John Derbyshire is bored

Speaking of "Islamophobia" and denial, John Derbyshire in his "June Diary" at National Review (thanks to Uncle Jeff) tells us he's bored by the whole thing:

Islamophobia. People keep trying to convert me to it, and I keep resisting. Most recently, a dear friend passed me an advance reader copy of a 224-page book titled The Submission of Women and Slaves, published by the Center for the Study of Political Islam.

I gave the book an honest try, but it is stupefyingly dull stuff. A lot of it is quotes from what the author (unnamed) calls “the Islamic Trilogy” — that is, the three holy texts of Islam: Koran, Sira (life of Mohammed), and Hadith (the traditions about Mohammed). Those are really dull stuff. At random, this quote from something called Bukhari’s Hadith, 3:46:717.

Ibn Aun wrote a letter to Nafi. Nafi wrote in reply that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq tribe without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day.

Well, great. The point of the book quoting this is... Well, I’m not clear what it is. The quote is in a section headed “Mohammed and Sexual Slavery,” and prefaced with the sentence: “Here is another situation in jihad where Mohammed got a new sexual partner.” Uh-huh. And I should care... why? Things were pretty rough back in seventh-century Arabia. I knew that.

This put me in mind of Hugh Fitzgerald's superb piece from a few months back, "Is anyone else getting bored?" In it, Hugh says this:

We're all bored, just as bored, even more bored, than you are with Islam, and Jihad, and with having to listen to solemn parsing of speeches by Bin Laden, or Ahmadinejad, or Mahathir Mohammed, or with having to analyze some promise made by Hosni Mubarak or Pervez Musharraf or Mahmoud Abbas. Why should primitive peoples with primitive belief-systems take up our time? Because they can. Because they must. Because the Western world made a big mistake, over the past four decades, and now it is paying for it.

And it's the same thing here. Why should we care about what Muhammad did? Because millions of Muslims around the world regard him as an "excellent example" of conduct (Qur'an 33:21). Because hundreds of millions would agree with Muqtedar Khan's statement: "No religious leader has as much influence on his followers as does Muhammad (Peace be upon him) the last Prophet of Islam….So much so that the words, deeds and silences (that which he saw and did not forbid) of Muhammad became an independent source of Islamic law. Muslims, as a part of religious observance, not only obey, but also seek to emulate and imitate their Prophet in every aspect of life. Thus Muhammad is the medium as well as a source of the divine law.”

Thus if Muhammad took women as captives after battles and used them as concubines, it is a matter of some concern for non-Muslims, as boring as it may be, since such behavior could recur at any time, unless it is addressed and rejected as a pattern for future action by Islamic reformers, and those reforms gain serious traction in the Islamic world. But that isn't happening.

The argument of this book, and of the many like it that have been thrust into my hands this past few years by well-meaning friends, is that Islam is a beastly, horrible religion founded by a heartless, crazy guy, and that it is coming to get me. To prove this, someone who really needs to get a life has spent months picking apart the holy texts of Islam — scriptures that great swathes of Islamia can’t understand anyway, not being able to speak Arabic, and which actual believers, like believers (except for a few crazy fanatics) in all other religions, selectively ignore when it suits them to.

Of course they do. And then the jihad recruiters come and call them back to observance of the portions they're ignoring. And this has proven successful as a recruiting tactic even in the U.S. (notoriously, in the Lackwanna Six case), and thus it seems to me at least that we are unwise to ignore it or wave it away, rather than trying to formulate positive ways to deal with it.

If I don’t go along with the author’s conclusions — which were also, of course, his premises — I am a dhimmi, waiting with a stupid, trusting smile on my face to greet our new overlords. Fiddlesticks!

The cover of this book assures me that: “Historically, Islam has enslaved members of all races. It has a complete and detailed doctrine of slavery. A dualistic ethical system makes enslavement an act of good.”

O.K., so let’s see. Last month I was in a ship that docked at Casablanca, which is in a Muslim country. I didn’t bother to get off; but if I had, in which direction should I have headed to get to the slave market? Where is the slave market in Amman? In Istanbul? In Karachi? In Daka? In Kuala Lumpur? What are the prices of slaves in those cities? Can I get a futures contract? Perhaps the author of this book can tell me.

