"A country cannot protect itself ad infinitum, because there would be no end to it." -- from a recent statement by Ehud Olmert
Which is worse? The offense to English, or the offense to common sense?
Israel not only can, but must, protect itself, as Olmert awkwardly and incorrectly put it, "ad infinitum." And the idea that it is an outrageous demand by citizens that the state protect it from unceasing bombardment is itself outrageous. It can do so, but it can do so best if it recognizes clearly that what it faces is not "Palestinian" nationalism, but a Lesser Jihad by Arabs. And by other Muslim states as well, to the precise degree that the peoples of those states have no other identity, and wish to be as "Arab" in their lineage and outlook as they can: see Pakistan. In a few cases -- Kemalist Turkey, and Iran under the Shah -- some Muslim regimes were able to cultivate relations with Israel, not least where the population was contemptuous of the Arabs, as is true in Turkey and Iran.
But the war on Israel is indeed a war on an Infidel polity, on land once in Muslim hands. The very idea that non-Muslims may rule Muslim land must be rejected, even if the non-Muslims were there first. Even if the land had been left in desolation and ruin by its various Muslim overlords, even if it was well on the way to being depopulated (see the evidence supplied by Western travellers to the Holy Land in the mid-19th century) until Jewish settlers revived it, the land still must be again in Muslim control.
Once this is clearly grasped, and not only by a group of scholars of Islam, but by the main figures in the Israeli government, and by the entirely inadequate Israeli media, and once it is further grasped that all negotiations that lead to all treaties are pointless given that Muslim jurisprudence regulating treaties with Infidels is clearly, unambiguously based on the Treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya in 628 A.D. (see Majid Khadduri, War and Peace in the Law of Islam) then, and only then, will the farcical "peace processes" be stopped, or no longer taken seriously. The only way for Israel to protect itself and, not incidentally, to make war less likely, is through recognition that only "Darura" or Necessity -- the necessity of holding back because one is too weak and the enemy too strong -- will prevent the Arabs from again massing for attack.
And all of the instruments of Jihad must be recognized -- instruments, that is, of both the Lesser Jihad (or, more accurately, one of the many Lesser Jihads), that against Israel, and of the Greater Jihad, which is merely the sum of all the local Jihads. These instruments include the Money Weapon, Da'wa, and demographic conquest (with different effectiveness and importance in different theatres of the Jihad-war). And finally, it must be understood that Israel cannot and should not yield any further. A glance at the map tells one -- and tells the Arabs and Muslims -- why. For if the size of Israel makes no difference to the Jihad conducted against it (Israel could be ten times as large, or one-tenth as large, as it now is, and it would not matter), then Israel must think only of how best to deter the Jihad -- how best to force the Arab states to invoke "Darura."
And so too must those Infidels outside of Israel. For whatever measures Israel feels compelled to take are not different from what, on a possibly different timeline, the nations of Western Europe will have to consider.
Jihad is guerre a outrance. Every "peace" treaty is in reality a "truce" treaty; hudnas are supposed to last ten years (though they may be "renewed").
Read Khadduri. Read Antoine Fattal. Read Schacht, and Snouck Hurgronje. You'll have to educate yourself, I'm afraid -- for Muslim apologists and their non-Muslim collaborators have steadily taken over many academic departments all over the West. With smiles and guiles, they ostentatious express "interest" in the students -- those chicken-and-pita dinners, hopes that they might "discover the truth about Islam, behind all the fables, and the stereotypes." Well, what do you expect the American young, aged 18 to 22, to do? They know no better. How could they?
So auto-didacticism is now the great national undertaking -- or should be.
How can this clown have a 3 percent approval rating and still be in power? Any Israelis care to comment?
Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,… every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Uhhhhh, WHAT? Incredible. Doesn't he know that the entire POINT of his job is to protect the citizens that elected him? From threats without and within.
Moron.
"A country cannot protect itself ad infinitum, because there would be no end to it." -- from a recent statement by Ehud Olmert"
This is what the first Jews who faced Mohammed probably thought - and we see the results of their caving in to the muslims - more muslim death and destruction on even more communities, along with the muslims taking all the men and beheading them and enslaving the women and children, and doing whatever their little perverted brains wanted to do to them.
Yes, there is going to be no end to this because islam teaches eternal murder. Read the koran and hadiths and you will know their battle tactics against us. Maybe Olmert needs to crack open a koran and hadith or two.
