Osama is in Chitral, Pakistan: US experts

"Make of this what you will."
-- comment above to the latest locating by this or that intelligence service of Bin Laden

What should be made of it? Nothing much, except that the absurd hypertrophied attention to Bin Laden continues to mislead, sometimes innocently, those who confuse Jihad with "terorrism" (one instrument of Jihad among many), who confuse "terrorism" with Bin Laden, and who therefore think that Bin Laden this, and Bin Laden that, is what matters. A whole industry, and a small army of I-seen-my-opportunities-and-I-took-'em "experts" -- ranging from Peter Bergen, who Interviewed Bin Laden. to Michael Scheuer, who was the C.I.A. Bin Laden Secialist, have been dining out ever since on their supped expertise on "terrorism" and hence, on "Jihad."

And Bush, who is terminally confused but unfortunately it is an entire country -- the United States -- and Infidels everywhere who are payiing for that terminal confusion, himelf endows Bin Laden with quite unnecesary significance.

Eventually Bin Laden will be captured, or will die. So what? What does that mean for the Jihad, which is a permanent duty of Islam? It will mean nothing to the Islamic side. But, unfortunately, it may be taken by the idiotized Infidel side to be of great significance, of meaning that the "war" is coming to "an end." There is no end to this war. Never. It is a perfectly manageable war, especailly if the Infidels show that they cannot be fooled, that they will not continue as before (especially as regards Muslim immigration, or Muslim attempts to change, in the slightest, our own political and legal institutions and understandings, and attempts as well to dictate, in the universities and in the schools, what Infidels are allowed to learn about Islam).

Bin Laden needs to be ridimensionato -- cut down to size, seen in due proportion, not because Islam is not a threat, but because it is.

There are a million more Osamas coming from the terroristic verses in the Koran if that is not opposed, exposed, and defeated.

He's a symptom.

The Koran is the illness.

the Al Qaeda chief also has sympathisers in that area.

Nuclear Hellfire shall commence in 8 minutes, target: Chitral

be done with these fu*ks now (today), sainted US MILITARY - - - -

what the f*ck are we waitng for ? ? ?

I am NO expert on any of this at all.. I will be the first to say so.. BUT.. I have watched the hideous mask of the islamic MONSTER develop to fininally manifest itself in our very midst..

So ALL I can say is.. HOW can I possibly be surprised by any of this?!

UNLESS, or course, I am indeed the fascist.. the Nazi.. which I've been ordained to be so very often even by the [what I thought were] the closest of friends when I brought up this topic among what I [mostly wrongfully] assumed to be my open-minded and "non-juggmental" friends...

Strange, isn't it.. to have these very "liberal" and "openminded" friends.. and once you mention any possible misgivings about the "religion" of islam you turn into an INSTANT OUTCAST??!!

Being a GERMAN.. well.. you can ONLY guess what I have had to listen to!!

From my very own family included!

I am disowned and ridiculed at the same time.. and yet.. I CANNOT yield and LIE!! I've had these misgivings about islam for such a very long time and I just DO NOT GET IT!!!!

Weren't we GERMANS who were born after the Holocaust in PARTICULAR charged to STAND UP for the Jews and to DEFEND them in the face of anyone who wished to further persecute them from that day on??!!!

Does that not mean that we should stand in the defense of the ONE Jewish State which is known by the name of Israel?!!!

In my view not only Germans should stand in Her defense because I always felt that this nascent and hopeful and ambitious State deserved the support of everyone world-wide really!

But heck.. if others like the French and the Brits and whomever should have their reasons not to.. I used to LOVE the Americans for their unwavering stance and I watched my German governments for their equaniminous support.

At first the German press and body politic seemed to stand behind the nascent and very fierce Jewish State and I hated the dastardly Arab attempts at threatening and undermining it..

Throughout the years I have had to witness not only my very own German government waver in their defense of the ideals which I saw borne within this both New and Ancient People's Quest for peaceful self-determination in optimistic Prosperity.

As depressing as the bungled hostage rescue attempt at the Munich Olympics was for me I was even MORE demoralized by the all-too sudden release of the perpetrators of this calculately SICK attack not only upon the sanctity of the Olympic Games but even more so the depraved and equally calculatedly ploy to harm Jewish [Israeli] athletes who had come to Germany to participate in the fist Olympic Games on German soil after the ignoble Games in Berlin of 1936.

To me.. as a German.. I felt that we had the UTMOST of responsability and honor to host Israeli [Jewish] athletes on German soil in the first ever Olympics to take place in a repentant Germany wishing to make up for the demons.. for all of those misdeeds of our past.. misdeeds [for lack of a stronger term right now - I won't quibble] which the participation of the Israeli athletes were so graciously helping us cast out those ugy demons of the past!! yes, I reread what I wrote and I cannot reformulate this in proper grammar and I am asking for your understanding.. everyone!

