Not that Al-Qaeda is already there, of course. Oh, no.
Friend and Ally Update from Reuters (thanks to Jeffrey Imm):
PAKISTAN said it could not accept "indiscriminate action" on its territory by US forces without first being informed that there was an al-Qaeda or terrorist target there.“We remain determined not to allow al-Qaeda or any other terrorist entity to establish a safe haven on our territory,” Pakistani Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.
“Whatever counter-terrorism action is to be taken inside Pakistan, it will be taken by our own security forces.”
Buy into the Fictive Reality of the ISI being non-Jihadist, this is what you get. Sooner or later, reality comes to the fore. Either from the end of a gun barrel or from atop, from a bomb.
Buy into the Fictive Reality of the ISI being non-Jihadist, this is what you get. Sooner or later, reality comes to the fore. Either from the end of a gun barrel or from atop, from a bomb.
Mr. Spencer,
Pakistan is objecting to strikes before clarification because the US military, at least in that part of the world and perhaps Somalia, is really sloppy about air strikes, killing hundreds of innocent civilians first, then stating (with no investigation because it was in a remote area and CNN moves on in the next hour anyway) that there was an al-Qaeda presence there (there very well could have been, most of the time against the will of the villagers). Also, most of those strikes would have probably been concentrated in tribally-administered areas; areas which currently house some of the greatest domestic opposition to Musharraf and, if you have watched the news recently, he's not in the greatest political shape, even for the nasty dictator that he is.
A quote comes to mind:
"Can't see past the end of his nose?"--Mary Poppins
Explanation:
Everything you see must be in the context of Islam, nothing more. If it involves people who are Muslims, then the only dimension that it can be understood in is an Islamic one, not domestic politics, not economics, not international politics, but Islam. Cute, but no cigars today.
Just doing some thinking...
I find this affair rather amusing especially the quote here:-
PAKISTAN said it could not accept "indiscriminate action" on its territory
could some one correct me if my logic is wrong but didn't the Pak government negotiate an agreement with Waziristan or what ever they like to call that anal orifice of the world, concerning the stationing of Pakistan government troops there. This tells me that they don't control it, how can it be part of your territory, if you don't control it. It might look good on paper that what every the name of the place is part of your country, but reality tell me different. I also like the wording Indiscriminate action. I would presume the American were aiming at a certain group of terrorists that suggests to me that they are being very discriminatory, so how can the action or what every the great satan is up to be indiscriminate. The mind boggles.
The world will one day wish that 3 neutron bombs had been dropped on the Taliban tribal regions this Summer, to end this world threat, before it spreads any further.
They are more dangerous than the Imperial Japanese were in the Summer of 1945.
The lack of seriousness (or disconnect from core survival instincts) by the West -at this crucial hinge of history- will only guarantee that we lose many more of our own people to jihadist terrorism before we crush these self-proclaimed apocalyptic militants.
The enemy is serious.
Our leaders are not.
Being nice to Pakistan is like making a peace treaty with Austria after the Anschluss. They are still part of the greater enemy no matter how much we hope they are not and how much they pretend. It then might be betetr to deal them before they are an integral part of the whole.
(not military action but economic/political)
Anyone have any idea about the cause of the absolute chasm in perception and intelligance between leaders such as Churchill and Roosevelt and the present ruling fools? Or is it that the establishment prefer only to allow the election of pliable fools?
"Can't see past the end of his nose"...I find that particularly apropos for the poster.
With severe myopia like this I'm afraid MILLION's will have to be slaughtered before we grow the cajones to do what needs to be done.
It's pathetic,for 1400 years the moozlims have demonstrated their M.O. to the world and still the west doesn't understand.HOW CAN THIS BE POSSIBLE???
MisIslamist-
The "absolute chasm" seems to be a product of people not having much direct experience with death any more in the West.
Our soldiers are getting some in this mutli-front conflict with jihadists, and we can only hope tha a few of them get into politics, fast, because the current level of unreality in the leadership, especially after 9/11, is chilling and baffling.
As if you fight a war to look good to world opinion, and not to survive and crush the sworn enemy.
An enemy that would have annihilated us yesterday if they had our firepower.
Hey Naseem! You better build a bomb shelter.
I have always maintained that t pre-emptive strike is necessary in Pakistan. Finally someone is listening....
Hasn't this been their position all the while?
Hopefully this is just the "official" position and hasn't become operationally viable.
