Almost a year to the day that news broke of Pakistan's truce with jihadists in North Waziristan comes the worst form of proof that such negotiating and dealmaking has not made anyone more secure except the jihadists themselves.
"Suicide bombers kill 25, wound 70, in Pakistan," from Reuters:
RAWALPINDI, Pakistan - Two suicide bombers struck near the heart of the Pakistani military on Tuesday, killing 25 people and wounding 70, many of them Defence Ministry staff on their way to work in the city of Rawalpindi.
[...]
There was no claim of responsibility but the Interior Ministry said evidence pointed to Al Qaeda-linked militants who are battling security forces near the Afghan border.
One bomb blew up a bus carrying Defence Ministry staff about a kilometre (half a mile) from army headquarters, said military spokesman Major-General Waheed Arshad.
The second went off in a market area of Rawalpindi, the sister city of Islamabad where Musharraf and many other top military officials live and where Islamabad’s international airport is located.
‘Both were suicide bombings but I have no detail about how they were carried out,’ Arshad said.
Both went off at around 7:20 a.m. (0220 GMT).
Earlier, some officials said the staff on the bus were from an agency involved in atomic work, while others said they were from a security agency.
‘The bus was totally packed. I saw 15 to 20 mutilated bodies,’ said Tanveer Ahmed, a government employee waiting for another bus near the spot, quickly cordoned off by soldiers.
The body and roof of the bus were almost totally blown away. Pieces of flesh and strips of clothing hung limply from the twisted metal frame as rescuers struggled to pull out the dead.
Pakistan has suffered a surge of militant violence since July, when commandos stormed a radical mosque in Islamabad and a peace pact broke down with militants in the North Waziristan region on the Afghan border.
While most of the violence has been in the northwest, there were two suicide bomb attacks in Islamabad in July.
[...]
Deputy Information Minister Tariq Azim Khan said a suicide bomber had apparently managed to board the bus that was blown up.
[...]
Interior Ministry spokesman Javed Iqbal Cheema said the blasts were part of a pattern of attacks.
‘You know what is going on in the tribal areas, it is an extension of that,’ he said, referring to semi-autonomous tribal lands on the Afghan border where Al Qaeda and and pro-Taleban militants are battling security forces.
This internal struggle sure causes alot of deaths
When it comes to death, the Jihadi kills himself first. So the target list for the Jihadi is universal and covers all the earth. They love death because SATAN LOVES DEATH.
# Proverbs 8:36
But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death."
From this we know that Islam is from the Devil.
And the fiend muhammad is a liar and the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning.
It must be banned if we are to save ourselves.
Assalamau Laikum all,
What an absolute travisty this is....an army town full of jawans attacks and brutally & cowardly murdered.
Peoples please show your support ...and roundly condemn this terrorism in what is esentially a friendly town in Pak.
No thanks Naseem
The real question here is: were the 'suicide bombers' disgruntled drivers from the Transportation Workers Union or simply radical Lutherans?
We always condemn terrorism here, maybe you have your posts switched-this is not the CAIR site.
I guess Spencer intended some pun when he writes, "Interior spiritual strugglers cause mass casualties in Pakistan." He is probably trying to take a jabe at "Jihad."
Hatred and vengeance have covered Spencer's heart, so he has to link all terrible activities to Jihad. It's like saying when 500 pound coalition(!) bombs kill hundreds of children in Iraq, "Upholders of democracy and liberty cause mass casualties in Iraq."
Well, Spencer should have no problem understanding those fanatics, because he also happens to be one. Just from another party.
@Naseem
why should we condemn it, because the victims were Muslims?
what an absolute travesty YOU ARE!
CapitalistGig:
“We always condemn terrorism here, maybe you have your posts switched-this is not the CAIR site.”
Which CARE site were you referring to: Cooperative for Assistance and Relief Everywhere?
Naseem:
What an absolute travisty this is....an army town full of jawans attacks and brutally & cowardly murdered.
Why is it that you dont learn Naseem?
That is a direct result due to the nature of Islam. The suicide bomber probably regards the other Pakistanis as apostate and therefore targetable.
When are you going to abandon Islam?
Still clinging to this idea that it is noble, that Muhammad was noble? I think of Muhammad in the same line as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Pol Pot.
ataa,
In your estimation, were these suicide bombers jihadists or coalition forces?
ataa,
If you have to "analyze" Spenser's phrase re:jihad, then you don't really understand it or much about this topic.
Naseem,
Boo. Frickin'. Hoo. All the sympathy you want for your Muslim cohorts and none for anyone else. Typical, and OLD NEWS from you. Get a new line, will ya?
