Sharia thoughtcrime comes to the U.S.: a man throws a Qur'an into a toilet, and has now been charged with a "hate crime." The unindicted co-conspirators of CAIR are, of course, involved.
"Hate-crime arrests in Quran desecrations at Pace University," from AP (thanks to LGF):
NEW YORK (AP) _ A 23-year-old man was arrested Friday on hate-crime charges after he threw a Quran in a toilet at Pace University on two separate occasions, police said.Stanislav Shmulevich of Brooklyn was arrested on charges of criminal mischief and aggravated harassment, both hate crimes, police said. It was unclear if he was a student at the school. A message left at the Shmulevich home was not immediately returned.
The Islamic holy book was found in a toilet at Pace's lower Manhattan campus by a teacher on Oct. 13. A student discovered another book in a toilet on Nov. 21, police said.
Muslim activists had called on Pace University to crack down on hate crimes after the incidents. As a result, the university said it would offer sensitivity training to its students.
No one, of course, is calling upon those "Muslim activists" to take a strong stand against those Muslims who are justifying violence on the basis of the Qur'an and thereby lead people like Stanislav Shmulevich to come to despise the book.
The school was accused by Muslim students of not taking the incident seriously enough at first. Pace classified the first desecration of the holy book as an act of vandalism, but university officials later reversed themselves and referred the incident to the New York Police Department's hate crimes unit.The incidents came amid a spate of vandalism cases with religious or racial overtones at the school. In an earlier incident on Sept. 21, the school reported another copy of the Quran was found in a library toilet, and in October someone scrawled racial slurs on a student's car at the Westchester County satellite campus and on a bathroom wall at the campus in lower Manhattan. Police did not connect Shmulevich to those incidents.
Treatment of the Quran is a sensitive issue for Muslims, who view the book as a sacred object and mistreating it as an offense against God. The religion teaches that the Quran is the direct word of God....
Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the national CAIR office in Washington, D.C., has said the organization receives frequent reports of Quran desecrations in the United States, especially postings on Internet sites, but seldom makes them public.
He said CAIR decided to speak out about the Pace incidents because Muslim students are impacted by the creation of what could be viewed as a hostile campus environment.
LGF has background on ongoing dhimmitude at Pace and more.
Now why hasn't that "gay artist", Charles Merrill been arrested for burning a $60,000 Koran?
Is it because he's an "artiste"???
We Americans ought to have a "flush the Koran" day where we all toss a copy of the Koran in a toilet and let the bloody hate crime police arrest us! Flood the jails and the courtrooms with thousands of Americans who commit hate crimes.
We're reaching a breaking point.
At worst, obstruction of plumbing.
Make him clean the Korans out and be on his way.
UNBELIEVABLE
I seem to recall an incident not too many months ago where some muslim students were caught red handed desecrating a Bible, ripping it up and I believe even using the pages to wipe their ass with.... in some school in Texas, maybe? Anyone else remember this happening?
Now, surely since they went after this guy for throwing the koran, a work of hate speech itself, into the toilet, they will certainly go after those muslims who were desecrating a Bible, right right?
Yeah, I won't hold my breath either.
DISGUSTING.
This is to be expected at any university given that they are infested with liberal professors and students who despise anything western and especially Christianity.
To them there are no bad Muslims only oppresive Christians and Jews and their disgusting Judeo-Christian open society.
Hell at many colleges free speech is only applicable to leftists and Islamists. Anyone better keep their mouth shut lest they get a visit from the PC police.
If anything our universities show the authoritarian streak that is so prevelent among liberals and what utter hypocrites and frauds they are.
Folks, follow the LGF link and use the "Contact Us" link for Pace University and write to them!
We need to flood them with outrage. Ask them if they would have done the same if it had been a Bible.
Man throws book down toilet. A problem for the janitorial staff, certainly, but not for the NYPD.
A sense of proportion is needed here. Make him clean out the men's loos, so as to appreciate the job the janitors do. Set him an essay on the theme of "Why destroying any book is a crime against learning". But arrest and charge him? For getting a book wet? Good Lord, no. Did New York become Riyadh without anybody noticing?
Islam, being an ideology of hatred against infidels, is the ultimate hatespeech.
It would be counter-hatespeech to destroy such a document of hatespeech.
This angle needs to be brought out in the courts.
Would flushing a "Mein Kampf" be considered hatespeech or a blow for freedom?
How is this a crime? In the US if you buy a book whether the Koran, Mein Kampf or Harry Potter you can do with that book what you want. You can tear it up, flush it, spit on it or even read it.If the toilet was damaged by the Koran that's vandalism nothing more.
My letter to Pace:
I have just read that Pace is pressing criminal charges for "hate crime" against a man who allegedly flushed a copy of the Koran down the toilet.
This is absolutely outrageous! American citizens are entirely within their rights to express their contempt for a religious or political ideology through demonstrative means that does not involve violence or the destruction of another's property -- neither of which occurred in this case.
We have certainly seen enough examples of religious and national symbols being defaced or destroyed with NO legal action taken against the actors involved.
Apparently, Pace believes that only Islam is entitled to unequal rights under the law.
My sister is a Pace alumnus and I have sent her a copy of this article so that she can consider whether she wishes to continue contributing to an institution that has completely compromised its integrity and commitment to free and fair speech.
Ummm, since when has throwing a book in a toilet been a crime? I think unlawful detention is though.
There is this thing called the 1st Amendment. The litigation insurance policies of Pace University and New York City just got more expensive. I hope this guy takes his case to the carpet.
Even when I was younger, when hate-crimes first came about, I thought they, hate-crimes, were a bad idea. How the hell can you criminalize a motive, a thought? You can criminalize the action, in this case - vandalism, but not the thought.
Hate-crimes are just the first step to that will one day make Nazism seem mild in comparison to what the Thought Police will eventually be able to do.
Free country?
Not any more thanks to those damn idiots in our government and elsewhere!!
This is a good illustration of why having a hate crime law is a bad idea. Expressing hatred is part of free speech, as long as that expression doesn't endanger others. After all, the Qur'an itself is hateful and advocates violence.
This person is guilty of poor taste, and, as someone else suggested, "obstruction of plumbing", but not criminal conduct.
The restrictions on our freedoms can be added to our physical insecurities and economic burdens as gifts from the Religion of Peace.
Unless this was done in the presence of a Muslim as a taunt or was accompanied by notes left to Muslims that this had been done, this does not constitute harassment. It is not criminal mischief either, unless you want to construe clogging up a toilet in that way. I am not aware of cases where anyone is arrested for throwing other objects down the toilet.
There is simply no legal basis for this man's arrest and it is unconstitutional. All it is is immature behavior and that, by itself, is not illegal.
It is a violation of his First Amendment Right to Free Speech. It is certainly far less publicly provocative than flag-burning, which is often considered to be protected under the First Amendment, except in the eyes of a protected and well-lawyered minority.
