Karzai blasts NATO over civilian deaths

He needs to go back to the days in 2001 when he was rescued by US forces from certain death at the hands of the taliban, following the execution of Abdul Haq.

Nonetheless, time to leave.

So leave it to the Afghans then. Perhaps they can defeat an abundance of jihad with an abundance of caution.

""You don't fight a terrorist by firing a field gun 30-some kilometers away into a target. That is definitely surely bound to cause civilian casualties."

....sure you do....it is very safe, besides, those "civilians" are housing the terrorists and probably are members in their local terrorist group...These same "civilians" often participate in ambushes on coalition forces...

...not to forget...the "civilians" never report terrorist activities....

"Karzai's comments came as dozens of militants were reportedly killed in southern and eastern Afghanistan in the latest clashes with U.S.-led foreign troops and Afghan forces."

.....seee....long range artillery works well....

Not sorry to be so cynical, but he IS a Muslim and they ARE pushing for Sharia in toto there so why the hell would he support a kufir as they are there only to foot the bill and be killed?

Doesn't anyone study history?
It has always been this way

I doubt if we have ONE honest Muslim ally anywhere
and it is time that a lot of people woke up!!
To even your nice neighbourly Muslim, koranic blood is thicker than any relationship with or debt owed to a kufir.

MisIslamist, you're not cynical –- perhaps pessimistic, but certainly realistic. His Islamic brothers come first even if they are having a family squabble at the moment.

Karzai is a weak ruler, which at least means he is no despot, for good or ill. His main interest is in doing what modern rulers of Afghanistan have always tried to do, which is to inveige outsiders into bringing aid to the country. The Americans thus have been told, and do believe, that if they build roads and schools and so on and so forth, this will somehow -- no one explains how -- not only manage to "transform" Afghanistan (for more on this o'erweeing and silly idea, see Rory Stewart), but make the Muslims of Afghanistan friendlier. Nonesense. All the evidence suggests that greater access to the outside world, to the world of audiocassettes, videocassettes, satellite television, all the greater movement that American-built roads supply, all the access to new and better weapons, will only cause the people in Afghanistan (not "the Afghani people" which is a different and doubtful construct) to be more easily subjected to the al-Jazeera messengers from outside, and what's more, more inclined to participate in Jihad.

Better to do nothing, nothing to change them, nothing to "transform" them, nothing to lift them out of their permanent hardscrabble existence which is the fate of all Muslim peoples, with their habit of mental submission and inshallah-fatalism, unless they are rescued, as so many have been, either by the manna of oil and gas deposits, or by the Jizyah of foreign aid that so many Muslims have managed to extract from Infidels, rather than going, as they should, to their fellow rich members of the umma -- why isn't Saudi Arabia now contributing ten or twenty billion to the "reconstruction" of Afghanistan? Wasn't it Saudi Arabia that spent billions to keep Afghanistan from control by those Infidel Russians? But of course the Saudi interest is not on behalf of people in Afhganistan, but only against their falling under Infidel domination. The same is true for the Arab aid given to the "Palestinians" -- given only for weapons, and as rewards to the families of suicide bombers and other terrorists, and not to improve the daily lot of those fellow members of the umma, to whom loyalty is supposedly owed -- but is merely a negative loyalty, a loyalty that works not for fellow Muslims but only against Infidels.

The investment in Afghanistan will come to nothing. It attracts less attention because it seems acceptable, but that is only because we are all silently making the comparison with the fantastic folly of Iraq, and on that scale, Afghanistan is hardly to be complained about.

People are not as malleable as the naive Administration thinks. Nor has the case been made that Western aid, endless aid, will do anything to make the Muslims now in Afghanistan less hostile or less of a threat. It will only make them better able to participate, in whatever way they can, in what is a world-wide Jihad, conducted with different instruments and with different levels of intensiy depending on conditions, and with different local targets -- targets of those who are Infidels, or are seen as collaborators of the Infidels.

Up yours Karzai. America has left a very, very small footprint compared to what could be.

One of the reasons so many Americans have died, is because of suppressed operations in order to keep Afghan civilian casualties to a minimum.

What should have happened in Afghanistan, as well as Iraq, was massive carpet bombings followed by a complete invasion - crushing everything in its path.

But we are too civilized and the Bush administration thinks Afghan/Iraqi lives are more important than American lives.

Another problem with Karzia - as well as Musharrif - is they are dancing on the edge of a razor. Taking in American dollars by the pallet load while sucking up to the terrorists in order to stay alive to spend it.

