Andrew G. Bostom discusses felonious Qur'an-flushing in FrontPage:
Twenty-three year old Stanislav Shmulevich awaits arraignment on hate crime charges for “criminal mischief and aggravated harassment,” accused of having hurled Korans into toilets at Pace University’s Manhattan campus, 10 months ago. This past October 13, according to police, a teacher discovered a paperback Koran in a second-floor bathroom toilet, while on November 21, a student found another submerged Koran in the same bathroom.[...]
Western discourse must move well beyond condemnation of clumsy acts of disapproval, such as Koran flushing, and their aggressive prosecution under pressure by Muslim avatars of real hatred, and abettors of murderous jihad terrorism, such as CAIR—to more fundamental and unnerving questions: What role do Koranic injunctions themselves—eternal and beyond criticism (least of all by non-Muslims)—play in inciting “criminal mischief and aggravated mischief”, and much more heinous crimes against humanity, including jihad genocide, and the destruction of non-Muslim religious, cultural, and political institutions?
Read it all.
The real issue is that a student shouldn't plug up a toilet in someone else's facility.
Albeit that many of us already believe that the koran is, if you'll excuse the word, already fundamentally, crap, we should recognize that nature requires a more conventional passage to its next stage in a cycle.
The wrong is in plugging up a useful accomodation, the toilet, with something that wont flush just yet.
Any prosecution beyond this, is just pandering to a vile and vicious ideology that is murderous and without any redeeming social value.
The best jihadi is a dead one.
The comming battle with islam creeps closer. And Americans are being enlisted to fight their own. What fools we have for our collage elite. Now upon leaving the restroom, will the pc police check behind you.
PACE thought police should consult the Mohammad Image archive for more complete coverage of the issue.
The interim president of Pace U is Steven Friedman, a JEWISH man!
It's easy to e-mail him directly from the Pace site and offer him a few remarks about the Koran in the Toilet!
I said "Great, because that's where the evil Koran deserves to be." I also inquired whether he knew that Jews are referred to as "apes and pigs" in the Koran, and that they are "accursed by God" and should be annihilated? Ditto Christians, such as myself. Although Christians aren't referred to as "apes and pigs" they are "misguided," and of course if all of us Infidels don't convert to Islam, then, as "Allah" commands them to, the Islamists have every right to kill us all.
I also inquired whether he knew that Mohammedans believe that Jesus, the "slave" of "Allah," would return one day to help "Allah" in destroying both Judaism and Christianity? I mentioned his murdered ancestors, the Jewish males of Medina, all beheaded by Warlord Mohammed the false prophet, and how the Jewish females were sold into slavery and concubinage. Uh huh - how does he like all of the aforementioned FACTS about Islam and Mohammed the Jew/Christian Hater?
Also, the usual there's no "Allah," a pre-Islamic pagan Moon deity.
So, of course I won't receive a response, but he will read. So, as many JW's as possible - send your informed and learned remarks to the Jewish interim president of Pace. Can a Jew be a dhimmi? I think so.
We are supposed to "respect" a belief system that contains the directive of our own spiritual and physical destruction? That's outlandish and outrageous. Answer: NO!
Bravo - Koran in the Toilet!
I wonder if burning a page from the Qu'ran would receive the same First Amendment protection, as an act of political speech, as burning the American flag would?
I think CAIR and the muslim student society should get a pat on the back!
When they speak, everybody jumps and wonder if it was high enough to please.
When American students or citizens for that matter speak, shout, vote, whatever -- nobody who should, listens,cares, acts on their behalf, or gives a damn.
We should be amazed that the thoughts, opinions, and accusations of CAIR and the MSS carry such weight, that they are able to trump the will, laws, and traditions of the entire nation.
Truly, amazing.
So, what organization is rushing to the aid of the student?
This is just some more 'softening up' America to Islam, by making any objection at all, no matter how big or small, into a propaganda event. Islamics cant sell Islam to Americans, as a desirable religion, so instead of selling it to us, they attack us with it.
It is now illegal in America to mind your own business...why would a teacher or student report this at all, and once reported, why is that a mountain is made out of a molehill? If I found a Quran or any other book or objects in a toilet, I would either remove it to the trash can or call the janitor to do it. (Poor janitors always get the dirty work that Americans wont do). What is the motivation for reporting it other than as vandalism or an accident. To make a federal case of it is someones idea of pompus superiority. It may be natural for muslims to propagandise such an event, but for kaffurs to go along with it, is self destructive behavior.
Seriously now, where else is a better place for it? If the freaks at the University would crack one open and read it - they would flush it too.