It is also a violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment if others are not arrested for purposely flushing items beyond bodily waste and toilet paper down the toilet. When was the last time someone was arrested for flushing an "unauthorized" item down the toilet? So it's a double standard that violates the Equal Protection Clause. In a larger sense, the whole concept of a protected minority whose "rights" or simple grievances have priority over anyone else's is a violation of the Equal Protection Clause.
This would be a good case for a conservative lawyer to take pro bono. I hope this guy hooks up with someone who will fight this illegal arrest and bring to light not the petty silliness of flushing the Koran down a toilet but the insanity of allowing angry students with nothing better to do and CAIR to coerce the police into arresting this guy.
Putting something where it belongs is not hate crime.
We can't let this go. I'm cross-posting this.
Chocolate Jesus and feces on the Mother Mary, fine, but someone shows disgust with Islam in any physical form and suddenly it's a "hate crime"?
All the more reason for more action, less talk:
Demonstrations Set for Sept. 11: Stop Islamisation of Europe
Boycott Islam
i hope that everyone who posts on this site and LGF has a good lawyer because eventually they will come for all of us. this case shows that we are all under scrutiny within the privacy of our own homes. i left the UK for these free shores, the USA. i am incredelous to find that this land is not free, it is a controlled environment, our founding fathers would have us up in arms if they could see this land today. we need to get organised or very soon we will be silenced.
"Treatment of the Quran is a sensitive issue for Muslims, who view the book as a sacred object and mistreating it as an offense against God. The religion teaches that the Quran is the direct word of God...."
But it is not a sacred book to non-Muslims. Many non-Muslims are deeply offended by the Qu'ran's patriarchal point of view, it's Jew hating verses, its calls for exploitation of non-believers, etc. Many non-Muslims think it is a book filled with intolerance and hate. Many non-Muslims are well aware that the Qu'ran's "peaceful verses" have been abrogated by the later chronological verses that order Muslims to violence against unbelievers and the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims.
(The Qu'ran is allegedly dictation (word for word-not a Bible style story) from God. Verses in the Qu'ran are set-up longest to shortest, but what counts re its mandates are chronological order. For example, the verse that calls wine good is later abrogated by the verse that condemns alcohol. The same thing is true of the abrogated "peaceful verses". Many Muslims are afraid that Unbelievers are going to learn the truth on this.)
In any case, if a Jewish person stomps on Mien Kampf or throws it in the toilet-is that a hate crime? It would be a hate crime in Nazi Germany. In like manner, why should a Jew consider the Qu'ran sacred since it has Jew hating verses (unabrogated) in it? Why not have sensitivity training for Muslims about the Jew-hating verses in the Qu'ran?
Shmulevich is innocent of any charge.
Morever, Shmulevich has certain inalienable defenses to the crimes of which he is accused. Shmulvevich has the defenses of infidel privilege and his misdemeanor, if any, should be mitigated by the defense of moslem incitement.
It is self defense for an infidel to destroy a koran. It is incitement of an infidel for a person or institution to possess a koran. The book is rambling chant of hate speech. Possession of a college library of a koran other than for education of infidels, should be a crime. Infidels need to have copies of the book for their self protection. Library copies need to bear warning labels or they should be subject to destruction.
Hating the koran is not a crime, it is a fundamental right for any infidel. Infidels are allowed to hate the koran for their self protection and self preservation. Additionally, hating a person who follows the koran is not a crime, it is fundamental right of any infidel to hate a person who follows the koran because the book calls for violence, intimidation and theft of infidel property.
Any moslem in possession of a koran by virtue of possession, incites an infidel to violence.
I assume Shmulevich has the defense to the charges against him that the koran calls for Shmulevich's conversion or murder. Shmulevich has the defense that proponents of the book incite others to violence against him constantly calling him an ape and pig who is to be killed in advance of judgment day. Shmulevich needs Robert Spencer as an expert witness to testify why the koran itself is a
provocation against the life, liberty or property of infidels such as Shmuelevich and why his reaction is privileged, legitimate and ordinary and necessary to provocation contained within the book.
Who decides what a hate crime is? Somebody got upset, their feelings hurt, so that makes it a crime? So now we have laws based on feelings, the ultimate liberal agenda.
This is a joke.
This would be a good case for a conservative lawyer to take pro bono.
Actually someone needs to found a nonprofit organization providing free legal counsel in cases where the special accomodation or treatment of Islam is at stake...a sort of anti-jihad equivalent to the American Center for Law and Justice.
I bet the donations for such an organization would pour in.
I hope the ACLJ gets wind of this.
http://www.aclj.org/
Wow... So just when did America become Amerika?
This really crosses the line into police state territory...
Classical case of persecution of an individual for expressing his political views.
The point whether they are going to charge him with a hate crime is moot. Because just how many people that clog up a toilet does the NYPD charge with criminal mischief? So the persecution of the individual is politically motivated, regardless of how they write up the charges...
The resultant plumbing issues are a matter that should have been handled within the university administration, the state stepping in and bringing criminal charges is political persecution..
The guy should put in a complaint with amnesty International and the various UN human rights agencies, just so we can confirm that those agencies only care about the terrorists at Guantanomo...
How can an UNHOLY book of lies with perverted descriptions of God possibly be desecrated?
havekoranwilltravel-
Unfortunately, it is not a joke to people who want to silence any critical analysis of Islam. The whole thing reminds me of the attempt by the "Slaveocracy" (as J.Q. Adams called it) to silence John Quincy Adams and others, to ban any criticism of slavery in congress and elsewhere in the US. William LLoyd Garrison and others were accused of fomenting "hate" and "divisiveness" for merely pointing out the truth re slavery. Congress passed "gag rules" that mandated silence on the issue.
People like Adams did not back-down and now we look back and see how brave they were to stand up and speak the truth amid the calls that they be silent. Adams and others speech on the issue was "offensive". But they spoke the truth.
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:SwaZk8OfHQcJ:www.wfu.edu/~zulick/340/gagrule2.html+gag+rules,+john+quincy+adams&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
Because I'm THAT ticked off right now:
Dedicated to Pace University: Burning the Quran
Watch the LIES burn.
Maybe Americans need to be pushed. Maybe our police do need to start arresting our kids when they defy Islam but not when they burn an American flag -- because if this continues, I'll get a plane ticket to Washington along with 50 million other Americans and tear the damn White House down brick by brick if I have to!
I consider this a RED ALERT wake-up call!!!
THE FIRST STRATEGY OF ISLAM's 20-POINT PLAN TO TAKE OVER AMERICA BY THE YEAR 2020 is TO REPLACE AMERICA'S FREEDOM OF SPEECH WITH HATE CRIME BILLS NATION WIDE.
So we see that while it is now legal in America to desecrate the American flag a book that teaches first degree murder can get people thrown in jail for getting it wet????? Did I miss something???? Muslims actually desecrate the American flag at public anti-American rallies for heaven's sake with the ACLU's blessing! Anerican flag-burning (which as mentioned is LEGAL) by Muslim "activists" can be viewed on news footage taken from all over this country.
