And now, a word from Tokyo Rose

We'll see how long Turkey remains one big happy muslim family.

But let's hurry up and admit Turkey in to the EU *sarcasm off*

unlike christians Muslims love their faith and will never turn on it like you christians turn on christianity and become secular atheists

I do agree with that. Thats one of the main problems, the West did turn its back on Christianity and Islam filled the vacuum. Given the violent nature of Islam, the West is afraid to offend it, unlike it does everyday with Christianity.

We will have to wait and see how the Turks take to Islam once it starts setting its agenda.

Christianity was willing to face its critics and has come out the other side. Christianity was willing to evolve with a new political system which solved problems of inter-Christian warfare. Christianity was willing to engage in rational dialogue with its enemies and co-religionists. Islam will not, because Islam is a lie.

In time, secularism will understand that Christianity is its friend whereas Islam is the real enemy of freedom of thought and religion.

Christianity is growing rapidly in China in the wake of the failure of communism. The Chinese have never held any taste for Islam because they recognize that it is really just Arabic ideals made into a god called Allah. Christianity started as a middle eastern religion then was dominated by Europe and now is moving into its great Sino-Christian age with great contributions from the oldest great culture on the planet: the Chinese.

In time Islam will die, not because it lacks passion, but rather because it is not the truth. Once the West stops supporting inferior Islamic cultures with its aid and oil money, they will whither and die. Perhaps not go away completely, but Islam will become something of an historical anachronism like Zoroastrianism. It will take several hundred years, but I am confident that Islam will become what it is: nothing.

As for me and my family, we serve Jesus Christ, the crucified Lord of all humanity.

"No matter what, I am not going to submit."

Same here. I reject Islam and it's lying, murdering, thieving, pedophile False Prophet (May His Millions of Victims Find Peace) and his bloodthirsty, murdering false god allah. I prefer my compasionate, forgiving and rational God. No matter what happens, I won't submit to Islam, Mohammed's curse upon humanity.

DEFEAT JIHAD!

I must say Robert....What you said to end that post gave me goosebumps...I will stand right beside you and never submit.

Matt

Robert,

You will never be alone. We at jihadwatch will be with you every step of the way.

NEVER SUBMIT!

Robert,

You will never be alone. We at jihadwatch will be with you every step of the way.

NEVER SUBMIT!

I say good, let Turkey slide. Then one day we can liberate Constantinople and Anatolia. They're sure to give us a reason to, after all, pious Muslims never let us down.

After all, what would Dirty Harry do?

You must be embarrassing them Robert, showing people the dirty secret they have been hding from western civilisation.

I'm sorry guys but I need to address this. And I may need to make a comment after I get a chance to read Mr. Spencer's new book as well.

But I just have to completely disagree with the statement that a "Lack of Judeo-Christian Pride" is what is helping Islam slip in so easily.

I am a secular atheist, and I completely understand the implications of Islam towards Western ideals and I will have none of it. I'm not afraid to say Islam is the problem. And when more minor things arise that are problematic because of Christianity I will stand up then too.

This is not a war or religions. This is a war of Civilization vs Barbarism. And the barbarism is the end result of Islam today.

So don't give me this crap about how, us secular atheists won't stand up for our country. I am very proud to be here and what our founding fathers did to get us here...minus slavery.

But this is not a Christian government. It may be a nation of mostly Christians but our constitution is distinctly secular, deriving ideas about government developed from the Greeks and expanded upon by non-Christians like Thomas Paine as well as Christians.

In any case, we stand united in the face of Islam.

That Muslim response is akin to one expressing glee of contracting tuberculosis. All I can say is , enjoy.

Never submit Robert. We stand here right with you.

v4ri4bl3,

Its not all secular athiests that helped pave the way for Islam. But when you look at Europe and who did it, it was the secular athiests who did it. Not all of them, but the ones who did were secular athiests. I am not religious myself but recognize who and how our country was founded. I respect the judeo/christian heritage but also know that it doesnt want to enslave me, Islam does.

