Poor little lambs. From the Daily Mail (thanks to Mao):
The London lawyer representing the injured "dirty bomber" Dhiren Barot has warned that terrorist convicts are being targeted by other inmates in Britain's jails.Solicitor Muddassar Arani accused prison chiefs of failing in their "duty of care" to protect terrorist inmates and predicted a Muslim "backlash" if victimisation continued.
Her warning came as she gave details of the extensive injuries sustained by Barot when boiling liquid was thrown over him by fellow convicts in Durham's Frankland Prison on 13 July.
Barot - a Muslim convert from London who was jailed for life last year for plotting attacks in London and New York with explosive-filled limousines and a radioactive "dirty" bomb - was left with severe burns to his scalp, forehead, neck, back and hands after the attack.
Ms Arani said the 35-year-old was in "extreme pain" and his wounds were infected. He is expected to seek compensation....
Two other terrorist convicts - Hussain Osman, jailed for his part in the 21/7 attacks in London, and Omar Khyam, the leader of a gang that planned to blow up Bluewater shopping centre - have also been targeted at the jail in recent weeks. A fire was lit in Osman's cell and Khyam has received death threats.
Ms Arani said there had been a failure to protect terrorist convicts. "If we can't treat them as human beings in prison then it does not reflect well on our society," she said.
Another muslim backlash? They must be keeping the chiropractors busy.
Wow, you have prominent friends indeed Mr. Spencer: none other then Chairman Mao! :-))) He'd know how to deal with jihadists swiftly and with style. :-))))
Joking aside, the nerve of these people is unbelievable. They should have thought about what they might face in prison before they embarked on a murder campaign. Inside there are no CAIR, no politically correct norms, no kafkaesque hate-crime laws, you are on your own. And it ain't pretty, right?
BTW, so much the better if there is a muslim backlash. It will be another great reminder of they really stand for.
Compare their mistreatment (by other inmates, not the instrumentality of the state) with the two Kurdish journalists who were killed by the Iranian government for being "enemies of God".
Prisoners in gaols have a very fine sense of justice and will react strongly to undeserved favouritism or anyone who threatens the life of a child.
Muslim terrorists enter their domain on both the above accounts and when due process fails to give them what they feel these scum deserve, they intervene.
It is a wonder that we are not hearing the tales of mass rape or terrorists in western prisons as this is also a well established method of putting undesirables in their place. However I feel that while this is probably happening I am not certain how it looks on a terrorists CV and so I expect that we wont hear much about it. But woe betide the prison that has its urinals facing Mecca!!
IMHO well done!! maybe they might think twice about martyrdom if the crims inflict the true justice that the lilywhite western system fails to do in the first place.
Anyone remember the Iraqi prisoners begging the yanks to come back to that infamous prison where some woman pointed a finger at their willies? Now that the Iraqis are using standard islamic interrogation techniques it would appear that they dont mind her pointing her finger at them after all. You have to laugh at these inbred fools.
Welcome to the Jungle.
The people in prison are not part of society - that's the reason most are locked in.
Society and prison are two different places and are separted, Ms.Arani - that's the whole point, isn't it? Prisoner behavior is not a reflection of society in the slightest, unless you consider it a contra-indicator in most things.
Prisoners are people who are not constrained by the moral and ethical guidelines of society. They are hurting and threatening jihadis because nothing in society inhibited their violent or anti-social tendencies. The jihadis weren't inhibited by society either.
Considering the terrorists get their special diets and korans in the British prisons - and it was the prisoners that meted out these deeds... me thinks the muslims and the lawyers need to get a reality check. They are in prison because they wanted to kill them/us - I would say that the prisoners have a better scope of the situation. Don't do the deeds that warrent prison time and then there would be no problems.
They are treated more humanely than they would have given us in the reverse situation. And I am having a hard time feeling 'sorry' for them or any muslim who finds themself where they belong - in jail - for thinking they can just go about their usual 'duties' of wanting us dead. If feel the same about murderers, pediphiles and others that commit certain crimes against their fellow human being.
Its just unbelievable!! They aim to kill innocent people and when caught have the nerve to complain!!
I hope they all get a good kicking.
We have a criminal justice system for a good reason, and it's that system's job to judge and sentence criminals, not anyone else's. In other words, prison inmates have no business dishing out vigilante justice for their own amusement. What kind of moral authority is some murderer, rapist or thug supposed to have, anyway?
If people are okay with this kind of behavior in prison, then why not just abolish the rule of law and replace it with anarchy? It's the same thing in principle. I really like the way MisIslamist considers rape to be "a well established method of putting undesirables in their place." What if I think you're an undesirable element of society? Is it okay if I rape you? Or what if you're imprisoned for a crime you didn't commit?
No, it doesn't reflect well on society if mindless mob justice is allowed.
If the Brits would just hang their traitorous terrorists, these buggers wouldn't have to suffer this kind of tea-time abuse.
They shouldn't be in the regular population anyway.
Because of the chances for espionage, sabotage, recruitment, etc.
Terrorist + rope noose = security.
profitsbeard
the british establishment allowed the islamic jihad to grow, read londonistan (though you probably already have?) so they would never even dream of hanging him. maybe under a different stronger patriotic government this will happen, but until then, socialists control the UK.
but i understand your sentiments, as do most freedom loving peoples.
They wanted to kill and maim hundreds of people, and Ms. Arani says they should be treated as human beings???
If they want to be treated as human beings, they should have behaved as such.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article2169795.ece
check out this "soldier of allah", he actually wants to stay in Gitmo.
Quote:"No, it doesn't reflect well on society if mindless mob justice is allowed"
Is it mindless mob justice? We are talking about prisons and inmates here not a bunch of worked up ratepayers, or aggrieved citizenry. You enter a jungle when you enter prison and tough if you cannot handle it.
