Turkey's foreign minister Gul renominated for presidency

Look, we can't have it both ways. The nationalists criticise Abdullah Gul for his close associations with the EU and the USA and the secularists criticise him because they think he is overly Islamic. Who's correct here?

Certainly, if Mr Gul is elected president by the parliament then his wife would be the first First Lady of Turkey to cover her head with a scarf - a deeply divisive issue in Turkey - which is probably illegal at public events.

The Cyprus issue is a problem for Mr Gul.
During his time as Prime Minister he highlighted it as one of his key priorities. But Cyprus is still a block to Turkey's EU membership. Last year, Mr Gul said Cyprus was "poisoning" Turkey's EU accession process - thank God!

Mr Gul has also criticised US policies in the Middle East and is on record as saying that Washington's support for Israel in its conflict in Lebanon last year has caused a backlash in Turkey. He said moderate Turks were in danger of becoming anti-American because of this.

If simple-minded Turks feel that Mr Gul is correct over Cyprus and the Lebanon then let them vote accordingly. At least we in the free West will then know where we stand vis-a-vis Turkey!

Wish it were that simple. Mr Gul will be voted in, or otherwise, by Mr Erdogan's AKP dominated Parliament. The President of Turkey is not acclaimed by the people but voted for by the Turkish Parliament which is currently dominated by Mr Erdogan's AKP - a deeply Islamist organisation.

Mr. Erdogan was born in Kasımpasa, Istanbul. His family was descended from Georgian immigrants who settled, by all accounts, in Rize. Mr. Erdogan spent his early childhood in Rize before escaping to Istanbul at the age of 13 as a rebellious, and probably abused, child. He spent most of his childhood selling 'simit' on the streets of Istanbul before he received some education at a religious Imam Hatip school - a type of vocational school set up to train government employed imams after madrasas in Turkey were abolished by Tevhid-i Tedrisat Kanunu (Unification of the Education Act) as a part of Ataturk's reforms. These schools used to be immensly popular amongst the more islamic and conservative families in Turkey but have lost some ground in the last decade or so because of the fiercly secular nature of many of Turkey's Universities and their consequent refusal to accept graduates from these schools.

Honestly, need I say more? Mr Erdogan's support for and nomination of Mr. Gul's attempt on the Presidency is, as you must see, nothing more than an attempt at an Islamically inspired takeover of the Turkish state and a perversion of its Kemalist democratic ideals (???).

That a significant number of Turks voted for the AKP at the last election has far more to do with the AKP's monetary policies than it does with the the AKP's islamist policies which most Turkish voters simply failed to register - more's the pity!

Erdogan is very clever. He is supporting and likely to get Islamism by the back door and using Mr Gul in his efforts. The West should beware of this man!

To United States citizen jihad watchers:

I'm looking for at least two people in every state of the Union who would be willing to purchase a copy of Robert Spencer's Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't and mail it to one of the senators in your state. I'm organizing an effort to get the book simultaneously to all 100 senators, in order to send a strong message. If you are interested in being involved, please leave a comment at www.jihadawareness.blogspot.com. No need to leave your real name, but do say what state you live in. Once we have at least two people from every state, we can coordinate the mailing. If we get more than two people per state, we could send copies of the book to the House of Representatives as well.

Right before we do the mailing, we might issue a short press release to newspapers in every state, and in that way announce and briefly explain the mailing.

Why the F*CK should we give a rat's *SS about this backward entryway into Asia which calls itself Turkey?

Let them do whatever they want to do. Just let them do it FAR AWAY FROM EUROPE!!!

traeh,
I'd be happy too, as it's a great idea...in principle...problem is, my senators, feinstein might give it a tacit glance, but boxer (?)-lol, not a chance in hell (she's so far up the durkas ass they're forced to mumble their poisonous screed now) , they'd throw it in the trash the moment they get it, provided their lapdogs at the door don't intercept it first...just as soon be giving a copy of the Torah to adolph hitler.

The conservatives will probably have one by the time you send them out, so I wouldn't worry about them.
If you sent only ONE, send it to Big Joe (Liebermann), he's good people (his political status is irrelevant), he's the real power broker in the Senate (if he changed parties, he'd change the senate & harry milktoast reid would be out of a job-and he knows it, too), and when he speaks, everyone listens.

Start there...and work your way down.
Good Luck

Back to topic...makes us wonder if there is a civil war in the making?
Though they're strategically significant, their past history tells me it would be no great loss-hasn't really been since a few hundred years ago.
"long & healthy war"

Can't say I'll miss them...nor will Armenians, Kurds, Greeks, Georgians, Bulgars, Romanians, Serbs, et al...

