UK: Grooming of white girls for sex is exposed as two Muslim men jailed

They dont want to offend Muslims but offending Asians is ok? Weird apologist logic.

You think this is bad in the United Kaliphate, check out the agenda for making England Islamic.

http://the-gathering-storm.blogspot.com/2007/08/storm-track-appeasement-islam-on-track.html

It's the constant, non-stop, finding excuses for their disgraceful behaviour that grates.

If it was whites doing this to Asians would she be making excuses about a cultural difference?

"They do not seem to understand that there are white girls as moral and as good as Asian girls"

Sorry. But this is just racist anti-white crap. And no, I don't support the BNP, but people are getting sick of the constant ant-white racism that this government promotes.

And why are they referred to as "Asians"? It sure as hell isn't Hindus from India who are doing this.

Rant over!

Elric,

Does this mean that anyone who wants to go to university has to study Islam as well?

So if you want to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or whatever, you have to study Islam if you want to graduate?

Elric,

Does this mean that anyone who wants to go to university has to study Islam as well?

So if you want to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or whatever, you have to study Islam if you want to graduate?

Voltaire,

Thats what it sounds like. If not, it will get there.

The white slave trade is Israeli in origin:

http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/Israel_Sex_Slavery.html

The cultural norms being described are Islamic, although the paper sticks to the UK euphemism of "Asian."

Is anyone fooled by the "Asian" label anymore? In Britain, "Asian" is synonymous with utter disgust towards muhammedans.

Asian as relates to Asia is nothing of the sort. When I think of Asia, there is the Near East, Far East and Middle East. I don't think Japanese, Indian or Israeli when someone is referred to as "Asian". A person whose ancestry is from India, I think of as Indian and so on with the other non-muhammedan entities.

The dhimmi msm fools few with such euphemisms.

Parents claim that criminal networks are able to prey on young girls because the authorities are reluctant to tackle the issue for fear of upsetting race relations in areas of the North West with large ethnic minority communities.

Police are afraid to protect young girls for fear of upsetting Muslims? If the Muslims get upset, who cares? If they are sympathetic to pedophiles, why are you worried about their feelings. But then their prophet was a pedo so it is understandable. Not protecting children, now thats shameful.

Filthy $&"$&"$ ! No, I am not talking about the Muslims, but about the reporters who hide thi under the tag "Asians".

Which Asians? Chinese? Hindus? Japonese?

Who exacly are they trying to fool?

(OFF TOPIC: Does anyone know of a good anti-Islamo-nazism Brittish blog?)

Their view about white women is generally fairly low.

There was a famous case of "Asian" grooming of white girls in Ann Cryer's constituency of Keighley, West Yorkshire not so long ago. But now that the locals are on to their game they've turned to rape for their kicks. This from the local paper of her constituency:

The link didn't come through, let's try again:

http://www.keighleynews.co.uk/news/newskeighley/keighleynews/display.var.1606356.0.witness_plea_after_woman_is_attacked.php

There are many comments on "The Times" angered at the use of the overly-broad term "Asian," when these men are CLEARLY AND SPECIFICALLY Pakistani Muslims.

My country (UK) is a joke. So afraid are the media and politicians of being branded racist and losing their jobs/pensions that they allow peadophiles to rape and gangs to murder without ever standing up for the victims. They are prepared to insult a whole group (asians) when the problems are caused by muslim men who see these children as nothing more that kuffar to be used and abused as they see fit.

It is a terrifying prospect that our elected representatives will turn a blind eye to child molesters and gangs of murderers (See: Kris Donald et al) in order to protect islam from critiscism. Even when that critiscism is justified. The media are just as bad in most cases, they seem to take pleasure in hiding the details of these heinous crimes. Except when the murderers are non-muslims then they stoke the muslim hatred to it's max, gleefully telling the muslim community what a bad lot we are (not including themselves fo course).

I think it's time that the politicians and the media admitted that they ENCOURAGE the rape of children and the murder of non-muslims by allowing these people to keep playing the victim card. There have been hundreds (if not htousands) of muslim attacks that go unreported or played down in order to promote "multiculturalism". If "multiculturalism" is so good surely you have to highlight when it is not working. As everyone in this forum is aware, islam has used "multiculturalism" to colonise our country and quite literally get away with murder.

However, Ms Cryer added: “I think there is a problem with the view Asian men generally have about white women. Their view about white women is generally fairly low. They do not seem to understand that there are white girls as moral and as good as Asian girls.”

"THEY DO NOT SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE WHITE GIRLS AS MORAL AND AS GOOD AS ASIAN GIRLS"

Is she for real? That is just undisguised racism against white people! Suggesting that muslim girls are moral but only some white girls are? What they mean by "moral asian girls" is "totally controlled asian (muslim) girls, who keep their mouths shut and their bodies covered, and submit to men".

Ms. Cryer should be arrested for inciting racial hatred against white people (specifically children).
This suggests to me that she doesn't seem to mind if white children are raped by peadophiles if they are immoral? That's moral by muslim standards of course. What makes this even worse is that she is probably white herself, but desperate to join the "I love islam, i'm not a racist" brigade.

STOP APOLOGISING FOR OUR CULTURE TO A CULTURE THAT TREATS ALL WOMEN LIKE TILTH.

A priceless quote from the Iranian propaganda website linked above by 'verdadtoo':

"Why should they, the Americans, have trusted us? We were a bunch of Russians, socialist Russians."
- - Isser Harel, former head of Mossad, speaking of the unlikely union between America and the Marxist state of Israel."

It seems that the Islamo-Nazis are desperately trying to be like their heroes--I just hope that sooner rather than later they will lose their much more important allies (the leftists).

Hell they sound like they have assimilated into western culture

The greatest allies that Muslims have are the PC, Multi Culti, ‘Yuman rites’ spouting, Tree Hugging, Leftwing, Moonbat, Guardianistas. These people have long been in power in UK and almost exclusively supply all of Acedemia, the Judiciary, Social Services, Political Parties and the BBC (along with radical feminists and Gays of course) and the rest of the MSM. They have also heavily infiltrated the Police Force and the Armed Services. In the USA now I see the same moonbats taking power Nancy Pelosi et al and you already have them in the MSM (CNN,CNBC etc). The next presidential election is crucial for the USA the result will decide if the USA survives or falls victim to the same moonbat disease which grips most of Europe. The Sarkosy promises in France soon fizzled out didn't they and look at the mess that is Spain.

(OFF TOPIC: Does anyone know of a good anti-Islamo-nazism Brittish blog?)-Posted by: Crusader

Try some of these:

http://drakesdrumuk.blogspot.com/
http://godhelpbritain.blogspot.com/
http://lionheartuk.blogspot.com/
http://united_british.my-place.us/blog/

Mohammedans have an iron-clad ideology for this despicable behavior, for the kafir, especially, the female kafir, is fair game for sex. It's in the books, it's the sacred way.

http://www.amazon.com/Submission-Women-Slaves-CSPI/dp/0979579406/ref=sr_1_1/103-0821454-5128662?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1186931966&sr=1-1

Everyone should read the essay on lionhearuk's blog
titled, 'The British people's Justification.'

It is superb.

Verdadtoo-- organized crime, often with an element of prostitution and/or human trafficking, is an unfortunate and pervasive element of modern society. That said, many Islamic countries are not only willing participants (or inclined to look the other way), but particularly good at it.

As for your claim that the Israelis originated that sort of thing, check out White Gold by Giles Milton.

"The trial came amid growing concern at the attitudes of some Asian men towards white girls which campaigners for women claim few people wish to address. " from the article linked below

No mention of Islam? Isn't the main point here not the "culture" (sensu lato) of "south Asia" but rather Islam itself, which goes unmentioned, though the hint is everywhere in the air? In Islam, Infidels are fair game. The point is not that "white girls" are easy, but that they are Infidels, and easy or hard to get, it is licit, it is in fact admirable, for Muslim men to take advantage in every way of the Infidels. There have been sermons preached in mosques in Europe about why taking things -- that is, stealing -- from the Infidels is licit, as a means of informally imposing the"jizyah" that, as yet, when Muslims do not yet dominate, cannot be imposed from above.

Why should any Muslim care if other Muslims do whatever they will with those seen not as individuals but as "their" (Infidel) women, and "their" property, part of the booty that, by all that is holy and right by those who follow the Path of Allah, fi sabih Allah, available to Muslims. Make those girls shake their booty, before you take that booty. It all belongs to you.

And why do other Muslims not speak out? Why should they? On what grounds would they morally object to Muslims taking advantage, whenever and wherever they can, to Infidels, and to their "loose slutty womens" (as one Muslim commentator at Jihad Watch likes to call them)? The only grounds for objection is that it calls attention, it harms "the image of Islam," and therefore, too early, arouses the anger and attention of Infidels. And we don't want them aroused, we don't want them to turn their attention too closely to Islam, its texts, its tenets, its attitudes, its atmospherics. Some of them might actually begin to reason through the whole matter. Some of them might see beyond the traditional fare - thin gruel indeed -- of the philo-Islamic Defenders of the Faith found in the BBC and The Guardian and other parts of the English, as of the European and world, media. Many, though not all, are prompted not so much by love of Islam, as by a reflexive antisemitism and anti-Americanism that causes them to pooh-pooh the matter of Islam, just as in England in the 1930s, those infected with antisemitism had a hard time awakening to the menace of "Mr. Hitler."

This sexual attack is not only a matter of individual Muslims, but of a general Muslim attitude that is rooted in, comes naturally out of, the texts and tenets of Islam. That needs to be understood. It needs to be publicized -- not least by those who are non-Muslim "Asians" and have been made to suffer by the idiotic attempt to refrain from identifying Muslims as Muslims.

There used to be a tradition in Southern Appalachia; men who were discovered trying to seduce very young girls were either shot or scared to the point that they never tried that again or else fled the county. As for the sheriff arresting the young lady's protector, forget about it.

Oh, how I long for the good old days.

Watch out Hugh, if I remember some poor Dutch filmmaker had an issue with the local Mohammedan after exposing their misogynist ways. And exposing their misogyny, xenophobic and islam supremacist ways like you do, I just have to say, “Stay safe and keep up the good work.”

These men act this way because they are Muslim and not because there victims are non-Muslim. In other words this is how they treat there own women.

It's funny isn't it, how heavily religious societies bleat on all the time about morality, and decadence, but somehow have a blinkered view of what morality actually is.
It's not because Asian men aren't regarded as suitable husband material by white women that this sort of thing happens, it's because they are taught from birth that women are no better than objects, compared to men, worth nothing.
This deeply misogynistic mindset means that Asian women are treated as throwaway commodities, when this attitude is coupled with the generally racist, supremacist nature of Islam, why should it be a surprise that white women are considered to be nothing more than scum. It's not far off what they consider white people, and white culture to be after all.
Time to wake up now.

If the U.K. keeps on its present course, these girls will be legal Sharia slaves in a few decades, and the problem will be solved.

Mohammad had sex slaves.

He was "perfect".

Ergo...

This happens in Sweden too. What the HELL kind of men let their daughters be used like disposable sex toys? Either there will be an explosion of rage or Europe is doomed.

the british national party exposed this 2 years ago! but were vilified in the press for spreading "racial hatred".
you guys need to start supporting the british national party, we have EXACTLY the same views and idealology as you.

The Islamic aspects of this exploitation of these teenage girls pertain to religion, gender, and race. Regarding "race," Islam is, among other things, a vehicle for Arab supremacism, and that includes racial* aspects. *Insofar as "Arab" is conceived within Islam as a race or tribe of superior people. Although the Hadith do contain some contradictory statements on this issue, the weight of the sahih Hadith, on my reading, favor Arab supremacism. Islamic law has also tended to favor Arabs over whites (e.g., permitting the latter to be enslaved but not the former), and has favored both over blacks. Thus, there is an Islamic basis for any racial discrimination that is present in this case, insofar as the victims of this racism are non-Arab.

It should also be realized that racism is still widespread in Islamic- and particularly Arab-Muslim societies, such as Saudi Arabia. The ideal skin color in Islamic societies is the complexion attributed to Muhammad and the Quraysh, i.e., a relatively light-skinned Arab. One example of the persistence of Arab supremacism is the requirement in Islamic law, to this day (e.g., see The Reliance of the Traveller), that the caliph must be descended from the Quraysh, i.e., must be an Arab, preferably related (in bloodline) as closely to Muhammad as possible.

Some links and quotes on sex slavery in Islam:

http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/SexInIslam/sex_and_sexuality_in_islam5.htm

http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/WomenInIslam/women_in_islam7.htm

http://islam-watch.org/CommunityServer/forums/thread/62.aspx

http://www.synergyaids.com/documents/Turkey_GenderSex&CriminalLaws.pdf
Well-researched article. See especially pp. 33-43 on Rape

http://www.hrtribune.com/report/Thesis_Jenny3.pdf
Rape as Genocide Under International Criminal Law: The Case of Bangladesh.
Thesis by Jenny Lundström. Lund University. Global Human Rights Defence.
Excerpts:
“In Bangladesh, gang rape has become a major tool of political terror, forcing minorities to flee and has proven more effective than murder. The victims have all been belonging to ethnic/religious minorities.* Neither little girls nor pregnant women and the elderly are spared. The perpetrators are men belonging to various branches of Muslim extremist political parties, including direct branches of the ruling BNP (e.g., various student wings of BNP like JCD and Jubo Dal. In many cases the rapists are closely related to BNP leaders.” Page 31.