What I am trying to say is that we all wanted this to be a DIFFERENT.. a NEW... an innocent Olympics.. so opposed to the ones at Berlin in 1936 and it was those Arafat terrorists who cynically chose to introduce the concept of violence against unarmed civilians for the VERY FIRST TIME EVER IN OLYMPIC HISTORY!!

I am not saying that I am outraged that they chose to do this in their sick and calculated play to harm Jewish athletes on German soil for the first time ever after the Holocaust!! Who am I, after all to resent them for doing that since I am not a Jew??!!

And yet, I DID **HATE** and resent them for that very thing!!

I KNEW immdediately why thi savage attack upon the sanctity and the Spirit of the Olympic Games on German soil would be unprecendented not only as such but also specifically by their brazen attack on Jewish athletes participating in an Olympics which all of Germany wanted to present itself in a new and peaceful manner to the entire world.

To attack Israeli/Jewish athletes at these Olympics has left me with an incurable rage and anger toward the cynical perpetrators of this vile satanic act. I came to grips with this only by the realization of how depraved the ideology of islam truly is.

In my mind we Germans were responsible for the well-being of all of the Olympic athletes, but the Israeli ones in particular. Noone would have ever thought that someone would carry out such a sick and completely inhumane attack in totaly violation of the Olympic Spirit!! THAT DAY I realized that their hatred carried even further than German Anti-Semitism and Nazism.. even Hitler let Jesse Owens win his medals in Berlin in 1936. As much as he fumed and raged.. he left and he wouldn't acknowledge Jess Owens.. but the man was free to collect his medals and to leave the country in safety..

Yes, that is how SICK it made me to witness what these BASTARDS did at the Munich Olympics.. They acted even worse than NAZIS.

I know that is a hard thing to do. But they did.

They KNEW that the participation of Israeli athletes in Munich was a sensitive and a very Big Deal at the time.. and STILL and ESPECIALLY for that very reason they sought fit to do what they did!!

So now I HATE them EVER SINCE!!!

I WANTED these Olympics to be about everything that is right and good.. as I think so many Germans did..

But now that I look back on things.. WHY were the perpetrators who were caught let go after only 15 months [see the movie 'Munich']??

And WHY is the German press so often on the side of those who celebrate this kind of atrocity on our soil?? During the OLYMPICS no less??!!

I am sorry if I am wandering off-topic here.. BUT!!!! What I AM getting at here is...:::

HOW can any of our Western Media WILLFULLY IGNORE the DEPRAVED and CYNICAL actions of an unrepentant enemy not only of "the Jews" but of us all??!!

Don't get me wrong.. if the enemy were directed STRICTLY against "the Jews" and not against anyone else.. I would oppose them EQUALLY!!

Not only have I learned that we must stand up for those who are being bullied for no reason but I also know that I have a special responsability to stand up against anyone who would exercise violence or intimidation against anyone.

The knowledge that anti-Semitism is nowadays fashionably cloaked in "anti-globalism" and the like in Germany makes me SICK.

SICK.

Sick. Sick Sick.

I don't know how to express my disgust any other way.

What do any of my Germans think we meant by "NEVER AGAIN"??!!

So they week to join the fashionable leftist press in England and in other European lands??

So they think they can shed the mantle of Nazism and of anti-Semitism by casting the Jews [as manifest by the State of Israel] as the perpetrators and casting the unrelenting enemies of the Jews as their victims - simply because the Jews were able to assert and defend their rights in a meaningful way?

God, I am a German and I love my country as I love all the lovely Western lands I have been privileged to visit.. and the USA where I live for so long now.. but.. HOW and WHY can ANY German or any other GODDAMN college student asshat in UK, AUS, CAN or USA POSSIBLY eat up this anti-Semitic propaganda which currently spews forth across the campuses of our lands??!!

Can ANY of YOU ***POSSIBLY*** keep an open mind and differentiate between victim and perpetrator already??!!

If you CANNOT.. then I have nothing else to say to you.. except.. that YOU will be the victims of your very own inability to think straight some day SOONER THAN YOU THINK!!

Sorry, but things ARE that bleak.

TO MY: my German "now American" friend "Allahfanculo". . .

you are a genius

you nailed IT

well done . . .

(CJ in NC)

What a load of crap!

Wow..!! CJ in NC.. I didn't expect THAT much of a positive reaction.. but I am delighted :-)

I was trying to vent and at the same time to explain how easy it is for people to allow ourselves to be shackled mentally.. and ultimately turned around to serve the false Gods of Political Correctness.. ie. islam.

