Evangelical Lutheran Church in America considers Israel boycott

I'm not sure whether to file this under "Good Old Christian Antisemitism", or under "Just Plain Stupidity".

This is not surprising. When your hate of Jews exceed your knowledge of Islam, it is easy to explain modern day Lutheran behavior. Was it not Luther who wrote:

"Burn all synagogues.
Destroy all Jewish dwellings.
Confiscate the Jews' holy books.
Forbid rabbis to teach.
Forbid Jews to travel.
Forbid Jews to charge interest on loans to non-Jews and confiscate Jewish property.
Force Jews to do physical labor.
Expel the Jews from provinces where Christians live."
- Martin Luther in the pamphlet "Concerning the Jews and Their Lies." Early sixteenth century.

This was not the most enlightening moment of the Reformation. It will not be the smartest way for Christians to protect themselves from attacking Moslems.

Martin Luther is one of my heros because he challenged the Catholic Church on their doctrine that people could not talk to God without an intermediary (priest), which is, of course, simply wrong. He said that people can have a direct relationship with God/Jesus (One and the Same), which is, of course, correct.

But, he was a notorious Jew hater which tarnishes his important legacy, unfortunately.

Anyway, perhaps this is why today's Lutherans are going against Israel. So, it's not "...Christian anti-Semitism" (as Kim wrote above), but specifically Lutheran anti-Semitism. I'm Christian (Protestant) and definitely do NOT hate Jews. I'm all for Israel against the Terrorist Mohammedan Palestinians. And love that 1967 Six-Day Arab/Israeli War utter and complete victory (hey- where was "allah?" lol!)!

This is such a stupid move by the Lutherans. I've never known a Lutheran so I don't know what they are like from a personal basis.

At least the stupid amendment passed by only 17 votes (385 to 368), which shows that the majority of the Lutherans aren't anti-Semitic.

How incomprehensible these recent stories about Christians allying themselves with muslims are, like the preacher who said we should all call God allah, and the minister who claimed to be both Christian and muslim. The two ideologies could not be farther apart!

These fools must have forgotten that Jesus himself was a Jew.

Martin Luther is one of my heros because he challenged the Catholic Church on their doctrine that people could not talk to God without an intermediary (priest), which is, of course, simply wrong. He said that people can have a direct relationship with God/Jesus (One and the Same), which is, of course, correct.

But, he was a notorious Jew hater which tarnishes his important legacy, unfortunately.

Anyway, perhaps this is why today's Lutherans are going against Israel. So, it's not "...Christian anti-Semitism" (as Kim wrote above), but specifically Lutheran anti-Semitism. I'm Christian (Protestant) and definitely do NOT hate Jews. I'm all for Israel against the Terrorist Mohammedan Palestinians. And love that 1967 Six-Day Arab/Israeli War utter and complete victory (hey- where was "allah?" lol!)!

This is such a stupid move by the Lutherans. I've never known a Lutheran so I don't know what they are like from a personal basis.

At least the stupid amendment passed by only 17 votes (385 to 368), which shows that the majority of the Lutherans aren't anti-Semitic.

How incomprehensible these recent stories about Christians allying themselves with muslims are, like the preacher who said we should all call God allah, and the minister who claimed to be both Christian and muslim. The two ideologies could not be farther apart!

These fools must have forgotten that Jesus himself was a Jew.

All I can say is:
This is sickening! What example are they trying to set, or have the saudi's bought the Lutheran Church?

Like I said, Gramfan, and also David England above, it has to do with Martin Luther...pity.

Pandering to the crocodile who they think understands "gestures of goodwill" when all he understands is the nearing of the sucker to his maw.

Time for the Lutherans to read the Koran.

And even worse, the Hadiths.

Do they think such acts of submission to a militantly anti-Christian cult (Mohammadism) are advisable?

Or wouldn't they even understand the question?

I sent them an email. I doubt they will like it

I also e-mailed them with my thoughts, Elric.

