Admiral Sir Alan West thinks it will take fifteen years to stamp out the jihad ideology in Britain.
"Terror fight 'may take 15 years,'" from the BBC (thanks to Davida):
The battle to deal with radicalisation in the fight against terrorism could take up to 15 years to achieve, says the UK's new security minister.Former navy chief Admiral Sir Alan West told the Sunday Telegraph the UK faced a "disparate core" of "racist" people, often based abroad, who wanted power.
A "disparate core" of "racists"? Disparate in what way?
And he urged people to be "un-British" by "snitching" to the authorities.
For pete's sake, Admiral, the people you want to "snitch" are not avoiding "snitching" because to do so would be "un-British." They are avoiding "snitching" because they are "un-British": they feel no loyalty to the British state, but rather consider themselves only members of the worldwide Islamic umma, and a Muslim doesn't turn in another Muslim to a non-Muslim authority.
Meanwhile Gordon Brown said he wanted a system to help identify potential suspects put in place across Europe.In his first interview since being appointed by the prime minister, Sir Alan said he hated the expression "war on terror", saying it was "totally wrong" for the current situation.
"It's not like a war in that sense at all. It demeans the value of a war and it demeans the value of a lot of things," he told the paper.
BBC political correspondent Sean Curran said Sir Alan and other political leaders saw the situation as being more comparable with the Cold War, in that it was a "long haul" task in which a "battle of ideas" needed to be won.
It is a long haul task in which a battle of ideas needs to be won, but it is a war also. In any case, saying it isn't war and then saying it is like the Cold War is a bit muddled, no?
Sir Alan said the new prime minister had asked him to help "sort out" the government's response to the terror threat, when he appointed him last week."We are not getting our message across properly," he added.
The most important aspect of countering the terror threat was prevention of the radicalisation of young Muslims, he said.
He said: "This is not a quick thing. I believe it will take 10 to 15 years.
"But I think it can be done as long as we as a nation apply ourselves to it and it's done across the board."
It will be interesting to see how he proposes to do it, and to do it so quickly. How will he eradicate a 1,400-year-old ideology from among Muslims in Britain in only 15 years? I am sorry to say it, but it does seem as if his timetable indicates that he hasn't a clue about the realities of this situation.
'Muslim community'Sir Alan described those threatening Britain as "a disparate core of people - based abroad primarily - whom I'm afraid are racist, they're bigoted, they seek power, they're avaricious in money terms and they talk of the caliphate."
Hmmm. They're disparate, but they talk of the caliphate. All right, we're getting warmer. At least we have one indication of a way in which they are not disparate.
The term caliphate generally refers to the dream of unified Islamic rule, with Sharia law applying to all.Sir Alan also disagreed with the use of general phrases such as "the Muslim community".
"I have a lot of Muslim friends and they see themselves as British. We've got to be very careful. The threat is to our British way of life and all of our British people."
He added: "Britishness does not normally involve snitching or talking about someone.
"I'm afraid, in this situation, anyone who's got any information should say something because the people we are talking about are trying to destroy our entire way of life."
Yes, but Sir Alan, if they all want to impose Sharia in Britain, maybe working with the Muslim community and demand that they institute comprehensive programs to teach against that notion, and against the caliphate, and against political Islam in general, might be a good place to start. Or to try to start. Assuming that most Muslims reject these concepts only puts you in line for a series of rude awakenings.
"The battle to deal with radicalisation in the fight against terrorism could take up to 15 years to achieve, says the UK's new security minister"
So what does this statement mean actually ? That the UK's new security minister "has it all" or would it take him another 15 years to actually say it like it is ?
"Former navy chief Admiral Sir Alan West told the Sunday Telegraph the UK faced a "disparate core" of "racist" people, often based abroad, who wanted power."
I got news for you Admiral, they call YOU racist and because islam must rule over the world, they certainly want power. What we want to know is, what are you, in your capacity as the new Security Minister are going to do for the Britons.
"The most important aspect of countering the terror threat was prevention of the radicalisation of young Muslims, he said"
That means that the old are already "radicalized", eh Admiral ? And that, IMHO, is the most important aspect of countering this threat. The older ones are already radicalized.
Mr. West appears to have out of control minestrone instead of brains.
Trying to mix in too many elements into a soup of a theory where the determining factor is resurgent Islamic imperialism.
If "British" Muslims support it silently, they still support it.
It they do not oppose it, it should be assumed that they support it.
In 15 years, the U.K. and Europe will not have the demographic edge that they now enjoy.
The will is lacking.
And the brains.
The cunning will prevail.
And, at the moment, that advantage is with the jihadists.
Who openly declare who they are (Muslim warriors for a dominating Islam), what their aims are (a global gulag called the Caliphate), and who their enemies are (all non-submissive infidels).
Good luck trying to deny it, Mr. West.
Dame Eliza, the former director-general of MI5, said the radicalisation of teenage Muslims "from first exposure, to extremism, to active participation in terrorist plotting" was now worryingly rapid.
Dame Eliza, writing in the periodical Policing: A Journal of Policing and Practice, said that 1,700 terrorists in 200 networks, "scattered across the country" are thought to be plotting 30 attacks at any one time.
She warned of the "pressing demand" for the police to create a secret network of Muslim spies capable of improving intelligence gathering.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/08/nterr208.xml
With this kind of reasoning, England is screwed; you might as well raise the black flag over No. 10 Downing!
It's Over!
You have lost!
Robert and friends of Jihadwatch
sorry for the second posting, but there is now another video on Youtube that I think you and your readers would really appreciate :
John Braveheart Smeaton
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OclBpqNGM9U&mode=related&search=
it is stirring stuff . . .
Purinuch
We were told recently that there are al Q'aida sypathisers in the police who cannot be sacked for some obscure reason. If that's true, then my money is on the jihadist ideology stamping out Sir Alan West, not the other way round.
Thats doable if they stop importing them and lock up and deport 15000 a year.
They could clean it up in half the time if they are serious about it.
Jihadist thinking hasn't been stamped out in 1400 years. What makes Mr. West think he can do it in 15 years? Moronic politicans.
Even assuming that it is possible to assimilate the existing moslem population in the U.K. in 15 years, that it is possible to bring them to some semblance of British values and behaviors, it won't work as long as the immigration gate remains wide open and the moslem numbers are constantly reinforced by unassimilated newcomers. So the first step is to halt all further moslem immigration. Especially important is to stop the practice of moslems going back to the old country to get married and then returning to Britain with the new spouse. Let them know that the new spouse will not be allowed in.
Admiral West says:
But neither of those conditions are being met. No country can be said to be fully applying itself to addressing the jihad threat while it is unwilling even to name it, and is more concerned with giving offense than protecting its citizens. Nor are anti-"terror" efforts being applied "across the board." Almost everywhere, the response to the global jihad is a study in poorly-informed (or willfully deluded) half-measures with respect to surveillance, immigration policy, and ideological engagement.
And, while dependency on oil gives Islamic countries a means for economic blackmail, a steady income with which to propagate the jihad ideology, and money to build arsenals that threaten Israel and other nations, even if Britain were to bring all of its resources to bear against the jihad, the result after 15 years would only be a good start.
15 years?
Yes, I agree. In 15 years the states fuelling the New Cold War will be bust. Not much oil left, high population, not enough water for economic development, zilch intellctual development, and maybe civil wars tearing them apart.
Yes, 15 (or 25) years on, the threat will be diminished.
That language distinction between British English and American English continues to grow.
the guy is bad informed or ignorant about the specific matter, IMHO. Effective counter insurgency activity positively ends after a term of about 40 years, not 15.
15 years terms is only about the duration of the maxim attrition period.
He needs to study again british experience in Malaysia which is the standard source and universal military school text on the argument.
The reluctance to call a spade a spade, for fear of offending those who want to kill us, does a disservice not only to non-Muslims but to all Muslims who claim to be uncomfortable with what is being done in their name.
Put aside the fact that these same Muslims don't do enough within their own communities to prevent the brainwashing of their young, the results of which are seen today in Pakistan. The idea that we would offend all Muslims by pointing out that SOME Muslims are using Islam to justify their violence is nothing short of absurd.
No one shows such deference to the so-called religious right when they oppose abortion. No one is afraid to call them extremists or give offense. Few Christians are offended by the condemnation of these acts of violence. Those that are offended don't take that offense as license to commit violence themselves.