I mean.. how could the islamofascists ever assume the mantle of the persecuted Jews??!!

Answer: They're DAMN GOOD at it and very well-practiced historically!

What makes Chitralk so impossible for the PK forces to look for OBL there? So if they cannot we can do it FOR THEM!!

I think they are full of shyte so let's call them on it!!!

Allahfanculo, wohne in Bonn, weiß, was Du meinst.
Bitte, nicht verwzeifeln, andere sind auch deine Ansicht.

Hey, I live in Bonn and know what you mean. Please don't despair, others think as you think.

The Islamists are just fortunate enough to come along, with money, at a time when political correctness is blinding the West to the threat. If I say I don't want a mosque in my neighborhood because these people have proven themselves to be out of their freakin' minds, suddenly I'm a bigot.

But, yes, it is perfectly o.k. for THEM to hate Jews and send money to organizations that kill them.

I just finished reading "The Places in Between" by Rory Stewart, a really great travel book. The young, multi-lingual author walked across Afghanistan from Herat to Kabul, subsisting on handouts and hospitality from locals the whole way. He points out that while hospitality is a moral obligation in Islamic culture, it is often given reluctantly. He was in considerable danger in the Sunni Pashtun regions, which tend to be pro-Taliban and pro-Al Qaeda, so he had to hide his Scottish/British identity there.
While he met many kind people, there was also an enormous amount of violence, and the violence of the Taliban was especially brutal. Unfortunately, the author, for all his erudition, did not connect the violence to Islam, which he considers too complex and culturally diverse to categorize.

Robert, Hugh, and everyone else here, the jihad war regardless of OBL is alive or not will go on. It is because it is a visable part of the great and unseen war going on between Heaven and Hell.

Allahfanculo, I'm with you.

Just to add a couple points on my post about Stewart's "The Places in Between".
First, the walk took place in 2001 just after the coalition toppled the Taliban.
Second, is the striking irrelevance of most of what passes for reform by the various foreign aid and development agencies. There is a stark contrast between the pretentious sounding goals of the yuppies churning out position papers and the backwardness of the population. Most of Afghanistan's people live without plumbing or electricity, in rural isolation, though they generally have enough food. Yet, the first world do-gooders depict them as starving, and sophisticated enough to want a multi-ethnic democratic government. Stewart points out that in colonialist days, despite the prejudices, at least the administrators were helped by a cadre of dedicated workers who moved to the countries, learned the language and knew a lot about the local conditions.

Hugh-

It is true that Bin Laden is a side-freak show that distracts from the pervasive issue of Jihad. However, at least Bin Laden is honest and is reaching for some self-respect in a culture of deceit. Deceit and dishonesty are so ingrained in Islam that it has to create a culture where people will not really respect themselves. Look at the recommendations of Muhammad Taqi Usmani and one is looking at a very sick culture. It is loathsome.

In the final analysis, from their point of view, many Muslims paranoically see the transport and the communications juggernaut of the past 60 years as if it were an attack upon them. Actually it's a process that is uncovering a culture of deceit. Everything with this culture is a lie. All they have is propaganda and deceit and an aggressiveness that covers, camouflages, compensates for a cultural emptiness. What kind of a culture extols lying?

allahfanculo - the Islamofascists are playing the victim card, just like Goebbels and his propaganda had the Germans as the victims of the Jews - which, of course, was an utter and complete lie.

Ask Frank about this strategy.

darcy

Indeed, dear.

wouldnt it be better to NOT advertise around the world the area you think hes hiding until youv searched the area?

Osama bin Laden is in Chitral,.. JW

NA, he is in Karachi. As Hugh pointed out, who cares about OBL. Our focus should be on Jihad. My interpretation of Jihad is that it is one of the true interfaces of Islam.

To defeat Jihad would mean to defeat Islam. Once Jihad is defeated, OBL will end up in the void, into nothingness.

Having stated that, I think OBL has the potential to be the next mad Mohd. From that perspective, he is not insignificant as Hugh calculating it to be. It will depend on our leads, how they will manage the next crises arisen from the daemons of Alla, which according to various intelligence analysis are in the pipe-line and will be upon us before the year end, or latest just after our Presidential elections.

Well, this year 9/11 again falls on Tuesday.

I wish there was some national protest against Islamization here as there is in Brussels, but of course there isn't. When???

Looking so forward to hearing how Brussels goes. And wish I could just hop a jet across the pond to be there and participate! Well, I will eat Brussels sprouts on Tuesday, which I love.

Go Brussels protesters against Islamization of Europe!!!