Bolding added.
BNP. Bangladesh Nationalist Party
*Note: Victims referred to here are the Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Ahmadis.

Page 34. “The rapes taking place in Bangladesh are often associated with brutal violence (e.g., beatings, cuttings, and the forceful insertion of objects into the vagina) and a great majority of are gang rapes that takes place in front of the victim’s husband, children, or parents. The investigative material from human rights organizations like GHRD provides countless examples of how victims have suffered physically and mentally as a result of rape. A victim as young as four years old was gang-raped in Jhenida and the rape was initiated by a local leader of Jatiyatabadi Chhatra Dal, (JCD) a student wing of the BNP. In order for the perpetrators to enable the act they had to first cut her vagina open with a knife.”

Page 38. “…the rapes in Bangladesh are taking place in a generally discriminatory structure and are supplemented by additional systematic attacks (killings, arson, destruction of cultural and religious places and other violence).”

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=10382&ln=eng&txt
An imam's Islamic text-supported approval of having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife. (Mar. 5/ 07. This link was cited in the above article but was subsequently moved).
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/lewis1.html
Bernard Lewis. Race and Slavery in the Middle East
Oxford Univ Press 1994.
Chpt. 1 Slavery
Lewis: “A Muslim slaveowner was entitled by law to the sexual enjoyment of his slave women.”

http://voi.org/books/mssmi/ch12.htm
CHAPTER XII: SEX SLAVERY
Muslim Slave System in Medieval India
K.S. Lal. Aditya Prakashan, New Delhi

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 637:
Narrated Buraida:
The Prophet sent 'Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and 'Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."

(Sahih Muslim) "Chapter 29: IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN AFTER SHE IS PURIFIED (OF MENSES OR DELIVERY) IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE"

Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3432 (also 3433, 3434):
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: "And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).

leonthepigfarmer so why doesn't the BNP do something about this rather than just "exposing" this?

A campaign against the rapists and their families where you spread posters with their pictures and adresses to warn people all over the town and urge them and their families to leave Britain is in my opinion the least you could do.

European Crusader

leonthepigfarmer so why doesn't the BNP do something about this rather than just "exposing" this?

The BNP have been active on this issue

Well, the time has come to make a stand on behalf of the neglected and abused White Roses of Keighley and Yorkshire. Islamophile police chiefs and Labour politicians must be shown that they can no longer appease ‘minority’ sensibilities without facing corresponding pressure from the majority community.

Every BNP branch and group in the country is expected to lay on transport and start mobilising activists NOW. We’re going to make this the largest demonstration in the history of the British National Party. As the demo is taking place on Guy Fawkes Night, those travelling long distances are also invited to bring their families, and to stay on into the evening and attend a big Yorkshire BNP Bonfire Night celebration and social, complete with fireworks, bonfire, burning Guys, refreshments and entertainment
http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=534

BNP leader 'claimed Qur'an allows rape of non-Muslims'

Martin Wainwright
Wednesday January 18, 2006
The Guardian

Secretly filmed tirades against Muslims and Asians by the leader of the British National party, Nick Griffin, were described to a jury yesterday, including claims that rape and paedophilia against non-believers were countenanced by the Qur'an.
At private party meetings, the Cambridge graduate who has immersed himself in far-right politics for nearly 30 years described parts of Britain as "multiracial hellholes" targeted by a supposed Asian Muslim plan for global conquest.

Films of his speeches in small West Yorkshire towns two years ago were broadcast by a BBC TV undercover team last summer, leading to police action against half-a-dozen BNP activists. Mr Griffin, 45, and former Leeds council candidate Mark Collett, 24, deny 12 charges of using words or behaviour intended or likely to stir up racial hatred.

Opening a two-week trial at Leeds crown court, Rodney Jameson QC, prosecuting, said Mr Griffin had focused on paedophile drug rape in a recruiting speech in Keighley in January 2004. The town had just seen a gang of British Asian youths jailed for violence, drug dealing and sexual assault on under-age girls.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/race/story/0,,1688593,00.html

The Speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhV34MnceoM

When the islamic terror came to Kashmir in the 80's and 90's, the moslems used to leave notices on the doors of the Hindu Pandits, the Sikhs and others saying words to the effect, "get out, but leave your women behind"

Hindu, Sikh girls have had to suffer this at British Universities and Colleges for years.

It was good to see in the comments section so many people especially Indians questioning the use of the "Asian" word.

People are waking up.

Have Mercy

Perhaps some of this kind of dicipline should be more liberally adminitered to prevent "collapsing socially, morally, intellectually, religiously, politically and demographically" western societies.

Italy: Court discriminates against Muslim girls

Apparently, if you're a Moroccan in Italy you don't have the same rights as ethnic Italians.

The Italian supreme court recently rejected an appeal by the prosecution in the case of a Moroccan girl who had been beaten by her family, her parents and her brother. The appeal was rejected on the grounds that it was for her own good and for her non-conformity with their culture, she had gone out with a friend and her life style was not accepted by her parents.

This story starts in 2003 when the parents of Fatima R. (19), a Muslim girl from Bologna, were sentenced for tying Fatima up and beating her. The court of appeals reversed the decision and this past week the supreme court confirmed it.

According to the Italian judges that girl had not been beaten out of anger and it was unusual for the father, who had only beat his daughter three times in his life.

According to the prosecution Fatima had been tied to a chair and released only to be brutally beaten. However the supreme court ruled that Fatima had threatened suicide out of her fear and that she had been tied up in order to prevent her from doing so.

Souad Sbai of the Italian Association of Moroccan Women said that this decision was worthy of an Arab country which observed sharia law. and accused the judges of applying a double standard in the name of multiculturalism. According to Sbai a Catholic father in a similar case would have been harshly punished. Sbai says that there is excessive tolerance towards certain behaviors both from the right and left wing, who prefer political correctness over applying the Italian law.

According to the Italian Association of Moroccan Women at least nine Muslim women have been killed by their relatives in the past year.

So not offending Muslims with the problem of Islamic Pedophilia is more important than the dignity of the children themselves. How low Western culture has fallen that it will not even rise to protect its children.

I am still waiting for the Canada's Vision TV to do a show on the evidence of Mohammad's pedophilia in the authoritative hadith. It seems that everything sacred to Christians and Jews is open season to Vision RV, but then no one in Canada should offend Muslims, even with their tradition of child abuse!

‘STOP THE ISLAMIFICATION OF EUROPE’ DEMONSTRATION (11th SEPT)

Freddy Thielmans, Mayor of Brussels, has banned a demonstration which was scheduled to take place on Tuesday 11th September at 1pm outside the building of the European Parliament to protest against the relentless ‘Islamification of Europe’. The organisers are now mounting a formal legal challenge to the Mayor’s right to take this action.

Until this matter is properly resolved they cannot endorse or accept any responsibility for any protest made by any individual or group of individuals.

However the Mayor of Brussels has no power to prevent tourists from visiting his city. Visitors to this website might like to consult ‘sioe.wordpress.com’ to gain helpful information about visitor amenities and tourist attractions in Brussels.

Did anyone watch CBS's "Sunday Morning" program today?
They did an interview with Cat Stevens (aka Yusuf Islam). It was nauseating to watch them treat him so sympathetically and tip-toe around his endorsement of the death sentence against Rusdie. You can watch it here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/sunday/main3445.shtml

If anyone finds the time to write CBS (I will) here is what Mr. "Islam" really said in 1989:

NYT May 23, 1989: "Cat Stevens Gives Support To Call for Death of Rushdie," by Craig R. Whitney:

LONDON, May 22 -- The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.

Parents have complained that in parts of the country with large Asian communities white girls as young as 12 are being targeted for sex by older Asian men yet the authorities are unwilling to act because of fears of being labelled racist.

The authorities are unwilling to act?

Why, are the “authorities unwilling to act? Is it because they don’t want to be in harms why? Because they might be physically assaulted? Are they unwilling to act because they might enflame the rage of the world’s billions of muslims?

No, of course none of these. The British authorities are unwilling to act …because of fears ….

What fears have cause so much dread among the British authorities that they are so willing to sacrifice their daughters as young as 12 years old for sex by older MUSLIM men?

The British authorities are dreadfully afraid of being labelled racist.

So, because the British authorities are afraid of being called racists by older muslim men, they are willing to prostitute their children for the perverse sexual appetite of muslim child-molesters, so they can be remain comforted by the notion that they are not labeled as racists?

Have I left out anything? Have I misquoted? Where?

If this is true, I am not sure if I should feel pity or disgust for the British for allowing this sad state of affairs to exist in the first place; and for allowing it to continue.

Leon, the BNP is anti-Jewish and it seems you don't have a taste for the Serbs, Hindus or Middle Eastern Christians either and we're all together in this. Your view may match most other people's on this site about Islam but that's where the similarities stop.

The voters in the UK are really stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one side dhimmies galore (all three parties), on the other the BNP.

LondonBorn&Bred: can that demonstration not be relocated where it'd still be legal? I'm just concerned that some people won't show if technically illegal (is it really?) to gather. Or maybe I'm getting this all wrong and you should not bend to the will of the Ummah and that dhimmi mayor in your own countries.

Here is a copy of the letter I sent them:

Your Sunday Morning program on Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam) was thoroughly nauseating. They way you tip-toed around his endorsement of the death sentence on Salmon Rushdie demonstrates either a lack of journalistic courage or unwillingness to do your homework. Just in case you forgot what he really said. Here is the link to the New York Times article from 1989:

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-cat.html

And just in case you think we was misquoted, here is a video of "Mr. Islam" on a British show in 1989:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7KnWHDFsjo

You should be ashamed!

Sincerely,

XXXXXXX

SerbInfidel

rubbish!

the BNP have a jewish councillor in their ranks. the BNP are pro israel.
http://www.somethingjewish.co.uk/articles/1009_bnp_jewish_win.htm

http://www.bnp.org.uk/columnists/brimstone2.php?leeId=80

maybe she hates herself? eh serb?

serbinfidel, why not write to her and complain?

serbinfidel.

"I support Israel 100%" writes BNP chief polemicist Lee Barnes with Griffin's blessing. "In fact, I hope they wipe Hezbollah off the Lebanese map and bomb them until they leave large greasy craters in the cities where their Islamic extremist cantons of terror once stood."

Islam and the Jihad would not have been as much of a threat if Western Societies were not collapsing socially, morally, intellectually, religiously, politically and demographically.
(from Has Mercy)

I agree but believe a tremendous upsurge in spiritual revival is in the works for the American youth and it will not be in the form of the imposters that presently occupy the leadership of mainstream religious organisations.
Our human spirit comes equipped with the capacity to find the truth even if submerged in the sea of decadence as you describe. Sometimes "rock bottom" reality is the only way to discover that truth and Western youth have been placed on the "Highway to Hell" a long time ago. The realization of truth coupled with the Islamic advancement of intellectual and spiritual slavery will spring a violent reaction in our children that will make the Crusades look like child's play.

have_mercy -- Your characterization of white women is wildly inaccurate. This is the second post of yours that I've read in which you have said some nasty things about all white women.

You sound like a racist misogynist to me.

Next thing, you'll be calling us all uncovered meat.

Leon, you never replied Matamoros in this thread on the same topic.

SerbInfidel

SerbInfidel:

That thread with Matamoros was going nowhere. And so is your argument.

Go and research the BNP yourself. You didn't even respond to Leon's link about the Jewish councilmember, so don't dredge up alleged "unanswered" comments.

Kettle calling the pot black.

Josephine:

havemercy has a point. I don't think it's misogynistic to criticize the shortcomings of the female persuasion, and I speak as a woman.

We women in western civilization have experienced so much freedom that is historically unparalleled. Wouldn't you agree that we have also abused that freedom? Rampant promiscuity, immodesty, violent behavior, teenage pregnancy, abortion... all these are done by women as well as men.

I think it's true that we in the West must clean up our act and become a VIRTUOUS society, which is the backbone of a strong and prosperous nation. Far better to be a Stoic than a Bacchic reveler, as history proves. We will not be able to fight off Islam if we continue to promote a debauched and permissive society.

have mercy-

This article is not talking about mature women, who are entitled to make stupid decisions. It is talking about UNDERAGE GIRLS.

Children are to be protected, whether they want to be protected or not. That is the job of parents, that is the job of society.

Children do not have the life experience or smarts to deal with adults as equals, particlarly predatory adults.

I am shocked that you don't understand this, and I'm also shocked by your lack of protectiveness towards the young and vulnerable.

Pic of the day

http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2007/08/pic-of-the-da-1.html

Sex and Islam Sex and Islam Sex and Islam. At the CORE of Islam is Mohammed's sexual pathologies and his HATRED and fear of women and the cruelties he institutionalized as 'the Will of Allah'. The sexually frustrated rage of young males was and is the 'fuel' of Jihad and the cornerstone of this so-called 'religion'.

atheling -- Freedom is freedom. In Western democracies, women and men have equal rights to behave in certain ways.

Morality is not the same as freedom. One person's morality is not necessarily shared by another.

Our freedom is guaranteed by law and our morality is not dictated by law.

If I behave in a way that you (I'm speaking in generalities) feel is immoral, should my freedom be removed or limited? No, my freedom is mine to do with as I choose, within the law.

It has been proven, again and again, that sexy clothing, a nice figure or a certain demeanor do not provoke or cause rape. Men rape because they get off on it and because they think they can get away with it (the same is true for female sexual deviants).