Our sensitivity to Muslim sensibilities suggests that our values are not worth defending vigorously if such actions might give offense to one segment of the population. And what if they are offended? The people who are offended by a fight against violence are always welcome to leave the country and find a Muslim country where they would be more "comfortable" with Islamic tenets.
15 years! What utter nonsence! What a cop out! It took Britain 15 to 20 years to reach the situation with the Muslim population it is struggling with today.
Not wanting to be an alarmist, but sir you do not have 15 years to deal with this problem. By the time 15 years comes around you will have seen a whole new generation of Islamists bent on destroying the British government in favor of a caliphate, and sharia law.
Just how are you going to debrief these young Muslim heads of mush when you can't even suppress the Imans', and Islamic clerics that are recruiting them to jihad right in downtown UK everyday?
I'm sorry but your answer to solving such a constantly growing problem in the UK is way to passive and lazy, you need an aggressive and determined program for eradication of this growing threat.
"I have a lot of Muslim friends and they see themselves as British. We've got to be very careful. The threat is to our British way of life and all of our British people."
-- from a statement by Alan West, recently appointed to "sort out" the problem of "radical" Islam
Is Alan West familiar with Muhammad's famous statement that "war is deception"? Is he familiar with how so much in Muhammad's life -- to the great admiration of Muslims -- pt into practice what he preached, for he deceived those who would not succumb to him, whether individuals or tribes, and relished their gory fate -- Muhammad, "uswa hasana" and "al-insan al-kammil"?
Does Alan West now for a certainty that although he has a "lot of Muslim friends" those "friends" are unlikely to tell him about Quran 5.51, which tells Muslims they must not take "Jews and Christians as friends" and that in many other places, in the Qur'an, and in the Hadith, explains the evil of Unbelievers, and why they are to be shunned, but also why it is possible to feign friendship with them in order to protect and promote Islam? Does Alan West have any familiarity with these doctrines, or the experience of many Infidels living in Dar al-Islam, or even tryinhg to help Muslims, as the American and British soldiers have tried in Iraq, only to be dealt with meretriciously at almost every turn? Has Alan West consulted with Jean-Louis Bruguiere, the unfoolable head of France's counter-terrorism? Has he talked to those non-Muslims who have grown up in the Muslim world, and have, as Jews and Christians, or Hindus (in Pakistan and Bangladesh and Indonesia), or Buddhists (in southern Thailand or, in small numbers, in Indonesia)?
Is Alan West aware of what Boumedienne said about how the Arabs and Islam would conquer Europe, which had resisted outright military conquest by the Arabs, through the wombs of Muslim women -- made the statement in public, at the U.N., in 1974? Is he aware of how often this demographic conquest is discussed in the newspapers (even in "Dawn," the English-language Pakistani paper), of Dar al-Islam (he does know, doesn't he, about the permanent state of war between Believers and Infidels that Islam teaches must exist, and he does know, doesn't he, that Dar al-Islam must expand until it eventually swallows up Dar al-Harb, so that Islam dominates everywhere, and everywhere Muslims rule?
Does Alan West think that having "a lot of Muslim friends" - charming people, liquid-brown-eyed, soft-voiced, self-deprecating smile, the whole works -- might actually be past masters at this game, and it is not for the innocent Westerners to rely on this or that "Muslim friend" or "colleague" (you know, like that nice Pakistani in the I.T. department who asks about your children, and shows much more interest than any of your hard-as-nails interested-only-in-their-job non-Muslim colleagues?) is enough? What about a little book-reading, to supplement mere "personal experience"? What about following in time and space the history of Islam, the history of Islamic conquest, to see if indeed it is widely various, if indeed that business about Islam being a religion "of peace" means what some take it to mean, if indeed the behavior of his "lot of Muslim friends" is sufficient for him to rely on in the making of high policy, in the attempt not to preen over his own "tolerance" and greater understanding -- moral self-preening should have no place -- but to protect others, those to whom he has a responsiblity, a solemn duty, to find out -- starting with what the books and what the many articulate defectors from Islam have offered as their own testimony, and what the hundreds of Western scholars who devoted their lives to the study of Islam and the history of Islamic conquest, in the century (roughly 1860-1960) wrote before the Period of Arab Money and the Collaborators took over the academic study of Islam, and managed to throttle, and almost consign to a permanent submersion in Lethe, all those scholars -- Snouck Hurgronje, Arthur Jeffery, Antoine Fattal, K. S. Lal, St. Clair Tisdall, Henri Lammens, Samuel Zwemer, Edmond Fagnan, Georges Vajda, Charles-Emmanuel Dufourcq --who are now being, thank god, and just in time, re-discovered, re-published, and re-read, as people are now fed up with the espositos, armonstrongs, kepels and roys, who have so badly misinformed them.
Continued ignorance on the part of West, and the West, is no longer possible. He has a duty to inform himself, as we have a duty, to ourselves, to fully inform ourselves and to inform others as best we can.
Otherwise, Alan West should get out of the way.
"This is all so stupid! If it were'nt muslims causing problems it would be christians, jews or someone else. As humans I believe we do have inherant views on right and wrong that are universal! Not that they should be but that they are. Religion gets in the way of decency and common sense more than teaching it. As long as you have people you will never have peace. So I guess we will just have to deal with whatever."
What the hell does that mean? Sounds like adolescent nihilistic angst.
The Middle East's oil fields, in league with islam, fuel jihad. If we seize the oil fields, the jihad - without oil revenue - will sputter.
When Western politicians begin talking about seizing the oil fields (instead of appeasing our muslim "friends"), we will know that they are serious about putting an end to jihad.
With Fearless Leaders like this.... who needs enemies?
PMK,
The people who are offended by a fight against violence are always welcome to leave the country and find a Muslim country where they would be more "comfortable" with Islamic tenets.
Are you talking about Muslims leaving? Because not only am I supportive of that, I think we should start deporting non-Muslims to go live in those hellholes, too. Support Muslims' "right" to preach jihad or argue that Muslim jihadis have "legitimate complaints", get your citizenship taken away. Islam has nothing to offer us as non-Muslims. Even their "critique" of Western foreign policy is based on the mistaken assumption that their societies contain anything of value worth preserving. Far from being mankind's salvation, Islam is the worst piece of bad luck the human race has ever had. Any Westerner supporting the continued existence of Islam, consciously and with knowledge of Islamic doctrine, should be put into a mental institution. "Islamophilia" should be classified as a mental disorder along the lines of coprophilia.
If there are only two choices, I'd rather the planet be destroyed than it come under an Islamic caliphate system. To me, it is worse that there be a global Islamic government than that there be no human life whatsoever.
Nuclear alert by ex-head of MI5
In a stark warning for the future, Dame Eliza added: "It remains a very real possibility that they may, sometime, somewhere attempt a chemical biological, radiological or even nuclear attack".
Lions and tigers and bears! Oh, my! What should be done?
She warned of the "pressing demand" for the police to create a secret network of Muslim spies capable of improving intelligence gathering.
With reasoning like this couple with what PM Brown said about not using the words muslim and terrorists in the same sentence, you might as well raise the black flag of islam over No. 10 Downing.
England is lost; and the US will be soon. Not because of the people, but because of the lunatics that are running the top levels in both countries.
Well, Admiral Sir Alan West -- its time to abandon ship! Every man, woman, and child for themselves!
What's this? No Life boats? Wait! There they are on the horizon drifting away from the ship with all the elites on board!
Ahoy there mates! Ahoy! Guess they are too far away to hear us now?
Opps, heres the link:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/07/08/nterr208.xml
venividivici,
Yes. Anyone who is offended by a fight against religiously-directed violence, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, should leave. I don't see why anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim, should be offended by our condemnation of Muslims who say their actions are dictated by Islamic theology. Anyone who is so offended by our desire to defend our values that they would consider giving offense as a license for violence is welcome to leave. I would recommend they move to an Islamic country, since none of them see anything wrong with what is being done in the name of Islam and are unwilling to renounce not only the attackers but also those who preach this doctrine.
What do Britons think about the statement by the new Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith, who said that "terrorists are criminals, coming from all religious backgrounds"?
Naive Infidel Alert!!!
Hoping to eradicate essential features of a 1400 year old ideology in 15 years!