A peace agreement?! Well, Mohammed told the muslims that a peace agreement shall not last longer than 10 years and it can be broken at anytime before that. While the muslims are in this agreement they are to rearm and regroup and then start the battle when they are ready.
This 'religion' is not a religion.
Teach Ourselves, rather than just 'Teach Yourselves': We need to educate ourselves first, to inform, guide and inspire others to teach themselves. How can JihadWatch help in this regard? Where is the space on the web for a comprehensive directory of articles, lists of authors etc? I am not aware of any. Hugh - don't you see some potential in the web for a collaborative effort in putting together a resource so that we can first teach ourselves? There are few we can trust. And if we wish to broaden our knowledge beyond an attitude contra Islam, then we must do better than winge on forums in the way that many do on here.
exfidel, There are archives in jihadwatch.com under the titles of 'by Robert Spencer' and 'by Hugh Fitzgerald'. I find them tremendously useful.
Look at the top line on jihadwatch.org (under the title and the moon and star).
There are also books and notable figures.
I have also looked further at more books, but read the ones mentioned and then reach out for some more.
exfidel
go to:
http://www.cspipublishing.com/
The Center for the Study of Political Islam
There you will find the best introductory texts on Islam, simple, direct, authoritative. No Bullshit!
http://www.nothingtoxic.com/media/1177931030/Girl_Gets_Stoned_to_Death_for_Dating_a_Man_of_Another_Religion
I state the offense to English (and Latin, for that matter) is the greater evil...
I am coming to the point now where I can see how and why the Muslim forces were so successful in their spectacular and rapid conquests of foreign lands starting in the 7th century. I am observing the how and why right now as our civilization is unforgivably confounded about the enemy. With greater communication, and knowledge I would have expected our modern societies to be wiser in evaluating and confronting this old enemy. Those poor souls that were overwhelmed in the early centuries did not have a chance against the cunning Muslims. The early Christians and other non-Muslims that inhabited the Levant and the Byzantine empire, north Africa, Persia and the Indian subcontinent did not have the excellent communication of today, nor did they have the high level of education and knowledge that we possess today. They must have been so confounded by the new enemy (Muslims) that they were not able to prevent defeat and subjugation. Today, we have incredible resources, including history. Those poor souls of the past had no historical record to see what awaited them. Depressingly, we do today. We know what awaits us if conquered by these devils. And yet we sit confounded in front of our enemy. I do not know what it will take. The enemy seems unbeatable.
norman, you wrote things very well in your post - better than I could have written it.
This is why I say that our people now are 'chosing' ignorance. We have all this communication, books, etc available to us and they are not doing any research. Even the news medias are not doing it, nor are they putting the dots together and reaching any conclusion that should be smacking them in the face!
They look at what is happening today and behave as if it is all a new development in the islamic world. They keep asking 'why are they angry?'! I keep sending emails to them telling them to crack open a koran and hadiths (and it seems I should have included surahs), and they don't do it. They just continue on, and in some cases - under pressure of Saudi money - they chose to convey ignorant messages to the audience.
I don't think that people, overall, are that bright and want to know. They want to put their heads in their behinds and hide. They want to continue their lives and won't do anything unless it affects them directly.
The only thing worse than being a dhimmi is a moron that volunteers to be a dhimmi with no threat to his being whatsoever.
Greetings:
News flash from the Department of Redundancy Department:
"A country cannot protect itself ad infinitum, because there would be no end to it." -- from a recent statement by Ehud Olmert"
This is a good argument why mayors shouldn't be elected national chief executives. National defense ain't filling potholes.
Olmert is right about one thing: with him in charge Israel's survival is in real jeopardy.
I am interested in knowing what can be done "ad infinitum" if that which has no end cannot be done endlessly.
--
When's Barak taking over?
norman wrote:
"The early Christians and other non-Muslims that inhabited the Levant and the Byzantine empire, north Africa, Persia and the Indian subcontinent did not have the excellent communication of today, nor did they have the high level of education and knowledge that we possess today. They must have been so confounded by the new enemy (Muslims) that they were not able to prevent defeat and subjugation. Today, we have incredible resources, including history. Those poor souls of the past had no historical record to see what awaited them. Depressingly, we do today. We know what awaits us if conquered by these devils. And yet we sit confounded in front of our enemy. I do not know what it will take. The enemy seems unbeatable."