Time for Musharif to declare the truce has been violated by the jihadis and go after them, and let coalition forces in Afghanistan pounce from the other side.
Naseem
Meet Ataa. Won't you ask him your favorite question - whether he regards Qadianis as Muslims?
At any rate, looks like you've found another prospective hubby ;-)
Maybe this will kick the military into action against the jihadists once and for all. They've been sitting on the fence (or over the fence on the other side) long enough. Unfortunately this is the way it is against global jihad; kill or be killed. Even non-jihad Muslims may finally be getting it. Maybe....
awake:
Your question is the only sane one in this thread, other questions are just simply trashy (like "naseem found a hubby," or "when are you going to abandon Islam" etc.) But those are not unexpected, this is the level of most subscribers of this blog.
To answer your question, these terrible acts are done by terrorists, not jihadists. Even if they call themselves that, they are not jihadists. A similarity would be the so called coalition(!) which did not go to Iraq to establish democracy, but they they say so. Or Spencer, who is a diehard hater, even if he claims not so. All of these terrible people are cast from the same die.
Naseem:
What an absolute travisty this is....an army town full of jawans attacks and brutally & cowardly murdered.
Why is it that you dont learn Naseem?
That is a direct result due to the nature of Islam. The suicide bomber probably regards the other Pakistanis as apostate and therefore targetable.
When are you going to abandon Islam?
Still clinging to this idea that it is noble, that Muhammad was noble? I think of Muhammad in the same line as Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Pol Pot.
Posted by: UK Infidel Lover [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 4, 2007 3:16 PM
DANG YOU UK, you went and stole my point, although appeasment DOES work, just ask the afore mentioned
scumbags.
Naseem, Mr. Spencer just spotlights the truth of your "religion". Unfortinutally, (for you)it doesnt look good under a spotlight.
@ataa
So, the Jihadis are who YOU say they are.
and the terrorists are whoever you DECIDE.
Ask these murderous muhammadans (quick before they blow themselves up) and they will tell you "WE Are mujahadenn. We are holy warriors for islam!"
they will tell you "we are doing JUST WHAT muhammad ordered us to do. muhammad set the example and we follow it."
and habiibi, I wouldn't argue with them if I were you. capisce?
Oh my we got two polishers of that which is found tightly coiled on the neighbors lawn.
ataa i don't suppose you ever thought of why those innocent women and children were among the jihadists also called terrorists when the bombs were dropped?Or is it that the jihadists known also as terrorists were hiding among the innocent women and children?
Another fact for your looney mind is that the west gets nothing out of killing women and children.However islam gets all the propaganda it can carry.
Another fact of those bombings,that by the way i don't know what your talking about,you said the hundreds the west has killed.What excatly is the count of women and children islam has slaughtered?Thousands? Millions?The innocent people the west have killed i can guarantee were not purposely killed i do doubt that islam can say the same thing.No matter what crap comes from your lips.
Islam has killed humanity the only thing it brought to this world is evil and inhumane.
Keep polishing those turds!
Naseem let me guess we should send over some western aid over this atrocity ....right?
Naseem why don't you go get your crayons out and write up your own sign condemning that terrorist act and march around calling for the beheading of those who insult islam,as muslims like to say these terrorists have hijacked your religion.
I don't have any pity for ANY islamic hell hole.You wallow in the glory that is islam.I will continue to wallow in the glory of Democracy that will shove islam back down the well.
ataaboy states, "To answer your question, these terrible acts are done by terrorists, not jihadists. Even if they call themselves that, they are not jihadists."
So you're the resident expert on what a jihadist is? I see. Talk about majoring on the minors.
Your anger & outrage is so misplaced, ataa, that I have to wonder if you're playing with a full deck; because I don't understand why you would get so exercised over whether or not we are getting the terms "jihadist" vs "terrorist" right -- rather than focusing on what's really important, and that's the fact that Islam embodies evil & injustice.
Pick better battles than jihadist vs terrorist!
ataa,
Referring to these jihadists as "terrorists" is an attempt to cloak an agenda. No one commits terrorism for terror's sake. There is always an underlying agenda.
The concept of suicide being prohibited or haram in Islam is documented in the Qur'an. It is also safe to assume that due to a lack of technology when the passage was revealed, Muhammad could not possible legislate against suicide bombing as a form of righteous jihad, fighting in the path of Allah. Therefore, future scholarly interpretation is required to understand the concept in current terms.
No pious practicing Muslim would engage in suicide bombing if they believed they were damning themselves to eternal hell-fire, as the Qur'an mentions. Similarly, no non-practicing or nominal Muslim would entertain the idea at all.