Quick, strap patient to gurney, brace head, force open eyelids, position Spencer book in front of face.
If we're lucky, it might take Admiral Sir Alan West fifteen years to GET A CLUE.
If we're lucky.
Where do they find all these morons taking leadership roles these days?
It's a bloody nightmare.
My dog is brighter than all these bastards put together.
If there are only two choices, I'd rather the planet be destroyed than it come under an Islamic caliphate system. To me, it is worse that there be a global Islamic government than that there be no human life whatsoever.
Posted by: venividivici
It may very well come to that. Pakistan has nukes. Five Asian countries have nukes. None of them would really mourn the demise of the West.
Ahmadinejad has said he would be willing to see his country be destroyed if it meant the Mahdi would reappear.
Armageddon may yet come to pass, all because we were too afraid of our own shadows to do what had to be done in 2001, and 1998, and 1993, and 1979, and and and.....the list goes on.
Sir Alan West's remarks should not surprise anyone. He was appointed by the pusillaminous Gordon Brown who thinks it wrong to suggest that there is any link between terrorism and Islam. Gordon Brown, of course, owes his position to the electorate.
It is really up to the voters to turf Gordon Brown and his like out of office.
Robert: For pete's sake, Admiral, the people you want to "snitch" are not avoiding "snitching" because to do so would be "un-British." They are avoiding "snitching" because they are "un-British": they feel no loyalty to the British state, but rather consider themselves only members of the worldwide Islamic umma, and a Muslim doesn't turn in another Muslim to a non-Muslim authority.
Boy, aint that the truth...and it is proof that the Admiral should go back to steering ships.
It won’t take fifteen years. After 9/11 37% of Americans had a negative view of Islam. The percentage had grown to 46% per a poll from sixteen months ago. Since then we’ve had the Flying Imams, a couple of mall shootings, Doctors with Bombs, a couple of increasingly good documentaries, and more of Iraq the reality TV show. Ahmedinejad adds spice. Wait until the BNP finds cases of medical malpractice.
The majority of the American electorate now has a negative view of Islam. Presidential approval ratings go up and down. Islamic approval ratings will remain on a steady decline because once a person learns about what Islam really teaches, a negative view stays a negative view.
A Constitutional Amendment requires a two thirds vote of both houses. The public is learning. And these idiots aren’t disciplined enough to keep quiet. My gut says that the British are ahead of the Americans in being really sick of putting up with our Muslim friends.
More like 15 years for Britain to fall.
15 years eh?. What brilliance. Over 1000 years radical Islam has not been eradicated, the reality is it's growing. We have 2 problems, Islam and the fools running government and it's institutions.
Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini said: “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless"
What would be the plan to eradicate the radicals over 15 years?, Is the importing of the cloakers going to stop in the meantime? or is the fuel going to be continually poured on the immigration fire?
We have a very bad case of the "witless" who are endangering our own security.
Nobody seems to have noticed this little contradiction.
First this:
"" Meanwhile Gordon Brown said he wanted a system to help identify potential suspects put in place across Europe. ""
Then this:
http://tinyurl.com/yu9v8b
They either don't know if they're coming or going (going, actually, at the next election), or in the collective they constitute a lying toad. And the incompetence is astounding.
In addition, of course, we have these two current stories:
http://tinyurl.com/398fmy
http://tinyurl.com/28sr9x
And with recent stories about Muslim members of our medical profession, including stories like this one:
http://tinyurl.com/3dcrhz
Rejected by Oz, but good enough for the UK eh?
So our security is a nonsense, we're not co-operating with others, our police can't get rid of suspected jihadis, our immigration service can't be trusted to reject jihadis if they turn up at our border, we're recruiting incompetent and untrustworthy Muslim doctors while we have thousands of our own who can't get work ... it goes on and on and on ... and on
"" ... the Admiral should go back to steering ships.
Posted by: duh_swami ""
Er, duh Swami ... he probably can't because the Royal Navy has more admirals than it has ships. And has had for a long time.
In addition, we've been selling off perfectly good ships at 1/4 price, along with military property, to raise money to fund our Afghan and Iraq war - whilst giving Pakistan half a billion for the madrassas (remember that one?)
(Just like our hospitals now have more managers than beds.)
There is so MUCH incompetence on display here that you start to wonder: is it really incompetence, or is someone playing out an agenda?
America can depend on most of we ordinary Brit folk - you cannot depend on our higher echelons.
With someone like Admiral West in charge of their security, Britains can now sleep soundly in their beds. When they wake up they'll most likely be living in an Islamic State, but, at least, they'll have the satisfaction of knowing that they've done the politically correct thing.
oh plezz.....why does this not surprise me?
Ironic his name is "West," isn't it? Mr. dhimmi, your surname should be "East."
I agree, came/saw/conquered - if the Planet was to become an Islamic Caliphate, better to have no Planet. My God, when I think of all females on Earth living life as baby-factories in black sheets, lorded over by misogynist Muslim males, basically slaves...A futuristic Nightmare.
Right, better to have no Planet. Hopefully, we will not come to that.
America can depend on most of we ordinary Brit folk - you cannot depend on our higher echelons
Posted by: Sir Henry Morgan
I believe you when you say that the TRUE British can be counted on.
But I'm afraid our upper echelons are also beholden to the P.C. Gods of Idiocy also (P.C.=Proven Crap).
Case in point:
Michael Chertoff, Homeland Security Chief of Extreme Gross Incompetents had this to say after the No Terrorist Left behind bill failed (A.K.A. the Immigration Reform Bill, the Shamasty Bill, the We don’t have to listen to 80% of the peasants Bill)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56467
It takes so long because that is all they do is talk about ..other things, than that and we fall behind than other things, while not stopping it from growing right here. I am dissappointed 7,500 Iraqi's were flown here to Detroit! All paid for! Another place not to go! No one screened!
All the time talking too about what to do about the illegals, they should of did what they said they would along time ago. Put up cameras and people can watch from the internet. Why are they so slow? I believe there is a answer for everything. It is bull that a certain people power do not do what they fully can. Hell, do they watch movies? A little imagination goes along ways. That is what al-gaeda does. The Palestines act like spoiled brats. Grown ones!
Alot could be put to a stop but they just are not doing it. Like Darfur! How many times as a kid did you hear, eat your food there are people starving in Africa...,, They still are. I cannot imagine such a horrid death. Why the blacks are empowered in their own self grief of our ancestors where slaves. ok, i didn't enslave them but why do you leave the ones behind a slave to death? Starvation? When you can help instead of crying about what? What are they going to change?
They keep themselfs down.
Just like we must not let islamist come here. Our doors are shut. We are at a time of war!
Of coarse they wouldn't do that, besides some dhimmi will get in the White House. Guess, that will be fun. What do they have to look forward too? Because we are going to complain like the Palestinians! wha wan....
It could all be over in 5 years if we simply named the enemy what it is, Islam, and then move into a united position as Western nations to oust the vermin from our midst, send them back to surround Mecca and then bring the fight to their shores.
Of course, I know this will never happen, because our leaders are weak and they are rubbing off on our citizens. Fast, soft and cowed we have become.
It will take 15 years to raise a generation strong enough to defeat the Islamists and that's what I'm working every day at the Anvil. As usual, I'm ahead of the curve.
Foehammer:
How can we raise a generation to fight when they don't see a problem? You know how leftist and anti American and anti West our educational system is. Furthermore, we've got Saudi money pouring into our public schools to "educate" us about Islam... rather, indoctrinate.
The people that come to the Anvil damn well see the problem, and I'm on MySpace and YouTube for the very reason of getting to the younger generation.
And, as it so happens, I'm only 40 years old myself and have other powers at my disposal to affect an upcoming generation. But I'll leave that for our enemies to figure out.
Furthermore, we've got Saudi money pouring into our public schools to "educate" us about Islam... rather, indoctrinate.
Posted by: atheling at July 8, 2007 3:20 PM
..... and American presidents are too eager to help: http://www.blessedcause.org/proof/Clinton%20Embracing%20Islam%20selling%20out%20children.htm
"" ... the Admiral should go back to steering ships.
Posted by: duh_swami ""
Er, duh Swami ... he probably can't because the Royal Navy has more admirals than it has ships. And has had for a long time.
