In Iraqi south, Shi'ites press for autonomy

"In Iraqi south, Shiites press for autonomy," by Sam Dagher for the Christian Science Monitor:

BAGHDAD - When Najaf unplugged its power station from the national grid last week, it was a sign of provincial dissent over the unequal distribution of electricity. But it also indicates a new assertiveness in the south, as Iraq's regional leaders seek to wrest control from a central government in Baghdad paralyzed by political infighting.
Multiple visions for unifying the county's southern provinces are emerging. The Supreme Islamic Iraqi Council (SIIC), one of the most powerful Shiite parties, is leading the charge to form an autonomous "South of Baghdad Region."
But 45 southern tribal notables in Najaf last week signed their own pact that envisions creating "the self-rule government of the unified Iraqi south."
Regardless of which southern group wins out, Baghdad faces a formidable challenge that could mean not just the loss of electricity, but revenue from the region's ports and oil fields, and further fracturing along sectarian lines.
"A federation of regions is one of the more practical solutions to Iraq's problems, but there is real fear that this will only be a prelude to partition," says Thamer al-Ameri, former adviser to the Iraqi parliament and now independent politician.
"Iraqis have yet to prove they are capable of power-sharing. We are just not ready to be in a federative union. So far it has been all about each group getting the most for itself," he says.
When Najaf pulled the plug on its electricity from Baghdad, provincial spokesman Ahmed Duaibel said it was because the provincial officials felt Najaf was not getting its fair share of electricity.
"We were being cheated out of our allotted quota for electricity and we felt this did not befit Najaf's stature as a pilgrimage center and seat of the marjayia [Shiite religious authority]," says Mr. Duaibel. "We did this for the sake of our citizens and we do not consider it mutiny against the central government."
[...]
But one prominent resident who is familiar with the workings of the local authority says the move is part of a larger effort to include Najaf in the "South of Baghdad Region." The other provinces included in the project are Babil, Basra, Dhi Qar, Diwaniyah (also known as Qadisiyah), Karbala, Maysan, Muthana, and Wasit.
[...]
The national assembly had passed a controversial law in October 2006 outlining the mechanism for establishing regions in Iraq. The law allows for regions to be created starting early April 2008 provided local referendums are held on the issue.
The law was opposed by Sunnis and Shiite rivals to SIIC, such as the Fadhila Party and Moqtada al-Sadr's movement, because they said it heralded the fragmentation of Iraq.

By focusing their efforts on controlling just a part of Iraq, the Shi'ites would give up the rest, including Baghdad. They would have a tremendous majority in the south, but would effectively cede other areas, potentially leaving Sunni areas intact (and with some level of sovereignty) as staging areas for attacks. Al-Sadr and others opposed to the idea may have noted that, with the U.S. preoccupied with holding Iraq together, the Shi'ites can rely on U.S. forces' continuing to do the dirty work of suppressing the Sunni insurgency. Then, with Iran's help, they can fill the vacuum.

[...]
Partition is increasingly being advocated by Washington lawmakers and think tanks as the only way to bring peace to Iraq. "There is a massive operation underway to pave the way for the [south of Baghdad] region, but it's being done quietly," says Sheikh Jalaleddin al-Saghir, a senior parliamentarian and Hakim partisan who favors the SIIC plan.
Besides enjoying a close relationship with Iraq's most revered Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, and educating the public about the merits of the "South of Baghdad" project, Sheikh Saghir says his party has already drawn up a detailed blueprint for creating the regional administration and that regular meetings take place now between top political, economic, and security officials from all nine provinces to further the goal.
He says the issue is of "tremendous regional and strategic significance that leaves no room for misadventures."
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41 Comments

The truth is that in the end, Iraq will go the way of the old Soviet Union and Yugoslavia and break-up.

lol @ "autonomy"
Is that the best excuse they could come up with?
Beyond lame!
lol

...even if they set up separate new countries, they would not stay in their own country....they would start immediately in conquering or terrorizing their neighbors....all in the name of Islam...

