Bush signs executive order prohibiting "acts intended to denigrate the religion, religious practices, or religious objects of the individual"

Does Bush really believe that he will win the hearts and minds of the muslim world by this politically motivated act? Like Aerosmith once said: "dream on".

That is just asinine. The al-Qaeda playbook already has its POW's crying torture to any little thing. Now, with this executive order, Bush is giving detainees more legal weapons to use against, who? Bush! of course... Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

Cheers,

http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com

Did he sign our unconditional surrender too?
I just don't get it.

P.S.

Progressive2.0,

I was not referring to your comment when I said, "that is just asine." I was referring to the executive order.

Just didn't want you to get the wrong idea.

Cheers

I'm still waiting for some laws, some decisions, some executive orders, some policies that are gong to PROTECT AMERICANS instead of protecting everybody else or making others happy....

angryeagle, That is exactly what I was going to say. Why is our government so concerned with protecting the enemy?

"acts intended to denigrate the religion, religious practices, or religious objects of the individual"

Next he shall get congress to pass a law along with a new Shamisty bill, declare himself Imam of Washington, and go back to smoking cocaine and sniffing scotch.

Isn't there a provision in the constitution for declaring some one medically/mentally unfit for the Executive Branch?

But Rush, Sean, and Medved say he's A#1 and you just wait for the September Iraq report...you just wait, you'll see the war's going just swell you defeatocrats!

This stuff is aimed at the Democrats as much as at the jihadis.
Yup, we were going to go after 'em alright, until we found out that the use of excessive force was illegal and we switched to trying to win their hearts and minds, but then we found out they have neither.

I avoid defending the president these days, but as FNC noted, the idea of not revealing which specific interrogation techniques were now disallowed was deliberate: if that was to be made obvious, then Jihadis would get to practice to overcome such techniques once captured, thereby forcing the military to use techniques that they want to avoid.

For identical reasons, even if the military were to examine Jihadis for their theological inspirations and Islamic underpinnings, the administration would be stupid to openly state either whether such things are okay or not. On this one, I'm with them.

angryeagle, That is exactly what I was going to say. Why is our government so concerned with protecting the enemy?
Posted by: interestinconundrum

You all get the PRIZE. Who is the enemy? It is certain the the Shrub has not figured it out. Although I agree he maybe pandering the Dumbacrats. We ain't going to win the war until we know who we are fighting. BOTTOM LINE!

It IS pathetic...nothing like de-balling effectiveness...but yes, it IS also appeasing the socialist lobby & the CAIRbears.

There IS an advantage here though...it takes away the militant screed issue of the aiders-&-abettors-of-the-enemy lobby: "torture! tortue!"...with which they haven't a clue what REAL torture even IS...

One thing I DO know...if it's been signed, it's only because we've already made alternative preparations for effectiveness...one, of which, is simple, and has proven to work better than torture of any kind...

Threaten to send them back to their home country that wants them dead...
they throw up, piss & shit themselves in horror, start crying like a little girlie girl, and within 48 hours, start singing like the proverbial canary...because their home countries DO torture, right before they kill such scumbags in disgraceful and irreligious manner.

Next thing ya know, the wussy-wimps of the socilaist treason lobby will start screaming a new variant of the usual bloody-murder-conspiracy-secret-prisons BS they've always spewed to aid & abet the enemy in blatantly treasonous fashion...and get away with it under the protection of their fellow elected officials who refuse to prosecute "no matter what".

So there IS a silver lining to this, despite the efforts of the enemy within to thwart it.

..from a review of Brad Thor's new book..
..excerpt from book;
"We also need to open our eyes to the equally devastating threat of 'Legal' Islam being waged against us here at home, which like water against a stone, is using our legal system against us to chip away at our Constitution and rights as American citizens."...

"The problem, though, is that our nation is being eaten away from within -- much the way the Roman Empire was before its decline. One of Atkinson's questions that I like to pose is, 'Who are right? The people who believe a woman should have to cover herself with a head scarf or full-length burka, or the people who say a woman should be able to wear whatever she wishes?' The answer is quite surprising. There are impassioned, no-room-for-doubt feelings on both sides of each issue.

