By Griff Witte in the Washington Post:
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, July 8 -- Positions hardened in the standoff at the pro-Taliban Red Mosque on Saturday, as a peace effort collapsed amid a hail of gunfire and President Pervez Musharraf called on Islamic radicals hunkered down inside to surrender or face death.The siege entered its fifth day Saturday, and there was no resolution in sight. Heavy exchanges of gunfire continued throughout the day, and the radicals appeared determined to continue fighting rather than lay down their weapons. The government, meanwhile, has refused to negotiate and has said it will accept nothing less than unconditional surrender.
[...]
Abdul Rashid Ghazi, 43, a cleric who took over leadership of the mosque after the arrest of his brother earlier in the week, has said he and his followers want to be martyred. "I prefer to fight and prefer death instead of surrendering," Ghazi said in an interview with the BBC. "Islamabad will become like Baghdad if the government commits aggression against the Red Mosque and kills me."
In a separate interview with a local television station, Ghazi said more than 70 of his followers had already been killed, an assertion that could not be independently confirmed.
Early Sunday morning, the army said that a senior commando had been killed and another officer injured during intense fighting overnight. The commandos had been blasting holes in the perimeter wall to the compound to allow women and children inside a chance to escape.
The mosque is surrounded by several thousand heavily armed government commandos and rangers. The siege began Tuesday, after a vicious gun battle that left 19 people dead. Clerics at the Red Mosque, in a residential neighborhood in the heart of the normally tranquil capital, had been provoking the government for months with operations aimed at stamping out vice. Students from a madrassa, or religious school, affiliated with the mosque abducted police officers and alleged prostitutes, and they threatened music store owners with attacks.
The mosque standoff comes as Pakistan faces a growing threat from religious extremists, who have been moving eastward from the Afghan border in recent years.
Darn those extremists. They're so ... so ... extreme.
"Musharraf told militants barricaded inside to surrender or die."
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSISL18833720070707?feedType=RSS
Just struck me - this is to Pakistan (or at least Islamabad) what Hamas vs Fatah is to the Palis, or Shia vs Sunni in Baghdad.
Mian Musharraf aur Ghazi, aap donoko mubarak ho (Congratulations to both Musharraf and Imam Ghazi)
It's good that President Musharraf is getting tough with the extremists in the Red Mosque, but the fact is that the Red Mosque is is only a dot on the Pakistani landscape. There are thousands of Mosques and Madrassas in Pakistan, and all of them are delivering the same murderous messages of hate and violence as the Imans in the Red Mosque.
Defeating and capturing the Red Mosque isn't going to make a dent in Pakistan's extremist problem.
If Musharraf is serious about breaking the back of the Islamic extremists in his country, he's going to have to unleash his army to make a sweep of every Mosque and Madrassa in the country, and make a serious attempt to destroy the Taliban which controls large chuncks of Pakistasni territory.
Unfortunately, I don't think that Musharraf has the will to do what really needs to be done.
Brought to you by those peaceful folks, practicing their religion of peace according to rich cultural traditions.
It was last night I thought mosque are nothing but fortress. Just now I thought, how backwards they really are. We have to go through hell to get to Heaven. They have to go through heaven to go to Hell!
"clerics at the red mosque, had been provoking the government for months with operations of stamping out vice." What? like it's a virtue to use as a shield, children, and endanger their lives? When pigs fly. ghazi, cleric, has said " he and his followers want to be martyred." after all 72 unmated sows with wings will be there to meet them.
I thought Mushi made peace with them?
From WorldNetDaily...note it took the cleric in the Islamic school 8 weeks to brainwash the kids:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56563
Red Mosque hostage kids tell parents: We are martyrs
Cleric: 'The boys are the 1st line of defense, then the girls ... they will fight to the death'
"Khan, the desperate father and shopkeeper, succeeded Friday in getting his two daughters to leave the compound with a ruse.
Reaching them once again by cell phone, he told them their mother was ill and lay unconscious on the pavement outside. The two girls left the compound and were taken by their father.
Saima, Khan's 10-year-old daughter, denounced the trick.
"The teachers taught us about martyrdom and that it is a great achievement," she told the Times. "I could see the fighting was in front of me and I could understand that we would die. I felt real anger about what my father did. He tricked me."
"I'm taking them back to our village," Khan said. "They were ready for martyrdom and they're very angry with me. I'm just happy I've got my daughters back, and sorry for those whose daughters are still in there."
