Quite a few government officials have had a great deal to say lately about the threat this summer. And here's another. "Natl. Intel Director Worried About Terror Sleeper Cells in U.S.," by John Hendren for ABC News:
The nation's top intelligence official today went further than ever before in outlining what he described as a heightened threat of an al Qaeda attack on American soil.
"Their attempt is to cause mass casualties," said Adm. Michael McConnell, director of national intelligence, on NBC's "Meet the Press" program. "Second [priority] is political and possibly economic disruption."
Just days ago, a new National Intelligence Estimate found al Qaeda has strengthened its ability to attack the United States. McConnell said al Qaeda is seeking the means to launch chemical, biological and possibly nuclear attacks. But the likeliest threat is harder to detect.
"What we see currently is primarily a focus on explosives -- explosives that can generate a large explosion, but they're put together with commercially available material," he said.
McConnell says small numbers of al Qaeda operatives are in this country raising funds. But he said he knows of no al Qaeda cells in the country that are capable of launching a strike at this time.
"I worry that there are sleeper cells in the U.S.," McConnell said. "I do not know."
Michael Scheuer, who once ran the CIA's al Qaeda desk, says the Bush administration is not merely fear mongering.
"The intelligence community is being very frank about what it knows so it doesn't get Shanghaied or blamed for something that wasn't its fault, as it did after 9/11," Scheuer said.
It's nice of them to be frank, not in order to cover their own hides, but to encourage public vigilance and cooperation (albeit with the possibility of being sued). In any case, public scrutiny of how well the government is doing its job is a right and, indeed, a duty.
Whats to worry? Our border is secured and if they slip in, our ciitzens will report suspicious behavior to the proper authorities. Right? Right?
I will await CAIR's statement that the real threat to American democracy is Islamophobia and I'm sure all those wonderful moderate Muslims out there in the American heartland will denounce Al Qaeda in unambiguous language. Oh, and the Detroit Lions will also win the Super Bowl in January. Oh yeah.
"I worry that there are sleeper cells in the U.S.," McConnell said. "I do not know."
"i do not know", and this is a response? we need these people in power? do they represent us? do you want them to represent us?
he worries? poor bastard.
Did churchill ever release a statement in which he stated that he worried about the Nazi threat?
get rid of these pathethic bastards.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
And what is the deterrence going to be, and how will that deterrence be made known? Surely any further attack on Americans has to be answered not by means of what is essentially a glorified police action, attempting to round up only those immediately involved, those who trained and supported them. Retaliation must he very large, and must do equal damage to the Camp of Islam. The Al-Saud, the Al-Thani, the Al-Sabah, the Al-Maktoum, and all the others must be made aware that their economic and other interests will be damaged, damaged far more severely than we have so far been damaged, and that such damage will be inflicted in all kinds of ways, including a halt to the availability of goods and services, the seizure of enemy-owned assets (just as such assets were seized during World War II), and that will include the privately-owned real estate of various Saudi princelings (could that be why Prince Bandar is selling off his Aspen estate for $135 million, the estate for which he had blown to bits the top of a mountain to improve his view") and whatever can be reached by American and other NATO allies. The days of visiting the West for medical care and education should come to an end -- wouldn't you, if you were told you could no longer go to any Western doctors, begin to worry, begin to think about modifying your behavior so that you could see the best oncologists and cardiologists and bring your children to Western doctors instead of Arab ones? You would.
And that's a start. Other measures could include seizing the very large, and very conveniently placed, oilfields of Saudi Arabia, holding whatever oil revenues are obtained piously "in trust," after first deducting the amount of economic damage that Saudi support, over the past 30 years -- support for mosques and madrasas where the most fanatical Wahhabi propaganda has been available and been distributed, support for campaigns of Da'wa targetted at the psychically and economically marginal, campaigns to buy up Western hirelings in all the capitals of the West, and much more -- amounting to nearly $100 billion in the past 30 years -- has caused, for there is a direct relationship between the Saudis and the spread of the most virulent form of Islam.