Oh, dear God!! this is TERRIBLE. Just terrible.
It is now ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that Islam is succeeding with its plot to destroy our nation and Islamize itby the year 2020!! Anyone not frightened by this SHOULD be frightened if not they simply lack the intelligence to be !!
The successful implementation of these and other "hate crime laws" is an opening salvo in the war to infiltrate and destroy our nation by Islam and Communism.
The leftist world of moonbats do not care if America is destroyed as they are anti-liberty anyway. They are part of this war to destroy America. They want state manufactured and imposed ideology if it means millions of us must be beheaded by Muslim "terrorists" to do that.
These "hate crime" bills are a Trojan Horse that was sent to America by people who themselves hate all that America has ever stood for.
Notice the leftist moonbats incorporated aren't doing anything to stop THAT type of hate.
All anyone need do is inspect the writings of the Kuran to see the hate permeating Islamic theology and ideology. The leftist moonbats incorporated have no intention of doing anything about THAT type of "hate" either.
Maybe we need to stage a "million man" Kuran burning ceremony in Washington DC in front of Congress to protest the new fascism the new left is bringing to Ameica!!!!
Unless the damned book was library property, there was no crime.
If it was library property the worst that can be said is destruction of property and/or vandalism.
========================
Post 1984 America.
Welcome to the brave new world.
@pythagoras: It represents everything I've been ranting about since 2003!
The Islamists are on the move, they are in our schools and our government. Words are weak.
If I have to get militant, believe me, there isn't a fan big enough to catch all the s#$@ that will fly.
pythagoras:
I'm with you. We do need to start taking to the streets. The loonies in the 60's accomplished their stupid agenda in trying to destroy this country by doing it, let's fight back fire with fire.
Folks, we can't sit at our computers fuming about this. I know lots do good work in the blogosphere and in real life to fight Islam.
But we have to make ourselves more visible and demonstrative now.
We are in the fight for our lives. This is crucial. We have to let Washington know that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
One good thing about this, is this pretty much blows the "slippery slope" argument the leftists like to use right out of the water. You've all heard it, it goes basically like this, "sure we don't like to let out convicted pedophiles out of jail on technicalities any more then you do, but if we don't let out convicted pedophiles out of jail on technicalities, we'll start down a "slippery slope" which will end in the state persecuting individuals for their political views."
Well, this case proves that you can have a justice system that quite routinely lets out dangerous criminals on technicalities (as in New York City) and that justice system can STILL persecute individuals for their political views.
So I say let's instead have a justice system that doesn't let out criminals on technicalites AND doesn't persecute individuals for their political views, we've had it here in the US before about the 60's, let's have it again...
The only way we can fight islam is with PROPER education. I tell people who I deal with that its not a war on terror its a war on islam. Today on Fox news website there was a vidio about "young Jehadists" watch it, no more needs to be said about where these people get there ideas, its islam. A 15 year old boy was being taught how to behead some one. A girl 15 said she will die to defend islam, another said he would kill whomever defies islam. The non-islamic world is the target of all muzlems. In doubt? Just ask your average muzlem if he can be friends with Christian or Jewish people. Ask any Inmam who is they concider an "innocent" person. An innocent person is a muzlem. Non muzlems are "guilty" of not following islam.
PorkChop:
Education is not the ONLY way to fight Islam. It's one of the ways.
Americans are now being arrested for not tolerating every evil ideology and culture entering our country. Just because some government agency wants to flood the USA with 3rd world people does not obligate me to tolerate foreign cultures, ideologies, or terrorist groups. Islam is a terrorist organization. Muslims should be deported, not welcomed to the United States.
NY, home of the UIN is attempting to destroy America? No surprise here, where was NY during the American Revolution, profiteering. Where were they during the Civil War, draft rioting. Where are they in this great struggle, picking out prayer rugs for the rest of us. NY, on the wrong side of history for over 230 years. Burn the flag, urinate on the Cross, crap on Jesus, smear our Military anything goes as long as it is islamist approved.
I have had enough, these islamists are targeting NY and NY is busy French kissing the islamists. After the next attack sue the islamist apologist city for felony endangerment of the rest of us, no cash bailout this time. The guy in question should sue the school for everything they have, post photos of these anti American Constitutional enemies let us see the face of the enemy. Hey NY you want to get yourself blown up again, have at it I wont lose any sleep over it, just keep your bombs and your anti American garbage to yourselves.
People constantly try to smear my great state California, well NY and many other east coast crapholes are not fit to wipe the vomit out of the corner of our mouths we are not islamosuckups. Boycott New Gaza City the life you save may be your own. Boycotts work, the only thing they understand is money or the loss of money so spend it carefully, it might be the single most important thing you do to help America in this fight.
what if 10 000 of us held a koran loo flushing demo, would they be able to arrest us all?
Where's Foehammer???
Dude, let's use your site to discuss and plan this!!!!
FlushKoran:
The film on Sophie Scholl is one of my favorites and she is a hero in my book. Watching her during the Gestapo interrogation was amazing. And how she shamed the German kangaroo court with her condemnation of Naziism... brilliant.
I highly recommend this film to everyone who values freedom and justice.
BTW,
I don't recommend doing that to a university because it is destructive to public property. We cannot and should not do anything that is illegal regarding property rights.
However, burning one's own koran on one's own property, or on that of a consenting property owner is perfectly legal.
"CAIR today launched an online petition drive designed to disassociate the faith of Islam from the violent acts of a few Muslims."
a few muslims?
Feel free to rant over at my site and toss back and forth ideas. However, some points I'd like to make here:
1) We have to learn the Hate Crime laws inside and out and be prepared to defend ourselves. This goes for every site in the Anti-Jihad Blogosphere and every reader of such sites.
2) We have to find out details about acts such as the one at Pace University. Did the Qurans belong to the student? Did he threaten anyone personally while flushing them? Etc. I know this is all just the first step for CAIR -- even if they have a legitimate case for other reasons beyond the act of "flushing a Koran" itself, the next step after this arrest will be having any of us arrested for even speaking out against Islam. This has to be countered NOW.
3) Keep our heads. Don't give fuel to any of these Islamofascists so that they can turn our efforts around on us. We won't get anywhere by wallowing in real hate rhetoric. Truth is on our side. Everyone here knows what Islam really is and what its goals are. Powers are at work trying to shut our Freedom of Speech off in order to marginalize us. So, we keep cool. We need to form up into a cohesive political unit. There need to be peaceful protests in the streets of Washington, DC, etc. The protests need to be massive and unavoidable by the MSM, but they have to be organized and legal most of all.
4) Groups are out there that can blossom into a front for the cause already -- like 910, Protest Warrior, the Minutemen -- but there have to be other allies, too. Where's the ACLU in all of this uproar right now????
