Today as I sifted the news about the new jihad attacks and plots in Great Britain, I received this email, which seemed particularly piquant in its timing. I don't know why this "christian" sent me an email referring to "your friend robert spencer," but perhaps he is one of those geniuses who is sure that I am Hugh Fitzgerald, and that Hugh is Marlene Dietrich, and that we are both Mr. Yacub, cooking up untold evils on the island of Madagascar. Anyway, here is yet another example of two common jihadist deflection tactics: moral equivalence (tu quoque) and the casting of the "hate" accusation onto those who resist jihad terror, rather than the jihadists.
your friend robert spencer seems to be able to give examples of evils from the koran easily, so why doesnt he do the same with the bible,p.s. i am a practicing christian, so i do understand this
fucking hate mongers like you guys are just creatures from hell masquerading as god-fearing christians
In London and Glasgow, Islamic jihad terrorists were plotting to kill thousands of innocent people, and we're the hate mongers for reporting on their activities. This is the same shift of focus we have seen so many times. And as for the Bible/Qur'an equivalency, in case anyone is interested we have discussed it here, here, here, and here, among many other places. It also gets extended treatment in my forthcoming book, Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't, which will be published August 13 by Regnery Publishing. This book is a realistic appraisal of the teachings, histories, and contemporary status of Christianity and Islam, an examination of the jihad threat and the "Christian theocracy" threat as imagined by Chris Hedges and others, and a call to Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, secular Muslims, and everyone else who is a victim or potential victim of the global jihad and Islamic supremacism to unite together against this scourge.
If this e-mailer was a true Christian, he/she would not use the most foul language. I really do believe it is another Islamofacist.
"hate mongers ..... masquerading as god-fearing christians"?
Those who cannot justify their comments, always attempt to turn the attack around by made up prepositions against those they disagree with. This is one very confused individual, having great difficulty separating reality from religion and vice versa, and miss the whole point along the way, just like jihadist apologists do.
This site is not about christianity, nor does it promote or demote it. It is about jihad and those who commit it, and that "practising christian" should be very concerned about slaughtered christians around the world by jihadi muslims, if in fact this is a "practising christian", wouldn't you think?
This is just a liberal, they react like that.He or she just tries to use Christianity in order to create conflict, the left always do that.Just to compare religions, that's all. It is ok. We are used to it.
Just wanted to say, Robert, that I'm glad you dropped the "The" from the title of your next book, which seemed pretty self-serving. After all, Buddhism would appear to have a pretty good claim to being "the" or at least "a" religion of peace, too. In fact, the book should probably stack up Christianity, the Baha'i faith, Hinduism and even Sikhism against Islam -- any one of them would take the "peaceful religion" title over Mohammed's violent and supremacist following. While I believe Christianity is indeed "the" Religion of Peace it is not up to us to self-promote it as such. When we live out the example and teachings of Christ the world will stand up and give our faith this title. Until such time it is unadulterated vanity to claim it.
Meanwhile the screed of your latest critic appears to strive toward proving that at least some "christians" are prepared to use violent language to try to silence the voice of truth. As a christian myself I don't detect any suggestion of grace in this guy's rant. By what token does he claim to be a follower of the Prince of Peace?
'This book is a realistic appraisal of the teachings, histories, and contemporary status of Christianity and Islam...'
A thought experiment.
If Jesus lived his life in modern day USA. At one time he would hvae gone to jail for defacing a ATM machine in a christian comunity center.
If Buddha lived his life in modern day USA. He would have gotten afew tickets for loitering and pan handling.
If Muhammad Lived his life in modern day USA. He would have been the greatest criminal we have known. He would be up for Murder, insightment to commit murder, theft, receiving stolen goods, pedophilia, false imprisonment (taking slaves), rape, racketeering and many cases of breach of contract.
Now who do think is a good moral guid for a person in todays world.
I'm just worried that these terrorist acts will case Islamophobia. It's a religion of peace!
*wink*
Dear practicing christian goober,
You are correct in some respects. In the Bible it promotes castration, but this is just not done. Christians recognize that it was an ancient practice that has no modern day meaning, and it has fallen by the wayside, thank you very much. But what most people here are doing is making an example of this same sort of thing from the Koran. We in the west need them to abandon their awful teachings and enter the modern world, and they will do just that, kicking and screaming mind you, but change can be painful. As a Christian you can be part of that Muslim rebirth. Mention this site to your church, start a dialog with your family and friends, you may be surprised to find out how they feel.
So he read the bible and being a practicing Christian the message he received out of it was Judas’s? This guy is the most obvious rop-er I have ever seen. p.s. I am a practicing Christian, so I do understand this, how stupid do these islamists think we are? And if he has read the Bible and he knows the horrors commanded of us there in and he is a practicing Christian why is he surprised that we are hate mongering creatures from hell at some Christian masquerade party? They are just scared to death of Jesus and the Bible, that is all. As a matter of fact, they are so afraid of both that if you have the guts you could show up at their base, I mean mosque with the Bible and demand they let you in, and predictably when they stomp on your civil rights your freedom of religion, sue the crap out of them, then take a vacation to Hawaii courtesy of the islamists.