Just because Muslim men (in these cases) are taking their time and "seducing" young girls doesn't mean these minors have not been coerced into something that is illegal and demeaning to them. I don't care what style of clothing these girls wear: it is irrelevant.

If you had a bunch of dirty old white men doing this it would be wrong, even if said men were well-dressed and good-looking like these Muslims supposedly are.

Your argument, and havemercy's, is not far from the one that suggests that if only white girls were more chaste like Muslim girls they wouldn't be such easy targets. If only white girls kept their legs together like Muslim girls... If only they went to church more... If only they wore hijabs, then Muslim men wouldn't be driven wild by their sexy hair...

In other words, they brought it on themselves.

In other words, you can't blame the cat for eating the uncovered meat.

I believe that our freedom rests on our defense of our rights and freedoms, as enshrined in our democracies, and not on our virtue.

And thank God for that because, if you look back in history, you'll find the same rampant lack of virtue, and we still managed to build these excellent countries of ours.

And you do know that "grooming" is precisely what pedophiles, perverts and pimps do, don't you?

I haven't figured out what upsets me more the fact that those in charge are afraid to do anything about the islamist freakshow or the fact that they make up excuses for the freakshow and the leaders cowardice.

Excuses do not give back to those girls what was taken from them.Also if there is any profiling and racism to point out lets start looking at what goes on toward the white people for a change.Or quite plainly all infedels.

We do after all have to remember the eye for an eye devine knowledge sent to the freakshow by the head freak.

Still it's good to know that excuses are all you have to have to be a successful rotten stinking politician.

At my place of work an excuse is worthless.One needs to be able to state the truth of what went wrong (the facts) and then what needs to be done to make it correct (the answer).

There are NO fucking excuses for any of this shit.

I am sick and tired and fed up with excuses,excuses,excuses.The excuse maker is a weak minded person and will NEVER be able to accomplish a DAMN thing that we need to accomplish.

The facts and the answers are whats missing in every stinking report or mention of this freakshow attitude.

Screw islam and all thier appeasers i don't give a damn who they are, they are nothing but filth.

Now i will let the politicaly correct and multicultural police scrutinize my hatefilled and fowl mouthed post so while i am at i may as well flip CAIR the bird.A shove it up your stinking muslim ass to HOOPER and a you can all kiss my hairy ass to the umma.

Islam sucks it's a piece of shit muhammad was a fag and allah is his name when in drag.

Now i know this post will be deleted but at least the moderator got my point....I hope.

Signed Tired and fed up in Dar Al-Harb

One should read the comments of the ayatollah Khomeini in regard to sex with young girls allowing "thighing" to ejaculation when the victim of the Muslim male is to young to "penetrate". Tell me again that this beastial act has no origin in the Islamic religious chain. If one could post this, I would appreciate this along with his instructions on having "proper sex" with animals. Perhaps the Australians can further enlighten us about the gang rapes of young Australian girls as manifestation ethnic religious brutality and Muslim manhood. As their prophet does so do the thugs of Islam.

Josephine -

Wonderful replies to atheling and have_mercy. For one thing, it's distracting from the issue of women and GIRLS being seen as non-humans; prey. For another: anyone quick to blame our morals should Google Sayyid Qutb, who freaked out over our "vulgar culture" circa 1948-50. What offended him, Betty Crocker??

I'm pretty conservative myself and I'll be the first to admit some stuff my generation does makes me shake my head, but it's a VERY slippery slope from "we need to clean up our act" to "thy hijab, woman!!" And anyway, that's not the issue here.

*fume*

GoldieLox -- Thank you.

Josephine:

There is a difference between freedom and libertinism.

You still think the West doesn't need to accept any responsibility for the shortcomings of our society?

Tell me, do you think Paris Hilton is a good role model for girls? Brittany Spears? Do you think it's okay for 14 year old girls to give boys blow jobs at "lipstick parties"? Do you think it's okay for a 6 year old child to wear thong underwear?

Give me a break! I'm criticizing those aspects of our society! Your refusal to do any self examination regarding our society is intellectually dishonest!

My, what a pretty collection of views we have in this thread: Israel controls the white slave trade; western women need to become more virtuous because freedom has made them immoral; and yet more propaganda and publicity for a British neo-fascist party that described the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as a "neo-con adventure on behalf of the Zionist government of Israel".

Forgive me, but I was under the impression that this site was for those who opposed Islamism? Because judging from several of the posts above, quite a few posters on here appear to share at least some of the Islamists' beliefs.

I wonder how many of the people making these posts criticised Ibrahim Hooper over the CAIR smear job on Robert Spencer a couple of weeks back? Well, CAIR doesn't need to waste time planting posts to smear Jihadwatch - the neo-Nazi propagandists and the religious weirdos attacking female "immorality" are doing their job for them.

"Give me a break! I'm criticizing those aspects of our society! Your refusal to do any self examination regarding our society is intellectually dishonest!"
Posted by: atheling

atheling -- I was examining your statements in light of the article posted at the top of this comment thread, which is about Muslim perverts grooming little white girls for sex and about our politically correct society not wanting to call attention to it.

This has nothing to do with me or my morals or the morals of the young victims in question.

Whatever the shortcomings of our society might be, it does not now, nor will it ever, excuse sexual abuse, molestation, rape or pimping of little girls, little boys or any vulnerable member of our society.

Paris and Brittany are neither role models (ugh!) nor excuses for what's happening here.

The question is, what are we going to do about it?

What does Paris and Britney have to do with Muslim perverts?

Actually the most disturbing thing about this whole story is law enforcement not willing to protect the kids because it might upset the "Asians".

First, and most importantly, loud cheers for Hugh's posting - THE problem is Muslim attitudes toward ANY AND ALL non-Muslim women, as taught by their texts, practised throughout history, and manifested today by Muslim men in the midst of our societies. That is what our MSM needs to get their heads around - and start publicising! Whether the girls thus mistreated were 'good' or 'bad' is quite irrelevant.

Second: to atheling - let us not flagellate ourselves with the whip provided by (grossly hypocritical) Muslims. Muslims have ALWAYS professed themselves shocked! by the 'immorality' of non-muslim societies, and by what they choose to regard as the licentiousness, i.e., the freedom and public empowerment of our women - which provides Muslims with the excuse for rape, enslavement, pillage and conquest, since our 'immorality' must be punished.

As for the 'morality' of past eras - have a good think about the career of Eleanor of Aquitaine.

I agree fully with the postings by Briars and Josephine, also Treehugger and Goldielox. Hear hear!!

No matter how silly these girls may have been, they should be rescued, protected, healed and educated, not written off in disgust.

I suspect the seduction of western girls by Muslims may be not so much to do with the girls' 'immorality', as with the atrocious state of ignorance in our entire society, concerning Islam-on-the-ground. Phyllis Chesler, redoubtable Jewish feminist, in her foolish salad days married a plausible Afghan princeling and went to Afghanistan. She soon worked out she was in a trap and - to do her credit - managed to escape; ever since she has been under no illusions as to Muslim treatment of women. See also 'Not Without My Daughter'. Deceit appears to be second-nature to Muslims - we should not be too hard on those who fall for the taqiyya, especially if they are young and naive. The trick is to share the stories of those women who have learned the hard way, so as to warn our daughters and our friends.

I note that in the specific case under discussion, one girl was in foster care and the other in a children's home - it seems likely that their birth families may have abused them. In which case, pray, just how 'free' were they? What capacity did they have, to practise intelligent choices? A child who is abused (sexually or otherwise) tends to have no clearly defined sense of self, no boundaries, no awareness that they can say No when someone is making destructive demands upon them - and they are horribly vulnerable both to substance abuse and seductive flatterers.

As for you, have-mercy, in reply to your slanderous rant against the Wickedness of Modern Girls: there was no proof anywhere in the story that the other girls mentioned, 'as young as 12', who had also been preyed upon by Muslims, were all little delinquents. For all we know, girls are being harassed, solicited and even abducted while innocently walking to school, waiting at a bus stop, or strolling through the shopping mall with a friend. Are they 'asking for it', merely by being out in public without a Chaperone?

Why should the conduct of the two girls in the news story, be assumed to be typical of ALL girls 20-and-under in ALL 'western' societies. I object to have-mercy's sweeping assumption that my beautiful, naive 13 year old, or her friends, or my various nieces, cousins and their friends, because they are young girls in a modern Western country, are ipso facto dirty little sluts and that they are dooming Western civilisation to destruction.

Yes, my younger brother's wife had an illegitimate daughter in her teen years. But she is now married to my brother; they have subsequently produced three children together, living like pioneers in a bush hut without electricity or running water, working their guts out - my brother carpentering, my sister-in-law doing the housewife/ mother thing very efficiently and devotedly. Yes, my friend's daughter (at age 19) lived with her boyfriend and had a baby - but said boyfriend is an engineer, working hard, supporting the girl through her university law degree and they are getting married this month.

In the 1970s my father's brother married a University medallist - a brilliant woman who has completed her career as a diplomat by becoming Australia's ambassador to a major European country. They have two beautiful and brilliant daughters, one of whom won a Rhodes scholarship to study international law. I presume, have-mercy, that you would think my uncle was a pussy-whipped wimp: that he should have put his foot down, ended his wife's career upon their marriage, stuffed her into a pumpkin shell and kept her barefoot and pregnant - rather than becoming her steadfast domestic anchorman? Can you not imagine that he might ENJOY watching her fly high and fast, as the falconer delights in the flight of the hunting hawk?

Atheling, have-mercy: I refuse to blame 'Wicked Western Women With Too Much Freedom' for all the ills of Western civilisation, OR for the unbridled lust of Muslim would-be slave-raiders.

Because you seem to be implying that to Save the World, all we have to do is Punish the Bad Girls and Put Women Back in Their Place (kinder,kirche, kuche, 'children, church, and kitchen', as the Nazis used to say). How do you propose to do that, exactly? Not, I hope, by measures such as disenfranchisement of all women, excluding women from all paid employment and from higher education, banning all contraception, forbidding divorce, revoking the Married Womens Property Act, etc etc. Though I do have a horrid suspicion you might be thinking along those lines. I don't think Ayaan Hirsi Ali would agree with you if you wanted to impose those kinds of rules to Bring Women Into Line. Nor would that virtuous Jewish matron - and university graduate - Bat Yeor.

Atheling and have-mercy - to repeat, I object to the stereotyping of ALL younger Western women as either sex-crazed wild teen sluts (who don't know how to OBEY a man, like proper girls should), or as EEVIL 'Sex in the City' careerist castrating baby-hating bitches. It sounds like you're watching way too much trash tv.

Have-mercy: since you hold up Little House on the Prairie as an ideal, go read the original books by Laura Ingalls Wilder. Laura in her teens held down several jobs (sewing, teaching) and earned good money; and when she and Almanzo decide to marry, she makes it clear that she has no intention of saying 'obey' in the marriage vows, and that the preacher supports this. Laura and Almanzo's daughter, Rose, grew up to be a career woman - a fearless reporter and journalist like Oriana Fallaci, visiting places like Albania and, in her grand old age, the Vietnam war zone.

The misuse of freedom by some women (and men, too) is no justification for removal of freedom from all and the top-down imposition of a harshly punitive moralism. If we did that we would become merely a mirror image of Islam, whose whole system is driven by the terror of temporal and eternal punishment.

See the Salvation Army and the Methodist Revival - or Wilkerson's The Cross and the Switchblade, or Jackie Pullinger's Chasing the Dragon - to see how Christianity goes about restoring humans from the inside out and from the ground up. Sceptics can laugh all they like. But it happens, Christianity (not pagan Stoicism!) is perfectly capable of healing all the West's 'lost' children - AND de-programming Muslims, into the bargain - without us women losing any of the freedoms we currently have.

So, have-mercy, I am not about to despair anytime soon. You can sit in a dustbin like Oscar the Grouch and sneer - I'll just get on with raising my two young daughters to be strong, smart, loving - FREE - women who can tell a good man from a bad, and who will be extremely unlikely to be seduced by a Muslim, since they will know all about Islam and how it treats its women.

dumbledoresarmy -- Brilliant. Thank you.

Alcohol is forbidden in the accused perps culture, providing it to a minor a crime in the west.

Drugs is a crime and forbidden in both. Rape of a minor is in the west, and inhumane anywhere.

Ms Cryer blames the crime on the fact that these youths were caught between the two. Seems to me she got something wrong, both cultures look down on these crimes. If is wrong in both worlds why is it ok for person from one culture to do it to another. If it wasn't for the fact they were trapped in a bad country this would have happened. Ms Cryer I hope your children never even hear of crimes like these let alone live through them. Because of people like you families go through a lot of pain because you either push agenda, or believe the lies they weave.

Only when the western culture becomes the perfect model of p.c. will they painfully learn the world is not.

