Russia starts delivery of air defense units to Syria

again Russia's role will backfire on itself as those arming Iranian's thugs will arm Russia's enemies as well.

Don't forget that Russia has also to finish delivery to Iran on 250 Su30 long range fighter bombers and 20 new re-fuelers.

I fault Bush for his overly friendly stance to Russia. We need to face the fact that Russia is an enemy state and deal with it accordingly.

Russian arms to Syria, Joint Russian/ Chinese military exercises, and the announcement of the resumption of long range Russian bomber patrols all in the same week. Aside from the fact Russia is desperately trying to regain Superpower status, is there something more urgent going on behind the scences? Is Israel about to take out Iranian Nuke sites and this is Russia's reminder to the west that Iran is their ally?

jewdog,

The overly friendly stance started before Bush came into office. I am surprised he didn't curtail ties with them after Putin became dictator.
For a while it looked like there might be a chance for real reform and freedom in Russia. We were there in late 1996 (Moscow and Krasnoyarsk) and economically things weren't very good. People were trying to work, but wages were low and inflation was sky high.
There was hope, though, and lots of folks trying like heck to make it in an environment that gave them the first freedom they'd ever known. The family we stayed with in Moscow were some of the hardest working and most inventive people I've ever met! I'd gladly give them a acre or two and invite them to be our neighbors.
At that time there was a lot of western investment money and technology flowing in, especially in the development of Russian oil and gas fields. They never would have developed those oil and gas reserves without our help, but now Putin has increasingly nationalized those fields we developed and use them as a weapon of economic warfare against weestern Europe.

Once again it is a case of people wanting to be free and succesful, but the people in charge wanting something else- power. What is the saying..."Absolute power corrupts absolutely.", with the former head of the KGB in control what else can you expect? He wants things back the way they were 30 years ago and seems hell bend on doing just that irregardless of the consequences.

billyoblog,

I've wondered the same thing. The Russians are talking about a large, permanent, naval base in Syria, too, in addition to all the toys they've been shipping that way.

Some people look at Bible prophecy and see a conflict between Israel and the Russians. Up until recently I wondered how all that might take place. If the Russians are right down down in the firing line with the Islamonazis, it's a lot easier to see how they'd get involved.

Personally, I expect the shooting to start at any time and the Lord only knows who will be involved in the fight this time.

I read recently that the Russians are also planning a central fighter production facility. Naturally, I'm happy to hear that they are still fixated on their 'one big plant' philosophy. I think that the more they centrally control things, the more likely they are to produce the military crap that we kicked the crap out of in the desert...twice!! Yes...I know...they do make some capable air defense systems. Or perhaps I should say, they steal some pretty capable ones from us. Yep...all in all, I'd say our 'friends' the Russians are up to no good. Oh well.

What they're doing is beyond idiotic. The sole purpose of these weapons is to harm Israel. This is the type of thing that really ticks me off about Russia today. They aren't helping at all in the Middle East with their aid of Syria, Iran and Hamas.

About the "too friendly" stance of Bush: US is trying to destabilize Russia (see unexploded bombs in Georgia, what-his-name spy that was killed, NGOs, ...) but can't do it openly because Russians have oil and nukes. I think that's stupid too. US and Russia should be allies. Each of them helping different kinds of Islamists is even dumber and will come back to bite them both.

Well, I've been wondering if Putin was a bad guy for awhile. Now I have no doubt of it any longer.

These moves will ultimately cost more American lives. That puts Russia into the enemy column as far as I'm concerned.

This looks like, not only money making, but payback for our unwise support of the mujahidin against the Russians, which led to the Taliban.

Russia, China, and Islam have formed an axis.

My suggestion: Combine the G-7 nations with the British COmmonwealth nations( the ones that are still functioning democracies) and combat them with the forces of all these nations.

Just ponder a few things. Who arms the Saudi Arabians? Who arms the Paks? Who arms the UAE? Who is for Kosovo independence?

I am not saying the Russians are good guys but lets not forget they are still ticked off at us for supporting all those muslim independence movements on their borders.

I think this will backfire on the Russians just like us arming Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, UAE, Albania (and Kosovo), Jordan, Turkey and a few others will backfore on us.

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

The Russians make excellent weapons, but they earned horrible reputations and service records becausue they are operated by mainly bonehead muslims pilots, tankers, and mechanics.
The Russians have the best engineers and pilots, but if you have an idiot operating your equipment what can you do when the customer does not properly maintain the equipment.
Beware of the Russian Sukhoi series of aircraft, they can turn tail even on our new F-22 Raptors.
Beware more of Russian pilots.

There is no axis either. Russia and China never have gotten along even when they both were hardcore communist.