I'm waiting for some ultra liberal socialist "art-teast" to do some rendition of "piss-allah" or "piss-muhammud".
Oh thats right only trashing Christianity is politically correct...
This story needs as much MSM coverage as possible. Contact every major network talking head -- O'Reilly, Geraldo, Dobbs, Blitzer, Beck on down...
The Supreme court said burning the flag is free speech, so this would fall under the same category. Or it should anyway.
If burning the American flag is free speech, then burning / flushing a Koran should be free speech as well.
This slap in the face to the American people is the result of a concerted effort by millions and MILLIONS of Islamists worldwide to destroy liberty in America and every place it exists. Islamists everywhere mean to mow us down (and they're DOING IT as we can see with this arrest at PACE University).
Witticisms won't cut it anymore.
Only real dedication to fighting the good fight against our political whore/"leaders" and the enemy sixth column on our soil will help us at this point.
We all must try MUCH, MUCH harder. We must defeat Islam AND Communism and bone-headed moonbats incorporated everywhere as it is they who work to advance the cause of state-manufactured and imposed ideologies at our expense.
The ACLU going to defend his free speech?
There should be no such thing as a "hate crime" of any kind --Not race, not color, not gender, not religion. A "hate crime" is nothing less than a thought crime. The American public should have opposed them from the beginning, and the ideologues on the Supreme court should not have allowed them to stand. They are completely unconstitutional.
The Koran-in-the-toilet case is a perfect example of how these laws are used to beat people into submission to think only approved thoughts.
If a private citizen hates a race, color, gender or religion, that's their right. Remember also, that hate crimes are almost always enforced selectively. If you hate a White Male, you can be reasonably sure that you'll almost never be charged with a hate crime, because White Males are approved objects of hate.
Hate crimes are thought crimes. Period.
@Elric66: Yes, it should, but as Hirsi Ali pointed out in an interview recently "...you can spit on Freedom because you have it."
Let this be a warning shot for all of us:
It's OK to burn the U.S. national symbol of Freedom and all we hold sacred: the American flag.
It's a "hate crime" to flush a Qur'an: the theocratic, fascist dogma of the world's largest 7th century cult, all poorly wrapped up in an often incoherent bundle of lies and bad poetry.
...
General email for Pace University
infoctr@pace.edu
http://www.utoday.com/pace/
Alumini and friends
I left the ACLU NY a voice mail. I wonder if they will reply.
Foe its disgusting how these elitists spit on freedom. They love freedom for themselves but feel anyone that doesnt agree with them shouldnt have it.
For anyone interested.
New York Civil Liberties Union
125 Broad Street, 19th Floor, New York NY 10004
phone 212-607-3300
fax 212-607-3318 and 212-607-3329
I heard of the despicable act of prosecuting a man for flushing a Qur'an. If you are a center for higher learning, then possibly a debate over why the man flushed the Qur'an would be more appropriate?
Maybe you could have the school watch this, and discuss what in the Qur'an would justify these sorts of actions. I could give you chapter and verse, but why deprive you of some research on your own.
For starters http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam101/
view: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piPgfKjC8hE
Real disappointed and saddened by your actions.
letter I sent to the University.
Idea:
Write emails to the boys at Protest Warrior:
http://www.protestwarrior.com/contact.php
Ask them to spearhead a huge protest aimed at Stopping the Islamisation of the USA and the Western World.
Groups that should be involved in such a protest would be anyone from the Catholic Church to the ACLU, to 910 to the Minutemen, to firefighters to policemen to our elected representatives. The point is, we need to act upon such ideas and get the protest organized for some point in 2008. It should be held in Washington, DC.
Look, folks, enough talk. We need to either stand by what's best in the USA and the West or we are lost. Why is it always the moonbats and Muslims that are protesting in massive numbers and not "regular folk"?
We just need enough outrage to get moving. I say it's time to stop all this damn talk and pick up a sign, wear a t-shirt, get MSM attention and wake up our nations to the stark reality of what price will be paid if we continue to act like sheep and lemmings.
Know organizations that can help put together the massive protest needed? Name them!
Let me start the damn ball rolling then:
Wanted: A Million Marchers to ‘Stop Islamisation of the USA’
I'll pass on flushing the Koran. No need to spend money on a plumber. Best to just run the book through a shredder and then you can flush it a little every day. No evidence afterward for many years. CAIR will spend too much time trying to reconstruct our shredded korans (if they can find them) and they won't have time for anything else. Someday you'd hear Mohammad called California or ordered a violent movie and the proof that Arabia had the telephone before Bell invented it is the reconstructed koran.
Sure it doesn't have the TV value of a book in a toilet, but does that matter? It's still kaput.
We can point to the terrorists who holed up in the Church of the Nativity a few years back. Didn't they take pages of historic Bibles and use them in the exact same way?
They probably would have had their rights to "free expression" protected had they done it here, in the National Cathedral or St. Patrick's Cathedral.
I think a politico once said that "hate crimes" can only be committed against a minority, effectively saying that no American of white European ancestry can call himself a victim of a hate crime.
I also do my part by sharing this site along with others to open some eyes. I have enlightened some people to the dangers of Islam. I even got one girl to buy P.I.G. to Islam. I do believe I scare some because when they see the truth its overwhelming.
So Hooper is confirming that Muslims believe that God lives inside the paper and ink , no wonder Jesus warned people of a False-Prophet that would repeat messages from his father and try to fools the ignorant masses that he himself
spoke to God and was handed down those words.
Jesus also warned about Baal worshipping and Idolatry towards inanimate objects or exalting anyone as THE God or A God , long before the Quran came along it was predicted that this False-Prophet would promise Peace but only bring war and pain to the followers, the Prophet would also teach people to kill unbelivers as a favour to God.
I guess Hooper will hand out sensitivity leaflets with a picture of the Quran right next to human SH*T and remind students that one gives you comfort and peace and the other is toxic and dangerous if touched and has Arabic written on it .
It is unbelievable, that is why the horror movie analogy fits so well. Most people would say to you, cmon, you cannot be serious this sounds like a script straight out of Hollywood.
Somebody needs to get on the legal angle of this fast, fast, fast. If they'd charged him with some minor form of vandalism, they might have been able to get away with it, though we all know it would have been ideologically motivated. But okay, you damage university property (the toilet), you may get charged. Fine.
But harassment??? To whom? That charge needs to get thrown out so fast it bounces, and it's very important that no precedent be set that this can be called "harassment," or the can of worms is opened, legally. And what does "criminal mischief" usually include? I'm gonna bet _not_ deliberately flushing objects that shouldn't be flushed down a toilet!
What I don't think his lawyer should argue is that this is "freedom of speech." Look, people look stupid when they say that stuff like this is freedom of speech. Sure, sure, burning a flag supposedly is, so this should be, etc. But burning a flag really _isn't_, so it's going to weaken the case in the eyes of the public to say that vandalizing a toilet that isn't your own toilet is freedom of speech.
