Lal Masjid Update. "Eight top terrorists inside Lal Masjid," from the Daily Times:
ISLAMABAD: Eight “high value terrorists” wanted by Pakistan and other countries are holed up inside Lal Masjid, while another was killed by security forces in the ongoing operation, Religious Affairs Minister Ejazul Haq said on Sunday.
“Nine suspected terrorists said to be far more dangerous and harmful than Al Qaeda and Taliban operatives were hiding inside the mosque compound,” Haq told a press conference here. He refused to reveal the identities of these militants.
He said that security forces killed one of these suspected terrorists inside Lal Masjid on the second day of the ongoing operation. He was the mastermind of the failed suicide attack on Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz in Attock in 2005, he said.
Haq said that the militants and not Abdul Rashid Ghazi, Lal Masjid’s deputy chief cleric, were controlling the mosque. “The militants are holding children and Ghazi hostage,” he said. He said that of those who had surrendered to the security forces, three girl students were still unclaimed. They were being kept at the Pakistan Sports Complex.
A curious and telling choice of words. In addition, Religious Affairs Minister Haq's claim that Ghazi is a hostage seems highly unlikely, unless, of course, he was prevented from following in his brother's footsteps and trying to escape in a burqa. Haq and many others may also be in denial that the problem could have roots in Pakistan, rather than being the work of outsiders.
He said that about 500 male and female students were still stranded inside the mosque. He also ruled out the government launching any action against other madrassas in Pakistan, including Jamia Faridia.
AFP adds: The hardcore militants inside include two commanders from the banned Harkatul-Jihad-e-Islami, security officials said.
“We believe there are militants from Harkatul-Jihad-e-Islami, which was involved in the [Daniel] Pearl murder. Based on intelligence we suspect that two commanders from the group are in there,” one senior official told AFP. “They have taken control and they are putting up fierce resistance.” The information was based on “intercepts” and other intelligence, the officials said.
A source inside the mosque said there was a “lot of tension among the various groups inside the compound on how to conduct the fight”. He identified one of the Harkatul-Jihad-e-Islami militants as Abu Zar, said to be a one-time accomplice of the group’s late leader Amjad Farooqi, who was killed by security forces in 2004.
He also named a Pakistani Taliban militant from Waziristan, Mohammad Fida, as the “security chief” of the compound. There was no official confirmation of the names.
“Nine suspected terrorists said to be far more dangerous and harmful than Al Qaeda and Taliban operatives were hiding inside the mosque compound,”
Wow.
Since Al Qaeda are bad guys and the Taliban were bad guys, these terrorists must be really, really bad guys.
Thank God for President Musharraf, he’s a good guy.
I still say they should have bombed the mosque on day 1.
Sometimes it seems as if Musharraf is the only thing keeping the Jihadists at bay, and he doesn't even do that so well.
I do find it intriguing how the other political parties are turning to Musharraf as the one to blame for any injuries/deaths that occur. Surely it is those inside the mosque who are to blame for any injuries/deaths that occur. It is as if the mosque militants have become the victims O_o
It's like, a Jihadist blows himself up, and then it's the fault of the police, or of the guy who got blew up, rather than the fault of the Jihadist.
Strange strange logic these people have..
These islamist holed up in that mosque must have ties to BinLaden and his 2nd in command, and that is probably why they are wanted alive more than dead.
I'm confused. Are they really hostages or are they also students of the mosque and therefore also "militants" and willing participants in this stand-off?
Waco, Texas, anyone?
Except in this case, General Musharraf ought to simply wait them out. With no food nor water, these extremists inside the Red Mosque will wander out soon. That, and I'm on the gov't. side this time.
Otherwise, the 8 or 9 top terrorists holed up in there will let the first 492 die before they will.
That's 'Martyrdom' for ya.
You mean, that's Muslim Martyrdom for you.
A 'good' Muslim is a terrorist:
http://www.sheikyermami.com/
Isn't this about the 20th time the Pakistani military has claimed to have a "high value" terrorist surrounded? Usually they hint that its AQ's #2 and ultimately the "high value" terrorist turns out to be nothing special.Wake me up when they have Osama or Mullah Omar dead or alive. Though I'd prefer dead.
Down with mini-Bush (i.e. Musharaf). Actually,down with Bush too.