Elric66,

If the secular atheists did it its just because most of Europe is now secular atheist and there was no one else to lol. My point is that it is not a lack of Christian pride that makes people not understand the threat of Islam. It is not understanding Islam that is the problem.

People tend to read into propaganda. When they get the facts however most of them fall in line with the rest of us on this subject I think.

v4ri4bl3,

I think thats a problem with everyone. To really get to the root of what happened with Europe read Bat Ye'or's "Eurabia"

v4ri4bl3

Getting the "facts" to the "People" is the problem. I think you stand lonely in a crowd of many.

@v4ri4bl3

Not to change the thread too much. The problem I see and I don't think you are one of them. Many of those who fall into the camp of secular atheist muddle the religion question by shifting the argument from Islam to Christianity. Equating both as bad. Simplistic as it may seem that is like saying having a cold and long cancer are just as bad and both should be put away.

I am for demounting Islam from its religious status. That is the challenge today. Because many think of Islam as a religion then they are reluctant to believe that they are the enemy. The enemy is using this to their advantage.

I am a Christian. If we take the premise that everything that is good and virtuous is equal to God then Allah and Islam is just the opposite of that. I am appealing to your atheistic logic not trying to argue or convince you of anything theological.

Even if a person is irreligious, it is important to undertand religions, which are responsible for human motivation and deeply affect history.

Many people feel all religions are the same: bad. They don't understand the Torah, the Gospels and thus history. If they did, their sense of reason would intercede to show them that Islam is not only illogical, but improbable. And it's violent, merciless, and offensive to everyone it touches.

Islam is a trojan horse. Americans who equate all religions as deserving of equal respect are making a big mistake in letting this cult poison our culture, court system, schools-- putting an end to the life in this country that we once cherished.

The hoax "religion" Islam is the enemy.

Case closed.

"turks have shown they want Islam and love Islam contrary to what you claimed and thought...."

This sounds like boasting. I'd be embarassed to admit a that whole population could be that stupid.

"unlike christians Muslims love their faith ..."

Yeah, everyone loves Islam -- under pain of death.

v4ri4bl3: "When they get the facts however most of them fall in line with the rest of us on this subject I think."

I think people are hungry for the facts. I often take one of Robert's books out in public with me. Many times, people will see me reading the book, and with a tentative air, ask me about it. I answer them. Politely, rationally, objectively. I tell them about the law of abrogation, the institutionalized inequality of sharia, Aisha, and more. I take all the time they need. People are hungry to know. I know I only touch one person at a time, but it is my hope that they, in turn, will tell others, and then they others. Thank you, Robert, for your dedication.

I will never submit.

NO SURRENDER to the slime of humanity.

If islam takes over we won't have to worry about math since Mohammad couldn't add. Oh, allah couldn't add.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/i001.html

I will NEVER submit either. Thank you for your courage and vital work.

Robert -

thank you for your example of patient, logical truth-telling. God bless you for your courage. You come across, also, in your writing and postings, as unfailingly gentlemanly and charitable in the best sense - 'speaking the truth in love' (Ephesians 4: 15).

As one who is often tempted to intemperate and, indeed, uncharitable speech - and I herewith apologise to any at this site who may have suffered from that! - I am humbled every time I re-read your books. I have SO much to learn about how to participate effectively in this spiritual battle for the West, indeed, for humanity.

Aside to others: in Bat Ye'or's article 'Testimony Versus Silence', in Robert's anthology "The Myth of Islamic Tolerance" she speaks very powerfully of the risks run by people such as Robert - or herself:

"The meaning of testimony is to stand up against a tyrant, to denounce injustice and to proclaim the dignity of all humanity. Although the testifier gives testimony because he has to do so, and cannot escape from this duty, his act implies an inherently optimistic hope and faith in man - the hope that the heart of the tyrant will change. With the words in the Psalm: " I will speak of thy testimonies before kings, and will not be ashamed"....

