In "Our Terrorists Are Better Than Your Terrorists," at NRO, the always perceptive Andrew C. McCarthy blisters the Bush Administration's foolish policy toward Fatah:
President Bush’s stirring post-9/11 message that regimes the world over have to choose between aligning with civilization or with terrorists should officially be interred in war-torn “Palestine.” Seriousness about the doctrine is the only realistic way to defeat our enemies, and now we make a mockery of it. A mockery built on the trifecta-fiction that Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is an avatar of peace, that his Fatah faction has aligned with civilization, and that the Palestinian people — the ones who freely chose to install Hamas as their parliamentary majority and who have trademarked “Intifada” as an instrument of statecraft — are somehow worth prostituting ourselves over.In the Palestinian civil war, the Bush administration has unabashedly cast its lot with Fatah. The United States, in the midst of its own global war against Islamic radicalism, is promising additional millions in foreign aid for a cabal which maintains its own jihadist wing, and which is so thoroughly corrupt — having pocketed much of the foreign aid billions that poured in over the last two decades — that Palestinians opted for the more transparent Hamas terrorists when given the option.
Fatah is the creation of the late terror master, Yasser Arafat. It is currently led by Abbas, formerly Arafat’s close aid. When last we left Abbas, the administration’s favorite “moderate,” he was laying a wreath at The Great Man’s grave — the Palestinians, by the way, have turned the site into an Arafat shrine, telling us everything we need to know about them.
Abbas proceeded to urge a throng of 50,000 Palestinians to re-aim their guns at the “occupation” (that would be Israel) instead of turning them on each other: “[W]ith the will and determination of its sons, Fatah has and will continue,” he brayed. “We will not give up our principles and we have said that rifles should be directed against the occupation.... We have a legitimate right to direct our guns against Israeli occupation....”
That was less than six months ago — despite administration assertions on Monday that Abbas is “a partner who is committed to peace.” And none of it was a surprise. When Abbas was seeking election in 2005, he declared to a cheering mob in Gaza that Palestinian terrorists being sought by Israel were “heroes fighting for freedom.”
Read it all.
Robert:
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The irony, of course, is that the more the Bush administration promotes Abbas, the more likely Fatahland will become an extension of Hamastan. Everytime Bush or Olmert praise Abbas, it's like a rallying cry for Hamas.
Have those British bookies laid out the odds yet for Abbas's survival (I mean political survival)?
Winston Churchill defended his alliance with Joseph Stalin with "I would have made a pact with the devil to defeat Hitler."
I think we should look at this in that light. If making a deal with Abass results in the defeat of Hamas, great. If Abass and the PA prove to be the snakes many believe they are, they can be dealt with later. And we shouldn't be to quick to discount the possibility that Abass is as fed up as we are with the perpetual conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, and genuinely wants some kind of settlement.
There's nothing to be gained by not making this effort, but possibly a great deal to be lost.
I say give it a try. If things don't pan out, we'll be the wiser for it.
So, the comment that Bush made "your either with us or against us"......was bulls**t.
I don't see to many things that most of the conservative Americans are against that Bush is accepting with open arms.
The GOP took a slap last November from their constituents and denied it occurred.
The GOP is going to take another slap in the next elections and alot of politicians will lose their jobs.
The GOP is handing America to the left because they are not doing the job they were hired to do.
The Conservative Americans need to let the GOP and Bush know one thing......'hey Washington DC...you are either with us or against us'.
Rational says:
"And we shouldn't be to quick to discount the possibility that Abass is as fed up as we are with the perpetual conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, and genuinely wants some kind of settlement."
Then let him say so. See if Fatah members continue to support him or jettison him.
While possible, highly unlikely and not worth the gamble of more U.S. aid.
I can ad nothing but a hearty "here here!" to Mr. McCarthy's article. He has summed up the cowardice of this administration better than I have seen before.
"Then let him say so. See if Fatah members continue to support him or jettison him."
While possible, highly unlikely and not worth the gamble of more U.S. aid.
Leave Iraq Now,
Good question. We really don't know what Fatah members might do to Abass. They might just kill him, but, then again, they might just support him. How will we know until it happens?
All Israel should aim for is Abass's signature on a peace treaty that recognizes the soveriengty and borders of Israel and a Palestinian state. And Israel should insist that any treaty be presented to both peoples in a referendum, and be approved by majorities in both countries.
If there's even a slight chance of a settlement between Israles and Palestinians, It's worth any money spent trying to achieve it. If it flops it flops, but someones got to try something. It's that or perpetual conflict, and time is not on Israel's side.