Ex-lover of jesus and absolutely, categorically, passionately no lover of Judeo-Nazis.
..they have about 50 burka wimmin corraled inside the mosque..
Aw c'mon, what about reporting on all those Christian churches with terrorists holed up inside them?
And the Buddhist terrorists shooting from stupas?
And the Hindu terrorists firing from temples of Ganesha?
Let have some balance!
It can't only be Muslims doing this...
The reporters have just to got work harder to find them!
Earlier today (Sunday) the BBC ran, and then dropped, a story that came from the Pakistani High Command about how they have lost the war against the Taliban and Al-Quaida. Most, if not all, of the British trained upper and middle echelons of the Pakistani military are transferring their families and what wealth they have out of the country. His Excellency President General Musharraf is no exception. Most of His Excellency's extended family are already abroad and he and his financial advisors have already transferred most of his wealth to friendly countries.
The current government of Pakistan is getting ready to abandon the country and it is an open secret now in Islamabad that the next government will be Taliban/Al-Quaida led and that this will most probably happen sometime in the next twelve to twenty-four months. An enormous number of Civil Servants and other professionals are preparing to flee the country. The transfer of wealth from Pakistan to other friendly countries is already disrupting the economy to an enormous extent and it is expected that the Pakistani Rupee will fall significantly in value over the next few months.
The military action against those holed up in the Red Mosque complex is widely viewed as a holding action designed to buy time for the Westernised elite to make an orderly withdrawal but there is a well-founded suspicion that the military will only co-operate with this strategy up to the point at which they, themselves, need to bail out and that this cannot be more than a few months away. Desertions of ordinary soldiers from the ranks has increased massively, especially in the those regiments patrolling in the frontier provinces, and in the provinces which have already fallen to the Taliban/Al-Quaida coalition. Most of the ordinary soldiers and their families are fleeing to India where they are being promptly enrolled in the Republic's frontier regiments - with which they have historical and familial ties. Officers are tending, on the whole (but not exclusively for a significant number are running to India), to flee to Nepal and the UK and USA and hoping, in so doing, to avoid the stigma of co-operating with the Hindu for they hope one day to return and resume their influential, and wealthy, lives in Pakistan.
It has become obvious that UK and USA Special Forces are operating inside Pakistan in a vain attempt to bring the situation there under some sort of control. UK Special Forces are operating in the Republic of India's border regiments, as well, and are helping to integrate Pakistani deserters back into military life and upgrade their skills. The government in Delhi is acutely aware that it needs the special 'on-the-ground' knowledge which these new soldiers bring, for a war with an Islamic and militant Pakistan is now seen as inevitable in Delhi - and probably in London and Washington also. That both countries are nuclear powers is exceedingly worrisome to Western governments, not just because of the environmental consequences should a nuclear exchange take place or should the Taliban/Al-Quaida axis gain additional nuclear weapons knowledge, but also because they might be forced to take sides - something that they have strenuously avoided doing in the past (as we all know).
As for the reports that some top-level Taliban/Al-Quaida operatives are inside the Lal Masjid - who knows? It's not unthinkable but it is unlikely. The problem, you see, is that generally important people in the movement merely foment unrest. What we, and His Excellency President General Musharraf, are dealing with, is an invisible enemy, one which foments the disturbance and then runs away before the denouement and leaves the plebs to be slaughtered - for, in that, is even more propaganda, and they know it. It is probably likely that it is only locally important leaders of the Taliban/Al-Quaida alliance who are inside the mosque and not nationally, or internationally, important leaders. The use of females is also revealing, designed, as it is, to appeal to the antiquated male chauvinist attitudes of many muslim men.
In short, Pakistan (اسلامی جمہوریۂ پاکستان in Urdu) is a mess, and an unstable and unpredictable mess at that. The plight of the few remaining Jews and Christians in that sorry and benighted country does, of course, go unreported in the West - excepting, thank God, on such internet sites as this one!
Mr, Ralbrooke, your posting suggesting a take over by Taliban/Al-Quaida in the “South East Asian” country. Followed by them forming an Islamic and Militant Pakistan is bone chilling to say the least.