The idea that slavery can only exist in the form of open slave markets in large cities is, to say the least, unfounded, as is the idea that if slavery doesn't exist openly today in Islamic countries, this refutes the idea that Islam condones slavery. It is also interesting that Mr. Derbyshire didn't ask for directions to the slave market in Khartoum. The International Criminal Court recently issued warrants for the arrest of Ahmed Haroun, the minister for humanitarian affairs of Sudan, and Ali Kosheib, a leader of that country’s notorious janjaweed militia. The Sudanese government has refused to hand over the two for prosecution. Charges include murder, rape, torture and “imprisonment or severe deprivation of liberty.” Severe deprivation of liberty – that is, slavery. Egypt’s Al-Ahram Weekly observed that in Sudan, “slavery, sanctioned by religious zealots, ravaged the southern parts of the country and much of the west as well.”

Muslim slavers in the Sudan primarily enslave non-Muslims, and chiefly Christians. According to the Coalition Against Slavery in Mauritania and Sudan (CASMAS), a human rights and abolitionist movement, “The current Khartoum government wants to bring the non-Muslim Black South in line with Sharia law, laid down and interpreted by conservative Muslim clergy. The Black animist and Christian South remembers many years of slave raids by Arabs from the north and east and resists Muslim religious rule and the perceived economic, cultural, and religious expansion behind it.”

The BBC reported in March 2007 that slave raids “were a common feature of Sudan’s 21-year north-south war, which ended in 2005….According to a study by the Kenya-based Rift Valley Institute, some 11,000 young boys and girls were seized and taken across the internal border -- many to the states of South Darfur and West Kordofan….Most were forcibly converted to Islam, given Muslim names and told not to speak their mother tongue.” One modern-day Sudanese Christian slave, James Pareng Alier, was kidnapped and enslaved when he was twelve years old. Religion was a major element of his ordeal: “I was forced to learn the Koran and re-baptised Ahmed. They told me that Christianity was a bad religion. After a time we were given military training and they told us we would be sent to fight.” Alier has no idea of his family’s whereabouts.

Besides being practiced more or less openly today in Sudan and Mauritania, there is evidence that slavery still continues beneath the surface in some majority-Muslim countries as well -- notably Saudi Arabia, which only abolished slavery in 1962, Yemen and Oman, both of which ended legal slavery in 1970, and Niger, which didn’t abolish slavery until 2004. In Niger, the ban is widely ignored, and as many as one million people remain in bondage. Slaves are bred, often raped, and generally treated like animals.

Some of the evidence that Islamic slavery still goes on consists of a spate of slavery cases involving Muslims in the United States. A Saudi named Homaidan Al-Turki was sentenced in September 2006 to 27 years to life in prison, for keeping a woman as a slave in his home in Colorado. For his part, Al-Turki claimed that he was a victim of anti-Muslim bias. He told the judge: “Your honor, I am not here to apologize, for I cannot apologize for things I did not do and for crimes I did not commit. The state has criminalized these basic Muslim behaviors. Attacking traditional Muslim behaviors was the focal point of the prosecution.”

There is plenty more evidence of the persistence of Islamic slavery. I am sorry Mr. Derbyshire is bored, but I do think that in defense of the human rights of the slaves, this problem -- again -- should not be ignored or waved away with a reference to the lack of slave markets in Casablanca, but should be addressed by the UN and human rights organizations.

Derbyshire says a little farther down:

We have a problem for sure; but what would the people who publish these books like us to do about it? Separationism — expel our own Muslims and seal ourselves off from the Moslem world? For goodness’ sake: We can’t even muster the will to expel illegal immigrants from next door. You want us to expel citizens? To half-way round the world? In any case, when I once called one of these folk a separationist, he hotly denied it, and told me, and the rest of the world, that I am an idiot. So whadda they want? Beats me.

"One of these folk" links here to Jihad Watch, and I expect that Mr. Derbyshire is referring to my post here. In reality, as you can see, I took issue with his claim that I supported "bribing foreign Muslims to leave the U.S.A." I think this is a stupid idea, and still think so even though the Sarkozy government is going to try it out in France. It's basic economics: offer money for something, and a supply will be created to meet your demand. If you pay immigrants to leave, more will come, just to get the payment. Some might even turn around and come back to get another payment. Since 2003 I have called for immigration restrictions, and there are any number of ways this could be done, but paying people to leave is not one of them, and I have never advocated it, contrary to Derbyshire's claim.

He goes on:

If finding out the answer involves reading books as boring as this one (let alone as wrist-slittingly boring as the Koran), I’ll stay ignorant, thanks all the same. Idiocy is not a state I aspire to; but if the alternative is plowing through books filled with the ruminations of 7th-century desert mystics, decorated with comments thereon by 21st-century monomaniacs — well, at that point, idiocy starts to look pretty good.

Noted.