"they havw a code of hospitality for their guests"......huh????... What happened to "We will make no distinction between the terrorists and those that harbor them"

I don't care where he is, I want those hacks who keep insisting he has twisted Islam to prove it.

So, a drone, flying 24/7 (replacements just like on a stakeout) cant ever locate him ? Is he kept indoors at all hours ? He is not even trying to get a moon tan ?

He may not be the initiating force, but he is seen as the big cheese, so lets take him out.

Then there's Ayman, just some icing on the cake.

Then there's the Saudi 'royal' family and their legion of bribees in the beltway.

Want to see sweat on the faces of these bribees.

Hey Frank, how about this for strategy:

Two thousand years ago Chinese Warrior Sun Tzu wrote: "Those skilled in warfare make themselves invicible and then wait for the enemy to become vulnerable."

Which, imo, the Mohammedans are accomplishing right now by 1. Infiltration, and 2. Procreation.

By eventually winning through Infiltration and Demographics, the Mohammedans will fulfill Sun Tzu's famous dictum, "To win without fighting is best."

So, I doubt that Mohammed ever heard of Sun Tzu, but in the bloody "Muhammed" chapter (67) is "Be not fainthearted then; and invite not the infidels to peace when ye have the upper hand" (verse 37, which I think is the "bide your time" verse, akin to Sun Tzu's advice. Please correct if I'm mistaken.

Interesting that both Sun Tzu and Mohammed were warriors, isn't it, lol! Hey Mo, the jig is up - we know you "wrote" (dictated) the Koran!

Bang on Darcy, and since Islam is not the enemy , is not a threat and never could be, we will never know what hit us.

" eventually winning through Infiltration and Demographics, the Mohammedans will fulfill Sun Tzu's famous dictum, "To win without fighting is best."
--- from a posting above

In Iraq, would there be any conceivable way to follow Sun Tzu's dictum -- "to win without fighting is best"? Is there any way that the Administration, or those who dislike its policy in Iraq, can imagine a way to allow the internal differences among Muslims, Sunni and Shi'a, Arab and Kurd, in that country to play themselves out, and very likely draw into the conflict, or affect co-religionists (in the case of Sunni and Shi'a Arab) or other non-Arab Muslims (in the case of the Kurds).

Eventually Bin Laden will be captured, or will die. So what?

What does that mean for the Jihad, which is a permanent duty of Islam? It will mean nothing to the Islamic side. But, unfortunately, it may be taken by the idiotized Infidel side to be of great significance, of meaning that the "war" is coming to "an end."

There is no end to this war. Never. It is a perfectly manageable war, especailly if the Infidels show that they cannot be fooled, that they will not continue as before (especially as regards Muslim immigration, or Muslim attempts to change, in the slightest, our own political and legal institutions and understandings, and attempts as well to dictate, in the universities and in the schools, what Infidels are allowed to learn about Islam).

Bin Laden needs to be ridimensionato -- cut down to size, seen in due proportion, not because Islam is not a threat, but because it is.

"To win without fighting is best."-Sun Tzu

I see your point, Darcy. However, I don't think they follow Sun Tzu's dictum very well. Every where they go they become a security threat and an obvious menace to public safety. They are as subtle as a nail-bomber on a bus. They have announced their intentions and only the delusional cannot see that they must impose Sharia law. If we can become energy independent (which is right around the corner) we should follow Sun Tzu's advice and keep a safe distance from them as they tear each other apart over who is a real Muslim.

The thing that strikes me about Muslim dominated countries is how ethnically homogeneous they are (look at how Saudi Arabia treats non-Arabs, e.g.). That's generally true for Arabs ("the best people"). They are not ethnically diverse societies. Muslims probably have more contact with other Muslims from different ethnic groups in the USA or Europe than they ever have in their home countries.

There is smell of racial-ethnic hypocrisy to them too. Islamic culture is dishonest-even about race-ethnicity. The deception and self deception (Fibreahim Hooper, CAIR slanders, Goose Creek Jihad, Flying Imam stunts, even Moe Howard professor Karl Ernst have the taint of deception and propaganda (using propaganda words such as "islamophobia", e.g.).

"To win without fighting is best."-especially if Muslims can be kept at a safe distance.

Hugh,

I agree, I think we pay entirely too much attention to Bin Laden, to the point that it's become a distraction from the bigger and more serious problem facing us.

We act as if we killed Bin Laden Jihad would disappear, when in fact, there are millions of Bin Ladens out there. Bin Laden might or might not be in Chitral, but why should we waste so much time and energy trying to figure it out. The man probably has little to do with directing Al Qaeda operations anyway.

Bin Laden's value to terrorism is as a symbol -- a symbol we've helped to create with our obsession with trying to locate, kill and capturing him.