So what we are left with is an interpretation of how suicide bombing fits in modern Islamic ideology based on scholarly interpretation.
Well-known Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi is a most useful example in this regard. He has condoned female suicide bombing, and ultimately the act in general as a form of martyrdom. See below:
http://www.meforum.org/article/646
In the absence of a unifying voice legislating on all things Islamic, historical passages are open to current interpretation.
The perpetrators in the JW article believe that they were acting righteously within the sanctioned parameters of Islam, and that is all that matters.
Before you try to dismiss Qaradawi as an Islamic heretic, ask yourself a question. If Qaradawi is misrepresenting what the Qur'an means, ultimately disrespecting and insulting Muhammad and Allah, why is he still breathing? Why has not the Islamic world come down on him like a ton of bricks?
Regardless of the answer, Robert has once again, effectively shown the correlation between jihadist terrorism and Islam itself.
What say you?
ataa i don't blame you for being upset about people like Robert exposing the truth about islam.
When seen in the light the bloody and dark and evilness of islam is most frightening to its believers.I mean what must go through muslims minds? What day will i be called on to kill myself in an act of murder suicide?
Of course you saying how those terrorists are not jihadists must mean that you agree that they have hijacked the religion of peace so what day do you have scheduled and all those that think as you do to carry your protest signs calling for thier beheading?
Or are you only on the protest team that goes out when a cartoon of muhammad or some other twisted pervert of islam is insulted?
You want my opinion of what you think? MUSLIM OPINION BE DAMNED!!!!!
Go ahead and say it it's all you are programmed to say ,i am a racist ,islamophobe,bigot and a hater because i despise islam.
I will carry each and every single title with honor.
Dar al-harb,
You clearly don't know history. Christians have killed most people in the world. Start counting the big ten - 1) Crusades, 2) Eradicating of natives in North America and Australia, 3) Spanish inquisition, 4) Centuries of wars in Europe 5) Witch hunt, 6) Killing off of Hawaiian indigenous people, 7)First world war, 8) Second world war 9) Vietnam, 10) The killings by Soviet Union ...
Add those up and you'll see (may be not, if you are blinded by hatred) what Christians have done throughout the history. They have colonized the world for their own pleasure, given plague to natives, slavery to Africans and atom bombs to Japanese. They have invented the weapons of mass murder. And you talk about mass murder! Shameless!
I have mentioned before, many Muslims have done terrible things thoughout the history, but those are just as terrible as those done by others, such as Christians.
@ataa
To answer your question, these terrible acts are done by terrorists, not jihadists. Even if they call themselves that, they are not jihadists. A similarity would be the so called coalition(!) which did not go to Iraq to establish democracy, but they they say so. Or Spencer, who is a diehard hater, even if he claims not so. All of these terrible people are cast from the same die.
Terrorism is a tactic not a reason. What is the reason for these attacks in Pakistan? Why do they want to bring down the government of Pakistan?
Your analogies are shallow and don't prove anything but shows your hatred with those that disagree with you. The 'coalition' did establish a democracy. Remember all of the blue thumbs? There was an election, a democratic government was started. Your attacks on Mr. Spencer are again baseless and unproven. He has spoken the truth, it is your hate not his because you don't like what he is saying. Prove he is not speaking the truth about Islam and the Koran and Mohammad.
John 8:31-36
Jesus said to the people who believed in him, "You are truly my disciples if you keep obeying my teachings. And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free. But we are descendants of Abraham," they said. "We have never been slaves to anyone on earth. What do you mean, `set free'?" Jesus replied, "I assure you that everyone who sins is a slave of sin. A slave is not a permanent member of the family, but a son is part of the family forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will indeed be free.
جون 8:31-36
قال السيد المسيح إلى الناس الذين يؤمنون به ، "انت حقا بلدي مريدي اذا كنت ابقاء إطاعة تعاليم بلدي. وانت تعرف الحقيقة ، والحقيقة سوف تحدد انت حر. ولكن نحن ابناء ابراهيم "، قالوا. "لدينا قط عبيدا لأحد على الارض. ماذا تقصد ، ومجموعة 'الحرة'؟ " اجاب يسوع : "اؤكد لكم ان كل من خطايا هو عبد للخطيءه. عبدا ليست عضوا دائما في الاسرة ، ولكن الابن جزء من الاسرة الى الابد. حتى لو كنت ابن حرة مجموعات عليك حقا حرة.
Im.mad.as.HELL!
Did you say, Jesus said to the people who believed in him, "You are truly my disciples if you keep obeying my teachings..." ?