We should give both of those scumbags a set time limit to produce - other wise remove our protection and let the taliban have them.

Then watch Maliki piss his pants.

"The disproportionate use of force to a situation and the lack of coordination with the Afghan government is causing these casualties," Karzai said.

Yep, Taliban casualties caused by lack of information that the Afghan government can pass on to their buddies... good going.

Keep up the good work.

"The disproportionate use of force to a situation and the lack of coordination with the Afghan government is causing these casualties," Karzai said.

So the government can forewarn the terrorists in time to find a group of civilians to hide behind.

How about we just take our army and billions in aid and come home.

GW keeps saying "we are fighting them there so we don't have to find them here. . .I think we'd do better fighting them here." We could fight to win, and we wouldn't have to pay as much jizya in the process. Home field advantage and all.

Somehow, I see the Afghans killing even more civilians if they were the ones fighting the Taliban, deliberately or otherwise. Karzai should be grateful for the foolish infidels bending over backwards to avoid being overly harsh while securing his regime.

But then again, Islamania has no concept of gratitude.

Let Karzai handle Afghanistan so our troops can come home, even if, within 5 minutes of announcing US troop-withdrawal, Karzai goes hysterical with "Afghanistan will sink into lawlwssness, chaos and perhaps civil war", there should ne no turning back.

The United States has spent countless years and Dollars developing this Weapon System. He can expect us to use it irreguardless of what he says.

The whole point is to not have US need to get too close and Personel. If Karzai doesn't like it then he can just send his own forces in to do the reach out and touch someone routine.

He must be appealing to the Europeans with the whole "disproportional" nonsence.

I suppose Karzai would be more comfortable if Nato conducted operations on Donleys with Hardtack and Jerky in their pockets. While trying to be proficent with the Flintlock and Powder Horn. Use Mirrors and Smoke Signals to communicate.

Of course. all the other benifits of modern life should be provided to the Afgan People. That goes without saying.

What a Heart warming story today on National Propaganda Radio. About the last Jew In Kabul. It almost sounded like a good life. Well, as long as he didn't act Jewish, Show he was Jewish, Say he was Jewish, Not let anyone know your Jewish...

It didn't sound like he was going to have any Jewish Neighbors in the forseable future, if ever.

Afganistain has all the problems it does simply because there is still at least one Jew left in the Country. How stubborn and selfish can this dude be to stay where he is, and prevent the rightfull development of a whole Country?

What is really funny is that most Muslims think that they are ripping off the west by taking all the overseas aid and social security in western countries.

What the poor fools don't realise is that we are giving it to them because we feel so sorry for them for being such pathetic human beings with a doglike attitude towards their religion and absolutely no idea nor desire to even get along with themselves.

Even the Caliphate never produced anything that it didn't steal or loot or force its slaves to make. Muslims have always been basket cases even at the height of Islam's "success" and if you check up on why the caliphate declined it is because that once they could not longer subsidise their lifestyle with loot and slaves from the west and for the first time in history had to depend upon their OWN resources, they collapsed like a house of cards.

Muslims: the mosquitoes or leeches of the world.

Karzai can go to hell for all l care. l know there are brave Afgan men and women who have done more for their country, than that pompous politicians. too many Canadians have died and wounded to be treated by such a poor leader as Karzai. Karzia needs to be replaced by someone who is more daring and will challenge his people to bet out of the 8th century.

“Muslims: the mosquitoes or leeches of the world.”

Their prophet told them to lie. Their jihadists lie, and hide behind children and women’s skirts, or inside burkas, their imams lie, their conspiracies paranoia are lies, what a pathetic bunch of liars. These Muslim jihadists represent the worst of humanity, what a despicable low bunch. So if we kill a few here and there, good riddance to bad rubbish.

I'd cut Karzai some slack here. My guess is that his remarks were meant for his domestic audience, to show that he is not a U.S. puppet, and have no significance beyond that. There are some things any national leader has to do to remain viable politically, and one of those is to express outrage at the death of citizens.

Jihadists hide and fight within "civilian" areas....there is simply nothing that can be done about avoiding killing non-combatants short of surrendering.

Karzai isn't stupid, he knows this, yet makes that statement? NATO should say fine, you're right, we are leaving good luck.

But then again, that would make far too much sense for the world we live in.

Oh and I am a proud supporter of the "disproportionate" force club :D

Why are we in Afghanistan anyway? Oh yes, fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them in the "homeland".

