And if they're living in sin, don't even get him started about you.
But note well: this is the appeal jihadists make to their fellow Muslims all over the world, and it has proven to be quite effective. Secular Muslims have never mounted an effective comeback.
"Indonesians live in sin: Bashir," from Agence France-Presse (thanks to Davida):
INDONESIAN Muslims are living in sin as long as they fail to implement Islamic law across the world's fourth largest nation, hardline cleric Abu Bakar Bashir said today."As long as we live in a secular state, Indonesian Muslims continue living in sin," the Muslim leader told some 200 participants attending a seminar on Islam and democracy.
Bashir heads the Indonesian Council of Mujahedin, an umbrella organisation advocating the implementation of Islamic or sharia law across Indonesia.
The Government permitted Aceh province to begin implementing Islamic law, and that was to pacify demands for independence. Some districts have also passed strict Islamic bylaws.
Bashir said that sharia was a non-negotiable matter and "we cannot act in a soft way in order to implement Islamic law".
"The Muslim community has an obligation to struggle to make a drastic change in support of Islamic law implementation," he said, without specifying how they should do this.
As long as the country did not adopt sharia, Muslims had to follow it in their personal lives, as well as in their groups, he added....
AFP tells us:
More than 90 per cent of Indonesia's 232 million people are Muslims, but most follow a more moderate version of Islam.
Whew! Glad to hear that. How long will it last?
My wife is from Indonesia, she is Muslim....she is the definition of moderate, along with her family. She grew up reciting the Qur'an in arabic, she actually has no idea what it really says, and has absolutely no idea about what her Prophet(mpbuh) did in his life.
Her parents not only supported her decision to marry a kaffur, but her father even told her she could convert to christianity. The family is very kind, very simple....either they do not know what the Qur'an demands, or they simply ignore what it says based on their own stronger morals.
Basically, being a true moderate, means being ignorant of the religion, or ignoring Gods commands.....and that is quite telling.
Most people in Indonesia DO follow a moderate, syncretic form of Islam. I understand why Mr. Spencer would be dismissive of it, but I wish he wasn't.
Man-Eating Lions and Fighting Terrorism
GBA,
There may be moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam.
Re-read the post just above your's for clarification.
getbornagain,
Why? Its very telling that for Islam, the less you adhere to it, the more civilized you are.
Man-Eating Lions and Fighting Terrorism
getbornagain,
Why? Its very telling that for Islam, the less you adhere to it, the more civilized you are.
Man-Eating Lions and Fighting Terrorism
Man-Eating Lions and Fighting Terrorism
getbornagain,
Why? Its very telling that for Islam, the less you adhere to it, the more civilized you are.
Some of the posters above are correct, many Indonesians don't know what the Koran contains and therefore don't take their Islam too seriously. But that is changing rapidly, and not only in Indonesia: Many young muslims from Asian countries have spent some years working in the ME and returned with money and a 'faith' reinvigorated. It is these people who are forcing the wahabite variety on their countrymen with the support of the Saudi's.
I personally know many Indonesians (some in high places) who are very, very worried about this development. Of course they're trying to downplay it, but it will come to bite them in the ass.
30 years ago you would never see a hijab in Indonesia.
Now you see nothing but. That's bad news...
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/08/28/sheik-yermami-asks-the-imam-do-we-have-to-shave-scrotum-what-exactly-is-hind-parts-that-we-have-to-shave/
Some of the posters above are correct, many Indonesians don't know what the Koran contains and therefore don't take their Islam too seriously. But that is changing rapidly, and not only in Indonesia: Many young muslims from Asian countries have spent some years working in the ME and returned with money and a 'faith' reinvigorated. It is these people who are forcing the wahabite variety on their countrymen with the support of the Saudi's.
I personally know many Indonesians (some in high places) who are very, very worried about this development. Of course they're trying to downplay it, but it will come to bite them in the ass.
30 years ago you would never see a hijab in Indonesia.
Now you see nothing but. That's bad news...
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/08/28/sheik-yermami-asks-the-imam-do-we-have-to-shave-scrotum-what-exactly-is-hind-parts-that-we-have-to-shave/
Secular Muslims have never mounted an effective comeback.