The Bin Ladens we should be worrying about are the ones in New York, Berlin, Paris and London, and the ones we continue to import into the West every day. They're the ones that will be strapping bombs to themselves and blowing us up --not the one in Chitral.

The level of ignorance of the Islamic threat to our security was epotomized recently by Presidential candidates Edwards and Obama, who vowed to go to war in Pakistan just to capture Bin Laden, when they should have demanded that Muslim immigration to the U.S. be stopped. Instead they continue to pretend, as most Western leaders do, that the whole problem of Islamic terrorism is centered in one man. Kill him and it's all over.

Our response to Bin Laden should be to have a Judge issue an arrest warrant against him for murder, and then say as little as possible about the man.

It's time we get down to the Islamic threat, not the fictional Bin Laden threat.

Allahfanculo: HOW can any of our Western Media WILLFULLY IGNORE the DEPRAVED and CYNICAL actions of an unrepentant enemy not only of "the Jews" but of us all??!!

Now that's a dandy question. The media cover-up has long tentacles. Our local paper (small) has a web site with a comments section. Mostly rabid Bush hating liberals post there. Yesterday I posted this comment made by Justice Muhammad Taqi Usmani who argues that 'Muslims should live peacefully in countries such as Britain, where they have the freedom to practise Islam, only until they gain enough power to engage in battle'.

It is gone this morning. I shall send the webmaster 'another' e-mail of complaint. Those who bash Bush and deny any Islamic threat, never have their posts pulled. Rabid Jewish hating comments seem to linger while anything opposing that, has a shorter shelf life. Whatever disease the media has, it must be contagious...
Thanks for your post, it was personal, and real...
Have a good day...

Allafanculo, your heart is in the right place.

The crux of the biscuit is this:

Instead of fighting evil we are now conditioned to believe that fighting is evil.

Germans, especially the post war generations, carry this disease like a banner. Nothing is worth fighting for, I believe you call it 'null bock' - but it is by no means a German thing, its everywhere, except in Islamistan, where they teach the exact opposite.

Sad news from Germany, however:

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/09/09/rabbi-attacked-and-stabbed-in-the-street-in-frankfurt/

As Hugh pointed out, who cares about OBL

Huh? Granted, killing or arresting OBL wouldn't bring an end to all evil or wrap up the war against militant Islam.

It would, however, bring to justice the man directly responsible for murdering 3000 Americans - reason enough, I would think, to find and apprehend him, even if a few hills and Pashtun tribesmen might hinder the search.

No, let's speak plainly. We know where OBL is. We should desire, burningly, to bring him to justice.

The fact that we refrain from delivering justice can only be explained by our desire not to escalate, or to preserve the option of an attack on AQ leadership as a response to a greater provocation.

Hugh, jewdog, Frank, and Darcy; Kudos for being spot on.
Got back from a fortnight in the mountains and got the 'terps (G.I. slang for interpreter) to 'fess up that the people want us to go away so they can live their lives in their tribal ways. They hate us and want us gone. Wasn't suprised by this in the least. Jibes well with jewdog's assesment from "The Places In Between" 'Yet, the first world do-gooders depict them as starving, and sophisticated enough to want a multi-ethnic democratic government.' Oh, man, a multi-ethnic government, just put a Pashtun in a room with a Hazara and watch that myth evaporate!

Guess what else I've learned being boots on the ground? Got the 'terps to 'fess up to another nugget. Despite paving roads, building clinics, and having MEDCAPS where our medics & Doctors treat the locals, the locals act like idiots in line & our Soldiers risk their lives to provide security for the events, the mosques in our region broadcast kill the infidel sermons after prayer calls.
The emperor wears no clothes when it comes to our civilian and military leadership understanding the islamic jihad we face.

Hugh,

Sun Tzu's famous dictum, "To win without fighting is best."

Dead on!!! That’s exactly what I would do.
Pull out, then let the terrorist blood bath begin Sunni on Shia. Saudi Arabia will enter in proxy to save the Sunni, which will prompt Iran to enter with her puppet state of Syria. The oil coffers of these two terrorist states will be drained along with all the jihadist fighters spilling into the region cutting their numbers down dramaticly, (after all who cares if an Al-Queda homicide bomber hit a Hezzibolla target). And every time it started to settle shake the hive a little. This will leave Hamas and Fatah starved for funds, unless the foolish E.U. bureaucrats steal from their citizen for a Jizya for the Jihadist there.

When Sunni and Shia slaughter each other, they aren’t slaughtering you and me.

The enemy of my enemy isn’t necessarily my friend, but the friend and enabler of my enemy is my enemy.

A very Machiavellian strategy, but as he said.