I like the idea someone suggested to move bookstore copies of the koran from the "religion" section to the "true crime" section.
And that's no a crime, is it?
A figure of Jesus Christ on the cross in bottle of urine was considered art.
A paper back copy of the Qu'ran in a place where people urine is considered a hate crime.
It sounds like it is time for Pace to be sued for separation of church and state. Aren't they de facto establishing Isalm as a state religion by following the dictates of Sharia?
If you think this is bad wait until someone places cartoons in the porcelain princess. Can you image the outrage when the funnies are found floating? I can hear it now, behead those who flush cartoons. Go ahead, try and explain that to us westerners, islamists.
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/jyllands-posten_cartoons/
However, don’t think that I am making any suggestions here you know that they feel that mocking them is worse than death itself. Or so they have been led to believe.
That's what I was thinking. The Quran is only holy to Muslims, so the rules regarding the proper handling of the Quran only apply to them. For infidels it's just a book.
This seems like an obvious case of enforcing Islamic law in the US.
I don't think a latrine in finished until a Quran is put in it.
The next charge that CAIR, and Muslim students will make is if you dare to carry a copy of the Qu'ran at the the bottom of a pile of your books or if you happen to place other books on a shelf above the Qu'ran,or put it on the floor, Or if someone finds out that you are menstruating while carrying or reading a Qu'ran. Many believe that only Muslims should read the Qu'ran because they are clean and pure "This is indeed a Holy Qur'an, in a book well-guarded, which none shall touch but those who are clean..." (56:77-79). The Arabic word translated here as "clean" is mutahiroon, a word that is also sometimes translated as "purified".
Therefore, most Muslims believe that only those who are physically clean through formal ablutions should touch the pages of the Qur'an.
As a result of this general understanding, the following "rules" are usually followed when handling the Qur'an:
1) One should make formal ablutions before handling the Qur'an or reading from its text.
2) One who is in need of a formal bath (after intercourse or menstrual bleeding) should not touch the Qur'an until after bathing.
3) A non-Muslim should not handle the sacred text, but may listen to tapes of the Qur'an or handle a translation or exegesis.
4) Those who are unable to handle the Qur'an based on these reasons should either avoid handling the Qur'an completely, or in necessity hold it while using some sort of barrier covering the hand, such as a cloth or a glove.
To further show respect for the sacred text, those who are writing it should use clear, elegant handwriting, and those who are reading from it should use clear, beautiful voices.
In summary, Muslims believe that the Holy Qur’an should be handled with the deepest respect. However, God is All-Merciful and we cannot be held responsible for what we do in ignorance or by mistake.
The Qur'an itself says: "Our Lord! Punish us not if we forget or fall into error" (2:286). Therefore, there is no sin in Islam on the person who mishandles the Qur'an by accident or without the realization of wrongdoing.
Well, I tried to get a manufacturer to print up a lot of toilet paper with the verse:
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
…printed on each sheet. Guess what, no takers.
It is creepy that Shmulevich didn’t even make Drudge.
Will this bring about the dreaded return of the KKK. Koranic Komode Komandos
The proper way to criticize the Qur'an and Islam is to read that long missive and be armed with the truth against the Muslims. dgene is right in that students should not be vandalizing school property. Nevertheless, it is an insult to our society and our Western values to add punishment upon punishment because a Qur'an was desecrated - and this done by a Jew no less! Andrew Bostom's article is spot on, as is just about everything he writes. Is there anywhere a more honest and thorough scholar of jihad than Dr. Bostom?
The Qur'an IS an offensive book. I've read it and it should shock the sensibilities of any civilized person. But, I reserve my more profound anger for the dhimmis of our civilization who spare no effort to bow and scrape before these bringers of death and destruction. How I despise them!
I do hope that Mr. Shmulevich will insist upon, and garner the resources for, a jury trial. Those who brought the 1985 Calcutta petition and the grand imam of al-azhar have already done much of the defense attorney's work. It would make for some fine press in good ol' NYC. (Might offer an opportunity to snooker the Duranty Times, too. I could see them giving this thing front page above-the-fold mention, being a viscious hate-crime and all, and then being forced to completely drop coverage as the details of the defense come out.)
Through the manufacture of sacred cows labeled ‘hate crimes,’ it now becomes lawful to protect certain individuals and subjects, ideologies and practices from the civil discussion and to inflict a higher penalty upon those who commit ‘thought crimes’ or the exercise of their First Amendment rights regarding certain individuals, subjects, ideologies and practices. Whereas, the courts have traditionally punished men for their deeds, their physical acts, their material transgressions, it is now justified by law to punish them for their thoughts, as well. Murder, rape, torture, robbery, assault are deemed more heinous, more actionable, more punishable, more objectionable because certain individuals, certain subjects, certain ideologies, certain practices have been attacked.
