of minarets:
I think the Swiss politician is right.
Minarets are not only historically used to call worshipers to prayer but when in the same areas as dhimmis they are a form of "psychological warfare" meant to intimidate and let the dhimmis know who is superior .The higher the minaret the better.Muslims especially liked it when the minaret was higher than churches. This was and is the philosophy of the Ottomans/Turks for example.
In the age of radio, television and newspapers, there is no need for minarets in the West especially since they cannot call the worshipers to prayer with those megaphones they have strapped onto them. They are purely for show and psy-ops( psychological warfare ).
Well. To tell it the way it is, that initiative is wildly stupid.
Let's say it works quite well and minarets are forbidden in Switzerland with a comfortable majority. It sure is great but so what? What is important for the future is in the mosques, not above them.
Let’s say it works but only with a thin majority, say 52/48. Islamists will claim that almost half of Switzerland WANTS minarets. And they will build mosques like crazy.
Let’s say it doesn’t work and we won’t have a chance anymore to stop such a project anywhere in the country.
The only really good aspect of that project is to foster the debate. But it was wrong to make that gamble. We could have had a much better debate with other questions, less polarizing, less dangerous for the outcome, more encouraging for people to argue.
It's a pain in the neck. But then, now it’s done. We have to live with it, make it work. We just have to make it a great success. So, all in all, maybe it's going to turn out fine.
In Berlin they built minarets 7 meters higher than permitted by the building authorities.
The utterly corrupt and degenerated wankers from the red-green coalition government didn't force them to reduce these 'rocket-launchers' (Turkeys PM Erdogan) to the permitted height, but instead agreed with the Muhammedans that a fine of some 50.000.00 Euro's would be enough to put everyone at ease.
Small change for jihad, Arab imperialism, a bridgehead into Europe and a permanent eyesore and noise-pollution...
Ah, almost forgot to put this up:
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/05/28/switzerland-accept-swiss-laws-or-piss-off/
These Muslims want minarets so they can be higher up than anyone else. Or at least try to. Their ugly Dome of Rock is very high over Jerusalem and hard to avoid seeing. Similarly the Muslims go nuts over the West Bank Jews settling barren hillsides because they then look down on the so called Ummah. Traditionally valleys are settled in the West Bank because that's where the water is. But hilltop Jews sink deep wells
The Swiss don't belong to the EU. They aren't dhimmis to the EU elite nor the Muhammadans. If Switzerland was in the EU the EU would be hounding them about these minarets
The Swiss rejected the EU. The EU mandarins would be complaining right now about denial of minarets. So good move Switzerland! Not playing dhimmi to Muhammadans nor EU.
Defenderofislam, learn to spell, it make you look like a stupid ignorant bigoted muslim. We wouldn't want that, would we?
Nice to have a bit of good news once in a while.
"Members of the right-wing Swiss People's Party"
-- from the article in the Brunei Times
"right-wing" party....yes, of course,the Homeric epithet, meant to form our opinions in advance, and meant, as well, to sour us on them.
Minarets have always been bristling signs of power, towering over the buildings of those conquered, and from which the muezzin's wail drowns out all other sounds. It is a symbol of dominance and everyone knows it: "the minarets are our missiles" is what Erdogan famously said. And Saddam Hussein embodied that figurative understanding in literal stone: shaping minarets to look like missiles, in his Mother of All Mosques, the big one -- is it still there? -- he was building, as his own religio-political ozymandias wizard-of-oz monument, in Baghdad.
Combined with the ex-muslim committee in Holland that is going to launch this August, this is going to be a hot summer for Europe.
"No money tranfer from America Banks to Swiss Bank directly or indirectly."
Right. That's a good one!
Anyways, It seems like what Switzerland is trying to do is pick a fight. Because what is the minaret, really? It's a symbolic piece of architecture. Banning symbols really doesn't change a thing. But hey, God willing, if the Swiss want to pick a fight, go on the offensive, that isn't so much a bad mentality to have.
"In Berlin they built minarets 7 meters higher than permitted by the building authorities."
That is what they do over here.
Now if the Swiss will only reveal the names of those secret account holders.
Good move. Use zoning laws, or architecure control laws, or whatever the Swiss equivalent is, to make sure that minerets are illegal as they make the landscape look ugly. (Of course, the same thing can be said of mosques, but that's a different issue).
DefenderofIslam
Get your ummah countries - Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt, et al, to do what you suggest. The US ain't part of the ummah, so we'd rather deal with the Swiss than the Saudis. You don't belong to the US, and the US doesn't belong to you - even if you do have citizenship.