Deterrence, to be effective, must be understood on all sides. The Western world has not made clear to the rulers and peoples of Muslim states, nor to Muslims now living in the Bilad al-kufr and working night and day at their Taqiyya-and-Tu-Quoque in order to prevent Infidels from learning just a bit too much about Islam, and about the history of Islamic conquest over 1350 years, that all kinds of measures can be, and will be, taken. The Western publics are far far ahead of their governments, and the deep unhappiness with both parties in this country, with the hallucinating Bush bringing "freedom" to "ordinary moms and dads" and the Democrats who oppose the war but apparently not for the right reasons -- that is, in order to more intelligently constrain Islam that can be achieved best by leaving, not staying in, Iraq.
Western governments, led by the Americans, should start consulting with one another on this collective threat (surely the recent elections should mean that NATO will have to meet without Turkey, no longer a fit member of an organization that will have to direct its main efforts at constraining Islam) of the world-wide Jihad, and on the Money Weapon, campaigns of Da'wa, and demographic conquest within the Bilad al-kufr, especially in the hitherto negiligently compliant states of Western Europe. One wants the Muslim would-be terrorists, and those who support them, to be made aware of what, beyond physical destruction to certain Muslim lands, will take place, what damage will be done to the interests of Muslims in Paris and London, in Dearborn and Falls Church, what will be done with some -- not all-- of the oilfields, what will be done with reachable Arab and Muslim assets in the West, what will be done to close down Muslim insetitutions all over the West that inevitably offer support and encouragement for the Jihad.
The leaders of the Soviet Union knew what would happen if they did thus and so. The Muslims have been led to believe that very little will happen -- oh, hundreds of billions may be spent, in vain attempts to cure Muslim "poverty" (see Afghanistan) and to "reconstruct" an entire country (see Iraq), and to bring Western ways, and the pollyannish panacea of "free elections" which are the main way that "freedom" can be brought, in Bush's view, to "ordinary moms and dads" in the Middle East. But the Iraqi body politic has already clearly rejected the attempt to successfully transplant the organ of Western freedom. Time to try something that makes sense.
The reason the Arab states do not attack Israel at the moment is because of the deterrent effect of the IDF, and what the IDF can do. That's it. It has nothing to do with the Camp David Accords, nothing to do with a change of heart -- how could Muslims, if they were true believers, ever accept an Infidel state such as Israel, on land once part of Dar al-Islam, a state that furthermore is in the middle of that so-called "Arab world"? It is simply impossible, not thinkable. Deterrence, however, is not unthinkable -- it exists, and it works.
The same can and should be done by the American and other Western governments. They have to start dropping all kinds of hints, as to the damage that can be inflicted on Muslim interests, everywhere. And they might do best to talk about reducing the Money Weapon (or inflicting economic damage in turn on the Muslim states), closing down campaigns of Da'wa and countering the effect of past campaigns, and recognizing demographic conquest as a key instrument of Jihad, historically and at present, and not only calling a complete halt to Muslim immigration into the West, but reversing it, by means that are not only perfectly justifiable when one is fighting such a comlicated war of self-defense in which, in a move without precedent in history, large numbers of people who are by unshakeable faith unalterably opposed to the continued dominance, in our own, Infidel lands of our own legal and political institutions, our own solicitousness for the individual rather than the collective, and for freedoms that are the product of centuries of thought and statecraft, have been allowed by the millions to settle within our lands, in a collective fit of ignorance and historical amnesia. In such circumstances, those who sense their own responsibiity, even in the midst of such present decadence, to preserve a civilizational heritage that can be undone by mere numbers, will take what measures are necessary, and will do well to learn of how often, in the past, even the most tolerant and advanced regimes -- such as that in Czechoslovakia in 1946 -- undertook measures (the Benes Decree) that no one at the time, and no one respectable since, has criticized, much less deplored.
I think I hear snoring.
P.S.-
I'm not sure if it is the sleeper cells awakening...
... or our somnambulistic security officials.
"I worry that there are sleeper cells in the U.S.," McConnell said. "I do not know."
I know, Admiral, and I'm not director of national intelligence. This country is importing Muslims from all over the Islamic world and resettling them in all our major cities. Our borders are wide open to anyone who want's to come accros, and our government seems determined not to secure them.
It's a no brainer, sir, they're here, and many Americans will likely die because of the criminal neglect of the United States government. Period.
You are right Hugh. The Big Stick theory. A theory so direct, yet, so simple; but they cannot grasp it. It does not bode well for us plebes.