A question for Robert, or anyone else knowledgeable about the Koran. I have read somewhere that a good part of the Koran (about one quarter of it, as I remember) is more or less gibberish or jabberwocky that no one has ever been able to make any sense out of. If this is correct, couldn't that be used to counter the jihadists? Just ask their imams to explain what is meant in these passages. When they cannot, then suggest that they are incorrect in their explanation of other passages. Or suggest one's own interpretation of these passages, to wit that they abrogate various other parts of the Koran.
Secular Muslims have been cowed into silence. The saddest thing is, even the ones living in the West are no longer immune from harassment or murder--and the West has allowed this to happen time and again.
GBA
Its the West's fault Islam is acting like Islam?
It's the West's fault that Islam has been ALLOWED to act like Islam.
If a lot of muslims knew the truth, or had the opportunity to leave, Islam would be dwindling like CAIR. And the mullahs know it.
That explains the lying, coercion, and my-way-or--the-highway approach in dealing with followers.
There's no excuse in the West for anyone to follow this hazard of a cult. Take off the blinders.
Actually, if more of them did, it would probably start a landslide.
"There's no excuse in the West for anyone to follow this hazard of a cult. Take off the blinders."
What really gets to me are the Western women who either convert to Islam or marry Muslim men. Are Western men not good enough for them? I saw many such women during my time in Cairo, and it just turned my stomach. Whores.
Sneakyzionistcrusader's wife is how most Indonesian muslims used to be.
With the Arab influenced madrasahs, Arab imams and money rampant in Indonesia there are more and more Indonesians who have become more 'pious'.
Pious here doesn't mean that they know Islam.
A lot of them pray more often, the women wear hijab and are very proud of it, proud to show the world that they are 'pious', good muslims.
The irony of it is that these Indonesian women who wear those stylish headcovers thinking that they are being good muslims, are so ignorant of their own religion that they don't realize that their 'pious' lifestyle is not the 'real' Islam which requires them to be, among other things, cooped up in their own homes.
Genital mutilation which used to be only done by people from the villages, aka uneducated, or by very few 'pious', aka strongline muslims, is now becoming more and more popular. Again I think to show the world around them that they are pious Muslims.
With regards to the Indonesian Muslims who are worried, like what was mentioned by Sheik Yermami -- that shows how difficult it is to be against an ideology that is wrapped up as religion.
It is very difficult to go atainst religion, one's faith. Especially if it is combined with the fear because of the brutality of the adherents of that religion.
We see it in the US right now. How many of the people or media have been cowed into not 'offending' the Islamist?
We need to educate everybody, even the Muslims, about the inherently evil Islam ideology.
I agree, what's the attraction there?
It's hard to blame women in Islamic countries, but in the West, I can't see how it makes sense on any level. Maybe they never had a father (or master).
Man-Eating Lions and Fighting Terrorism
GBA
Would would you suggest the West to do?
I've got one question to ask about Abu Bakar Bashir. Why is he still alive?
Elric, I would suggest the West stop appeasing Islam and start standing up to it.
"What's the attraction there?
I am a western woman. Not long ago, (pre-9/11 mid-nineties) I believed Islam was just a religion we were not familiar with. I assumed its violence was no different than the violence committed at times by christians, militant commie/atheists, etc. In past history christians had backward views of women too-by today's standards.
Ten years ago, the early islamist da'wa was very convincing. Read what those stupid deluded western women have been tricked into.(I was not tricked. I started to research the issue and soon became avidly opposed to all non-western treatent of women, especially the Islamic variety. )
A Muslim fellow behaves like a very open minded, moderate person. He at least pretends to respect women's freedoms. It is takiyyah, Islamist deceit. These poor female fools get in too deep before they realize what they were doing. They have been sufficiently dumbed down by multicularist propanganda too.
Western men and society are far from perfect. Compared to others, though, our men are the best.
Women who seek long distance mail order marriages choose western men.
Most women I know refuse to have anything to do romantically with ME and 3rd world men. We don't admit it for fear of being called bigots. I know that there are also good and fine men in those countries, but why take a chance?
We just politely steer clear of them and only seek our good men, the men of the west.
This is exactly what the west needs to understand. Most muslims do not know anything about thier religion. When it comes time for jihad, thier imams point out the specific verses in the quaran and the muslims must accept it (jihad is obligatory).