The moronification of Turkey proceeds. Help!

"Why the F*CK should we give a rat's *SS about this backward entryway into Asia which calls itself Turkey?"

....Missiles, in Muslims hands, in Turkey, could rain death upon many places....

Our ‘Friends’ the Sowdi’s are seething over Wilders

The Sowdi swine tried it before and failed. Now its round two:

The worlds most despicable hypocrites, the recipients of more than ten trillion dollars in undeserved wealth within the last 30 years, the most poisonous snake pit and the worlds hotbed of Jihadmania and Islam-lunacy, the sharia-promoting founders of thousands of mosques and madrassah’s worldwide, the 10.000 degenerated princes and princesses of the desert kingdom, are seething:

Because Hollands shining light, the honorable, popularly elected politician Geert Wilders, had the guts to tell the Muhammedan invaders to either shred the Koran or to pack up and piss off.

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/08/14/our-friends-the-sowdis-are-seething-over-wilders/

Traeh--

Very, very cool.

the most poisonous snake pit and the worlds hotbed of Jihadmania and Islam-lunacy, the sharia-promoting founders of thousands of mosques and madrassah’s worldwide,

Now come on SheikY.. spit it out - say what you think ;)

Damn...and all this time I thought he was hinting at CAIR in Dearborn, Michigan! LOL

jcom & others with democratic senators

I understand the futility expressed by sending the books to dhimmicratic senators but...

Didn't Boxer distance her self from the CAIR use of congressional conference room?? She knows something doesn't smell right with CAIR and muslims in America?

It is as much for the symbolic act of receiving 100 books at the same time as it is for taking the chance she will actually read it...

Books instead of hate mail from constituents might be something they'd appreciate...

The project looses impact if only Republicans are mailed...

Sometimes politicians take public positions contrary to personal opinions...

Maybe someone in the senators office will read it...

Consider the purchases as a contribution to the cause...

Maybe they'll have an epiphany by the time it is mailed and it is received (desperate times call for desperate arguments)...

O/T

A Jewish woman appointed principal at Kahil Gabran school in Brooklyn! What a hoot!!
http://www.nysun.com/pf.php?id=60428&v=6190907811

HOOT meaning that I envisioned the look on the faces of all the "Arabic" promoters of this project when they got the news about this this little setback in their plans for a madrassa in NYC.

Assalamau Laikum Traeh,

Please please do not waste your time and money. Instead give it to charity.....preferably to Iraqi war veterans.

Sentors are very busy peoples and do not have time for books...they are too busy trying to schedule meetings with Obama, Ellison and Hooper.

You may even have to be careful...and be accused of polarising the senators....jail is a bad idea for you lard filled softies of the Amerike.

If you want to make a difference ...why not send the books to muslim leaders instead...the princes of the Saud, Indonesia, Iran's president, Mushi.....these are the people who can really make a difference, that maybe worth a shot (no pun intended).

Traeh, I am sure you are a really lovely person...and probably mighty busy....why waste your precious time....breathe deeply and relax...Islam is just a dream....and anyway it's somebody else's problem ...not yours.

No need to be a hero my dear....they only exist in Hollywood....you are a statistic....why pretend to be more...be cool, spend time with your dogs ....wuslims will smooth over any possible problems with Islam ...sharia lite will soothe away any sharp edges....sleep at nite....chill....don't post...don't post....you are feeling sleepy now!.

There's a video on Youtube from the religion of peace.

Using animal as a bomb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPFG2seH2wo&mode=related&search=

It's been up since Aug. 2006. Video of a donkey being blown up. Filmed by the culprit. An example of how to send a donkey into a crowd of people at a market to inflict damage and save your chicken ass?

Naseem

Maybe you can answer some questions? Since you consider yourself a REAL muslim.

How can anyone say Islam is peaceful when it has a whole chapter dedicated to spoils of war?

How can anyone say islam is peaceful when Muhammad had so many people murdered? Those who insulted him? Muslims say how Muhammad was the most tolerant man and he never hurt anyone. Giving the example of the women who threw innards on his back. How do muslims explain Asma bint Marwan? Do muslims deny the story somehow? Is it possible that it can be denied legitimately?

How do muslims deny the others? Those that he had murdered? The poet Ka'b bin al-Ashraf? And the poet Abu Afak?

And farmers who were asleep?

How do muslims explain the way he treated women as kind when he took wives after murdering their husbands?