"But testifying is no easy task, as it also brings persecution, loneliness, and despair. Challenging evil, unveiling it from behind its ubiquitous masks, is dangerous, an unending life struggle" (p. 258).

Therefore, let all of us here who are Christian (e.g. Isabella, Provoslavni, elias, Josephine and others) pray diligently for Robert - and for his friends and family, his spiritual adviser or spiritual director, and for his parish church in Secure Undisclosed Locationsville.

And I do hope Robert has at least a few days each month marked off for R & R.

I will not be ruled by sharia, nor will any US Citizen as long as I live.

Lan Astaslem.

Pretty soon Islamic Turkey will be running the EU (if it's not already), I am sure of it.

"christians turn on christianity and become secular atheists."

I would say Islam outnumbers us greatly in turning out atheists. At least it puts or keeps them on a level where they are bearable to civilization.

"it" being when they turn into athiests

Never forget Spencer,

today's Turkey is tomorrow's

Iran.

and just like Iran, they too will one day choke on their decision to support the political Islamists and they will demand their removal, the tragic thing will be is to watch the thousands marching in the streets and watching those political theocratic Tyrannists and Despots round them up, rape the women and subdue the men with daily violence. For this Muslim to brag shows once again, their very Ignorance and Shallowness and total lack of human empathy. Victory for them is the joy of watching misery to millions,

there is only one that I have read that enjoys so much in watching the misery of millions

his name

Satan.

What Islam has done for me? Made me realize that yes there is an Anti-Christ, that yes there is a Satan, that yes there is Evil,

and that any ideology based in hate, violence and fear,
like the Word of God says, is from the very pits of Hell. "God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love, peace, and a sound mind." Timothy [Bible]

I too stand with you Spencer, a radical feminist leftist INDEPENDENT who only has this to say, thank you Islam, for showing me that Jesus, really Is the way. The belief in free will, freedom of choice, and grace and Mercy--not just in claim only--but in action.

the claim that Allah the Merciful, has been cheapened--it means NOTHING--thanks to the millions of raping enslaving cruel evil followers of a belief system that is so contrary to normal common sense, as well as contrary to any of the principles of democracy and human DECENCY.

I will also, never submit, to the barbarics and woman haters and child rapists, Never.

TOKYO ROSE???????

Robert:
Since WHEN did you start getting mail from rosie o'donnel????
(/sarc)

“there is only one that I have read that enjoys so much in watching the misery of millions

his name

Satan.

What Islam has done for me? Made me realize that yes there is an Anti-Christ, that yes there is a Satan, that yes there is Evil.” by: Natasha

That's pretty much it.

No matter what, I am not going to submit.

The man to rally around. One of the few real leaders of the Western world.

Oh well said, Robert

"The demise of Turkish secularism, which in any case was only marginally less monstrous than Sharia in its treatment of non-Muslims, was inevitable, given the nature of political Islam."

No EEC membership for Turkey.

What on earth is the US doing backing Turkey to be allowed into Europe?

God surely does work in mysterious ways.What this nimrod just wrote,in an attempt to gloat, was more proof that islam is not compatible with that of the western beliefs and ideals.

He is happy to announce that soon Islam will have overthrown the "democratic" government.

I just hope all those appeasers and coddlers can find it within themselves to one day to come to the same conclusion.

I too will never submit,never.That should make some pious muslims day.

I liked your above posts MZ

" face it robert, your losing this battle and war, unlike christians Muslims love their faith and will never turn on it like you christians turn on christianity and become secular atheists."

Robert, Mr. Spencer, is a teacher, a true leader when it is needed, in another dark era of time. His "followers" understand better because of him, and from reading every post above, the mix of people who come to learn and be informed about islam, what is going on, is remarkable. Te posts speak to what has been learned. I thank Robert, Mr. Spencer or all that he has done to inform and wake the world.