The idea that a axis of Islam - China - Russia could last is not possible. What the Russians are doing is the same thing we are doing which is...

Trying to make muslims like us.

Correction:

Trying to make muslims FRIENDS.

Putin was a bad guy for awhile.

Putin was/is KGB, once a thug always a thug.
With Russia sellilng military equipment to muslims, its like the chimps trying to drive a car, sooner or later it will blow up in their faces.

Doesn't the Russian gov. realize that the ummah has the same intent on them as they do on us and every other non-believer? Wishful thinking on their part. Their Syrian and other muslim allies will turn against them and the russians will have 1000 Beslan tragedies to deal with.

greatcometof1577:

I just read in the Wall Street Journal that Russia and China jointly threatened the United States if it interfered with Iranian-Chinese-and Russian co-operation. (All three countries are enraged apparently that America classified the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorism organization). What does that sound like to you?

Therefore there IS an (new) axis, I hate to have to tell you. And the United States is going to have to deal with it, too, as this is a very dangerous one.

Under pre-1991 conditions what you stated may well have been the case, but all bets are OFF in the current global political climate. There is just too much at stake in the global economy. Nobody wants to be a loose cannon on the world stage like the United States.

Times change. Radically. It looks to me like you are in a severe case of denial. The fact that Russia and China were traditionally enemies did NOT mean that this state of mutual antagonism was a permanent state of affairs (and it wasn't).

When, for example, did India and China EVER get along? (During the 1960s they nearly NUKED each other). Yet, while these two nations were adversaries until not so long ago (like Russia and China), this is no longer the case. The two countries presently enjoy close economic relations and a major thawing has transpired. Times change.

This also happens to be the situation between China and Russia. No way, Jose??? Russia and China HAVE MOST DEFINITELY BEEN getting along with each other these days. The last time I checked, these two countries were continuing to jointly stage enormous (the largest in history according to some news reports), well-co-ordinated military games in the Yellow Sea. Russian oil and gas pipelines flow directly into China and have for years--this can NOT occur without mutual co-operation, my friend.

No links between Russia and Islam? So,where are the Iranian Mullahs get their nuclear technology from? Moscow? (yes). Could Vladimir the Putrescent EVER get a "hero's welcome" in an Islamic nation? (Yes-- in Malaysia for example). But then, Russia has long been a handmaiden to Islamic terrorism on the world stage and many Islamist governments openly favor Communist economic philosophy. The Russia-friendly Nicaraguan government is now opening relations with Iran and its Mullahs.

Chinese co-operation with Islam? China is possibly the world's largest customer for Middle eastern petroleum (notably Sudan and Saudi Arabia). The Chinese military, you may be interested in knowing reportedly military trained al-Qaeda militants, during the 1990s. For all we know it still may be doing that. Wasn't it China that more or less supplied Pakistan with the Islamic bomb?? China also just rushed to Iran's defense when the US classified the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as a terrorism organziation.

Connect the dots. I see an axis on the horizon...

My suggestion that to counteract it, the US had better organize a new international body of democratic, non-ideological states that will stand by and defend democracy now while such a thing can still successfully be done.

Russian Equiptment + Russian operators= Russian Dead when Israel Strikes.

Time is against Israel. They cannot wait for the first blow to respond.

The World will show its true level of Anti- Semitism but so what. Israel already knows this.

We should provide escort for the Russian Bombers from the minute they leave Russian air space.

Is it time to bomb the Kremlin ? Putin back a few centuries ?

Russia is going down the tubes.

lol...old news, not because it's be ongoing, but nothing new because it's a continuation of the old soviet empire, we they helped orchestrate the 1967 war in the first place...it also almost blew up in their faces too.
http://www.defense-update.com/analysis/analysis_120607_sixdayswar.htm
Their intent wasn't as based on hating the eeeeevil joooooz like the islamists were...their intent was about obtaining a warm-water port where the west couldn't do anything about it.
So they got together and made plans...the rest is history...it almost blew up in their faces, and after the 1973 re-match blew up in their faces,too, they never tried it again...
...until now.

Arming the syrians with anti-air missiles and such, resuming bomber patrols worldwide, aiding and abetting irans nuke program, with china as the (money) bag man...just more evidence the soviet union never really fell...they just repackaged in another form (their military manuals admitted to such practices as a ruse)...but that's another story...and another enemy entirely (see the SCO), and the main event itself...

pythagoras

Is there is a U.S. - Saudi Arabian - Pakistan axis?

Russia and China want to pretend to be friends as long as they can stick it to us. The second we get out of Iraq and out of the Middle East oil business they will be at each others throats. Of course Russia and China will use our stupidity in Iraq against us. We are doing the same to them are we not?