BTW, listening to Rush...he's practically screaming about how there is no sectarian war, no religious war, and no civil war in Iraq. ALL the muslim-on-muslim and muslim-on-kuffr fighting is due to Al Queda. He says Al Queda In Iraq is phony, it's just Al Queda faking us out (whatever that means- CB).

Civilians can lose their status as "civilians" if they are aiding and abetting armed "militants." Being labeled a "civilian" is not an absolute...it depends on the "civilians'" actions.

I think Karzai is making such statements so as to appease his critics (among them the Taliban), or to demonstrate that he can stand up to the NATO forces.

There was a report issued recently which says that not enough support for the Afghan mission is being made by certain countries -- one of the wimp-out countries is France. (Canada is currently going above and beyond most other NATO countries.)

The lives of uniformed troops are not worth less than any civilian in Afghanistan, man , woman or child.

I was taking to my young son a few weeks ago. Typical alpha male going through puberty. We got talking about war and why they are won and lost. I told him that the one who wins is the one with the longest and sharpest pointed stick and was willing to wield it ruthlessly. He asked me to explain what I meant. I mentioned Agincourt where the 5,000 English long bowmen defeated 20,000 French knights. I pointed out that a B29 bomber was a very long stick and an atomic bomb was a very sharp point, metaphorically speaking. He got my point. We Brits fought 3 wars against Afghanistan 1842 1876 and 1919 we lost all of them because we didn't have the longest pointed stick. The Afghans picked us off with their long range Jezail musket, and disappeared into the background. The American colonists did the same thing to us with the Kentucky rifle, in that misunderstanding we had with each other sometime around the 1770s.
I was up there in the North west frontier provinces many years ago before the Russians made the same mistake we British made. The terrain is some of the toughest in the world to fight over and they are some of the toughest ignorant independent sons of bitches you could every wish to meet. In Peshwar the town on the Pakistani side of the Khyber pass Hash was freely on sale I don't just mean Kilos I mean tons and you could buy any type of hand weapon for a few dollars. Even then you didn't go through the Khyber pass unless you went in a long convoy of cars. By the way it was peaceful then.
An accurate artillery piece with range of 30 miles is a modern day equivalent of the Kentucky rifle a longer sharper pointed stick.
America and the Allies wont win of cause, all you will be able to do is subdue them, and call it a victory. A policy of hearts and minds is also waste of time, all they have understood is naked force. To do that you will need a general with a name like Sherman who really knew how to win a war.

Holger Dansker, thanks for your post.

With the jihadists hiding among the civilians - what else are the NATO to do? Watch the jihadists slaughter others as they did in Eastern Europe and in other places? We all know that the muslims will fight among the civilians, use them as human shields, and if they die - they will use the civilians again - as propaganda - to claim 'victimhood'.

I say that we all need to tell Karzai to shut his cake hole, or we will say goodbye. We will see how well Karzai likes his cake hole to be among the living.

Until islam/muslims change - we can expect more of this and all the PC in the world will not stop it, but make it worse for us if we keep pursuing political correctness.

Civilian deaths are a sad but necessary aspect of any violent confrontation.

Karzai must comprehend the tenuous nature of his leadership.

Is there a real reason that we allowed sharia law to be the basis of the Afhgan and Iraqi constitutions other than stupidity ?

Seriously is there a reason we allowed this to happen.

Were we accomodating muslim advisors, or Saudis, or Grover Norquist or whomever?

Why did this happen ?

Why did we allow this to happen ?

hello ya'll,
OT: sorry to bother you great and thoughtful people but i have just started posting in other forums and i am utterly suprised on two fronts.

first the amount of america bashing is at a level, well hell i cant even think of a witty comment, but is is really high.

secondly trying to get someone to have a discussion useing facts within context and not reduce to name calling and worse labeling,i.e. hatespeech, xenophope, ect, is nearly impossible.

my question is should i even try?

funny thing is that i was called a xenophobic orientalist, and i'm of scandinavian descent living in californian. sorry for the OT but i respect your guy's and gal's opinions since this site seems to have a high degree of thought going on. thanks.

"You don't fight a terrorist by firing a field gun 30-some kilometers away into a target."

Then tell the infidels to go home and let your holy sharia handle the terrorists. Or will it? Frankly, sharia has shown itself to have a more dismal track record handling terrorists (unless it just redefines them as "freedom-fighters" and leaves it at that). So much for "Allah Knowing Best".

19thgenamerican:

Your time would be better spent reading Nick Cohen's excellent book, "What's Left -- How Liberals Lost Their Way" rather than arguing with the american bashers, or at least you will be much better equipped to take them apart.