The Secular atheists are a great part in the coming battles. Along with the Christians , both will work together and become a great force, we are stronger because of what and how we think, islam has as yet to understand this.

But it will learn.

I will not submit to the enemy, islam.

Thanks for your bravery Robert.
I will stand beside you in NON- submission to the evil that is festering in this world,............. that is all islam is and can ever be.

there are a few things, or rather a few scriptures that I often recalled these past couple of years when I was in working in the left, and that had a LOT to do with why I could no longer remain compliant with so much of the relativism,

one being, in Jeremiah, now I don't have the numbers of text memorized but it went something like this,

that in the end days the 'believers And the resisters' would oppose the rule, which refers to the anti-christ or system, that beast,

and I take it symbolically to represent the system be it economic, political, social, etc. But anyway that scripture always Stuck in my mind and today it is true, you see both believers in God and agnostics/atheists/anarchists, etc., opposing the system, the world system of relativism, economic rule/elitism, globalization, and so forth. You especially can see a coming together of people to oppose theocratic absolutism, i.e. Islam.

there is another too, that always I would recall when hearing or reading about Islam and its something Jesus said about prayer, something about the hypocrisy of those who pray loudly and clang cymbals, etc in public, the repeating chants and prayers that fall 'on dead ears' is what he said, because they were simply just that--

dead man's bones rituals, not of faith, not of sincerity, not of love,

just tradition and public meaningless display. For some reason I always thought of that and that whole praying five times a day and the whole public ritual involved,

but the ground shaker was something I saw in a history documentary. Now I've read Revelations and know about the debates of the rapturists, etc etc...and the theories but something that struck me cold,

was in the documentary, that was about whether revelations had happened and was about the fall of Rome or if it was going to happen, but it said, a scripture about the Anti-Christ seated in Jerusalem, then the anti-revelationists stated that this couldn't be so because the big Mosque was there--

my blood went cold literally and then it dawned on me, what if the Anti-Christ isn't a person so much as a belief, a system, that opposes everything about Christ...does it not say the Anti-Christ will kill the saints, will wage war on God, will profess to be God, will portray itself to be the Messiah but will then turn against the Jews, the Christians and against all those who don't submit and take the mark of the beast?

[paraphrasing here, not word for word] Now--add THAT to the world order of economics, the free trade agreements, the complying and bending over backwards to build some one world system that is under one way, etc.,

and even if you are agnostic or aethesist, not attempting to preach here or convert or anything like that--simply for discussion, but I did find these relevancies and links, even if just symbolic, to be extremely concerning...but hopeful too,

because If its all true--the beast, the Anti-Christ, is to be crushed by the feet of Jesus, and put away for eternity. I remembered hearing this alot in church [when I was really into the whole religion thing] and it went like this,

in the end days Satan will be unleashed and you will know it because good will be persecuted and called evil, and evil will be deemed as good, etc etc,

but as the Holy Spirit takes leave and evil takes the place in the world--you know the end is near because Satan attacks humanity when and because he knows his time is up.

Now, even in paganism, there is the belief of the justice fleeing the earth, in the age of Iron, of war, etc. So taking this symbolically now,

because you could apply this to Karma or to even secularism, even to the laws of physics--when such evil is that widespread it can't hold power long--it may seem that it can but eventually, it will be vanquished, because good will rise up.

I don't know but this whole comment about Turkey from this Muslim hater made me think of all this--the more they spread and do evil,the more they are exposed,

but not only that--its exposing what truly is in many people. Maybe this is the separation of the wheat and chaff????

and maybe this is why Jesus often said, to those who have ears let them hear...

this is most definately a Spiritual warfare, not just a physical one. And not just spiritual but I also think its testing the political grounds too--its making people think,

what is freedom really and is freedom something to be bartered? Have we become so accustomed to enslavement on other levels or areas in our lives that we do not see enslavement when it knocks on the door?