Considering the damage they do I, consider virtually all of the sentences given to wouldbe or actual terrorists to be far too light and if the inmates agree with this, too bad.
Taking the high moral ground versus scum like this will just allow them to win more eassily
and we are already in deep effluent because of it.
Turning the other cheek does not work if the other side does not possess a conscience.
"Ms Arani said there had been a failure to protect terrorist convicts. 'If we can't treat them as human beings in prison then it does not reflect well on our society,' she said."
What's this "we" business? Was he attacked by the prison guards or administrators?
This type of prison violence goes on all the time. I agree that it is wrong and everything possible should be done to stop it but not solely when it is directed against Muslims.
Here they go again, granting "special victim" status to Muslims.
Richard Littlejohn mentioned something in a recent column:
http://tinyurl.com/36mx7w
Richard Littlejohn
Minnie Ha-Ha's having a laugh in Cell Block H
22:09pm 30th July 2007
..."You may think this is a bit farfetched, but perhaps you missed the story over the weekend that the Home Office is considering building special prisons for Muslims, so that convicted terrorists don't have to mix with filthy infidels..."
Margaret Wente's column in yesterday's Globe & Mail is interesting, too:
http://tinyurl.com/37pjtj
In politics, thou shalt not offend
By MARGARET WENTE
Tuesday, July 31, 2007 – Page A13
..."Here's what troubles me. The bar for speech that is construed as hateful, harassing, bigoted or discriminatory is moving ever lower... There are many morals to this story, but here's one. These days, victims finish first."
If this terrorist can "seek compensation", then what about every other prisoner who has been abused by other prisoners? The courts couldn't keep up! The government would have to start housing each convict in a five-star hotel; it might be cheaper than the lawsuits!
Hmm I note that nobody is sticking up for the rights of "nonces" (prison slang for paedophiles) in prison.
They end up on permanent "lock up" and segregated from the entire prison population because everybody hates them ...
Now unless these lawyer types want to stick up for everyone who has a hard time in prison (poor little lambs) I suspect there is a little bit of "religious profiling" being carried out by these lawyer types in order to further a (not so) hidden agenda.
I repeat - unless these lawyer types are willing to stand up for all "mistreated prisoners" (don't do the crime if you can't stand the time) then they are showing a level of religious bigotry that is beyond comprehension. (I note also the number of vicars and priests that work with the worst of prisoners - often voluntary - with little expectation of reward or success)
Plain daft - as I have expressed it before "It's like planting an acorn and sitting there for 30 years while plaiting a rope into a noose"
leonthepigfarmer, wow I wonder what the other jihadists would say about him. I bet it would be, 'dead jihadist walking' if they got their hands on him.
And as for Gitmo - we should never close it. I only see it expanding. Tell the Democrats to house the freed ones next to them and their own, if they really want them released and see how fast nothing is done to pursue releasing those murdering thugs.
Hmm I note that nobody is sticking up for the rights of "nonces" (prison slang for paedophiles) in prison.
They end up on permanent "lock up" and segregated from the entire prison population because everybody hates them ...
Now unless these lawyer types want to stick up for everyone who has a hard time in prison (poor little lambs) I suspect there is a little bit of "religious profiling" being carried out by these lawyer types in order to further a (not so) hidden agenda.
I repeat - unless these lawyer types are willing to stand up for all "mistreated prisoners" (don't do the crime if you can't stand the time) then they are showing a level of religious bigotry that is beyond comprehension. (I note also the number of vicars and priests that work with the worst of prisoners - often voluntary - with little expectation of reward or success)
Plain daft - as I have expressed it before "It's like planting an acorn and sitting there for 30 years while plaiting a rope into a noose"
I apologise for posting the same comment twice - but there was a sql/php error (or something). Please delete the duplicate comment (and this one). Thanks in advance.
leonthepigfarmer-
I was calling it varients of Londonistan back in 1991, long before the book came out, having travelled in the U.K. at that time and been appalled by the obvious Islamo-colonization going on.
The book is useful, if the targeted idiots would read it.
There was still a death penalty for treason- or during wartime- in the U.K. until the Brits accepted the full European laws on capital punishment in October of 2003.
Bet they're happy about that decision after 7/7.
They should reassert their sovereignty and bring the death penalty back, as needed, to fight terrorism and treason.
Otherwise, a jihadist could vaporize London (istan) and get no more "punishment" than a lifetime supply of free Korans, gratis health care, complimentary lodging and halal vittles.
Not bad for annihilating millions.
I find the description "Dhiren Barot" objectionable and violating. This fellow converted to islam in his infinite wisdom, therefore ought to be described, treated accordingly.
His islamic name is "Abu Moosa Al Hindi" & also
"Abu Issa Al Brittany".
Thank you very much.
MisIslamist
Is it mindless mob justice? We are talking about prisons and inmates here not a bunch of worked up ratepayers, or aggrieved citizenry. You enter a jungle when you enter prison and tough if you cannot handle it.
Prisons aren't desert islands, they're government-run facilities. If they're jungles, it's only because people allow or choose them to be.
Taking the high moral ground versus scum like this will just allow them to win more eassily and we are already in deep effluent because of it. Turning the other cheek does not work if the other side does not possess a conscience.
You're presenting a false dilemma. Why would we have to choose between "turning the other cheek" and letting prisoners murder, rape and maim each other any way they see fit? Also, do you believe that all inmates, regardless of what they did or didn't do, should be subjected to violent anarchy? Would you accept such a fate if you were imprisoned?
Moral highground is one of the things that separates us from places like Iran and Pakistan.
Kaddafi extortion update:
Recall, Charles wondered if this might happen.Britain denies any such deal exists.