Actually, there's that advantage possibility there...
1) Iran tries to annex the shi'a south, thus threatening Kuwait (yes, they're shi'a too, but not exactly friends of Iran, and arab shi'a vs persians)

2) The sunni midsection would force saudi arabia & Jordan to expend resources to keep that stable (the more they're forced to expend on this, the less they have against Israel-shooting their trojan horse all to hell) The saudis will NOT like that one bit.

3) The Kurd north are an easy spot for US forces, since most love us being there (though Turkey won't like that-tough sh*t). Iranian kurds are also imploring US to help them and their other anti-mullahocracy groups against Iran, which would cause grevous problems for the mOslem munchkin trying to keep his islamonazi regime from falling apart even faster than it currently is.
(Iran is still quibbling with Russia over nuke payments & Russia's demand iran withdrawl from the gas pipeline deals with Turkmenistan & Turkey, which squeezes the munchkins jewels even tighter in the vise, as Russia wants the monopoly on it-the real reason the west is getting played with over the iranian nuke issue)
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=4476

Remember, when it comes to strategy, there's ALWAYS an advantage to ANYTHING. *weg*
"Know thine enemy"
;-)

"the Shi'ites can rely on U.S. forces' continuing to do the dirty work of suppressing the Sunni insurgency. Then, with Iran's help, they can fill the vacuum."

My, those geniuses who thought up and supported "Operation Iraqi Freedom" are no fools that's for sure.

I still haven't heard any explanation why Infidel troops should be giving up their lives so that muslims can experience the joys of demAAAAAAAAAcracy.

By the way, you all might like seeing this one...
it's about time someone grew some balls and told Maliki to "GTF out of the way!". LOL
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/ss_iraq_08_07.asp
Ohhhhh, al sadr-mizer isn't gonna like this at all!
*playing smallest violin in the world to the tune of "my heart bleeds for you" *
LMAO

"lol @ "autonomy"
Is that the best excuse they could come up with?
Beyond lame!
lol"
Posted by: jcom972 August 8, 2007 7:39 AM

jcom...maybe they mean Automotonomy....I see dead people, only they don't think they're dead.

(lmao jauhara, could be! that's a good one!)

Oh, and looks like Bush is finally taking SOME hints on syria as well ('bout damned time, W!)
He just froze assets of anyone opposed to Lebanons government (which mostly includes syria)
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/ss_lebanon_08_04.asp
I bet pelosi won't be very happy this morning...lol

Gen. David Petraeus, who has simply ignored the prime minister and runs his own policy in Iraq.
jcom972 that was a great article! the more l read and hear about General David Petraeus, the more l see that there really is some intelligence in the military. He has stopped paying attention to PC attitude and walked right over al maliki! good for Gen.Petraeus!

Jauhara Al-Kafirah"I see dead people, only they don't think they're dead."

Unfortunately, it's the Infidel community in Iraq who are the "dead people"

"Iraqi Christians Were Safer Under Saddam, Says Vatican Official"

http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0704487.htm

"Rabbi Emad Levy, Bagdad's last Rabbi and one of about 12 members of the Jewish community remaining in the city, compared his life to "living in a prison". He reported that most Iraqi Jews stay in their homes "out of fear of kidnapping or execution"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/02/AR2006100201317.html

But not to worry for all those senior hard line Islamist politicians are being treated well by the US troops in the Green Zone.

JCOM"Know thine enemy"

Judging by the evidence, JCOM, it seems the US administrtation and the US Army regard the Infidels as the curse and the democratically elected crazed-o-rabid-o-islamists as the cure.

It's that time again.....gets rapidly worn out coin.....heads I laugh blah blah blah

Remember, we DO have some of the finest and best...but we don't make policy-elected officials do that (read that as tie our hands with PC BS), sane as the much-aligned "military intelligence", which is actually second-to-none...
We didn't screw it up, it was the politicians who take their merry-assed time about it for a month, then have to do a study to determine if it's feasible to study the intel which takes up another month, then another month to determine the outcome, thus a 3rd month and 3 more feasibility studies...by then the intel's ancient history, but guess who gets blamed? Not the politicians who sit on their f*king asses, but the military, thus the maligned misnomer which is not deserved at all.
Petraeus got the go-ahead from POTUS and he probably said the same thing "it's about g*dd*mned time!".