According to Khan, Saima's transformation had taken only eight weeks.
Musharraf made peace as long as they were not in his backyard. Fortunately for Karzai, but unfortunately for Musharraf, this may attract an influx of fighters from the Western frontier. Like Palestine, this may help to split, and thus weaken, the extremists and may force Musharraf and the Pakistan army to become more actively involved in actual combat. This would be a very good thing indeed. If that were to happen he would have no choice but to take control of the hostile territories.
Funny how they call Jihadists 'extremists', but also call anyone who says Islam as a violent religion/ideology, an 'extremist'. It's like, I'm an extremist, and so are they, as if we're one and the same.
If Musharraf is serious about breaking the back of the Islamic extremists in his country, he's going to have to unleash his army to make a sweep of every Mosque and Madrassa in the country, and make a serious attempt to destroy the Taliban which controls large chuncks of Pakistasni territory.
Unfortunately, I don't think that Musharraf has the will to do what really needs to be done.
Posted by: rational
No, he does not have the will. The means neither.
This is an interesting bit of Orwellian truth-speak obfuscation muslim vomit:
Abdul Rashid Ghazi, 43, a cleric who took over leadership of the mosque after the arrest of his brother earlier in the week.........
......notice the part where they neglect the fact that the brother "leader" was arrested while trying to escape wearing a woman's burka. Coward.
How stupid are these people ? I don't just mean the 7th century death cult whackos inside the compound, but also the forces outside.
What ?? They never heard of gas granades?? Here's a tip Pervez Kinda-sorta-ally - instead of lobbing in mortar shells - surround the camp - lob in knockout gas granades - end of problem.
Remember to stand upwind if ya can.
Supression of islamic militants 101.
Class anesthetized and subdued.
Move along people - nothing to see here.............
A nice little 'civil war' among the brainwashed barbarians of Pukistan would not necessarily be a bad thing for infidels and Jooozzzz...
sheik - I rejoiced when the first mosque was bombed by one sect or another - was it 2005? - who can keep track ??? - I was sure the US would say - OK - our work is done here.
I even thought that the bombing was odd and maybe the CIA did it to deflect attention so the US could leave Iraq while the population went on with their 14 hundred year war about who the fuck knows what and who cares anymore. Muslims are more efficient at killing each other because they know their enemies so well - where they live - families - alliances - obsurd family feuds - etcetera......
But no - the US said - oh let's increase our presence and bring peace that hasn't existed ever in 1400 years between these two groups of people that we really can't tell apart.
And George says "Look at my crotch - I'm wearing a flight suit - I'm on an aircraft carrier - look at my crotch !!! "
And here to present the award for most out of touch dhimmie is Paris Hilton - we've sedated her.
"Like - I'm so proud to present the award for the moron of the decade and the most out of touch dhimmie - Hey what's a dhimmie?? Where was I ?? Oh ya - here's your thingy George."
And George is too busy to accept this award because he's got his shoes off at the rededication of our enemy's inner sanctom in the heart of our country.
Feel free to puke about the western hemisphere as we have reached the height of idiocy.
"Three big blasts sounded across the city as the commandos blew up more of the compound wall (of the red mosque)."
Why is it that infidels must have respect for the sanctity of a mosque, while a moslem does not?
The truth is a mosque was never like a church which was legally protected as a sanctuary or a place of peace. But the western press invokes the rules of sanctuary to a mosque as if it was a house of sanctuary rather than a den of allahs slaves willing to spread allahs faith 'über alles' or 'allah alles.
Pakistan has allowed the Taliban to take control of Afganistan, and now the hand they fed has come back to bite them. Pakistan was founded for these pious muslims and now you see what death and destruction it has achieved along with misery and poverty but what the heck they go to some place in the sky where wine runs amok.
The thin - dare I say - miniscule - ray of hope for our success in Pakistan is a war between those who like US weapons and US dollars and those who like money from Iran and weapons from friggin Russia and friggin China.
Pervez has a tough row to hoe. Choose your friends who are whackos or choose your friends who are kinda on your side. Which path?? And which is which ??.....hmmmmmmmmmmmm ??
Consider the options - money is good - no shortage of weapons on either side - the army is mostly on his side - decisions decisions.
I, like many people, am hoping he erradictes and manages to somehow reform the religious whackos who are beating down the doors of his administration.
The reality is - he doesn't have a hope in hell of avoiding armed conflict with the people who keep crossing the border into Trashcanistan - and he knows it. Maybe he thinks he can stop them somehow - then what ??