I think when the Christians, start blowing themselves up and killing INNOCENT civilians to illicit sympathy for their religion, I'll start bashing Christians too.....But when the Christians start taking out the Muslim trash that has such disdain for human life, I'll be routing for the Christians.
Muslim actions have spoken loud and clear, and I am sick of it....
Exposing the evil behind Islam is hardly hate-mongering -- it's called Telling The Truth.
Another Muslim dog masquerading as a Christian.
"Bad kuffur! Bad Infedeel! Bad Christian!"
Liars one and all.
To Hell with them.
"...and a call to Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, secular Muslims, and everyone else who is a victim or potential victim of the global jihad and Islamic supremacism to unite together against this scourge."
YES! This GRAND COALITION will defeat Islamic Supremacy once and for all. May it take root and flower into steely resolve.
Christianity evolved, Islam did'nt. Point blank.
He said friend, your our friend Robert! Then he points out you easily find all that is evil written in the quearan! That is not hard to do.. it says here kill kill!
I Love my God Jehweh! No matter my faults, I sure do not kill in his name. (But then who knows when the Crusuades will come back, heh?) Nor, Martyr in Christ name! Christ said, "Do not martyr in his name!"
Masquerade, that is all they do! They have no true character of who they are themselfs but hate! We do not have to pretend anything!
We have a free will.
They certainly know how to judge and are fast to!
"Sir ,sir - raises hand to the sky- can I be 'a creatures from hell masquerading as god-fearing christian' ? Please sir ! Sir! "
@ Ruebacca
Enjoy! Too long for me to paste it all.
http://www.islam-watch.org/All_About_Muhammad/If-Invented-Today-Would-Islam-Succeed-Survive.htm
If Invented Today, Would Islam Have a Chance?
MZ, time to take a chill pill.
Holding up a mirror so the God fearing masquerader from hell hatemonger can watch himself spontaneously combust.
Also a hardy HAR HAR in his bright red face.
Islam sucks and it can NEVER compare to any other religion....never!
We (well some) give this putrid hate cult far too much credit for a damn thing.It has earned nothing and it offers less than nothing.
p.s. i am a practicing christian, so i do understand this
fucking hate mongers like you guys are just creatures from hell masquerading as god-fearing christians
You are a "practicing Christian?"
Really? Why do I have my doubts?
Dear Gramfan
Thank you. It was a good read. This footnote is better articulation of what I wrote:
3) Muhammad was personally guilty of murder, including by crucifixion and beheadings, rape, torture, abductions, extortion, slavery, theft, mutilations, adultery, abuse of women, physically and sexually, and at least one case of sexual abuse of a child. This is all well documented history!
Christianity didn't evolve. Christians did. Christianity has not changed in its teachings since Christ. It has taken a LONG time for it to take effect within entire societies so that its laws and mores reflect the teachings, and even then its execution is always flawed.
Reading through Robert's postings, cited here, on comparisons of violence in religious texts I came across this answer given to a "biblical scholar" making the equivalence argument by citing four "violent" biblical texts:
I like the ironic response, but I would have liked to see a proper answer, because I find that this verse is most often used by muslim apologists in making a Tu Quoque argument against Christianity. Indeed, it appears to be regarded by them as the definitive "violent" verse in the New Testament -- a clear sign of their ignorance; if I wanted to make such a case, weak as it would ultimately have to be, I could find a dozen better passages.
I rarely find anyone answering this challenge effectively, except by pointing out (as Robert does) that historically Christians have generally not used this passage as a divine sanceion for religious violence.
But the correct answer comes from the text itself. Read the entire 10th Chapter of Matthew. Put the verse into context. It is not, as some appear to believe, a particularly "troublesome" or "difficult" verse -- it's meaning is quite clear in context.
For anyone who's interested, I'll not make the case in depth, I'll just say READ THE ENTIRE PASSAGE, and then answer this: Is Jesus referring to violence BY christians, against non-christians, or to violence AGAINST christians, by non-christians? The answer is obvious, clear from the text and incontrovertible.
In fact, the passage is not so much imperative as prophetic: Jesus is predicting what the response of those we know, including friends and family, will be when some of us become Christians. As a prophecy, it's pretty well a no-brainer. Of course those who change from their family's or society's creeds to Christianity will be regarded as odd, as suspicious, and with hatred; this is simply human nature. They will be subject, in extreme societies that guard their creeds jealously, with violence. In Islam, this response is quite common, and comes directly from their Prophet's command: "If someone changes their (Islamic) religion, kill them!"
If someone asks "Is mohammed referred to in the bible" I would say "Yes", and cite this passage. For the prophecy of Jesus in Matt. 10: 34-36 is fulfilled most clearly in the teachings and actions of Mohammed: they will persecute christians to death, merely for becoming christians.