Martin Luther may have been an anti-semite but vastly more important was his clear rejection of Islam in the 16th C. The following is a quote from ‘Luther and the Challenge of Islam’ by J. Paul Rajashekar of The Lutheran Theological Seminary of Philadelphia:

“One central difference between Islam and Christianity, as Luther repeatedly observed, was pertaining to the doctrine of Christ. In his preface to the A Book on Life and Customs of the Turks, he wrote:
‘Muhammad denies that Christ is the son of God. He denies that He died for our sins. He denies that He rose for our life. He denies faith in Him remits our sin and justifies us. He denies His coming judgment of the living and the dead, though he does believe in the resurrection of the dead and the day of judgment. He denies the Holy Spirit and His gifts.’

Thus: it should be blindingly clear that these renegades of the Evangelical Lutheran Church, in their naive support of the Palestinian Muslim cause against Israel, are grossly out of step with their own traditions and beliefs. How disgusting and unworthy are they of their Christian affiliation!

On the one hand, I find the preoccupation with and the grandiose, pretentious fantasizing about such an intervention amusing.

Then I think about the propriety of a Christian religious organization circumventing U.S. State Department policies and U.S. laws in supporting known terrorist affiliated entities, even if inadvertant and by proxy.

Then I find myself wondering, just how many ccpies of "On the Jews and Their Lies" are there on the shelves of ELCA libraries and whose names are on the check-out cards?

Martin Luther is dead, so how is he now to be blamed?

Ok he was an anti-semite, but I don't get what you really mean Darcy.

Is it the fault of the current Lutherans following his philosophy? Is that what you mean?

I just read an Aussie blog saying that Anglicans churches here have become so left-wing that people are leaving in droves. I am wondering where all this is leading?

It is not a good thing,IMHO.

Yes, that's what I mean, Gramfan. "Current Lutherans following" Luther's 16th century ideas about Jews. Yes.

Well, the current Mohammedans follow Mohammed's ideas about Infidels.

But, the Lutherans should know better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America is only one sect, or branch, of the Lutheran Church. Protestantism is division after division. These people are liberal on every issue from ordaining/marrying homosexuals to abortion. Their sect evolves constantly.

The Missouri Synod Lutherans are a more traditional sect. After 9/11, one of their pastors prayed with muslims in some stadium and came under great fire. 9/11 notwithstanding, he was told, Lutherans are trinitarian Christians and do not worship Allah, the "muslim" god.

They should immediately dispatch a delegation of supporters to visit Gaza and feel some Hamas love first hand. Are they crazy?

CapitalistGig,
Thank you for making the distinction between the different sects or synods of the Lutheran Church in America. I was formerly a Roman Catholic, but now I am a Lutheran of the Missouri Synod. We are definitely the more conservative of the major branches in America (though our current president is doing his best to destroy that), and I, personally, am a huge supporter of Israel. Not all Lutherans are anti-Semites, though there might be some. Thanks again for making the distinction, and this article is quite depressing...

Does any one knows the address of key figures among the Lutherans? I am already compiling a letter to protest against this insane action.

Within the Mainline Churches of North America, what is called "The Inclusive Gospel" is growing in prominence. It is pro-gay, anti-capitalist, often anti-American (at least here in Canada), anti-Western culture, and anti-Israel. Father and Lord language is often rejected as being "hierarchical and patriarchical" ie evil.

It is not surprising that the split is about 50/50. Amongst clergy, the split is like 75/25 in favour of the Inclusive Gospel. Most Christians, past and present, believe in a Redemptive Gospel. Those who are interested can do some Google searches and find information on the difference. Basically, true Christianity (Redemptionist) teaches that Jesus dies for our sins and thereby made a new covenant through which we have new and eternal life with the living God. Inclusivists believe that Jesus inaugurates a new kingdom inwhich all who were sinners and outcasts are now included as God's people. Redemptionists believe are are welcomed whilst we were still sinners and outcasts, but God's holiness calls us to sanctification (turning from that which is evil towards that which gives life.).

Inclusivism will often accept all sorts of sexual sins, tends to affirm socialist ideas, and does not focus much (if at all) on individual confession or growth in holiness. It is like God's love is all there is and that all the stuff in the Bible about growing in holiness and God's judgement is just cultural baggage.