Nothing will change until the west grasps that Muslims themselves only respect strength and despise weakness. Of course that goes against our Christian upbringing and that's why we continue to think that we can win hearts and minds among Muslims with compassion.
The opposite is the case. Their hearts and minds are with the victorious - that's what Allah tells them. Their ethics in terms of which they order their hearts and minds - are nothing like what westerners, raised in the Christian faith, understand by the term "hearts and minds".
Islam does not teach the same sort of compassion for the other that virtually every other religion including today's "secular humanism" teaches. Muslims murder and torture eachother without compunction and their own ummah, "brotherhood" has no condemnation to offer. That's because they don't value INDIVIDUAL human life the way we Christian westerners do. It's not a concept in Islam - which means it's not a concept in Muslims "hearts and minds". Their hearts and minds instead understand what Allah teaches them in the Koran - namely, the Collective Will to Power.
When will our leaders understand this? And moreover understand that it is necessary in the end to be "cruel to be kind", to treat Muslims in the way they themselves understand moral principles? Which ultimately means that they must be beaten back and vanquished and humiliated by a greater strength?
That is clearly what they understand. Every move to win their hearts and minds that strengthens them, merely emboldens them to advance their own peculiar ethics of the world, which couldn't give a damn about "hearts and minds", as we understand the term. They will accept the shehada from anyone they can swindle and connive to recite it while at the same time are willing to kill anyone who leaves Islam. Whatever it takes to build the army of Islamic soldiers is what their ethics is about.
But how is it being kind to people to pander to their immaturity and self-deception and base impulses towards power?
Certainly no mature human being would suggest that one should pander to the primitive intellectual, emotional and moral sensibilities of a two-year old? A 2-year old understands the will to power through aggression only. But by the same token a 2-year old also thoroughly understands limitations that he simply has no power to trangress. That's ultimately what a 2-year old understands.
And that's basically what we're dealing with here - 2-year olds - from an intellectual perspective, from a moral perspective, and mostly from a behavioral perspective -except it happens to be 2 year olds armed with AK-47's (weapons they could never have invented for themselves, being 2-year olds, but the fact is that now they've got their hands on them!).
There is no way of avoiding the reality that the adults in this world are going to have to act like adults and step up and slap - in a big big way - Muslims who have made of their own societies the equivalent of "Lord of the Flies" and who now threaten to overrun every more advanced society with their mayhem.
"It's cruel to be kind" is going to have to be the anthem of the future relations between the West and Islam. We're going to have to come to terms with that fact. Either that - or it's simply going to be cruel for all of us, with no kindness in sight, and possibly no one left to come and rescue us off an Island from hell that in our passivity and cowardice we allowed to be taken over by moral and intellectual pygmies with very, very big guns.
I say give it a try. If things don't pan out, we'll be the wiser for it.
Posted by: rational
We've been making deals with Arafart/Fatah for decades and things haven't "panned out".
So we SHOULD "be the wiser for it" already.
Sorry to disagree, but "just doing some thinking".
Someone needs to tell these clowns in the executive branch of the US government that the US government through its own statements is NOT supposed to be dealing with terrorists for ANY reason. And that they shold put a stop to it NOW.
FATAH is a terrorism organization set up in 1959 by the 'godfather' of 'modern' Islamist terrorism, Yasser Arafat. The American government's dealing with it (for whatever lame excuses it can come up with) sets a rotten moral example to set for the rest of the world (let us remember the United States holds itself to be the leader of the free world).
And these elected US officials continue to negotiate with such KNOWN terrorism entities as FATAH.
And they continue to bring perdition on America by so doing.
God help us!
And deliver us from Islam!
If they would secretly support Fatah against Hamas until the time came when we could openly destroy Fatah, that might makes some sense.
But to support a terror organization openly is squalid insanity.
It destroys any moral basis for your actions.
And lowers us to being a tool of terror.
Trying to pit one crocodile against the other, while forgetting that, once the Fatah reptile has finished the local meal, Israel, and then we are next on its global jihadist menu.
"We've been making deals with Arafart/Fatah for decades and things haven't "panned out".
So we SHOULD "be the wiser for it" already.
Sorry to disagree, but "just doing some thinking".
Allahfanculo,
I understand perfectly the reluctance of many people to trust Abass and his Fatah organization. Past dealings with the PA has left a bad taste in everyone's mouth, but because we've failed so many times in the past doesn't mean we should stop trying.