Lets see, terrorslimes sneak into Afghanistan, attack coalition forces then, deciding embracing death isn't so exciting run back to hide in Pakistan. Coalition forces are then supposed to contact Islamisbad and provide them with tactical information and request permission to pursue the attackers back to their coven and assist them in fulfilling their dreams of martyrdom.
The enemy, their media supporters and propaganda ministers in the west seem to adhere to the belief that every terrorist and each one whom embraces death for Allah is an innocent child in the eyes of Allah so you apparently can't kill a terrorist without innocent chirrens being killed.
It is unfortunate that the majority of the terrain in the region doesn't plot well for a nice Nuke strike.
It doesn't matter what Pakistan officials sputter -- believe me, if those nukes come under very serious threat of falling into maniacal Islamic jihadist hands, al-Qaeda or just the neighborhood mullah, there will be joint Allied special forces jumping into theater faster than the time it will take this paragraph to post to this comments thread...
Yes, Pakistan is moderate in the sense that the government there is better than Al Qaeda, which seems to be the new standard of radicalism in many circles. For example, Barry Rubin in jpost.com pointed out that in a recent article, the LA Times referred to Hamas as moderate, in relation to Al Qaeda.
Then there's the recent pump-up of "moderate" Fatah.
I'm very uncomfortable calling something with a real potential for aggression moderate. It's a reflection of naivete, diplomatic frustration and self-delusion.
Let's err on the side of caution and take a dim view of Pakistan, it nukes and its apparent harboring of groups like Al Qaeda.
An American: can i have a word with you in private?
From An Canadian.
Thanks.
An American: can i have a word with you in private?
From An Canadian.
Thanks.
The world will one day wish that 3 neutron bombs had been dropped on the Taliban tribal regions this Summer, to end this world threat, before it spreads any further.
They are more dangerous than the Imperial Japanese were in the Summer of 1945.
Posted by: profitsbeard at July 21, 2007 9:59 AM
profitsbeard, That day you mention has come and gone. Noone paid heed to what the then Indian prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpaie had foreseen: that Taliban will destablize the region (South East Asia). Since then, Taliban has given safe haven to Bin Laden and his co-horts, aided the release of Omar Sheikh when an Indian Airlines flight was hijacked to Khandhar. Yes the very Omar sheikh who was involved in the murder of Daniell Pearl, was in Indian custody but Taliban helped in his release. Needless to add, Taliban has provided a world-headquarters to International terror. So, you are right on the money. That region, Taliban included, needs to be pounded to dust.
"indiscriminate"
"from a muslim point of view"
Surely you jest, Un-American. Indiscriminate violence is just another day at the office in Pakistan.
Are you blogging in from Syria or Dearborn, MI?
Regardless, isn't it time for you to face Mecca and masturbate?
We want back the $27.5 billion Pakistan has received in direct and indirect aid since 9/11/2001. We want it now.
Pakistan -- otherwise known as Backwardstan -- is aiming their complaints in the wrong direction. AGAIN.
Who's side are they on anyway?
We remain determined not to allow al-Qaeda or any other terrorist entity to establish a safe haven on our territory,” Pakistani Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam said.
These folks are a bunch of clowns. The only country that gives full freedom to the terrorists outfits of every conceivable spectrum, is Pakistan, aka, Terroriststan, and these clowns are telling us they will not allow that.
Hugh wants $27.5 billion back. I like to know what are they doing with our $. $27.5 billions has gone into the void, into the cesspit. I can't figure the attraction that our Government has for Terroriststan. They suck big time.
Was it not the pakis who said the one place in their snake pit of a "country" they couldn't control properly, thus had to give more autonomy, was the Waziristan tribal areas? They have no control repressing provinces like Balochistan, Sindh and the Northern Areas where the non muslim (as in leftover Sindhi Hindus and Hindus and others on Balochistan) and liberal muslim populations are most likely to be against al qaeda, the taliban and iran. They can treat these peoples in a heinous and incredibly racist manner that rivals Saddam Hussein, Suharto or even Omar al Bashir. Yet the one part of their wasteland with the smallest area, that should theoretically be the least difficult to control, (no way do I beleive the people of Waziristan are SO much harder to repress than those of Balochistan or Sindh), is the one place they basically give independence to. I suppose it takes some sort of degree in political sceince from one of America's elite, quasi communisat colleges to infer that this has something to do wtih the fact that the people of Waziristan are the most sympathetic to al qaeda and the paki creation the taliban.