This might seem off topic, however the Inclusivist Gospel folks often help to support a leftist secularist agenda by giving its goals (pro-abortion, pro-euthenasia, pro-feminist, pro-gay) the appearance of Christian support. For example, Democrats can claim to be Christian and support preborn infanticide (abortion).

The anti-Israel stuff is no surprise given the Canadian experience.

Well, I hope all that Luciferan money gets a big bang for their bucks....maybe they will invest in PA greenhouses in Gush Katif, or tunnels at the border. Maybe they could take that crummy Gumby show and put it on PA television...and have Pokey wear a bomb belt...while the host Saraa is riding on his back, taking phone calls from her little fans.

James Martel hits the nail on the head. I received baptism and confirmation in the Episcopal Church (USA), frequently attended services and took an active role in parish life. About 10 years ago, I reluctantly left, after admitting to myself that the church and I had political and social views that were almost diametrically opposed. On Sunday mornings I now walk, swim, kyack or skeet shoot, then have a big breakfast and a bloody mary. Have not really missed the church at all. The diocesan newspaper kept showing up for several years, and any mention of the middle east blamed Israel and/or the U.S. and was extremely sypathetic towards the Palestinian cause.

Martin Luther was a notorious anti-semite whose views on Jews are only matched by the Nazi's whom he inspired. He astounds me that any person today could continue to call themselves a "Lutheran" after this pig.

Just read up and some of his writings and it will become clear why the Lutheran Church in America wants to boycott Israel. One of his great books that was waved by Nazi's at their rallys. "On the Jews and their lies"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies

Martin Luther's 8 point plan for Jews"

"First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. ..."
"Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. ..."
"Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. ..."
"Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. ..."
"Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. ..."
"Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them. ... Such money should now be used in ... the following [way]... Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed [a certain amount]..."
"Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow... For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants."
"If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews' blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country" and "we must drive them out like mad dogs." [30]

MP, please come back to the fold. My spouse was a lifelong Epicopalian but the Sunday sermons about "accepting choice" "increasing the minimum wage," "tearing down all prisons" put an end to those Sunday morning nightmares.

Just last Sunday at mass the reading told of God's promise to Abraham that he would lead a great nation and his inheritance would be THROUGH ISAAC (not Ishmael). There are good churches out there.

Sorry to be OT, but all of us Lutherans, Pentecostals, Buddhists, Taoists, and atheists have to hang together and not fight amongst ourselves. Islam is the enemy, and we are all it its crosshairs.

I find it interesting that the Lutheran church chooses to take a stand half way around the world which goes against the Book that they base their religion on.

All the while, the Lutheran church will not take a stand right here at home on any moral, ethical, or Christian position in their own front yard.

I know this is 'old fashion' but does the Lutheran church remember what 'sin' is and that they are suppose to fight 'sin'. Someone let the Lutherans know that Jesus was a Jew, they may have forgotten that.

Is this a dhimmitude behaviour, or are they just annoyed at Israel for some reason?
Posted by: EliasAlucard

Both. They're what the Germans call "Gutmenschen" - naivelings.. do-gooders.. self-important fools who are weaned on nazi palestinian rubbish [npr] and palestinian broadcasting Systems [pbs].

Both of which of course carry the BBC, which IMHO is more pakistani than British.

These naivelings suck up the messages which emanate from the various lefty MSM outlets and consume them as fact.

Now they are trying to find a convenient outlet for their newfound fervour.. how convenient to target the one Jewish State in the entire World.

Pfui!

They are trying to show everybody else just how goody-goody they are. Well, I ain't buying their hypocracy.

The concentration of hypocrites in church on Sunday morning is about a thousnad times the national average.

I have not been to church since 1968 for reasons I have stated several times.

Darcy,
thanks for your answer, and thanks to everyone else.