Yes, Sir Henry, but due to the current levels of incompetance, it may be better to assign two Admirals to steer the ship's, maybe three. As long as they are turning the wheel in the same direction that ought to work just fine. Keep's em off the street's and out of trouble...An unemployed Admiral is a liability...have a good day...swami
To any Brits here: Is it illegal, against the law, to criticize Islam in England?
Michael Chertoff, Homeland Security Chief of Extreme Gross Incompetents had this to say after the No Terrorist Left behind bill failed (A.K.A. the Immigration Reform Bill, the Shamasty Bill, the We don’t have to listen to 80% of the peasants Bill)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=56467
Posted by: senor doeboy at July 8, 2007 3:02 PM
So, let me get this straight. You won't enforce the law, isn't that right? Nice catch-22 spin, snakehead!
The great enemy from without is Islam (a brutal faith which grants peace only when it gets its way and which is the only major religion that is totalitarian in structure). The great enemy from within is modern liberalism (solely responsible for political correctness, multiculturalism and a stupefying inability to realize that civilization must not only be decent and sophisticated but tough and muscular as well). The two combined could destroy Western Civilization. I remain optimistic we can defeat these forces but it will not be easy by a long shot. Much in the realms of awareness and action remains to be done.
Reports like this inspire confidence in the authorities.
The terrorist who became a London traffic warden
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23403376-details/The+terrorist+who+became+a+London+traffic+warden/article.do
" To any Brits here: Is it illegal, against the law, to criticize Islam in England?
Posted by: darcy "
Darcy: well, it's like this: Nick Griffen, leader of the BNP once called Islam a " ... wicked and vicious faith."
He was put on trial for it, with a potential seven years pokey hanging over him. He was cleared by a jury.
The government didn't like this, and making use of the fact that they've legislated away the double-jeopardy rule (you didn't think Britain was a free country did you?), they put him on trial again under the same charges and threat.
Again a jury cleared him ... so they've given up. They tried to make criticising Islam illegal, but failed under current law.
Gordon Brown's response was to declare that the law would have to be changed. They haven't done that yet, but I'm willing to bet they give it a go.
But no, as of this moment it's not illegal to criticise Islam. Whether that's the same as not being illegal to criticise Muslims is another question ... but as anyone who reads anything I write knows, I criticise them to my hearts content (well, not quite: there's plenty I WANT to say that I don't).
Also, I know that "Islam" means "Submission."
What does "Qur'an" mean?
Thank you, Sir Henry Morgan.
I'm glad to hear that. But no, I can't say I consider Britain a free country anymore. Wow, no "double-jeopardy" law.
What, you can't criticize Muslims? Got to be kidding! They criticize Jews and Christians! But more than that - it's peoples' RIGHT to be able to criticize ANY group of people - be it Nazis, Jehovah's Witnesses, Muslims, Christians, Reindeer people of Northern Finland.
Free Speech protects annoying/insulting/critical speech. Furthermore, any belief system (such as Islam) and historical figure (such as Muhammed) CAN be criticized in a Free Country!
All the time some Americans (and no doubt some others) are crowing about how 'Britain is doomed', '15 years to fall' and other assorted drivel - your borders North and South are being breached by Islamists, you have a media and political class at least as Dhimmi, if not more so, than ours. Muslim cab drivers who think they can make up their own laws, several terror training camps WITHIN your territory (I think a recent estimate was 60) that you do absolutely nothing about; Islamic societies in universities that are taking over the campus in several colleges and an Islamic lobbying/Taqiyya-generation group that puts any of our lame efforts completely to shame.
Your PC brigade is even more vociferous and powerful than our own, you have had several incidents of Muslims shooting dead your non-Muslim countrymen, you have honour killings, and like us you are actively targeted as a declared enemy of al-Qaeda.
So just what is it, do you think, that you've got to be so smug about? Wake up - we're all under threat and we're all in the same fight. :sigh:
"England is lost; and the US will be soon. Not because of the people, but because of the lunatics that are running the top levels in both countries."
posted above
Maybe the U.S. might loose the left coast or pockets of the liberal New England coast, but not Fly-Over America. We still believe in the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution. Unfortunately you Brits have no such guarantee. Those that do have what firearms are permitted have an inventory of their fireams listed along with the address where such weapons may be found. There is no such list for most of us here in the U.S. We will never give in to Islam or any other evil ideology. The real citizens of this country will one day stand up and say, "Enough is enough!" If we have to resort to individual weapons, we will use them. We might have to start over again, but FREEDOM will not be vanquished from these shores!
Any sane person should be able to read into the article what we all know. The shit is fixin' to hit the fan. There have been many false starts, and there may be more false starts. But we can all be assured it is coming whether we want it to or not. We can only be prepared and ready.
Regarding Free Speech in America. A while back Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch posted the incident regarding Congressman Ginny Brown Waite and the Florida Chapter of CAIR. We need more people like her in our government!!!
If she runs for President I would vote for her!
Dear Mr. Bedier:
Your faxed letter of November 3, 2006 was received and I am most happy to respond.
I carry a copy of the United Stated Constitution with me wherever I go. I have taken an oath to protect it and dedicate my life to its preservation. Although our Constitution was written more than 200 years ago, it guarantees every citizen certain inalienable rights that the founders of our country believed to be the cornerstone of our society. Two of those rights are directly addressed in your letter; they are the right to freedom of religion and the right to freedom of speech.
Mr. and Mrs. Hogan have shown tremendous fortitude by resisting the pressures of your group to retract their statements. I am sorry that Jeb Bush and Carol Jean Jordan from the Republican Party were so quick to also forget that we have freedom of speech and that the Hogans were made to feel that they are the ones who were in the wrong. The Hogans have a right to their opinion just as you have a right to yours. Mrs. Hogan expressed in her statements the views of many of my constituents, and while they do not encourage harmony in their community, they should demonstrate to you how many United States citizens perceive your faith. Your area of concern should not be focused on the statements of the Hogans, but rather upon the actions of many in your community who created these beliefs.
Americans should find it very interesting that you want me to criticize Mrs. Hogan’s letter to the editor expressing her views about Muslim terrorists and her views on why county employees should not have been used to deliver and pick up the games celebrating the end of Ramadan. There were several other church events occurring that same week and I did not notice the county employees helping at those events. The basic issue here is Mrs. Hogan’s first amendment right of freedom of speech.
It is clear to me, as it should be to you, that the views of the Hogan family, as well as most other Americans, have been shaped by the radical militants of Islam. On a daily basis we are reminded by the media that there are those of your faith who openly seek to destroy everything we believe in. These militants express a complete intolerance to other religions and our way of life. Most of my constituents have expressed to me their concern that Muslims living in our community have not disavowed these violent beliefs nor condemned the terrorist acts committed against our country. Your organization has had more than five years since the September 11 attack, and even longer since the attacks on American Embassies in Yemen, Tanzania, or even the first attack on the World Trade Center, to publicly disavow and condemn these attacks.
After the September 11 terrorist attack on our country, I reached out to the Muslim community because many of my citizens were of the belief that all Muslims were to be blamed. I worked with local Muslims to bring the community together to overcome the fears on both sides. While I met many fine Muslims who sincerely do care about the United States, I also met some local Muslims who expressed vehement anti-Semitic views and some who even attempted to justify the extremist wing ideology.
You may recall our meeting on May 29, 2004, when I met with you and other members of your organization where I shared this very sentiment. You should also remember that I was invited over to the home of a prominent doctor in Hernando County to allegedly “have some tea and see how his children were doing.” Imagine how surprised I was upon entering the home to find a group of eight or more men sitting in a semicircle preparing to have a discussion with me. It certainly was not the casual social event I was invited to, but not being the type to shy away from a healthy discussion, I joined in and listened.
It was suggested to me that the group needed a Member of Congress who would be sympathetic to the CAIR-Muslim view. I then told the group that I would not be the person for them due to the fact that neither I, nor my constituents, felt that the American Muslims or CAIR had adequately disavowed past terrorist acts. Whereupon you said that CAIR had taken out a full-page ad in the New York Times and several other large major newspapers. I responded with something like “Well, I am not sure the majority of my constituents subscribe to those papers.”