Is it not Saudi Arabian (a good ally according to Bush) and Arab back jihadist in Eastern Europe that are wacking their Slavic brothers? Was it not Arabian oil money in Chechnya that funds the jihadist activity there?

What about this story in 2004...

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/09/russia.siege/index.html

Or the U.S. support for Kosovo independence? Or U.S. support for Albania, Turkey or former soviet republics that are majority Muslim states that are used to hid jihadist?

Really did you not think this would be forgotten or forgiven? We are paying the price for Bush/Clinton and their Saudi loving stupidity.

A simple deal could have avoided all this. If we had stayed out of the Serbs business and stopped supporting stupid independence movements in Chechnya maybe we could have talked some sense into Putin. Now Putin is out for himself and Russia and going about it in a stupid way.

Please don't act like we are so innocent in this. We support Jihadist too. When you gas up you SUV and pay taxes that go to support Arab countries what do you think that money goes? When our UN ambassador gets up and demands Kosovo independence or for the Russians not to be so hard on Chechnya…

Everything has consequences. Russia and U.S. have been using the Muslims as middle men in our feud for the last 50 years. We will both pay a heavy price for their service.

Blowback, thy Russian name is Beslan.

They think that by selling pitchforks to the devil that only their enemies will end up on the skewers.

Misunderstanding Islam's contempt for kaffirs, whether they have a Cyrillic or Latin alphabet.

Lenin said his opponents would sell him the rope to hang them with.

Russia is giving Muslims technological rope.

Watch your neck, Vlad.

You're no impaler.

Russia vs. U.S.A.....

Sassanid Persian Empire vs. Byzantine Empire....

"So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

And I see not in my blindness
What the objects were I wrought,
But as God rules o'er our bickerings
It was through His will I fought." G.S. Patton

"Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue." Sun Tzu

Oh yea one more...

"One war at a time" Abraham Lincoln

Its time our English challenged president who thinks he is Reagan had a sit down with the ex-KGB homer who thinks he is Peter the Great. Perhaps it means we have to stop supporting Kosovo (which sounds good to me) or yes even stop the expansion of NATO (which was farce to begin with) to get them to back off Iran and Syrian support.

That is life....

Last night on Fox they said Russia will have a lot to gain after they help Iran bomb the oil finery's. There is no doubt they are helping Iran.
This will make their economy richer than America's. Sending America into turmoil and we will be a poor nation.

greatcometof1577:
You made some good points concerning the U.S.-Soviet maneuvering in the ME, Kosovo, Chechnya, etc). But I would add that this is nothing new and every country on the planet has engaged in this sort of war by proxy. We have to see beyond the short term effects of temporary 'aliances' and think about the long term consequences. The Russians were our "allies" in WWII, and we helped consign Eastern Europe to the bastards as part of the Yalta Agreement. Patton, for good reason, hated them even more than the Germans and said so:
Quotes: The Russians are mongols. They are Slavs and a lot of them used to be ruled by ancient Byzantium. From Genghis Kahn to Stalin. They have
not changed. They never will and we will never learn, at least , not until it is too late.

And:

"If it should be necessary for us fight the russians.the sooner we do it,
the better."

And:

"I believe that Germany should not be destroyed , but rather should be rebuilt as a buffer against the real danger, which is Russia and it's bolshevism."

The tragic thing about Russia is that even though its been given the opportunity to change from a totalitarian gulag, it still retains the same attitudes and habits. Putin is just an old KGB party apparatich who refuses to let go of the hard line Communist mindset.
As a recently-retired Soldier who served through the Cold war (as well as Desert Storm, Bosnia, and OIF), I still don't trust those damned Cossacks.

Wonder when the chechynians and the dagestenians are gonna get their weapons!

greatcometof 1577:

Your replies do not persuade me in the least.

Not so long ago Ousamah bin Laden commented : "the work of the Islamists and the world of the Socialists meets in the war against the crusaders." I doubt he was bluffing. And

Under ABSOLUTELY NO circumstances would I ever buy the assertion that the United States assisted Islam in worldwide terrorism--the Bush Administration, for example, is actually attempting to defeat the global jihad (however misguided it may be in assisting the governments of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia; true we should probably be at war with these two countries but the carrot is supposed to come before the stick anyway-- war can always be declared at a later date). Also worth mentioning is that America is obligated to defendSaudi Arabia per a treaty it signed with Saudi Arabia in 1934; that may be why it sells weapons to Saudi Arabia incidentally; Saudi Arabia is now worried about an ivasion from Iran; thus the Saudis' grounds for these weapons may have a legitimate basis). I'm not sure The House of Saud is really the source of the vast horrors emanating from Sausi Arabia anyway (it's really the Wahabi mosques there and also in Egypt that propagate the Kuran's homicidal messages that considition the terrorists; it is debatable how much any centralized government could do to put a stop to all this; true, the House of Saud's will to do so is weak, but there are reports that it does make occasional half-hearted efforts to do so at America's requests).