The Big Stick doctrine is a great one to have. I do gain some confort knowing that, after the fact, all hell we be released on the enemy. Unfortunately, how many innocent civilians will have died before that happens?
Hugh, of all the posts you've written at this site I truly believe the one listed above is the best you've ever penned. IF 'the people in charge' would do something RIGHT NOW even remotely similar to what you've suggested we'd be a heck of a lot further ahead in this fight. You're written what so many people have figured out from common sense- yet why can't (or why won't) the 'people in charge' take simiilar action?
Sad to say, I think it will require one or more of our cities being vaporized, and Lord only knows how many dead Americans, before that sort of action is taken.
More and more these days...I am so thankful that the current mindset of war fighting wasn't around in 1941. I have nothing but priase for our fighting men and women- God bless every one of them!!- but not much more than contempt for 'the people in charge'.
Pray, Plan, and Prepare to take care of yourselves and your families.
Benes Decree: Named after the wartime president of Czechoslovakia, this was the ordered expulsion of the Sudeten Germans following the German defeat in WW2.
Just ban Muslims from entering the country and expelling/interning the ones already here, Admiral. Stop acting so helpless you wimp.
You're written what so many people have figured out from common sense- yet why can't (or why won't) the 'people in charge' take simiilar action?
Posted by livefreeordie!
The people in charge don't take similar action even though it's necessary to keep our country secure, because of the oil we need to run it. We currently purchase the majority of our oil from Venezuela and Chavez has taken sides with Iran because Bush won't invite him to the White House. I think we only get 20% or so from Saudi Arabia, but even that 20% is a huge amount. The Democrats keep us from drilling in Alaska. If we start sabre rattling with the Saudi's then they'll cut us off. Without the oil we can't transport goods across the country or get people to where they need to be and keep the country running efficiently. It's a no win circle.
So far, it would be easier said than done...but that's changing...rapidly.
Here's a URL worth bookmarking & keeping track...
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_level_imports/current/import.html
Hugh: I like your line of thinking. It reminds me of what General Grant said in 1864 to several of his associates when they told him all the terrible things General Lee could do to the Army of the Potomac. Grant replied with some annoyance that his subordinates should stop worrying about all the hypotheticals that Lee might engage in and start thinking about all the destructive actions the Union army could inflict on the Army of Northern Virginia. You understand this line of reasoning very well, so my compliments.
Now, if only most in America, and the West in general, would start thinking this way, I'd say we have as good a shot at victory as did Grant's Union forces. Oh, success here will also necessitate a clear understanding, as Lincoln and Grant had, that the enemy is the enemy and is not to be bargained with but defeated in its entirety. One last note, I want to make it perfectly clear that I am in no way comparing the Confederacy to the Islamic world. Such a comparison would be a great slander on the Confederacy, wrong on secession and slavery though it was, but still far more noble in so many ways than the damn Islamic world. That's all.
Every Muslim in America is a potential terrorist. they cannot be trusted. Start building internment camps; and mass deportations NOW!
OT
I have read this site almost from inception, but have just recently started to add comments. I want to wish leon the best at his citizenship. Welcome to the fold. It is long time coming, and a tad late. But, welcome.
Sleeper cells? Here in the US? No shit?! I just cant believe it. Quick, someone needs to call the president so he can protect our borders.
Wait a minute, isn't Islam a religion of peace? Oh, okay then, never mind. I guess I'm being islamaphobic.
Whats to worry? Our border is secured and if they slip in, our ciitzens will report suspicious behavior to the proper authorities. Right? Right?
Posted by: Elric66 [TypeKey Profile Page] at July 22, 2007 9:41 PM
+++++++++++++++++=
this would be so funny if it wasn't so sad.
are you prepared for what is coming.
what will you do when the nukes, wmd's and bombs go off in your town??????
have you planned your escape route from work home???
have you planned how your children will get home, or where they will go????
do you have at least one months food supply at home????
do you have a generator to keep your frig cold until you can cook up all of the food.... do ou have three plus 5-gallon cans of gasoline to run the generator???
do you have three or more full gas cannisters for your grill???
do you have a supply of wood of your fireplace, for it just may be a nuclear winter.............
do you have firearms to protect your family, neighbor hood, city sate and America???? if you do not, get them for with these all other preparations may be futile for someone that is armed can take theme from you..........
do you have plywood and plastic to seal up your windows...... have you cut the plywood to fit your window openings....... do you have slots cut in the plywood to see out of????
if you take scrips, do you have a 90 day supply of medicines that you need....
this list is pages long........ go on line and look up survival.....
if America is nuked what will you do??? how will you survive??? there will be no food in the stores for a while... do you watch the aftermath in New Orleans after the hurricane????
are you prepared armed and ready??????