Wow, that means Jesus called his people as 'disciples' of him, not his worshippers or creations? So, he was not claiming deity? People worship God, but become disciple of a teacher or a prophet (human being). So, it looks like Jesus was rather asking people to be his disciples, not worshippers!
Atta boy is a better Muhammedan than sheik Quaradwi now?
And is he also a better Muhammedan than the Ayatollah Khomeini?
Funny that we have never heard of him as a great muslim scholar and historian. When I see his -typically distorted- muhammedan history picture above I just know that he is not far from developing SJS- otherwise known as 'sudden jihad syndrome'- are you gonna grow up to blow up boy, or will you lead some kind of productive life?
Multiculti-diversity at its best:
Aussie Diversity Director Calls for Muslim Prayer Rooms in All Universities
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/09/04/aussie-diversity-director-calls-for-muslim-prayer-rooms-in-all-universities/
Scroll down, TODAY'S FARTWA:
Muhammad’s Pipi Cures All Your Ills!
@ataa
You argument is about the 10 events that Christians are responsible for is TOTALLY incorrect. I could put the word human or muslim or ______(you fill in the blank) and it would be partly true. It is in man naturally to war and treat others wickedly.
Christian teaching and Christ himself according to the Bible did not condone or teach any of its followers to do any of these things.
However, Islam, the koran and allah cheer, reward and command these 'big ten' actions.
So just using these points. Whose god and religion is greater and for the benefit of all mankind, Islam or Christ?
James 1:4
What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you?
جيمس 1:4
ما هي اسباب النزاعات والمعارك بين ما هي الأسباب؟ أليس هذا ، ان قيادتكم هي العواطف في الحرب؟
sheik yer'mami asked:
"are you gonna grow up to blow up..."
No, that's your business, you hatemongering fanatics!
I'll just try to show what hatemongering fanatics the participants of this Spencer 'hate blog' are.
Islam causes circular reasoning -- as exampled by ataaboy.
Im.mad.as.HELL!
You have not read Bible (again, King James version, among many versions) either!
What does Luke 19:27 proclaim as Jesus saying in "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
If you need I can send more of these snippets :-)
The sheik yer'mami diagnosis was spot on:
Attaa boy is ready to blow, SJS can affect him any moment now.
Tried anger management yet, atta boy?
Is that you or your daddy, atta boy?
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/handsome.jpg
@ataa
Wow, that means Jesus called his people as 'disciples' of him, not his worshippers or creations? So, he was not claiming deity? People worship God, but become disciple of a teacher or a prophet (human being). So, it looks like Jesus was rather asking people to be his disciples, not worshippers!
Your splitting hairs and don't understand what a disciple of the Lord is much less who Jesus is.
John 20:27-28
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust your hand into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus is showing Thomas his wounds from the cross. He responds in worship. Was he wrong? Did Jesus correct him in that he was only to worship God? NO!
John 15:15
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
You could interchange disciple with servant, means the same thing. God has given himself in Christ completely to his friends (disciples). Has allah done that, I think not? He just wants man to submit or die. Jesus dies so man can worship God without spot or sin. Allah is not the Father of Jesus. Allah is not the creator, Jesus is the creator.
I am not going to debate Christianity on this thread because the subject is Islam and people killing themselves and others for it.
@ataa
What does Luke 19:27 proclaim as Jesus saying in "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
Context ataa context! This is a parable. Do you know what a parable is? You did not answer or prove my statements about Islam wrong. You only ripped a verse out of context and changed the subject. I am ignoring you because you are not debating fairly. Like they said yesterday you are a troll. Remember the definition of a troll?
Christianity is a religion for the intellect. It appeals to the reasoning of men, it is logical; unlike islam, where reasoning is not only impossible, but forbidden.
All islam requires is a fear of the sword. Don't question, don't reason, just accept if you want to keep your head.
I wonder why those Korean hostages were not converted to islam. Why did the muslim kidnappers seek to sexually violate the women? The Koran, of course, allowed it.
Parables are stories that Jesus told to convey a message or virtue. Atrocities are real occurences that muslims commit to convey the message of islam.
I'll just try to show what hatemongering fanatics the participants of this Spencer 'hate blog' are.
ataa:
You're doing a very good job. Every one of your posts shows what you are: a hatemongering fanatic.
Is there a mirror by your pc? Look into it and you will see what you describe, not the people on this site who want to you to understand the harm Islam does to the world and, ultimately, to you.
Naseem,
Do you know what happens to the people who died? They were in the defense ministry. Presumably, they were fighting for Islam, given that Pakistan has an Islamic government. Are they apostates or are they all martyrs, even though this wasn't the way they chose to fight for Islam? Thanks.