From there on the conversation went downhill. When it became apparent to you that I was not willing to champion your cause in Washington, you Mr. Bedier, made the following statement, which was so outrageous I remember it almost verbatim. You told me that you had done research on me and found that I was Catholic and then went on to say, “Catholic priests pose more of a terrorism threat by having sex with young altar boys than those who flew planes into the World Trade Center.” I found the statement so bizarre that I asked you to repeat it and without hesitation, you did. It was at this point that I stood up and told you that the meeting was over. I also pointed out the fact that the Catholic priests did not kill 3,000 innocent people, and that we knew where the guilty priests were located and they were not hiding in caves. I then left.
Under our Constitution you have the right to say what you believe. You will not be arrested, beaten, or made to fear for your beliefs; but you also don’t have the right to tell others what they must believe. I did not agree with you and spoke my piece before I left the doctor’s home. Again, I remind you, free speech is a right guaranteed under the Constitution. I did not demand in the media that you retract your statement. Several moderate Muslims have since heard about our verbal exchange and apologized for your very inappropriate attack on my religion.
Additionally, you should know that the Hogans and I over the years have not always agreed on many issues. We have, however, always respected each other’s right to free speech guaranteed by the Constitution.
By the way, my office is not responsible for the appointment of anyone to a seat on the County Commission. Your statement that my office appointed Mr. Hogan is inaccurate inasmuch as this area of our government is the responsibility of the Governor of Florida. I suggest you not only review the U.S. Constitution but also the Florida constitution and statutes.
Mr. Bedier, in closing, I know many fine Muslims who would be well served by your resignation from the local CAIR office. Your militancy and manipulation of facts does not serve them well.
Sincerely,
Ginny Brown-Waite
Member of Congress
[url]http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/014003.php[/url]
Here's the link.
I don't see too many here crowing about Britain's Islamification. Indeed, many of us are quite saddened and worried about it.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/014003.php
Ack! Sorry, this is the correct url.
So just what is it, do you think, that you've got to be so smug about? Wake up - we're all under threat and we're all in the same fight.
Un:dhimmi,
You wake up. People who are commenting here are talking about our frustration with what our leaders are doing. You indicate the same level of frustration we have with the jihad being waged against us. We're all in the same boat. Why are you taking people's comments personally?
My gut says that the British are ahead of the Americans in being really sick of putting up with our Muslim friends.
Pez
We were told recently that there are al Q'aida sypathisers in the police who cannot be sacked for some obscure reason. If that's true, then my money is on the jihadist ideology stamping out Sir Alan West, not the other way round.
Burnside
What offends you in either of these?
Are non-UK citizens invited to keep their mouths shut about the proclamations of British leaders? As you say, we're all in the same boat. Why are you directing your frustration at us?
The only people I see "crowing" about England's fall are Muslims or sympathizers (like Naseem and Progressive). Almost everyone else is worried about BOTH of our countries and their entries reflect it.
Only 10 to 15 years? That's quick! It's been almost 1,500 years since Islam started the war on terror against the non-Muslim world and Mohammad led his first jihad.
Uh, un dhimmi - nobody here is "crowing" about the Islamification of Britain. Speaking for myself, as someone who holds two degrees in English Literature, I am shocked by the pitiful dhimmi PC'ness of Britain's "leaders." I e-mailed your new dhimmi PM Brown, expressing my outrage at his dictate that no one can put the word "Muslim" in front of "Terrorist." I suggested he read Orwell's "1984" again. I suggested he open the Koran and read.
I am devastated for England. I'm also devastated for my own country, the U.S. I used to be devastated for France but since they got Sarkozy now I don't worry about them so much!
When poster Sir Henry Morgan (above) tells me that a man was put on trial in England -twice- for saying "Islam is a wicked and vicious faith," I want to cry. One, a little thing called freedom of speech in which critical speech is protected and Two, HE'S RIGHT! AND PUT ON TRIAL FOR SPEAKING THE TRUTH!
It's all so horrifying I can't believe it's really happening - but, I do, of course, believe.
Robert Spencer posted: A "disparate core" of "racists"? Disparate in what way?
Well disparate in the sense that, two came from Jordan, another two from Iraq, two from India, and two from our greatest ally, Saudi Arabia, I believe. So it is quite apparant that there is nothing in common here, except that they are all doctors. And ofcourse they were different races as well, so accusing of them "racism" is really not on.
Ofcourse two liked Mercedes cars, and the other two were fond of Jeeps. Again there is no common thread for the authorites to investigate. Going into engine size would be going too far, as they were doctors and not engineers. So again a dead end.
This is really a serious matter and we at Jihad Watch need to help out the authorities, so they do not waste time going down dead ends.
Posted by KAOSKTRL : Thats doable if they stop importing them and lock up and deport 15000 a year. They could clean it up in half the time if they are serious about it.
Actually far less time then that. Once a policy of no more Muslim immigration, followed up with repatriation with financial assistance starts up, many Muslims will see the the light, and leave voluntarily.
Once the Muslim mass has been reduced significantly, the protective environment that the massive Ummah provides to terrorists, will be gone, and along with it, the terrorism.
But at this moment in time, NuLabour is still seeking the Muslim vote. Liitle does it realise that they are losing the Infidel vote - and that includes Blacks, Sikhs and Hindus.
Dame Eliza Manningham-Buller, former head of Mi5 "warned of the 'pressing demand' for the police to create a secret network of Muslim spies capable of improving intelligence gathering".
Pray tell us, Dame Eliza, precisely how you would prevent jihadi infiltration of such an organisation? After all, Britain already has an overt network of uniformed anti-terror operatives - they are called police forces. And this week we heard that eight cops and civilian staff are suspected to have links to terror groups (although we won't make a fuss about it - would hate to cause them offence).
Cup of tea, anyone?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/017295.php#comments
This war started in 622AD. How the Hell does he think he can sort it out in 15 years unless we surrender? Get real read THE RIVER WAR
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as
hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The
effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly
systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of
property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A
degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the
next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every
woman must belong to some man as his absolute property must delay the
final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a
great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities.
Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how
to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social
development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists
in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and
proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa,
raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that
Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science the civilisation
of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
SIR WINSTON CHURCHILL
You gotta love the use of "disparate" and "caliphate" in the same sentence! My God, what an idiot.
West is a worm, a quivering mass of pre-Cambrian one-celled spineless jellyfish.
Sir Henry Morgan Re your 4.01 post
"Gordon Brown's response was to declare that the law would have to be changed."
I meant to write to Gordon Brown and help him out when he said this. In the late 1940's in communist Hungry a factory worker got so fed up with his lot he stood in the middle of the shop floor and shouted; "Look me at me!Janos ------ 34 years old 2 kids and I cant even afford a packet of cigarettes in this workers f---ing paradise!" He got 2 years for anti-state propaganda and I thought that change the odd word and this was just the sort of law Gordon was looking for.
“So just what is it, do you think, that you've got to be so smug about [addressing Americans]?”
Un:dhimmi,
Haven’t you realized that this is really “BritWatch”, and that the main aim of many posters on this site is to point out that Britain is doomed (oh, and if they’ve got time, they’ll do a bit of jihad-watching to keep up appearances)? But if you fancy a little America-bashing, God help you.
(I exclude from this the balanced and sensible thoughts of Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald, of course, which is why, as an Englishman, I keep reading.) Don't let the b**tards grind you down!
darcy-
al-Qur'an means "The Recitation" (or, as it becomes in practice: "The Brainwashing"). Because Mohammad was illiterate.
Sir Henry Morgan-
The trial of the BNP leader in England for "outing" Islam's calls to terrorism would make an interesting dramatization, ala "Inherit the Wind".
Do you or does anyone have a link to the trial transcript?
venevidivici-
"Coprophilia" would be a step up.
Matamoros
Employing Muslims in the security services to infiltrate Muslim terror cells will not work. All that will happen is that the security services will become infiltrated. "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy", comes to mind.
BOYCOTT Islam
"For pete's sake, Admiral, the people you want to "snitch" are not avoiding "snitching" because to do so would be "un-British." They are avoiding "snitching" because they are "un-British": they feel no loyalty to the British state, but rather consider themselves only members of the worldwide Islamic umma, and a Muslim doesn't turn in another Muslim to a non-Muslim authority."
I'm going to take minor issue with that statement that they feel themselves to be ONLY members of the ummah.