"But what history has taught is that the viewpoint that will be considered correct on this question belongs to the camp with both the might and the will to impose its beliefs on the other. Many in America have trouble with this perspective. We want our Starbucks, our iPods, and drive-through windows, but we don't want our country to commit any acts of aggression against other peoples. We have lost our stomach for war, just as many of the citizens of Rome did."

Funny but dipping the crucifix in urine and cows blood was never considered cruel and inhuman.

One guy even considered it an "artform".

US President George W. Bush just got demoted to a D grade with me. Shrub has De-nutted himself again.

The biggest impediment to defeating Jihad is respect for religion. If something is harmful, it should not be respected. Got that, George?

"acts intended to denigrate the religion”
Sure…. Big torture item. Isn’t that why they are in jail? Or should we let Nazis remain Nazis?

I wonder what scary cats pushed that into the order. Something that would be very interesting to find. Someone obviously wants the Islamists to remain as deadly when they come out as when they came in. Someone is scared one of those extremists turns their back on Islam, and shed light on the depraved and evil ideology that it is.

“The biggest impediment to defeating Jihad is respect for religion. “
Posted by: jewdog

If they respected religion so much, why do these bureaucratic bumblers from heck seem to attack Judaism and Christianity at every chance? Seem more like an alliance of the Bolsheviks and the Jihadis. Stalin and Muhammad would be proud of them.

Anybody willing to venture a definition of religion here?

Furthermore, what exactly does religious object of an individual mean?

Sorry, no offense to Princetonians and Harvardians and Yalies and Oxfordians and such ilk, but I just cannot countenance such stupdities, and nor should you.

Sounds like Bush is trying to out-do peanut Khadr in stupidity just to see how much damage he can do to America...

Bush continues to disappoint....

This idiotic executive order puts American soldiers in danger, makes them more likely to be tortured, and undermines reenlistment rate.

1. "Pretty, pretty please would you please tell us where you put the IED's!" just won't work when interrogating Iraqi terrorists, but hey, apparently Bush is more worried that the jihadis religious feelings ain't offended rather about US soldiers driving into an ambush that could be avoided. Hey, why don't we just issue blanks to the US troops in Iraq, after all, it must be hugely offensive to the jihadis religious feelings to get his @ss smoked by a christian!

2. In the real world, not the imaginary world of Amnesty International and Bush, what keeps enemies from torturing our troops is fear of reprisal, i.e., if I torture a soldier, I am likely to get tortured myself if captured. Once the enemy, the jihadi, has used torture, there is absolutely no reason not to torture him in return. In fact, it SHOULD be done, so that any future enemies know that if they torture captive US troops, they will get tortured themselves. Bush just send the message to future US enemies hey, feel free to treat US troops as lousy as you want, we won't retaliate.

The proper policy that would protect US troops is decent treatment of US enemies that treat captured US troops decently, and captive combatants of US enemies that do not treat US troops decently should get the same treatment they dish out to US troops.

The objective of a war is to win, not to be "morally" better then the other side - and lose.

3. Idiotic policies such as this undermine morale. Men will go and face fire, but they need to be allowed to fight back. Stupid policies such as this where the two captures US troops were tortured and killed, while US troops are not allowed to retaliate against the jihadis who did this when they capture them in return, undermine esprit decorps. Nothing sends the message to the troops "I really have no idea what war is about and here I am, a commander in chief" then a stupid executive order like this, which is trying to suck up to the very people, the jihadis, that are killing US soldiers right now.

There is just a refusal at the leadership level to understand that you cannot win a war without violating "civil" rights of the enemy in all possible ways, including killing them. No one in the history of the world has been such an idiot to claim that enemy soldiers have any sort of constitutional rights in the counry which they are trying to destroy, but there is always a first time for everything, apparently.

Does this protect non-muslims? Or is this more pandering to the Islamists' separate but equal play?