Oh.. And, “Progressive the Regressive”…. I see you’ve fallen back to the usual “Middle Class Socialist Brat” stance of hurling catchy phase and anti-quotations? Nothing substance to add to the thread? (ROFLMAO at you)
From the article:
It seems that even within the "tiny minority of extremists", there is only a "tiny minority of extremists", and the rest, like Abdul Rashid Ghazi, are just "moderate extremists", being held hostage by the "extreme extremists". That is, if we are to believe spokespersons and pundits and Middle East Experts.
I seriously doubt there is anyone inside the Red Mosque that is worth saving.
The brave terrorists will probably surround
themselves with little girls and try to escape.
Completely off-topic:
As a reminder as to what a Western society can accomplish when somebody chooses to unleash it’s potential:
The USS George Washington was the world’s first ballistic missile submarine. Totally cutting edge technology. It was designed with pencils, paper, and slide-rules. The submarine was authorized, envisioned, designed, built, and put to sea in three years. From somewhere underneath the world’s oceans, it could launch intercontinental ballistic missiles and destroy sixteen entire cities.
We haven’t completely lost it yet. We live in an era of strangulating regulation, the EEOC, OSHA, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, the IRS, workers compensation, government-imposed affirmative action quotas, sexual harassment lawsuits, traffic tolls, and your local homeowner’s association. In spite of it all, our Countrymen have prevailed and rolled out a pretty cool new airliner. Our foe is still working on figuring out how to use a mortar.
http://news.aol.com/story/_a/boeing-unveils-new-dreamliner-jet/20070708171809990001
senor doeboy, there is no question, other than the timescale, that Pakistan is a lost cause. That there are many moderate - some, not an inconsiderable number, pro-western - muslims who will remain trapped inside Pakistan and suffer greatly is a given.
The education system inside Pakistan is primarily to blame. The State has resigned its role in education to the religious elite - excepting for those who can afford the private schools - and this means that only a limited corpus of knowledge, based on the koran, is taught to the vast majority of Pakistani citizens. It is no coincidence that well over ninety percent of Pakistanis believe that the Earth is flat and that Mecca is the centre of the Earth.
In Pakistan today there is a world-view that is, quite simply, at variance with the facts. Superstition and tribal loyalties have been encouraged in contradistinction to suprastition and objective human reality. Mark my words - Pakistan is the next big problem we in the West will have to face, unless Indonesia explodes in our faces!
If you listen carefully you’ll hear it, that scrabbling sound in the background! It’s sounds like passport and visa being rubbed together and sandals skittering over rough cobblestones…..screeching tires of the taxi heading to the airport……Yes I do believe it’s Naseem coming back to ‘ol Blighty!
How long this circus lasts ?
# topic header...
THE question is:
"HOW high a value target are the jihadists"?
Enough to drop a M.O.A.B. on it?
...it comes as no surprise that militant Muslims are cornered in a Mosque, after all, a mosque is nothing more than a military operations center...there are too many terrorists caught with associations with mosques to think otherwise...Wherever mosques are built, trouble soon follows....it is clear to me the we must ban Muslims immigration....
“Nine suspected terrorists said to be far more dangerous and harmful than Al Qaeda and Taliban” -
Sounds like they discovered a recycled species of Zombies…!
Here's a picture of 'progressive'- the resident troll:
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/07/09/infiltration-hizb-ut-tahrir-cambridge-the-global-jihad/
Now sheik...
That was an insult to zombies everywhere!
(sarc)
lol
Jonathan Ralbrooke, your points are very concerning, i just looked up their economy and found this: http://www.economist.com/countries/Pakistan/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-Forecast
its just a basic report but the wavering of thier economy is showing allready. awsome view, i will be looking at that country's stability very intensly
thanks
19thgenamerican
"A source inside the mosque said there was a “lot of tension among the various groups inside the compound on how to conduct the fight”.
....the same situation outside the Mosque compound on how to conduct the fight.....several thousand troops surrounding one building should have no difficulty is leveling the building without suffering one casualy.....The Pakistani army has some very good artillery purchased from the Russians that could be put into action....If the Pakistani army has conducted any training at all, the building could be leveled in about 2 minutes.....
....THese "students" inside the mosque are the same ones killing music store operators, killing newpaper editors and journalists, killing ice cream vendors, killing teachers, and killing anyone else who has half a brain.....these "students" are not even worthy enough for capture....