Because actually I think they've got an ingenious dual citizenship thing going on here. They're members of the ummah when they're on the offensive. And they're members of the ummah when they claim, as so many apparently British muslims do, if you read any typical "Have Your Say" thread at one of the various British newspapers - 'Well what did you expect that if your nation attacks Muslims, then you will be attacked here in your own streets?" When they say something like that, they speak as a member of the transnational ummah, who owes no loyalty to their western nation-state.
BUT, as soon as they might come under surveillance or profiling or become subject to any kind of counter-terrorist measure, all of a sudden - lo and behold - they are first and foremost primarily a British citizen! And they have rights! And how dare you do such a thing to a British citizen!
See how this works? See how brilliant this dual citizenship thing is?
Well as a thought experiment, how about this turn-about-is-fair-play-logic?
Every native infidel westerner ALSO holds a dual citizenship of sorts. 1) the citizenship he holds in his native western nation-state and 2) the citizenship he holds as a member of the non-ummah which is the mirror-image of the ummah - a transnational infidel citizenship as it were, which makes one the target of war by one of the citizens of the ummah, no matter where one might reside.
That would mean - shocker of shockers here - that just as Muslims living in the west, justify attacks upon their fellow infidel citizens by taking refuge in their "ummah citizenship", infidels living in the west could equally justify attacks upon their fellow Muslim citizens from the perspective of their own dual citizenship identities as members of the non-ummah.
This is the moral logic of Islam. It's a moral logic that cuts both ways. See - we all have dual-citizenship now! We're all nationals AND transnationals! Then, when the likes of CAIR complain about hate crimes against fellow Muslim citizens, members of the non-ummah could write into comments threads conveniently justifying crimes towards Muslims here by citing say, grievances about the way, e.g. Christians are treated in the Middle east or in Pakistan by saying - well what did you expect when you and yours are constantly murdering our fellow members of the non-ummah over there!
By this thought experiment, I am merely asking any Muslims who are still capable of moral and logical thought to consider the ramifications of your "Us" vs "Them", transnational way of thinking and to imagine a scenario by which infidels could play the very same game and adopt the very same implied dual citizenship in order to morally justify crimes committed against their own fellow Muslim citizens.
How secure would most Muslims feel if they knew that something like 80% of their fellow infidel citizens defined themselves not primarily as citizens of the nation states they live in but rather as members of the non-ummah?
British, American, Canadian, Australian and European posters on this site are united against our common enemy. The battle is not with each other.
Three quotations.
Jacques Ellul, on the jihad, foreword to Bat Ye'or's 'The Decline of Eastern Christianity under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude': "we have heard so much about the tolerance and fundamental pacifism of Islam, that it is necessary to recall its nature, WHICH IS FUNDAMENTALLY WARLIKE".
18th century American ambassador to the then President, after an infuriating but also illuminating meeting with one of the Muslim Barbary pirate chiefs: "We should not fight them at all UNLESS WE ARE WILLING TO FIGHT THEM FOREVER".
And from Israeli writer Yaacov Lozowick, "Right to Exist", recalling a conversation with a friend in 1982. He had been sent to war and was talking with the friend; he observed to the friend, "how much longer [will we have to fight them, the Muslims]?" The friend replied, "AS LONG AS IT TAKES". And Lozowick remarks that the Muslims resisted the Crusaders for 200 years, that they think of the Jews as Crusaders, but that that is a big mistake because "we Jews are another story. 200 years is nothing to us".
Mr West needs to be told, loud and clear, that this is merely the latest stage in the Total War of Islam (the Mohammedans) Against Everybody Else that has been going on since the 7th century, with occasional intermissions. And that if we want to win it, we need to be prepared to hit hard and fasr, over and over, for a long long time. If we want to win we have to somehow convince China and Russia that it's in their interests, too, to crush the mad Mohammedans before Muslim atomic suicide-bombers destroy the planet.
An observation on the Churchill quote. In his time, as he put it, Christianity - Christendom, Western civilisation - was sheltered in the strong arms of science. That strong arm is still there. But now - now, the problem is that so many of us have lost the confidence to use it, because we've been conned into thinking that 'Christendom' is not worth defending.
But it is. It is all worth fighting for, to the limit of our strength and beyond it. Nor do we merely defend Notre Dame, Chartres, St Peter's, Bach, Rembrandt, Shakespeare, Dante, Vermeer, the Royal Ballet, La Scala in Milan. We in what was once 'Christendom' should remember our debt to the Jews - the Ten Commandments! the Psalms! Jesus! Peter! Paul! Einstein! Mahler! Chagall! Sondheim! Menuhin! - and stand implacably with Israel. We should be willing to stand in front of every synagogue, as in front of every church, prepared to fight to the death. Time to make the shield wall.
And beyond that: we must hold close to our hearts, we must be willing to defend all the fragile treasures of humanity, the treasures of every non-Muslim society and civilisation, ALL of which (from the magnificent art of Australian Aborigines and the dances of the Navaho, through to the movies of Ghibili in Japan or the temple dancers of Cambodia and the gospel choirs of South Africa) are threatened by the annihilating will of the global jihad which defines them all as so much worthless jahiliyya.
We stand for life, against the death, death, and more death that is all that the vampire which is Islam gives, all it ever gives, once the loot is used up and there aren't enough dhimmi slaves to keep things going. And we must stand, and fight, FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES.
"" The trial of the BNP leader in England for "outing" Islam's calls to terrorism would make an interesting dramatization, ala "Inherit the Wind".
Do you or does anyone have a link to the trial transcript? "" - Profitsbeard
I've just emailed the BNP to see if they can help with how to get hold of the transcript.
Any success and I'll get it to you. May be a while. May not. I just don't know.
Among other iananities, here is one that is a real a stopper
While you are rubbing your eyes at that, there’s also the little matter of one Salah Idris, an Islamist sympathiser with links to the Islamist regime in Khartoum and who controls 75 per cent of the company which provides the security systems and surveillance for the Houses of Parliament, New Scotland Yard, the Royal Courts of Justice, Ministry of Defence buildings, various nuclear power stations, Texaco and other blue-chip companies. Despite concerns raised repeatedly in the House of Lords by Baroness Cox and others that such an individual controlled the company providing the security of such vulnerable and strategically important institutions, the government swatted them away — on the basis that Salah Idris did not play a role in the day to day running of this company!!
http://www.melaniephillips.com/diary/
Yes but it would be 9 years if the idiots in charge had heeded the warning from 9/11/01 , the PC mind set has led to more deaths and embolden the islamists who parade the streets calling for the murder of anyone mocking Muhammed and islam.
Those who refuse to see security as a means to protect Liberty deserve neither.
Getting rid of the Police doesn't stop crime just as getting rid of the Fire Departments would stop fires.
Plus the threat that killing one Jihadist creates 15 more is a complete lie and myth , just do the math and start with 15 Jihadists , it only take 7 progression to get to roughly 2.5 Billion Muslim terrorists.
Even if one terrorist doubled for every death it would take only about a month until all the muslim were dead merely by suicide .
It sounds alot like the threats by abusers that think if they imply a future harm it will give them control over someone, hey wait....I just discribe Allah and Muhammed.
" It's over....you have lost.."
a reference to Britain from an above post
Thats what many said about them in the dark days of the 1940's but it wasn't true then and it may not be true now. We will see, won't we?
My money is on western civilization and I'm giving odds..
Sir Henry Morgan-
Thanks. I'll do some looking online meantime.
This freespeech battle will be fought again, in many other courtrooms, so it would be nice to have the model for it.
As with the Aussie ministers, fined for quoting the Koran, under Oz's absurd "hatespeech" laws (and who were just semi-aquitted), Muslim jihadist infiltrators -and their infidel useful idiots- will try this legalistic trick over and over to weaken the West and waste our time and our valuable resources.
from JFGR:
"Haven’t you realized that this is really “BritWatch”, and that the main aim of many posters on this site is to point out that Britain is doomed (oh, and if they’ve got time, they’ll do a bit of jihad-watching to keep up appearances)? But if you fancy a little America-bashing, God help you."
Feeling a little sorry for yourself? Do you think that things are cozy and fine for you over there? Of course not! Do you want this couched in gentle terms so you won't feel bad? Sorry, but that's not what you need. You need a kick in the pants so you can get up and do something to get rid of the sorry piece of crap that is your current government!