Does this protect non-muslims?
No way. This little deal is for islam and the quran.
You know how rampant "islamophobia" is.
/blech

"Bush continues to disappoint...."

Maybe Bush's colonoscopy tomorrow will promote some clear thinking.

BTW, we needed an executive order for this?
The borders are still wide open...

This only goes to prove once more that the people that run our government don't have a clue about what they're dealing with.

When I saw the picture of Nancy Pelosi, with a mile-wide grin, administration the oath of office to Keith Ellison, I wondered if this woman's IQ level would even register on a scale measuring intellegence.

She seemed more than happy to administer an oath to a man whose theology tells him that she doesn't have half his brains, can be beaten at will by her husband or other male relative, and, should she commit any sexual indiscretions, can be buried up to her neck and stoned to death.

Nancy wouldn't last as long as a snowball in hell in a society administered by Ellison and his Islamic brothers.

If a White Male congressman ventured the opinion that maybe women should dress more modestly in our country, Nancy and her sisters would go after him with both barrels blasting away.

Are people like her stupid, or is it willful ignorance? I really don't know.

But I can well understand the grin on Ellison's face. He just put one over on the whole country.

Hmmm, wonder where CAIR might be? Oh, that's right, on some TV show "defending" the community against "Islamaphobia?"

Or maybe at the DC Islamic Center watching the President state a their religion has been "hijacked."

Hmmm, wonder where CAIR might be? Oh, that's right, on some TV show "defending" the community against "Islamaphobia?"

Or maybe at the DC Islamic Center watching the President stating that their religion has been "hijacked."

BTW, we needed an executive order for this?
The borders are still wide open...

sorry about the hiccup.

This is just another spineless action in an endless list of spineless actions by this president. Pandering to the left will only encourage them to undermine America that much more. Pandering to Muslims is just plain suicide.

There should be no question about what religious sensitivities this is intended to protect. We are fighting Islamic terrorists here. It is in fact an order prohibiting "acts intended to denigrate [Islam], [Islamic] practices, or [Islamic] objects...."

The major problem right now confronting America (and the West in general) is the continued disinclination to publicly call Islam what it really is: pure spiritual totalitarianism. This politically correct nonsensical approach, which sadly President Bush and almost all politicians participate in, is our weakest link. With proper acknowledgement of Islam's true goals by our public officials, we can then use our capacities and resolve to keep Mohammed's invidious creed from infecting (yes, that's the right word; after all, isn't the term "enlightened Muslim" an oxymoron?) our societies. Barring this, we are very probably doomed to destruction, either by Islamic terror, Islamic demographics (they do produce like rabbits, don't they?) or both. We have the means to defeat this evil but only if we possess the appropriate knowledge first. That knowledge is lacking in most quarters now. Ask yourselves this question, those of you who see Islam for the true meance that it is, what percentage of Americans today completely recognize what you already do? Damn, a lot of work still has to be done to save ourselves, no?

I don't know, Wellington...
Neal Boortz did a pretty good job of that the other day (see thread about it)...

From the linked article:

"... I determined for the United States that members of al Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated forces are unlawful enemy combatants who are not entitled to the protections that the Third Geneva Convention provides to prisoners of war. I hereby reaffirm that determination."(President Bush)

Forgive my ignorance, but does Article 3 cover those people who aren't considered prisoners of war protected by the Third Geneva Convention?

It's pathetic. Say what you mean and mean what you say. I know that's a cliche but c'mon. If Bush had just been Bush 2002 (TM) for seven years the jihadists would be on the run. Notwithstanding his lack of understanding of Islam a continuous strong posture would be the next best thing. He can't even do that.

He is expecting reciprocity or respect from the muslims who have won the greater jihad and have decided to accept allahs wishes and are under taking jihad ?

Well, 18 months of this and then we get Hillary.

We're done.

Ummm...ya misspelled hitlery

jcom972: Boortz did a first-rate job, so I agree with you here. Question is, how many Boortzes are there out there? Methinks not nearly enough as of yet. My best to you.