Consider the alternative, never ending conflict, the acceptance that there never can, or ever will be, a solution.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "time is not on Israel's side, It's on the side of the islamic world.
The day is comming when some nuclear armed Islamic state will slip a few bombs to a terrorist organization like Hezbollah or Hamas, and that will be the end of Israel and its six million people. And it's a pipe dream to think that Israel would survive to respond. It won't, and even if it did, it couldn't possibly wipe out the entire Muslim world. They would survive, Israel would be gone.
That's why I believe that Israel should never miss a chance to come to some kind of agreement with the Palestinians. If the Palestinians say they're satisfied with an Agreement, maybe -- just maybe -- the Rest of the Islamic world will go along with it.
Personally, I'm not at all trusting of the Palestinians or their allies in the Islamic world, but when I consider the alternative, I say hold your nose and at least pretend they're being sincere. Who knows for sure, maybe they are capable of sincerity.
Let's at least support the effort.
"There is no way of avoiding the reality that the adults in this world are going to have to act like adults and step up and slap - in a big big way - Muslims who have made of their own societies the equivalent of "Lord of the Flies" and who now threaten to overrun every more advanced society with their mayhem. "
Well stated, Caroline.
We should make sure that every act of aggression and every infantile tantrum from the Islamic world results in an obvious and tangible loss to their hoped for empire--permanent loss of territory, economic privileges, foreign aid, immigration and travel privileges, oil wells, expensive military equipment, military bases, access to western technology, etc.
Islamic theological doctrine tells Muslims that Allah will back them to insure victory over the kafirs, and will supply (surviving) Muslim holy warriors with endless bounty and loot from the conquered infidels as their rightful prize for service in Allah's army. The Muslims need to learn that piously following these lunatic ravings of the pirate Mohammed and his sock puppet Allah will produce the exact opposite result--every single time!
Also, in every public and private forum, we need to rub it in their noses--so that they finally, someday, understand that the fascist Mohammedan doctrines are not only contemptible, but useless, and are the direct cause of their worldly impotence and misery. Only then will the death cult called Islam pass into the dustbin of history, where it belongs.
Stendec - If only what you suggest had been followed, then every time the "Palestinians" had fired rockets into Israel or set off a suicide bomb, Israel's immediate response should have been to permanently seize more Pali territory. "Land for Peace" indeed, only not in the usual sense of the term. Rather, the Israeli's should have done the opposite and progressively seized parcels of land away from the "Palestinians" in response to every one of their acts of violent aggression. Who knows? Maybe the Pali's would have actually had a state by now if that sort of policy had been implemented from the get-go? As harsh as it might have seemed at the time, in the end it probably would have been kinder. Guess it's too late for Gaza but not too late to apply such a principle to the West Bank.
The nation that professes to believe in equality and the universal goodness of moms and dads has formed a partnership with, and its sending its Citizens' tax dollars to, an organization that openly calls for the destruction of 6 million people in the short term and us all in the long run. An organization that follows a creed that teaches:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them.
So much for the moral high ground. ‘You are either with us or with the terrorists’ has morphed into ‘you are either a bad terrorist organization and we give you $40 million for food, or you are a good terrorist organization and we give you $86 million for food and weaponry’.
And the US ends up borrowing money from China and vanishing social security surpluses to feed and arm violent people who would like to kill our Infidel families. Someone tell me that this is sustainable.
Consider the alternative, never ending conflict, the acceptance that there never can, or ever will be, a solution.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "time is not on Israel's side, It's on the side of the islamic world.
@rational..
Your are indeed being TOO.. well.. rational..
"Consider the alternative, never ending conflict, the acceptance that there never can, or ever will be, a solution.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, "time is not on Israel's side, It's on the side of the islamic world."
I still say you are wrong. Not in your heart, for we all want peace.
You are wrong in the idea that if we "just do a LITTle BIT MORE and make Israel CONCEDE jsut this and that LITTLE BIT MORE.. then MAYBE - JUST MAYBE - there will FINALLY be PEACE.
My friend, it simply won't happen.
Look at all the territories my country, Germanyt gave up - involuntarily after WW1 - and voluntarily after WW2 - so we FINALLY could have peace!!
That's a much bigger chunk than the Golan Heights, or East Jerusalem, for example!
Yet no matter WHAT Israel has been willing to give back of her JUST "SPOILS OF WAR" after she was unjustly attacked - it was never enough to sate her foes.