No one here is Brit bashing, and I'd be the first person to jump on someone who was, being an Anglophile, but your silly and childish comment deserves a scolding.
GROW UP. You're in serious dogs**t over there and you need to quit wallowing in self pity and anti Americanism. Why don't Euros like you QUIT BLAMING AMERICA FOR YOUR STUPID ASININE TROUBLES AND SOLVE THE F**KING PROBLEM YOURSELF??
I'm so fed up with people like you who can only play the blame game and can't take it when the mirror is being held up to you.
Yeah, guess what? We've got LOADS OF PROBLEMS ourselves but we're not as far down the path of suicide that you are. That's a fact. And we're not going to let it happen either.
So quit your whingeing and whimpering and get off your butt and do something for your country, for God's sakes!
And furthermore:
What do you want? Do you want this all swept under the rug? To pretend it's not happening? Do you want us all to play act that everything is jolly in Merrye Olde Englande?
Do you think we like seeing this? Do you think we actually want Britain to be destroyed? No one is rejoicing (except for evil Muslims like Naseem and Progressive) over this. This is not a happy time. We see the future for us if we continue to align ourselves with Europe's death march to extinction, and we are determined to fight this blight with every bit of strength, cunning and courage that we have.
You must do the same. And if you labor under unjust laws, you must do something to change them.
Profitsbeard
What Nick Griffin basically did, I think, was quote a few things from the Koran and aHadith, leading the jury to agree with him that Islam was indeed a "wicked, vicious faith". So they acquitted.
Easy peasy.
You've piqued my interest now though - I'm rather interested in a read of the transcript for myself.
Take care.
Dumbledore:
Right you are. A thought:
Science's problem, or our problem with science, is that we've divorced ethics and morals from it.
The use of science for abortion, euthanasia, genocide, suicide, etc... have all haunted us now and in Europe we see the end results.
We must continue to maintain Western Civilization as it was with its 2000 year Judeo Christian values. That is what made Europe great in the past.
Well, this is what passes for political leadership these days. Ignore the obvious, effective, simple solution (well sometimes you acknowledge it before quickly dismissing it out of hand as unconstitutional or reprehensible), and then claim the problem is intractable.
Islamic expansion could fairly quickly be checked if aggressive and no-holds barred military action abroad was combined with aggressive internal security operations on the home front, combined with economic sanctions against states pushing Islamic expansion, and limiting immigration from those states, coupled with a de-brainwashing campaign here and abroad that would use logic to debunk Islam as the load of violent BS it is.
But that would take leadership, unfortunately a commodity that seems to be sorely lacking in much our western political class (same goes for the leadership of the various christian denominations including catholic). I mean, how do you expect guys that can't even handle illegal Mexican landscapers and maids to take on muslim terrorists? As with muslim terrorism, there is a very simple CAPITALIST solution to the Mexican illegal problem that our political class bipartisanly ignores. Fine businesses that employ Mexican illegals to the point it becomes unprofitable for them to continue to do so. They will be forced to hire Americans, as they should have done in the first place. The Mexicans will leave to go look for a job somewhere where they will get hired - Mexico - which they should have done in the first place. No need to deport, just make sure businesses don't employ them and they will have to leave of their own accord.
So when did majority rule degenerate into rule of the stupid? My view is that this happened in sometimes the 60's when our educators decided to throw out a central concept around which all successful societies to date have been organized. Basically, a central part of your culture should be devoted to indoctrinating (though that is admittedly somewhat loaded term) citizens to where they are willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of others - as well as to encouraging character traits such as courage and temperance, the practicing of which by individuals brings huge benefits to the society as a whole. This can be packaged in various forms, Romans had it as stoicism/neoplatonism, the Chinese dynasties as Confucianism, but for the most part the traits in individuals that it encourages are the same.
The problem in the west began after the scientific revolution and the enlightenment. In seeking to replace Christianity with a new secular ideology, enlightenment threw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak. The different "packaging" (Confucianism, stoicism) of the cultural indoctrination in behaviors and traits such as self-sacrifice and courage often involves myths. The post-enlightenment development was to reject the Christian myths, and not only to not replace them with new myths, but to essentially reject the desirability of a part of a society’s culture being devoted to encouraging individual behaviors that benefit the society. And the scientific revolution also played a part in this, i.e. from the scientific perspective, the old “myths” are bunk, so therefore the behaviors/traits packaged in these myths are bunk as well. This is an aspect of the “death of God” phenomena, if God is “dead” (doesn’t exist) why try to be just?
But this is a huge mistake. Regardless of the falseness or truthfulness of the myths that package the personality traits/behaviors/that a society seeks to encourage, encouraging such personality traits places a society at a huge advantage against a society that doesn’t do this. For a long time after the start of the secularization movement, western societies soldiered on, largely on “fumes” so to speak, the last “packaging” of individual behaviors/traits (Christianity), was still pretty powerful even in secular societies, as were the behaviors and traits associated with it. But the secularists created no comparable replacement ideology that would be able to engender those beneficial and necessary traits and behaviors in individuals. In fact, the replacement ideology now being taught by liberal professors at US colleges does just the opposite: it equates cowardice with heroism, evil with good, - “who are we to judge if a behavior makes a person feel happy and they believe in it?”. In fact, this goes as far as to paint evil actions that put our society at risk as good. Deserters that abandon their fellow soldiers and run to Canada become heroic “antiwar activists”.
A society which successfully completely indoctrinates its’ citizens in this thinking will simply cease to exist. A society which places a dogmatic belief in moral equivalence between individual behaviors that benefit the society and those that place it at risk, in its’ political and educational institutions and uses it to display the traditional ideas of virtues from the public sphere is severely hamstrung and in danger. Which is why an extremely primitive society that holds even a seriously flawed and degenerate form of the traditional value system (such as Islam is) can confront a technological far more advanced society, without being immediately annihilated. Because the west is hamstrung by it’s leadership and it’s educational system which often criminally and perversely tries to indoctrinate it’s young people the equivalency of courage and cowardice, good and evil, which instead raising effective leaders for the future. Many individuals in the political class are good idealistic men, but are largely forced by the system to check their ideals in at the door of their office. In our US society, if you’re a political leader, how do you motivate men to make sacrifices? Well, you can’t appeal to their patriotism, that would be too bigoted and “intolerant”, and the media would immediately paint you as a bigot! You can’t appeal to ideals of good and evil, because again, that would make you intolerant ! You certainly can’t appeal to God , that mould make you a religious nut!
Well allright, so what do you do? Well apparently you stick your head in the sand like “Sir” Alan and pretend there is no war, and so England went from admirals like Nelson to “admirals” like this guy, who a few weeks after enemy combatants attack British civilians on British soil claims there is no war, and refuses to even pronounce the name of the ideology of the combatants. What good is a military officer if he is to afraid to even PRONOUNCE the name of the enemy so as not to piss that enemy of…. Of course, what they should do is the RIGHT thing, even at the expense of being marginalized like Churchill before the war, so the country has someone to reach out when the time of need inevitably comes……..
So we are plagued within and without.
Islam and the death of the West.
Islamo delenda est!
Is it just me or has British leadership fallen even lower that Tony Blair? This Brown talks in forked tongue: on one hand he wants to solve the problems created by Muslims but on the other hand he wants to lick their boots. I see no reason for this except his desire to secure a growing Muslim voting population. This dummy is devoid of any moral thought or any courageous
idealism. He simply wants to maintain his political personna and its benefits. He is decadent-devoid of purpose
How does Britain get rid of these clowns? I hear Tony Blair's seat is up for grabs. All my prayers go out to the BNP to capture that seat and that the courageous British citizens, like the French, put a monkeywrench into the machinery of Islamifying England.
"We are not getting our message across properly,"
No, it's coming across nicely. I assume that the message is that you are lot of floundering buffoons with no idea?
We could cut the 15 years down to less than a year if we simply nuked Tehran (political capital) & Qom (religious capital), Iran, along with Damascus, Syria.
In the long run, by doing so we would probably save more Western lives.
yes teh fight will take 15 years only because in 15 years time the british will have become a nation at peace with islam. the war will be lost within 2 elections unless the people wake up.
yes teh fight will take 15 years only because in 15 years time the british will have become a nation at peace with islam. the war will be lost within 2 elections unless the people wake up.