If this is not robbing America blind of supposed aid money, than can someone, perhaps a "poltical science" major at one of our elite universities, please tell me what is?
Gee un-American, I guess you forgot to include those missiles being fired indiscriminatly by Hamas and co, into Israel. Which is a good thing because most of them miss targets, and land in empty fields. Any that hit people or structures are lucky hits.
Pakistan is a gonner. Better get those nukes now.
Naseem, better pack up and move to Britain. Jihadi's there can use your talents...
Bull. If they can't stop it in their own country, then we will. If they don't like it they can, complain the UN, issue a fatwa, hold some rallies. Doesn't matter. We have to attack the terrorists in their sanctuary. If pakistan doesn't like it they can get a little more serious about doing it them selves because the job needs to get done.
"PAKISTAN said it could not accept "indiscriminate action" on its territory by US forces without first being informed that there was an al-Qaeda or terrorist target there."
Perfectly logical. Without prior notification, how can the government spread the word that a strike is coming and that all al Qaeda personnel need to find safer accommodations? It ruins the jihadist story if anyone but an "innocent civilian" dies in an American airstrike. Wedding caravans beware!
Even after harboring Bin Laden, Bush made Pakistan an ally against terror. This is like fox guarding the hen-house. Then again, Bush's other ally against terror is Saudi Arabia the very country from where majority of the 9/11 attackers came. Then again, Bush's adopted brother is Bandar-Bush. Connect the dots or do the math. It will add up to more of the same. For USA to survive, only hope seems to be Congressman Tom Tancredo: http://www.teamtancredo.com/
"I can't figure the attraction our Government has for Terroristan."
-Mushuntcowboy
That's the question often pondered by most who see the big picture.
Considering the influence of Muslim's,in addition to their Western sympathizers,in key Government positions, one could resonably conclude that U.S. resources are being utilized, in part, as proxy tools towards islamic infighting. Removal of aid and American influence in these ALIEN affairs is paramount to future individual and collective freedom as we know it to be.
The world will one day wish that 3 neutron bombs had been dropped on the Taliban tribal regions this Summer, to end this world threat, before it spreads any further.
(from Profitsbeard)
This would be in line with Bush's "there will be no distinction between the enemy and those who harbor them." This would be something the Jiahdists would understand and then chase them into the playgrounds of Afghanistan with the fire of the dragon.
No way Duh Swami,
That witch can move to your country instead!
No way Duh Swami,
That witch can move to your country instead!
Posted by: The Other Mert
But T.O. Mert...she already has family and connections over there. Britain is the right place for her, she will fit right. You will know her by her burka. It is the only one carrying advertising for 'Sharia Lite Ale'...And Amahdi popcorn...
Pretend to be 'An American'
9/11 was 'indiscriminate action'-
since then Muhammedans have carried out more than 8000 registered terror-attacks and justified them with the Koran and the sunnah.
We had enough. Roasted Muhammedans are better than those who bomb and terrorize us. No more mosques, no more madrassahs, no more clerics: Internment and deportations, NOW!
To An American:
You say this of Robert, "Everything you see must be in the context of Islam, nothing more. If it involves people who are Muslims, then the only dimension that it can be understood in is an Islamic one, not domestic politics, not economics, not international politics, but Islam."
Ask any jihadist, islamist, fundamentalist moslem or...heck, ask any moslem who is not secular...basically ask less than 1% of all moslems...
Everything they do is motivated by their religion. Everything. Hence, it only makes sense to try and understand their motivation and sense of purpose. It's the quran, stupid! Robert understands this. Most of us do.
Look at the fighting in every corner of the globe (Palestine, Phillipines, Thailand, Chechnya, Kosovo, soon the UK and Western Europe) All motivated to turn dar al harb into dar al islam.
Oops...what i meant was, less than 1% is secular..
The two countries at this moment where you can bomb with discrimination would be Iran and Pakistan. first Iran is an outright state sponsor of islamic terrorism, then Pakistan looks the other way, tries to make peace with the Taliban, l see no difference between these countries, their actions and causes are the same, so bomb their nuke sites, taliban sites. Remember WW2 the bombing of Dresden, and other places were done to win a war much quicker and less costly in lives and money.
"I can't figure the attraction our Government has for Terroristan."