********************
Spot on norman.
By the time you wake up to the real islam, you have already sold your wife and daughter to the muslim.
islam is here to stay and conquer - our politicians, army and the media willing.
norman wrote:
"The early Christians and other non-Muslims that inhabited the Levant and the Byzantine empire, north Africa, Persia and the Indian subcontinent did not have the excellent communication of today, nor did they have the high level of education and knowledge that we possess today. They must have been so confounded by the new enemy (Muslims) that they were not able to prevent defeat and subjugation. Today, we have incredible resources, including history. Those poor souls of the past had no historical record to see what awaited them. Depressingly, we do today. We know what awaits us if conquered by these devils. And yet we sit confounded in front of our enemy. I do not know what it will take. The enemy seems unbeatable."
********************
Spot on norman.
By the time you wake up to the real islam, you have already sold your wife and daughter to the muslim.
islam is here to stay - our politicians, army and the media willing.
norman:
I agree with much of what you say, but I think you underestimate the role of the media (i.e. the 'old media') in keeping so many people in a state of ignorance. Here in Britain the BBC are the worst offenders, although they are by no means the only ones.
On the rare evenings that I can stomach watching one of their 'news' programmes I find myself presented with an interpretation of events that is so misleading, so mendacious, and so completely at odds with reality that it may as well have been transmitted from a different universe altogether. As an organisation, they seem to be absolutely determined that facts and truth should never be allowed to stand in the way of the promotion of multiculturalism and every other cause that is sacred to all left-wingers everywhere. They seem to believe that their role and their duty is to promote propaganda, rather than to report the news with any accuracy or degree of objectivity.
And lots of people watch it and, for the most part, trust what they are being told.
Miss_Anthrope - I beg to differ. Clearly the greater offense is the one to common sense.
Yes, I should have mentioned that the popular media from which most of us infidels get our information is one reason why the mass of us is confounded in the face of the enemy. Yes, we get a lot of information from them. Unfortunately, it is mostly worthless. Mostly it is for pure titillation (and I mean for pleasure)and entertainment.
Until the Kingdom of God proclaimed by Jesus the Christ comes in its full glory, there will still be evil people and evil governments. Everyone must be vigilant regarding evil without and within (the state and self).
Yes, Israel must be losing patience, however patience is often the best recourse when dealing with terrorists. This was GW Bush's great error. He just had to do something right away and right now. After spending 600,000,000,000 dollars, the problem with jihadism is worse than ever and he made America look bad amongst many of its allies. There is a time for the "big stick" however a clever leader patiently finds other methods to achieve success.
I am a republican supporter, however I can never understand how someone with a "C" average in college is even considered for being President. Only smartest (and wisest) people should be considered.
I think Olmert means he can't do it alone forever.There are not that many Israelis.
Well, I hope that is what he means because as stated protecting one's citizens, and all the implications that go with it, IS the only thing a government should concentrate on.
Clearly Olmert isn't the only leader who is failing here. Most of the western leaders have failed in this also. But he is the only one who has admitted it, so far.
(BTW I don't like him!)
Terrific advice, Hugh, and seconding gramfan - "protecting one's citizens, and all the implications that go with it, IS the only thing a government should concentrate on" - yes.
See the Jew St Paul, aka Rabbi Saul of Tarsus, on the divinely appointed role of the government [and remember, at the time, he was talking about the pagan Roman government]: Letter to the Romans, Chapter 12, verse 3: "rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil."..and verse 4: "he [the ruler] beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil".
Perhaps the Christians within Israel - who will get killed if the Muslim jihad sweeps over Israel - should be quoting Romans 12 and urging Mr Olmert to fulfil his divinely appointed task as head of state and turn loose the IDF and the Police and the Mossad and the Shin Bet to DO THEIR JOB, that is: "TO EXECUTE WRATH UPON HIM THAT DOETH EVIL". Now, when I look at Hamas' murderous gangs and all the thugs and crooks who are tearing Gaza to bits, and lobbing rockets into Israel in their spare time, not to mention the Muslim thugs terrorising Christians in Ramallah and Bethlehem, and Muslims fomenting rebellion and violence and harassing both Jews and Christians even within Israel's borders [see Nazareth] then that's what I see - "him that doeth evil". Time to wield that sword.