And I think thats the heart of the issue on many points, we've become so accustomed to rules and regulations that aren't so much about freedom as they are about fitting in, those social mores to keep society confined to a unified purpose and that is why we are seeing, take Europe for example and this whole issue with the EU--working to confine all people into one system,

and if it means sacrificing women so be it, or sacrificing those who reject the progress that totalitarianism professes, so be it [Hannah Arendt on Origins of Totalitarianism]--thats what we are seeing,

and its increasing rapidly. But the fact is, and someone mentioned it here, this doesn't just apply to the leaving of Christian values--what people deem as Christianity today, is more often than not just a type of legalism, dead man's bones religion of sorts, in other words, the 'faith' has been replaced by ritual and ideology,

the love replaced by norms and mores, etc. Especially materialism, materialism brings about its own death, maybe this is why God often said in the OT that worshiping rocks and sticks brought about spiritual death--I believe it was not just a matter of 'idols' but of replacing values, values such as friendship, respect, love of humans with love of 'things',

which leaves the door open to the beasts who promise prosperity but with a price--slavery.

I think we truly are like sheep--easily led astray. I refer to symbolism because whether one believes or not, there are many references to 'wisdom' that I believe are relevant to the issues of despotic theocracy taking over the world today, e.g. Islam or political Islam, but actually Islam is political--thats the bottom line,

the basis of Islam was political, it was a political movement from the beginning, a military movement, and a conquering movement. It was never a movement of faith--but of conquest and military and nationalist power --that is HISTORICAL FACT. It is not a religion--that I believe is the biggest lie there is. A religion is about a faith in a being--a spiritual faith,

not about a movement hell bent on enslavement by any means necessary or a movement hell bent on control of every aspect of life. The difference between Christianity and Judaism is that yes in some aspects you have the fundamentalists that yes would be more than happy to have that political control but the faith and beliefs are NOT about a political movement or conquest--

whereas Islam is. Of all the religions, Islam stands out as a Political and Military Conquest movement that uses enslavement of women/girls to produce Armies to conquer--a movement that is hell bent on fuedalism and monarchy to maintain despotic power over the masses, and a movement that is hell bent on ridding the world of any who are not in compliance or willing to sell their souls to them and their prophet.

That isn't a religion--that is a fascist dictatorship of a belief system--a belief system that is the Beast as far as I'm concerned,

it controls what you purchase and how
it controls and kills life--esp women
it controls and dictates what you will think, believe and say
it controls what you hear, see, and feel
it professes good to be evil and evil to be good, i.e. raping girls as a good thing--not having any empathy whatsoever to the pain they cause
it controls who you worship or kills you for not worshiping what They say you should [that includes killing pagans and agnostics and aetheists]

there is Nothing remotely about faith--its based on instilling fear and terror and misery and want,

especially poverty--to those who think Islam is compatiable with communism, its not, its feudalistic to the core, why in Every Islamic country where there is mass wealth that wealth is concentrated in the hands of monarchs and elites and slavery flourishes and poverty knows no limits,

if there ever was a Beast--Islam is it.

and I'm not religious--just using logic and comparison, if the Bible is true, then we have seen the Anti-Christ,

and it is seated in Jerusalem. [and no its not the Jews]

I am a Turkish citizen and I don't see how "the turks have shown they want Islam".

No, ladies & gents. I do not want to be ruled by Islam. I want to be and am ruled under a democratic and secular republic. I will never accept rule of Sharia or anything remotely un-secular under any circumstance. So I might be considered standing by Robert in this aspect.

I am almost tired of telling this but please, I beg of you, make your governors stop Turkey's accession process into EU. If you accomplish that today, and give us a clean cut answer, i.e. "NO", secularism will have a chance only then.

The so-called democrat AKP, which has ruled Turkey for 4,5 years is re-elected because they were seen the hope of Turkey, since they were abiding by the EU accession process. The rich and power holding people in Turkey, so dumbly, voted for AKP even though they knew their lifestyles were at stakes in the mere hope that the economical stability will continue. (The subprime mortgage crisis was almost going to tangle this government down but unfortunately, it didn't).

