And Hooper says opinions differ among Muslims about whether or not they can practice polygamy in the United States. He doesn't mention U.S. law. By Maryclaire Dale for The Associated Press (thanks to Doctor Bulldog):
PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A Muslim man who had taken a second wife in Morocco earlier this year was shot to death in his bed on the day he was to travel there, and his first wife has not been ruled out as his killer, authorities said Tuesday.Jereleigh Morton's first wife, Myra, told police she chased the intruder who shot him Sunday in their $1 million suburban home. But police found no signs of a break-in and focused their attention on the victim's marriages after reading Myra Morton's diaries.
Her 47-year-old husband was shot twice, at least once in the head. A gun holster was found on a dresser, and a handgun was outside a sliding glass door that leads from the bedroom to the yard.
No charges have been filed, but police took cheek swabs from Myra Morton to compare to DNA found at the scene, court papers show....
Myra Morton, 47, had reluctantly agreed to her husband's second marriage and even traveled to Morocco this year to sanction it under Muslim law, authorities said. Prosecutors, however, think her husband may have married the other woman — a woman in her 20s whom he met on the Internet — even earlier than Myra knew.
"We're working under the theory that she sort of approved it after the fact," Castor said. "I think there was discussion, and she felt pressured into agreeing to allow it."...
Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said that a minority of Muslims take second wives, and that Islamic scholars would differ on whether one could do so while living in the United States.
Do they, now? And what about American law? Do opinions differ about whether or not it allows bigamy, Ibrahim?
The Mortons converted to Islam about 20 years ago. They lived in a small city row house until reportedly receiving an $8 million medical malpractice settlement in 2005 over their teenage daughter's death, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported. The girl, who died in 2001, had Crohn's disease.
.....it has been said by many: "Women should never convert to Islam, and they should never marry Muslim men" ....wise words, indeed....
Why should Muslims follow US law when Muslims are Muslims first?
Another reason to ban Islam in the West.
I thought you guys were supposed to uphold your constitution no matter what religion you were.
Islam doesnt recognize the US Constituion
Whether one supports the idea or not, same-sex marriages will change the structure of marriage in different ways. Bigamy will eventually have to be allowed; after all, several religions sanction it already. Of course, not all of the new forms of marriage will please Mr. Hooper. One wife with four husbands probably is not to be found in Islamic law.
Another thing to thank lawyers for. Idiotic medical malpractise suits.
Polygamy is such an evil for women. Read about how it affect's women's mental, physical, and spiritual health in ex-Muslim Nonie Darwish's book, "Now They Call Me Infidel."
Islamists and Mormons practice polygamy. Because of that, and because of many other reasons concerning these two "religions," I have no respect for either of them.
And, I don't have to! You listening, Doug Hooper?
Hey, an honor killing in reverse!
Meanwhile, I feel sorry for the daughter. Crohn's disease is awful.
Robet,
Yes, opinions differ between "waiting until we are strong enough to take over" and "jihaaaaad!"
1 down about a billion to go.
No matter what people erroneously think or believe, the First Amendment's 'Free Exercise Clause' does not permit any and all religious practices.
Polygamy is one specific example.
I think Polygamy is a WONDERFUL idea!!! I think every woman should have four husbands! (sarc off) If these muslim men could see how degrading polygamy is, they would think twice about allowing it. But then, given this is a FREE country, if women did one day agree to it with the inclusion of the above scenerio, I don't think men would like the idea of competing with 4 men.
Personally, given my freedom and independence as a woman, I say: "Whats good for the goose is good for the gander"
I hope Myra's happy now about her conversion. Had she not joined the cult of polygamy she would not be in trouble now. Only idiots do the conversion to perversion.
"Personally, given my freedom and independence as a woman, I say: "Whats good for the goose is good for the gander"
Posted by: tblab"
I think a better way to say it is: "I'd rather be the meat than the bread."
Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said that a minority of Muslims take second wives, and that Islamic scholars would differ on whether one could do so while living in the United States.
======================
Some Islamic scholars believe that the current demographic deployment of Muslims in the United States does not yet support an aggressive push in this direction, others believe that for just this reason, aggressive demographic conquest by Muslims should be maintained regardless of the opinion of the Kaffir.
It's about time we started hearing stories like this. It is completely unnatural for any woman to live in this way. When we get married we want to be the focus of our husband's attention, not one in the pack. The Muslim way says that it was A-OK that this guy was fooling around on the internet, made a connection (in more ways than one) and used that joke called Islamic law to shove the idea down his wife's throat. (It is so obvious that a guy made up this "religion".)
This woman is a very smart cookie, though. She killed him over here and lucky for her she is subject to U.S. law and not the misgonystic/masochistic Sharia that Doug Hooper dearly loves. She'll probably get a very short sentence that will be further reduced for emotional suffering (you'll want to get right on that, Gloria Alred,) and with time off for good behavior, she'll be out in less than ten. She can start a Christian prison ministry to help other Muslimas who've snapped work there way back from the dark side.