Wake up Israel! Islam wields the sword only to kill and destroy - in the service of evil, slavery and 'honour killings' and stonings and beheadings, tyranny and death, death of the soul, death of art and music and everything joyous and beautiful. But you, O Israel, have every right to take up the sword to destroy the destroyers and defend humanity - life, love, freedom, beauty, joy, music, dance, science, healing, monogamy, Torah devotion, all of which despite your many sins and follies do proliferate within your borders. Defend yourself - in the Name of the Holy One of Israel.
Remember Nehemiah chapter 4 - the biblical version of 'praise the Lord and pass the ammunition'. "We made our prayer unto our God, AND SET A WATCH AGAINST THEM DAY AND NIGHT". They rebuilt the walls of Jerusalem: "And ...the half of my servants wrought in the work, and the other half of them held both the spears, the shields, and the bows, and the habergeons; and the rulers stood behind all the house of Judah. They which builded on the wall, and they that bare burdens...every one with one of his hands wrought in the work, and with the other hand held a weapon. For the builders, every one had his sword girded by his side, and so builded. And he that sounded the trumpet was by me [i.e. Nehemiah, the leader]. And I [Nehemiah] said unto the nobles, and to the rulers, and to the restof the people..."In what place therefore ye hear the sound of the trumpet, resort ye thither unto us: our God shall fight for us". Note - he says 'our God shall fight for us', but it's very clear he doesn't mean that all those chaps with swords and spears will sit on their bottoms while angels do the fighting.
That was after the return from Babylon; the Zionists had to do the same thing, this time around, and the battle and the building are not over yet. If you remember your God and your history, Israel, then you will outlast the Jihad. Might as well remember, too, the words of that American diplomat who told his president, after an interview with the Barbary pirates: "we should not fight them [the Muslims] at all, unless we are prepared to fight them forever".
As Hugh has said on many occasions, and Bat Yeor says it as well: the rest of us: especially Greece, Spain, Serbia, Malta, Sicily, who once endured the horrors of Muslim despotism - should watch Israel and remember that Islam intends to re/conquer US, too. If the Muslims want to call Israel a crusader state, let's make it true, and give Israel the help that she needs. Come on, my fellow Christians - let's tell our heads of state and our foreign ministers that they have GOT to support Israel (no more harassment, no more forcing Israel to surrender to the jihad monster); that if they don't they will be helping the Muslims to carry out a second Shoah.
The West betrayed the Armenians. We betrayed the Lebanese Christians. France sheltered the vile Khomeini and then sent him to Persia to create a monster; and the rest of us let France do it! We still have one small chance to NOT betray the Jews - and the Christians - of Israel. And if we stand with Israel against the Jihad we might just save ourselves as well.
I constantly read entries In both JW and DW, and
I must say, most of the time is good to see that some of us are aware of the magnitude of the problem, nevertheless, I still don't see people concluding that we must destroy Islam in order for us to live. There is no other way.
dumbledoresarmy
I really enjoy your posts. They are very interesting. Thanks:)
Mr. Fitzgerald,
I completely agree with you re: Olmert. But practically speaking, in your opinion, which Israeli politicians or political parties would fare better?
To our Israeli friends:
I must say I wouldn't know for who to vote if I were in your shoes. Any comments & suggestions?
I don't know who is on first in Israeli politics. Sometimes Moshe Yaalon sounds okay, sometimes Avigdor Lieberman, sometimes -- despite his defects -- Netanyahu. I don't know enough to know whom to trust, and the problem in Israel goes wide and deep, in its media and its heedless political elite that steer nervously clear of Islam. To use a term that used to be employed by antisemites in the American government, such as the sweetly vicious George Ball, who wished to force Israel to make suicidal concessions, Israel Will Have To Be Saved In Spite of Itself -- by forcing it to stop making concessions, and to see aright the Lesser Jihad against it.
One assumes this is a matter of silly Left and intelligent Right. It isn't. Sharon was a great soldier but politically turned out to be a fool, and Olmert, who swam in on Sharon's semi-wake, is terrible. But Golda Meir, with her common sense, might had she been properly instructed, understood what Islam is all about, whereas Begin, with his sentimental desire to be liked (see those awful sessions at Camp David with Carter and Brzezinski hammering him down for the sake of Saint Sadat), probably could, with his mental formation, have not.
