Police arrest leaders of protest against Islamization of Europe

Reminds me of communists and what they did to my people to keep "brotherhood and unity" with barbarians...

Strange.....I don't recall any European country cracking down on islamic nutters preaching hatred on our cities streets.

UK readers, can contrast this with how the "Behead anyone who criticises Islam" protestors were treated in London.

How did the world get to this point? People are aloud to loudly say that they want sharia law to replace the government, right out there in broad daylight, on busy streets. Meanwhile...people who protest this are arrested and silenced. Is this what all western countries can expect in the future? Is this what tens of thousands of people fought and died for over the centuries? Censorship?

The reason given for not allowing the protest was that they couldn't guarantee the safety of the protestors. And yet they had 100 police there not to protect but to arrest.

They’ll try to register private weapons before things play out, but it’s too late. There are 270 million in the US alone. Watch for ammunition controls, starting with taxes:

THE AMMUNITION TAX RATE IS:
(1) 50 CENTS PER ROUND OF AMMUNITION FOR AMMUNITION OTHER THAN ANTIPERSONNEL AMMUNITION; AND
(2) $5 PER ROUND OF AMMUNITION FOR ANTIPERSONNEL AMMUNITION.

http://www.maryland-business.net/bullet_tax.html

Gold $712, up $50 in two weeks.

Reloads

It's yet another testament as to how far the Eurocommiecrats will go to protect the new order in Europe. Meanwhile Islamists practice their version of apartheid as they plot the eventual subjugation of Europe. And the goverment and media elites continue their denial and continue to spread the multicultural Kool-Aid.

Of course, anyone voicing opposition to the Islamization of Europe will be demonized as far right extremists while the mainstream extreme far left sell out their countries and culture to the Islamist enemy. I'd like to be optimistic about Europe but unless many more voices join the courageous few who dare to speak out, and soon, the Islamization will reach the point of no return.

And once again, we Americans must realize that the same will happen here too. The same forces at wotk in Europe are also at work here, Europe is just further along.

This is a bare start to a phenomenon which will become quite regular in 'liberal' Europe.

Yeah they are on the right track for defending western culture.

Apparently the Brussels authorities receive 500-600 applications a year to hold marches and demonstrations in that city. In the past five years, they have turned down only five applications. The march against the Islamization of Europe was one of them.

Brussels Mayor Freddy Thielemans is not Muslim, as at least one poster here has asserted--but his Deputy Mayor, Algerian-born Faouza Harighe, is. She is frequently acting Mayor as Theielemans is off gadding about out of town.

Thielemans himself is an atheist--I don't have a problem with that in and of itself. He is very hostile to Christians, though. Upon hearing of the death of Pope John-Paul ii, he offered free champagne to everybody at the diplomatic event he was attending. I didn't agree with the Pope on every point, but this is appalling behavior--especially in an elected official.

The impression I have gotten of his attitude toward Islamification in Europe is two-fold--he looks at Muslims in Europe as a pool of voters to prop up his Socialist Party regime, and a group that must be mollified and catered to in order to avoid outbreaks of uncontrollable violence.

This appeasement is not only craven--it is also unlikely to work in the long-run.