A woman will only put up with so much. Perhaps Muslim men are right to be afraid of the power of women. This was probably the only correct response from a woman born in America who then converted to Islam. And marrying a second wife is just the ticket to break the spell that causes a Muslim woman to tell herself she is honored and has so many rights living inside of Islam.
on what basis do we accept same-sex marriages and not polygamy?
given the threat from islam and given what we know of how marriages and civility tend to fall apart, i don't know a good alternative to returning to the judeo-christian ideal of righteousness, as supported by custom and law.
Is it a tiny minority?
We are witnessing the "Balkanization" of the US.
Our leadership is allowing unlimited immigration (invasion) from Mexico, and the islamization of our laws...is anybody out there?
interestinconundrum - yes, we are out here.
Things they will never say (part 1):
"Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, condemned the practice of polygamy but said that Islamic scholars would differ on whether one could do so while living in the United States. We at CAIR, on the other hand, condemn polygamy unequivocally. It is immoral."
It seems to me slightly incongruous that any soi-disant civil-rights activists could condone the practice of polygamy. I think someone should ask Mr Hooper and his other Saudi-funded friends at CAIR.
No matter what people erroneously think or believe, the First Amendment's 'Free Exercise Clause' does not permit any and all religious practices.
Polygamy is one specific example.
Posted by: PRCS
Human sacrifice is another, which makes the Aztec religion illegal, and in a sane country, would also make islam illegal. Certainly islam advocates and approves all sorts of killing.
Well, the Mormons did practice polygamy and have never removed it from "Doctrines and Covenant"...........and there are those fruitcakes in Colorado City........there are polygamists here and there "hidden" in plain site.
But you can see that without a woman's choice or rights in the matter, polygamy is used in Colorado City and the Moslem world to enslave, punish and suppress women.
In this case, I think that the message is - it would be wise for polygamists everywhere to lock up the handguns.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (aka Mormons) do not practice polygamy, nor has it been practiced in close to 120 years (since 1890 and it was dropped as a condition of Utah's entry into the United States due to a law that made it illegal), The Church excommunicates those who practice it. It's only splinter groups who have no official affiliation nor access to LDS Temples such as the one led by Warren Jeffs that perpetuate the practice.
I could list example after example of how polygamy was primarily used to care for the widows of migrations or husbands lost to persecution, but a little research on your parts will be just as convincing.
The fact of the matter is that Mormon polygamy is reviled by Mormons, accepted as history, and left in the history books. There is no muslim equivalent of universal condemnation of those who practice it, nor barring of those individuals from taking part in "regular" mosque activities.
Darcy it's a faulty comparison and you should know it.
Yankeedoodle,
I hope they try it here, especially the naturalized citizens as it is a good ground to deport them.
Cheers,
Karl
We are witnessing the "Balkanization" of the US.
Our leadership is allowing unlimited immigration (invasion) from Mexico, and the islamization of our laws...is anybody out there?
by: interestinconundrum August 8, 2007 11:57 AM
interestinconundrum - yes, we are out here.
by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses August 8, 2007 12:02 PM
- - - - -
Yes, but the "we" who are out here reading and understanding this are not in Washington DC. There's "something in the water" there in Washington that causes humans to disregard everything except money and power. Patriotism evaporates. Intelligence diminishes. Multinational corporations and their dreams of globalization become irresistably intoxicating. National security and the common weal are dismissed as irrelevant. The Constitution is just another piece of paper to be disregarded.
If we ever had an earthquake on the east coast and somehow Washington DC (with all its occupants) were to fall into the Atlantic, this country would be vastly improved. (IMHO)
If polygamy is reviled by Mormons, why hasn't it been removed from "Doctrines and Covenants"?
I love that the Moroccan wife, already wedded and bedded, gets not a dime of those millions.
Gets nothing at all, in fact.
If polygamy is reviled by Mormons, why hasn't it been removed from "Doctrines and Covenants"?
Posted by: tanstaafl [TypeKey Profile Page] at August 8, 2007 3:56 PM
Why hasn't Paul's instructions that women not speak in church been removed from the Corinthians? In fact why haven't large portions of Pauls 1st and 2nd epistles to the Corinthians been removed for being sexist? Why does Deuternomy still advocate selling your children into bondage to pay off debts?
If nothing else it provides a historical reference that yes, at one time this was practiced. Social circumstances at the time (see what I wrote above) ensured that in that manner widows would be cared for. Also if you dig a bit deeper, Joseph Smith was asking a question of "why." Why, when the Book of Mormon and most of the Bible are clearly opposed to plural marriage was it permitted for Abraham, Jacob, David, Solomon, etc. It is divine revelation, but it is no longer necessary socially (with government programs, church welfare systems), spiritually (no longer a shortage of men to be sealed to in the Temples), or for any legal reason (and is in fact illegal) in a church that very staunchly advocates following the laws where you reside.