Well, I would certainly like the benefits of EU, e.g. PhD scholarships or research fellowships, but not in the price of Sharia rule.

So please make your governments aware. They aren't helping Turkey getting more democratical*. There is no such thing as mild-Islamic government. There is only "secular government" or "sharia government". Anything in between is just a phase from the former to the latter.

* Remember that the prime minister recently excommunicated on of our fellow citizens, a newspaper columnist, for writing "Abdullah Gul will not be my president".

Natasha, wonderful sister in Christ, well said!

comkedi, you and the rest of the world have more than Sharia to worry about in regard to Turkey, like militarization and imperialistic ambitions. With an Islamist government, it cannot meet the conditions of the EU. It is a double-edged sword.

With all due respect, Europe already has too many proud to be Islamic Turks defacing it with Islam. From our immigrant Turkish communities here, we see that the Turks are a long way from distancing themselves from Islam. I question if they are much different than Muslims from any other Islamic country, except they have less political grievances with people of other countries.

Yo Tokyo,

"face it robert, your losing this battle and war, unlike christians Muslims love their faith and will never turn on it like you christians turn on christianity and become secular atheists."

If this is true, do you really think it works to your advantage in the long run? If so, perhaps you should review the results of secular wars in the 20th century. Come to think of it, didn't Islamists bet on the wrong horse back then too? Hmm.

Don't mistake the United States for Western Europe. But even in Europe, I've got a feeling that there's a big "UH-OH" in store for those who want it to be ruled by Sharia. You know those crazy Europeans. They've got a history of being excitable… and systematic when they get excited.

This is not a cold war standoff. The structure of Islamic societies renders them unable to compete economically, technologically, or militarily with western democracies. So you're basically counting on us crumbling from within. Not likely. I don't know any "secular atheists" jumping at the chance to live under Sharia (or embrace the Islamic faith, for that matter). Maybe you think Islamists will mount an armed insurrection and take the U.S. Well, that option isn't looking too good either:

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/files/sas/publications/year_b_pdf/2007/2007SAS_English_press_kit/2007SASCh2_summary_en.pdf

Unless, of course, you think these are all owned by pacifists.

By the way, as a secular atheist, these words ring truer to me than ever:

"The essential principles of our Government... form the bright constellation which has gone before us and guided our steps through an age of revolution and reformation. The wisdom of our sages and blood of our heroes have been devoted to their attainment. They should be the creed of our political faith, the text of civic instruction, the touchstone by which to try the services of those we trust; and should we wander from them in moments of error or of alarm, let us hasten to retrace our steps and to regain the road which alone leads to peace, liberty and safety." -- Thomas Jefferson's 1st Inaugural Address, 1801.
Robert Spencer has been instrumental in reminding all of us, religious and not so religious, of the great history of Western Civilization, warts and all… and our responsibility to defend it.

No Tokyo, I think you should "face it". Islamists are starting something they're ill equipped to finish… and you should be encouraging reform in the Islamic community, not herding them toward a cliff.

Think about it.

The rich and power holding people in Turkey, so dumbly, voted for AKP even though they knew their lifestyles were at stakes in the mere hope that the economical stability will continue. (The subprime mortgage crisis was almost going to tangle this government down but unfortunately, it didn't).
posted by comkedi

As an economist I have strong reasons to believe that AKP's so-called political/economic success is closely linked with the detrimental effects of the economic crises in the past. People still recall-with horror-the infamous 2001 financial crash and its lingering damage on the rest of economy. It is not solely an issue of islamists' exploitation of religious tendencies. The good news is that the turkish economy is still vulnerable and the exposure of the financial system is still high. BTW, the mortgage crisis hasn't dissipated at all. On the contrary, it is only beginning and let us hope it will hit Turkey as strongly as it takes. If the double-dealing US and EU administrations with full of morons are unable to predict the consequences of favoring a so-called "mild islamist" rule in Turkey, let the global economic turmoil handle what they are supposed to handle on their behalf.