Matamoron:

Reading the opnions in The Times I found two recurring themes: Asians pissed off that they were washed with the same brush as Muslims from Pakistan and a high regard for the BNP as seeing the problem years before it hit the MSM. You better blurt your propaganda machine all around Britain as I suspect quite a few voters will be listening to what the BNP has to say now!!! and not what it said thirty years ago. I think you were sent by the Labour party to invade this site although you Labour lackies were responsible for not protecting these children because they are infested with Islamophobia (fear of Islamic thugs) and securing Muslim votes for its rapidly sinking, decadent excuse for a party.
Love, Briars

Matamoros -- OT

http://www.passiveaggressivenotes.com/

"Why do White people not want admit it! A huge percentage of White girls are just out of control. Any stinking ghetto freak with a pocket full of drugs has attractive white girls buzzing around him—it is a fact. Older whites have buried their heads in the sand about how degenerate their daughters have become or they simply do not care"

Posted by: have_mercy at August 12, 2007 12:10 PM

I take HUGE exception to much of what is posted in this, but in it, I hate to say, there is a kernel of truth. I live in Toronto Canada and sad to say but it is true, so many young white girls seem enthralled with the thug (and foreign, Muslim culture included), pushing their strollers along the streets with the products of the union with their "baby daddies", probably not past the age of 15, on welfare, their next kid, or the next or the next, with a different father, "thugs in training" going through my mind as I see them pass.

The part I take exception with is that the "older white people" don't care". That is just SO not true, at least in my case. My oldest daughter became enamoured of the "thug" culture at age 14, I have NO idea why or how, NOTHING I did or said or how I lived would have given her that inclination. It is in larger part to the proliferation and glamorization of the thug lifestyle and culture pushed by the media and social structures of city living. I tried everything and went through hell to do what I knew how to disabuse her of this lifestyle but to no avail.

I can only hope that the best way to counter these influences is to make sure the females be given a loving positive continous male influence in the family structure and that they are constantly given the message that they are strong, competent, self-reliant, worthy and don't need a male, any male, to validate their existence.

Marisol,

I've been reading Robert C. Davis's book on Barbary Slavery. Maybe Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton should read it. All that the white European slaves endured was horrific. The muslims preferred white, Eastern European girls for their harams as well, if I remember correctly.

Nice try, verdadtoo......

These are probably the same "Asian" men who will talk non stop about how the west is void of any morals. Um...it seems they have the morals of an alleycat.

“At the point in their lives when they are ready for this sort of activity, Asians cannot go to Asian girls because it would be a terrible breach of the honour of the community and their family to have sex with an Asian girl before marriage.”

But it is no breach of honor to have illicit sex with a white girl? Sounds racist to me.

These definitions were found on Wikipedia and quote from the Census Bureau:

"Asian. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, the Philippine Islands, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, Japan, Cambodia, China, Korea, Thailand, and Vietnam."

"White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa."

If the U.K. uses the same definitions for race, than the lady has it right. My guess is that because Pakistan was once a part of India, and India being part of Asia, the trend to refer to them as Asian continues.

It's not about race most fathers I know no matter race or ethnic back ground would not be happy with a older man plying their daughters with dope and booze. Oh and include mothers on top that list, sorry did not mean to forget. All children no matter what age slide a little from time to time. Laws are set up to protect people by making stiff penalties for those who take unfair advantage of it. A government representative making excuses for criminal behavior over a crime against a child is wrong. Might even be more so then the crime itself. The people we elect ignore the problem, so we complain. Then the government tells us we are the problem while we are being hurt. Why were these children allowed to leave with these men? If these girls do not have the parents in place to protect them it is up to the state to do so. Sounds like negligence maybe.

"Despite being told explicitly by police and social services that both girls were under-age and should be returned to care, the men picked up one girl from a children’s home in Blackburn and then drove on to collect her friend who was living in temporary foster care in North Wales."

If you go to liveleak.com and do a search for "Pakistan back alley" you might get a little more understanding on how Asian men view Asian women.
Kinda reminded me of travel shows of the Netherlands. Maybe the cultures aren't so far off after all.

Why would women need to covert to Islam to live a modest and pure life?

Have mercy

I was willing to give you a break on some of what you said. But no more.

Did you not get what I said? It was not for lack of trying with my daughter that she fell in love with thug culture. Are you a parent? A parent of a girl? Do you understand the torrent you are swimming against in this day and age? I was anything but lax or indifferent or immoral in raising my kids. Newsflash for you - despite parents' best efforts, kids do turn out bad sometimes.

You really have to knock off with the sweeping generalizations. They totally take the wind out of your sails with any points you are trying to put across.

Yes, our culture could use some work but some of the arguments espoused her are disturbing. As another reader posted, they do sound like "kinder, kirche, kuchen". I'm also suspicious because they focus on the "white girls buzzing" around the "ghetto freak" and don't call out the "freak" himself. Focus on correcting BOTH and you might get my attention.

Remember, Qutb thought American women were too free and "nasty" after watching them at a dance in a church basement in 1948, way before our culture started to be so lax, and his thinking influences hard-line Islamics to this day. (Never mind a lot of the women were probably dancing with their husbands.) That was his perception and that's the issue - that we could be perceived as fair game simply because we're not in a hijab. And if you're not of legal age, any man that approaches you is SCUM, I don't care what you're wearing, I don't care what idiots our culture holds up as "role models".

Again, what are we going to do about this?

Assalamau Laikum all,

Well this is a bit rich now...with all the blame coming Islam's way.

I HAVE BEEN WARNING YOU FOR YEARS about the wild slutty nature of your womens....let's get to the nub of the matter.

Why are white girls targetted...because they are easy meat...they flaunt their meats...they have less bother to get laid.....they lose their virginity at a younger & younger age...they want to drink, smoke and are generally out of control.

It is not just muslim men who target white girls....it is nonn muslim black men too.

You HAVE to look at your own house ...I don't doubt that these muslim men are guilty....I don't doubt that young white girls are targetted....neither do I doubt that many white girls make themselves easy targets....if you don't accept this truth...you are storing trouble for yourselves in the future.

Get them back into the cloth immediately...

Mick_n_NYC:

The UK's colloquial use of the term "Asian" means someone who is indigenous to the following countries:

India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka & Bangladesh.

I also recall Nick Griffin of the - shhhh! don't mention the name of the party - highlighting over two years ago the sexual grooming of young white girls by Muslim men. Of course the mainstream press didn't dare touch the story because they're not allowed to agree with the - shhhh! don't mention the name! - even if they speak the truth.

One local paper in Lancashire did dare to raise the issue over a year ago:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/search/display.var.827754.0.stop_sordid_grooming_of_regions_children_for_sex.php

In the above article from July 11 2006 it states:

LAST week this newspaper highlighted a sickening practice that has been ruining the young lives of dozens of girls across East Lancashire.

As we stated then the subject is a sensitive one but we feel it would be wrong to allow fear of adverse reactions by bigoted racists to stifle public discussion of a very real problem.

[my emphasis]

I emailed Melanie Phillips (Daily Mail - a UK national newspaper) in response to one of her diatribes against the - shhhh! don't mention the name! - to suggest that the Daily Mail should investigate the story because someone other than the - shhhh! don't mention the name! - had. I got no response and there was no subsequent story in the paper.

At Nick Griffin's first politically-motivated trial on those trumped-up race hate charges he was told by the judge that "the truth is no defence".

So there you have it:

If you speak out in the UK about Muslim misdemeanours then you are liable to end up in court for a hate crime, even if what you say is the truth.

George Orwell's 1984 arrived late but it's here now.

I forgot to highlight in my above post that neither the "I" word nor the "M" word get a mention in the article linked to.

Instead the reporter uses the non-inflammatory word "Asian".

At Nick Griffin's first politically-motivated trial on those trumped-up race hate charges he was told by the judge that "the truth is no defence".

The truth is no defence?

Then, that means that the only denfence is anything other than truth.

If this is truly your judicial situation in Britian, then you are already defeated. The game is OVER and England might just as well declare itself an islamic nation, roll over and die.

What is the point of futher resistance to islam??

In that case, the sooner you raise the black flag of islam over No. 10 Downing and Buckingham Palace, the sooner you can accept the dhimmi option officially, and be done with it!

"The turth is no defense" -- good gawd!

THE CAMPAIGN against a Channel 4 documentary portraying Asian men as paedophiles targeting white girls was dramatically axed today
Lester Holloway,

blink.org.uk, May 20

Blink were first to report outrage over the film, called ‘Edge of the City’, and called on Blink readers to complaint to the broadcast regulator Ofcom.

Channel 4 have now bowed to pressure and removed the documentary from its’ schedules.

Muslim leaders criticised the C4 for planning to show such a sensitive and racially inflammatory programme in the middle of the European and regional elections. They welcomed the C4 climbdown.

Critics said C4 had handed the British National Party (BNP) a ‘publicity coup’. The far-right racist group had sought to hijack the programme for their electoral gain, even calling it their own “party political broadcast”.

Following the Blink article Colin Cramphorn, chief constable for West Yorkshire Police, warned Channel 4 that the screening could provoke “a risk to community safety.”

discord
A Channel 4 spokeswoman said: “It has been taken out of the schedule tonight following a decision by the West Yorkshire Police, who feel the timing of the broadcast could raise racial tensions. They felt there was a risk to community safety.

“It has only been pulled on the very specific advice of the police. We intend to broadcast after the elections.”

A statement from the broadcaster said: “We understand that West Yorkshire Police were concerned that as a result of a number of local factors including the forthcoming Local and European Elections, the potential for discord within the local area had been heightened.”

Dr Ghayasuddin Siddiqui, leader of the Muslim Parliament, welcomed C4’s decision to pull the programme as a “sensible stand”, but said they should have taken the decision themselves to pull the programme instead of being forced into it.

He added: “They have to go back again and see child abuse not particularly affecting one racial group, but as a much wider problem. To portray the Asian community in this way is totally misleading. As long as it is presented [fairly] I have no problem; children need to be protected.”

mobilise
Channel 4 had been criticised for not consulting Muslim organisations on the content or timing of the programme. Lee Jasper, senior advisor to London Mayor Ken Livingstone, said he hoped the broadcaster would now take this opportunity to hold special screenings and feedback sessions with Muslims before re-scheduling.

Jasper praised Blink readers for protesting against the film, which was the “primary reason” why C4 and the police were forced to act. He added: “This is a victory for common sense.

“The fact that Channel 4 were forced to take the programme off air means one can only conclude it was potentially very offensive. Blink was right to raise this issue and it’s stance has been vindicated.

“Following on from the decision to take down the Galaxy billboard posters, this again shows what can be achieved when we mobilise.”

Inayat Banglawala, spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, said: “We welcome the decision Channel 4 have taken as a sensible decision, especially in the wake of the BNP trying to create and capitalise on animosity.

“At a time when they are raising racial tensions this move [by Channel 4] will be widely appreciated by the Muslim community.”

outraged
Edge of the City features a two-year police investigation into allegations of Asian men targeting and ‘grooming’ vulnerable young white girls for sex—some as young as eleven.

There are also allegations of rape, abduction and threats to kill made against white girls who attempt to break free from their ‘relationships’ with the men.

The portrayal of Muslim Asian men as child abusers and paedophiles outraged community leaders, some who feared it would become a ‘recruiting sergeant’ for the BNP.

A two-year police investigation in Bradford into under-age sex has led to 12 girls aged between 11 and 16 being identified. Eleven men, mostly Asian, were arrested and eight have been charged with various offences ranging from rape to indecent assault, witness intimidation, abduction and threats to kill. Three girls have been put under special police protection.

A spokeswoman for West Yorkshire Police said: “We made representations [to Channel 4] concerning the timing of the programme. The chief constable wrote to the chief executive of Channel 4 [Mark Thompson] seeking his co-operation in re-scheduling the programme.”

1) Mr. Hussain and Mr. Naveed are to serve five years and eight months. A bit light in my view but better than less time. Are they also to be labeled sex offenders? Will there be constraints on their activities after their release?

2) Where are the women's and family advocacy groups in all of this? Surely this is a situation ready-made for their involvement. Why can't they help put this on the front burner of public attention and help the police to remember their duty to serve and protect?

3) If younger children are being targeted for such attacks, due to their innocence, parents and older siblings need to help street-proof them. Part of the process is making it a point to find out who the friends of your children are and to meet the parents of your kids' friends. Even doing that much sends a strong psychological message to your children that who they associate with matters to you in turn potentially offsetting some of the peer pressure that affects children so drastically.

You know, some of you who have taken offense with have mercy and my posts regarding the criticism of women in western society (and I'm not talking about "whites", I'm talking about western women) are acting like CAIR.

You refuse to accept ANY responsibility for the problems in our society. Instead, you attack us with wild insinuations about our motives, etc...
You would do Ibriham Hooper proud.

I thought that part of living in western society meant that people were allowed to think, critique and dissent. Apparently not, according to you.

NEVER did I "justify" any criminal acts towards women (of any society). NEVER.

However, I did criticize the wild, immoral and horrid behavior we see in our society today, particularly that of women. It seems that many women are incapable or unwilling to take a look at the way they raise their children, at the way they conduct their relationships, and the way they present themselves.

Do you see the GARBAGE that comes out of Hollywood? Do you see the way young girls are emulating sluts like Paris Hilton and Brittany Spears? Apparently no one is permitted to question or criticize the "heros" that our pop culture promotes.

No way do I want to see women wearing burkahs or forced into marriage or stoned for adultery. But that doesn't mean I have to endorse the other extreme now does it?

Grow up. If women can't take any criticism or responsibility for our society's ills then they have just demonstrated that they remain in an infantile state and DON'T DESERVE TO VOTE!

witness:
The truth is no defence? If this is truly your judicial situation in Britain, then you are already defeated. The game is OVER and England might just as well declare itself an islamic nation, roll over and die.

Sorry, witness, but that is not the truth. I’m afraid you’ve fallen for another of the neo-fascist British National Party’s “Big Lies”.