You might as well ask given the very strong requirements in the D&C why we don't send missionaries to China or muslim countries. Where proselytizing isn't allowed by law, missionaries don't go to convert people.
Getting back on topic, you can clearly see that muslim organizations place no respect for any host nation laws in their reasoning either for or against polygamy, whereas even in the LDS church in places where it is legal, it still isn't permitted by the church.
morguerat -
Indeed, why aren't those objective verses removed from the Bible? Or the Torah? Or the Qu'ran?
My point would be that literalism in any religion is an issue that immediately brings that religion's followers in conflict with modernity.
My point would also be that the nut cases in Colorado City point to D&C and claim that they are "true" followers of Joseph Smith (whose wife (the first one) objected to the practice of "celestial families).
Just as the nut cases in Islam point to the Qu'ran as a justification of the inhuman acts they commit on both Muslims and infidels.
Just as the nut case in Pensacola, FL used the Bible to justify murdering a docter and a member of my church on their way to an abortion clinic.
There is something wrong when someone claims that words on a piece of paper are more important than a human life.
But the nutcases in Colorado City and the Jeff's "colony" in Texas fail a key litmus test of doctrine, one which we(LDS) can point to and say you are seriously flawed, the twelfth Article of Faith written by Joseph Smith himself, We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law
The "nutcases" are in clear violation of that basic rule, and it has no corollary in islam which dictates that islam and sharia dominate and subjugate any other form of government. It's as with islam, refuting ideology with the teachings of that same belief structure. Nowhere in the LDS Church does it teach or advocate plural marriage as a practice to be continued in this day and age.
morguerat -
Quoting scripture to literalists is playing their game. They will find a conflicting scripture to contradict yours. It's a zero sum game.
Every religion has literalists (although Buddhism would seem to be a tough fit), Islam has only literalists and a death penalty for those who question whether the Qu'ran is, indeed, the word of God.
A Palestine teacher recently told his class that the Qu'ran should be read metaphorically. His students tossed him out a second story window.
Aldous Huxley once wrote "Give us each day our daily faith, but deliver us, O Lord, from belief."
morguerat,
Peter and the apostles where forbidden by the Jewish Authorities to proselytize. Christians under Nero were forbidden to proselytize. Should they have obeyed the authorities?
I doubt many Mormons would do the required LDS missionary work like Christians in Iran and China do if it meant death, torture, or jail time. I've meet many Mormons, and it's more like a social club than a religion.
In fact, what if the law required you to convert to Islam? What then?
Or if the authorities told you that you had to send your child to an Islamic school to be brainwashed into jihad (i.e. like Muslims do to Christian in the West Bank)
What if the ruler of a country demanded that you leave or convert to Islam? (this happend once in Egypt) Would you do that? Or try to fight it?
Your argument is really flawed. Think about it.
Tanstaafl: I prefer the quote from Dogma:
"Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant. "
But it amounts to the same thing.
Non-redneck
re the apostles: apples and oranges really, the church goes where it is permitted and provides aid where it is not (tsunami assistance packets, earthquake survival kits in pakistan, etc).
paragraph 2: I think you underestimate the resolve of most LDS members.
p3-5: Article of Faith 11, firstly (but none are placed higher than any others in church priority), secondly you can always home school your children, or just ensure that they receive "correct" instruction at home, which has long been a part of church doctrine, in the Doctrine and Covenants several of the first 12 apostles, Sidney Rigdon, and Joseph Smith himself are rebuked for failing to live up to the command to teach their families or because their families "are not in order" (per D&C 93)
If required to convert or move, I'd move, going back to AoF 11, or work within the law and petition lawmakers to reestablish freedom of conscience.
While Mormons are very sociable and friendly in church I would never doubt their resolve and faith. The church encourages service towards each other, and even (especially) towards families that are only partly members of the church (one parent or a child if parents gave permission for them to be baptised). We are taught to care for one another. I've been to a number of Catholic masses (my ex-mother-in-law is Catholic) the people show up, they don't care and they honestly seemed to be ambivalent towards each other at best. The priest even warned that at the previous years Easter mass a few purses had been stolen and to be careful with your own possessions, to me that just isn't right. During my time in the army when I was stationed in kuwait and didn't know about the LDS branch there (rented house we were permitted to use) I also attended a number of protestant meetings, similar experience, there was no love for the other attendees except from the chaplain and those who knew each other from work. We build up each other like a rope, a single strand or fiber has a certain level of strength, but not nearly as great as a dozen intertwined as one unit. We strengthen each other, help each other, and love each other as Christ taught. I'm sorry your own experience didn't allow you to see that, maybe you should try to look at it again with an open mind and heart. Nobody comes up and says "this is true" they say, "This is what I have faith in and believe to be true, pray about it to see if you believe for yourself."