The lawyer should just argue that the actual charges are inappropriate and that his client is not guilty of either of those charges, and leave it at that. But he should argue for that very forcefully.
I'm sorry if I missed it, but what is this guy facing as far as incarceration time?
So it's now against the law in this country to throw a Koran in the dumper? I wasn't aware of that since we see Muslims like the Islamist Stinkers Society burn American flags and the "piss Christ" piss of crap.
Other than buried in the ground, I can't think of a better location for a book of hate like the Koran to be placed.
"Treatment of the Quran is a sensitive issue for Muslims":
What isn't?
"who view the book as a sacred object and mistreating it as an offense against God":
Punishable by death, no doubt.
"The religion teaches that the Quran is the direct word of God":
But is really the direct word of a desert wanderer who was stricken with a mental disorder.
(insert theme-music for "Twilight Zone")
Welcome to a new dimension, a place beyond reason and morality; where it's perfectly legal to display hatred towards your country (flag burning) or hatred toward meat eaters (PETA) or hatred towards homosexuals ("God Hates Fags" Westboro Baptist Church) or hatred toward blacks (Neo-Nazi White Supremists are permitted to demonstrate) or hatred toward Christianity, but it's illegal to display hatred towards the book that inspires terrorists across the globe to commit heinous acts of murder, mayhem, and genocide on a daily basis.
You've just entered the Twilight Zone.
We're back to the "ham sandwich" and "bacon-in-a-Koran" problem: how can it be a "hate crime" if it's not even a crime in the first place? Somebody -- campus security, police, FBI? -- needs to tell the complainers that "While we're sorry you took offense at an incident that was no doubt INTENDED to give you offense, this is not a crime. If he clogged the toilet, requiring a plumber's services, he will be required to pay the plumber's charges. If this isn't satisfactory for you, I can recommend moving to a country where "defacing a Koran" IS a punishable crime. Have a nice day."
First of all, the Qur'an contains verses of hatred against Jews and non-believers.
Stanislav Shmulevich showed hatred towards that hatred. But Muslims show hatred towards hatred against (Qur'anic) hatred.
So why is hatred towards hatred a "hate" crime, while hatred towards hatred against hatred is not?
If I hate the Muslim hatred against Shmulevich's hatred against Qur'anic hatred...is that a "hate" crime?
And if Muslims hate my hatred against Muslim hatred against Shmulevich's hatred against Qur'anic hatred... is THAT a hate crime? (ad infinitum)
Sounds like an unauthorized Progressive Art Exhibit.
Fine him for failure to get a permit to stage some Guerrilla Theater, then get him a NEA grant, and finally have a debate about the merits of the contents of the Koran.
Which is what the university cowards and media cravens and government flunkies have been pathetically and shamefully and studiously avoiding since 9/12/2001.
Dare them to Open the Koran
And Spread the Dread.
Sounds like an unauthorized Progressive Art Exhibit.
Fine him for failure to get a permit to stage some Guerrilla Theater, then get him a NEA grant, and finally have a debate about the merits of the contents of the Koran.
Which is what the university cowards and media cravens and government flunkies have been pathetically and shamefully and studiously avoiding since 9/12/2001.
Dare them to Open the Koran
And Spread the Dread.
Isn't that book a hate crime. He needs a good lawyer. Going to jail for flushing the words of a pedophile. Now I've heard it all.
Posted by Foehammer:
Idea: Write emails to the boys at Protest Warrior: Ask them to spearhead a huge protest aimed at Stopping the Islamisation of the USA and the Western World.
Do you know what would really help, Foehammer? Some more of your art. Those posters on your website are BRILLIANT. Superbly drawn, powerful imagery, and evocative of the resistance of a bygone age.
But you know what would be best of all? Make 'em FREE! That's not a criticism - it's your work, it's damn good, each poster undoubtedly takes a lot of time and you deserve to be rewarded for it.
But they are more than just art - they are public service messages. If you kept the high-quality copies for sale, but made downloadable free versions too, people could download them, photocopy them and spread them around. Viral marketing is the ideal tool for spreading the anti-Islamist message. Look at the success of YouTube and how things spread on there. They could be downloaded as mini posters, direct onto labels as stickers, and as flyers, leaflets etc.
Ask for donations to enable you to keep new posters coming - you‘d get them, I bet. A powerful image, spread widely around by anti-Islamist underground, is worth more than 100,000,000 words. Art has played a vital role in every struggle against totalitarianism - your work and its message needs to reach a wider audience.
Hehe. Hey, if people want to download those images, they've always been free.
People don't support real efforts to confront Islam anyway. I can't express how tired I am right now.
As I understand it, unless this book were an actual koran written in Arabic, it is NOT the moslem "holy" book. They don't believe in translations, so English versions of the koran are usually called "interpretations" . Therefore, if this is an English koran, it's NOT sacred and it IS just another book-and if the accused owned the book, the only issue is why he put it down a toilet not on his property! (That does sound like a criminal mischief charge is appropriate-putting books down toilets can cause major plumbing problems and/or flooding.)
Furthermore, although the man's actions were referred to a Hate Crimes unit, it does not read as if he's being CHARGED with a hate crime-"criminal mischief and aggravated harassment". That "aggravated harassment" bit needs elucidation and could be a Bad Sign, but that part about "both hate crimes" sounds a bit weaselly to me, as (so far...) the man is NOT being charged with a hate crime-is it possible that the reporter is trying to put a spin on the situation, because s/he HOPES the man will be charged with a hate crime?
Whats CAIR?
Hmmm...
Burn our flag=free speech
Burn a bible=free speech
Burn a koran=hate crime
Nope, no double-standard here!
(/sarc)
H76p-
CAIR =
http://cairforterrorists.blogspot.com
Link at bottom for "anti-CAIR" will help inform you further.
The irony here is that the Qur'an is a hate crime in itself.
Out of curiosity, I wonder if these were Da'wa Qur'ans, which are English-only and intended for westerners, or if they are Arabic Qur'ans.
If English, why the fuss? Muslims continually insist that an Enlish "Qur'an" is not a true Qur'an, so who could be offended by any act against such a thing?
If Arabic, I would ask whether the "offender" understands Arabic writing. If not it should be easy enough to argue that he had no way of knowing that this was a Qur'an. Maybe an act of hate against Arabs, but this would need to be argued.
Anyway, he should be up on charges for minor mischief in the way of vandalism. I personally hate it when people throw garbage into the toilets. They should be made to clean public toilets for a month.
"liberals and what utter hypocrites and frauds they are"
This is precisely the kind of opaque generalization that drives many would-be supporters away from this site, at a time when we can't afford to lose allies. As I've said many times before, jihad isn't a left-versus-right issue, it's a stupidity issue, and there's plenty of that at the highest levels of government right now. We--meaning the two sides of the political divide (I'm on the left) need to unite against the common threat, not snipe at one another. This is an anti-jihad site, not an anti-liberal site. Let's keep our priorities in sight.