If you decide to do the latter, stand back and see if they accuse you of being a Jew, Zionist or whatever.

"You don't fight a terrorist by firing a field gun 30-some kilometers away into a target. That is definitely surely bound to cause civilian casualties."

Well, Hamid, tell those ‘terrorists’ to come out from behind their wives' Burqas and fight like real men.

19thgenamerican, this website is one of the best. Check out the archives too if you need to check out what has been going on in the past. Great articles and it keeps us all up to date as to what is happening around this world that you will never see in the mainstream media - sometimes Fox news will cover it and sometimes they don't.

Also check out http://jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/ it is another great site.

I also have another personal favorite: http://sheikyermami.com/

I agree with the comments of Hugh and Holger. I've been watching Karzai for a while and believe that -- assuming that there is such a thing -- he is a well-intentioned advocate of "just sharia government" in Afgh and harbors little ill will toward the kuffars who are propping him up. But he is a weak leader with little authority among his people, and tries to buy some respect with pronouncements against the NATO forces. He's been making these pathetic statements for some time, and I don't think he realises how lame they are.

From another perspective, one has to admit that his statements ring true in a facile, platitudinal way: you shouldn't kill innocent civilians in order to ultimately protect those citizens, so it's rather easy to make these blanket assertions and come off as some sort of moral police. What is not so easy is to clearly articulate a strategy for destroying the jihadists and their infrastructure, given their current tactics, that doesn't endanger civilians or use asymmetric force.

Actually I can go along with not endangering civilians -- if that were possible -- but it's blind ignorance to try to constrain the forces on the side of justice to symmetrical responses to the forces on the side of monomaniacal tyranny. This is not a soccer match!

I think Karzai understands the following, but has not the will to declare the point publicly (something which places his value as an ally into serious question, in my mind):

The NATO forces cannot guarantee the safety of civilians as long as Qaeda and Tali homocidal maniacs are on the loose, and should therefore not be blamed for civilian deaths. Knowing some of the folks over there in the Canadian army I can say that, for sure, there is gut-wrenching, head-hanging guilt in the NATO camps over every civilian harmed by the conflict -- the LAST THING THEY NEED is some self-serving lame-duck leader to wag his fingers and treat them like they have no conscience, or that he holds some level of moral superiority over these people who lay their lives on the line every day to help him and his countrymen build a peaceful society where there has not been one.

What IS needed is an outright, uncompromising condemnation, in English, Arabic, Farsi and Urdu making clear the bankruptcy of the terrorists who use human shielding, brainwashed child suicide bombers, who target defenseless civilians -- seniors, women and children -- and target for destruction all the expensive infrastructure and relief efforts of the generous west.

It would be a brave move on Karzai's part -- he is not in a position to publicly declare, in less uncertain terms, his admiration for and solidarity with the work of the kuffar -- but it is absolutely essential if this battle is to be won and civilians protected from further bloodshed.

The main reason the Taliban et al get away with using civilian shields and targetting civilians in this insurrection is because the "moral high ground" is continually surrendered to them by the very voices that should be pulling that rug out from under them. Every civilian death is blamed, one way or another, on the kuffar! Why? Even those who die because of being in the way of kuffar fire, or because of precautions against the terrorist actions at checkpoints are ultimately the responsibility of the terrorists.

When Karzai et al show that they the testicles needed to place blame for these atrocities on the righful owners of that blame, then we will see civilian deaths rapidly decrease -- for if there's one thing the Taliban won't live with it's losing their popular support base -- grassroots support built on the mythology that they represent some sort of heroic return to high moral values, and which is propped up by these bankrupt statements of spineless leaders who aren't prepared to call a spade a spade.

dgene, I think that not only were they ignorant then when they allowed sharia law in - they are still ignorant. We still don't have a correct term for this war - it is a war against a tactic - gee! what if they change their tactics! (pssst, they use another tactic called da'wa, but don't tell the Pentagon or our politicians - it might hurt that little brain cell they pass around).

I have sent many of them pleadings to read the koran and hadiths, even the FBI and Pentagon. I have yet to see any indication that anyone cracked open a book or website. Our Congress hates Bush more than they want to do anything else and have sleep overs and pizza. And many from the Democrat side want to be President. Geesh, they can't do anything as a Senator and now they want to be President?!!

Mr. Karzai:

By any standard, OSAMA BIN LADEN IS A CIVILIAN!!