/nausea
'Its just unbelievable!! They aim to kill innocent people and when caught have the nerve to complain!!'
From a posting above.
They're innocent. They're only following their religion.
*
When Muslims accuse infidels of treating them 'just like the Nazi's treated the Jooozzz'- their biggest fans are the Jooozzz. The hated Jooozzz, the vilified arch-enemy of Muhammad, they swallow the Muslim victim propaganda hook line and sinker.
They see themselves, and their hearts go out to the 'prosecuted, discriminated, suffering' Muhammad worshippers.
Pamela from Atlas Shrugs made the same observasion just a day or two ago. The Joozzz are their own worst enemies.
Barot seems to have been the victim of an action usually reserved for the lowest of the low in any British prison (the sexual offenders)- according to John Mortimer, in his Rumpole of the Bailey books, it is known as "cocoa-ing the SO's" in which a scalding hot cup of cocoa is emptied over a sitting victim from behind, in the eating area. Usually this sort of treatment is reserved for a man who has, say, slept with a nine year old girl. SO's are usually put in a protective wing, away from the other prisoners, for their own safety - the other prisoners have the quaint habit of yelling "Beast!" whenever they see them. It would be ironic if the child molesters and Muslim terrorists found themselves habitually in each other's company in gaol - the latter could regale the former with tales of their prophet's marriage to Ayesha.
The lawyer Arani received a mention in a recent article by Michael Burleigh, the historian. He obviously takes a dim view of the influence of certain lawyers on the fight against terrorists,
I think that he makes some very good points.
----
"Lawyers sap our will to combat terrorism
We lack the toughness of our European neighbours
Michael Burleigh
Many jihadis seek to create a global caliphate, ruled by Sharia. At best, Christians, Hindus, and Jews would live in a state of submission tantamount to second-class citizenship. If they got above themselves, they would suffer the persecutions Islamists visited on the Coptic Christians of Egypt. The rule of Islamists has resulted in murderous chaos – 150,000 died in Algeria during the 1990s when madmen decided that most of the Muslim population were apostates. The Taleban anti-state so ruined Afghanistan that Americans joked that they had to bomb it forwards to the Stone Age. There are significant numbers of people living in Britain who wish to visit such chaos on us.
This is the backdrop to the debate about anti-terrorism legislation. As usual lawyers talk to lawyers, including those overrepresented in our political class. Overlooking that our greatest right is to life, civil libertarians are exercised about proposals to extend detention of suspects from 28 to 56 days.
Shami Chakrabarti, the barrister whom the BBC assiduously promotes as the voice of a presumed liberal consensus, will widen her Diana-like eyes in outrage, while Amnesty will mutter darkly about internment. Then we’ll hear from Gareth Peirce – the Provos’ and now the jihadis’ lawyer of choice – or her business rival Mudassur Arani, whose website advises Muslims how to deny cooperation with M15. Ms Arani was recently exercised by an attack on Dhiren Barot, the British al-Qaeda terrorist, by a fellow prison inmate. She wants jihadi prisoners all kept together, doubtless so that within ten minutes of such consolidation, she would be whining about a British Guantanamo, from where, say, Clive Stafford Smith, would soon relay lurid terrorist tales of torture to Channel 4 News.
Since activist lawyers routinely usurp a moral high ground vacated by a lazy liberalism, it seems almost vulgar to point out that at least one terrorist group – the Baader-Meinhof gang – was co-founded by a lawyer, Horst Mahler (nowadays a neo-Nazi), while Lynne Stewart, defence counsel to blind Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman, is serving a prison sentence for helping him to communicate from his prison cell with his Egyptian followers.
.....
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2148187.ece
A couple of thoughts:
#1 - "She" ? What's this Muslim woman doing, dealing with unrelated males? She's asking for stoning (well, maybe just a few dozen lashes if it's the first infraction. Allah is oft-compassionate, blah blah.)
#2 - Seems to me that even the criminals held in Britain's prisons have more patriotism than the fool government bureaucrats who keep allowing more and yet more Muslims into the country to plot terror and destruction.
Not often the news brings a smile to my face.
What goes around.....
I would think that terrorists who have received training in AQ terrorist training camps would be more then able to handle themselves in prison.They should not need to seek the protection of the infidel prison officials. I find it amusing that despite Barot's dreams of murdering thousands of infidels he ended up being no match for a common criminal armed only with hot cooking oil.It's also ironic that the maiming he received is similar to what Israels including teenagers and children have suffered at the the hands of Islamic terrorists.It's no secret that the terrorists are being targeted due to their attacks on infidel women and children.As there is honor even among thieves who do not wish to tolerate terrorists, rapists or pedophiles living among them. The solution is simple, if the terrorists want the attacks to stop they need to stop attacking infidel women and children.
Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.
BTW, so much the better if there is a muslim backlash. It will be another great reminder of they really stand for.
Posted by: Proud_Islamophobe
Well said.. I agree.. Birng It On.
As for the prisoners who are attacking the jihadists.. may they study Law and beciome judges when they get out!
Maybe we'll get some REAL sentencing.. including DEPORTATION ORDERS!
Sorry guys, but I got to disagree with most of the postings. Don’t get me wrong, its not that I have any sympathy for the bastard, before or after he got burnt by his fellow prisoners. Prison is a bad place, where bad things can happen which is why we all try to play by the rules and not end up there. But our societies correctly demand that the authorities make reasonable efforts that prisoners do not harm each other. Not that prisons will ever be warm cuddly safe places to sit and knit and drink tea, but not a blood soaked Mad Max free for all. The best example that I can think of is the recent American case of a priest who after being convicted of numerous cases of raping children was sentenced to life in prison. After a short time someone in the prison killed him. Again, no tears were shed by me over his , but I don’t want prisoners delivering their vigilante justice to whom they want when they want, that is why we have courts and police. Bottom line is if the prison authorities know that he is a target, he needs to be protected, not because we care at all what happens to him, but we need to protect our system of justice.
esquared
then throw that bastard barot in with the nonces where he belongs.