Do you have ANY idea WHY??!!
They do NOT want peace.
They want Israel GONE and DEAD.
They make "peace" for strategy reasons and for nothing but.
They won't rest until either Isreal is obliterated [which won't happen] OR until they meet with their final armageddon.
Sad but this is how I see this. They "immigrate" to our lands in hopes of influencing Western politics for their goal is a "Holy Land" free from Jews and Christians.
Then they will launch their "final conquest" [the Endsieg, if you will] against the Rest of Us - as dictated by their UNholy KKKoran.
We may as well make our stand NOW and stand beside Israel.
Somehow I doubt that the "Jooz" will once again allow themselves to be led to the slaughter without resistance. And I commend them for their WILL!
They have made way too many pacts with the devil - including Germany/Europe and we have no right to ever ask them to make this massive mistake ever again.
In fact, Jewish steadfastness in the Middle East may well provide the focus point/rallying cry of the entire Civilisation on Earth willing to reamin free of the islamic tyranny.
Bush's first big mistake in the War on Terror was to support Palestinian Statehood in June 2002. Gotta give Bush credit for one thing, he's no flip-flopper. When he makes a mistake, he sticks to it no matter what.
"They won't rest until either Isreal is obliterated [which won't happen] OR until they meet with their final armageddon."
Allahfanculo,
I agree with your sentiments about Islam and its tyranical agenda for Israel and the rest of the world, but I don't agree that Israel can't be obliterated, and the longer this standoff continues, the greater the possibility it will happen.
What would it take to wipe Israel and its population off the face of the earth? two, three, nuclear bombs? And even if Israel were able to respond with its own weapons and kill millions of Muslims, they would still survive and be the winners. They would be the winners because they would be the survivors. Israel and its people would be gone.
It won't kill Israel to negotiate, but it could very well kill them not to. Time is not their friend.
rational:
I do not know where you got the impression that negotiating with Muslims can produce positive results but sad to say that is NOT the case. You see...
The so-called 'prophet' Muhammad establshed treaties with the Qaraysh and other Arab tribes-- before he abrogated these treaties and exterminated the members of these tribes to a man. I believe this episode is in the Kuran and referred to as 'hudaibiya'.
Muhammad's slaughter of the Arab non-Muslim tribespeople is held up by the Kuran as a supreme example of how war should be conducted against the 'unbelievers' by Muslims (at least with regards to any agreements Muslms may enter into with the infidels).
Throughout history Muslims have conducted their policies concerning treaties with unbelievers exactly the way Muhammad did and exactly as the Kuran teaches: the Muslims signed treaties with 'infidel' societies they were in conflict with, abrogated all such treaties at a strategic point, and attacked the unbelievers taking full advantage of the unbelievers' surprise that they were being deceived by the Muslims(which is what you get for believing anything a Muslim says to you if you're not a Muslim).
Over the centuries, probably millions of non-Muslims have been slaughtered by Muslim jihadists by uknowingly entering into agreements with Muslims, unaware that the Muslims were entering into the agreement in bad faith and in fact had plans to attack them later after abrogating the same agreement.
Is is therefore a VERY, very bad idea for Israel to trust the Palestinians ane enter into any agreements with them. Agreements with unbelieving Israelis will mean absolutely nothing to the Palestinians except a chance to reload their ammo and take aim at the Israelis!
Just 'fuhgedabboudit it!
pythagoras,
I'm very much aware of the muderous and dysfunctional nature of Islam. I'm also aware that Mohammad is the worst excuse for a Prophet possible.
I'm also aware that Israel will not be negotiating with Mohammad, but with the Palestinian leadership. It's true that those leaders are Muslims, but it does not necessarily follow that they cannot negotiate in good faith with the Israeles. If their self-interest is involved, they just might see peace with Israel as being in that self-interest.
The question you are raising is can any Muslim anywhere be trusted to be sincere and honest in negotiating with non-Muslims. I believe that is possible. I would advise the Israelis to be wary of the Palestinians, but not paranoid about them.
The proof of their good faith would be in the pudding. If they are faithful to the letter of any agreement, it could be that they are sincere. If they're not faithful, Israel would be more than justified in breaking off all further negotiations. It cannot hurt to take a stab at peace, and, if necessary, take mitiple stabs at it.
Remember that one of the greatest peace makers in the middle East was President Sadat of Egypt, a Muslim. He risked and lost his life because he recognized Israel's right to exist.
It is possible that there are other Sadats in the Muslim world. Let's hope there are.