AYMAN AL-ZAWAHIRI IS A CIVILIAN!!!

Every member of al Qaeda is a civilian.

They don't wear uniforms and they don't fight for a state.

Tell us how we are supposed to know the difference. If civilians are with the terrorists, that is their choice. They feed them, they shelter them, they protect them, they hide them from authorities. If "innocent" civilians are willing to make their bed with the likes of Osama, then they should be prepared to lie in it. If you are prepared to defend them then it's clear you don't need foreign troops helping you.

Are you with us or are you against us?

Karzai is probably coming, or has come, to the conclusion that we aren't going to prop him up forever. Perhaps he hopes that by running political interference on behalf of the Taliban today, they will spare his life in the future when we leave and they take Afghanistan over again.

These weren't true followers of NATO , NATO forbids the killing of Innocent-Civilians and the NATO Charter states that "If you kill just one innocent civilian it's as if you killed all of Humanity" .

NATO is based on Peace and Love , its Charter must be read in English to fully understand it and Muslims can not just cherry-pick verses out of Context merely for the sake of Condemning all of NATO based on the actions of a few people that hijacked the Peaceful Organization for their Political agenda.

NATO means Peace , and anyone that offends it or questions it will be killed under the NATO Blasphemy Laws for those smearing the Peacefull
and Merciful teachings .

BTW

Here's a link to Robert Spencer's interview
on a Toronto Radio show and Tarek Fatah calls in to suddenly defend Islam instead of Fatah's usual outrage about the Jihadists and Shariah Law proponents that smear the Peaceful teachings of Muhammed.

http://www.640toronto.com/john_oakley/john_oakley_audio.cfm?rem=67075&jor=67075#video

Please don't be fooled by this man and his Arafat tactic to say one thing to his Muslims Brothers in private while he changes masks for his MSM interviews .
It was in October of 2001 that Fatah wrote a piece in the Toronto Star newspaper where he spoke about the Death Threats by these Shariah law thugs that are allowed into canada , he said that he keeps a set of packed suitcases near the front door in case he must flee a bomb threat to his House .
BUT , it wasn't long before he switched to his tirades about the Evil-West and how Peaceful Muslims are targets for racial profiling and Islamophobia merely to appease the USA and George Bush .
The pendulum began to swing the other way when Fatah tried to cash in on the Anti-War feelings over Global Terrorism which was his main Platform for entering the Political arena in Canada , Fatah plays both sides by pretending to support the fight against the Hijackers of Islam that smear the image of peace and yet he preaches to Muslims about unfair Profiling and oppression of Muslims in canada being blamed for what a few twisted followers of Islam have done.

...it's also typical pro-enemy propaganda by the commie news network.
Bad enough karzais sourpuss ignoramic comments (anyone in the military knows, good or bad, this kind of thing happens) implying firing a cannon blindly from 30km away...he canNOT be that damned stupid...but that's not the crux...
THE crux is this...if it were US troops doing this, commie news network calls them "us troops" and revels in it until their hammer'n'sickle hombres in elected office (thanks to THEIR master who bought & paid for them) indict our troops for anything under the sun...but if "us troops" are NOT in the area, they fall back on the usual backup plan by calling them "US led-"

They've been pulling this stunt for years now, and nobody's called their traitorous asses on it. That's called aiding and abetting the enemy.
If there's a legit gripe by the locals on something, report it for the right reasons...CNN does NOT, and never has...and it marginalizes even legit complaints...like the boy who cries wolf.

Another problem with Karzia - as well as Musharrif - is they are dancing on the edge of a razor. Taking in American dollars by the pallet load while sucking up to the terrorists in order to stay alive to spend it.

We should give both of those scumbags a set time limit to produce - other wise remove our protection and let the taliban have them.

Then watch Maliki piss his pants.

Posted by: infidel!

Karzia learned it from the Saudis who have always mooched the behinds of terrorists to maintain their power whilst at the same time, being protected by the US to keep the oil flowing to the US companies, etc. Meanwhile, they badmouth the 'Great Satan' and build their evil demonic religion over here.

Are we defending American dollar hegemony or democracy?

Don’t get me wrong has a Brit who respects America and has worked for its military at a technical level I am invested in America. My dad is in Iraq as we speak fitting armour. Actually he’s probably asleep in his hooch, but he will be at work in about four hours.

But did we roll over Saddam because he was trying to sell oil in anything other than dollars? Are we going to roll over Iran because they are trying to do the same?

If dollar hegemony is the reason for Iraq, then is Afghanistan a sideshow?