"I would think that terrorists who have received training in AQ terrorist training camps would be more then able to handle themselves in prison."
---------------------------
Have you actually seen footage of those camps? The training's a joke. They've obviously been watching army movies and are copying what they see. Their movements, their techniques are bloody amateurish - the actions of a bunch of overgrown kids playing soldier. Why is it that these "trained" terrorists fold up when they meet real soldiers? Because they're not really trained, they're just going through the motions and relying on Allah to do the rest.
As for the terrorists... no sympathy. Notice that robbers or murderers (not of children) go about relatively unmolested. Paedophiles and jihadis don't... I guess it's because their actions violate some code among prisoners that precludes crimes against children and treason. Just a thought.
holy wart
HA! i wrote a post exactly the same as yours but deleted it. ive seen those "amateur" training videos. pathethic.
and i agree, why are people defending terrorists in jail, im glad that at least some brits have the balls (albeit convicted crim) to stand up to these pathethic bastards.
>>
#1 - "She" ? What's this Muslim woman doing, dealing with unrelated males? She's asking for stoning (well, maybe just a few dozen lashes if it's the first infraction. Allah is oft-compassionate, blah blah.)
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse
Jailhouse justice. I love it. Why are they complaining? If allah had wanted them to be free they would be, wouldn't they? So allah must want them in jail. And if allah wants them dead.....
I have heard that they put sugar in the boiling water so that it sticks and causes more painful scalds. I really hope that the sugar supply is not diminished in the Prison after all we dont want them crying that their 'yuman rites' have been compromised by not having enough sugar for their breakfast cereals or tea and coffee.
Jesus Christ Supercop
>Prisons aren't desert islands, they're government-run facilities. If they're jungles, it's only because people allow or choose them to be.
Unless everyone is in solitary confinement there are always power groups within prisons, concentration camps, gulags whatever.
Even in locked cells there are stil cliques. Authorities do NOT control inmates with the gaol, inmates do. Authorities only stop egress.
>You're presenting a false dilemma. Why would we have to choose between "turning the other cheek" and letting prisoners murder, rape and >maim each other any way they see fit? Also, do you believe that all inmates, regardless of what they did or didn't do, should be subjected >to violent anarchy? Would you accept such a fate if you were imprisoned?
I am sorry but the only dilemma is your totally impractical view of the world. I agree with everything you say in theory but in practice it just isn't possible and even when conditions are improved in prisons it is the nondeserving who reap most of the benefits. Go work in one and see for yrself.
>Moral highground is one of the things that separates us from places like Iran and Pakistan.
Well this may sound funny but you are totally wrong. Most brainwashed muslims in Iran and Pakistan see themselves as spotlessly pure in their morality and they are only acting as we see, due to their fervent belief in the truth of the fact that we the west represent total evil. They actually believe in the good of their actions like many Nazis in WW2. However contradictory that may seem you have to judge them by their actions and their intentions not their reasons.
My point is that in dealing with people like this, you have to stoop to their level to beat them and it is the stupid ethics that you maintain(and I used them too, prebattlefield) that will finish us off totally. Why do you think that it was the USSR who beat germany in WW2 and not the allies? Because the allies could NOT handle the necessary casualties to do so, because they actually cared(about the votes that is). Had there been no germany vs USSR war Hitler would be a prophet like Muhammad and Nazism a religion like Islam.
I see only delayed justice for these scum and I have NO pity for them, any of them, in prison or without.That is the ONLY way that we will win.
The point to keep in mind in this story is the veiled threat that is being made by Ms Arani. It is obvious that she and her kind are looking for another reason to have rage boy on the front pages of the newspapers.
They will use any excuse to whip up a rage because this is all a part of their plan to bring about the Caliphate.
Alas there are not too many who are willing to believe that the world wide Caliphate underpins every act of rage that we have seen in recent years. It seems to me that too many people prefer to remain deaf to the truth about Islam and Jihadists.
JC Supercop is indulging in his own false dilemna. It is not anarchy in prison. The prisoners have a pretty fair sense of (rough) justice, and one lot they go after without fail are child molesters (in fact they give them the boiling water treatment if the opportunity arises). Looks like they've just added a new category.
Everything will be repaid to the last farthing. Ouch!
If what's happened to Barot & co. causes just one potential jihadist to change their mind and decide not to plan an attack then surely this must be a good thing overall?
The prospect of pain and suffering concentrates the mind. That's why torture works. People are reluctant to criticise or lampoon Islam in public because they know what might happen to them.
In the West the law is generally on our side if we are physically attacked by a Muslim who is outraged by our exercising the right to free speech. But the law doesn't mend broken limbs, take away pain or bring people back from the dead. That's why Robert doesn't tell anyone where he lives.
Pim Fortuyn and Theo van Gogh paid the ultimate price for speaking out against Islam. Their murderers got long prison sentences but the victims are no less dead.
Plotting jihad at your keyboard is easy. A 30 year stretch in prison surrounded by those who loathe you and would cause you pain if they got the chance is not.
The attack on Barot could prove to be a better counter-jihad measure than thousands of MI5 operatives.
More on Dhiren Barot's legal advisor (and others like her) in this excellent Times-on-Line piece by Michael Burleigh. Sounds like she's the UK alter-ego of US jailed lawyer to blind sheik jihaddists Lynne Stewart:
"This is the backdrop to the debate about anti-terrorism legislation. As usual lawyers talk to lawyers, including those overrepresented in our political class. Overlooking that our greatest right is to life, civil libertarians are exercised about proposals to extend detention of suspects from 28 to 56 days.