God bless yall and God bless America Israel England Canada Australia Darfur and our fighting forces across the world, keep us free and destroy our enemies.
The Texican.
Live Free and Die Free.
God Family America Freedom the only choice at any cost.
Hugh - Great declaration of what we should do. And Breezy55’s “Big Stick” label is right on. Every American should read it.
But where is Teddy Roosevelt? He is not around any more. And at Defense, there is no Blackjack Pershing.
Instead of the Big Stick, the post-attack speech to the nation will be something like this:
“Remember, Islam is a religion of peace that has been high-jacked by a small minority of terrorists. American Muslims are upright members of our community who love their country. And we are going to go after those terrorists wherever we find them (except of course Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, and the Gulf States), and we will bring them to justice. You just wait and see. We’ll bring them to justice….”
This speech will not be from the Rose Garden, but from that big mosque Bush was at a few weeks ago.
“ Bring them to justice?” Let’s see now, just how did American justice under left-wing lawyers and judges in fact work out for some of these guys? Jose Padilla comes to mind – he is still gaming the system years after he was captured. And how about Sami al Arian? Free as a bird. Just recently a circuit court judge overturned some of the Patriot Act. I have lost track of the others who were caught and are now running around loose. It would be interesting to see a list of these guys and the occasional female.
Sadly, I do not think there is anyone within the Beltway any more who can or would apply the Big Stick, even post-attack. I think the Beltway water supply is infected with a virus that eats away the gut. There is a distinct shortage of guts in the entire town. Thirty years of secularism, relativism, multiculturalism, me-ism, political correctness and Wahabbi conditioning has created a bitter harvest of know-nothings and do-nothings. They do and say anything and everything except face up to the problem. Kakistocrats.
The borders are wide open because that's how the government want it,
otherwise they would be properly sealed!, so why does the government
want the borders open? well it could be that they want to dilute the
population so that when they decide to bring on the one world
government they will find little opposition as the majority of voters
will not be true Americans, but millions of immigrants who would not
really care.
The same is true for Europe, break down all National borders by the
use of heavy unimpeded immigration which make the possibilty of the
one world government a heck of a lot easier don't you think?
This also works for the integration of the USA, Canada and Mexico!
So is terrorism, and an open border a control mechanism to enable the
true powers of the world to take over? or is there another sinister
undercurrent going on?
Silence in the Western Media: Violent clashes over East Berlin’s first mosque
July 23rd, 2007
That’s why this is only being reported in the ‘Middle Eastern Times’
Mysterious, isn’t it?
‘Right Wing Extremism’ is to blame, of course:
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/07/23/silence-in-the-western-media-violent-clashes-over-east-berlins-first-mosque/
Hugh:
Nice ideas...only one problem-it's only half the solution.
I offer this not as a substitute, but as a supplement...
None of this will be possible without rescinding the order preventing open communication between the FBI & CIA...that's half the battle. It's still in effect, and protected like a bloodsport.
They're prevented from communicating with each other-they can talk to DHS individually, but not to each other, and DHS cannot divulge, by law, to either one what the other says. This is BS.
The person who perpetuated that memo was jamie gorelick...yep, same one who was on the 9/11 commission whitewash (irony of ironies-like having John Gotti doing mob investigations)...under orders from Mr rcok-paper-scissors himself: sandy berg(l)er, in 1995, who got away with far worse himself.
Repeated efforts to rescind it, even with the Republican majority back then were viciously attacked behind closed doors...some almost violently (I know-I was THERE).
...until you get rid of that, which would eliminate half the problem, all those great ideas will remain just that...
If that's done, the rest will come easy...