What a load of camel crap.

If they want autonomy, let them move to Iran. This is Iranian land-grabbing, pure and simple AND, if they get it, they won't be satisfied until they go after all of Iraq and then on to war against everyone else in the region.

Our President is looking out for all of the well-meaning moms and dads of Iraq. It is clear to him that democracy is the best way to ensure future good will among the Iraqi population.

It is time to let the people speak. It is time for the moms and dads of Iraq to vote on whether they want a continued US presence in the Iraqi streets. Let freedom ring moms and dads! Let freedom ring.

We’d need to keep Balad and protect the Kurds, for logistical reasons only, of course.

Any autonomy should start with the Kurds.

Why reward the troublemakers?

Even if we want the eventual partition of Southern Iraq -into Sunni and Shi'ite zones, we have to stop the Iraqi thugs from "achieving" it for their people. And taking credit.

The terrorists of all stripes need to be crushed first, then we can grant autonomy to the less problemmatic leaders in Iraq.

Hate to burst some of your bubbles but this is shia against shia?

Even stanni rejected this?

So is there problems between iran and syria?
Looks like it is iran that is sending kilers into Turkey.


think so.

Russia says iran must come clean

wonder if that is washing with rocks or water?

Bukhari:V4B54N516 “The Prophet said, ‘If anyone rouses from sleep and performs ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blow it out thrice because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.’”


OH MY


Bukhari:V5B58N200 “I carried a water pot for the Prophet’s ablution and for cleaning his private parts. While following him with the pot, the Prophet turned and said, ‘Who are you?’ ‘I am Abu.’ The Prophet said, ‘Bring me stones in order to clean my private parts, but do not bring any bones or animal dung.’ So I brought some stones, carrying them in the corner of my robe till I put them by his side. When he finished, I walked with him and asked, ‘What can you tell me about the bones and the animal dung?’ He said, ‘They are of the food of Jinns [Devils]. A delegate of Jinns of the city of Nasibin came to me—and how nice those Jinns were—and asked me for the remains of human food. I invoked Allah for them that they would never pass by a bone or animal dung but find food on them.’”

NOW THATS JUST WIERD.
Music well not in iran 230 people arrested at a consert what does that mean?

No dance-ing

Well I can't go for that

totally OT, but, who, I wonder, is behind the push in the U.K. to use the polise forces to censore television documentaries that criticise islam? just askin'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=3I2QJNZXBHNWPQFIQMGSFFWAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2007/08/08/nmosque108.xml

sheesh, sorry about the typos in the previous post.

An off topic post, but worth reading nonetheless.
Headline: Dutch politician calls for banning of the Koran.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22212313-663,00.html

Enjoy,
Jon

Do I sniff the onset of the Second Persian Gulf War? Maybe I'm too optimistic, but these passionate Moslem men need an outlet for all that negative energy. And what could be better for that malady than a good old fashioned blood-letting. Here's hoping.....

There's was an informative article published in the Washington Post ("As British leave, Basra deteriorates") on August 7.

Apparently, the southern region of Iraq (especially Basra) is now a security nightmare, with a senior U.S. intelligence official stating that the Brits "have basically been defeated in the south." Another visitor noted that the Brits are holed up in sandbagged and barricaded buildings, surrounded by the hostiles, like "cowboys and Indians." The Basra Palace (where the Brits are holed up) has been attacked 600 times in the past 4 months. Outside (where the Indians roam) is in a state of near anarchy and lawlessness with armed militias and criminal gangs controlling the neighborhoods. (stealing oil is apparently a lucrative enterprise -- 2/3 of Iraqi's oil is located in the south).

I don't think the al-Maliki government will last long. Also according to the Post article, Maliki fired the Basra governor -- but the governor has refused to step down (defying Maliki; the governor also referred to Maliki as "the new Baath").