It is clearly within Islamic jurisprudence to engage in offensive military Jihad to convert, subjugate, or kill all non-Muslims. There is a threat from within on three fronts that enable Jihadists in their quest. Native Muslims, leftist government officials, and a popular left leaning media. This point has been illustrated by the recent incident in Brussels where a peaceful SIOE http://siad.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/there-is-a-march-coming-up-a-march-towards-the-capital-of-europe-%e2%80%93-brussels/ protest was broken up and its members assaulted by the police http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2438 . To add insult to injury the BBC has labeled the SIOE, as a right wing organization http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6989581.stm. To what purpose is the (SIOE) Stop Islamisation Of Europe labeled as right wing and therefore a racist organization? All it is doing is fighting for the rights of non-Muslims to live freely in their own countries. It is explained thusly : There is a concept called "Abrogation" in the Qur’an, and that is: The Qur’an was (supposedly) revealed to Muhammad in a sequence of events, the latter verses supercede and nullifies the earlier verses. Out of the whole Qur’an, there are 124 verses that teach some tolerance towards non-Muslims...but here is the striking fact....all of these verses are void, and were abrogated by the last verse (supposedly) revealed upon Muhammad, and that is verse 9:5 listed aboveSuyuti (One of the most respected authorities in Islam) in his book "Istenbat al tanzeel" says: "Every thing in the Qur'an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5."Al-Shawkani in his book "Alsaylu Jarar" (4:518-519) says: "Islam is unanimous about fighting the unbelievers and forcing them to Islam or submitting and paying Jiziah (special tax paid only by Christians or Jews) or being killed. [The verses] about forgiving them are abrogated unanimously by the obligation of fighting in any case." Finally here is what Muhammad the prophet of Islam himself said: Ibn Haban in his Sahih, vol. 14, p. 529, narrates: Muhammad said: "I swear by Him who has my soul in his hands, I was sent to you with nothing but slaughter." This concept in Islam is regarded my most scholars in the Islamic world, as a pretext for global war in the name of Islam. Here was have an organization, that clearly recognized this fact, and is trying to fight it. What help does it get from the press, government, and courts of Europe? In a word …prosecution. It is all too clear now that in order to preserve ourselves we must dissolve the current powers in government, and media. This will happen sooner through the electorate, or eventually by mob rule. As Bush so eloquently puts it. You, in this case government, are either with us or against us.

Alas, this doen't surprise me in the slightest. Those dolts are so scared of the Islamists its pathetic.

This is so depressing to me to see western governments selling their culture out to the muslims like this.

Think I'll go home and load a couple boxes of ammo. That always makes me feel better.

@ pez - I bought my gold on Sept. 1 so I'm obviously thrilled I got in early (relatively speaking). Plus, it was a series of coins that just sold out, so it's now selling at a $20 premium per coin! Only wish I could have bought more...I think we'll need it before this is all over. I highly recommend that anyone here who is interested in the state of our economy should read, among other books, The Coming Economic Collapse, by Stephen Leeb, PhD. It'll make your hair stand on end.

I hate conspiracy theories, but I agree that this will be happening here soon.

There is too much happening here and overseas that are identical, in action, statements, and procedures.

Evil has become good, Patriotism has become evil, Freedom of speech is only free if you say what Democrats want to here, Religions that have made great societies are wrong, Religions that have no societies are right, Womens rights are required only in the west not any other country, Speak of morality and you are a freak, speak of inmorality and you are in the Whitehouse.

It is too organized even in third world countries to assume that there is not a common hand. You can feel it slightly under the radar.

The sheep are being lead to the slaughter. Everyone look straight ahead, do not look to the left or right and no speaking.

If this would have happened to a liberal organization the MSM would be screaming 'Nazi action'. But because this is happening to conservatives the MSM will hype it down.

What will the world look like when the liberals finally get their way? I believe that even liberals will come to a realization that they were fooled.

That is my foolish theory rant of the day.

One of many reasons Europe is usless in the confrontation with Islam.

They hate Bush because he ruffeled up the Natives Feathers. The new Natives that is.

Yeah but I am glad the event happened.

You can be sure it will be written about in the media. And I dont believe the coverage will be all unfavourable. Its people talking, thinking, researching. A lot of thinkiing journalist will be writing.

Just need to make the event bigger in years to come.

Europe, it's time to fight back.

When flamboyant gay men with mountains of carefully coiffed quoifs in boofy platinum blond are thought of as "extreme far right" (I'm thinkin' Geert Wilders here folks...) you know the Eurotrash media is in outer space.

In Europe today (and in some sectors of America too) persons such as Joe Lieberman are considered to be neo-Nazi extreme right wing fascists.

World gone mad.

The western (not Eastern) European political left has for many, many years been hurling the epithet "fascist" against Americans and with little argument from the wider western European populace (look at the many poll statistics as to what Euros generally think of America if you don't believe ME--Europeans believe America to be the biggest threat to world peace and favor Red China over America!).

But Europeans, with the EU Bureaucracy's blessing, are about to experience REAL fascism unseen in generations.

I suspect the western European cheese-eaters will soon rue the day they decided--and acted-- to undermine American power on the global stage.

As for western Europeans fighting back, it isn't for nothing Mark Steyn titled his recent book "AMERICA ALONE." America surely at this point IS alone. Under the EU's thumb, Europe looks like a goner.