“The truth is no defence” was a remark made by both judge and prosecuting counsel when the BNP’s leader Nick Griffin was put on trial for publishing vile anti-Semitic articles when he edited the party’s now defunct magazine The Rune.

(Which, you will notice, the BNP supporter Watling describes above as a "politically-motivated trial on trumped-up race hate charges")

It was made by the judge in response to Griffin’s defence claim that he did not intend to stir up racial hatred, and that for example by pointing out, in an article titled Inconvenient Facts, that a number of people involved in running the UK’s media were Jewish, he was only stating a fact, telling a truth.

It was explained that Griffin was not on trial for stating this fact, but for the claim that it constituted a sinister Jewish conspiracy to “weaken the national spirit and racial pride of the British people”. Therefore, Griffin’s claim that he was only telling the truth was no defence.

The jury unanimously found Griffin guilty of inciting racial hatred and he was fined £2,300 and was given a 9-month prison sentence, suspended for two years.

Since then, the BNP has used “the truth is no defence” as a rallying cry to justify its claim of a grand conspiracy to silence it. This slogan has been taken up by several other white supremacist organisations and Holocaust denier groups. In his guide for new BNP writers, Griffin writes that “the truth is no defence” in law, and uses the following example:

5) Even more than 'racism', 'anti-Semitism' is the great taboo of our time. We can sometimes get away with criticising Zionists, but any criticism of Jews is likely to be legal and political suicide. There are a very significant number of good and decent Jews, such as Israel Shahak and Jonathan Sacks*, who can get away with criticising the ferocious racism of some of their less pleasant brethren, but that doesn't mean that we can.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/articles/race_act.htm

(*NB: Israel Shahak was an Israeli academic, virulently anti-Israel and anti-Judaism, whose writings are often used by anti-Semites and Islamists to justify their views. Jonathan Sacks is the UK’s former Chief Rabbi who criticised Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians and called for it to use dialogue and diplomacy with Islamist terror groups. Both, in Griffin’s views, are “good and decent Jews”, as opposed to us bad Jews who support Israel defending itself from Arab aggression by any means necessary).

So, 'Asian' (Muslim) men can play the 'racist' card (without having to do it themselves now) regarding their 'cultural' views.

When are the parents of these GIRLS going to play their cards? 'Racism' (anti-White) and 'Sexism' cards are laying there, right on the table...

and, of course, the 'Pedophile' card.

"And Josephine you lost whatever argument you are trying to make when you resorted to name calling (misogynist, racist) instead of trying to counter my argument logically." Posted by: have_mercy

have_mercy -- You were bashing white women and saying these girls deserved it because all white girls are in the gutter already. That is not logical or accurate. I was telling you that it sounded racist and misogynistic to me because it did.

I don't expect to have a logical argument with someone who makes such racist and misogynistic blanket statements against white females. I don't expect to ever be able to convince you of anything and that's why I didn't try.

But don't expect to come here and make such racist misogynistic comments and have no one call you on it.

"NEVER did I "justify" any criminal acts towards women (of any society). NEVER.

"However, I did criticize the wild, immoral and horrid behavior we see in our society today, particularly that of women."

atheling -- So why bring it up if the two are unrelated in your mind?

Why would an article about Muslim men who were convicted of sex crimes against young white girls bring up the subject of the supposedly loose morals of non-Muslim girls and the decadence of Western society today?

One does not cause the other. There were perverts long before MTV and "Sex in the City" came along.

The issue here is Muslim perverts -- sex abusers and pimps -- targeting young white girls.

This type of thing has been going on with Asian (Vietnamese, etc.) and Jamaican gangs here in Canada for a while. Now there is a new gang to worry about: Muslims abusing and pimping our daughters; Muslims getting involved in organized crime and drug trafficking.

There's a new gang in town and its members pledge allegiance to the Koran.

And it's precisely the "religious" angle that has the politicians and police backing off. Muslims wear their "religion" like an "invisibility shield".

Matamoros:

I stand corrected. The "truth is no defence" argument applied to an earlier trial.

The trial I was trying to refer to was the one where Nick Griffin had been secretly filmed by the BBC at a private meeting saying that Islam was a "wicked, vicious faith".

It was also during that speech that he highlighted the sexual grooming of white girls by Muslim men.

Here is the Guardian article about the trial from January 2006:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/otherparties/story/0,,1695165,00.html

which refers to Griffin:

... accusing young Asians of grooming white girls for prostitution

Curiously, both the BBC and the Government thought that it was more important to silence Griffin than it was to investigate the allegations he made, thereby condemning more girls to lives of misery as sex slaves.

The implication is that the BBC and the Government believe that criticising Islam is a more serious crime than forcing girls into prostitution.

Since this topic has taken so many twists, I read the article again.

These girls were taken from group and foster homes, presumably under government direction. One man was warned that the girl was underage, but persisted in seeing her.

WHO LENT THESE GIRLS OUT TO BE VIOLATED? Is no one minding the store? These are the children most succeptible to abuse. Is the foster care system in the UK a source for muslim men to obtain their sexual abuse victims?

Just for geographic reference, I'm from Vancouver, B.C.

When I hear the word "asian" I mostly think 'Chinese', either from the mainland, Hong Kong, or Taiwan. I also lump in Vietnamese, Korean and other South East Asian countries.

I do not think of India as asian, nor those from Indonesia, the Philippines or Fiji.

And I certainly do NOT think of muslim countries as being Asian.

I think you'll find that most Vancouverites feel the same way.

We have a rather large Indo-canadian community (mostly centered in Surrey) and a large Asian community (predominantly in Richmond, but also quite prevalent in Vancouver and west Burnaby). This is why we've learned to differentiate them.

I think you'd insult the asians if you called someone from Pakistan or Afghanistan an "Asian".

Josephine -

I admire your posts and your courage. No woman "asks" to be raped or sexually assaulted.

A women's morality has nothing to do with the clothes she wears. "Islamic" clothing should be a choice, not a requirement.

I've never really out why a deity would be that interested in women's fashion. Wouldn't they be more concerned with running the universe?

Once again, that you for your posts!

tanstaafl -- Thanks so much.

i don't really want to comment on much of what has been posted above, it has become too heated, but briefly:
these were underage girls, not adults, who were miserably failed by the police and social services, and who were wickedly exploited by the convicted men. sordid, but fairly simple to understand. if people had done their jobs properly, it could have been avoided.
yes, many women in the West have, as a wise and thoughtful man said to me a while back, stepped too far outside the boundaries that society has constructed to protect them.
however, that is also effectively what the Islamists say about Muslim women who seek an education, want to have a say in who they marry, try to protect their daughters from being married off as children, oppose FGM, who allow a lock of hair to slip from under a veil, and so on. such "wild slutty" behaviour has to be met with violence, but even women who strive to confrom totally are not safe - being fully veiled does not protect Muslim from rape, being obviously pregnant does not protect Muslim women from rape.
the fundamental problem is male behaviour, not exclusively Muslim, but especially so in that it is religiously sanctioned. during the time of the Crusader kingdoms, a Muslim traveller was amazed to see a knight dismount and respectfully give way to a washer-woman. washer-women were often camp-followers, and perhaps not always as good as they might be, but the knight did not discriminate - as another wise man once said to me, "always treat a lady like a lady, even if she is not". and this is a difference in attitude which still divides Islam and the west today.
and now it is time for bed.

boxter
an armed insurrection or revolt is not the way forward.
we need to stick with the british democratic process and vote in folk that will use the right pressure to enforce a return to normalcy, circa 1940's peaceful british society when you didn't have gangs of foreigners preying on little white girls and enforcing ethnic cleansing on the anglo-saxon british population.

does this make me a neo-fascist for wanting this?

Back again, I keep forgetting my password here, arrrgh

OK--to the blaming of 'white women' in the west for the invasion of Islam,

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE...yes on many parts the decay of society has in many ways opened up the door to tolerance of all forms of misogyny,

but Don't put the blame on women sir. Look in the mirror, pedaphilia is rampant in every country, and the rape culture is rampant in This country,

want to place blame, start with the male demand for porn.

The DIFFERENCE however, and why the tolerance and 'silence' of the west, particularly feminists which just makes me LIVID, in regards to these cases,

is that under Islam, pedaphilia is SANCTIONED BY LAW. Its not just a matter of that it happens, its THAT ITS CONDONED AND SANCTIONED AND ORDAINED AND

ORDERED BY THE TEXTS OF ISLAM, the Koran. Thats where it becomes more than just the issue of pedaphilia which is disgusting and wrong period, but that its not just the matter of it happening, but it happening with full acceptance VIA THE MUSLIM LAWS.

And I just got notice today that the Human Rights Watch is looking now for someone to work as an expert on Sharia and women's rights, which in my opinion, spells real trouble, because what will happen, is what always happens, an eventual wearing down of common sense, a slow tolerance of 'cultural or religious practices' that truly are extremely offensive and outright cruel. They intend on working to change women's rights in Sharia but we all know, this will not be the outcome. It is a sad day, as far as that is concerned and believe me when I say, as a woman's human rights advocate, I'm extremely concerned over this. Because what we will see, is the west becoming more tolerant of these CRIMES

and to HELL WITH CAIR, IT IS A CRIME TO SODOMIZE, RAPE, MOLEST A GIRL AND/OR WOMAN.

I will NEVER BOW DOWN AND CAVE IN UNDER COWARDICE TO THE WORST FORM OF MISOGYNY IN THE WORLD, TO HELL WITH ISLAM AND TO HELL WITH P.C.

I'm already livid at the silence of so called 'feminists' who might as well STRAP ON DICKS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED [SORRY I AM NOT NICE] AND START DEMANDING WOMEN TO RETURN TO THE KITCHEN
BECAUSE

THEY ARE HYPOCRITES. THEY ARE WORSE THAN MALE CHAUVINISTS,

their silence towards the charges brought against Nastreen [India] is just blatant cowardice and hypocricy.

It is because of this and months and years of growing so sick and disgusted with the pathetic double standard in feminism in the west towards Islam that I have decided that I will no longer define myself as a 'feminist' but rather

as a woman and children's human rights defender.

Because feminism [and leftism] today, is nothing but in bed with lust for the worst type of theocratic fascism there is today. They are the Equivalent of a Jew who bows down at the feet of Hitler begging to service him before he sends them to the oven....

but see thats just it, its so ludicrous to even envision such a thing that its unbelievable, but that is Exactly what feminists and leftists are doing today.

I will dare say it, shall I? The right and centralists today, have become the libertarians and defenders of freedom, whereas the so called 'liberals' have become not conservative, but fascist lovers of the worst kind. Its a total reversal, I can't even say I'm leftist anymore without wanting to run to the toilet and yech for days.

Thats how disgusted I am. I could not live in UK, I'd be in jail, seriously, I'd have to slap some burka wearing loon and hard...probably drag her sheet wearing ass down the street, thats how much I HATE THE FASCIST THEOCRACY AND THEIR B.S. MAGGOT FILTH TREATMENT OF GIRLS, BOYS, AND WOMEN, AND HUMANITY IN GENERAL...

just LET some Muslim or some liberal tell me that white girls are deserving of this type of treatment....I won't waste time rapping Appa you jerk,

or threatening. I'll be in jail for assault. You know it just befounds me why people are even putting up with such medieval barbarism, seriously? What the hell is wrong with people, really? like this thing in Scotland about banning lunch--to hell with that,

I'd be eating pork right there and they'd have to have twenty men drag me off, I'd chain my ass to that desk and I'd chain that food tray to the desk and I'd say,

BRING IT ON.

You know there is just a limit, and this crap has just gone on too much. Let them touch my daughter

I PROMISE YOU--THERE WILL BE ONE DEAD MUSLIM.

Tasha

Back again, I keep forgetting my password here, arrrgh

OK--to the blaming of 'white women' in the west for the invasion of Islam,

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE...yes on many parts the decay of society has in many ways opened up the door to tolerance of all forms of misogyny,

but Don't put the blame on women sir. Look in the mirror, pedaphilia is rampant in every country, and the rape culture is rampant in This country,

want to place blame, start with the male demand for porn.

The DIFFERENCE however, and why the tolerance and 'silence' of the west, particularly feminists which just makes me LIVID, in regards to these cases,

is that under Islam, pedaphilia is SANCTIONED BY LAW. Its not just a matter of that it happens, its THAT ITS CONDONED AND SANCTIONED AND ORDAINED AND

ORDERED BY THE TEXTS OF ISLAM, the Koran. Thats where it becomes more than just the issue of pedaphilia which is disgusting and wrong period, but that its not just the matter of it happening, but it happening with full acceptance VIA THE MUSLIM LAWS.

And I just got notice today that the Human Rights Watch is looking now for someone to work as an expert on Sharia and women's rights, which in my opinion, spells real trouble, because what will happen, is what always happens, an eventual wearing down of common sense, a slow tolerance of 'cultural or religious practices' that truly are extremely offensive and outright cruel. They intend on working to change women's rights in Sharia but we all know, this will not be the outcome. It is a sad day, as far as that is concerned and believe me when I say, as a woman's human rights advocate, I'm extremely concerned over this. Because what we will see, is the west becoming more tolerant of these CRIMES

and to HELL WITH CAIR, IT IS A CRIME TO SODOMIZE, RAPE, MOLEST A GIRL AND/OR WOMAN.

I will NEVER BOW DOWN AND CAVE IN UNDER COWARDICE TO THE WORST FORM OF MISOGYNY IN THE WORLD, TO HELL WITH ISLAM AND TO HELL WITH P.C.