And later:

London bombings. A couple of car bombs failed to go off in London. Forgive me for not being very stirred. I was in London when two terrorist bombs actually did go off, one of them just a couple of hundred yards away from me. That was in 1982. It was darn loud, I can tell you. (I was sitting in a diner having lunch. “What the heck was that?” I asked the proprietor, who was making sandwiches behind the counter. “Car bomb, probably,” he said, without looking up. Talk about unflappable.)

Those terrorists were Irish Christians. So I guess I had better get to work trawling through the New Testament to figure out how the Christians plan to conquer the world and enslave me, before it’s too late.

Here is yet another example of the moral equivalence (including Derbyshire's own) that I address in my forthcoming book, Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't (Regnery, August 13). Derbyshire is attempting here to construct a reductio ad absurdum, but it fails for several reasons: the IRA were indeed terrorists, but they did not and could not base their actions on Christian principles, they did not and could not point to Christian religious texts to justify their violence, and they were not working from a broad and deeply rooted Christian legal/theological tradition justifying warfare against unbelievers.

The Islamic jihadists, however, are doing all those things, and sneers and expressions of boredom will do nothing to make them stop.

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35 Comments

The difference between the IRA and these Islamists is that the Irish could negotiate. There is a possibility of an end that leaves both parties intact ... the Irish and the Englis. They had goals and a command structure. Who are we gonna deal with to strike a bargain with these Islamists? Islam wants you dead or converted ... period that is it pretty much. Once you are marked like Britain is that is it. No deals on that one. To want to remain ignorant about this is ... well in one word arrogant. Time will cure this arrogance I do believe.

One more of "The Sky Isn't Falling! The Sky Isn't Falling!" crowd.

A lot of them used to live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Just before the sky turned to boiling primordial plasma.

Merely because Mohammad is a bore (no argument) doesn't mean that you don't need to know his marching orders for homicidal madness.

A lot of people also slogged through Mein Kampf in the 1930's, wishing they hadn't needed to.

A bumpersticker for the author's moped.

Ignorance is bliss-
Until it starts cutting your head off

This guy might be bored but if he meets the five Doctor Deaths from the UK he'll realize this is not Halloween. It's the real thing-complete with nail bombs.

The truth is that Islam is a patriarchal religion in overdrive and many Muslims believe they must stop the Juggernaut, the impact of globalization on Islamic culture, particularly in communication (TV, radio, Internet) and transport. They have to take control of these globalization processes that have resulted from the communication and transport revolutions of the past 50 years or they are doomed. (They are doomed because ideas cannot be stopped-no matter how many unbelievers they kill.) We are not going to be bored in the future. We will live in "interesting times".

Many Muslims realize that they must take control of the communication and transport revolutions that have been emanating in the West. Theirs is the deep hate that is rooted in fear (and symbolically they use the technology to kill the makers of the technology). Muslim rage must never be underestimated. Their entire patriarchal culture is threatened by these revolutions (that follow upon the industrial revolution) but which are invasive of their patriarchal culture. They are very threatened by the communications revolution that now touches every aspect of life.

Once the ummah marks you .... you die or they die it is really that simple. Got that one from a Hindu.

Derbyshire says:

A lot of Arabs, and a few Muslims elsewhere, are mad as hell at the failure of their civilization, and have taken to religion as a way to vent their anger. It’s the failure that’s the issue, not the religion.

Hmmm. On the contrary, I'd say it's not the failure of Islam that we have to fear, but the success.

And I should care... why?
--Derbyshire

No, Derbyshire, you should not care. The problem Robert Spencer (and Center for the Study of Political Islam) is describing will not become a big problem for you; it will be a problem for your kids and their kids.

But who cares what happens in another generation. You'll be dead. It won't be your problem.

Go back to bed.
Sweet dreams.

"I’ll stay ignorant, thanks all the same."

This is astounding. First this person refuses to believe (mockingly, I might add) that muslims enslave people (which was nothing but a slap in the face to every person who ever was/or is in bondage somewhere). Then this person tries to lump islam and christianity together, refusing to even find out their differences. Then this person wants to remain ignorant about everything.

I wouldn't be surprised if this person doesn't bump into walls when they walk, because their elevator obviously isn't getting to the top (if you know what I mean).

This person sounds like your typical liberal-refusing to understand what is going on in the world, and willing to stay ignorant. Personally, I cannot understand people like this. Does this person have a family? Loved ones? Friends? How the hell can this person not care?

Mr. Derbyshire:

I admire you and sometimes download your audio essays, but this "it don't matter to me" speech is unworthy of anyone claiming to have expertise in public policy. Geology and computers and Senate rules --- most everything is largely boring.