How Muslims imagine the last supper, from a 'progressive' artist, click on image to enlarge:
http://sheikyermami.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/last-supper.jpg
@ topic
Looks like misery loves company, and they want company on their "spiritual struggle".
Hmmm..."main jihad"-has a ring to it.
That reminds me...didn't some other guy write something about his own "kampf" in the 1920s?
Seems to be popular over there.
;-)
ataa,
It's awake, the reasonable poster here, in your estimation. Please address the context of my post or cease and desist from this line of thinking on your part.
Respectfully,
awake :)
Im.mad.as.HELL says:
"I am not going to debate Christianity on this thread..."
I know you are not! When you said Muslims killed people, I gave you some data showing that Christians have done even worse. So you veered off to say, 'well Christians may have commited violence, but Christianity does not teach that' logic. Well, I gave an example from Bible to show that Bible does clearly talk about violence (in fact clearer than the verses of Jesus claiming deity). Now you suddenly understand that context is needed to explain Bible! Where is your logic about context in understanding Qur'an?
Do you see the folly?
In his 1999 book (The Taliban Phenomenon: 1994-7) kamal Matinuddin disclosed that the Taliban eradicated heroin in some areas, while taking 15% of sales from Pashto districts like Helmand (drug capitol of the world) Since GWB chose to nation-build in the Afghan pig-pen, the country has gone beyond being an opium cultivator to heroin producers. And factories straddle the Pakistan border. NATO is doing little more than protecting a drug industry that is debilitating NATO countries. Download the UN's latest report on the drug industry in the Central Asian cess pool, and you will see how eradication is selective, and how growers are using both Taliban and Karzai's (a Pashto) worthless government as a cover for expansion of the drug trade. Clearly, Taliban has a 2 track program: make jihad against kafirs and protect selective opium growers and heroin factories. Karzai is a Fraud. Bush is a Fraud.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070903/taliban_fight_070903/20070903?hub=TopStories
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/AFG07_ExSum_web.pdf
(See map on last page; shaded brown areas indicate heroin factory areas that didn't exist until Bush
chose to subsidize America's mortal enemies. There are over 2,000,000 heroin addicts in both Pakistan and Iran (the speaker of the Iranian Parliament is an addict)
NATO should: topple Karzai and remove all Pashtos from power; pull back into areas where remnant Northern Alliance members holds effective power; napalm the poppy fields and heroin factories; pressure Musharaf to outlaw Jamaat-i-Islami drug profiteers.
Bush built Afghanistan, under subsidized Islamofascism, has become so harsh to Muslim women that many commit or attempt suicide, usually by burning.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070709/women_afghanistan_070709/20070709/
I apologize for NATO's legitimation of the same
ideological animals who planned 9-11 on Afghan soil and executed in on US soil. I admit that the
salvaging of near bankrupt Pakistan, and re-creation
of Taliban-lite, is a figurative spit on the graves of our war dead.
ataa- If all islam wants is to save souls, why is it that only muslims are allowed to handle a true koran? Why does allah put a seal on non-believers hearts so that they do not know the 'truth'? If allah really wanted all people to know islam why doesn't he just put it in their hearts?
ataa,
Last call.
awake
"Interior spiritual strugglers cause mass casualties in Pakistan"
On the day we attack military and nuclear targets in Iran, we should announce it as an interior spiritual struggle.
supercargo,
One shouldn't take any information coming from a Muhammedan, Kamal Matinuddin, from a Taliban state, seriously.
Remember, 'War is Deception..'
Borg asked:
"If all islam wants is to save souls, why is it that only muslims are allowed to handle a true koran? Why does allah put a seal on non-believers hearts so that they do not know the 'truth'? If allah really wanted all people to know islam why doesn't he just put it in their hearts?"
Where did you get that weird info, Borg? Did Spencer supplied that to you or did you get it from somewhere else? Please tell me!
A verse in Qur'an says that it should be touched while one is in a state of cleanliness, and that applies to Muslims and non-Muslims alike. So where did you find that 'only muslims are allowed to handle a true koran'? And what is a 'true koran' anyway? Qur'an has only one version, for last 1400 years. It does not have many versions, or an authenticated version by some King or so.
About putting seal, that's how Qur'an describes those who deliberately decide not to listen to the truth. There are two types of people, one that do not know about truth and the other that ignore truth even after being exposed to it. And Qur'an describes the second type as if their heart has been sealed because of their deliberate aversion to truth. Islam does claim that one has to willingly accept truth to be a believer. Does not Christianity claim the same?
supercargo,
One shouldn't take any information coming from a Muhammedan, Kamal Matinuddin, from a Taliban state, seriously.