Some observers also say that Iran doesn't so much control this lawless region (influence, yes; control, no), and that it's the Iraqi Shiites who are using the Iranians...not the other way around.

Almost on a daily basis I check out JW for the latest in the barabarity and savagery from the wonderful world of islam. Explosives inside dead sheep and placed on live animals, suicide bombers, honor killings, etc etc. And I ask myself, just what kind of conversations, if any, take place in the White House by President Bush if he reads about these events or learns of them by some briefer? Does some tiny part of his being just gag at the thought that he is so quick to defend these whackjobs who hide behind some BS religion, aka ideology, to justify their heinous deeds? Does an even tinier part of his being choke up knowing that the best this country has to offer: our military, our youth, have been dying and losing limbs for these "people"?

I know the answer.

His briefers don't tell him this, 'cause they don't know. I can bet on that.

In Iraq, no matter what anyone does, it is bad news for someone. Saddam held the place together with a brutal iron fist. There was a reason for that, he knew the alternative. That alternative is now evident. Saddam may have been a self serving murderous rat, but he knew who he was dealing with.
Democracy wont hold Iraq together, niether will partition, with its potential for endless conflicts.
If the US continues on its path, the surge will wear out, and the police holding action will continue indefinatly. A larger war could happen.
The US could withdraw, not in defeat, but as a change in strategy. It is not an embarrassment to change ones strategy in war.
This is a schizophrenic war run by schizophrenic politicians, who smoked pot in their youth, and are now effected by mental maladys. Name me one liberal US politician who did not smoke pot in their youth, or do so to this day. If the UK study is true (I dont really think it is) and smoking one joint can cause schizohrenia later in life, nearly all US politicians are doped up schizophrenics.
This is especially important when dealing with Iraq. When the US actions in Iraq seem unstable,
confused, arbitrary, and stupid, it's because the mentally deranged are running things.
Or trying to. The mess in Iraq is an example of what happens when the inmates run the asylum.
And to compound the problem, the muslims involved are also mentally afflicted, but for different reasons. So you have the afflicted, trying to help other afflicted, stop being afflicted.
I used to think Al-gore invented pot smoking to help liberals focus, and stay in a good mood. Now I realise it was Al-lah who invented it, to give kaffurs schizophrenia. His plan has worked, look how screwy the 'clever' have run the 'war'.
Allah said, 'here 'baby' smoke alittle adis'. 'Well, you must have been a beautiful 'baby', but 'baby' look at you now'. While the schizophrenic in Washington trys to contain Iraq, the rest of us long term schizoids will light up a joint and stare at the sun...

Turf wars:

Islam does for "religion" what the old Homestead Act did for real estate. At the sound of a pistol shot, covered wagons would go from a starting line and race over the plains to a "stake" and many people were killed or injured on the way to the subject lot-section (wagons overturning, etc.)and usually a final shootout settled who arrived first. Islam reduces "religion" to such an absurdity.

It is time to let the people speak. It is time for the moms and dads of Iraq to vote on whether they want a continued US presence in the Iraqi streets. Let freedom ring moms and dads! Let freedom ring.

Pez,

Not quite sure where the sarc monitor was turned off.

They hold a referendum and ask us to stay. And then what? Will the good moms and dads of Iraq turn in their neighbors who persist in the insurgency or will they keep their mouths shut and only find the strength to protest against the US military?

They hold a referendum and ask us to leave. You say we need to protect the Kurds. I don't disagree but we keep saying it's one country. If the majority of the people want us to leave how do we say we'll leave Baghdad and move up north of Kirkuk if that's not what the referendum asked.

You do know how we're protecting the good moms and dads in western Iraq? All the sheikhs in al Anbar were bought by the US military! They were paid off to get them to stop the violence. THAT'S how we're getting peace in western Iraq, that much vaunted success we are having as part of the surge. It's considered a brilliant strategy: build alliances by paying people off. It brought to mind two words: war booty.