Try to read up on the Muslim's crappy religion again. Maybe jihadwatch types overstate the immediate danger, and it is beyond imagining how we can rid ourselves of our new immigrants. But shouldn't we at least understand why we need to act against more of these people coming, as best we can?

"A lot of Arabs, and a few Muslims elsewhere, are mad as hell at the failure of their civilization, and have taken to religion as a way to vent their anger. It’s the failure that’s the issue, not the religion."
-- from Derbyshire's original article

Derbyshire claims to be, in his not-quite-convincing impersonation of Lydia Languish, to be too bored by it all to read either the texts of Islam, or at least to read enough of them to find out what Muslims are taught in mosques and madrasas, and what is everywhere, even outside mosques and madrasas, in societies suffused with Islam, whether in Pakistan or Great Britain or Saudi Arabia or Marseilles, and also presumably too bored to find out about the history of Jihad-conquest of non-Muslim lands, and how remarkably similar was the subsequent treatment of all the non-Muslims conquered, whether Christians and Jews, or Zoroastrians, or Hindus and Buddhists, or any of a number of smaller religious groups that tend to be overlooked or forgotten.

No one is asking him to undertake the task that, for example, Spencer has undertaken in his books that set out the relevant doctrines of Islam and quote chapter and verse, or his more recent book on Muhammad, the central figure in Islam. He doesn't have to spend days studying isnad-chains, or even the reasons given by various muhaddithin for their rankings, as to authenticity, of this or that hadith. But he's got to do a bit more than simply assume that Islam is just like all the other faiths, and that one has no duty to find out something about it.

His astonishing belief that Muslims are "mad as hell" not because they are taught to believe that they have a duty to spread Islam, until it everywhere dominates, and that they are "mas as hell" when the Infidels do not play ball, offer some resistance, and are also "mad as hell" because they have been taught that Islam, by right, should dominate, and Muslims, by right, should rule.

Yet now Muslims come into contact with Infidels constantly, Infidels not submissive to them, but still apparently secure in their own lands, the Bilad al-kufr (Land of Unfaith, or Lands of the Infidelsin a way they did not a hundred years or even fifty years ago, with Infidels -- both because millions of Muslims have been permitted to go and settle in the Lands of the Infidels, deep behind what they, Muslims, have been taught to regard as enemy lines, and so have experienced Infidel societies, where Infidels do not cower as Infidels should, and do everywhere in Dar al-Islam. This, in the Muslim view, is not right, this is not what Infidels should do, not the way they should behave. They need to be taught lesson after lesson until they assume the submissive attitude toward Muslims that, by rights, they should assume.

Furthermore, Muslims in Dar al-Harb can now find out more about the Infidels, about their power and might and their societies -- always distorted, always presented in a malign way, because always viewed through the prism of Islam -- and the steady drip of anti-Infidel propaganda can be disseminated through the technology that is appropriated from those same Infidels -- audiocassettes, videocassettes, satellite televsion, the Internet. Surely it is this news, true and false, about Infidels, that helps to make Muslims "mad."

Finally, there is one point that Derbyshire and others keep missing. If Muslims are "mad" about the "failures of Muslim socities" they are driven most mad by a truth that we can see, but they refuse to, perhaps are incapable, of allowing themselves to see: the failures of their own societies, political, economic, social, moral, and intellectual, are real and easily seen. The continued despotism, despite every effort, as in Iraq, to "bring" democracy, in the Muslim lands, despotism that allows only for a modicum of democracy, and that intermittently, only in two or three places -- Lebanon because of its large and civilizing Christian populaton, and Turkey because of the deliberate and systematic dismantling by Ataturk and those who were true to his program, of Islam as a political and social force. The economic failures of the Islamic world, despite the ten trillion dollars received, merely because of an accident of geology, since 1973 alone, has been obvious as well, and those Arab and Muslim countries and groups that do not have oil rely not on a sharing of wealth from the rich Arabs (no, that wouldn't be right, would it? ) but from the disguised Jizyah of foreign aid from Infidels, that has poured out with such thoughtless profusion by the ruling elites in the United States and Western Europe, heedless of their own taxpayers, and heedless of how the effect of that aid has been only to corrupt the donors into the classic position of dhimmis afraid to stop the payments, and the recipients have assumed the classic attitudes of the Muslims receiving such Jizyah as by right (look at the "Palestinians" who are indignant when the West dares, very temporarily, to suspend such aid -- they call it, those local Arabs, an "economic boycott" or "economic siege" or "economic stranglehold" when the West doesn't keep the tap of endless aid on to the Arabs' satsifaction).