Assalamau Laikum all,

Soooo....it looks like you have been contacted by a muslim...and those oh so gloating remarks.

My agenda is different....I don't want you to listen to lunds like him....I want you to listen to me.

Mine is a strategy for global glue, peace and happiness...picking the best of both cultures.

While Turkey may go the way of Islam...I am extremely concerned for your safety & political welfare over the up & coming decades.

The thing is that ...like it or not ...you have an important part to play...although you have peoples like Mr Spencer and Proud Infedel being virtual heroes ...frankly I am already looking at the generation beyond yours.

For they are the ones who will be:
1) Dwindling in numbers, as the Kaffur birthrate of newly born collapses.

2) Seeing an increasing number of wuslims in their midst...taking part in every aspect of Amerike life...be it technology, service industry, armed forces and the "Allah driven" Industries.

3) Like it has happened in the UK....many many churches will be (legally) brought and converted to mosques. This is as a result of less christians and decreasing levels of faith. I mean what will be the point of having a large building...with a makeshift vicar and a 5 strong congregation...better to make it a muslim building than a disused building...with nothing coming in to the local councils.

4) Mall shops will become more Islamic...classics are Islamic bookshop, Jilbab clothes shops, Islamic tailor shops, Fresh Halal butchered meat, and icons such as copper trays, and K'aabah carpet mats, islamic compasses and prayer CDs.

5) Increasing proliferation of Islamic banking with zero interest mortgages ...available for all.

In this increasingly changing environment, your childrens/grandchildrens...will turn to Islam and become wuslims. This has happened in Egypt, Lebonan, India, ...the same will happen in the Amerike....I am willing to put my small Islamic mortgage on it.

LOOk...I'm sure that there were many Mr. Spencers' and Proud Infedels in Egypt, India when they were recieving the light of Islam ...but their offspring are now proud muslims.

What I am asking for is that slight change....not muslim...but wuslims...you know it makes sense.

Being stiff necked, and a descendant and apes and pigs, I think maybe I can't submit anyway, but just in case....

SEE YOU IN HELL all you salafi and Khomeinist freaks ..

Have a nice day

Naseem ... before that comes to pass, there will be a big dance.

So sorry, but that should be quite clear.

I'm afraid that your more jihadi, but no less gloating compadres, will NEVER be able to restrain themselves.

You see the real problem is that IT is immutable.
This requires that believers be at once, ready to execute all provisions of what is at once, imperialist, and racist, but yet maintain that it is the revealed word of god. (small g for that)

Now I'm not saying that, just conveying to you my OBSERVATION of what these gintsu wielding salafi and khomeinist morons, who DO REPRESENT the ascendant and so far unrejected for of Islam are saying AND DOING(as the Thai's, among others, can tell you)

These guys cannot restrain themselves, and don't want to.

So there WILL be a dance.

Bet the mortgage on that and you will be far safer.

Just some advice from a friend

Hey folks,

I've been a reader of JW for a long time now, even have one of the bumper stickers (fight jihad);)

Anyway, I just wanted to comment on a trend that seems to be happening on this site and others concerning Christianity.

Please note, I am NOT a historian, I do not have a degree in Ancient History, but I am an avid researcher of the past. There may be some details here that are not 100% correct (such as names, etc), so please bear with me. However, I am confident in my knowledge of this area of the past, otherwise I wouldn't dare post these comments in such a well respect forum such as this one.

There have been many comments made concerning Christianity being changed, "converted", into it's peaceful form of today. I'd like to share some prospective on this if I may.

Also, please note, it is not my intention to bring offense to anyone. I just want to share the truth a little bit, and go over a brief history of the religion.