“Returning to the question of being feared or loved, I come to the conclusion that, men loving according to their own will and fearing according to that of the prince, a wise prince should establish himself on that which is in his own control and not in that of others; he must endeavor only to avoid hatred, as is noted.”

Nicolo Machiavelli (1469-1527):
The Prince, 1513

And frankly with the Jihadist, I’d rather be fear then loved. After all, the only enemy that loves you, is the one that loves to defeat you.

Hey, Allahfanculo, I just want to say viel danke - thanks so much.

God said to Abraham, "Whoever blesses you I shall bless." Thanks again.

Must admit I bought the Neo-Con line in Iraq, which was that the Saddam-oppressed would welcome us with open arms for having thrown off the tyrant. We fought that battle far too carefully, with kid gloves on, and doubtless lost many American lives because of it. In retrospect, we should have come in all guns blazing, ruthlessly pursued until we pulled Saddam out of that hole, put one between his eyes, and pulled out of there, leaving the factions of Muslims to fight it out amongst themselves as they have been doing for the past 1400 years.
We give Islamists WAY too much credit. They are incapable of any form of government except tyranny, because their core cultural and political, as well as religious, institution is Islam. And Islam as we all know, is Islam. If they can't blow us up, they blow each other up. Left to their own devices in an "Islamic Republic" (Orwell laughing in his grave), they will morph into the barbaric 7th Century tribal bloodbath they have been carrying on for all these years. At least we can somewhat contain that.
As it is now, these clever barbarians are moving into our advanced societies and noting things like clean water, paved roads, actual justice, order, prosperity. They decide they like it better here, but they are unable to make the leap that what separates their miserable homelands from HERE is that when we built our civilizations HERE we were not burdened by that stupid, self-flagellating "religion" that they can't quite seem to shake.

Islam is like a virus. It needs a host. It cannot live by its own devices, and so it infects a thriving host and multiplies. Ultimately, if unchecked, it kills the host and then of course collapses upon itself in the time-honored Islamic tradition of tribal bloodshed.
What we need, is a vaccine. It is called a Law, and we who built and cherish our free societies must make this law that bans Islam as the seditious cult that it is. Under that Law, all the "peaceful" Muslims who wish to stay, can stay. Islam cannot stay. It would destroy us.

John Adams,

There are those that say the First Amendment would prohibit this banishment, with the, “shall not prohibit” clause. But because Islam has a small little thing called Sharia Law and has a call to all it’s adherents to impose that law on all governments and people. It can be declared a political party, a political party can be declared illegal when it seeks to over throw the constitution, go ask the Clan, Aryan Nation, or the Branch Davidians.

As Hugh pointed out, bush's confusion is indeed terminal. if you think that he will have the decency of LBJ to retire to his home presumably to contemplate the destruction he had wrought & await the Grim Reaper, think again. After all, being gwb means you're right & your fellow Americans are wrong. He's got his legacy to nuture, & he thinks he's going to do that by establishing the "Freedom Institute" in Dallas, whose goal will be to promote democracy throughout the world. Because, y'know, democratic elections are the answer to these terrorist "evildoers." Why, just look at last year's palestinian elections, or Turkey's elections last month.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2003865029_bush02.html

No doubt the saudis will help fund the institute. After all, they're the bush clan's eternal friends. Their largesse won't end there. As incredible as it seems, in the midst of the iraqi debacle, bush has the nerve to state publicly that after he leaves office, first he'll "give some speeches, just to replenish the ol' coffers." Who in their right mind would pay him the $50-75K per speech his father gets? I'll tell you. the saudis, the kuwaitis, the qataris, etc.

Armalite:
Do your fellow soldiers share your dim view of your mission in afghanistan? What are you hearing about the views of the GIs in iraq? 2 days ago I read an article that described what one squad leader said upon entering one abode during a house-to-house search. In a mocking tone, he shouted, "We're Americans, here to bring freedom & democracy to Iraq," or similar words to that effect.

I'm posting here an exchange on a thread from yesterday, just because there is some really great stuff from a Brit commenting on a Guardian Muslim-apologist columnist:

The Lefty Guardian made a typical PC response to this article but even their readers responded with some of the most virulent comments I've ever seen.

Skim over the article then enjoy the comments.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ajmal_masroor/2007/09/the_times_report_today_focuses.html

Teba:
Thanks for that post on the Guardian story. Really good and funny comments from fed-up Brits against a story that was doubtless intended as another MSM pacification tool. Below I'm appending the comments of one George of the Jungle from that thread. It is really quite precious!!!
______________________
You wrote, "Strange, for to me the Qur'an speaks about every aspect of life, including politics. I also had discussions on topics such as arts and music." This is exactly why Islam is NOT a religion but an ideology. Look below for the definition of ideology. "every aspect of life" is the clue to Islam being an ideology, and a very dangerous ideology.