Inequality under the law is tyranny; the creation of sacred cows to encourage the protection (and proliferation) of certain belief systems, certain religions, certain ideologies, certain practices is the essence of tyranny. To punish the exercise of free speech on certain subjects, but allow or to encourage it on others is the essence of tyranny. To create protected classes of individuals based upon their ethnicity, religion, sexual persuasion or personal practices is the essence of tyranny. One man cannot be more protected under the law than another without creating a dual system of justice. Law exists for the sole purpose of protecting the rights of all individuals, not to protect the rights of some individuals more than others.
Now, in the case of Mr. Shmulevich, who is accused of high crimes against The Koran, it seems that the very texts within this book bear out the intent of the author and issuer (M or A?) to inflict maximum penalty and grievous injury against anyone who does what Mr. Shmulevich has just done. The Koran encourages hate crimes against its critics. When the courts sanction the hate speech espoused within the Koran, by adjudicating Mr. Shmulevich’s acts of vandalism as of greater consequence, the court will be sanctioning the hate speech contained within the Koran. Conversely, Mr. Shmulevich is to be divorced from his right to express his disdain for the tenets of the Koran wholly and unequivocally, because the courts must protect the Koran from scrutiny or criticism with sacred cow reverence.
While, Mr. Shmulevich deserves punishment for his vandalism against university property and plumbing, his crime should not be elevated within the legal system to merit greater gravity than The Bible, classic literature, The Weekly Standard, The Economist or a whole plethora of books and periodicals. If, Mr. Shmulevich had destroyed an ancient Koran which he did not own, then he would be accountable for the value and rarity of said object. Mr. Shmulevich’s right to flush his own Koran down his own toilet or to discuss his opinion of the Koran, or the acts of certain practitioners who follow Koranic instruction (including Islamists who coerce, intimidate, threaten, stalk or physically harm Islamic detractors), and Mr. Shmulevich’s free speech should be as protected under the law as the free speech of any other citizen within the realm.
Censuring the free speech of citizens who reject or question tenets of the Koran, a book which justifies violence against non-Muslims, is tyranny against the free thought and free speech of those who resist or criticize Islamic hate speech and practice. The sacred cow of Islam should not be allowed to trample free speech, free thought thereby establishing protected status for Islam, while abridging the rights and opinions of its critics within the civil discourse.
or the courts.
Hey you guys, what are you trying to do?
You want to knock Michael Vick and dog fighting off the lead story? Or maybe Lindsay Lohan and her drunken escapades?....must ignore real news....zzzzz.
In the spirit of accomodating Islam over all other religions, lets all donate money to purchase special Quarrel-On reading racks for the restrooms at our institutions of higher learning.
Our university restrooms must be specially fitted with every convenience for these practitioners to make their religious experience more spa-like. We'll just call our little fund "Spa-slam."
It seems to me that there are two issues here. One, vandalism of property (clogging a toilet on purpose) in a college campus is a crime (granted not a very serious crime for some minor vandalism). Add to that the other issue of taking the Koran from another room. (Were they available for taking for free, or did he steal one from the room?). All of that is one issue. Assuming that he is guilty of one or both of these “crimes” he should be punished, but certainly not more than if he clogged up a toilet with a chemistry book.
The second issue is the hate crime laws and their application to this case. Although not very popular with the majority of jihad watch community, there is I think a kernel of justice to these laws. Example 1: Teenage boys spray paint graffiti on your garage door. Example 2: Teenage boys spray paint: “Kill n*ggers KKK” on your garage door (and of course you are black). Both crimes are of course vandalism, but should the law treat the second one as a more serious crime? Hate crime law of course says yes. The devil is in the details—what qualifies as hate to bring your crime into the more serious penalties of hate crime laws. Does our bathroom Koran flusher qualify? I don’t think so, and I certainly agree with the numerous posters who argue that the Koran is full of hateful things itself. But he is no poster boy of courage—he took someone else’s book and defiled it on someone’s else’s property. Now if he wants to shred Korans in front of the Saudi Embassy, that is one thing. But it is fundamentally different what he has done.
This case should be used to overthrow the illegitimate and anti-1st Amendment concept of a "hatecrime".
The Koran, being nothing but a compendium of "hatecrimes" (and some irrelevant Biblical plagiarism), should be in the dock, not Stan S., who was simply reacting in righteous anger and non-violent and creative protest to the Koran's calls to violence against non-Muslims, and its litany of vicious and brutal insults to them.
The police and university over-reached and over-charged.