The purpose of Islam from day one: collect booty.

ewha1,

Thanks for the link to the Vatican article. Another reason not to respect anything that comes from Rome, this from a former Catholic.

Elric66: Interesting interview you provided respecting what to do with Iraq. Specific suggestions aside, my concern is that of Ralph Peters and so many others who have followed the Iraqi war and that is is Western Civilization tough enough to survive? I have to wonder. We certainly have the means to do so. It is the will that is the problem. The barbarians should always fear the civilized more than the civilized fear the barbarians. That's not the case right now. It needs to be.

Right now Wellington, the West is too soft to win. We have had it good for so long, we arent willing to do what it takes to win. Its easier to try to appease than disrupt the good life.

Sorry for the sarcasm PMK;

Point intended being, if a referendum was among the Iraqi masses, they would vote for us to leave. A vote of the people would be the excuse needed to get out.

The vote in Kurdistan would likely be for us to stay to provide protection from Turkey.

Sounds like a logical exit strategy to me.

OT, but me & my buddys were talkin' cars over some beers and schizo-precursant, and we were wondering, what are the finest Saudi and Iraqi built automobiles? We never see reviews in Car & Driver or Road & Track and were wondering.

All Muslims are aready suicidal, whether they admit it or not....

"totally OT, but, who, I wonder, is behind the push in the U.K. to use the polise forces to censore television documentaries that criticise islam? just askin'.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=3I2QJNZXBHNWPQFIQMGSFFWAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2007/08/08/nmosque108.xml


Posted by: Minority of One"

I have a copy of that documentary - sent from a friend. I can tell you it's pretty bad in the mosques over there.

From the Telegraph link above:


She said: "The splicing together of extracts from longer speeches appears to have completely distorted what the speakers were saying.

So, let me see, if I say that women should be hit, but then I say a bunch of nice things around it, that counteracts my bad statement? If I say Jews and Christians are pigs or other statements like that and then say a bunch of other things before and after that statement, does that make the statement less offensive?

Folks, this is pure poop. Fact is, I don't care if you splice a zillion evil statements together, it is STILL words out of THEIR MOUTHS. So, they gave us the meat and tossed out the bones since they only had so much time to make their point.

The UK had better wake up and fight back. These folks are BAD NEWS.

"Iraqis have yet to prove they are capable of power-sharing. We are just not ready to be in a federative union. So far it has been all about each group getting the most for itself," he [Thamer al-Ameri, former adviser to the Iraqi parliament and now [an]independent politician.
says]."
-- from the article above

Of course the Sunnis will never acquiesce in their new role, in an Iraq in which the Shi'a dominate. And of course the Shi'a Arabs will never give the Sunnis what they want, and think the Sunnis will have to take it or leave it, for now the Shi'a control the south, with all of its oil, and the Kurds control the north, with all of its oil, and the Sunnis control Anbar Province, with all its sand, and some date-palm stands, and of course those monuments built by Ozymanias al-Tikriti, now crumbling rapidly into dust.

And why won't they? Because of Islam. Islam does not teach the virtues of sweet reason and compromise. It teaches, the example of Muhammad teaches, the example of war, war made through qital, combat, and war promoted by all other means, including propaganda ("pen, speech") and money, and of course, war made through deception.

How could those who are raised up in Islam, who are surrouned by, suffused by, smothering in, Islam, with no hope of ever getting out of this closed totalitarian belief-system, ever arrive at the kind of compromises, genuinely meant, that the Americans fondly believe they will be capable of, because from first to last, those Americans have misunderstood, and failed to grasp the significance of, Islam?

In Islam there are two possible outcomes: Victor and Vanquished. That's it. And that is how the Muslims -- the Shi'a and the Sunni Arabs, and to a slightly lesser extent -- because their non-Arab identity does not reinforce but weakens the strength of their Muslim identity -- the Kurds as well in dealing with the Arabs.

Victor. Vanquished. Not a good prospect for advanced Western democracy.

Don't blame Ameican incompetence in "post-war planning." Once Saddam Hussein was deposed, everything that followed was nearly inevitable, though the time frame might have been different.