All of Hugh's proposals to weaken the Camp of Islam, as he puts it are, make perfect sense. That's why they'll never be implemented. Governments do whatever is the stupidest, most counterproductive, short-sighted, politically expedient, save-their-own-butts way they possibly can.
On a local level, there should be NO building permits issued for the construction of any mosque. Vigorous public complaining should be done at any proposal for such. I live in Toronto and am really dismayed at how many of those freakin' things are popping up all around like poisonous mushrooms.
A friend has had the misfortune of having a large mosque go up in her residential neighborhood, it's location totally inappropriate to the dynamics of the area (imo there's NEVER an apropriate place for a mosque in a civil society). She's lived there for many years and told me all the neighbours, Italians, Portuguese and Jamaicans, hate the damn thing. Parking on her street has become nightmare, hordes of mohammedans swarming around the streetcorners all the time, garbage piling up outside the mosque. She said the residents were misled by the city as to what was happening with that property and it went up without proper consultation with the residents.
"But he said he knows of no al Qaeda cells in the country that are capable of launching a strike at this time."
....how does he define "strike".....
We currently purchase the majority of our oil from Venezuela Posted by: Bonniea at July 23, 2007 12:04 AM
This misinformation needs to be cleared up. Canada is the top supplier of oil to the U.S., overtaking Saudi Arabia since around 2000. Alberta oilsands projects send nearly all the oil produced there to the U.S.
http://www.forbes.com/energy/2005/02/17/cz_0217oxan_canadaoil.html
Human nature being 'stiff-necked' as it is, to borrow a biblical term, requires a huge cost to be paid before the body public changes its thinking. People don't want to change or to prepare in large numbers or to think in contingencies. Some aren't capable of it, some are not convinced and some aren't willing to seem 'crazy' in the eyes of the others.
People in my area do think and talk about 'the problem' but what are they to do about it?
The epoch has turned to be sure. We will have to pay a heavy price in lives to get most people to recognize this. Until then it's All About Me and Let the Good Times Roll. People in the United States won't change their thinking and behavior until Black Friday comes. I don't blame them in some regards. America is about the future and material progress... why would we care about a pre-medieval way of thinking when we have the best this world can offer merely a click or phone call away?
Many can see the threat, fewer have planned for contingencies and still fewer have a means to change the situation. But this, like everything else in life, is temporary. The day is coming when heads will roll and the remaining heads will clear. Life is too good for most. This cycle has shown itself over and over throughout history. It may look shiny and modern on the surface, but group dynamics have not changed in 5,000 years. People don't change their nature and that means this nation must pay a heavy price before the people on the whole will face the problem directly.
Human nature being 'stiff-necked' as it is, to borrow a biblical term, requires a huge cost to be paid before the body public changes its thinking.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at July 23, 2007 9:19 AM
You are so right. Our civilization needs an "Intervention". It seems things haven't hit rock bottom yet in order for people to get it. "It's time for hard decisions and tough love". (Judge Matthis).
With all the bickering about this, this succinctly states why they did not know, and it is indeed the political manipulation that has reaped what it has sown:
link 1: http://cicentre.com/Documents/DOC_Wannall_Undermining_Intel.htm
link 2:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=95
The USAPATRIOT Act is nothing more than an appeasing Band-Aid.
We are here today because we have loathed counterintelligence and intelligence, and the supposed excesses corrected during the 1950s and 1960s witch hunts were nothing more than exploited opportunities to neuter the community.
We need an OSS and a Wild Bill Donovan, NOW.
I am certain the enemy has exploited much of the left's open commentary and public disunity toward The President, to include pur suicidal penchant for proving a motherlode of open-source intelligence.
We are here today - and they do not know because we would not let them know.
If I see suspicious activity - I'll happily report it and risk being sued. I'd rather have my family and fellow citizens alive.
Wasn't it said a while ago that there are actual jihadist training camps operating in the US now? Does anyone know if anything's being done about that? Or are the people in Congress content to let these sores fester until something happens?