Greg wrote: And wouldn't that just ruin everything? I mean, how could Switzerland even exist if not for the Arabs?
Defenderofislam wrote:
I will e-mail my congressman to ban currentry contacts which are trader between america dollar and swiss currenys. End the America Red Cross mendership with the Internation Red Cross based in Swissland. No money tranfer from America Banks to Swiss Bank directly or indirectly. Ending of all Swiss Air flight over america airspace and no landing at america airports for any reason let then crash into the alantric ocean.
Defender's rant perfectly proves Greg's point. Arabs, and Muslims in general, contribute absolutely, positively nothing to this world and I highly doubt that their version of the next world is accurate, either. All of the things this idiot poster wants to ban were created without a smidgen of assistance from the Arab/Muslim world.
well, you can't expect a muzlim to be anything other than the typical INTOLERANT ignoramus, can you?
oh, and defenderofislam - i'm DELIBERATELY misspelling your STUPID RELIGION. you gonna threaten me now? i am, after all, just a kafir woman who doesn't know her place...
The Initiative will not succeed (like so many others) but it will and does stimulate the public debate (like so many others did) and ultimatley further the clarification of the nature of Islam.
That is the aim of the initiative and in that it will succeed.
The discussion might even hrlp raise the question whether Islam is a religion the way the laws understand a religion. That is the real issue.
"Arabs, and Muslims in general, contribute absolutely, positively nothing to this world" -vvv
Hold on there venividivici, you've gone too far!
We wouldn't have suicide bombings in this world if not for the Arabs. So when you go spouting off about how the Arabs haven't contributed anything, you're just wrong.
Here is a site about Saddam's "Mother of all battles mosque" :
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/07/29/wirq29.xml
DefenderofIslam
...I can send you a box of Depends...They will do more for you than a Qur'an ever will...
alexon,
Ah, but they didn't even invent that!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bombing
You're right, though, I should have been more specific and said they contribute absolutely, positively nothing positive to this world or the next.
They are ridiculous, cretinous excuses for human beings and I wish them nothing but ill.
Defenderofislam:
Do you really think your congressman will go for your proposals? Has he recently been bitten by a rabid animal?
How can you bear to post such silliness, for all the world to see?
Take your lithium, please!
defenderofislam, here ya go
http://simplythebest.net/sounds/WAV/sound_effects_WAV/sound_effect_WAV_files/baby_cry.wav
Hooray for the Swiss, now don't cave.
Hey, it is a start....
Go Swiss! Now if this would only be enacted as a law. We still have to wait and see.
Face it. In addition to being intended threatening symbols of theological and political dominance in general, minarets are really giant phalluses, proclaiming Islamic sexual obsession and vicious misogyny. Mohammed just could just not stop thinking about sex and power.
One small step for sanity; one giant leap for human liberty.
Hang in there, Swiss!
And since then Muslims have to climb up the thing every morning before dawn and howl to the world that theirs is the biggest.
And here in Boston, on June 9th, dhimmis of religion and politics will gather to celebrate the completion of the minaret and the opening of the huge Trojan Horse mosque in Roxbury.
http://www.isboston.org/v3.1/viewitem.asp?MenuID=14&DocID=4898&ItemTypeID=3
So much for Swiss neutrality...
A.r.m.e.d neutrality.
Islam...
Minarets have been described as the "gate from heaven and earth",
Tower of Babel
"Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower with its top in the heavens, and let us make a name for ourselves.
..Same old, same old.......
This is exactly the right way for the West to beat back the forces of Jihad domestically. The U.S. and many other western nations cannot constitutionally discriminate against an affiliation between an individual and a religious belieft system. However, we do not have to put up with attempts to subvert the legal system.
Anything relating to Sharia is fair game. Lets take a couple of at bats . . .
Stendec wrote:
"Face it. In addition to being intended threatening symbols of theological and political dominance in general, minarets are really giant phalluses, proclaiming Islamic sexual obsession and vicious misogyny. Mohammed just could just not stop thinking about sex and power."
It's called compensation. Mohammed very likely was not able to sexually or emotionally satisfy the ladies (human adult ladies, that is), so he took out his frustration by...well, we have the results today. So much of Islam is related to sexual failure & sexual violence.
Mo, this song's for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia__1_DIKBE
I will e-mail my congressman to ban currentry contacts which are trader between america dollar and swiss currenys. End the America Red Cross mendership with the Internation Red Cross based in Swissland. No money tranfer from America Banks to Swiss Bank directly or indirectly. Ending of all Swiss Air flight over america airspace and no landing at america airports for any reason let then crash into the alantric ocean.