P.S.--that "obstruction of plumbing" comment is freaking hilarious!
vergescue said:
"Actually someone needs to found a nonprofit organization providing free legal counsel in cases where the special accomodation or treatment of Islam is at stake...a sort of anti-jihad equivalent to the American Center for Law and Justice.
I bet the donations for such an organization would pour in."
A sensational idea. There are a few organizations like the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education that are trying to do something to protect the rights of individuals to express themselves in academic settings. They don't have on-staff lawyers or a budget to hire lawyers, like CAIR, but they do seem to be able to refer people to the lawyers and are involved in publicizing egregious violations of individual rights in education. Too bad they are not better funded, and too bad there are not organizations to offer a broader range of help to people who are unfairly targeted by CAIR et al. There do seem to be a few lawyers like the one who represented Andrew Whitehead or Lee Kaplan who take on these cases on principle.
But, by and large, there is not the same infrastructure for defense or counter-offense that the Gulf State-funded Islamists have, e.g. CAIR. Until those who oppose this kind of injustice come up with the money to defend those who are persecuted in this way, it's going to be a hit-or-miss thing. Hit, if the accused/persecuted individual happens to randomly find a lawyer willing to help pro bono and miss otherwise.
If the person accused/persecuted has to pay normal legal defense fees of about 300/hour, CAIR and such like will be able to silence its critics because it can simply afford to run them into financial ruin unless they capitulate.
On the bright side, CAIR has not seemed to win any of the defamation lawsuits it has brought against individuals, but we'd need to ask Andrew Whitehead of Anti-CAIR what the cost was to him to be sued by CAIR, financially, professionally, emotionally and in every other way.
There needs to be a real and well-funded organization to defend against this kind of stuff. The question is, without Gulf State zealots on our side, who will fund it?
angryeagle it is the toilet that should feel violated for having an unholy Koran placed in it. They may never be able to cleanse it of the filth from the Koran now.
The saddest thing about this story is that it is a barometer of how unsafe the world has become to western civilization.
Whether in the US, Canada, Great Britain, or anywhere else it seems, we are flying the flag of surrender.
It really is time to remove these ridiculous hate crimes laws from the books. They fly in the face of reason and only serve to quash freedom of speech and expression.
The West is committing suicide--and is content to do so. This baffles me more than anything.
Sorry about the extended link. I guess I didn't close with the .
9-11 was a galvanizing moment but half of us didn’t recognize it. The other half have and we are under full scale assault from all sides. The islamists and their allies can see that they have us split and they are pulling out all the stops to crush us. The islamists are not the only ones though, every other disaffected fringe group primarily leftist malcontents have piled on as well. A frenzy of jihadist/islamist/leftist activity is the result. So far we are holding up well and winning a good number of fights in spite of the size and well placed power of the enemy within. I like to equate where we are today with where Churchill and his followers were in the late 1930’s, back then they must have felt a lot like we do now. So when you get tired and you feel like you are marching in place remember his words, this is not the end, this is not the beginning of the end, it is however the end of the beginning.
"A frenzy of jihadist/islamist/leftist activity is the result."
Again, the implication here is that liberals are to blame for jihad. Both sides have proven incapable of stemming the tide. Let's leave the partisan sniping to other websites. We need to stand together on this. Jihadists visiting this website must be grinning with glee upon seeing how divided we are.
LOL
Morality is not relative.
Our standards are not relative.
We don't compromise our standards to make relativists feel better about theirs...that's what got us into the problem to begin with (the same one the relativists are trying to deny to make us try to accommodate them onto the bandwagon, and aren't fooling anyone).
That kind of "would-be"s we have an overabundance of...and don't need.
As Patton said:
"I'd rather have a german division in front of me than a french one behind me".
With allies like that, we've no need for enemies.
First-hand voice of experience.
;-)
If you don’t like what leftists are doing take it up with them. Shooting the messenger does not work. I don’t know what your idea of a liberal is but today it is associated with anti Americanism.
I would wager that if you and I debated policy you would come out no more liberal than I yet you claim the tag of liberal for yourself. The leftists have hijacked what used to be liberals if you don’t want to face that fine, but don’t tell me what to write and not to write and I will do the same with you. In the meantime I will continue to call a spade a spade or an anti American leftist islamist. I don’t think you fit in with the present liberal group, you seem more in the area of my group, patriotic responsible policy truth seeking Americans for America.
This is not a victory for CAIR per se, this is a victory for the Left that introduced the concept of the thought crime into our society two decades ago. Remember, this is not PACE disciplining a student, this is the police arresting this man and charging him. The police are now enforcing de facto sharia law in America. At least the first bit of sharia law. The dress codes and stonings will come later.
Robert, give up the fight and go fishing. While it is possible to spread the word about islam, it is not possible to deconstruct what the Left has created. What you are up against is not CAIR, but the institution of political correctness and by extension, the institution of criminal law, for the Left now has the police to do their bidding. In the '60s, they fought the police. Now, they are the police.
You can't change that, Robert. All of your educating is moot against that. It is not a question of changing perceptions by educating the common man - even if you could educate enough of them. In a thought crime police state, the common man is not the power. The Left has created an all-encompassing power structure, starting with the indoctrination in the public schools, to the finishing of that indoctrination in the universities, to the government offices that oversee the running of our daily affairs, to the politians that pander to the pressure groups, to the legislators that write new laws, to the police that enforce them, to the judges that rubber stamp them.
In order for your crusade, to save our society from becoming islamized, to be successful, you would first have to deconstruct society as it has been created in the past three decades. Then and only then would educating the masses about islam have any real effect, for only then would the masses have the power to effect change. As it stands, you can be fully aware of the horrible nature of islam, as this man surely is, yet what good does it do, when such knowledge, and emotional response to that knowledge, is merely grounds for arrest.
Your philosophy is dead on...but your willingness to capitulate is way premature.
All the proverbial cards haven't been played yet...
not by a long shot...
...and we haven't played "cowboys & islamists" yet.
At the rate the brownshirts of the political correctness gestapo are going, that threshhold is fast approaching...and one more terrorist hit here, and the public is...going...to...SNAP. That same public has more guns than population.
(you'll never see that in the MSM)
never lose faith
never lose hope
NEVER SAY DIE
One thing to remember is that the West is still in a state of flux adjusting to the new realities imposed by CAIR and the like. I think that CAIR is already on the way out. It's been exposed as being an offspring of Hamas fundraisers, having a miniscule membership and being funded by Gulf State sources. More and more, it is being viewed for what it is: a foreign-funded subversive organization whose main MO is making the US Sharia-friendly. Its days of legitimacy are numbered.