Remember, 'War is Deception..'
aata:
Your lame attempts at find "moral relativism" in Christianity to justify Islam's obvious war on civilization are entirely off-point...because Christianity, along with Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism et. al. has made peace with the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. I live at complete peace with Jews who live across the street from me, because they are secure enough in their faith that they do not feel a compunction--or even a faith-based directive--to kill me if I do not convert. They believe despite their freedom, which shows conviction and a true soul-searching and therefore validates their faith. Islam is clearly crude brainwashing at best. None of us with a rational mind buys it. You are an inferior, unfortunate people so frustrated by your obvious lack of competence on the human stage that you resort to violence. Islam is a global version of a child's hissy fit.
JohnAdams,
Good to see that you have posted your first comment in this thread by calling names (inferior, unfortunate people...). That tells me that you do not have any argument, rather you just want to shut me off by shouting profanity.
Anyway, your statement that "Christianity, along with Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism et. al. has made peace with the SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE" is plainly wrong. In some places, secular Christians have done a better job of SEPARATION (such as the USA). But the religious Christians are trying hard to overturn that. Just listen to their radio and tv shows and you'll know what I mean. So, don't feel too complacent. Israel is a "Jewish" state, what does that tell you? A large number of Indians want to make India a 'Hindu Rastro' (hindu land). Buddhists never were an organized religious group as Christians or Muslims etc. So, your comparison is not much valid.
Now, about living in harmony, go read history. It's Christians who killed people of other religions in mass scales, not Muslims. Also, many non-Muslims live in Muslim majority countries without being converted. Go travel to Malaysia, Indonesia, Bangladesh etc. and you will see that with your own eyes. But most of you in this blog are so blinded by hatred that these are not visible to you.
Nobody is asking you to be Muslim or anything, you be whatever you want to be. But to debase the religion of one-fifth of humanity as 'crude brainwashing' tells more about you than that faith that you are trying to demean. You are just showing your true color.
Wooow! Listen to this demented troglodyte!
Then why do we have so many 'Islamic' states, like Iran, like Saudi Arabia, like everywhere where islam created a mental desert, where the native Christians, Jews, Animists, Zaroastrians. Buddhists, Hindu's etc. have all been wiped out?
My dear retard:
Israel is a Jewish nation, so what? No nation in the world has a more documented historical and biblical claim over 5000 years, even your Koran, your very own filthy book, confirms that Israel is for the Jews!
Pakistan is founded on Islam and nothing but Islam, Turkey is 99% islamic (although they still pretend to be 'secular') Afghanistan wiped out all the Buddhists and Hindu's, and Indonesia is on the way to do the same thing.
Too bothersome: You're projecting, atta!
Exactly what islam is doing, you are projecting onto Western, enlighened nations, who no longer adhere to any oppressive belief-system like the one that shackles you.
Pathetic! How very pathetic!
And leave us alone with your 'fifth of humanity' BS, your 6.5 gazillion muslims and the fastest breeding mob the world has ever seen, it doesn't wash!
Your people are stupid, illiterate and poor because of Islam, your nations are failed nations because of Islam, and you have no future in your belief-sytem because everything is based on robbery, slavery, conquest, booty: You have nothing to give, and you don't have what you need to take it!
Go trucking with a camel!
"Islam is a global version of a child's hissy fit"....HAAHHAAA!!!
ataa's answer to awake: To answer your question, these terrible acts are done by terrorists, not jihadists. Even if they call themselves that, they are not jihadists.
There seems to be a hole here which perhaps ataa is not aware he is digging. This 'internal struggle' jihad is internal only to Islam, not to us. Whether he chooses to call them 'terrorists' or 'jihadists' are terms endemic to his world, not ours. We know, from our perspective, both are the same to us. We really do not care to make the distinction between the two, because both have the same objective, to subdue the world for their allah. The hole ataa is digging is that this fight is taking place now in the 'slave pits' of Pakistan or Afghanistan, or Iraq or Algeria, or Somalia or Iran, they are all islamic states. So the struggle between jihadists and terrorists is self contained in their world, where it belongs.
The only thing that concerns us, we who are not part of the islamic slave pits, is when their fight spills over onto us. Then rather than being bemused spectators, we must stop the brawl. If ataa and naseem and others wish to debate the merits and demerits of their jihadic faith, let them. It's of little concern to us. And to bring in Judeo-Christian scripture into the picture is irrelevant. We don't care. It is their fight. I'm for grabbing a beer and pretzels and getting a ringside seat. Their twisted jihadi mentality is self destructing right before our eyes, with suicide bombs, genocidal killings, kidnappings, etc. Their fight is internal, their struggle. Let 'em at it!