Ideolody (n) definition:
1. The body of ideas reflecting the social needs and aspirations of an individual, group, class, or culture.
2. A set of doctrines or beliefs that form the basis of a political, economic, or other system.

Ideologies are systems of abstract thought (as opposed to mere ideation) applied to public matters and thus make this concept central to politics. Implicitly every political tendency entails an ideology whether or not it is propounded as an explicit system of thought.

Islam is not a religion but a dangerous ideology akin to National Socialism and Communism.

These ignorant imams that Britian is letting in from India and Pakistan should be deported back to their countries.

If Muslims go to a Western Country by choice, then they should assimilate into that country's culture and society, not try to force their out-moded and dangerous beliefs on the society that they have adopted.

And I mean ridiculous - for example, the religious clerics in Iran have decreed that women are not allowed to go to a soccer stadium to watch games because the naked legs of the young male players may excite the women too much. Please, is this even logical? Where in the Qu'ran does it say that male soccer players legs are too exciting for women? It doesn't, because this is not religion, it is part of a dangerous ideology.

Saudi Arabia bans women from participating in 99% of the running of the country. Saudi Arabia bans women from driving. Saudi Arabia decrees that all women must be fully veiled and covered when in public. Saudi Arabia bans women from going out by themselves - they must always be in twos or threes. Saudi Arabia bans an uncle from sitting alone with his niece in her home. Saudi Arabia bans all other religions from practicing in their country (I hold that the Christian West should do likewise and ban the Muslim religion from their countries). The list goes on and on. Where in the Qu'ran does it say that women are banned from all these things? It doesn't, because these things are based on a primitive tribal ideology from 1428 years ago that has become static. No wonder nothing innovative or original has come out of the Muslim world for the past 1400 years - innovation, free-thinking and curiosity is banned and suppressed by their dim-witted and backward clerics who want absolute male power and dominance.

If Muslims in the western world demand such things as all males to be banned from a basketball game, or a wall to be built in a gym so that they can workout in private, or separate hours for men and women in a public swimming pool, or separate prayer rooms at airports or work places, then I say they are making a laughing stock of the West.

The west should say, "If you want to force your outmoded and psychologically harmful ideology on us, then leave - go back to Saudi Arabia or where ever you came from, so you can be repressed to your heart's content."

It is time that Western Governments stopped pandering to the manic and insane religious practices of this suppressive ideology, and trying to be "oh, so politically correct". It is time for the West to tell all Muslims to assimilate in the country of their choice, or just get out... go back to some backwards Muslim country where they can bow obediently to the male phallus and poke their unwashed arseholes up into the air.

I am just sick of the backwards, arrogant, stupid, and insane demands of this so-called religion. I am also sick of the West for trying not to "insult" by practicing this stupid political correctness. Please, let's call a spade a spade. The Muslim religion is not a religion, it is a political ideology, and psychologically harmful, authoritative, and buried in the distant past. If Muslims living in the civilized world cannot adapt to their chosen country, let them go back to their uncivilized, tribal, primitive, dirty, and phallic-fearing, phallic-centric and phallic-worshipping countries and leave us alone.

johnadams,
you are so right.
any islamic run country is incapable of running itself.
just look at pakistan-bankrupt sh**hole-iran-barking mad mullahs running the place,are now regressing to the 10th century-saudi arabia-take out the expat workers and the whole place comes to a grinding halt.
we need to remove islam from the planet and using our law and civilisation will not do the job.
we need to remove all muslims from the western world and send them to these islamic countries,you can bet your a** they would soon become apostates!
oh,and by the way,there is no such thing as a "peaceful " muslim-thats where the western world is in denial-the koran DEMANDS that islam will take over the world.
good job,eh, no pork,no booze,no music,no theatre,no classics,pray 5 times a day,degrade women,wear a beard and you're highly religious!
when are our leaders going to wake up?

The incessant drumbeat of "bin Laden" and the ubiquitous "Al-Qaeda inspired" terrorism are clearly substitutes for thinking or having to deal with the real motivation of our enemies.

They are our rose-colored glasses, keeping a more
disturbing reality from bothering our "little heads".