May I make a request? If people want to post sources please don't use wiki. It is not reliable. While what you have all written may be true, wiki is a good place to start, but that's about it. Its text is editable by anyone.Here is but one example.

http://www.searchenginejournal.com/fox-news-caught-sabotaging-wikipedia-entries/5486/

Having read all the comments, I have come to the conclusion that another holocaust in Europe is extremely likely.
No one is going to stop it from happening again, especially if oil is the bargaining chip.

I'm a Lutherhan and the congregation that I attend is a member of the ELCA. I'm a bit suprised by some of the language. The intent is stated on their web page, http://www.elca.org/peacenotwalls/, and its an initiative to promote peace between Israeli's and Palestinians. I think the initiative, though having a worthy goal, needs to understand about the threats and dangers posed by Islam as pointed out so many times on this web site. To provide a quote concerning the initiative:
The Rev. John H. K. Schreiber, bishop, ELCA Southeast Michigan Synod, Detroit, said, "I applaud the efforts of the ELCA to walk in solidarity with our brothers and sisters of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land, to stand for peace and justice. We also need to match our rhetoric with using the vast resources that have been entrusted to us by God and this church."
Some voting members expressed concern that adopting the memorial would complicate relations in their immediate communities and abroad.
"I fear that the language we have right now confuses the Jewish community about our support for them, and it sounds like we're speaking out of two sides of our mouth," said the Rev. Bruce D. MacLaughlin, a voting member from the ELCA Northeastern Pennsylvania Synod.
There have been some incidents between the IDF and some of the Lutheran churches over there that appear to be more sympathetic to the palestinians. Knowing all of the pressures that the israelis are under i can well understand some of their actions.

I believe that what the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America is doing is a result of plain stupidity, not old-fashioned Christian Anti-Semitism.

If the organization was propagating Martin Luther's pamphlet entitled On The Jews and their Lies, then it would most definitely be practicing old-fashioned Christian Anti-Semitism.

In case readers of Jihad Watch have never heard of Luther's pamphlet, the following link describes its contents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_their_Lies

The information found in this link is very disturbing, so I would not recommend that squeemish people read it.

Fortunately, non of the Luthern groups that I have heard of ever endorce such hatred. In fact, the Lutheran church in Denmark was instrumental in saving nearly all of the country's Jews from the Nazis during the Second World War.

I know this is just coincidence - but, remember the serial murderer "BTK" in Wichita, Kansas, caught 2 years ago? Lutheran.

And the pastor of his church stood by him.

Incredible. "BTK" - Dennis Rader - committed unspeakable acts against his victims, which included children. Is this "PC" - standing up for evil serial murderers? How low has our country fallen?

>>What is the main reason for this Church and its boycott stance?
Posted by: EliasAlucard

Being raised Lutheran (yet educated in the Catholic school system) in Minnesota, I have encountered all the different groups. The ELCA is way on the liberal side of things (might be different elsewhere though where's there's less Gramscian influence). This is probably purely political in nature.

That pamphlet everyone keeps talking about, I never heard of it until now.

Look everyone, don't make such snap judgements about this being "antisemitism", all right? I don't like that word. It's usage is basically the same as Islamophobia. People must be able to criticize Jews just like any other people, without being labelled as a racist.

Posted by: EliasAlucard

I'm sorry, but the equivalence you've set up between anti-semitism and islamophobia is absolutely false. Criticism of Islam, per se, is not the same as targeted actions discriminating against Jewish people. Criticize Judaism all you want, as does Christopher Hitchens in his book "god is not great" -- that is NOT anti-semitism, but rather academic scrutiny of a belief system. As a JW visitor for the past 2 years or so, I have found this site an excellent source of honest & balanced criticism of Islam as an ideology and a belief system, and not a repository of hatred against Muslim people. This branch of the Lutheran Church is specifically targeting the collective inhabitants of Israel (the vast majority of whom are Jews) for a boycott with prejudice and without any consideration of the moral responsibility Palestinians & the Arab mid east bear with respect to the Palestinians plight and the lack of peace in the region.

Again, look at what Luther wrote about Jews. He was advocating the annihilation of JEWS. This is anti-semitism and labeling as such has nothing to do with "snap judgments". If Luther had posted a criticism of Judaism as a belief system or in terms of some of its practices (again, I offer Hitchens as an example), this would not be anti-semitism. Do you understand the difference? It is crucial to do so if you truly wish to evaluate current world events in an honest, morally responsible manner.