A: No, no, and no...but very valid questions.
The oil contracts went to EU & chinese companies (which shoot down the "it's about oil!" bit, it's about who controls it, not the commodity itself).

If dollar hegemony is the reason for Iraq, then is Afghanistan a sideshow?

Posted by: The Other Mert

Good question. Maybe Afghanistan is profitable since they have all those poppy fields?

Iran just told Japan that they have to buy their oil in Yen now.

Turkey is lining the northern border of Iraq. Syrian troops are in Lebanon and importing fighters into Lebanon and Iraq.

I feel that the globalists and their puppets (our politicians) are getting ready for another major war - this one in Iran. Our kid's blood in exchange for the oil they want to run their chinese factories.

Wanna see something that REALLY SUCKS?

Check out just how loyal corporate America is to the American workers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

yep I understand that, but the EU and Chinese are paying in dollars?

I think we are coming from different directions here. You mention globalists and their puppets (our politicians) and I mention the fact that every male in my immediate family can repair a Humvee, Deuce or Bradley. Even though we are all Brits.

If dollar hegemony is the reason then I say fair enough. Without money America can’t exist, without America Britain won’t exist, we will be swallowed up by the Europeans.

Afghan President Hamid Karzai is in a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't position and he probably does feel for the Afghan civilians killed. Doesn't Bush feel for the Americans killed in Afghanistan and Iraq? Well, maybe not as much.

It is seldom at all easy, but "we" should try to be more careful.

It also does not help to destroy many Afghans livelihood of growing poppies.

To be honest, I have some sympathy for Karzai on this issue. Americans are perfectly capable of blowing up their own allies in so-called "friendly-fire" incidents, so why would they be any more careful not to blow up afghans?

On the wider issue, the international community (if such a thing exists) has caught a bear in Afghanistan. You know the joke? "I've caught a bear!" "Bring him here then." "He won't come." "Well come here yourself." "He won't let me..."

The trouble is, we can't allow Afghanistan to go back to being a haven for every Islamic nut job on the planet. The only successful counterinsurgency war I can recall being fought was the British in Malaya, but I don't know enough about it to draw many parallels. I wonder whether NATO have anyone sitting down and studying it to see what lessons can be learned?

"... a disproportionate use of force..."

Say, I like the sound of that. Can we have some of that in Iraq? Or does saying that make me a 'warmonger'?

I think we did alright in Oman too? They do seem to like us Brits.

yep I understand that, but the EU and Chinese are paying in dollars?

Posted by: The Other Mert

For the moment. Remember, we set it up that way so that foreign banks would have to hold (buy) a certain amount of American Dollars to buy their oil. This propped up the dollar.

Now that Iran is demanding payment in other currencies (the Europeans will probably have to buy in Euros soon), foreign banks will start selling off their dollars and replacing in the currency that will buy oil. Europeans will toss us to the wind eventually. Japan asked what they could do but buy in Yen? They felt they have no choice.

The dollar is at its weakest against the GBP at the moment (in 26 years). The UK are our friends but they are constantly being pressured to turn their backs on us in favor of Europe.

As for your original question - I'm not sure the purpose of Afganistan - unless it was a strategic first step to an eventual re-division of the ME.

Oh, and as for China...they are tied to us economically for the moment (all our traitor US corporations moving over there for cheap labor) so they do not want to damage our economy too fast. This will change - since even they (China) are starting to outsource to Vietnam for cheaper labor.

Watch and see...they too will disconnect from our currency and eventually favor Europe, which is becoming stronger economically.

Globalisation sucks and only benefits fat cats.

So when can the US divest itself of its defense pact and let the Saudis turn to China for help against Iran? Aren't the Chinese building a navy? They can patrol the Persian Gulf. Americans will soon be broke. We can't afford all this military projection. The world should rejoice at this outcome.

You gotta admit that Mr Phillips is a snazzy Dresser.
I don't doubt that his remarks were indeed meant for domestic consumption and not the international audience.
We get so little news from the Frontier regions in Afghanistan. Most of the areas reporters will not go into or on missions with the Military and I can assure you the treasonous scum aren't wanted either.
There is a lot more fighting going on than we hear about. I was talking to a Ssgt from there the other day and the stories he told was much more brutal and uplifting than what we are treated to via the media.
The Taliban /Al Queda are constantly meeting their ultimate goal and dying for their faith. It's easy as they love death and long for it. Many more of them need to reach their ultimate objective and embrace death. NO ONE shoots at the US Forces and lives if at all possible even if they have to chase them for days. That's a good policy and it prevents the less committed from engaging.
Make no mistake about it, the fight is engaged, ongoing, continuous and bloody with Allah Welcoming the continuous fresh supply of mislead and damned souls. I'd love to see the look on their faces when they leave their fleshly abode and enter the spiritual realm then realizing they have been duped.
Though there are no "official" counts partly facilitated by the fact that the Taliban/ AlQueda make a concerted effort to immediately remove and dead or wounded as quickly as possible, the numbers fortunately are higher than any of us might imagine.