Still, there is a large psychological element
to Jihad. The Arab Muslim world is, let's say, intensely subjective--prone to hysteria, irrationality, wild exaggeration--and the other side of the coin, fatalism and resignation when things don't go right. The sense that this is a time of Islamic destiny is a force in the
world, and while Jihad will never go away, part of containing it, part of dampening the fire, is handing it defeats. Demoralizing it. (Being smart too, not getting trapped in situations like Iraq)The sense they are winning victories, that they & Jihad are favored by Allah, insures recruits, metastasizes the disease, and cannot be permitted. Demoralizing the Jihad, in all the ways suggested (confronting the da'wa, immigration, 'jizya' payments, Saudi influence etc etc) also includes eliminating figures like bin Laden whose continued survival can only be seen as a sign of one favored by Allah. In that respect, getting to him is a legitimate part of containment & demoralization.

JohnAdams -- here here! What are you doing in '08?

Frank,

"Hugh-

It is true that Bin Laden is a side-freak show that distracts from the pervasive issue of Jihad. However, at least Bin Laden is honest and is reaching for some self-respect in a culture of deceit. Deceit and dishonesty are so ingrained in Islam that it has to create a culture where people will not really respect themselves. Look at the recommendations of Muhammad Taqi Usmani and one is looking at a very sick culture. It is loathsome.

In the final analysis, from their point of view, many Muslims paranoically see the transport and the communications juggernaut of the past 60 years as if it were an attack upon them. Actually it's a process that is uncovering a culture of deceit. Everything with this culture is a lie. All they have is propaganda and deceit and an aggressiveness that covers, camouflages, compensates for a cultural emptiness. What kind of a culture extols lying?"

Remember Frank, this all goes right back to the time of Muhammed who taught and promoted all the what would be considered sinful and wrong, what is rightly condemmed in the Jewish/Christian faith(s) traditions via the Bible. Muhammed simply was doing what his god was telling him to do.

Also I would like to add that what was said about a certain Muslim empire of the past, the infamous Ottomon Empire in the late 19th century when it was in its twilight of its life, it was called because of its oppression, "the sick man of Europe". This special title I am giving to the whole of Islam today, calling it instead the "sick man of the world". Even the Christian faith is quietly beating it by adding even to this very day new members in all the corners of the world as the Gospel of Jesus goes out.

sheik yer booty, yes, many are catching on. Some are true believers, but that evaporates with experience.
The behavior of the people, civilian and military, is an eye opener. Cruelty to animals is common place. Dogs are unclean beasts according to the death cult and you see dogs forced to fight, dogs being stoned to death, and tortured by the locals.
The Afghan National Army (ANA) is a spoty performer at best. Desertion is the norm & I was on a patrol that went a half kilometer before the ANA decided to go no further. The village ahead had taliban in it. Too dangerous to deal with, you know!
Karazai, the "mayor of Kabul" is a corrupt clown, the Afghans see him as our puppet. He has a dope dealing brother in Jalalabad, any time the Afghan National Police arrest him, the Officer in charge gets fired.
I could go on, but you get the picture.

sheik yer booty, yes, many are catching on. Some are true believers, but that evaporates with experience.
The behavior of the people, civilian and military, is an eye opener. Cruelty to animals is common place. Dogs are unclean beasts according to the death cult and you see dogs forced to fight, dogs being stoned to death, and tortured by the locals.
The Afghan National Army (ANA) is a spoty performer at best. Desertion is the norm & I was on a patrol that went a half kilometer before the ANA decided to go no further. The village ahead had taliban in it. Too dangerous to deal with, you know!
Karazai, the "mayor of Kabul" is a corrupt clown, the Afghans see him as our puppet. He has a dope dealing brother in Jalalabad, any time the Afghan National Police arrest him, the Officer in charge gets fired.
I could go on, but you get the picture.

“For the love of money is the root of all evil.” Timothy, 6:10.

Find Osama and put that uglyass head on a stick for the World to see. I wait daily to hear it is finally true.
Didn't Bush say wherever they are, we will find them? We should be leveling every town suspected of harboring this human pig. Make the locals pay for hiding this disgrace of a human.

The moment his whereabouts ARE known, and mentioned in the clear (news, or internet) he's long gone from there. Even the doc held at GitMo from tora bora days freely admits he's scared of his own shadow, his own people (forget thefact he doesn't give a rats ass about them either, only himself), never stays anywhere more than 45 minutes at a time, and is obviously tired from contantly moving around.
The news & internet are their best sources of intel, and monitored CONSTANTLY.

So chitral's history the minute it's public, as is every other place mentioned in the open.

"he has taunted America for losing the war against him"

Hmmm! Exactly who is in hiding: Osama bin Laden or the USA - the USA or Osama bin Laden - Osama bin Laden or the USA - the USA or Osama bin Laden? What a difficult question to answer, isn't it. Now tell me again who, exactly, has lost this war?

It's beginning to look like a fraud.

Or else he has an accomplice

Well said Allahfanculo! Well said.