It would take someone unuusual -- someone at the level of Jabotinsky (who himself was trying to rescue Jews, and never studied Islam himself but knew that "the Arabs" would never accept the Jews, period, and that only if the Jews presented the Arabs with an "iron wall" would the Arabs refrain from military attack. Had Jabotinsky known about Islam, he would have understood exactly why the Arabs would never accept the notion of a Jewish (i.e., Infidel) state, and why only "Darura" or "necessity" -- which is merely a more accurate way of describing the need for that "iron wall" -- would allow Arab rulers to refrain from taking part in outright military attacks. Words such as "jihad" and "dhimmi" were not in Jabotinsky's vocabulary, but had he lived, or had someone at his level lived in Israel a half-century later, he would have figured out, sooner or later, what the war against Israel was, and is.
That's what one wishes for in Israel. A political and intellectual elite willing to comprehend that the war is a Lesser Jihad; that concessions merely whet, and can never sate, the Arab Muslim appetite; that instead of passing over this in silence, it would be helpful for Israelis and for Israel's well-wishers to have this matter articulated publicly; that the citizens of Western Europe should be made to realize that the Lesser Jihad against Israel is not unlike what they now face, because they too were ruled by people who, out of ignorance and negligence, permitted the large-scale immigration of Muslims into countries whose people are now, and will in the future, pay a heavy price, whatever it is they choose to do.
Hugh: 'That's what one wishes for in Israel...".
Yes. Not sure whether or how it will happen. I'm not sure even David Lozowick, author of a good book called "Right to Exist", fully 'gets' the deep sources of Muslim Arab hatred of the 'uppity Jews' of Israel.
I know a couple of Bat Ye'or's books have been published in Israel, in Hebrew. Given that they've also been published in French, Russian and English, that covers most of the Israeli reading population, potentially. What I don't know is how they've been SELLING in Israel, which Mme Ye'or has visited a number of times, and whether they're believed by those who read them. Shoutout to Robert - is anyone translating the PIG to Islam, and The Truth About Mohammed, into Hebrew?
To all Gentiles here who agree with Hugh: make sure you visit the Jerusalem Post online, regularly (I do). All their articles and opinion pieces have talkback. 250 words per comment, max. They also have Letters to the Editor. Write Letters. Post in the talkbacks. Keep it sharp. Mention, over and over, people like Bat Yeor, Robert Spencer, and formidable scholars like Joseph Schacht. Quote the Qur'an. I've been doing that. Words of encouragement - plus hard nuggets of information.
To our Jewish Israeli friends who post here...how bad IS the level of ignorance of the history of jihad and dhimmitude, in Israel, really?
You know you're in trouble when your prime minister sounds like Yogi Berra.
I think Carolyn Glick of the Jerusalem Post and Stephen Plaut in his blog get it -- for what that's worth. But generally speaking, Israeli elites -- academic, intellectual, media -- appear to be as clueless as ours, but unlike ours, they are not just playing pointless word games, they have life and death matters at stake. Dr. Johnson on the prospect of hanging concentrating the mind wonderfully is relevant here, but who has time for the good doctor when you've got Bourdieu or Foucault or whomever they are reading these days at Berkeley and Tel Aviv and you're so terribly busy with the job of work of constructing a Palestinian national identity. Depend upon it, Sir, those same Israeli intellectuals won't be hanging around for long once they get their cherished one democratic state and it starts to look like Gaza, they'll leave that sort of living to their servants -- all those slobs and losers not clever enough to get an academic appointment in Oxford, tant pis pour eux.
Hugh - I respectfully disagree with you concerning Begin. He had no overwhelming need "to be liked" (in political terms). After all, he spent 30 years in the Israeli parliment in opposition for the sake of his principals.
I suspect that the reason for Begin's concessions to the U.S. was that he, like all Israeli leaders since 1973, bowed to the reality of Israel's dependence on the U.S. to,
1. serve as her sole strategic rear area, and
2. prevent the world community from placing Israel under South Africa style economic sanctions (even more deadly for Israel now given her export driven economy).
Elements in the U.S. national security establishment such as Brzenski and Baker have never been shy about driving home that reality to Israel in order to get concessions to appease the Arab/Muslim world.
Yitzhak Shamir, Begin's successor, former Irgun colleague, and a tough and stubborn guy, was also forced by a U.S. President (GHWB) to attend the Madrid summit. So began the process which led to Israel's withdraw from Gaza and large parts of Judea/Samaria.
Another factor is boiling frog theory: Begin probably never thought that his return of the Sinai would lead to the pressure to give up other, more vital territories.