"They have to coordinate with us," he (Karzai) said. "They have to strengthen the Afghan National Army further. They have to help us build a police force that is raised from the community, that is in the community.

"They cannot bring standards from their countries in the West and try to apply it in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a different country. It has different values systems. It has a different community structure. From now onward, they have to work the way we ask them to work in here. That's the line."

- - - - - - -

Gee, if we want to fight his enemies in his country, we need to do it his way. We need a bomb that only kills those with "evildoer" tattooed across their foreheads, so when they launch attacks from civilian areas we don't kill any innocents in the return fire.

--- what the heck am I saying? This is AFGHANISTAN, land of the warlords; there are precious few innocents living there. If "Muktrid"'s wife's cousin's son wants to come stay with them for a few weeks and lob grenades at the local coalition outpost, then by clan ties and Muslim hospitality the wife's cousin's son is welcomed. If the troops fire back and kill "Muktrid", everybody claims he was an "innocent civilian".

There is no way to eradicate the warlords in the mountains unless we simply bomb their strongholds into slagheaps. We're trying the nation-building thing, which is commendable I guess, but the warlords don't want modernity and the rule of law. They want to be the chief despots in their provinces, they want to be the dispensers of law and collectors of tax, they want to intimidate the local populace into submission, and to hell with any interference from Kabul. Without a national will or commitment to build a nation, there will be no nation. That's true in Afghanistan, in Iraq, anywhere. If a set of people don't willingly adopt the Social Contract - give up the freedom to do "whatever you can get away with" and accept restrictions on individual actions to guarantee social order for all (or: "government by the consent of the governed) - it takes a whole lot more force than NATO can apply to create law and order, or "peace". And that "peace" will last only as long as there are sufficient armed men to enforce it.

I am not optimistic.

So which side is Karzai on again?

Same side as Musharaf. Same side as the ISI and the Wahabists and the Persians.

Same side as B. Hussein Obama, our next VP, #2 in line of succession, just before Nancy Pelosi.

As someone who owes us his life, Karzai should be told to seal the piehole.

Or we might not call his security detail about the Taliban suicide bomber coming toward his caravan one day.

Crowing for local consumption.

One more ingrate.

Poisoned by the Koran.

The Goobs: Jobs we don't want! How can these people look in the mirror or at their families?

I am having a problem that I think something else everyone should be aware of too! This is frighting. A woman married to a Big Real Estate agent her husband all of a sudden dies and she takes his business. Soon to latch on to my dad! He had a heart attack and was to rest in bed and have oxygen. Instead she made him drive from Michigan to Florida in a big mobile home! She does not have a drivers license for some reason! She is german! After my dad gets to Florida he is dying, she will not go with him to the ER where he collapse in a coma for a month and died! She called NO ONE! Only to run back here fast as she could and go to work! She had a fake will drawn up, and it is NOT my dad's signature. Taking all three of my dad's houses!
The whole time people living with her and in these houses! I keep checking the internet and I see things, such as she does real estate in Arizona, Florida, Michigan, UK, ect., for "mexicans". Sells car insurance, real estate, health and life insurance. She is very secretive. Her sites led me to sites with plutonium ect. I did not know companys ship that!
I see she sells boats to go into Mexican waters! My third mother ask how do I find this stuff. You have to type it in different ways.
So far I have been through 5 court hearings. In less than 2 weeks I am to go again. She wants my lawyer removed'conflict of interest! I'd say! She tried to give me a house if I backed off! Hell NO!
I am above cost of my house now! If I loose there will be mexicans living here! I have called the police and they say, "MAM! We do not CARE!"
They won't even let me show them the proof I have!
My lawyer says we just have to show your dad was not in his right state of mine when he signed that! That is ridiculous! She was not even married to him. I am his only daughter! I do believe she is running a muck!It will allow these people to get real estate! That is how it is done! I just cannot believe it happened to my dad!-he left a will for me.
I had told my dad, did you know if you have not had sex in 4yrs you are a virgin again. He says, "Well that explains it!" what I say? He says the "72 virgins!" eeewwhhh... I say!
We went out to eat alot and talk about the war and the White House! He was so smart and a work alholic.
Thus far all I am fighting in court, it comes from my dad's estate. I am fighting her, and then there is his 3rd wife. I am paying for me to fight her and her to fight me and my 3rd mom too!
She is very good. I am not into games or real estate, or all that stuff I have no knowledge. No one in law will even listen. That is why I do not care either! If I see something so F'n what! I use to give to the police department. No more! Notta!
These people that live in my dads other house down the road from her are also real estate people and they just bought another house on that street. It really needs to be checked out and investigated but they Do Not Care! There will be no real estate for Americans either.
She moved in with him 2004!
After this is over I am going to put it on the net so people can read it. To protect themselfs! How this is done! One signature and no ACCOUNTABILITY!