Shami Chakrabarti, the barrister whom the BBC assiduously promotes as the voice of a presumed liberal consensus, will widen her Diana-like eyes in outrage, while Amnesty will mutter darkly about internment. Then we’ll hear from Gareth Peirce – the Provos’ and now the jihadis’ lawyer of choice – or her business rival Mudassur Arani, whose website advises Muslims how to deny cooperation with M15. Ms Arani was recently exercised by an attack on Dhiren Barot, the British al-Qaeda terrorist, by a fellow prison inmate. She wants jihadi prisoners all kept together, doubtless so that within ten minutes of such consolidation, she would be whining about a British Guantanamo, from where, say, Clive Stafford Smith, would soon relay lurid terrorist tales of torture to Channel 4 News."
Read the whole thing:
Lawyers sap our will to combat terrorism:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2148187.ece
A Nonny Mouse
#2 - Seems to me that even the criminals held in Britain's prisons have more patriotism than the fool government bureaucrats who keep allowing more and yet more Muslims into the country to plot terror and destruction.
Oh, please. Because some rapist, murderer or thug pours scalding hot liquid on a Muslim terrorist, he's suddenly some sort of patriotic hero fighting for Queen and Country?
Roxane
As there is honor even among thieves who do not wish to tolerate terrorists, rapists or pedophiles living among them.
You mean the same "thieves" who kill, maim and rape each other whenever they feel like it? How honorable, how noble. They'd probably rape and mug you without a second thought if given the chance.
MisIslamist
I am sorry but the only dilemma is your totally impractical view of the world. I agree with everything you say in theory but in practice it just isn't possible and even when conditions are improved in prisons it is the nondeserving who reap most of the benefits. Go work in one and see for yrself.
You're still presenting a false dilemma and trying to change the subject won't make it go away. I also like the way you refuse to answer my question: would you accept such a fate if you were imprisoned? It seems that you are more than willing to support violent anarchy as long as you can keep a comfortable distance from it.
Well this may sound funny but you are totally wrong. Most brainwashed muslims in Iran and Pakistan see themselves as spotlessly pure in their morality and they are only acting as we see, due to their fervent belief in the truth of the fact that we the west represent total evil.
So because they view themselves as spotlessly pure, it means that we cannot have the moral highground? It sounds to me like you believe in moral relativism.
My point is that in dealing with people like this, you have to stoop to their level to beat them and it is the stupid ethics that you maintain(and I used them too, prebattlefield) that will finish us off totally.
Explain to me why it is imperative that we must use terrorist tactics and abandon all semblance of law and order in order to beat terrorists. Are you sure you're not simply trying to justify your own psychotic tendencies?
Brett_McS
JC Supercop is indulging in his own false dilemna. It is not anarchy in prison. The prisoners have a pretty fair sense of (rough) justice, and one lot they go after without fail are child molesters (in fact they give them the boiling water treatment if the opportunity arises). Looks like they've just added a new category.
Well I'm terribly sorry if I believe in a well-regulated society where a justice system punishes offenders without the use of torture and random acts of violence. The double standards here are mind-boggling: people whine about the inhumanity of Jihadists and Muslim societies, but moments later they're supporting torture and anarchy in their own countries. In principle you aren't much different from the Jihadists.
I wonder if you would be willing to let these prisoners run and police society. After all, they have a pretty fair sense of justice. What could possibly go wrong? Everyone knows that gangs of violent thugs are excellent at fostering a peaceful and fair society. Just look at Africa.
They deserve to be thrown in with the violent offenders... I hope they are treated like pedophiles and the Paul Bernardo's in prison. No protective custody for Muslim terrorists!
They should be proud to suffer so for Allah.
- Mike Trivisonno, 2007
Jihadis and their leaders say all the time that they "love death", so I don't have a problem with them being being required to live with people who want to give them what they "love".Jihadis who decide they'd rather live then die have the option to join the pedophiles in protective custody.
Hopefully, muslims will not to see the prisons for what they are. A really good place for us non-muslims to round them up and keep an eye on them. Kinda like internment camps.
It is also good for us that muslims willingly segaregate themselves from the non-muslims. At first it seems like a good idea but it just means they are easier to keep an eye on.
It is the distributed, diffuse muslim community that needs more attention. The ones that live quiet lives, seemingly remomved from the Ummah. This ephemeral quality can lead to some startling consequences for us non-muslims.
Doctor Mohammed to the Burn Unit.
Doctor Mohammed to the Burn Unit.
Jesus Christ supercop???
You're still presenting a false dilemma and trying to change the subject won't make it go away. I also like the way you refuse to answer >my question: would you accept such a fate if you were imprisoned? It seems that you are more than willing to support violent anarchy as >long as you can keep a comfortable distance from it.
Sorry to say this but you have made it personal: Get off yr high horse and LIVE on the planet earth. You obviously have NO IDEA about conditions on most of the planet and come out with liberal loving christian rubbish. There is NO anarchy in prisons in the west saying that there is shows total ignorance. I wont have such a fate as I do not molest children and I do NOT try to kill innocent civilians. Have you every worked in a prison? I have so,please do not speak from ignorance about your hypothetical dilemmas.
>So because they view themselves as spotlessly pure, it means that we cannot have the moral highground? It sounds to me like you believe in >moral relativism.
When will you find it in your head to realise that we have a very serious war on our hands and one that most politicians refuse to admit to. Currently we are losing this war, on the military,on the economic and the propaganda fronts. We are doing so because of the one thing that makes western society: our altruistic christian pacifism which has made this world what it is today(the good parts that is). We try to treat everyone decently but it is NOT reciprocated by our enemy who has no qualms in using any device to hurt us.