No more Qur'an-flushing?

It'd probably just clog up the toilet anyway, unless it was ripped up first or very small. Bush could have protected the plumbing a better way, me thinks.

Lets see.

Bush signs an executive order to protect the feelings of Muslims.

Bush refuses to sign an executive order to protect our borders.

Iman Bush is dead to me. Shame I have to put up with his shi'ite for 18 more months.

The White House did not reveal what specific interrogation techniques were now disallowed, but the order prohibits "acts intended to denigrate the religion, religious practices, or religious objects of the individual", and "torture" as defined in 18 USC 2340 [text]....

But if these terrorists highjacked Islam then they arent real Muslims and dont represent Islam so why the worry?

godfreyofbullion:

You sound just like Hugh. Are you his alter ego?

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/07/21/latest-offerings-from-the-religion-of-peace/

Wellington:

Islam is "pure spiritual totalitarianism???"

That's absolute BS. There is no spirituality in Islam.

Its a cult of hate, of genocide, a blood-cult, a genocidal ideology, a misogynistic concept, a world conquest strategy, a mental perversion and many other things, but spritual it is most certainly NOT!

We have lost the war. The only slim hope we had has capitulated. "G, Bush," I won't give in to it. We, as a cogent front disagree; let us fight the dying of the light. Please let us. We, really do have time.

We will intersect.

PS. There is hope for all.

crc

I live and I feel. What more do you expect. No God or nothing. We fight with god or without it. Make your choice. In the next few minutes, your decision will mean something.

I am godless, what are you? What do you fight for? I fight for freedom. Freedom has nothing to do with god .
It has to do with us. Humanity. We are the ones who have to survive. Is that so hard?

(b) I hereby determine that a program of detention and interrogation approved by the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency fully complies with the obligations of the United States under Common Article 3, provided that:

(i) the conditions of confinement and interrogation practices of the program do not include:

(A) torture, as defined in section 2340 of title 18, United States Code;

(B) any of the acts prohibited by section 2441(d) of title 18, United States Code, including murder, torture, cruel or inhuman treatment, mutilation or maiming, intentionally causing serious bodily injury, rape, sexual assault or abuse, taking of hostages, or performing of biological experiments;

(C) other acts of violence serious enough to be considered comparable to murder, torture, mutilation, and cruel or inhuman treatment, as defined in section 2441(d) of title 18, United States Code;

(D) any other acts of cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment prohibited by the Military Commissions Act (subsection 6(c) of Public Law 109 366) and the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (section 1003 of Public Law 109 148 and section 1403 of Public Law 109 163);

(E) willful and outrageous acts of personal abuse done for the purpose of humiliating or degrading the individual in a manner so serious that any reasonable person, considering the circumstances, would deem the acts to be beyond the bounds of human decency, such as sexual or sexually indecent acts undertaken for the purpose of humiliation, forcing the individual to perform sexual acts or to pose sexually, threatening the individual with sexual mutilation, or using the individual as a human shield; or

(F) acts intended to denigrate the religion, religious practices, or religious objects of the individual;

(ii) the conditions of confinement and interrogation practices are to be used with an alien detainee who is determined by the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency:

(A) to be a member or part of or supporting al Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated organizations; and

(B) likely to be in possession of information that:

(1) could assist in detecting, mitigating, or preventing terrorist attacks, such as attacks within the United States or against its Armed Forces or other personnel, citizens, or facilities, or against allies or other countries cooperating in the war on terror with the United States, or their armed forces or other personnel, citizens, or facilities; or

(2) could assist in locating the senior leadership of al Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces;

(iii) the interrogation practices are determined by the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, based upon professional advice, to be safe for use with each detainee with whom they are used; and

(iv) detainees in the program receive the basic necessities of life, including adequate food and water, shelter from the elements, necessary clothing, protection from extremes of heat and cold, and essential medical care.