America has no such long-standing agreement with Pakistan of course, but backing Musharraf may be the lesser of the evils facing America there; there are many, many worse Pakistanis who could be running the place as we can gauge from Pakistan's horribly bloody history.

The US government at least is attempting to undermine global jihad (and save the petroleum supply to the western democracies at the same time)--this is hardly ominous (except that its policies are unlikely to work and could leave America and the west more vulnerable). Russia on the other hand is NOT doing anything to undermine the global jihad under way and as it is supplying huge caches of weapons to Islamic nations that are openy enemies of the west and Israel (notably Iran and Syria and some years back Saddam Hussein's regime). Russia is doing what it always has : using jihad as an opportunity to accure global power at the expense of the western democracies.

Under absolutely NO circumstances would I ever buy the notion you have set forth that Russia and America are moral equivalents either. For the simple reason that most (not all) of America's geopolitical maneuvers were a response to Russian Cold War practices. If Russia hadn't been aggressively imposing Communist ideology upon the world, America would not have needed to make the many seemingly unfortunate foreign policy choces that it made. As for Afghanistan, Muslim or not, the Russians violated Afghanis sovereign rights as a nation when they invaded it(as Afghanistan had not declared war on Russia).

America's support for the Islamic was NOT so ominous either in fact it was a legitimate strategy (except that Americasn' were grossly naive about Islamic idology and ultimately backfired on America; the taliban was to turn on America later of course). Even in the Balkans, Milosevic used the anti-jihad to mask masacres of other Balkan Christians who stood in his way. So no I don't see anything in your analysis of US foreign policy that compares to the Soviet Empire as I already know it never has.

Claire Sterling documented Russian complicity with Islamic terrorism organizations over the second half of the twentieth century in her landmark work "The Terror Network: The Secret War of International Terror." I suggest you read it.

So Putin is Mr Evil is he?

So , who rode into Macedonia in early 2001 and retrieved a Mujahideen unit who were about to be wiped out by the Mac forces? The MB killers were safely taken further upstream on air conditioned buses where they proceeded to torture to death some unfortunate ethnic Mac farmers. Of those ethnic Macedonians who survived the torture, many later committed suicide or simply disappeared.

Any idea?

Here's a clue. It's the same Army who killed precisely zero Islamist terrorists as they crossed over from Kosovo that year.

And , no , the Cold War is not an excuse.

Even in the Balkans, Milosevic used the anti-jihad to mask masacres of other Balkan Christians who stood in his way

Stood in his way? Sorry?

So tell me , how many ethnic Croats were murdered in Serbia because of their ethnicity?

In Bosnia, Karadic tried very hard to forge an alliance with the Bosnian Croats. It was guess which country which coaxed the Croats into an Islamist partnership. Time and time again the Bosnian Croats were given safety in Bosnian Serb territory when they were overrun by the Islamists early in the civil war.

BTW The three or so ethnic Croat villages in Kosovo were treated well by the Serb forces and were ethnically cleansed by the KLA/NATO.

Yes, Putins deal with Syria is deplorable. It's all about the money folks. Just as France, the UK and the US sell gazillions of muskets and arrows to less-than-reliable regimes in the area too.

All deplorable.

I think I know why Putin gets such a poor press.

It's because he's a white, middle class, heterosexual man who's not ashamed of who he is or what he stands for.

I mean, how dare he. He should be full of remorse and shame and guilt. Just like we see in the West.

Putin saved Russia, and is rightly hugely popular in the country. Good on him and good on Russia.

pythagoras My suggestion that to counteract it, the US had better organize a new international body of democratic, non-ideological states that will stand by and defend democracy now while such a thing can still successfully be done.

You mean democracies like Iraq?

Old joke i know but oldies are goldies.

Also, Iran is a sort-of-democracy you know. Really it is. That's the whole friggin' problem with Islam. It's a case of a tyranny of the majority.

Don't you get it ?

livefreeordie! "For a while it looked like there might be a chance for real reform and freedom in Russia.

Oh , you're referring to the rule of that teetotal genius , Yeltsin , who turned Russia into a gloriously rich paradise.

Yeah , great choice . Way to go.

ZenaWarriorPrincess once a thug always a thug

What's wrong with a thug at the controls ?

Rather a thug like Putin than a blowhard drug taking hippie coward like Dubya who blubs to his war hero dad to get him out of Nam.