This deception that is going on in America is our doom! There should be a very high penalty for this, these people running fake adds to fool Americans as to they may get a job. What about Global warming a-o gore and wasting gas. Why are our people suffering? Why is lie and deception the exception?! Clinton King of Lies and Deception.
Listening to Obama wants the kindergartens to know what vulva is and penis! What is this? Scare our children to death!?

I wanted to say most of all that interview was GREATTTTTT! He cut Robert off though! First he says the lights are lightning up. Then he only does two calls?! Robert you answer so well and that guy accused you of slandering Mo! You never have! We may, but you have not! Your answers were right on and to the point and covered very well! I could listen to more! In fact why doesn't the White House invite you? o-,,lol..daa they are slumbering! You are a great mediator! You are the best kind of person in your heart to do this.
It cannot be easy! We all appreciate you and down the road you will be admired! I pray for you and your protection and well being! God be with us all! and thankyou again!

Karzai is afraid he will end up like Najibullah.

Personally, I wouldn't mind if it happened to him
tomorrow....

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/07/20/islam-what-the-west-needs-to-know/

I must add personally Ahmad Shah Massoud was a good man! A true warrior and spirtual too. He loved! He loved his people and Afghanistan! He would of been a good allie with the Americans!

Massoud the leader of The Northern Alliance, without him there would be no Afghanistan. He managed to hold and keep Kabul. He was a different type of muslim for sure! It was bin-laden he had been chasing and trying to kill for years. He hated the Taliban and bin! When Harmi stepped in he was softer yes. No one would take the job. He does not want Kabul to loose one inch of ground or any people hurt there except the islamist that are killing his people! He got upset before about if innocents get in the crossfire! I don't know what to add because it is sad to me. I want Massouds dreams to come alive and those are the same things we are fighting there for! I do not know any other muslim I can say this about except the Great Massoud! There is no one that can do what that guy did. Fight for 20 years and manage to outsmart the taliban! His stories are worth reading. I think! Sebastian Junger did a very good documentary on Massoud while he was alive.
I light a candle for Massoud every 9-9- he was killed two days before 9-11 he was warning America that bin was planning something! He was a good man!

I will add Massoud fought for woman to be free.
He did not believe in the killing of women, he tried very hard to protect them and give them jobs. He stuck his life out there to do this!

MZ l have read and saw tv clips about this Massoud. He seemed to have been a great man! on the tv clips, l saw that he had a German Shepard dog mix who clinged to him and l could tell from the dogs'actions adored this man. It is a great shame and loss to Afganistan and mankind that such a great man died so young. There are good people even among Muslims and l pray another one like this Massoud
can fight the darnkess and evil of islam.

"In reality, Western forces do all they can to avoid civilian casualties"...I understand what Mr. Spencer is trying to do, but I have to flat-out disagree with that statement. On many, many occasions, Western planes have bombed locations that had nothing whatever to do with jihadists or rebels of any sort. Of course casualties will happen, particularly given the jihadists' insidious habit of hiding among civilians, but there have also been many instances of simple trigger-happiness among coalition troops. To say that avoicing civilian casualties is a top priority for Western (or, at the very least, American) forces just isn't true.

As for Massoud, I wouldn't place him on a pedestal just yet. He was a warlord, though perhaps a more enlightened one than most. That said, he was certainly a great deal better than the vast majority of the people now running Afghanistan. He actually seemed to have a good head on his shoulders.

"On many, many occasions, Western planes have bombed locations that had nothing whatever to do with jihadists or rebels of any sort?"

...please provide dates, locations, circumstances and results....

Thankyou Zena!