You have obviously never seen war otherwise you would never come out with this sort of garbage. You MUST drop your christian views in warfare otherwise all the good that christianity has brought will be washed away in the islamic avalanche. I see no problem here as after victory we can resume our welldefended standards. Morals ARE relative to the situation on hand and if you do not believe this you must have had a very sheltered life. Moral certainty is a luxury in a war. you must KILL people to win wars or haven't you yet worked that out?
>Explain to me why it is imperative that we must use terrorist tactics and abandon all semblance of law and order in order to beat >terrorists. Are you sure you're not simply trying to justify your own psychotic tendencies?
I am sorry but you are the one with delusions and hence far more likely to be psychotic.
I am not advocating that we all encourage prisoners to do such hurts to Muslim terrosrist and they wouldn't even if we could.
But as the sentences seem, to me and to them, to be far too lenient, then if the prisoners wish to ensure proper justice, too bad!!
Law and Order!! What rubbish!! Go work in a prison or get of yr backside and serve in combat and see how yr viewpoint changes.
I can just see you now stopping at a red light in downtown Sarajevo during sniper week.
You TRY to maintain yr moral standards but you must adapt to the situation or else and moral standards are far different in prisons and in war to those you hold so dear.
"They deserve to be thrown in with the violent offenders... I hope they are treated like pedophiles and the Paul Bernardo's in prison. No protective custody for Muslim terrorists!"
Posted by: The Resistance
The Resistance -- Paul Bernardo *is* in protective custody.
And his perverted, incestuous, murderous accomplice (wife) served her full sentence, was released with no parole, and is now living happily ever after in Quebec with her boyfriend and new baby.
*spit*
"...I believe in a well-regulated society where a justice system punishes offenders without the use of torture and random acts of violence..."
Jesus Christ Supercop -- Me, too.
Quote:""...I believe in a well-regulated society where a justice system punishes offenders without the use of torture and random acts of violence..."
This is something to strive for as we will NEVER have it IF Islam wins.
So the real point is: are you willing to fight for it? And if so then how?
JCSC would it make it easier on you if we had the death penalty for ALL acts of terorism? Then it would be all nice and legal.
MisIslamist
Sorry to say this but you have made it personal: Get off yr high horse and LIVE on the planet earth. You obviously have NO IDEA about conditions on most of the planet and come out with liberal loving christian rubbish. There is NO anarchy in prisons in the west saying that there is shows total ignorance.
What does it matter what kind of conditions exist outside the West? We're not talking about third world countries, we're talking about the UK. Once again you are trying to change the subject.
If there's no anarchy in prisons then how do you explain the vigilante justice? And why did you say earlier that prisons are like a jungle? When I think of a jungle I certainly get mental images of a place without any law, order or civilization.
I wont have such a fate as I do not molest children and I do NOT try to kill innocent civilians. Have you every worked in a prison? I have so,please do not speak from ignorance about your hypothetical dilemmas.
In many US prisons you don't need to be a child molester in order to get raped on a daily basis. You only need to be weak and/or outnumbered. I'm less familiar with UK prisons but I have no reason to believe that they, or any other prisons elsewhere, are populated by noble knights in shining armor who only punish the really evil ones because they have some kind of code of honor.
And what's so hypothetical about your false dilemma? You said that we either "turn the other cheek" or treat prisoners with brutality and violence.
When will you find it in your head to realise that we have a very serious war on our hands and one that most politicians refuse to admit to. Currently we are losing this war, on the military,on the economic and the propaganda fronts. We are doing so because of the one thing that makes western society: our altruistic christian pacifism which has made this world what it is today(the good parts that is). We try to treat everyone decently but it is NOT reciprocated by our enemy who has no qualms in using any device to hurt us.
Unfortunately none of this means we have to torture imprisoned terrorists. There's absolutely no benefit in doing so, unless you can explain how. You are using the conflict with Islam as an excuse to justify pointless torture and brutality.
When I said that we must maintain a moral highground I didn't mean that we should be altruistic Christian pacifists towards our enemies.
You have obviously never seen war otherwise you would never come out with this sort of garbage.
And you are obviously under the illusion that this has something to do with war. You are also appealing to emotion ("I've been in a war/claim to have been in one so don't come to me with this nonsense!!111" etc.).
Morals ARE relative to the situation on hand and if you do not believe this you must have had a very sheltered life.
I was talking about moral relativism in the sense that there's no right and wrong because every culture has its own values which are all equal. That's what you seemed to be suggesting when you said that we can't have the moral highground because Islamic terrorists also believe they have the moral highground.
Moral certainty is a luxury in a war. you must KILL people to win wars or haven't you yet worked that out?
I think you might actually be mentally imbalanced. We aren't even talking about a war and you're already explaining to me how it's imperative to kill people in wars even though I've never said or suggested otherwise.
Law and Order!! What rubbish!! Go work in a prison or get of yr backside and serve in combat and see how yr viewpoint changes.
Well I'd love to serve in combat but unfortunately I don't live in a country that's currently engaged in a war. Not that it matters, since it's completely irrelevant in this case.
You rambled a lot about war (THIS IS SPARTAAAA!!111!) and other emotional things, but you haven't really given any real reasons for your opinions. As far as I can see you simply enjoy making people suffer and don't care a lot about morality, but you need some sort of justification for your views like pretending there's a war going on.
JCSC would it make it easier on you if we had the death penalty for ALL acts of terorism? Then it would be all nice and legal.