Christianity has always been a religion of love, charity, respect and service to God and our fellow man.

From the mouth of Jesus:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Christianity is exemplified in the life of Christ and his Apostles and Disciples.

Christ, God incarnate, allowed himself to be mocked, beaten, scourged, spit upon, and ultimately crucified.

Every one of His apostles except for one, John the divine, were martyrs for the faith. John was actually exiled to an island (Patmos) for the rest of his days.

His followers, just like today, were beaten, stoned, persecuted, raped, tossed into jails and murdered for their faith.

Never once, anywhere, do you see Christ or the Apostles advocate violence as a means to "convert".

Now, lets look just a few years ahead.

Constantine, the emperor of Rome stated that he saw a cross in the sky before a battle and because of that, he became a believer. Thus begins the rise of the Holy Roman Empire, ultimately, the Catholic Church.

Catholicism is not Christianity. I repeat, it is not Christian. If we were to do a comparison between Christianity and Catholicism, the Jewish cult of Kabalah would be comparable to the Catholic Religion.

Kabalah is a religion of mysticism and works. Such is the catholic Church. Under the Pope (who's office is not biblical), non-christian doctrines such as purgatory, holy relics, saintification (not sanctification), the perpetual virginity of Mary, the worship of Mary and the saints, the doctrine of communion where the bread and wine turns into actual flesh and blood when consumed, angelic worship, confession to Priests, and many, many others were initiated and followed to this day.

Catholics also seem to be discouraged from reading the bible, as many lesser (but still well known) verses are unknown to them, as I have discovered in my conversations.

When many people speak of Christianity in the past, almost 90% of the time, they are referring to Catholicism.

Lets look at the crusades, what were they? They were the response of the Roman Catholic Church to the aggression of Islam, which as we all know, almost overran Europe. It was not a campaign of conquest concerning other nation states, but to free such nation states and territories from Islamic aggression.

Lets look a little bit further ahead and examine the Inquisition. What was it? In it's bluntest form, it was an act, blessed and condoned by the Catholic church, to bring so called "heretics" in line with their belief system. Indeed, though many cultures and civilizations suffered under this, it was the Christians who suffered the most, as they would not recognize the authority of the Pope, or follow the non-biblical belief system included in Catholicism.

That is why we had the Reformation. That is why Christians are sometimes called, "Protestants". Luther protested what was found in the Catholic religion, and this the name stuck.

However, during all of this, and even before Constantine started his religion, there were those who were called "Anabaptists". This group of believers has been around since the resurrection of Christ, and has always followed his teachings.

These were the Christians persecuted by the Catholic church. There were many, as they were not an "obscure denomination".

In fact, the reason we see so many Christian denominations today is because of that Protestant split from Catholicism. If you take a hard look at them, though they affirm most of the biblical truths, they still practice some of the catholic rites and traditions.

Churches such as the Baptist and some non-denominational ones are direct descendants of the Anabaptists.

Yes, we had the Salem witch trials, and there was colonialism when this nation was established. However, I advise you to look closely into these events, in light of my previous comments.

One big issue we had was Slavery. We all know about the American Civil War, brother vs. brother, state vs. state.

The North went to war to abolish slavery and preserve the Union. The South went to war to preserve their way of life, as well as States' rights.

There were Christian men and women on both sides of this war. Thankfully, the North won and slavery was abolished. Unfortunately, with that, also went the loss of States' rights (in all practical terms). In addition, this is when the Income Tax was initiated (on a supposedly temporary basis).

There have been issues with civil rights and women's rights, and I propose that these issues were a result of culture, not a result of Christianity.

Luk 20:35-36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God. (which means, God does not care for one person more then the other).

So in closing, I ask that you take into account the actions of the Catholic church as well as society when claiming the violent past of Christianity.

Anyway, it's been a pleasure reading all these posts and keeping up to date on the Islamic world through JW. As I said before, I apologize if I caused any hurt feelings, which was not the intent of this post.