May the last jihadi win, and when the fight is done, may he too in good form of Islam's 'last days' self destruct. Do we care? Does JW care? Does anybody care? Read my lips. "No."
I heard that if we destroyed (pick a method, napalm?) the bright red poppy crops which are the financial income for the taliban, and in full bloom currently, we would cripple them. Frank Zappa,God rest his soul, suggested using 'pork grenades' against these "people". Is there some reason the simple and obvious ideas are not used? Perhaps the will of our government is NOT to defeat our enemies. Can the government be prosecuted for TREASON against the people? Come on now, simpleness is usually good. Let's try some of the simple ideas. When the poppies are in bloom they are an easy target. Wipe out the poppy fields and let loose a bunch of pigs throughout the muslim world. Arm our soldiers also with water cannons full of pig piss. BAN THE kORAN. Give their kids Crayons, not korans. These "people" are apparently too stupid to be reasoned with and our government is too stupid to see that trying to reason with them is futile.
Battle_of_Tours,
Calm down, your vulgarity is showing! Here's an answer to your vulgar post:
What is that big talk about "Judeo-Christian scripture"? A believing Jew wouldn't accept the "Christian" part of the scripture, and a believing Christian would not believe that "Jewish" faith can lead to salvation. So what's that "Judeo-Christian" mottley? It's a new term concocted by the opportunists of both Judeo and Christian faiths. It's not a faith-based term. It did not exist before.
But of course some scriptures can be re-written to fit the followers whims! It has been done before, that's what history tells. Have you ever thought how a religious scripture, supposed to be from God, can have a Royal version that was authorized centuries later (talking about King James version here)? I think the next version will be the "Judeo-Christian" one.
ataa: What is that big talk about "Judeo-Christian scripture"? A believing Jew wouldn't accept the "Christian" part of the scripture, and a believing Christian would not believe that "Jewish" faith can lead to salvation. So what's that "Judeo-Christian" mottley? It's a new term concocted by the opportunists of both Judeo and Christian faiths.
Proves my point. It's irrelevant. What does it have to do with jihadis and terrorists killing each other in Pakistan? Dig boy, dig deep. We're just watching the toxi islamic show. Fun, eh?
Hopeless, clueless, worthless atta troll:
beyond reason, without understanding, without history (except a skewered concept of 'Islamic' history which is based on distortions and fairy tales)
You merely confirm that you know nothing about scriptures other than the Koran, that filthy book. But do you know that even?
what good is literacy when it doesn't enhance knowledge?
attaa troll is the typical example of the tapdancing dervish, unable to discuss any issue in context. Whingeing about 'vulgarity' doesn't add substance to your taqiyya, brother.
I'm outta here..
I hate it when people use religious texts to justify violence.
Like the Koran, for instance.
The West has risen beyond illegitimate uses of the Bible to justify its human-all-too-human aggressions and "holy wars".
And has accepted the secular state. ("Render unto Caesar" and "My kingdom is not of this world" allows for it.)
Islam, by its very dogmas, cannot.
It must establish, and enforce by terror, a theocratic tyranny.
I'll resist all such despotisms that forbid freedom of thought and deny human equality.
Does that include these pinhead colleges here, too?
lol
ataa,
i'm beginning to see why muslims become suicide bombers.
all your posturing about how christians have been the most evil people on the planet have been roundly shot up your ass.
when sensible dialogue and argument fails-i know,as a good muslim i'll go and blow myself and anybody who happens to be near me up and then enjoy my 72 virgins!allah and mohammed(pbuh)be praised.
the more the merrier-hopefully every muslim on the planet will go to paradise,then the rest of the world can get on with living peacefully.
ataa -
Thanks for responding.
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display.php?chapter=2&translator=2#7
6 As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
7 Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
.
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This type of verse is repeated frequently. I read it that Allah puts a seal on the hearts of unbelievers. If Allah wants them to come back to the faith, why seal their hearts so they cannot?
.
.
(2) O ye who believe! The idolaters only are unclean. So let them not come near the Inviolable Place of Worship after this their year. If ye fear poverty (from the loss of their merchandise) Allah shall preserve you of His bounty if He will. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise.
( سورة التوبة , At-Taubah, Chapter #9, Verse #28)
(Arabic, Transliteration, Urdu, Yusuf Ali, Shakir, Picthal, Mohsin Khan, French, Spanish, Indonesian, Melayu, German)
(4) It is not for any soul to believe save by the permission of Allah. He hath set uncleanness upon those who have no sense.