Same crap here in Oz:
Delusion, Incompetence and Unwillingness To Act:
'The federal Government’s anti-terrorist laws are limited defence against a specific and very real threat, says ASIO chief Paul O’Sullivan, striking back at Australia’s self-appointed liberty lobby…'
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/07/09/infiltration-hizb-ut-tahrir-cambridge-the-global-jihad/
And the Bishop of Cairns blames 'racism' and doesn't want another cartoon crisis:
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/img121.jpg
sheik yer'mami, Your stuff rocks. Your site is hot.
This is all so stupid! If it were'nt muslims causing problems it would be christians, jews or someone else. As humans I believe we do have inherant views on right and wrong that are universal! Not that they should be but that they are. Religion gets in the way of decency and common sense more than teaching it. As long as you have people you will never have peace. So I guess we will just have to deal with whatever.
Posted by: Barry Laden
Yea i suppose you might be right.It probably will be the christians next as it was they who put the freak show back in it's box back in the day.
Funny isn't it? When it comes to hitler people shout out he was a christian,he was elected.
Okay.
Can you hear me shouting back it was christians who kicked his ass.As for his election what does that have to do with anything.He lied or played his people.They at least had a choice you fool.Did they learn from a very costly mistake?I think so.
Now back to the subject at hand which is the scourage of the earth.The vile and filthy and disgusting stain upon humanity that is islam.
They can't even appear as if to look within for the problem of thier inhumanity.They have no intention of raising any meaningful voice agianst the unchangable.Thier silence on the matter says it all.
I like it how they say that even if a muslim woman gets a phd she will still be stupid and next to wothless.To them all she will ever be good for is punching around,sex and carpet bombing all societies with babies.Now who are the ignorant ones in that religion?
Or how about thier children huh? Taught from the womb to hate and to kill.Tell me where are christians and other religions that do this?Tell thier kids that thier only meaning in life is to die killing?
You sir are a moron and a loon.
You are right though this is all stupid.After six years nearly seven i think there has been plenty of time to decide what to do about this islam BS.In fact it has been longer than six to seven years it has been many decades.Thats whats really stupid.
The freak show needs to be put back in it's box and sunk in the deepest and darkest part of the ocean.
Your type of reasoning is rediculous."if it wasn't muslims it would be christians or jews or some other religion".I suppose your God science hasn't ever done a damn thing bad against humanity huh?
You are a freak show all to your own,a tool.
Also obviously we do not have a universal outlook on whats right and wrong.PAY ATTENTION!!
Barry Laden, You are deluded. It would not be Christians, Jews or anyone else causing the problems. It is the you know who ideology that fucks up the whole world and I believe you know that. C'mon, tell us why you think it would be anyone else.
Even if, against all probability, terrorism were to curbed in the foreseeable future, there would be no guarantee that the respite was not temporary. The furore over the Danish cartoons has shown how easily muslims can be stirred up.
Besides, as nasty as terrorism is, it is insignificant when compared with the main threat - the growth of muslim and other third-world minorities in the west through immigration and natural increase.
Burnside, you are absolutely on the money:
Its the demographics, stupid!
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/02/16/update-we-will-conquer-your-country-with-the-bellies-of-our-women/
This is all so stupid! If it were'nt muslims causing problems it would be christians, jews or someone else. As humans I believe we do have inherant views on right and wrong that are universal! Not that they should be but that they are. Religion gets in the way of decency and common sense more than teaching it. As long as you have people you will never have peace. So I guess we will just have to deal with whatever.
Posted by: Barry Laden at July 8, 2007 11:45 AM
It is better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and resolve all doubt. ~Abraham Lincoln
Let a fool hold his tongue and he will pass for a sage. ~Pubilius Syrus
If writers wrote as carelessly as some people talk, then adhasdh asdglaseuyt[bn[ pasdlgkhasdfasdf. ~Lemony Snicket
Well Lemony Snicket...they apprently do.
apparently not apprently
....cut the 15 years down beginning by banning Muslim Immigration...then ban the construction of new mosques...then state deporting all foreigners convicted of minor crimes....increase police activity in bad neighborhoods...arm the bobbies....increased surveillance and wiretapping of suspected terrorists....ban travel to Muslim countries...ban visa from Muslim countries...freeze all large transfer of funds until such time as the money can be checked out and its senders and receivers identified...ban protest marches larger that 100 people....ban face coverings in protest marches...ban hate banners and effigy burnings....
....time to become proactive....
Thanks for the link, sheikh. It certainly puts the terrorist threat into perspective.
JFGR - spot on.
What people don't realise is that terrorists do not mean us any harm, and are not using real bombs. Here is the evidence, from a BBC report.
"The suspects had claimed the bombs were fakes, and the attacks had been intended as a protest against the war in Iraq."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6284350.stm
Ignorance at the top in British politics is exceeded only by stupidity? May God save the British! May God save our Queen! Before it's too late.
I go away for 6 months, and you guys are still talking the same crap to each other. this site and the posters on it are marginalized. nobody's listening to you, because there is too much hate speech slipping through the decent discourse. there is no practical agenda...and meanwhile, the jihadists are winning the multimedia war hands down. You all seem to be content to complain to each other that the sky is falling without attempting to form an anti-jihadist coalition. here are some political goals which could be adopted that would help the anti-jihadist cause:
Use Banksy style graffiti to promote ideas
Vet all colleges in UK to make sure they're not offering degrees in Islamic studies using radical interpretations
Join with / form a group that intellectually confronts Jihadists at colleges and Mosques
Join with a group that can offer flash counter-demos to the abhorrent islamo-fascists demonstrations.
Join with group applying multimedia more in fight of ideas
Repeal the Human Rights act in UK and apply mass deportation of all convicted sympathizers of radical Islam (3 judge court as used against IRA)
Politically vet all Imams registered in EU
CCTV all Mosques in EU
Ban all forms of Wahibbism in UK
anyone got any decent ideas to confront jihad, or should I just come back in another 6 months?
Where have you been? You don't think there's anti Jihadist movements? What makes you think we're NOT participating with them and doing some of the things you list.
We CAN also come here and vent.
Quit being so smug!
To protectalbion - this site functions rather as certain kinds of radio broadcasts did in WWII. It exists to hearten the anti-jihadists, to inform and recruit new ones, and - in the case of Muslims who may lurk, and read, and sometimes post - to shake them up maybe just a little tiny bit by making it quite clear that not everybody in the West has been hypnotised by the spin-masters. And that some who HAD been hypnotised, or who were simply ignorant, are waking up.
Those who have been 'fired up' and informed will use their discretion and imagination as to what practical steps they may take next. Given that there are plenty of Muslim eavesdroppers present, going into too much detail about one's practical plans in public - here - is perhaps not a good idea anyway.
Again, as for the eavesdroppers, think about it: next time a mosque somewhere in London, or the USA, or Australia, holds an open day, if someone in their congregation has been lurking at 'jihadwatch' and eavesdropping on us kuffar, and gotten a tiny hint of the way we feel and think, then they have to wonder whether amongst those people strolling into their parlour, may be ...someone else who's been reading here, maybe someone who's been posting here, someone who does not hate Muslims as people but who does indeed absolutely and categorically reject the system of Islam and all its works. Someone who has probably been ringing up the local congressman or member of parliament, or writing him/ her informative letters. Someone who will stand up in Question Time, after the da'wa spiel, and ask those nasty questions they really don't want people to ask; questions demanding clear yes/ no answers, like, 'if your child converted to Christianity would you kill him/ her? Sharia law tells you that you must. Would you obey it?" Someone who looks at those pretty 'discover Islam' posters and sees exactly how many lies there are, per poster, and will share that interesting info. with the other guests.
Psy-ops, psy-ops. Make the Muslim eavesdroppers wonder just how fast that anti-jihad, no-sharia-here meme is proliferating from person to person across America, Canada, the UK, Australia, India, wherever. Spreading like a bushfire.
“JFGR - spot on.
Posted by: Un:dhimmi”
Thanks, Un:dhimmi – but just look at Atheling’s reaction! Doesn’t it make you want to puke? He just doesn't get it, does he?
No, you guys don't get it.
BTW, it's "she", not he.
Whatever, I don't care what you think or say. You can feel sorry for yourselves if you like.