I'm already livid at the silence of so called 'feminists' who might as well STRAP ON DICKS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED [SORRY I AM NOT NICE] AND START DEMANDING WOMEN TO RETURN TO THE KITCHEN
BECAUSE

THEY ARE HYPOCRITES. THEY ARE WORSE THAN MALE CHAUVINISTS,

their silence towards the charges brought against Nastreen [India] is just blatant cowardice and hypocricy.

It is because of this and months and years of growing so sick and disgusted with the pathetic double standard in feminism in the west towards Islam that I have decided that I will no longer define myself as a 'feminist' but rather

as a woman and children's human rights defender.

Because feminism [and leftism] today, is nothing but in bed with lust for the worst type of theocratic fascism there is today. They are the Equivalent of a Jew who bows down at the feet of Hitler begging to service him before he sends them to the oven....

but see thats just it, its so ludicrous to even envision such a thing that its unbelievable, but that is Exactly what feminists and leftists are doing today.

I will dare say it, shall I? The right and centralists today, have become the libertarians and defenders of freedom, whereas the so called 'liberals' have become not conservative, but fascist lovers of the worst kind. Its a total reversal, I can't even say I'm leftist anymore without wanting to run to the toilet and yech for days.

Thats how disgusted I am. I could not live in UK, I'd be in jail, seriously, I'd have to slap some burka wearing loon and hard...probably drag her sheet wearing ass down the street, thats how much I HATE THE FASCIST THEOCRACY AND THEIR B.S. MAGGOT FILTH TREATMENT OF GIRLS, BOYS, AND WOMEN, AND HUMANITY IN GENERAL...

just LET some Muslim or some liberal tell me that white girls are deserving of this type of treatment....I won't waste time rapping Appa you jerk,

or threatening. I'll be in jail for assault. You know it just befounds me why people are even putting up with such medieval barbarism, seriously? What the hell is wrong with people, really? like this thing in Scotland about banning lunch--to hell with that,

I'd be eating pork right there and they'd have to have twenty men drag me off, I'd chain my ass to that desk and I'd chain that food tray to the desk and I'd say,

BRING IT ON.

You know there is just a limit, and this crap has just gone on too much. Let them touch my daughter

I PROMISE YOU--THERE WILL BE ONE DEAD MUSLIM.

Tasha

Back again, I keep forgetting my password here, arrrgh

OK--to the blaming of 'white women' in the west for the invasion of Islam,

HOLD IT RIGHT THERE...yes on many parts the decay of society has in many ways opened up the door to tolerance of all forms of misogyny,

but Don't put the blame on women sir. Look in the mirror, pedaphilia is rampant in every country, and the rape culture is rampant in This country,

want to place blame, start with the male demand for porn.

The DIFFERENCE however, and why the tolerance and 'silence' of the west, particularly feminists which just makes me LIVID, in regards to these cases,

is that under Islam, pedaphilia is SANCTIONED BY LAW. Its not just a matter of that it happens, its THAT ITS CONDONED AND SANCTIONED AND ORDAINED AND

ORDERED BY THE TEXTS OF ISLAM, the Koran. Thats where it becomes more than just the issue of pedaphilia which is disgusting and wrong period, but that its not just the matter of it happening, but it happening with full acceptance VIA THE MUSLIM LAWS.

And I just got notice today that the Human Rights Watch is looking now for someone to work as an expert on Sharia and women's rights, which in my opinion, spells real trouble, because what will happen, is what always happens, an eventual wearing down of common sense, a slow tolerance of 'cultural or religious practices' that truly are extremely offensive and outright cruel. They intend on working to change women's rights in Sharia but we all know, this will not be the outcome. It is a sad day, as far as that is concerned and believe me when I say, as a woman's human rights advocate, I'm extremely concerned over this. Because what we will see, is the west becoming more tolerant of these CRIMES

and to HELL WITH CAIR, IT IS A CRIME TO SODOMIZE, RAPE, MOLEST A GIRL AND/OR WOMAN.

I will NEVER BOW DOWN AND CAVE IN UNDER COWARDICE TO THE WORST FORM OF MISOGYNY IN THE WORLD, TO HELL WITH ISLAM AND TO HELL WITH P.C.

I'm already livid at the silence of so called 'feminists' who might as well STRAP ON DICKS AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED [SORRY I AM NOT NICE] AND START DEMANDING WOMEN TO RETURN TO THE KITCHEN
BECAUSE

THEY ARE HYPOCRITES. THEY ARE WORSE THAN MALE CHAUVINISTS,

their silence towards the charges brought against Nastreen [India] is just blatant cowardice and hypocricy.

It is because of this and months and years of growing so sick and disgusted with the pathetic double standard in feminism in the west towards Islam that I have decided that I will no longer define myself as a 'feminist' but rather

as a woman and children's human rights defender.

Because feminism [and leftism] today, is nothing but in bed with lust for the worst type of theocratic fascism there is today. They are the Equivalent of a Jew who bows down at the feet of Hitler begging to service him before he sends them to the oven....

but see thats just it, its so ludicrous to even envision such a thing that its unbelievable, but that is Exactly what feminists and leftists are doing today.

I will dare say it, shall I? The right and centralists today, have become the libertarians and defenders of freedom, whereas the so called 'liberals' have become not conservative, but fascist lovers of the worst kind. Its a total reversal, I can't even say I'm leftist anymore without wanting to run to the toilet and yech for days.

Thats how disgusted I am. I could not live in UK, I'd be in jail, seriously, I'd have to slap some burka wearing loon and hard...probably drag her sheet wearing ass down the street, thats how much I HATE THE FASCIST THEOCRACY AND THEIR B.S. MAGGOT FILTH TREATMENT OF GIRLS, BOYS, AND WOMEN, AND HUMANITY IN GENERAL...

just LET some Muslim or some liberal tell me that white girls are deserving of this type of treatment....I won't waste time rapping Appa you jerk,

or threatening. I'll be in jail for assault. You know it just befounds me why people are even putting up with such medieval barbarism, seriously? What the hell is wrong with people, really? like this thing in Scotland about banning lunch--to hell with that,

I'd be eating pork right there and they'd have to have twenty men drag me off, I'd chain my ass to that desk and I'd chain that food tray to the desk and I'd say,

BRING IT ON.

You know there is just a limit, and this crap has just gone on too much. Let them touch my daughter

I PROMISE YOU--THERE WILL BE ONE DEAD MUSLIM.

Tasha

Have to say more here, sorry, but every day my rage grows and grows against this filth,

you know the whole wearing of the veil thing, that doesn't bother me as much, IF it was a matter of choice and not this forced thing, which thats just it, its FORCED on women. Thats the real issue that the whole debate about culture is just KaKa.

But when it comes to the issue of rape and pedaphilia--I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO TOLERANCE

AND I DON'T CARE THE MULLAHS CAN SQUIRM IN HEMMOROIDS--

TO HELL WITH ACLU AND ANY WHO DEFEND IN ANY MINUTE WAY--THE RAPE OF A CHILD,

I'D SOON KILL THEM, SLOWLY, THAN TOLERATE EVEN THEIR EXISTENCE.

But see thats just it too, a poster here mentioned the moral decay and the decay of women, well, lets really take a look at this, because pedaphilia is tolerated in This country, child porn is tolerated, even by the Supreme Court. We have numerous accounts of 'apologetics and blaming women here in our own backyard for rape', we have prisons full of men [and some women yes] who've raped,

talk about Netherlands, oh you mean the child prostitution market of the world, and Thailand, where tons of young girls are sold and gang raped and FORCED to service fifty men or more a day...and who's paying for these children?

Americans, Europeans, not just Muslims, not just Asians, so if we are going to talk about the 'tolerance' and decay of society, lets start there. The REASON MULTI-CULTURALISTS AND SO CALLED COMMIES AND SOCIALISTS [WHO LENIN WOULD HAVE SHOT, SERIOUSLY, IF YOU'VE EVER READ LENIN, SOCIALISTS TODAY ARE NOTHING BUT CAPITALISTS HEDONISTS WHO WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT PROLETARIAT WAS IF IT WAS A SNAKE IN FRONT OF THEM]

are so TOLERANT TO ISLAM, IS BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF THEM

ARE TOLERANT TO RAPE AND CHILD RAPE, CHILD PROSTITUTION AND CHILD PORN.

Thats the heart of the matter and that is ONE area where if people would get some BALLS and start fighting back, we could have a serious dent in the invasion of Islam...but see, Islam has won half of the battle because you have countries that are tolerant to pedaphiles and child porn and rapists within their own, get what I'm saying here.

THERE IS NO OUTRAGE ANYMORE WHEN CHILDREN ARE RAPED AND KILLED. Its such a common occurance today, that we have Mothers being imprisoned in this country [USA] for killing men who have raped their daughters. They are demonized in media for vigilantism or the recent case where young lesbians were sentenced to prison, for physically defending one woman from being sexually assualted by some jackass, who thinks because he's a man he's entitled to grope and assault--and the JUDGE joked around with this jerk. But dare a woman defend herself, oh hell no, she's just supposed to like it and giggle...

see when you have societies that tolerate that crap, then yea, they aren't going to be all bent out of shape when Muslim men come in and take full advantage of whats already being done, and its not just in the treatment of women. Its in a lot of things...the whole issue with Scotland and the lunch thing, well, we've tolerated persecution against young kids in our schools who want to pray in silence--but now, oh now we have schools changing entire lunch hours and Thats o.k. Because hey, the so called anti-Christians are all tickled pink that there is another religion shoving religion down the throats of students--but they ARE SO STUPID TO REALIZE ITS GOING TO ONE DAY BITE THEM IN THE ASSES.

So, moral decay--you bet, but not because of women demanding freedom from rape and subjugation, if Anything, I'd say its the women caving in to the backlash of chauvinists, and why we see feminism today that is nothing but women running around acting like loose lucies bearing all and sexualizing little girls wondering why men don't respect them. DUH, gee go figure, and why FEMINISM TODAY IS A UTTER JOKE.

If we are going to Deal with this invasion of medieval child raping filth we are going to have to get some balls and stop caving in to fear. Many say, we are a minority, well, I have one message for that, something I used to hear all the time when I lived in TX,

Remember the Alamo!

Its going to come down to that, seriously. The law isn't going to do it, the system isn't going to do it. Look, the system protects rapists and pedaphiles now. The system protects porn but dare a student wear a cross to school.

I think its time we stop being PC, its time to start standing against pedaphilia and the tolerance of. Yes they will scream, yes they will lash out. SO THE HELL WHAT.

I GOT KICKED OUT OF A SOCIALIST PARTY BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO TOLERATE ANY TOLERANCE OF CHILD RAPE, I DON'T CARE WHAT 'GOD' THEY DO IT UNDER OR HOW MANY SHEETS THEY WEAR [AND TO THE SHEET WEARING WOMEN, IF YOU LET YOUR MAN RAPE A YOUNG WOMAN, or A SMALL GIRL, YOU DESERVE EVERYTHING YOU GET IF YOU DON'T LIFT A FINGER TO HELP--I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR YOU WHATSOEVER--and IF I EVER AM IN A SITUATION WHERE I SEE SOME SHEET WEARING WOMAN DO NOTHING AND SOME MAN HARM A GIRL AND I'M THERE, I WILL DO SOMETHING, AND I PROMISE--

I WOULD KICK YOUR SORRY ASS. AND I'D RUN HIS SORRY ASS OVER, I'D DO SOMETHING, I MIGHT BE KILLED BUT I PROMISE YOU, I'D DO SOMETHING.

and I don't care how many turbans some jerk wears, and Thats what people are going to have to start doing. Stop caring, seriously, if a child is being hurt, DO SOMETHING.

If you know some asshole is raping a child, SO WHAT IF THEY ARE MUSLIM. DO SOMETHING.

and I will say this, and say it now...I will NEVER CONVERT--CRUCIFY ME, GO AHEAD,

I'LL SPIT ON YOU FROM THE CROSS.

WHILE I THANK JESUS FOR ALLOWING ME TO STAND UP FOR HUMAN DECENCY.

and THAT PEOPLE,

IS WHAT WE NEED TO GET IN OUR GUT,

AND MEAN IT.

TO YOU SO CALLED LIBERALS AND FREEDOM LOVERS, THINK YOU NEED TO LIKE,

SPEND SOME TIME IN PRISON, CUZZ YOU HAVE NOT A CLUE, WHAT LACK OF FREEDOM IS. BECAUSE ANY WHO HAVE ANY TOLERANCE FOR FORCING RELIGION OR SUBJUGATION OR MARRIAGE OR RAPE--

AND WHO PROFESS LIBERALISM--EITHER YOU ARE JUST PLAIN

STUPID

OR IN NEED OF SOME HARD ASS PRISON TIME BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW THE EXHALING OF FREEDOM. I really think, for those totalitarian worshippers out there, its time to give them what they want.

before,

they force it all on us. [they'll have to kill me first though, and trust me, I'm teaching my kids the same--sometimes its better to die fighting, to die, that to live servicing haters and slave holders, and there is no way in hell I'd bow my knee to ANY PEDAPHILE GOD.