(c) The Director of the Central Intelligence Agency shall issue written policies to govern the program, including guidelines for Central Intelligence Agency personnel that implement paragraphs (i)(C), (E), and (F) of subsection 3(b) of this order, and including requirements to ensure:

(i) safe and professional operation of the program; ...

I am with the President on this one. There aint much in this order that is new.

Honorary imam George W. Bush issues his first fatwa:

Non-muslims teasing muslim terrorist about their religious beliefs = cruel and unusual punishment.

George, any thoughts on muslim terrorists beheading non-muslims.

No one will answer. When has your god interceded and suppressed the violence? He hasn't. Do you wonder why?

He has left it up to you. Truly, he has left you with the authority. I mean you can make that decision. Cant you?....

crc

Our nation is run by fools.

In the end, without regard to perception, you really don't get it. It really seems to be about you and your perception of the problem.

Most of you project racist attitudes. Whether, your right or not doesn't mean anything. They will use it against you. You need to centralize. The problem is the dogma. I know they will throw it up in your face. That doesn't matter. As long as you know that they have. Throw it back in their face. As long as you stand fast against such action you will prevail. This is what we have. If we don't, we fail. Know thy enemy! Even us, of a differing reality, know the truth of this.

Correction: ...run by excessively rich, greedy fools with too many ties to rich Muslim Arab stockholders.

We are being played like violins by the Saudis and other rich elitists in the Middle East. I'm sure of it. The strategy is simple enough -- buy American stock, appeal to the greed of Americans that could care less about what we deal in here and continue to fund Islamic terror proxy groups so that the American people are cowed into silence and constantly looking to "our friends the Saudis" for aid in contending with the threat from the "radical minority".

It's perfect gambit and it's working. The Bush family has been profiting wildly from such financial alliances for decades.

Exhibit A:

Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, 5th richest man in the world

http://foehammer.vodpod.com/pod/category/12934/VideoCategory.7289

Foehammer

Truly, you speak the truth on this site. One day, the strings of the Saudis will run sour. It will be too late. We have no control over this. This has been decided before our birth. From there, perhaps, we have a choice. Let us decide properly.

crc

Slightly OT on this thread, but just stumbled upon this:

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2007/07/watchlists

"They may never know it, but U.S. air travelers and others set off silent terrorist warning alarms nearly 20,000 times in 2006 when their names matched against the government's centralized terrorist watch list, according to a statistic buried in a Department of Justice document. ...."

(check out www.stumbleupon.com)

Gramfan

You are correct. It is jihad, jihad and jihad. God bless you mother. Figure then one out. An atheist
applauds you.

Sorry, moments later. Problems.

Think.........!

To quote the great Unca Lee: "Slit my throat if you must, but please don't call me a racist!"

Well at least Melanie Phillips has new book material.
"Americastan"

the article above said that it hamstrings them in trying to determine a great deal about the motives and goals of the people they're interrogating...

Bush has just handed America to those who want us dead, Islam.
Goodbye America...hello sharia..

Then there is this:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/NATION04/107200029/1008&template=nextpage

One recent session at the Army Judge Advocate General's Legal Center and School in Charlottesville included an instructor who taught one class that "we must hesitate and be careful when we pull the trigger," the officer said.

"They are teaching that even following ROE, while not illegal, may not be a good idea," the officer said. "They are teaching that to win the hearts and minds that we may have to take casualties through hesitations."

A Defense official said the problem with hesitation is that it is similar to saying that if a solider is confronted by an armed terrorist, he may have a legal right under the rules to fire but that he should hesitate on the theory that the terrorist could be won over through appealing to their "hearts and minds."

The official said such advice is deadly.

"As statistics show, hesitation in a situation like this gets a soldier killed," the official said. "Second, 'hearts and minds' in counterinsurgency operations refers to winning the hearts and minds of the innocent civilians through protecting them from terrorists."

The official said Army Chief of Staff Gen. George W. Casey Jr. should find the instructor and have him fired. "Either that or teach him the words to 'Kumbaya' and send him into al Qaeda territory in Iraq, unarmed," the official said.

Goodbye America...hello sharia..