( سورة يونس , Yunus, Chapter #10, Verse #100)
If it is not for any soul to believe save by the permission of Allah, why doesn't he give permission if he wants everyone to believe?
He makes those who have no sense unclean (meaning they don't believe so he makes them dirty) If they are dirty they cannot touch an Arabic koran. Arabic koran is the only true koran. Mohammad said Arabic is Allah's language, didn't he?
Grand Ayatollah Sistani lists unbelievers as unclean also.
I've heard stories of muslims screaming when an unbeliever picked up an Arabic koran to look at it. Washing to become clean would not do, either. Because as unbelievers they can never be clean. I don't have a link for you.
Thanks again for responding. It is always interesting to hear a fresh perspective.
77 That this is indeed a qur'an Most Honourable,
78 In Book well-guarded,
79 Which none shall touch but those who are clean:
80 A Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds.
81 Is it such a Message that ye would hold in light esteem?
82 And have ye made it your livelihood that ye should declare it false?
83 Then why do ye not (intervene) when (the soul of the dying man) reaches the throat,-
84 And ye the while (sit) looking on,-
85 But We are nearer to him than ye, and yet see not,-
86 Then why do ye not,- If you are exempt from (future) account,-
87 Call back the soul, if ye are true (in the claim of independence)?
88 Thus, then, if he be of those Nearest to Allah,
89 (There is for him) Rest and Satisfaction, and a Garden of Delights.
90 And if he be of the Companions of the Right Hand,
91 (For him is the salutation), "Peace be unto thee", from the Companions of the Right Hand.
92 And if he be of those who treat (Truth) as Falsehood, who go wrong,
93 For him is Entertainment with Boiling Water.
94 And burning in Hell-Fire.
I read this to mean that unbelievers, who are called unclean repeatedly, can not touch the book. Especially since the end talks about unbelievers. Who are entertainment for Allah.
ataa,
i'll address the christian violence with you. you're wrong about the numbers.
more people have been killed by muslim mujihadeen in the past 4 (FOUR) years than 350 (THREE HUNDRED FIFTY) years of the spanish inquisition.
WANNA TRY THAT CRAP AGAIN? BRING IT...
Re: ataa
Quote
You clearly don't know history. Christians have killed most people in the world. Start counting the big ten - 1) Crusades, 2) Eradicating of natives in North America and Australia, 3) Spanish inquisition, 4) Centuries of wars in Europe 5) Witch hunt, 6) Killing off of Hawaiian indigenous people, 7)First world war, 8) Second world war 9) Vietnam, 10) The killings by Soviet Union ...
Add those up and you'll see (may be not, if you are blinded by hatred) what Christians have done throughout the history. They have colonized the world for their own pleasure, given plague to natives, slavery to Africans and atom bombs to Japanese. They have invented the weapons of mass murder. And you talk about mass murder! Shameless!
I have mentioned before, many Muslims have done terrible things thoughout the history, but those are just as terrible as those done by others, such as Christians.
unquote...
A red herring, what matters is today, not decades ago.
Who is doing the killing today? ISLAM, MUSLIMS
and they are mostly killing each other.
Read about the islamic conquest of India. 60 to 80 million in the inital invasion. That's more than all the recorded history of other groups combined.
And they did that in a very short time.
And without any modern weapons.
That should read more than any other groups combined per war.
And they only stopped because they realized that they were worth more alive paying the jizya.
#6-10 of Ata's list wasn't 'Christians' killing off other people, since no religious pretexts were used. Spanish inquisition is a legitimate example, but aside from the wars against the Jews and the Incas/Aztecs, those wars and pogroms were mainly directed against non-Catholic Christians. In other words, it was intra-Christian warfare, much like Shia-Sunni conflicts.
ROFLMAO!
Infidel Pride,
Yeah...I just noticed those. I was too busy replying to #3 to catch the subsequent ones.
ataa,
Influences:
#7 - Nationalism
#8 - Nationalism, Nazism, Communism
#9 - Communism
#10 - Communism
See a pattern here? Hmm????
And BTW, #1 occurred in direct defense of Christianity from 300+ years of Islamic jihad in Jerusalem & surrounding areas.
Sounds to me like someone needs to stop drinking the Kool-Aid...
Right on, Borg...best argument yet.
Stalin's record can't compare to the four rightly guided caliph's. No one ever mentions them.
Don't bother reading Wikipedia for info either. It is glaringly obvious that Muslims control the content.
I know it's late but I would like to sugggest that ataaaa read Fregosi's "Jihad". It is an historically correct version of centuries of muslim brutality in the civilized world. The truth shall set you free.