CAIR has done the US a great service, though. It has raised awareness of the danger of legal Jihad. It has motivated the creation of a nucleus of a anti-Jihad legal community. We will soon see lawyers specialized in anti-Jihad and counter-spurious Islamophobia lawsuits. If CAIR dries up soon, all the better. If not, there will be an "Anti-Islamist" legal specialization that will evolve, alongside all the other legal specializations.
The NYPD or other police may respond under undo pressure to this or that complaint now, but they will get nowhere. In 5 years, they will be tuning this crap out.
Every victory by Islamists is accompanied by instant demands for more. The weak point of Islamist organizations like CAIR is that they are maximalists. The overplay every hand they have. This will backfire on them.
The West has history and human nature on its side. (1) Crying wolf, which is essentially the CAIR tactic, leads to a desensitization to the crying. (2) Orthodox Islam as presently configured has nothing to offer most people, except those who are seduced by absolutism and totalitarianism (a condition that does not afflict most people except in cases of extreme economic uncertainty if there is a charismatic leader involved a la Hitler). (3) Every totalitarian ideology has met its demise. (4) Most people who are not yet intimidated by totalitarianism and its threats act somewhat rationally.
Within 5 years, the tide will turn. It will not be the Koran flusher who is arrested then, but those who get their panties in a wad over it.
I do my part by talking to people I work with. I have opened some eyes. Its not much but if everyone here does that, its a ripple effect. Its not so much for us but educating our children so they dont buy the bs the libs sell them. Its a tough battle but one we can win. Plus, when we get hit again, the public will remember who made it easier for it to happen.
It's about freedom folks. I think people are idiots for burning their nation's flag, however they have a right to do it if they hate their country. It is not a crime to hate your country as long as you do not engage in sedition or treason.
As for burning the Koran, if the Koran was the guys, what is the problem, except perhaps plugging the toilets. Sure its disrespectful to Muslims, however I have not seen a rash of displays by Muslims of values that Westerners hold dear to them.
Bibles are regularly burned and disposed of by Saudi Arabian authorities who find them on people traveling to their country. Most Muslim countries have little real respect for their religious minorities.
Whose Quran was it? Did he snatch it out of the hands of someone or steal it out of a car or did he buy it and then trash it?
If he bought it then he can wipe his behind with it and break no laws. If it wasn't his then he committed a crime. The hate crimes charge is a little too thought police for me, but this would result in a fine and repayment (probably just repayment and apology) in most cases if it were just a normal act of taking a random book from someone and throwing it in the toilet out of spite.
Let me get this straight. Okay. Mapelthorpe places a crucifix in a jar of his own urine and that is "art." The New York Times reprints the picture of a portrait of the Virgin Mary covered in dung and flies in an article explaining why it won't print the Danish cartoons and that is "freedom of the press." Muslims and dleftists burn the flag freely in demonstrations. Saudis shred Bibles in paper shredders in front of their owners, then expell the owners. Okay. I'm glad I understand things now.
This is not a hate crime but merely a freedom of expression. We have every right to criticize Islam and even desecrating the Koran. I remember some Muslims burned and desecrated the Star-Spangled Banner! Were they charged for it? No! Remember some Muslims desecrated the Bible? Were they charged? No! Citizens of the Western World... Beware You are losing your freedom of speech and expression. If I were the judge on this case I'd throw it out. This man should have charges dropped. He was only exercising his right to freedom of expression.
All thanks to political correctness...the absolute opposite of common sense.
Like cancer, it must be eradicated, or it will kill us.
"don’t tell me what to write and not to write and I will do the same with you."
tgusa, I never told you not to write something--and if you thought I did, you got me all wrong. I was simply pointing out that a battle against jihad requires unity, which stands in stark contrast to the partisan sniping that has often infected this site (and I'm certainly not absolving myself of this sin). You're welcome to write anything you'd like. No need to respond to a mildly (but, I think, respectfully) critical comment by claiming censorship. What I would like is to see intelligent debate as opposed to "liberals are un-patriotic" or "conservatives are fascists" or whatever else has sometimes passed for cogent discourse in these pages. My comment, though, was merely a suggestion.
And yes, death to political correctness. Call a terrorist a terrorist, for crying out loud.
The world has gone mad. Please let me get off.
breezy55, why get off now? The fun's just beginning! I say stay and enjoy the madness for a while. Have a few drinks. I know I will.
Throwing a Qu’ran in the toilet intact is a waste of resources (paper).
Instead, the pages should be removed from the binder and neatly stacked next to the sit-down toilet.
Somebody is going to make a lot of money by coming out with toilet paper featuring a Quranic verse on each sheet. I suggest the following rotation:
2:10 Disbelievers are diseased.
2:99 Disbelievers are evil people.
2:104 For disbelievers is a painful doom.
2:171 Disbelievers are deaf, dumb, and blind.
3:28 Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference of believers.
3:73 Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim.
3:48 Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you.
4:89 Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.
4:63 Oppose those who refuse to follow Muhammad.
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
4:144 Do not choose disbelievers as friends.
5:51 Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them.
5:51 Jews and Christians are losers.
5:60 Allah turned unbelievers into apes and swine.
5:59 Jews and Christians are evil people.
5:57 Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians.
6:106 Stay away from disbelievers.
8:55 The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers.
9:5 Slay the disbelievers wherever you find them.
9:28 Disbelievers are unclean.
9:30 Christians and Jews are perverts. Allah himself fights against them.
Alright, you talked me into it. You silver tongued devil, you.
I did a little research by googling "hate crimes new york"
I was a prosecuter long ago when these hate crime statutes began appearing in various statutes (circa '85- '86)
"Hate crimes" is a quite misleading term actually. There is no separate set of acts one can commit to charged with a certain hate crime.
Hate Crime laws are ONLY about additional punishment for existing crimes committed upon certain classes of victims.
There must be an existing underlying crime committed before hate crime penalties can be imposed.
For example, murder has been murder forever.
The same murder only becomes a "hate crime" , or better phrase is a "hate crime murder", when the prosecutor seeks additional penalties upon conviction.
In this case the arrested was charged with criminal mischief and aggravated harrassment which are already crimes on the books in and of themselves. If found guilty of those crimes, the defendant can have his sentence increased.
Now I am only trying to clarify what hate crime law is about. I am not defending the city, state or Pace. Definitely more facts are needed to make a further assessment and if anyone learns of any further particular facts ( like getting hands on a police report) they should post them or send to Robert and perhaps he can do an "Update" for this thread.
Questions that need answering:
Who owned the book that was thrown in the toilet? Was it a library book or privately owned? Did placing the book into the toilet cause plumbing problems? Where there any words spoken during the act or written in the book that can be attributed to Schmulevich?
In ANY event, even upon the worse set of facts imagineable, if I was living in NY and a member of the NY Bar, I might take this case pro bono, depending on whether Schmulevich would be willing to make an even bigger statement by taking this case to trial. In the scheme of things what was done is pretty minor compared to what goes on in the criminal courts in manhatten.