I don't support the death penalty. Not because it's immoral, but because people have been executed only to be found innocent later on. This has happened many times and will continue to happen. A prison sentence can be suspended and the wrongfully imprisoned person freed, but the death penalty is permanent.
>What does it matter what kind of conditions exist outside the West? We're not talking about third world countries, we're talking about the UK.
The primary reference was about the UK but it is a general topic, applicable everywhere.
>If there's no anarchy in prisons then how do you explain the vigilante justice? And why did you say earlier that prisons are like a jungle? When I think of a jungle I certainly get mental images of a place without any law, order or civilization.
There is structure and order in the jungle and there is similar in prison. Anarchy implies no order. Again you write from ignorance of the true conditions in prisons.
>In many US prisons you don't need to be a child molester in order to get raped on a daily basis. You only need to be weak and/or outnumbered. I'm less familiar with UK prisons but I have no reason to believe that they, or any other prisons elsewhere, are populated by noble knights in shining armor who only punish the really evil ones because they have some kind of code of honor.
I do not dispute that at all and it is dreadful that it occurs to the weak and the outnumbered especially as those are often the ones who least deserve to be incarcerated. But how do you suggest this be stopped? There is very little nobility in prisons but there IS a sense of justice especially to those who threaten the country. Strangely enough most “cons” see themselves as patriots.
>And what's so hypothetical about your false dilemma? You said that we either "turn the other cheek" or treat prisoners with brutality and violence.
Because the violence inflicted on these terrorists is not official and it is metered out by the powers within the prison. I also NEVER said that. You cannot win wars without violence and not all the violence is controlled and condoned whereas you expect it to be so which is not only idealistic it is naïve.
.>There's absolutely no benefit in doing so, unless you can explain how. You are using the conflict with Islam as an excuse to justify pointless torture and brutality.
Specious rubbish: where have I said that I condone this generally? You jump from a UK prison to a general situation then you blame me. I cannot say that I support the concept of torture at all generally, but I am certain that there are times when it is a lesser evil than not doing so. e.g. if I knew where there was a nuclear weapon about to explode and kill 3 million, would you torture me to find out where it was? Or would your white conscience sit back and condemn them all to death?
>When I said that we must maintain a moral highground I didn't mean that we should be altruistic Christian pacifists towards our enemies.
Okay I agree with that but you damn near implied it.
>And you are obviously under the illusion that this has something to do with war. You are also appealing to emotion ("I've been in a war/claim to have been in one so don't come to me with this nonsense!!111" etc.).
To me a terrorist is a combatant out of uniform and IMHO should be shot. However, I am against death penalties (for the same reasons as you) in peacetime. But we are actually at war, in fact, if not officially and in war death penalties are common so that problem is solved in my view.
As for “appealing to the emotions”, please use your intelligence there as the point was made to show your inexperience with its necessities as is clearly shown by yr response to it.
>I was talking about moral relativism in the sense that there's no right and wrong because every culture has its own values which are all equal. That's what you seemed to be suggesting when you said that we can't have the moral highground because Islamic terrorists also believe they have the moral highground.
I was pointing out to you that both sides always assume that they are on the side of good and that the only difference was in the way this good was expressed. When one side makes no allowance for civilians, innocents or the international rules of warfare then, IMHO they abrogate their own rights totally. I would not allow a captured uniformed POW to be ill-treated but I would treat a non-uniformed one like the criminal that he /she is.
>I think you might actually be mentally imbalanced. We aren't even talking about a war and you're already explaining to me how it's imperative to kill people in wars even though I've never said or suggested otherwise.
I don’t think that you have the slightest clue about the whole subject including psychoses but as it seems to make you happy saying so go ahead. I cannot make such an individual judgment on you as you are simply performing to the limits of your liberal mold and virtually all of your statements verify this. As to your mental state I cannot comment although naivety and arrogance come to mind.
>Well I'd love to serve in combat but unfortunately I don't live in a country that's currently engaged in a war. Not that it matters, since it's completely irrelevant in this case.
Hmm I have heard that one before. Why not be a volunteer abroad or a medecin sans frontieres etc. Try the other side for a change. You might then wake up.
As far as I am concerned this IS a war and if you refuse to see that, then it is not my problem but yrs.
>You rambled a lot about war (THIS IS SPARTAAAA!!111!) and other emotional things, but you haven't really given any real reasons for your opinions. As far as I can see you simply enjoy making people suffer and don't care a lot about morality, but you need some sort of justification for your views like pretending
>I have given my reason several times but you persist in ignoring it which really shows the value of your reasoning and you seem so intent upon attacking me personally and in making gross generalizations that all you are doing is undermining what limited credibility you have left here.
People like you are so predictable it makes me wonder why we even bother to answer you.
When you grow up and stop making personal comments I might bother to answer you again although going by your specious reasoning, your ignoring of relevant points and your general attitude problem I doubt that it will be worth the effort.
People like you are part of the problem not the solution.
The primary reference was about the UK but it is a general topic, applicable everywhere.
So? I still don't see how it matters that third world country X has poor conditions. What's the connection or relevance?
There is structure and order in the jungle and there is similar in prison. Anarchy implies no order. Again you write from ignorance of the true conditions in prisons.
No, there isn't man-made structure and order in the jungle. If you support the idea of prisoners exacting revenge or some sort of misguided "justice" on each other then you are supporting anarchy. A justice system is order, a bunch of thugs doing what they want is not.
But how do you suggest this be stopped?
Increased isolation of prisoners from each other, increased monitoring and security, possibly permanent solitary confinement for serious offenders... maybe separate prisons or wings for violent offenders and others. But it's really not my job to figure these things out.
There is very little nobility in prisons but there IS a sense of justice especially to those who threaten the country. Strangely enough most “cons” see themselves as patriots.
Yeah, whatever.