The social failures are or should be obvious. -- There is the fearful condition of non-Muslim minorities, slowly or quickly being driven out everywhere (compare Cairo and Alexandria today with those two cities full of non-Muslims who gave them tone and allure in, say, 1935), Hindus from Bangladesh and Pakistan and Kashmir, Christians in Iraq, in Lebanon, in Egypt, fleeing to the West, Jews from everywhere in the Arab and Muslim lands, fleeing persecution and pogroms. There is the wretched mistreatment of women -- for this read Ayaan Hirsi Ali's "Infidel" and also the testimony of so many others, including the articulate Iranian women who have fled from the Khomeini-and-successors regime, precisely because that regime, unlike the Shah, tried to take Islam seriously.

The intellectual failures, the lack of curiosity about the world, as emblemized in the pitiful number of works translated into Arabic, the miserable condition of Arab and Musllim schooling, so that even in Dar al-Islam, the most advanced members of the Muslim elite, or even those simply Muslims most gifted, always took advantage of Christian schools (see Chalabi and Allawi, attending Jesuit-run Baghdad College, see Lady Ahmad going to a Catholic school in Pakistan, see hideous Edward Said attending Victoria College in Egypt, see wonderful Magdi Allam being educated at a Christian school in Cairo, see see see) are obvious. It is not a genetic problem. Muslims in the West can, if they get out of a society suffused with Islam, can in some areas, chiefly technological rather than tho9se of pure science, flourish. And those who become what they call "cultural Muslims" (i.e., still attached because of filial piety to Islam, still wanly desiring to defend it somehow, still not ready to become full-fledged apostates and hence intellectually and emotionally coherent) can, as long as they are in the Infidel lands, also manage to produce things of value -- as they never could have done so within Dar al-Islam.

This is the main task: to do what escapes John Derbyshire in his quick summary, and to make that connection, for Infidels and for those Muslims who, if they are semi-sincere, will not be able to denty, between the failures of Islamic peoples, and Islam itself, its habit of mental submission, and indeed all the effects of this Total System, that have everywhere been so damaginig, not least to the human potential of those who, through no fault of their own, have been born into Islam.

The instructions in the Koran were not "boring" on September 11, 2001 for the 3,000 people who were MURDERED by the Agents of the Ummah, or for the many thousands of people who are their friends and relatives. The Serbs in Kosovo who are being ethnically cleansed (in slow motion so that the imbeciles in the news media don't notice) are not "bored." The Christians and Animists in Darfur who are running from helicopter gunships or locoweed...uh, I mean...janjaweed thugs are not "bored." Peaceful Buddhists in southern Thailand who are being murdered are not "bored." Etc.......
Derbyshire has his head up his A@@.

You want us to expel citizens?

Maybe you could start by not letting ANY MORE IN!!!!


That would make me happy.

For a start.

Hugh-

And the ones who get higher educations and become doctors end up ramming a Jeep-bomb into the Glasgow airport.

What specifically about their "civilization's failure" drove them to do it, accroding to Mr. Derbybonnet?

Not enough falafel in Gaza?

So, like, John, are you, like, BORED and stuff? Yeah, must really suck having to, like, deal with problems and things. Shyeah.

Mr Derbyshire isn't bored. He is just saying that.

I am not bored either. I have all of Mr Spencers published books, and also have Bostom, Bat Yeor, Fallaci, and my own Koran, which enjoys a repose on its side just under a Bible. I just finished America Alone by Mark Steyn, and I have a huge collection of essays, commentaries and news stories gathered on my computer from sources all over. I'm not bored at all.

I'm not scared either, but I do have a core of serious concern. The more I know, the more concerned I get.

Is the next post accidentally a complete refutation of the Pollyanna-Derbyshire view of Islam? I ask because it's the (countless) Muslim truth-teller I've read. Soon to be ignored by everyone in power.

Sorry, I meant two posts up. Though another 'brave' death threat jihadi doesn't do much for Derb's fantasy world either.

"Thus if Muhammad took women as captives after battles and used them as concubines . . . "

Please don't call them "concubines." That is another Muslim whitewash. Call them what they were and are -- rape victims and sex slaves.

What is wrong with being 'phobic' to something? Nothing.

Freedom of choice and self preservation grant me this right.

The 'Left' runs around saying everyone should have privacy, or the right to individuality, or 'stay out of my womb', or 'I can do with my body as I like'.