Interestingly enough, the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland is also rather dhimmified.

Dum Dhimmi Dum Dum Dum

Thanks for your comment. I wanted to say something that meant the same/similar just above. You have done a much better job than I have.

Ok, I was born Lutheran. Luther was a giant in many ways, and the church at the time needed reforming. The doctrines of the church are many which I find wrong. The accusations about his attitude towards the Jews are correct. Many people might not know that Luther also said unforgiveable things about the peasants.

There were two Luthers, the young Luther, and the old Luther. With the young Luther it is much harder to find disagreeable things to complain about. The old Luther--well, quite frankly I'm ashamed of him.

They always get into politics. The ELCA is losing members at a remarkable rate because of it.

I have an emotional tie to my church. But I can't stand this non sense.

What do I do? Exit, or stay and fight inside?

I can put up with all sorts of things I don't agree with theologically for the sake of the companionship. But I hate this. See my problem? And I am getting older too, and feel I have no where to go. Tell me, what to do?

By the way, it a case of stupidity, not current anti-semitism in the church. It is just this thoughtless, liberal non sense.

A little OT,
but just found a site showing solidarity with Israel:
http://www.academics-for-israel.org/
Based in the UK.Here are a couple of cooments:

“What we are witnessing today is the second great mutation of anti Semitism in modern times, from racial anti Semitism to religious anti-Zionism with the added premise that all Jews are Zionists. It uses all the medieval myths… The mutation is this; that the worst crimes of anti-Semites in the past-racism, ethnic cleansing, attempted genocide, crimes against humanity-are now attributed to the Jews and the state of Israel”

- The Chief Rabbi of the United Kingdom, Jonathan Sacks

"Criticism of Israel has become very similar to anti-Semitism. There exists in it a rejection of the Jewish people's right to express its identity in its state; and Israel isn't judged according to the same criteria that are applied to other countries. If anti-Semites once aspired to live in a world rid of Jews, today anti-Semitism's goal is apparently a world cleansed of the Jewish state." Former Swedish Deputy Prime Minister Per Ahlmark

Bob
You have a dilemma. You are right about the liberal/left "nonsense".

We talk about separation of church and state and that is what we have up to a point, but then clergymen like to have their say on many topics.

Ironically, if they don't speak out they are criticised for not saying anything about injustices.

Seems they are damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

If we didn't have a demcracy and 'open' political space in our society, I could understand having politics in the church, there being no where else to go. But this utter crap of turning the church into a political party--why? We get politics all day long out in society. I haven't given them a dime in a long time because of the politics. If I stay and fight inside, as I may, what I am going to do is to pledge to disinvest in the ELCA financially. And I had been thinking of making a good donation one of these days. Don't get me wrong, there are many truly wonderful people in the church who work their hearts out for all sorts of good things. Rest homes for the aged for example is one of our deals.

I got married in the oldest Lutheran church in Idaho, seating capacity about 20. The current church sits on land my family donated to it. See my problem? It can kind of tear you apart.

In his younger days, Luther said to the Jews--look, we have broken away from the Catholic Church, come join us, we can be one. We love our Jewish friends, come join us. It was later, after it was clear they would do no such thing, that the attitude hardened--those quotes that you read came from that period. Also, when the peasants took seriously the call to read the Bible for themselves, and judge for themselves, it wasn't long before it turned political rather than theological. Why are we serfs? Rebellion. The Princes are not stern enough with the peasants says Luther.

Well, he was a man of his time and place is all I can say.

But Lutherans today? No way. A lot of us are out in those national graveyards too, having fought against Hitler.

I can't think of a group, not one, without some bad marks. Maybe the Quakers, but they gave us Nixon, didn't they?:)

We have one Sunday a year--Reformation Sunday--sometime around October usually--that is given over to Luther and the Reformation. And no, there are no anti semitical books in the libraries.