Now let's see their folly boomerang as the Koran is dragged into court and cross-examined.
Although not very popular with the majority of jihad watch community, there is I think a kernel of justice to these laws. Example 1: Teenage boys spray paint graffiti on your garage door. Example 2: Teenage boys spray paint: “Kill niggers KKK” on your garage door (and of course you are black). Both crimes are of course vandalism, but should the law treat the second one as a more serious crime? Hate crime law of course says yes
You don't need hate-crime laws to prosecute the second as a verbal assult as well as, criminal damage, criminal trespass, and vandalism.
Hate crimes legislation is nothing less that thought crime legislation; and in a free Republic, which is what the US is supposed to be anyway - NOT a democracy -- we should be free to think whatever we wish to think, no matter how odious our "thoughts" might be to others -- especially to those in power.
Teenage boys, implying that our kids are rotten? Someone else’s book, first you claim you don’t know who’s book it was shortly thereafter you are telling us he stole someone else’s book and you question his courage? So when groups come out and say conservatives want to drown black people (not groups of teenagers) is that a hate crime? If these teenage boys you speak of invite you for a price to hang out at their house and they make the restrooms public and you throw a copy of mien kampf in the toilet can they charge you with a hate crime? Islamists sneak into schools and murder children, they murder teachers in front of these children, they cut the throats of stewardesses, and nuns etc but for you the real test of courage is in front of the Saudi embassy? You are either an islamist or really stupid I am not yet sure which. Keep it up, you are selling them the knife they will use to chop your head off .
If I go to a ball game and I toss a program into the toilet is that a hate crime against ball players? How bout if I go to Disneyland and toss a statue of Mickey in the toilet, Is that anti Mickey hate and subject to hate crime legislation? How far do we go, what is protected and what is not? One mans religion is another mans preferred entertainment venue.
The court must take into account how the defendant 'feels' toward the material in question and what was his 'reasoning' for his actions (his mens rea).
I'm an American of Irish ancestry. How I 'feel' when someone calls me a "mick" is determined by the intent of the speaker. Are they being facetious or do they really hate me because of my heritage. If they smash U2 cds and flush them where I will notice, are they doing so to show their hatred of me, or are they just showing their dislike for U2's music? Could I press charges? Do I even care? How would I establish that their "U2phobia" was directed at the Irish in general?
Like it or not, Neo-Nazis have rights too. How would they feel if Mr. Shmulevich had flushed copies of Mein Kampf? Could they not demand the pressing of charges for hate crimes?
Are not hate crimes intended to protect people, not objects? Aren't they based upon inflicting fear in a person or group? Will the Muslims who observed the Koran in the john testify that they suffered apprehension and fear for their personal safety or lives. As 'esquared' pointed out in his example of the teenage KKK spray-painting, or in a swatzika painted on a Jew's garage, these acts can easily be interpreted to be a warning that further harm to life and property is imminent, thus forcing the receiver to live a watchful, vigilant existence always afraid and expecting harm. Mere offense does not warrant a hate crime. A good defense attorney will establish that Mr. Shmulevich was directing his protest at the anti-Semitic nature of the Koran and his 1st Amendment protection.
Not to point out the obvious, but Stanislav's defense should be easy: he was just protesting the hate that the Koran, in his mind, inspires.
If he is convicted of this charge it will just empower criminal groups like CAIR to further exploit our liberal laws. Once again, I know I'm just pointing out the obvious.
If I were him I would you the argument that to me the Koran is a book of hate. Just as many consider mein kamph a hate book. A hate book like the Koran deserves no respect specially a hate book that is responsible for causing millions of people to be killed, driven from their lands, enslaved, ethnically cleansed, or driven to a miserable life. A Koran deserves to be put in toilet and used as a door mats.
Pace is really reaching here, bordering on the absurd. It can be argued by all non-Muslims that the mere existence of Islam can be considered a hate crime, to us.
I agree with profitsbeard. I hope this goes far enough to have the Qur'an read alound in a court room and cross examined. It would be a perfect opportunity for Robert to showcase his abilities as an Islamic scholar, since you know CAIR will certainly be on the other side in some capacity.
I agree with profitsbeard. I hope this goes far enough to have the Qur'an read alound in a court room and cross examined
..and of course, a judge will decide which parts are admissable; and you can be sure that Sura 9 will not be admitted as evidence -- after all, it, will not be relevent.
Only those select few suras that could, with some imagination, be stretched to absurdity and that tend to show islam in some semblence of a positive light, would be admitted.
What needs to happen is a class action suit against pace, cair, and the muslim students association (say, who funds this group anyway?) for harassment.