How many people did Mohammad have murdered total? Those that can't be denied. How many in year one, two, etc.?

How can followers of Mohammad say islam is peaceful when 259 of his followers died in battle before he even died? When he had hundreds of people beheaded in one day? Those same people call Bush and Blair murderers even though they didn't actually kill anyone but sent soldiers to war, but they deny Mohammad's responsibilty for the same types of deaths. Even worse when he said kill people individually case by case.

How can followers of Mohammad say islam is peaceful when the sects have been fighting since his death? And the caliphs have been murdered?

Isn't Mohammad the only "prophet" who did not live by example? Who broke his own rules laid down for others but not himself?

How long has the excuse -He's not a real muslim-, and -That isn't real islam- and -That has nothing to do with islam- been used? Right from the start?

But hell awaits them, for they killed the prophets (v. 183).

Since muslims say that Christ wasn't crucified, who does this refer to?

And why do muslims consider themselves the only monotheistic religion when jews and zoarastrians also believe in one god?

Can you answer any of these questions?

A few reasons why we should care if Turkey becomes a truly Islamic state.

First is Turkey’s strategic position.

Next, consider Turkey’s armed forces and their toughness—remember that it was Turks converted to Islam who provided many of the forces involved in expanding the Muslim empire in Islam’s heyday and that many of the troops involved in Muslim attempts to invade Europe were Turkish. Ask the Armenians how ruthless the Turks of the Ottoman Empire could be.

Next, is the possibility that the Turks could acquire nuclear weapons capabilities from other Muslim states like Pakistan or even from North Korea if they really tried.

Next, is the fact that Turkish involvement in NATO gives them knowledge of operational details, examples of and insight into Western military technology and tactics and knowledge of Western political systems that other Muslim countries don’t have.

Next, remember all the Turks who have been imported in droves to settle in many countries in Europe.

This is way off topic but y'all should check this story from Northeast Intelligence Network http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/FedNYC081407

What would constitute a sensible American policy toward Turkey -- sensible, that is, for American and Infidel interests?

It would, in the first place, be based on the recognition that the American assumption that Kemalism -- i.e., the systematic constraining of Islam as a political and social force -- was not only here to stay, but its effects would become ever wider and ever less reversible in Turkey -- was flatly wrong. Islam is like Rasputin and keeps coming back, but unlike Rasputin, it cannot, at long last, be put paid to. The reason that there are sensible Turks, people to whom one can talk in a way that one cannot, for example, talk to Arabs with (save for those few remarkable exceptions Westerners keep confusedly assuming are representative of more than a handful), people who are or are on their way to becoming recognizable members of the modern, secular world, is because of Ataturk and his intelligent efforts to weaken Islam.

Second, the Americans should themselves realize, and make those Turks they have dealings with realize, that the Cold War is over, that Turkey is no longer quite as necessary as a listening post and site for airbases (not least because of the new possibilities in formerly communist states such as Bulgaria), and that since Turkey shows no signs of allowing the present bases to be used for operations against Muslim states, those bases are in any case of far less worth than they once were.

Third, the American government should stop supporting Turkish entry into the E.U. Such support merely antagonizes, rightly, Europeans, who do not relish the notion of a country with 80 million Muslims entering the E.U., its people allowed then to travel and settle at will anywhere they wish within that E.U., and furthermore, given the already-horrific security nightmare that large Muslim populations present, given that along with Turks and Turkish Kurds all sorts of others will be able to slip in (how easy will it be for the border police in, say, Italy, to detect the difference between a Turk, say, and an Arab who has a false passport and a few words of Turkish?). The Turkish lobby in America is very strong; among those who have been agents of Turkey are Richard Perle (who introduced Erdogan two years ago at an A.E.I. event -- the same Perle who was so intelligent about the Soviet Union when he and Dorothy Fosdick worked for Senator Jackson has never, apparently, felt the need to study Islam) and Douglas Feith; Brent Scowcroft is now an agent of Turkish interests.