....load up the artillery and fire away....then when the massive protests take place , fire away again....let it be known you will no longer submit to the tactics of thugs and murderers....the next mosque that gets caught preaching hate and teaching others to kill will be leveled...the cycle continues....time to put the heat on the thugs....they have earned it....
"....load up the artillery and fire away....then when the massive protests take place , fire away again....let it be known you will no longer submit to the tactics of thugs and murderers....the next mosque that gets caught preaching hate and teaching others to kill will be leveled...the cycle continues....time to put the heat on the thugs....they have earned it....
Posted by: exsgtbrown "
Are you asking this of an islamic country ?
Assalamau Laikum all,
Here are currently some thoughts on how things will go from here....Lahore is very stable for now by the way.
1) Some of the madrassa are being used as a cover for activities other than education...this is a disgusting misuse of hukamat provided facilities, those response will not recieve the light of Islam...Allah SWT will not be best pleased with them.
2) The army is not best pleased having to face it's own peoples, however it will have to face them in a number of madrassa. Increasingly, peoples are waking up to the fact that the problems will not go away after lal masjid.
3) Because Mushi is being seen increasingly as the West's shining boy...peoples are becoming more racidal...looking for answers from Islam...and many islamic parties are telling them what they want to hear.
4) Any sounds of Pinky Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif to come and setup democracy are being rebuffed....we don't want another Iraq..they are saying.
As to the "Auntie Ghazi", far from being punished or held in a high security prision, I hear he is being hosted in a villa with servents. This is courtesy of our religious minister Mr. Ul-Haq, close relation of one Zia-ul-Haq, watching his handy work from hell. Ghazi has access to media and gives the odd interview, he is enjoying new fame.
Similarly, those that surrender and had nothing to do with the fight within the mosque, will be debriefed, given 5000 rupees compensation and sent home.
Far from this ending peacefully and quickly...this looks to a long drawn and bloody affair, already a colonel of the rangers has been killed. The militants I feel have nothing to surrender for.
Given that these folks took a wrong turning, we are all going to have to suffer..Looks like sharia-lite may have to wait a little while...sorry about that folks...but lets wait a bit before we get carried away.
Ah, but people will be getting carried away, in wooden boxes...another symptom of the religion of peace.
Meanwhile, Heathrow awaits a massive influx of miserable Muslims moaning and mumping.
"Given that these folks took a wrong turning..."
Posted by: Naseem
....They don't think so.....
Jonathan Ralbrooke,
Before the military flee their posts and desert the country, will they disable their nukes?
Will Britain be overrun with refugees?
You said:
Officers are tending, on the whole (but not exclusively for a significant number are running to India), to flee to Nepal and the UK and USA and hoping, in so doing, to avoid the stigma of co-operating with the Hindu for they hope one day to return and resume their influential, and wealthy, lives in Pakistan.
And they think they won't have problems if they cooperate with the Great Satan or the infidel? But that's true only if we lose and Muslims actually do take over Britain and America. Then they return to Pakistan in all their glory.
Rogster,
Their logic isn't all that strange. It can be summed up in four words:
me good, you bad.
Whether they are the ones killing or being killed, they are in the right. I'm not sure they're all that different from anyone else in human history.
Only a matter of time till they come after you, Nasseem.
Shiites are 'rafidite dogs' and Ahmadiya's are no better for the true believers. Will the Sufi's be spared or are they also apostates?
Won't be long before they're coming for you....
sheik yer'mam
Nasseem is well aware of the predicament and knows 'they are coming'. While we wait with great anticipation for 'mild sharia' the o'l Nasseem will have to contend with an extreme case of Diarrhea because as we all know, Islam at its worst can really give you the shits.
Jonathan Ralbrooke wrote:
"It is no coincidence that well over ninety percent of Pakistanis believe that the Earth is flat and that Mecca is the centre of the Earth."
Are you serious, or are you being sarcastic? Really, what percentage of Pakistanis think the earth is flat? Anything over 5 percent would be very troubling.
Charles Bogle
They believe in Allah......LOL, a flat earth is the least of their problems.
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
Let's face it, if someone is dumb enough to swallow this nonsense, they're probably stupid enough to go the whole hog and believe anything. Especially if it's written in a foreign language and requires an interpreter to explain the complexities of the matter = Islam.
So about eight primary targets, 1500 secondary ones.... I'm breaking out the chips and beer!