Where are the attorneys????
I'd like to see someone, or a group, buy a full page ad in a high-circulation newspaper somewhere in the vicinity of Pace university.
The headline, in large, bold lettering, should read, "you judge."
List Sura after murderous sura from the Koran.
At the end, ask readers, "would you flush this trash down a toilet?"
Pace university, and the Muslim student union, can only get away with persecuting Stanislav Shmulevich for insulting the "Holy" Koran if the public believes that there's something "holy about the Koran. The best defense for Shmulevich is to expose the Koran for what it is.
Let Pace U, and outraged Muslim students, explain away, or defend, the listed Suras.
I'd gladly contribute to the cost of the Ad.
But he is no poster boy of courage—he took someone else’s book and defiled it on someone’s else’s property.
esquared,
What are you saying?
He took someone else's book? Did he steal someone's personal copy of the koran?
Defiled it on someone else's property?
Muslims have never been squeamish about defiling someone else's property. Why the double standard? It's a public facility.
The only real sin committed was that he deliberately did damage to the facility, not that he "defiled" the Koran.
Mackie,
Given the rule that
3) A non-Muslim should not handle the sacred text, but may listen to tapes of the Qur'an or handle a translation or exegesis.
What do Amazon or Barnes and Noble do? I doubt very much that their people wear gloves when handling the text or that only non-Muslims touch the pages. They don't limit their customer base to Muslims. Amazon offers a bilingual koran with full Arabic text. Does the translation mean it's not holy anymore? Anyone can handle the Koran in a bookstore. Some of the bigger stores must offer Arabic versions.
Must be an islamist, defiling a book. I once heard a guy accuse another guy of raping his blow up doll. He never got anywhere with the allegation as blow up dolls make terrible witnesses.
I'd gladly contribute to the cost of the Ad.
Posted by: rational
And so would I.
Wonderful idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tha ACLU better stand up for this guy7 in court. The people who kowtow to the Muslims need their asses kicked for agreeing to bring a suit against Shmulevich. He should get a pat on the back for having a set of balls. It is sickening the way Muslims get their way every time something happens. I say tell them to go to hell ( Any Arab Country).
People - e-mail the interim president of Pace, JEWISH Steven Friedman at: sfriedman@law.pace.edu.
NOW.
If it was an English version of the Koran then he has broken no religious rules since it is not really the Koran at all. At most he is being disrespectful towards or making fun of Islam which may be against Islamic law but is not against anybody else's. I'm reminded of the Germans ordering the French police to round up all the adult Jews in Paris - the French rounded up all the children as well, despite not having been asked to do so. The authorities seem to be enforcing Muslim intolerance above and beyond what is called for by the strict letter of Muslim law.
Studying the newspapers' accounts more, this looks as if it should be considered to be more a protest against hate than any kind of hate, itself.
It is thereby an really anti-hatecrime.
Nullifying the ridiculous charges.
Except attempted toilet clogging.
And $10-20 in book replacements.
To go down in our history as:
The Pace U. Koran Party?
PMK
My English Version Qu'ran was purchased at Barnes and Nobel and was not treated any different than any other book in the store. This particular English translated one by N.J. Dawood with parallel Arabic text was the recommended version by Robert Spencer.
The special treatment that is demanded by Muslims regarding just about everything from the special handling of the Qu'ran,prayer rooms, separate rooms for men and women,and on and on is a slow and calculated effort to bend Western Civilizations to their will and their needs above and beyond ours. This bending of our will is driven by the dangerous and perverted practices of multiculturalism. We our blinded by its use because we are slowly trading our foundations, and traditions for theirs without hardly a whisper.Everytime they make a demand we bend over farther and farther until eventually we forget who we are.
Only those select few suras that could, with some imagination, be stretched to absurdity and that tend to show islam in some semblence of a positive light, would be admitted.
Posted by: witness at July 30, 2007 2:12 PM
Even if the actual suras in the qur'an are presented as evidence of the evil of islam, the muslim attorneys will swear they don't mean what they say; that they are metaphorical and allegorical; that they are being taken out of context; and then they will compare the qur'an to the Old Testament to soldify their argument. The judge and jury will most likely be completely ignorant of the teachings of islam and will buy the scam.
A competent attorney, well versed in the doctrine of islam and the sermons of islamic clerics, might convince the open-minded that the qur'an is a terrorist manifesto, and a respected, non-muslim islamic scholar like Mr. Spencer would definitely be a good witness for the defense. About the only way to refute the lies muslims tell about what islam really teaches is to have taped sermons, in English, from all the mosques in America. That would definitely be some damning evidence but who would take the time to listen to them?