Fourth, there should be a recognition that the thoroughly westernized Turks who form the officer class in Turkey, and who meet with their Pentagon counterparts, do not represent Turkey but represent, possibly, one-quarter of Turkey. The Turkish Muslim masses never gave up on Islam, just as the Iranian Muslim masses never did -- to the great surprise of the reformist Bakhtiars and revolutionary Abolhassan-Bani-Sadrs and all the others who either tried to modify the Shah's regime, or to work against it, and as leftists in the Mossadegh line thought they could work with, and use for their own purposes Khomeini, when it was Khomeini, of course, who used them. The secular class in Turkey, the class that goes to the shopping malls, that thinks of itself as thoroughly modern, that sends its children to school in the West, that despises the Arabs and is largely lapsed in its observance of Islam (and no doubt mocks those Believers who come to stare at the fossilized Footsteps of Muhammad preserved at Topkapi), accepted, or rather pocketed, the Kemalist dispensation that made their lives of relative mental freedom possible, but also handed over the duty of preserving Kemalism and keeping Islam in its box to the army, and the army wasn't enough.

The replacement-myth of Kemalism, by which the nationalist narrative of "the Turk" as "the Sun People" (see Inonu), the "Turks" who apparently were in Anatolia long before the Seljuk and the Osmanli Turks arrived, practically back to the time of the Hittites, in a sense replaced, or at least competed with, the narrative of Islam, and in which the cult of personality (kult lichnosti) of Ataturk repaced the cult of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, needs to be given a New Release. And this New Release, Kemalism 2.1, should be based not on that super-nationalism that carries over elements of Islam (in the celebration-narrative of "the Turk," the only "Turks" who count are the Muslim Turks-- Greeks, Armenians, Jews may be Turkish citizens, but are not full-fledged Turks), but on the Englightenment, whose time has not as yet come anywhere in the Muslim lands, but if it does come somewhere, that somewhere is likely to be Turkey, or one or two of the Central Asian Stans, or possibly neo-Destourian Tunisia.

In other words, Kemalism did not succeed, or is under assault, because the reforms instituted by Kemal Ataturk were not continued, and the secularists in their "let-the-army-do-it" have failed not only Turkey, but themselves. If Erdogan and Gul and the primitive masses bring back Islam in a big way, it will be because Turkey's secularists were insufficiently farsighted and insufficiently ruthless.

Fifth, as to that "ruthlessness" -- the Americans and Europeans should not be outraged, nor pretend to be outraged, should the Turkish military stage a coup to stop the slow, steady, systematic de-Kemalization of Turkey, the attempt to little by little undo all that Ataturk wrought. As Ayaan Hirsi Ali has noted, Infidels outside of Turkey are not aware of how cunningly the forces of Islam operate, of how they use every individual freedom -- freedoms which they would not tolerate for one minute were they in power -- and the dictates of the E.U. to Turkey as an applicant -- to tie down any conceivable response by the army as the guardian of Kemalism.

Real freedom for Turkey means freedom from the mental submission that Islam demands, and no one should be fooled into thinking that this doubly-totalitarian Total System of Belief brings "freedom" of the kind that George Bush, so dimly aware, or dim in his awareness, of so much, means or thinks he means when he talks about bringing "freedom" and "democracy" to "ordinary moms and dads" in the Middle East. In Turkey, true freedom comes only from those who uphold Kemalist constraints on Islam, and how they do it should be their own business.

What we are seeing now with the military refusing to allow Islam-o-fascism to rule Turkey is a result of the pre-Islamic roots of Christianity that were sunk into the land...even if the nation's majority has turned from it. Something deep within them just cannot let their nation freefall into the sinkhole of allah mud.

The spirit realm always overrides the psychical realm. The super natural always dominates the natural. Even the smallest light can overcome miles of darkness. And there remains something there fighting it in Turkey.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293197,00.html

This Mayor from Georgia converted to Islam and is buddying up to Hugo Chavez:

MACON, Ga. — Some Macon residents have called for demonstrations and boycotts after the mayor of the central Georgia city formally reached out to Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez with a declaration of solidarity.

Mayor Jack Ellis said the declaration, sent about two weeks ago by courier, was a message that local leaders can stand together despite disagreements at the highest reaches of government...

...Ellis, a Democrat, is serving his second term as mayor and cannot seek re-election because of term limits.

He announced in February that he had converted to Islam and was working to legally change his name to Hakim Mansour Ellis. Ellis, who was raised Christian, said he became a Sunni Muslim during a December ceremony in the west African nation of Senegal.

Another Democrat... treasonous.

"....you are a statistic...."
Posted by: Naseem

...Exactly what Muslims want you to be....

Turkey is looking to get basted.

"Insulting Turkish identity" was always code for "insulting Islam-lite".

Now they want to let the "lite" slip away.

In every sense.

"He announced in February that he had converted to Islam and was working to legally change his name to Hakim Mansour Ellis"

.....name changes signals trouble....and helps identify the ones who will cause trouble...