Dun da dun dun ........... it's crunch time.
Stay tuned to this channel...............it should be bloody and interesting. Atleast the US paid enough to have a front row seat.
terrorism = pakistan
what more to say.
Assalamau Laikum all,
Gazni has got it all wrong...and now he is paying the price for this wrong violent thinking. He tried to impose a fake shariat version and ofcourse that never works.
What is required is doing the ground work before by changing individuals, family, societies and then shariat will implement “itself”. His ground work was carried out by thuggery and that is wrong.
Note however, one only has to be illeterate about history to think that shariat did not work after Rasoolillah (saw) and sahabah. ]
The whole of Ummayd and most of Abbasid caliphites implemented shariat. Of course, the level of piety would have been lower than that of the time of Rasoolillah (saw) and khulfa ar-rashideen but shariat was there in its glory.
This should be no surprise because on the (auspicious) day of khutbah of Hajjatul Wida’ when the Surah al-Mai’da’s verse (part of third verse) was revealed: “This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.”, Sayyadina Umar started crying.
He was asked why are you crying, and he said “Nothing succeeds perfection but imperfection.”
So, nobody expects to reach the same level as that of Rasoolillah’s (saw) time or khulfa ar-rashideen’s time. But, it remains a fact that shariat was successfully implemented by later generations.
Compare this with what has happened at Lal Masjid, everybody thinks that this is the standard of shariat (and why they don’t want it) and then by extension imagine it to be the same light that Rasoolillah (saw) showered upon us.
I am feeling tearful, anxiety, sorrow and anger that WE muslims could allow Rasoolillah’s (saw) light to be mixed and seen in this manner especially by kaffur.
After this incident is over, I would like to see the best Islamic scholars do proper research of the shariat prescribed by Rasoolillah (saw), and agree with hukamat as to how best to phase it in (over a few of years) as complimentry law of Pak.
We all know that Rasoolillah (saw) can never be wrong…thus by extension his shariat cannot be wrong…sharit will implement itself as peoples take to it...praise be to Allah T'allah SWT.
Yeah Naseem, a real nice piece of work you have there in Pakistan. We're laughing our asses off at the goings on in your red Mosque (good name that, as it will be painted in blood when its all over) and your other screw ups as your men try and run away dressed as women in their burqas. Brave Muslim warriors, hahaha! Yes, you are a good joke for us kuffur! So please, by all means keep lecturing us on the superiority of Islam! You make a better comedian than you ever did a wife or mother!
BY PAKISTANI LAW you aren't even allowed to call yourself a Muslima, and by doing so you are in violation of Ordinance XX.
No wonder you people are trying to immigrate to the West where there is true religious freedom and get away from the oppression that is Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinance_XX
http://www.thepersecution.org/50years/paklaw.html
http://www.webcom.com/hrin/parker/ahmadi.html
"...a prior amendment to the Pakistan Constitution declared the Ahmadis to be non-Muslim."
"Ordinance XX adds two new sections to the Pakistan Penal Code and provides prison terms of up to three years and unlimited fines for any member of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam (referred to in the Ordinance as the "Quadiani group" or "Lahori group") who uses certain words of address, who calls his or her place of worship a masjid (mosque), or who recites the azan (Muslim form of prayers) "as used by Muslims." (6) It also provides prison terms of up to three years and unlimited fines for any Ahmadi who "poses himself as a Muslim" or who refers to his or her faith as Islam, or who preaches or propagates his or her faith or by "visible representations, or in any manner whatsoever outrages the religious feelings of Muslims." (7) As is obvious, this Ordinance makes a rather drastic restriction of the rights of Ahmadi Muslims to profess and practice their religion.
Assalamau Laikum Timur,
Yes, the picture and treatment of Ahmadis is confused and unfair...but one thing at a time.
There is little point in confusing things further. Let's get the right character of shariat defined, implemented, observed for (non violent)checks and balances, fine tuned and take it from there.
If this template is good ...it will sort itself out.
Once shariat starts to shine...the kaffur will the see the piety and advantages for itself.
Corruption down, crimes down, greated disciples in everyday life, more prayer to Allah SWT..it sort of wraps around itself getting better and better.
The kaffur will see the advantages for themselves and will want some too...and nothing wrong with that.
There is no reasoning with or detering a jihadi, so keep up that great jihadi body count.
The more the better.
This way lies victory.