So why can't you overlay the same sayings to your choice of 'phobic'? Why can the 'left' tell the 'right' to stay out, and then turn around and demand the we 'come in' to their way of thinking?

The hypocrasy of the 'political correctness' movement is an ideology, an idea and nothing more.

Islamophobic and PROUD of it.

"......If Muslims are "mad" about the "failures of Muslim societies" they are driven most mad by a truth that we can see, but they refuse to, perhaps are incapable, of allowing themselves to see: the failures of their own societies, political, economic, social, moral, and intellectual, are real and easily seen".

Precisely. Many, many non-Muslims now see with a cool head the absurdities of this engine of Imperialism invented by Don Muhammad Corleone of Arabia. They fear and hate the lack of respect for their will-to-dominate culture-and project their own fear and rage on non-Muslims and on many Muslims who see the truth about Muhammad.

Many Muslims are acting like Fredo in the matter ...

http://thegodfathertrilogy.com/gf2/wav/imsmart.wav

Separationism — expel our own Muslims and seal ourselves off from the Moslem world? For goodness’ sake: We can’t even muster the will to expel illegal immigrants from next door. You want us to expel citizens?

Yes.

America has a hard time deporting Hispanics because the majority of them are good people.

That is far different than defining Islam as in violation of the RICO statutes (it is) and giving Muslims a choice between being welcomed as Apostate Citizens or being deported to an Islamic country. The law is already on the books. It is also the most humane solution in the long run. Americans like humane solutions.

I happen to agree with Mr. Derbyshire. It's unclear why the average American needs to immerse himself in this minutiae. During World War II, ordinary Americans didn't spend hours poring over Mein Kampf to see what tidbits they could learn from it. We didn't need to; we were bombing Germany into rubble and once Germany was smashed, Mein Kampf would take care of itself.

Ditto for the Cold War. When I was in school, yes, we read Das Kapital and some of Mao and other Marxist works. But honestly, as long as America had thousands of nuclear missiles pointed at the USSR, and as long as the capitalist U.S. economy continued to outshine the Soviet command economy, it didn't really matter too much to the average American what Marx said about the labor theory of value or whatnot. And I no longer remember a word of Das Kapital. Given the way the Cold War turned out, I don't need to.

In the current struggle, if our leaders could just NAME THE ENEMY instead of falling back on meaningless abstractions like "terror" and "evil," Americans wouldn't have to go figuring it all out for themselves and become Islamic scholars. Just like they didn't need to become Sovietologists or experts in Nazi racial theories.

We are supposed to choose leaders who do their homework about foreign and domestic threats, so we average folks don't have to. A truly competent President would have a primer on political Islam right on the White House website, available for free download.

Dear Mr. Spencer and Mr. Fitzgerald:
Thank you for all your work in helping to develop the intellectual library that will help to frame in the fight against Islam!

In particular my gratitude to Mr. Fitzgerald for his incisive intellect and brilliant prose style as witness above. My only disagreement with him is that I am a Christian. Regardless, I believe he is correct that Islam as presently constituted will never succeed at anything except producing human misery and oil. The conflict over slavery which institution was deeply held by the South brought us the U.S. Civil War, and so a war between the West and Islam is inevitable. May it come early!

Actually, the sooner the Muslims start attacking us here in the U.S. again, the sooner Americans will get fed up with it and do something. Obliterate Mecca? Any ideas?

We have a moral obligation to not let this devolve upon our grandchildren.

"A couple of car bombs failed to go off in London. Forgive me for not being very stirred."

???

He uses multisyllabic words, which is pretty unusual for a moron. But the words themselves show he IS a moron. "Bombs not go off. Me not scared. No big deal."

Uh, jerkface, WHY were there bombs outside that nightclub? Do you suppose there will be more? What if possibly one DOES go off? What if your daughter or wife is there? Would that finally get your lazy ass's attention?

STOOO-PUD.

Steven L. is quite an interesting poster. Worth reading.

"I happen to agree with Mr. Derbyshire. It's unclear why the average American needs to immerse himself in this minutiae."
from poster above

Because our elected representatives and the mainstream media are in cahoots to deceive the American public that Islam is a "benign" spiritual force, a religion like other religions,and not an ideology far more malignant and invasive than Communism or Nazism.

Steven L: "I happen to agree with Mr. Derbyshire. It's unclear why the average American needs to immerse himself in this minutiae. During World War II, ordinary Americans didn't spend hours poring over Mein Kampf to see what tidbits they could learn from it. We didn't need to; we were bombing Germany into rubble and once Germany was smashed, Mein Kampf would take care of itself."