I hope, Robert, you have made this case in your book; as Muslims seem obsessed with this particular passage it would be helpful to have the correct interpretation spelled out to prove how vacuous this particular tu quoque argument turns out to be.
"fucking hate mongers like you guys are just creatures from hell masquerading as god-fearing christians"
If you're a practicing Christian, you should be aware of the phrase "beware of false prophets."
If you're a practicing Christian, you should know that the wars being started in countries all over the world are not being started by anyone but the Mohammedans.
Me thinks thou art a Muslim. That, or a ding-a-ling who just doesn't get it, and thinks everyone in the world is one day just going to give each other a great big hug. Clueless.
If someone asks "Is mohammed referred to in the bible" I would say "Yes", and cite this passage. For the prophecy of Jesus in Matt. 10: 34-36 is fulfilled most clearly in the teachings and actions of Mohammed: they will persecute christians to death, merely for becoming christians
Actually, I would have thought about the false prophets in the desert passage, where Jesus instructs his followers not to believe them, "for many will come in my name and say, 'behold,' his is there." Doctrines of devils he called them.
Then Jesus says that he would not "physically" set foot upon the earth until the judgment day -- of course he could, I suppose, appear in dreams or in other "spiritual" manifestations (I doubt appearances in taco shells and such -- but who knows).
Jesus is predicting what the response of those we know, including friends and family, will be when some of us become Christians
Agree with your reasoning on this one.
There are NO equivalent statements between the quaran and the Bible; the dieties involved have contradictory messages and purposes; any "similarities" are merely apparent and not of any significant substance.
Hehe, practicing Christians don't use the F word. Backslidden Christians, sure.. but practicing? Uh, nope.
your friend robert spencer seems to be able to give examples of evils from the koran easily, so why doesnt he do the same with the bible,
p.s. i am a practicing christian, so i do understand this
fucking hate mongers like you guys are just creatures from hell masquerading as god-fearing christians
You are no Christian. I don't know what you are, but you no Christian. You might be a Muslim? Learn to capitalize and use period's...Muslim.
"i am a practicing christian"....
So you admit that you're irrational and superstitious. That's great!
I'm an Atheist, no fear of any god, no masquerade, no day-release from hell to antagonize weak willed 'believers'.
One day all religion will go the way of the dinosaur. The sooner the better.
abu-lahab:
On one hand I agree with you. I will take straight Faith in God over religion any day.
On the other hand, I will take straight Faith in God over your empty existence, any day.
Eh, nariz?
---
Oh! Good place for this (no offense to decent atheists):
'What happened to the atheist who was elevated to god-hood?'
'He disbelieved in himself and ceased to exist!'
"practicing christian" demanding talk on "evils" of the Bible, especially in that context given, which shows clear and unmistakable hostility to said Bible?
Something is VERY amiss about said "practicing christian".
How many ways are there to spell F-R-A-U-D???
This impostor wasn't even close...
Gary -
Thanks for your input but believe it or not, atheists do not have an "empty existence".
As an atheist myself, I have a very full, and fulfilling, life. As for the afterlife.....well, I doubt that there is one, but if there is, I don't believe it has anything to do with religion.
ImNoDhimmi~ You'll notice in the latter half of my post, I used the words 'decent atheists.'
That would be people like you.
I also mentioned I can do quite well with Faith, thank you, and no need for Religion, which is mostly Human-reasoned.
As with all groups, there are several types: in the case abu-Lahab, we apparently have one who is full of hatred and fear towards Believing people. That strikes me as someone being fairly Empty. If he was self-assured like yourself he wouldn't feel the need to say the things he had.
You do Not appear to fall into that category.
I have no idea of your statements mustang! Chill pill? I need one! Still what are you saying?
Christianity evolved? Like monkies and apes?
Like Islam has always been there since the time of darkness or time of ignorance? There is no ignorance in the Bible or Christianity! Only how some may use it or interpret it. Islam point blank! Shot to the head! Peasce islam! What is your message mustang one? love, hate, Robert not your friend? He is all our friends!
I made a point the dumn f'r had ONE thing right! Do you know what your not talking about? Or do you think we don't? .........
This writes more like a Muslim to me
God doesn't believe in atheists :)
Besides, atheists really do believe in God: Themselves.
He's a Muslim all right. And it would not be a sin for him to tell us otherwise.
Somebody needs to tell him that since he's been on the computer for over ten minutes now, it's past time for him to go out and kill another poor schmuck in the name of al-lah.
Something tells me he's into beheadings. Let's hope he doesn't get punchdrunk while gorging himself on the blood coming out of his sacrificial victim (blood-drunkenness can cause nasty diarrhea).
The guy must be a liberal or a leftist teenager. Doesn't sound like a Muslim to me. I would argue that the lack of capitalization in the message indicates a non-native English speaker or a liberal teenager.
"Hate" is very often used by liberals to silence free speech. Muslims can use it too, but I'm going with what I think are the better odds.