GaryK the reason we do not want Turkey in the EU and with us, is for exactly the reasons you stated we want her for.

Turks have had a long record of ruthlessness, their military did wreak havoc all over Europe. She may be located strategically they are located in a hot spot, but there are better people to make real alliances with in the same region. Try actually doing something positive with the Russians for a change. How about doing something like arming the Armenians to the teeth and moving your missiles there instead?

Maybe they can boot the Turks out of Cyprus and place missiles and bases there instead. Having operational knowledge of NATO in itself is nothing new, I imagine many adversaries know a lot more than we think. The thing here is Turkey is not a threat if she isn't armed by the west.

We have to stop thinking of doing things for Turkey because we fear her, we need to stop Turkey for those exact reasons. The Turks have given the world nothing but heartache, and she is now looking for a way to continue that long Islamic tradition.

GaryK the reason we do not want Turkey in the EU and with us, is for exactly the reasons you stated we want her for.

Turks have had a long record of ruthlessness, their military did wreak havoc all over Europe. She may be located strategically they are located in a hot spot, but there are better people to make real alliances with in the same region. Try actually doing something positive with the Russians for a change. How about doing something like arming the Armenians to the teeth and moving your missiles there instead?

Maybe they can boot the Turks out of Cyprus and place missiles and bases there instead. Having operational knowledge of NATO in itself is nothing new, I imagine many adversaries know a lot more than we think. The thing here is Turkey is not a threat if she isn't armed by the west.

We have to stop thinking of doing things for Turkey because we fear her, we need to stop Turkey for those exact reasons. The Turks have given the world nothing but heartache, and she is now looking for a way to continue that long Islamic tradition.

GaryK the reason we do not want Turkey in the EU and with us, is for exactly the reasons you stated we want her for.

Turks have had a long record of ruthlessness, their military did wreak havoc all over Europe. She may be located strategically they are located in a hot spot, but there are better people to make real alliances with in the same region. Try actually doing something positive with the Russians for a change. How about doing something like arming the Armenians to the teeth and moving your missiles there instead?

Maybe they can boot the Turks out of Cyprus and place missiles and bases there instead. Having operational knowledge of NATO in itself is nothing new, I imagine many adversaries know a lot more than we think. The thing here is Turkey is not a threat if she isn't armed by the west.

We have to stop thinking of doing things for Turkey because we fear her, we need to stop Turkey for those exact reasons. The Turks have given the world nothing but heartache, and she is now looking for a way to continue that long Islamic tradition.

I think I started from here and eventually came to this short online book.

Well worth the time.

The Downfall of the Netherlands

Land of the Naive Fools

http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/heroes/downfall.htm

jcom972 you said:

traeh,
I'd be happy too, as it's a great idea...in principle...problem is, my senators, feinstein might give it a tacit glance, but boxer...

Maybe you aren't fully recognizing the way a strategy like this could work...for example, what if Boxer or Feinstein got a copy, looked at the title and the accompanying note the sender would include, and then that was all they did with the book. Then suppose each of them received a second, or a third or a fourth or a fifth copy from other individuals? Do you know how powerful a petition that kind of thing would be? Think how much attention politicians pay to phone calls they receive. They know that every phone call represents about a thousand people who think the same way, but don't have the time to call. So staff make notes to record the basic issue of each call and the caller's basic position. The same would be true in spades of this strategy of individuals sending books. So the senators might actually read it or have a staffperson read it and provide a briefing. I think you underestimate this. Notice that Tokyo-Rose Naseem doesn't like it one bit.

You said:

The conservatives will probably have one by the time you send them out, so I wouldn't worry about them.

Maybe you miss a major part of the point. Even if some conservatives have this book already -- and I doubt very many of them do have it or will read it without encouragement from constitutents -- but even if they did have the book, a major part of the point of this strategy is to let politicians know there is a lot of strong support for the viewpoint in the book, and to generate publicity for the book and its viewpoint. (Remember also the press release that in many states will precede the mailing.) Another benefit of this strategy is that it is like a donation to Spencer, since he's the author and will get a royalty. And it's an encouragement to Regnery, his publisher, and to any other publisher who has the guts to work with Spencer.

It has been less than a day, and we already have three people on board, though as of now I have posted a request for participants in only one place: on this thread. I'm going to keep posting for others to get involved, unless someone can show me why this is a counterproductive strategy.

Marisol,
Thanks very much for the encouragement. - Traeh

This tendency should be kept in mind if the EU (However long it lasts.) should want to consider Turkey's membersip again.