(y'all hear o lib defeatist fools (like the Dems) - surprise - the way to win is to win)
The bhains is lifting her poonch again.
Naseem sez: Once shariat starts to shine...the kaffur will the see the piety and advantages for itself.
Corruption down, crimes down, greated disciples in everyday life, more prayer to Allah SWT..it sort of wraps around itself getting better and better.
Nazism and communism do the same thing without praying to Allah. So Nazism is preferable to Islam, because it is the lesser (not much lesser) of two evil's. But remember, the lesser of two evil's is still evil. Shariat will never shine to people used to freedom. That's why Nazism and communism were fought. Anything that opposes freedom is evil. That's why the initiated fight Islam, and will continue to fight Islam, intellectualy, with the truth, and physically with violence, if need be.
But seriously resist it we will. Islam will never dominate the US...never...
Some questions -
- This fight has been going on for days; how much ammo and weapons were in that mosque in the first place?
- Is it reasonable to assume that most of the other mosques are being used as ammo dumps as well?
- How can army and ranger forces have a place surrounded and be losing men all the time? How good are these fighters, really?
- One of the other posters here was right - It seems that the kids signed up for martyrdom pretty quick. That should be kept in mind when fighting these guys in the future.
Feel free to puke about the western hemisphere as we have reached the height of idiocy.
Posted by: KJ-North-in-Canada
I prefer to think of it as the depths of idiocy but everytime I think we've touched bottom, one of our leaders manages to dig the hole a little deeper.
"I'm taking them back to our village," Khan said. "They were ready for martyrdom and they're very angry with me. I'm just happy I've got my daughters back, and sorry for those whose daughters are still in there."
So this man was ready to save his own daughters. What did he do in the past to further the cause of jihadism? How did his daughters end up in the mosque in the first place? How many times has he cheered attacks carried out on non-Muslims? Will he avoid mosques that preach jihadism? Does his village imam promote violence? It's too bad we'll never know.
The fact that the brainwashing of the children took barely two months is not surprising. Children want to please their elders and they implicitly trust their teachers. They're in a closed environment in the mosque and that is their whole world.
The real God of the universe endowed man with free will. Ever since then, the clever, using their free will, have continually tried to usurp the free will of others, and replace it with their own.
This is a form of black magick. This is Islam.
Submitting to Islam means giving up one's free will, and replacing it with a form of slavery. Slave's have no free will, or are prohibited from utilising it, if they have it.
Aliester Crowley said, 'Do as thou will, shall be the whole of the law, the law under love'.
No matter what one think's of Crowley, Islam reverses that. 'Do as Allah instruct's and forget that free will business, and dont be concerned about love, cause you wont encounter much of it'.
The 'militant's in the Red mosque are in that position, their free will has been destroyed and replaced with the psychosis of useless martyrdom.
If they dont give up due to hunger and thirst, they will all be killed. Allah will be so pleased...
Islam's great...aint it???
Abby quoted a WND story:
Naseem beat me to it:
It was only eight weeks of transformation, but there has been over a thousand years of preparatory ground work. As others said above, her family took part in that groundwork by sending her to the Red Mosque. The Musharraf government took part by allowing the mosque to kidnap policemen and burn shops. The Pakistani society took part by submitting to Islam.
If we don't take an honest look at what Islam teaches, and very clearly say "No. Our society does NOT share these values", then we may see our children transforming in eight weeks into murderous "martyrs" as well. We've already seen some examples.
Naseem, you aren't even considered a Muslim under Pakistani law. Legitimate Muslimas (not "wild slutty womens" like you) don't even speak to men outside their immediate Umma.
"The kaffur will see the advantages for themselves..."
WHAT ADVANTAGES?
Reducing a country's economy back to that of the 7th century? (Your GDP per capita is $2,600, 24% of your people live below the international poverty level and your population growth is 1.8% per annum versus a (negative) -1.24% migration rate.)
Not allowing women equal rights?
Not treating all religions equal?
Not allowing freedom of speech?
Not allowing freedom of the press and news media?
"Pakistan" is supposed to mean "Land Of The Pure", is it not? Do you really consider the screwed up state of affairs you live in to be "Pure"? Are you stupid enough to think that we will believe it?
(Don't bother answering. It's a rhetorical question.)
We kuffur will enjoy watching you Muslim idiots kill each other. It saves us the trouble.
Naseem is an idiot - every Muslim is an idiot - if they think that we non-Muslims looking on at those states which are attempting shariat, will be dazzled by the light 'once shariat starts to shine'. Nausea inspired by the sheer horror of what Muslims are doing to themselves and to others, is a more correct description of our reaction.