The underlying offenses (mischief & harrassment) are non-violent misdeamor offenses, and as long as he didin't have a previous record, it is quite unlikely that he would face jail time.
Of course an attorney has an obligation to represent the client and should not try to make political statements at the client's expense, but if the client was willing, and it sounds like this guy would be, I would take the opportunity to use this forum, right smack in the middle of the media capital of the world. (I'd be on with Hannity and O'Rielly every night!!), to make a very loud statement about the merits of his actions.
As my defense I would put the Koran on trial. I might fashion a self-defense argument, a first amendment argument, maybe even an insanity defense ( Islam is taking over the world! I see them everywhere I go!, which, when you think of it, isn't really so crazy). I would call experts (and subpeona Robert Spencer, of course) to explain the contents and therefore the message of the Koran. I would try to show that it is the most hateful, bigoted, mysogynist , violent, homophobic, anti-jew, anti Christian, misundertood piece of fiction ever written, and it was trashed becuase of the defednant's love for his classmates well being and his love for country, freedom and democracy, not out of anything hateful.
Foehammer,
The UAC, United American Committee http://www.unitedamericancommittee.org/ is a good place to start. They are organized and doing things. I suggest MASSIVE, NATION-WIDE, PUBLIC KORAN BURNINGS here in about a month. They also have a chat area called jihadchat. http://www.jihadchat.com/
You're right, we gotta spread the word to the streets.
pez, it's a great idea, but I think you're erring by voicing it so openly and thus running the risk of someone stealing it and making lots of money. I say patent it as quickly as possible so you can cash in before someone else does!
Personally the kind of protest I envision has no Quran burnings, but has very well done, accurate, utterly fact-filled and uniformly approved picket signs (e.g. how Protest Warrior does things) in wave upon wave upon wave upon wave down the streets of Washington, DC. Media all over the damn place.
What the world needs to see is a million Americans standing up and saying loud and clear and peacefully -- "The USA will never be an Islamic nation and will never accept the surrender of our way of life to Sharia. If you don't want to live as an American under a secular AND WESTERN-based government, then get out. No ideology will ever be welcome here that means to destroy the U.S. Constitution."
With the right combination of signs and banners this message can be delivered easily.
I read on Foehammer's blog a comment by someone suggesting a more positive theme to the event. Instead of making the focus anti Islam, we affirm the United States Constitution.
Sept. 27 1787, the US Constitution was presented to the states for ratification. What if we "re-ratify" the Constitution by having "delegates" from every state appear (as many as possible) and we peacefully list our grievances (including Islamification of our country, secure borders, activist judges, multi culti pcness in education, no-good bums in DC, the media...) on Sept. 27, 2008?
We say the Pledge of Allegiance, we pass out informed pamphlets and brochures, and we demand those in our government listen to us and that WE THE PEOPLE, WANT AMERICA BACK!
I seem to recall that someone got an art award for putting a cross in a glass of urine, so I would imagine if someone put a bible in a toilet they would probably get an art award too.
This is all getting very depressing.
Pez, useful quotes. Perhaps a more strategic approach than flushing korans (I don't like the idea of paying good money for it!) would be to print out relevant bits, highlight them and tack them up on the inside of toilet doors and other contemplative places for people to meditate upon.
Alternatively, if one wanted 'authorities' to be uncertain whether they had been tacked up by muslims or others, only display them in less dirty places than toilets. Public notice boards come to mind...
I was about to e-mail PACE with my disapproval, but will wait until we know more of the facts.
Funny, I have read the Kuran twice now, once in German and once in english, and the only good place I could find in my apartment to read it was in the bathroom while sitting on the throne. Apparently, Kuran-reading is good for the bowels.
Does this mean that I committed a hate crime?
Innocent grin :)
Heck, ya think that's bad?
I've committed an even worse evil in their eyes...
I've read it more than once...and without hesitation reject it in all its forms.
I'm an infidel of the worst kind...and damned proud of it.
"Lan Astaslem!"
;-)
Why don't more people get it -- the truth about Islam???
Thoroughly frustrating -- our lives are at stake!
Count me in on a March in DC.
What can I do to spread the word in the meantime besides tacking Koran's to the dogs' favorite potty trees ...
Ideas?
Just do a search for Muslims desecrate Bible and you get all kinds of examples...some desecrations are state sanctioned.
(CNSNews.com) -- A U.S.-based think tank critical of the Saudi government has added its voice to allegations that authorities in the kingdom routinely destroy Bibles.
"As a matter of official policy, the government either incinerates or dumps Bibles, crosses and other Christian paraphernalia," the Saudi Institute said in an article posted on its website.
"Although considered as holy in Islam and mentioned in the Koran dozens of times, the Bible is banned in Saudi Arabia, and is confiscated and destroyed by government officials," it said.
Last week a Christian pastor who worked in Saudi Arabia during the 1990s told the Cybercast News Service it was widely known among underground Christians there that Bibles were confiscated -- and sometimes shredded -- by Saudi customs officials at ports of entry.
The Saudi Embassy in Washington has yet to respond to emailed queries about its policies regarding the Bibles and the shredding allegations.
Saudi Arabia was one of the first governments to protest after Newsweek reported earlier this month that U.S. troops had thrown a Koran into a toilet to fluster Muslim terror suspects being detained by the U.S. military at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.
What a crock...
The desecration of the Church of the Nativity...
The Palestinian gunmen holed up in the Church of the Nativity seized church stockpiles of food and "ate like greedy monsters" until the food ran out, while more than 150 civilians went hungry. They also guzzled beer, wine, and Johnnie Walker scotch that they found in priests' quarters, undeterred by the Islamic ban on drinking alcohol. The indulgence lasted for about two weeks into the 39-day siege, when the food and drink ran out, according to an account by four Greek Orthodox priests who were trapped inside for the entire ordeal....
The Orthodox priests and a number of civilians have said the gunmen created a regime of fear.
Even in the Roman Catholic areas of the complex there was evidence of disregard for religious norms. Catholic priests said that some Bibles were torn up for toilet paper, and many valuable sacramental objects were removed. "Palestinians took candelabra, icons and anything that looked like gold," said a Franciscan, the Rev. Nicholas Marquez from Mexico.
AntiPETA:
Go to Foehammer's blog for more on the DC 2008 March:
http://foehammer.net/2007/07/wanted-a-million-marchers-to-stop-islamisation-of-the-usa.html
This I get a kick out of...
http://religion.gaynewsblog.net/2007/07/gay-artist-burns-rare-6000000-koran-to.html
Hey NY you want to get yourself blown up again, have at it I wont lose any sleep over it, just keep your bombs and your anti American garbage to yourselves.
Posted by: tgusa
Hey tgusa, your comments were rude and insensitive. Lots of patriotic and hardworking people were killed on 9/11 and no one asked for it. We are number 1 target because we are the financial capital. If you want to personally hate New Yorkers that's okay but on these issues, maybe you could keep your prejudice to yourself.