No. Blame Islam.

The "other Iraq", the one we should stay in.

Dr. Mohamed, from Kurdistan:

"The Kurds will be the best friends in the region," Dr. Mohammed says. "Even better than Israel, I am sure of that. We will be the best friends for the Americans in this region. We will be faithful."

Dr. Mohammed does not view the war as a U.S. invasion. "It is liberation. Americans liberated Iraqi people from dictatorship," he tells Simon.

It is a sentiment echoed in, of all places, a mosque. Like Iraqi Arabs, Kurds are Muslims. But this is surely the only Islamic part of the Middle East where you’ll hear kind words about America after Friday prayers.

"Can America think of Kurdistan as an ally, as a friend?" Simon asked a man.

"We were always with Americans. We even love America. But we are waiting for America to repay our love," the man replied.

From a "60 minutes" article:

When visiting Kurdistan, one can see nation-building wherever one looks—Kurds are building their country day by day. There are more cranes here than minarets and there’s a run on cement. A new mall with 8,000 shops and stalls is going up. So is an apartment complex known as "Dream City," in which some of the units are selling for $1 million. A giant bowling alley is almost finished, and an opera house is not far behind. What’s behind the boom? Security.

Kurds are quick to remind you that they are not Arabs and there is a de facto border between Kurdistan, which is in the northeast corner of Iraq and the rest of Iraq. Arab insurgents who want to slip into Kurdistan must get past hundreds of Kurdish checkpoints. And distinct from much of Iraq, the security forces in Kurdistan are disciplined and loyal. And they’re all Kurds. There are no ethnic divisions here, so the violence stays on the other side of the border.

Asked how many American soldiers have been killed in the Kurdish-controlled area since the beginning of the war, Nechervan Barzani, the 40-year-old prime minister of what is officially called the Kurdistan Regional Government, tells Simon, "No one."

Let the Kurds have their place in the sun and the hell with the rest of it. If that works, than I say we have done something good...just keep a close eye on Turkey, though.

True breezy...my Brother's in the sandbox, and his jaunts up to Iraqi Kurdistan proved almost boring, lol.
He said "only time something happens there is by some outsider tries to set something off", as it's relatively pacified.
Then again, wherever he and his unit goes, "resistance" is strangely & suddenly nonexistent. lol
(did I mention he's as anti-PCthoughtpolice as matter is to anti-matter? *weg*)

Look for Al-Maliki to be living in Switzerland or in Paris or London sometime very soon.. in luxury of course.

If he doesn't get himself killed before he can grab all the loot he intends to grab.

HURRAH More good news.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5035874.html

How can those Islamists take such devastating blows.

It was just so funny listening to Dubya et al trying to explain why it's the duty of US soldiers to give their lives so that muslims in Iraq can taste "demAAAAAAcracy".

"Operation Iraqi Freedom" Every Dhimmi's wet dream come true. Give your life so that muslims become more powerful.

And over in Afghanistan NATO are carrying on where they left off in the Balkans. Namely pouring in men and resources for the Islamists benefit.

Way to go Dubya and NATO. Way to go.

'"In this sense," he said, "our road map is obviously the declaration 'Dominus Iesus,'" the 2000 document of the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith which said Christ and the church are necessary for salvation.

Interreligious dialogue should not promote the idea that all religions are equal, he said, but that all religions "which are seeking God must be respected because they have the same dignity."'

- from the end of the article linked by ewha1

There's so much animosity towards Catholicism and Pope Benedict around here.
Christianity teaches that Pope Benedict must keep a dialogue open with Islam, and the closing statement by the Vatican makes very clear that the Catholic Church is not dhimmified and makes no concessions in what it considers important matters of faith.
Pope Benedict knows that many Muslims are trapped within Islam, even as they search for the true God.
Even Muslims, as individuals rather than as part of the Ummah, can feel an inner need to connect with their creator, rather than the satanic Allah of Islam; heck, there might even be Muslims who are closer to God than some of us Christians ;)







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