I just read V S Naipaul, 'Among the Believers'. Naipaul visited Iran just after its Revolution, Pakistan thirty years after it was supposedly set up as a state for Muslims - 'land of the pure', and Malaysia and Indonesia just beginning the process of trying to 'purify' themselves. For 'purify' read - kill. A slow, sadistic-masochistic process of collective self-annihilation, creating NOTHING. I am not looking forward to finding out what he found in the same places, twenty years later, in 'Beyond Belief'.
Afghanistan did it on fast-foward under the Taliban.
I think M Scott Peck described what we are dealing with, in his book 'People of the Lie'. In the chapter 'Towards a Psychology of Evil', he writes: "Evil is in opposition to life. It is that which opposes the life force. It has, in short, to do with killing. Specifically, it has to do with murder - namely, unnecessary killing, killing that is not required for biological survival." (We see plenty of THAT in Muslim lands nowadays, and outside them wherever Muslims attempt jihad).
Peck goes on: "When I say that evil has to do with killing, I do not mean it restricts itself to corporeal murder. Evil is also that which kills spirit. There are various essential attributes of life - particularly human life - such as sentience, mobility, awareness, growth, autonomy, will. It is possible to kill or attempt to kill any one of these attributes without actually destroying the body. Thus we may 'break' a horse or a child without harming a hair on its head."
Peck expands: "Erich Fromm was acutely sensitive to this fact when he broadened the definition of necrophilia [in his book 'The Heart of Man'] TO INCLUDE THE DESIRE OF CERTAIN PEOPLE TO CONTROL OTHERS - TO MAKE THEM CONTROLLABLE, TO FOSTER THEIR DEPENDENCY, TO DISCOURAGE THEIR CAPACITY TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES, TO DIMINISH THEIR UNPREDICTABILITY AND ORIGINALITY, TO KEEP THEM IN LINE. Distinguishing it from the 'biophilic' person, one who appreciates and fosters the variety of life forms and the uniqueness of the individual, he [Fromm] distinguishes a 'necrophiliac character type', WHOSE AIM IS TO AVOID THE INCONVENIENCY OF LIFE BY TRANSFORMING OTHERS INTO OBEDIENT AUTOMATONS, ROBBING THEM OF THEIR HUMANITY."
(Pretty good description of the end results of shariat, eh? Sound like a certain 'religion of peace' we all know about here? Sound like its thrice-damned 'prophet'... Naipaul's description of the conduct of people in the Islamising societies he visited, and of the chaos and ugliness it was producing in every sphere, certainly drives one to that conclusion).
And Peck sums it up: "Evil, then, for the moment, is that force, residing either inside or outside of human beings, that seeks to kill life or liveliness. And goodness is its opposite. Goodness is that which promotes life and liveliness".
Naseem and all the other Islamists will never be able to persuade any intelligent observer to join them in their (the Muslims') collective act of spiritual, intellectual, artistic, sexual, emotional, social, political and ecological suicide-murder. For measured by every marker that Peck and Fromm identify, jihad and shariat and dhimmitude are evil, evil, evil. They promote death, death of body and soul; they seek to kill life and liveliness.
Sorry about the small typo in my post above - should be 'fast-forward' not 'fast-foward'. Call me a pedant, but I like to be accurate.
dumbledoresarmy, I agree completely. Once one has tasted truth and freedom one does not want to wallow in the filth that is Islam or any other false religious cult.
Assalamau Laikum dumble, Timur.
You can quote Naipul and Peck....for while they think that they understand ...they don't... they
simply look from outside in.
Allah T'allah reveals the truth of these peoples in Surah Al Maidah verse 44
Those who do not Judge by Allahs revelations, they are the kafiroon.
If Naipul/Peck were muslims they would not say what you wrote. If Shariat was all bad then millions would leave Islam....but they don't...instead they see merit in "the way to the watering hole" (which is the literal meaning of sharia).
To COMPLETELY accept a non sharia system as valid is kufr....I agree times have moved on a bit ...but there is space for sharia ...with democracy....sharia lite.
Sharia Lite will be global law...it is the glue that will hold us all together...tell all about sharia lite (details yet to be worked out...but bank on it).
Naipul/Peck should be confined to history...look at the truth of the sura...it shall set you free.