-Mushuntcowboy
Chalk it up to inertia. Old habits die hard. It's more like a cold war hangover. We just can't let go of those who we think were once our diehard allies against communism. It's the same with Saudi Arabia. In both cases we can tell ourselves they're on our side since they are being threatened by the same people. The fog hasn't worn off yet. It will take a few more 9/11s.
Sorry Hugh. I want my portion returned to me; not to the government. To us, who pay for this government or what is perceived as that.
BTW. Did the last line in your post have any reference to a Doors song....And we want it now...now...agonizing scream off into impassioned guitar solo!
This is just part and parcel to the whole problem. With the 9-11 attacks and bush's mealy mouthed assertion of "with us or with the terrorists" Any nation that aids or harbors terrorists should be treated as such themselves.
Good God! We have met the enemy and he is us. America pours money down these islamic ratholes at the rate of billions a year. For what? so these asses can protest in the streets and call for the death of the "Great Satan", America? It has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard of for a country ostensibly at war to be giving money to the very people that have declared war on it.
If Pakistan were truly an ally they would have troops in wazustan, hunting down the Taliban and Al Queda, as I type this. Since they refuse to do the job, and it must be done, it looks like America will have to take a page from Mexico's handbook and wetback in to do the jobs that Pakis just won't do.
I bet hitler objected to US strikes in nazi germany too...duh...lol
No Aid, No Overflights and use of staging areas in Pakistan. Without them Nato is trapped in Afganistan.
The Eggs Pakistan laid in Afganistan have hatched and are now comming home to roost. Their insessent pecking will result in a giant BBQ. The Grill is hot and ready for cooking.
haha what does america expect that we will allow US troops on our soil , aint gonna happen.
Besides you amercans are in no postion to start and more wars , specially not with Pakistan.
......cricket............cricket...........cricket..
...................cricket,cricket.................
"non-American":
The silence is deafening!
All I hear is crickets chirping.Your bluff was called by Robert to produce your documentation.And
there it is again,yet another demonstration of your
devious nature.Your dishonesty is limitless isn't
it.
Hopefully all here will henceforth pay no attention
to you ever again.
To "An American" (ya right):
Maybe the civilians shouldn't let terrorists hide out among them. It could be costly. Maybe the terrorists shouldn't hide among the civilians, for they are sentencing the civilians to death. No apologies here. If the muslim's tactics get other muslims killed, it's on them, not us. We don't care. You started this. We'll finish it. And if your civilain population dies in the process, well, we lost a few civilians too. And unlike you, we don't target civilians. (Yet...)
post script to "An American":
No, it's not "Everything you see must be in the context of Islam, nothing more." ...It's "everything a muslim does must be seen in the context of jdaams, SEALS, Apache's, UAV's, and, finally, the blessed arseenal of nuclear weapons at the disposal and discrimination of the United States of America." Peace be upon her. Eat pork and die.
Alert-
I think, in the short run, you're right.
The spine of the West is still unjoined.
But we're not going gentle in to any goodnight.
A painful fact which will one day dawn on the jihadis ....like the light a thousand suns.. if they continue pressing their luck.
A better counter-intelligence and strike-teams oriented war (on the Pakistani Taliban-leaning tribal region, at the moment) would cut out a lot of the malignant leadership, and slow down their survivors' onslaught.
Plus, we need a prong of this fight aimed deep into (the violence-promoting tenets of) the Koran.
Until the immoral and medieval dogmas are countered, we're fighting only the shell of militant Islam and not its unhealthy heart.
We can nuke you with impunity.
Your nukes cannot reach us.
Nuke Pakistan, nuke Iran, and nuke Syria ... and Dar al Islam folds like a wet paper bag.
You make a poor assumption ... that war with Pakistan would require an invasion. India will probably claim your country's deserted radioactive ruins once the war ends ( about a half hour later ).
"there was an al-Qaeda presence there (there very well could have been, most of the time against the will of the villagers)."
Posted by: An American..
...are you saying the Muslim villagers who routinely attack government patrols and inforce Shar'ia law were held hostage by other Muslims who just happen to be violent Muslims?....You are too funny today....
...Pakistan is afraid we will kill some of the Al-Qeada leaders under their "protection"...
Let's face it, Pakistan is heading for a civil war.
I've already got my ringside seat booked and I have my giant coke and popcorn.
Let the fun begin.