Yes but of course Derbyshire doesn't mean anything like what you mean by your statement. He means that most Muslims are peaceful and that all those ancient texts are irrelevant and he apparently also means that there is absolutely nothing we can do about it all anyway and so we might as well keep a stiff upper lip while the occasional terrorist attack goes off.

Some of his language is downright insulting:

"To prove this, someone who really needs to get a life has spent months picking apart the holy texts of Islam.."

I certainly hope that many Muslims got a taste of the condescending attitude of one of our liberal elites in that line towards matters that many of them happen to think are rather important, seeing as how they spend so much time themselves studying those texts. Certainly the implication there is that Muslims themselves ought to "get a life" themselves instead of taking their stupid religion seriously.

Of course I guess one could make Derbyshire's case about the study of history too - it's all, well, such "ancient history" and we sophisticated moderns have better things to do.

I like Miss_Anthrope's retort to this horse's ass:

"So, like, John, are you, like, BORED and stuff? Yeah, must really suck having to, like, deal with problems and things."

After that line I'll forever think of the guy as John "Valley Girl" Derbyshire.

"Idiocy is not a state I aspire to.."

On the contrary, it's obviously a state you've already achieved.

LOL... hahahahahaha.

John Derbyshire... not exactly a liberal, is he?

NOW will any liberal bashers, and "liberal media" bashers finally sit up and take notice?

If anyone wants to see a great article in defense of Israel (written by me) at a liberal website, write me.

kj

fanorollins@yahoo.com

kj - on this issue he sure as hell is. You appear to be completely ignorant of the fact that liberalism has already WON in the west. Or do you now want to make a case that big government, high spending, open-borders, Wilsonian foreign policy president Bush and his supporters - are "conservatives"?

Steven L. said

It's unclear why the average American needs to immerse himself in this minutiae. During World War II, ordinary Americans didn't spend hours poring over Mein Kampf to see what tidbits they could learn from it.

In WWII and the Cold War, our government identified the danger, identified the enemy, and took strong pro-active steps to protect U.S. citizens. They did not invite masses of Nazi Germans or Soviet Russians to our country, so they could study at our universities, work in our hospitals, be in charge of security at our ports, act as interpreters for the FBI, etc. They did not spend their energies trying to convince the people of the U.S. that Nazi Germany were our staunch allies, that there were only a few "radical extremist Nazis", and that the "vast majority" of Germans were "moderate Nazis" who share our values and beliefs. They did not send billions in foreign aid to Germany and the Soviet Union in the hopes of winning over their hearts and minds.

If our government ever returned to that level of common sense nowadays, as soon as I recovered from my heart attack I'd be happy to join Derbyshire and Steven L. in blissful ignorance. There's alot more interesting things out there in the universe besides the rantings of a 7th Century pedophile/murderer/caravan raider. Trust me.

I think the claim to boredom is an affectation. It serves several purposes for Dhimmis. There is, of course, the moral relativism argument. Thus, one hears that "there were more automobile accidents claiming more lives in Israel than did suicide bombers." So motor vehicle accidents are afforded the moral equivalence of mass murderers -- that reflects an interesting set of priorities, a certain set of values, or a lack of a basic understanding of moral precepts. Given such bizarre "logic" one would next side with the serial killers, claiming that, after all, they take far fewer lives than the average flood...so, why "waste" resources on courts, lawyers, and prisons? (If anyone requires an explanation as to why police exist, or why they spend countless hours searching for a killer and don't become "bored", then go elsewhere...you're beyond help.)

Next, the argument of "I'm bored" undermines those who take the Islamist threat seriously. It is a defeatist attitude, suggesting that Jihadists just can't be stopped, so why try?

Research should (must really) be free to explore any and all phenomena. Nothing should be ruled "off limits." Given that this is the case, there will (obviously) be research projects which will not be to everyone's "cup of tea" and be considered "boring" or "uninteresting" by some. but, that does not mean such research should be stopped. it might be "boring" to research the flight dynamics of the household fly, but that says nothing about the actual value of the research. The real "so what? or who cares what you think?" should be addressed to those who say, "it's boring." Well, we don't care what you think. Who's made Derbyshire the ultimate arbitrator of what's important and what's not? I and numerous others can all tell Derbyboy where to stick it.

Hey John Derbyshire! You are an uninformed moron and dangerous to the human race! Get a clue!

Next, the argument of "I'm bored" undermines those who take the Islamist threat seriously. It is a defeatist attitude, suggesting that Jihadists just can't be stopped, so why try? Posted by J.S.