I've studied the sura. I've read the higher priority Medinan verses that advocate killing. I've read the verses that put women and people who know the truth as second class citizens. I've read the suras that contain errors proven wrong by science.
I've read it, and I don't want to live under it. Why would I? The rantings of a deranged war lord, if I wanted to live under that I'd become a Nazi.
Lol, Naseem under Ordinance XX of Pakistani law you are not even considered a Muslim. Tell us again about your great sharia law, how perfect it is and how "pure" Pakistan is. It will amuse us until the blood starts to flow at the red mosque, and then we will sit and watch you kill yourselves on tv while we drink our beer and eat our chips and have a good long laugh. You did your job as a breeder, now you are only good for amusing kuffur.
Beren, good point. At least the Nazis had beer parties and music.
So I guess that under Pakistani (The Land of The Pure)law that means Naseem is a kafiroon......
Gosh, imagine the Carbon-Footprint created by that little minority of extremists that seem to be in hundreds of places around the world and smear the Peaceful teachings from Muhammed .
And how odd that with 99.9999999% of the good mulims being so upset at these thugs that hijack Islam can never seem to catch any of them until after they do Jihad and slaughter non-Muslims.
All this time in the Mosque and in their families there is not one Muslim that noticed a radical bent to them, in fact they praise them as peaceful good God fearing men that never expressed any anger or hate towards innocent civilians.
Why my Jihad Johnny would never do such a thing, it must be the Zionist controlled media and puppet of Israel great satan USA that framed their son as part of a BUSH/CIA plot to invade Afghanistan for their Oil.
Plus that can't be a True Mosque because the Quran forebids Holy places from being used for war , must be the Massad dressed as Muslims to smear islam and invade palestine for their Oil.
Naseem.
Millions of people don't leave Islam, for two reasons. 1. They are brainwashed from birth and are actively prevented from finding out that there IS any other way to live. 2. If they do get interested in something different, they know that if they try to leave Islam, to embrace Christianity, or any other religion, or no religion, they will be killed, even by their own family.
Naseem: what would you do, you yourself, if your daughter came to you and said, "I have fallen in love with this wonderful man called Moshe Kohen and I am going to marry him and convert to Judaism and he and I are going to live in Israel"? What if she said, "I have read the gospels and been baptised and now I am a Christian?" Or, "I am now a Hindu, and I am going to marry Mr Ram Das who loves me and will never insult me by taking a second wife". Or, "I have read the books of Ayaan Hirsi Ali and I think she is right".
Come on. What would you do? And if she stuck to it? If she ran away with a Jew, or a Hindu, or a Buddhist, or a Christian, or an atheist? Would you send the murderers after her, to kill her for 'apostasy'?
Another reason why Islam is evil.
Islamo delenda est!
Do the Pakistan police know that one of their Ordinance XX violators (a female!!) is posting wild anti-government messages on a popular web site? Keep up the mockery, Naseem.
Assalamau Laikum dumble,
My daughter is a true green. She will marry Ahmadi...maybe not Lohri Ahmadi...bu Ahmadi none the less.
If she does marry some christian, Jew...then as long as they are willing to become Ahmadi...no problem.
If they are not willing to convert...it will show that they do not love her enough...so they are not worthy of her....I will do my best to explain this to her.
Marriage is a long commitment, young love usually is not enough to sustain the years. Starting off with differences of ideology/religion is usually a recipe to disaster, I think that my daughter knows this...particularily in Pak.
Monty, stop being a lund....Pak has enough problems without thinking about me....I am doing nothing to harm any government....not Pak, not UK and not the Amerike....my peaceful dua is to the peoples....and that transcends all man-made borders...which keep changing.
And if she refuses to convert to my religion does that show that she doesn't love him enough?
That's a two way street of logic you're using there.
And also, no true Christian or Jew would ever convert. A true believer would never abandon his faith, not for anything. That's something you need to understand.
Plus we Christians are a resilient lot, we survived Roman persecution and we survive persecution now a days. The devotion my brothers show over in Pakistan and China and numerous other countries, practicing their faith even though it may get them killed shows me that I'm on the right path.
The Messiah him self said that the world will hate us. Never has that been truer than now.
"The mosque is surrounded by several thousand heavily armed government commandos and rangers."
.....time for the Pakistani Army to level one building with the Russian Artillery pieces they have purchased....The artillery pieces look better in action that they do sitting in front of some motor pool or museum....The Pakistani army should be able to level the one building in about 2 minutes of a heavy volley...unless, of course, they live in fear of every being free...