Posted by: Gaye at July 21, 2007 7:15 AM

Sure looks that way.

Bush. What is there to say. The name alone says it all at this point.

You could perhaps be forgiven for thinking that we are being led by idiots in government, look at all the stupid things they implement which assist the march of Islam and diminish the possibility of controlling it on your shores. We shake our heads in wonder at the madness of allowing mass immigration of the followers of a potential culture shaking religion and look on in amazement as they form enclaves within our borders, unhindered.. We listen to the ‘Hearts and Minds’ tactic being used in the war against ‘Extremism’, while soldiers are led to courts martial for shooting at the enemy. The list of ‘inconsistencies’ is a long one as we have seen here in J/W and D/W.
Have you ever thought about stepping back and looking at the bigger picture?
Is it not possible that the stupidity regularly shown by our respective governments is not stupidity at all but really a well thought out plan?
If you read in to the Club of Rome activities (and the membership) you’ll see that there are grave concerns over projected world population figures…..and if you look a bit deeper you’ll find the name Bilderburg creeping in (and group members).

What a brilliant way to solve world population, swamp countries with a malignant totalitarian religion, illegal immigrants and bend the knee to their demands. Protect these individuals at every opportunity while listening to the growing resentment at the insanity of this ‘stupidity’ poke it with a stick now and then light the touch paper and retire to an island in the pacific while it all kicks off. Population problem solved.
Yes Islam is a serious threat and had shown itself to be a despicable hate mongering cult but what’s perhaps more despicable is the apparent lack of political will to deal with it or other culture shattering events.
The baby boomer materialists have got a softer underbelly than those from distant shores who would grasp it all, given half a chance. How many chances are they being given……

Yes I admit it’s a strange proposition and so far out that it doesn’t have much credibility but sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction and Black Flag operations are a matter of record.

Foehammer and other are getting it. The US elite is just that: corrupt. When the election was between Al Gore and Bush, corporate America gave their money to Bush, because they were afraid of new legislation (cleaner air etc.) that would cut into their profits. Now they have their profit, but in the end they may loose the country.

Sheik yer'mami: I respectfully disagree with you that Islam is not a spiritual totalitarian system. In fact, I would vigorously argue it is the quintessential spiritual totalitarian ideology of all time, and an unfortunately damn successful one at that. And your claim that there is nothing spiritual about Islam can be easily disproved. Muslims believe Allah is a spirtual being. They also believe there is a spirtual world in general alongside that of the material world. The issue isn't whether Islam is a religion or not, a spiritual system or not, etc., but rather is it innocuous or harmful? I concluded many years ago (long before 9/11) that Islam is the one major religion which is not intrinsically good or at least harmless to society at large. It's awful and for so many reasons------its founder, its holy book, its legal system, its prohibition on separating secular from spiritual authority and on and on. No, Islam is a spiritually based totalitarian ideology all right (unlike, say, Marxism or fascism which are secular in nature), but it's a very warped one indeed and bodes ill for things reasonable people should cherish, like democracy, women's rights, tolerance, progress and true repsect for those who don't share your belief system. Islam fails across the board here. Just because you don't like Islam and find it heinous in many respects (and I share your disgust here) doesn't mean it's not a religion or spiritual system. After all, where is it written that just because something is a religion, it must be good?

Nothing wrong with prohibiting torture, but I wonder what Bush is really doing here. He's not known for being particularly opposed to "harsh interrogation techniques." Is he trying to gain some sort of leverage? Or--worse--is he attempting to placate the jihadists?

And I gotta agree with Wellington on that last post--Islam is totalitarian through and through. Much is made of the supposed Koranic injunction that decisions be made following "shura", but this is little more than a council of male elders (which may have been necessary among desert nomads but is downright anachronistic in the 21st century). The word Islam itself means submission (and not "peace," though the root s-l-m does connote peace). That's Islam's ideal--peace through submission. Submission of Muslims to Allah, submission of non-Muslims to Muslims--that, to them, is peace. To me, it is fascism.