I don't know why they voted that way. Naivetee, confusion, hell if I know. I'm sorry they did, and I know they have gone again and split the church. By trying to be relevant, I believe they will succeed in the end in making ourselves less relevant than before. They will lose members over it.

It disappoints me, and I will consider my options. God Bless.

One more thing. The Reformation was a large complex deal starting long before Luther and he was only part of it and lasting after him. For me it would have been better if the protestants had followed the protestant spiritual reformers rather that more towards Luther and some others, but that is not how it occurred. It is easier to adhere to some formula like salvation through faith alone, than do the hard work of really reforming oneself, along with breaking from the Catholic Church.

The Lutheran Church is a democracy. It is ground up, not top down. And they voted.

EliasAlucard

I don't think I said Jews were the only ones who ever suffered. Stalin, Pol Pot,,,the list is too large and it is a work in progress right now.

People have suffered throughout history, all over the planet.

But the holocaust still stands out as industrialized slaughter.

And what makes it worse is that it happened not that long ago in allegedly civilized times, and in a country that had made enormous cultural contributions.In fact a country that gave us Luther,,,ironically.

As for any churches who want to help Palestinians that's their concern . I am quite secular so it doesn't concern me that much as I have no say in it.

I am just afraid that in the end it won't help much. "Grace" is not a quality one sees often in the muslim world.

If Israel goes down,and I actually think it will, things don't bode well for any of us. This will be Israel's battle. They will fight it by themselves, but possibly with US military supplies as usual.

It's to be expected. Luther was a notorious Jew-hater among other nasty things. No surprise that the church he invented to satisfy appetites would come full circle. Any yes, there is a political dimension to all of this.

It's to be expected. Luther was a notorious Jew-hater among many other nasty things. No surprise that the church he invented to satisfy his appetites would come full circle. Any yes, there is a political dimension to all of this.

Gramfan - I agree that the holocaust against the Jews is particularly terrifying because it was perpetrated by one of the most advanced, seemingly "civilized", cultures of the age. I can expect barbarism from primitives. It is much more chilling when planned and executed with precision by a first world nation.

No sir - Not worse, simply more shocking considering the source. When you are dead, you are dead, whether it is because of a robbery an arguement, an accident, or state-sponsored murder. It simply is more shocking when mayhem is committted by people you like or at least respect. The sense of betrayal is greater. If captured by Turks or Iranians, I would expect cruel treatment. When German civilization ran off the rails at the behest of the Nazis, they betrayed Western civilization. (Cultural relativists who feel that I should view all societies the same are invited to bite me.)

EliasAlucard

You have a chip on your shoulder and it is showing.
You are also choosing to interpret above posts incorrectly.

EliasAlucard:

Your belief that the USA was founded on genocide is absurdist, leftist tripe.

There was no POLICY in the US government which sanctioned the "genocide" of American Indians. NONE.

There's a great difference between that and the POLICIES of Nazi Germany.

If you applied some critical thinking, and was honest about it, you'd find the truth.

Luther was no hero. He was an anti Semite and he was adored by the Nazis for his hateful views towards Jews.

"By their fruits shall you know them."

As for priests being "intermediaries", they are not. They administer the sacraments, which is a priestly function and has been one since the beginning of recorded human history. The role of the priest is an ancient and universal human endeavor. The ancient Hebrews had their priests who practiced sacrifices to God. Look at the ancient Romans... Even the most rudimentary pagan tribes have priests who are the facilitators to the supernatural.

.

George Washington = Adolph Hitler? Good Grief.

The great majority of Native Americans who died died of disease.

When Lewis and Clark returned from the Pacific coast to pick up some supplies not far from where I am sitting, they happened upon a Nez Perce, just returned from a trip south, to the land of the Shoshone. He had a necklace of scalps around his heck.

It was the wild west out here.

The coming of the law resulted from an inevitable clash between two cultures, one at a somewhat higher level of material culture.

The name of a good Lutheran theologian writing today is Marcus Borg, who teaches or taught at Oregon State University. Hiss books are widely available. How he would have voted on this proposal I have no idea.