Posted by: DefenderofIslam
defecator of pigslam: I advise you L.E.A.V.E. the USA NOW.
A BIG HOORRAHH for Switzerland and her brave Citizens!!!
NO prayer rockets in the WEST!!!
let us build churches and Temples in SOWdi Pigrabia before we allow them to build these imperialistic eyesores in our lands.
islal is not a religion anyway. It's the biggest cult the world has ever seen and thus the most dangerous of them all. It's a pyramid scheme which will collapse on itself as soon as it runs out of exploitable dhimmis and victims.
So instead of being afraid that some mofoes in Switzerland might get violent and offended.. the time to let them know their cult is unwelcome is NOW!!!
What is this strange cowardice our our guvmints??!!
I say hand out the guns and ammo! Train citizen patrols... and there is nothing to be afraid of.
Puck Figslam!!!
Defenderofislam:
Do you really think your congressman will go for your proposals? Has he recently been bitten by a rabid animal?
Uhh... how about Keith Hakim Ellison..? Or Dick 'The Turban' Durbin? Or any number of collaborationist Congressmen... and Senators like Ted the 'yo soy un eemeeegrrrantay' Red..
And then there is Jorge al-bin Bush who throws the borders open wide...
Briars-
Any demonstrations scheduled? It would be wonderful to see some signs telling the truth about islam at the opening.
Briars:
I saw a picture of the ISB mosque recently...that minaret looks like a factory smokestack. Very evocative.
pvb:
The only demonstration planned are a brigade of dhimmis led by Jewish and Christian guilt ridden outfits that sided with their "brother' Islamists against the sanity of those who opposed the devious ways the mosque was financed, the Saudi connection and the Saudi inspired anti-American hate literature found in a nearby Cambridge mosque by none other than Muslim scholar Dr. Amhed Mansour who was also sued by the ISB for defamation.
There will also be swarms of poltico dhimmis like Mayor Menino praising the fact that The Religion of Peace has taken its place in the multi cultural landscape of Boston.
From Purplemarbles:
Minarets are not only historically used to call worshipers to prayer but when in the same areas as dhimmis they are a form of "psychological warfare" meant to intimidate and let the dhimmis know who is superior .
________________________________________________
Here in Boston, the dhimmis gladly join the carnival too stupid to know that the circus was created by the Islamists.
"Bring your prayer mats."
The proper protest would be a legion dressed all like Darth Vadar. Or could we get a contingent of Holy Cross Crusaders from nearby Worcester?
As the soldiers of Islam assemble in the bosom of America, they are enabled by those who stand the most to lose: Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, all of them victims of the Islamists in the past, all them suffering at the hands of the Islamists now throughout the world.
And the leaders of these religious Infidel establishments present a vacancy when compared to the spiritual leaders of the past. They march like zombies to their prescribed houses of worship oblivious to what threats and degradation people of their faith are suffering at the hands of the Islamists or what sacrifices their ancestors made to repel the onslaught of Islamic aggression in the past.
In the technological wonderland of America, the toys of distraction have created a pathetic void in political and spiritual leadership, a shadow of its proud past. It seems only the brave soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan have found the synchronicity to America's Idealism, an Idealism completely opposite to the tenants of Islam.
Here in America we welcome the enemy and revel in its victories. I pray that the Swiss have established the collective resolve to defend its culture and also to defeat the Islamist onslaught to come.
"No money tranfer from America Banks to Swiss Banks directly or indirectly."
Could very well turn out to be Dean of finance at a major U.S. taxpayer funded institution of "higher" learning. Wonderful example of the blind irrationality which seems to overwhelm many of this faith by the droves. The Swiss have sported bleeding hearts for Muslims for some time, yet any show of non-capitulation on their part is grounds for denying airspace to a nation's flights? Stick a pacifier in that mouth!
The Muslim invent the crankshaft to convert up and down movement into rotarly movement in the 10th century they invent the windmill in the 6th century
to power machinely in the Arab desert as they have no river and which the Dutch stole and took credit for. They where the first one way before the French Chemist to explain that illness is cause by than unknow invisal agent which the human eyes cannot see. Better know as the germ theory from the French Chemist many people consider him a medical doctor now but the doctor of his time call him a quark for saying they must clean they tool in strong soap and alchol under hot water before they operate and wear clean clothes and watch they hands before torching a patient. The Muslim doctor was doing that for 1300 years by them.
'...they must clean they tool and watch they hands before torching a patient.'
Oh, DefenderofIslam, sex & violence, all in one sentence! (You naughty boy.)
Gee...isn't that a "Western" thing?
And if nothing else, you DO provide one with a belly full of laughs.