Tasha

natasha

"want to place blame, start with the male demand for porn."

ever been to japan?

seen thousands of guys reading sex comics in the morning? porn is rife and interwoven within post modern japanese culture, violent pornography in fact. YET, sex crime is very low, rape is very low. why? because its cultural. some sociologists even believe that porn is a cathartic release for society to channel their perversions, addictions etc. yet japanese culture is far different to western culture. japanese culture is the "whole society" as one, whilst western society is fragmented, which opens up the danger for islam to fill the hole (if you pardon my pun) in the lack of a national identity and oneness.

feminism has never really existed, feminism is your post war porn, the freedom to strip for a few pounds/dollars. this is a hangover from the swinging 60's. now we are left with AIDS, illegal immigration and socialists in power, who have caused more damage to the UK then any former king or british dictator could've ever hoped for.

we need to get back to pre-war politics, turn society back to the 1930's, where paedophiles were dealt with by local good guys and the bobby looked the other way.

do we have the guts to get those times back?

all it takes is a simple tick of the ballot box at the next elections and we will all awaken (like our slumbering king arthur) from our collective bad dream.

Oh yea, one more thing,

my tendency for violence, well see, I'm from one of those underriviledged backgrounds, and all,

see from where I'm from, we don't do p.c. Just let some Muslim gang bangers come in our neck of the woods and start gang raping,

we won't bother with the police. See where I come from, and where I've lived, they have this thing called street justice. And though yes I've gone to college [and why I think 80% of it is total bullshit seriously, Especially the multiculturalism and the whole leftist pro - commie thing in college, What a joke. Those idiots wouldn't know what poverty and hardship was if it bit them in the ass, mostly its just a bunch of middle class spoiled ass rich kids duped by professors whom many are from, yes, you guessed it, countries tolerant to not only Islam but every other barbaric practice there is, [sorry I'm pissed and when I'm pissed I just don't give a damn, but every case I read about young girls being molested by Muslim perverts or any pervert for that matter, my rationale goes out the window, I would love just for one day, one day to be in power,

I would so deal with these child raping turban wearing jerks in a heartbeat, and they would think Stalin was nice when I was done with them.

but seriously, the streets comes out in me when I read these cases more and more, and I sometimes think, thats what we need, is some hard ass standing up to these jerks once and for all. Because diplomacy won't work with these morons,

you can't 'reason with insanity' and thats just it, governments are trying to appease insanity.

Would you invite Charles Manson to lunch, give him a butcher knife and try to reason with him?

Of COURSE NOT!!!

but this is what the world is doing with Islam. I don't care anymore if there are moderates, where the hell are they? What good are they if they do EXIST?

they Sure as hell aren't doing anything to end the horror in Darfur or the murdering of little girls in Afghanistan or the ending of these little girls committing suicide by burning themselves to ESCAPE THEIR LIVING HELL

now are they?

The TRUE MODERATES ARE BEING PERSECUTED AND MOST LIVING IN FEAR--FROM DEATH THREATS FROM THE VERY ONES THEY SPEAK AGAINST.

Maybe people have had freedom too long and they just don't realize what it is anymore. See poverty, poverty does have a tendency to show you what lack of freedom is, at least lack of mobility. maybe why I'm not as tolerant,

but I've seen not only the tolerance but outright rationalizing of some of the worst forms of abuse towards children and girls and women, by leftist men AND EVEN LEFTIST WOMEN,

if you can believe that. I've seen lesbians even, and some really STUPID ASS WOMEN WHO CLAIM FEMINISM AND I DO MEAN STUPID NOW...MORE STUPID THAN ANY SNUFF CHEWING REDNECK I MET IN TEXAS NOW,

try to rationalize the abuse of women in Islam, its like they put on these blinders, is it fear? Maybe, I think alot of it is, but I think alot of it

is SHEER STUPIDITY, AND MOST OF ALL, SHEER BEING SPOILT TO MENTAL AND SPIRITUAL DEATH.

so to the whole issue of decay, its not women's rights, no sir,

its the being so spoiled and taking life for granted, taking freedom for granted, not really knowing what it is, to have the choice to worship or not worship, and not having some moral police banging at your door demanding what you wear, who you sleep with, or if you can, or forcing you to, etc.

Europe, don't know man, really don't know, what can I say...I've been to UK, it was getting bad there when I was there and that was in the 80s...I really feel for the few, the minority there fighting with every breath to save England from becoming Mecca. I can see it now, the Queen of England forced to wear a Burka, could you just imagine.

Someone said here, civil disobedience, you know love Thoreau ,and maybe everyone should read him, because thats EXACTLY what we need, and Lots of it.

As for UK, you see these PERVERTS STALKING FOR THESE YOUNG GIRLS,

EASY, KICK THEIR SORRY ASSES. SO YOU GO TO JAIL,

HEY, ITS EITHER YOU FIGHT, OR JUST LET GIRLS BE RAPED.

I WASN'T KIDDING WHEN I SAID I'D KILL FOR MY DAUGHTERS AND I WOULD. OR I WOULD MAKE THEM WISH THEY WERE DEAD. Thats what these parents in UK need to do, seriously. Start a angels group to guard over these young women, do something but let the system know, your daughters and sisters are not for grabs,

this isn't Pakastan. Don't let it become Pakastan. If they don't like it, so the EU doesn't want to offend them, too bad. I just can't see George Washington worrying about defending ole King George now, can you?

Its going to come down to that, we all know it. Do you die for freedom, or do you bow down to slavery?

Tasha

actually Leon,

the whole thing about porn and Japan, is not true, yes they have extremely high porn,

they also have extremely high rates of pedaphilia and sexually harassing girls on the buses/or subways. Its just not spoken about as freely because of the 'shame' factor but women or feminists in Japan have been outspoken about it.

and today, child prostitution is on the rise in Japan, so that whole argument about porn not leading to violence based on the Japan model has tons of holes in it.

And, I concur with you, in the 30s, yes, and That is exactly what we need to go back to, as far as dealing with the pedaphiles, but pedaphilia was the little dirty secret then too, its always existed. The one thing about feminism or the women's rights movement is that it did bring it to attention,

and if it would have Stayed there, if the feminist movement didn't cave in to the whole free sex garbage--the backlash against feminism to where young women couldn't take the heat so rather than demand dignity they instead started believing the LIE about sexual empowerment through being a slut and I don't say that in negative judgment against women, but just stating the facts. But you are right, the whole free sex culture had a lot to do with the demise in west culture, but I don't think it just was invented overnight, in other words, that it was just some thing from the sixties, it just became 'accepted' and more and more things become accepted. I think materialism is a huge part of the problem, the more people love 'things' and regard people as a means to the ends, or things,

the more people become apathetic. We've always had the Lolita cases since time beginning, but now its like not just happening but its celebrated culturally. Thats what porn does, it takes the worst perversion and celebrates it--and feeds into it, why porn is so violent. Its not about erotica, its about domination of women and the lie that women want rape and violence.

But the thing with porn is that its a multi-billion dollar industry that today, isn't about soft porn anymore but about hard core porn, violence, more and more porn that is based on trafficking of children and women worldwide, snuff films, enslavement, etc.,

and why the tolerance of such, opens the door to tolerance of theocratic practices, in other words, when we talk about Muslims marrying young girls, well in comparisons, when you have a society that thinks nothing of girls of the age of 12 being forced to prostitute and being in brothels,

do you really think they are going to see anything wrong with forced child marriages? Of course now, if anything they embrace it--its like the God ticket to doing what they are doing, with a stamp to heaven for it.

I am not kidding, when I say the majority of leftist men who are so in love with Islam, are pro-pedaphilia, pro-porn, and extremely misogynist. they only claim women's rights because its women working, and abortion, its the free sex with no responsibility and anything is o.k. ticket,

they have not a care for women or children as human beings. they are just commodities to them.

Why support of porn actually does, in many ways, gives strength to the invasion of Islam.

Tasha

natasha

i can see that this is a really sensitive issue to you and you seem to have a lot more in depth knowledge than me in these matters. my final response is this. why has teh left wing openly embraced islamic culture so readily? my answer would be that hte left actively encourages the destruction of conservative values, ie the family, cohesive structure, authority and nationalism. why would the y want this? to implement a communist one world. muslims are but one their tools in the deconstruction of western society.

Typically barbaric Islamic behaviour. This is entirely predictable coming from the Muslim pigs.
Europe & America can learn from the history of Islamic interaction with other liberal dhimmocracies around the world. India in particular is an example of how NOT to succumb to Islam, how not to allow leftist politicians
appease the evil cult.
But, what on earth is wrong with Europe?
Is this the same continent that produced the Vikings, Napoleon, Hitler, the French & Russian revolutionaries? This capitulation is the result of "Vegetable Lasagna" European political correctness that insists on negating the Islamic identity of these pedophiles & sees nothing wrong in tarring all "Asians" with the same brush.

Well Leon, good question and one that the left should be asking themselves but they have gone over to la la land, seriously. I believe the demise in the left came way way before now, way before the 60s, now whether due to Stalinism or Leninism, has long been debated and even within Marx's communist manifesto. But, that taken, I think the first issue is the taking of that manifesto, which was written for That epoch, and not taking into consideration the difference in the world of then and now.

What surprises me the most is the total breaking away from even applied communism or even, socialism, which in the beginning was Supposed to be against states using theocracy to enslave people [where the whole thing with anti-God and religion comes from, which goes back to Machievelli and his saying use religion to control the masses] and of course the whole fuedalist belief that God ordains out lot in life, etc. That was what Marx was referring to, and the Victorian bourgeouis influence of such Puritanism to enforce rigid economic class. On that he was right.

Which is what is so ironic in today, we have leftists who profess socialism and leftism grasping on and using a far worse theocratic 'opiate' that is far more feudalistic and seriously, if one was to read Marx's entire writings and Lenin and Plekanov, hell even Luxemburg, it doesn't make any sense. And I've had this discussion with current leftists and let me say this,

the majority of 'hard core' leftists that I know, are so far in belief from even Marx, its not even funny. This so called socialism in Europe today, it may be socialist in 'some' forms of economics but it sure as hell isn't the socialism in theory that I've studied. Its like, a mixture of hedonist new age anti-Christian [not anti-religion, just anti-Christian] post colonial sort of capitalist sort of socialist thinking and so in the pockets of the rich. And its not just socialism, communist parties are just as corrupt and bad AND IMPOTENT AS EVER.

so the left I see today, is not the left I have read about in theory, oh they may profess being anti-imperialist and anti-God but the goals of the far left and left, they don't make sense. How can a leftist on one hand profess to hate religion yet lie in bed with not only a religion but a religion that rules in all matters of state?

I think the most ironic is the fact that in left theory as far as Marxism goes, in the materialist dialectic, the whole embracing of Islam is so contrary to materialist dialectics, it just boggles my mind and honesty, I don't know how to explain it. All I know is that its twisted logic, even for a leftist, to embrace Islam and not only embrace it but cower down to it and allow Islam to take over.

I've said here before about the arrogance in thinking Islam can be a means to an end, and thats where they are highly mistaken. There is a real underestimation of Islam but see materialists don't believe in faith, they don't grasp that there are people who will literally sell their own kids for their faith, that faith can be so cult like and have that much mental influence over people, Especially if its sanctioned and ruled over people with an iron fist....

and maybe thats the attraction, maybe its the ideal that Islam will break people and people will be so beaten down that communism will win over but thats the most laughable fallacy there is because all that would result is a serfdom that would make the Tsarist Russia look liberal.

I think Leon its not so much about left anymore as its about corruption, greed, and total lack of Human morals, much less religious ones. OK for example, I'm not good at explaining this but, take this for example,

you mentioned the left and their hate of family and conventional society right? Well, thats just it, the hate of family, was the nuclear family, they [left theory I will use they] believed that the nuclear family, according to Marx/Engels was a capitalist development meant to enslave women, to promote slave labor, esp wage slavery [due to the influx of low paid workers, esp women and children in industrial age--good example would be reading Dickens] and a Puritan value,

and partly they were right. Before industrialization families were more extended, etc...Marx took it further to communal/clan, etc. But see he didnt Stop there, the neo-liberal left takes him WAY out of context because he talks about the barbarism in communal marriages, like what you have in tribal parts of Pakastan for instance or in parts of Africa where women are passed around like chattel--Marx spoke in reference to that as a backwards barbaric human development.

Marxism was all about human progress and development [dialectics] but anyway, what is so ironic, is that what was Left in 1900s, hell even in Stalin's day, is so contrary to what is Left today. Sure the left might 'talk' about these things but they don't apply them. Because everything about Islam is contrary to the goals of Marxism, and communism.

I think there is though a very real misunderstanding of the Difference between 'socialist theory as far as neo-liberal' and communist theory, they are very different. In fact, neo liberalism, Lenin hated it. As did in many ways Marx...socialism they thought was a step towards communism...but, I read the other day, something Lenin said and he hated, HATED socialism because he said socialism would always sell out. That once workers got what they wanted they would sell out the interests of the whole. So he took it further, then Stalin and nationalism, and this is where the whole post colonialism comes in, the internationalism [Trotsky] and nationalism Stalin. On both parts, interestingly, have aspects that play into the embracing of Islam.

On the nationalist issue its the whole belief that imperialism, of course meaning here, US capitalism, is the force that props up despots and the capitalists propping up of brutal state regimes and that if imperialism was dealt with, people would come to their senses and overthrow these old bourgeouis.

Internationalism says that workers of the world should unite as prolitariats against capitalism and that worker's interests would magically banish nationalism and all the capitalist nation state that was only an outcome of imperialist ideals.

Both have 'some' relavance of truth in how economics works and how elitism works, BUT both are utopic and underestimate the influence of both culture and nationalism and today that would include 'religious nationalism'. But this myth continues to perpetuate itself today in the left, be it liberal left or far left.