I don't read him that way. He strikes me as the typical Western naif; the true nature of islam as depicted by Western scholars is so horrendous that it couldn't possibly be true. No religion could be that evil and threatening, otherwise it wouldn't be a religion. Instead of spending hours of his valuable time poring over boring islamic canonical texts, he chooses to trivialize the entire matter. He doesn't strike me as having a defeatist attitude, but rather the arrogant assurance that if islam should prove to be a primitive, predatory death cult, we will tame and civilize the muslim beasts and presto, problem solved!

This guy is somewhat of a paradox, having an assorted and disparite array of opinions about major political and social issues. He is a mathematician first, and has written several books on the subject. In his world, the islamic threat is probably very obscure and distant, a mere nuisance that might eventually have to be addressed, but not an urgent issue in his life.

Seconding 'special guest', on "the rantings of a 7th Century pedophile/murderer/caravan raider". In translation, stripped of 90% of its superficial linguistic charm (rhymes, word play, etc, which I think Robert Spencer says somewhere are quite clever and even 'beguiling') the Qur'an is one of the most boring, baffling, chaotic pieces of writing I have ever read. Frankly, the secular/ erotic '1001 Nights' is a much better read than the Qur'an - though even in the 'Nights' the deadly fatalism of folk Islam that pervades many of the tales, steadily palls upon the Western reader.

It's not about the evils of translation, though Muslims like to pretend it is. The contrast between the translated Qur'an and the translated Bible is striking. In translation, having suffered exactly the same 'loss of surface glitter' as the Qur'an, the Bible remains coherent and gripping. The power is still there, because it isn't just in the externals, it's in the thinking behind it. The Psalms, or for that matter, 1 Corinthians 13, leave the 'poetic' bits of the Quran simply for dead.

But, seconding j.s. - 'research should be free to explore any and all topics.' Thank God for all those people like Joseph Schacht and the other great Orientalists before him, who did make it their business to wade through all the dull - and soul-destroying - details of Islamic texts and history, and even to translate the books so the rest of us could know what was lurking there (Know Thine Enemy). Or, nowadays, Spencer blogging the Qur'an; and Bat Ye'or who plumbed, as she put it, "the abyss of oppression" when she immersed herself in the testimony of the myriad victims of jihad and dhimmitude. I think Bat Yeor found it a mind-wrenching experience, but if she had not done it, we'd be even worse off than we are.

We don't need to "expel citizens" we just need to ban Islam. If they want to be atheists or join another religion fine, if not - leave.

More on the trivialization of the Islamist threat. I have also read statisticians who come out with figures which seemingly demonstrate that one's chances of being struck by lightning are far, far greater than dying of a terrorist attack. But, really, these types of arguments are based (imo) on completely false assumptions.

They apparently believe that terrorist attacks are a static phenomenon. In reality, of course, they are anything but "static." The terrorist (like any living organism) adapts and learns. So just because the foiled London bombers were unable to successfully detonate the car bombs, doesn't mean they are incapable of learning. Thus every time a threat is ignored, played down and/or trivialized, it increases the likelihood of a far more devastating attack. Those responsible for maintaining vigilance must be supported, not undermined. (I'm not suggesting that the ordinary citizen become super-paranoid -- it's just that the threat is real, the potential is there, and we, as citizens, must support the counter-terrorist policies.)

I think, also, that (in many ways) this should not become a "numbers game." I think it's morally wrong to claim that "I'll only become interested in terrorist attacks when my chances of dying from a terrorist become greater than my chances of being struck by lightning." Being struck by lightning is not equivalent to being murdered. (although the moral relativists, unfortunately some of them statisticians, do tend to make this very claim).

And I second the poster who recognizes and appreciates Bat Ye'or's contributions to the study (research) of what Islam has done to its minority populations -- documenting the dhimmitude and subjugation of millions under Islamic rule -- studies which no one else has had the courage, patience, and dedication to undertake. We should all be grateful for her work.







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What they’re saying about Robert Spencer
“My comrade-in-arms, my pal, my buddy.”
Oriana Fallaci

“Robert Spencer incarnates intellectual courage when, all over the world, governments, intellectuals, churches, universities and media crawl under a hegemonic Universal Caliphate’s New Order. His achievement in the battle for the survival of free speech and dignity of man will remain as a fundamental monument to the love of, and the self-sacrifice for, liberty.”
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“A national treasure...The acclaimed scholar of Islam.”
Frank Gaffney, Center for Security Policy

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Brad Thor, novelist

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Ashraf Ramelah, Voice of the Copts

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Al-Qaeda’s Adam Gadahn, “Azzam the American”



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