You cannot win wars without violence and not all the violence is controlled and condoned whereas you expect it to be so which is not only idealistic it is naïve.
Still talking about this imaginary war of yours, I see.
Specious rubbish: where have I said that I condone this generally?
"This is war, everything goes! Tough shit if you can't handle it!" seems to be your attitude.
You jump from a UK prison to a general situation then you blame me.
I didn't jump to a general situation.
but I am certain that there are times when it is a lesser evil than not doing so. e.g. if I knew where there was a nuclear weapon about to explode and kill 3 million, would you torture me to find out where it was? Or would your white conscience sit back and condemn them all to death?
Again you bring up completely irrelevant shit to distract me.
As for “appealing to the emotions”, please use your intelligence there as the point was made to show your inexperience with its necessities as is clearly shown by yr response to it.
My inexperience with something that's completely irrelevant.
I was pointing out to you that both sides always assume that they are on the side of good and that the only difference was in the way this good was expressed. When one side makes no allowance for civilians, innocents or the international rules of warfare then, IMHO they abrogate their own rights totally. I would not allow a captured uniformed POW to be ill-treated but I would treat a non-uniformed one like the criminal that he /she is.
I'm sure this is terribly relevant to treating prisoners during peace time.
I don’t think that you have the slightest clue about the whole subject including psychoses but as it seems to make you happy saying so go ahead.
When you're on the Internet long enough you start to identify mentally imbalanced people pretty quickly.
I cannot make such an individual judgment on you as you are simply performing to the limits of your liberal mold and virtually all of your statements verify this. As to your mental state I cannot comment although naivety and arrogance come to mind.
Hahahahahahaha. Liberal? That's the funniest thing I've heard all week, and I've heard a lot of funny things this week.
Hmm I have heard that one before. Why not be a volunteer abroad or a medecin sans frontieres etc. Try the other side for a change. You might then wake up.
You're still appealing to completely irrelevant shit, and now you're trying to argue that I can't possibly know anything about anything because I haven't [insert random and meaningless activity here]. You truly are the master of the irrelevant.
As far as I am concerned this IS a war and if you refuse to see that, then it is not my problem but yrs.
Really? Are there troops marching on the streets of London? Are the POW camps being set up?
your ignoring of relevant points
Can't ignore something that isn't there to begin with.
People like you are part of the problem not the solution.
Ah, so counter-Jihad is now part of the problem of Jihad. What should we be doing instead? Throwing boiling water on inmates?
I can't speak for UK prisons, but in the US there is an attempt to segregate prisoners based on types of crimes, length of sentance, etc. But regardless of what slot you end up in, you will find yourself around people you know you better keep your eye on. One of the most common phrases I heard there was "...you lost your civil rights when you broke the law". Me being a young white man, I'm just guessing that blacks, mexicans, jihadis and otherwise are told the same thing. I hope they were... :| .. Anyway, my point is, there are hardly enough resources to fill shifts in our prisons, let alone devote special attention to poor jihadis to make sure they don't suffer the same tortures the rest of us had to watch out for. Someone above said something like .. let it serve as a warning to potential jihadis, there is no waiting for you in prison...
...there is no love waiting for you in prison..
Sorry
As-Sal?mu `Alaykum
greetings,
this is not naseem,
no this is leon the pig farmer's 2 cents worth to how we should treat islamic prisoner's within the confines of prison in the united kingdom.
i think that all jihadists and muslim terrorists should be seperated within prisons. no i think they should have their own open air prisons. so they can walk around, stretch their legs, play "soccer". but as punishment they should be able to see the real prison from afar and know that if they broke any laws within jail they would be sent back there with the real evil crims.
so anyway, they need their own open cells, unlocked of course. breakfast at 8.30am - 1030am (so it wont interrupt morning prayers). then after brekkie or prayers they can wash or whatever in their own private jaccuzi, we will have each "cell" assigned a servant i mean a warden to wash their backs etc and provide clean humane laundry services.
lunch consists of halal foods, cooked by master ritz chef mssr puto of paris. paid for by the ungrateful tax payers of londonistan.
after a leisurely stroll around the open fields, streams and beautiful english countryside, guests will be invited to the "al-ahambra" style library when they can read any book they wish, from mein kampf to the koran (pbup).
we will have special guests making speeches, such as cat stevens, tony blair and salman rushdie.
but we'll keep the "72 virgin" palace a secret? just think "hugh hefner, nudge nudge wink wink and you'll never want to leave this punishing "prison".
lastly, all guests are tucked up in bed with complimentary jim jams, snuggly blankets and rest their heads and pure bodies on memory foam. or they can enjoy the pleasent company of a local girl, un raped from local islamic drug dealers, hand kidnapped from the streets of bradford, leeds or any once proud working class city. or they may indulge in the pleasures of your man servant.
good night. kiss
(CAIR - please note that these are the written words of "leon the pig farmer" and not the opinions of robert spencer or the jihad watch team. who will prolly delete this insane posting anyway)
It seems like "Instant Karma".
Not sure why the UK would be surprised about this. Prisoners have often had special groups they went after. It isn't easy to keep everyone safe. The public is CLUELESS in general about what goes on in the prison system.
I think a jihadist must get the death penalty..problem solved. UK will bring on it's own demise if it doesn't see the light soon.
wow jesuschristsupercop is on this site too? I watched him get banned from another site..I see he hasn't changed one bit....not one bit :P .
What are you talking about, Highrise? The redneck bible-thumpers of LGF threatened me with a ban, but I left the site and haven't even visited it since.
And what do you mean "he hasn't changed one bit"?
leonthepigfarmer:
LOL!
TheOmegaman: "They must be keeping the chiropractors busy," you crack me up. Pardon the pun.