Human nature = political correctness
Someone should ask (on national TV) the DNI/Admiral what he thinks about immigration, uncontrolled borders, etc. as it relates to the national security of this country. I had the opportunity to hear him speak recently to a group of federal employees and someone asked him about immigration. I paraphrase but he replied that diversity is a good thing, the history of this country, that his prior experience in the private sector demonstrated to him how a mix of people is necessary for success, blah blah blah. Not one word about how uncontrolled immigration, unsecured borders, etc are a potential threat. You could just see that the questioner (and others) was greatly disappointed by the DNI"s answer.
Since nearly all US democratic senators (and presumably most democratic congressmen) are allowing CAIR and other Muslim organizations to bring civil suit against John Doe alerters, calling attention to suspicious activities is now less likely. This is because organizations like CAIR, mostly supported by foreign sources like the Saudi family, can afford to bring a nuisance/punishment suits (not caring about winning)against these John Does who will have to spend time, aggravation and money just to get it thrown out. That is the point of why the failed John Doe amendment was so important and the democrat congressmen well knew it when they voted it out.
The democratic congress is now something of a terrorist support group – your family might get blown up for fear of law suits but the democrats get the Muslim organization’s big donations and the Muslim block vote.
But at your funeral they’ll say fine words about staying strong & vigilant in the face of terrorism.
http://michellemalkin.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/travel.jpg
Bonniea,
Energy policy in the USA is a crazy as border security. Don't try to make sense of it- you might have a stroke.
You are absolutely correct in what you're saying. We're basically paying hush money to real/potential enemies and directly or indirectly funding the jihad. Maybe we aren't getting all that much petroleum from the middle east, but what we don't get is used by allies (like Japan), so western money is getting into their hands irregardless.
By profession I am a geologist. I like oil and gas (to say the least). In my mind, there's no prettier sight than a drilling rig running at night! There are plenty of additional areas to explore right here at home: Alaska, part of the east coast, off the coast of Florida, many areas on land and off the coast of the PDRK (People's Democratic Republic of Kalifornia).
Yet, with all those energy resources on our own soil the tree huggers and co. keep us from exploiting that potential. Sad to say, wells in ANWAR should be coming on line now (or getting really close to on line) if development drilling had started when Bush took office in 2001.
Such projects don't happen overnight. Lots of capital investment money is required; there is NO guarantee of getting anything back; pipelines and specialized machinery (off-shore oil platforms, for example) require a good amount of lead time to design and construct; extreme weather conditions can cause work to proceed slowly.
Would ANWAR and these other areas provide the oil we need to be energy independent? No. Without major conservation efforts I can't see that happening again, although every barrel we produce here at home is one less that we pay a enemy/potential enemy for.
So...in the meantime...we sit here and pay the bad guys to provide what we can't live without. We're funding our own destruction.
Sorry to go on for so long! All of these issues are close to my heart. I love this land, and the people in it. I have faith in the American people, but my faith in 'the people in charge' to make the right choices is approaching zero.
Pray, Plan, and Prepare to take care of yourselves and your families.
Texican,
I think you and could be good friends if we were neighbors. Keep up the good work, and please keep encouraging others to prepare for whatever may come. Prepare for the worst- if less that that happens you'll be OK!
Texican,
I think you and I could be good friends if we were neighbors. Keep up the good work, and please keep encouraging others to prepare for whatever may come. Prepare for the worst- if less that that happens you'll be OK!
Texican,
I think you and I would be good friends if we were neighbors. Keep up the good work, and please keep encouraging others to prepare for whatever may come. Prepare for the worst- if less that that happens you'll be OK!
livefreeordie!: I agree wholeheartedly with you about drilling for more oil here in America and off our coasts. So,thank you for your post. I'm also quite tired of always hearing about what a terrible source of energy oil is. OK, it's not perfect but it's not nearly the rotten phenomenon it's made out to be by the windmill folks, treehuggers, the urban spoiled, etc. Time to drill and time to build more refineries so we can finally tell the affluent Islamic leaders in the Middle East we don't need them anymore. Ah, wouldn't that be wonderful?
Sorry for the multiple guys! Not sure what happened...
There are 45 Islamist, Taliban-type terrorist training camps on American soil operating in at least 9 states.
No need to worry though since "Islam is peace"...
"I worry that there are sleeper cells in the U.S.," McConnell said. "I do not know."
D-Uh!
NO SH*T, Sherlock! Though we must remember these people have no executive decision-making power so I guess we should be glad they are going public...