Where one of the major 'fallacies' that I found, in leftism or not fallacy so much but Hypocrisy, was actually in its claim to free women. Of all the studies I've done on far leftism, be it socialism or communism, the promises made to women, were yes kept at First, then sold out, either for militarization or just flat chauvinism. And so the tolerance of Islam even then, is in ways understandable when you look at the hypocrisy the left had in applying what they said on one hand, but what they didn't do on the other.

truth is, we've never had true communism, we've had totalitarianist 'state capitalist' regimes. So I question whether the ideals of communism [and I say communism because socialist is "supposed" to be the step towards] is even realistic because I don't think it is...maybe at one time long ago it was but not today. And I think most leftists know this so they opt for the closet they can arrive to, and that is state owned everything and what better way to accomplish this than a religion that is despotic and tyrannical as hell.

And they don't give a damn if millions of girls and women are enslaved, they are just fodder to bear 'laborers', SLAVE LABORERS...and they don't give a damn about the poor either. See I got into Marxism because I truly hated poverty and the systems that contribute to the cause of poverty, on That the theories of how capitalism creates class is very true--but the solving of this dilemna, well, it leaves much to be desired. And I say this after years of really believing in the theories of Marx, etc.

Its seriously flawed, and thats the bottom line. One it Always opens the door to centralism which is why far leftism, well hell, even leftism, is so like right fascism, its the same ole same ole, government, or state, ruling over the masses with an iron fist be it police force or economic force, and today--Religious force.

Both have this love of centralism and dictatorship, be it individual, group or group think ruling. That is why you see the love of Islam within the left--its the same thinking, people relying soley on some central force to control every aspect of their life for economic 'security'. But here is where the LIE is, in every socialist and applied communist country, poverty has increased--not decreased and worker's rights have diminished to

shit.

serious, to shit. That is what I have come to really realize, in studying and reading and comparing and its the one area where leftists have this thing about not wanting to face--and the always wanting to 'blame the capitalist influence' and yes, thats Partly true--but its even More true that you have corrupt despots and religious THUGS who hoard wealth on the backs of

SLAVES.

both, theories rely on the selling of not just individual but community even, their rights, their free will, to bow down to some tyrannical King or Kings. That is why the left embraces Islam, its the perfect Twin. Its the whole humans not being allowed to have free will but to be the slaves who are beaten and forced to build the Pyramids and sell their kids for tribute to the tyrannical feudal lords.

thats what I think--no, thats what I know. Its funny, now when I think about it, John Stuart Mill makes more sense to me now after years of studying far left theory than ever before, and the importance of individual rights. Not the abuse of individual rights, and I think thats why we have the demise of freedom that we do today...that and too much government,

because people Stopped governing themselves long long ago, and maybe why for a while anarchism appealed to me because in many ways it makes sense. Governments have in effect, made people into slaves from the beginning...but, then, is it government or people themselves?

I mean we blame the left, and sure when you see stupid ass socialists saying, oh we will ban lunch to not offend the Muslims because we will appease these terrorist Bullies, thats easy to do, obviously. But it is only the left or is it people in general? I think its a combination of both, and its not just left, the left appeases by kissing ass,

the right appeases by throwing money at them.

Either way, its appeasement and the people just sort of go along with which ever...people are politically LAZY [and don't think the Muslims don't know it]. You know its funny because I've started really thinking, or things coming back to me, about things I remembered when I read the Bible years ago,

and I'm not like into the whole right wing religion thing--or Christian fundamentalist, etc., but I did read the Bible alot in period of life and I still have kept my faith,

and one thing that I've been thinking on a lot and that is how many times the Bible, it says that when the people have taken on the laws of sin [para use here, my words] and have allowed all sorts of sin, then their enemies will rise up against them...and many times when Israel walked away and all sorts of moral decay, usually too it was violence and greed, then the enemies would rise--and it was, I remember one scripture where it says the enemies will come in and take the daughters and sons as slaves and then over time the people would grieve and the Lord would harden His heart but over time He would then relieve them and turn against their enemies and destroy them, etc. Well many times this was said..

and its not so much that God did this, I don't believe it was God but that when people lose sight of whats important, they lose sight of danger...

and This just came to me, but this is scripture, not sure exact but it says,

'My people perish because of a lack of knowledge...." [OT]

I'm not so sure that is book knowledge He was referring to, but the knowledge of wisdom instead. Now not trying to be all religious or anything, but just taking that from simply a historical and 'logical' sense--thats what I think the whole problem is, is that people have lost the use of wisdom, to govern themselves be it for many reasons, and have become too complacent to let a central ruling body, be it a central body of one party, parliament or even a representative 'republic' to rule over them, trusting their decisions without even balking, putting Too much trust in government,

and why people over time become lazy and accustomed to everything being decided for them, and it seems innocent at first, those small things and before you know it, its the big things, and then the policies with the very ones that plan on enslaving us. At least in somewhat free societies, in societies where its only been absolutism well, not like the people have a lot of choice and that is why those people, who do resist in those countries do so with far more courage and in the face of outright danger. In other words,

its not like the neo liberal left has just dictatorially taken over in the free west [free in symbolism, not always in practicality] but that people have come to a place where they've become so apathetic to where Any form of government is able to 'lure' them with promises of social justice and equality and people are 'gullible'. There is no critical thinking--to people today, critical thinking means rebelling against traditional norms,

that isn't critical thinking, its just rebelling. Because the so called 'radical revolt against the fascist status quo' that they proclaim is anything BUT--its in actuality a counter revolution against everything that was anti-status quo, but in a far more right wing fascism which we know as Islamic governance.

and thus--let it be stated for the record, the West will perish, due to a lack of 'wisdom'. because they refused knowledge, for the pleasures of the flesh. Thats my take on it--and as far as I'm concerned, its right wing fault in the puffing up of materialism in that lie of so called freedom, that freedom of you are free because of how much you own--the lie,

and the left in their lie that if you destroy the old and puff up the new tyranny [which is just old tyranny] then you will be free--another lie, its just a turning back to the good old days of 'howdy noble lord and master I worked the field all day and my kids are dying of starvation but here is your tithe good master' [the state capitalists] and today its with that added twist--not only the land master but the Mullah master and the master they call Allah.

good ole 14th century Feudalism with the concubinages and the Sultans...if I was to take it further, to the spiritual,

I'd even go as far to say--welcome to the anti-Christ because I think its becoming more and more apparent as to what Revelations was all about--and we have seen the beast.

Tasha

Natasha -- My comment is not meant to criticize you. I'm taking your posts seriously so I am responding seriously.

If, God forbid, any harm should come to your daughter, I would hope with all my heart that you would not commit murder. I don't hope this for the sake of the perpetrator but because of what it would do to your child. If she is ever hurt in such a way, she will need you more than ever. What would it do to her if her mother was in prison for murder? She would be doubly devastated.

I'm not arguing against self-defense; that is a different matter.

Josephine,

it would depend on the situation, the environment, what was done/happened, etc...in other words, in reference to my writing I'm referring to a Muslim attack on our country, i.e., war, increase in violence against non-Muslims, etc...to add my daughters know self defense and are in no way intimidated by men, esp Muslim men or Muslim women, they've been well educated and are quite empowered.

I would have to weigh the situation and outcome, I will say however, as one who has worked in women's rights for years, and I've had this discussion so many times with feminists and it is one issue that I am of the minority,

but until women rise up in self defense as a community of women, violence against women will not only continue to increase but women will interalize that violence moreso. I used to tell the left party I was in that it was always acceptable to the men and women in the far left for all sorts of people to rise up against oppression, even using violence, and they've been glorified and praised,

but dare women rise up, then its they are defying nature. That in my opinion is One of the Biggest problems women face in that in majority of regions around the world, women put up with the most horrid of violence towards them without even lifting a finger to fight it.

So what you wind up with is systems that when a woman or a minority of women rise up to stand, they are demonized. Its acceptable for women to 'support men's causes' but never their own. This is changing however and India comes to mind, there were several communities where women got so fed up with the daily rapes, that occurred with impunity. These women went after the rapists in one town and burned down their houses. Now this is extreme yes--

but didn't take long before the police began to realize that women simply were not going to put up with the horrendous treatment...and laws began to change. In some areas women are rising up and physically taking on the traffickers and rescuing girls, at the risk of their life. But the thing is, these girls wind up majority of time dead anyway--either killed or slowly dying with HIV. The women who started this campaign, many of them escaped forced sex slavery and have HIV [India, parts of Nepal, Asia].

In reference to the topic in Europe and Muslim men targeting young women, it will take that, women rising up because the System is NOT going to protect women. And obviously even the most professed of women's rights activists, or feminists, surely won't do anything because they'd rather not 'offend the so called sensitive feelings of Islam'.

I say--tough. As a woman's rights advocate, I have come to that place where I strongly believe women cannot any longer compromise or be complacent, especially regarding forced subjugation and violence, Particularly against young girls. The whole reason I began to post here was my outrage at the silence of so many feminists--sure they might post on one case here and there but they dare not take strong stands against in MY strong opinion and on FACT that Islam IS

THE MOST MISOGYNIST, VIOLENT, OFFENSIVE SYSTEM AGAINST WOMEN AND CHILDREN, ESP GIRLS, IN THE ENTIRE WORLD. THAT IS WHY I AM AGAINST IT.

And as one who will fight if it comes down to that, for women's and children's Human Rights, I think its like fighting for freedom, its the same thing, problem is, women have for too long accepted that they are not 'as worthy' to fight for their survival and freedom, for various reasons, and it is in my opinion, that this is why violence towards women worldwide, but more especially from Muslims due to the complete lack of status towards women in Islam, is so tolerated and even many expect it as something that is normal, that its somewhow normal to rape, maim, burn, mutilate, torture, enslave, beat, starve, hold hostage, kill, deliberately impoverish, exploit, the female gender.

The issue I have very strong Against Islam is the sanctifying and even ordaining of these ABUSES towards children and women. I used to think that diplomacy could work, I used to be of that very naive belief--I no longer believe diplomacy is an option. I no longer belief its some 'possibility' of war one day,

I believe we are in the very midst of this war NOW. [no pun intended] I voice my opposition and willingness to fight so that it is known, there is women in the West, that will not just lie down willingly but will fight, and fight to the death if it comes down to that. I also know I'm not the only one, obviously...

but I see so many feminists who are just sickening when it comes to confronting Islam and there just isn't Enough women's rights advocates willing to really put it on the line, not just for their own self preservation but for the belief that women are human beings, not token toys put here by some belief in a god, or prophet, or some military or despot or by some cult belief,

to be forcefully taken and held hostage for life, beaten, beat down, oppressed, sexually castrated, i.e., fgms, raped, starved, enslaved, worked to death, used as birth chattel till they shrivel up then tossed aside, etc...

and because I strongly know that is the worst form of slavery in the world, propped up by some sicko religious State/Nationalist system created to rule the world, because Thats what it was--

Islam,

as I said before, Mohammed was a military and despotic 'genius' ...he knew how to expand his rule and territory, and how to build an Arab nationalism that would far outlive his life--this is what I believe, I don't believe he was a prophet nor will I ever profess that he was--an nationalist expansionist and despotic ruler and conqueror via violence--yes, that is historical fact,

and a conqueror who used women as the means to build mass armies, why the younger they were the better--have them babies early, keep them subjugated and stupid, then toss them aside for younger 'meat'.

Whats even more concerning is how there are Western women who are So sadomachicist who are not only converting to Islam but who are saying how they now agree with being subjugated and abused. like one I was reading about who works in media, or did--makes you wonder about the mental health of some women seriously...

I really don't think Muslims will stop their misoygnist bullshit till women get fed up--maybe when women start hanging some of these rapist pedaphile assholes on poles Viet Cong style, in mobs, will they realize--
women aren't taking it lying down anymore.

As for these feminists who think pleading and accomodating these misogynists will one day change their cruel intents--they are in for a huge shock. And its the main reason I walked away from the 'isms' and turned my back on the majority of feminist groups here in the West-nothing makes me more livid that to read feminists and rad feminists just go on and on about porn and men and abortion but when it comes to Islam--they get all mushy and as far as I'm concerned--

they might as well throw on an apron, get back in the kitchen and shut the hell up. Because they know nothing about women's liberation and they make even some of the most chauvinist of right wing men look like women's rights fighters. Thats, thats the most tragic thing in today's world,

I will state for the record--I've seen more on Jihad Watch in fighting for women's rights when it comes to the blatant hate of women in Islam, than on any feminist site in the US--that includes MS, BITCH, Women's Space/The Margins, etc.

As for the feminists--I only have one thing to say--they make me sick. And I can just see them, not even lifting a finger in protest when that day comes, when they will be told to wear a chador. They are

cowards as far as I'm concerned...so thats why I do tend to be very militant because damnit--

we need women's rights advocates who Won't cower down to these Muslim THUGS. Put it this way--if I was to speak and they threw chairs at me--

jail or no jail, baby I'd be throwing not only chairs but I'd chase those SOBs out the building and I wouldn't let up till I had a few down on the ground. Maybe thats from living on the streets but I'd rather go out fighting--

Tasha

"...in other words, in reference to my writing I'm referring to a Muslim attack on our country, i.e., war, increase in violence against non-Muslims, etc..." Posted by: Natasha

Tasha -- I see. Thanks for clarifying. You make a lot of interesting points.