I must say, while commendable the protest took place (it's a start), the turnout was very disappointing. Proponents will site may reasons for low participation: rally was banned, potential police intimidation etc; but at the end of the day, if 200 protesters was all the good guys could muster, then essentially the populace is still dormant and Islam will continue to spread unabated. Very troubling...

On the bright side, no other public protest against Islam has been attempted of this magnitude and hopefully it's a start of bigger things to come.

Apparently the Brussels authorities receive 500-600 applications a year to hold marches and demonstrations in that city. In the past five years, they have turned down only five applications. The march against the Islamization of Europe was one of them.

====
And why did they turn down this protest? Because they were afraid they couldn't guarantee public order. Did things get out of hand?

Foehammer, when Europe fights next time, the target will be America.

jsla, don't forget Pyn Fortuyn. Ok, so he didn't have lovely hair, but he was a flamboyment homosexual who was demonized as being on the extreme Right.

He was actually a socialist who saw earlier than most what was happening, protested, and was murdered by some hate filled lunatic on the Left.

If he'd gained power (as was quite possible) how different would Holland have been?

Triumphant-Paladin:

What 'bright side' are you talking about?

The western European corporate establishment has billions and billions of euros invested in the Islamic nations (such as the UAE) and is not about to permit all this profit to be threatened by protesters in European cities (such activities when televised don't play well in the Islamic cernters like Dubai, Abu Dhabi and elsewhere the Euro business community has invested so much capital). That is what the all the fuss in Brussels is really about.

western Europe simply is no longer a bastion of democracy, and democracy's passing in western Europe went out with nary a demonstration from the western Europeans. The scant protests we are now seeing there could be as much an expression of feelings among western Europeans of loss as of anti-islam. I have yet to see any signs that many western Europeans are aware of a significant threat posed by Islam to Europe.

It looks like the few Europeans to protest now quite probably are too late-- the die has already been cast against democracy in Europe. I see no 'bright side' in western Europe (but in eastern Europe MAYBE).

'Only 200 or so [unarmed] protesters showed up Tuesday for a protest lasting only 30 minutes. The demonstrators faced more than 100 police, backed up by water cannons and helicopters, who closed off streets around the EU headquarters."

Kinda overkill, don'tcha think?

WOW

This is scary, from a population of 490,426,060 only 200 or so protesters showed up Tuesday for a protest lasting only 30 minutes.

Yet a few weeks ago several hundred muslims showed up to protest about a few drawings in a Swedish town, that most people had never heard of before

WOW

This is scary, from a population of 490,426,060 only 200 or so protesters showed up Tuesday for a protest lasting only 30 minutes.

Yet a few weeks ago several hundred muslims showed up to protest about a few drawings in a Swedish town, that most people had never heard of before

Yeah CC their should have been a half million protesting , the invaders must be beside themselves with glee with this demonstration of dhimmitude and complacency. Discracefull

This reminds me of "through the looking glass". Everything is topsy turvy and opposite. I know it all boils down to politics, and short sightedness but it makes me want to spit.

Let me get it straight. Islamic hate mongers are allowed to protest, whenever, where ever they want to. They can hold signs up saying "London is the next 9/11" etc. They can hold a "parade" (however pathetic) on the streets of NYC 2 days before the anniversary of 9/11. On and on ad nauseum. WE cannot hold a peaceful march without being arrested.

HUH???? the world has gone crazy....

If the protesters are trying to prevent the triumpf of Islam in Europe, I have news for them, Islam is already triumphant. The fear factor that Muslims have introduced into Europe has already paralyzed European governments, and made them willing to violate the rights of non-Muslims in their countries just to farstall a violent reaction from the Muslim population. They know that they have every reason to be fearful, and yet still continue to mouth the fiction of Islam as a peaceful religion. They are terrified to say anything else.

Reminds me of the Tarantulas of the American Southwest that are used by Wasps to lay and incubate their eggs. When approached by the Wasp, the Tarantula, who could easily kill the Wasp, is so terrified, that it allows the Wasp to mount its back and proceed to sting it to death. The Wasp than deposits its eggs in the carcus, where they incubate, hatch, and eat their way out.

Europe, like the Tarantula, is at that point where it can still fight back, but most likely won't. And the Islamic Wasp knows it won't. The only thing left if the mounting and deadly sting.

lol @ topic...how sad, but true (Kudos, Marisol)

One thing learned about the islamofascist, islamicommie unholy alliance...everyone not of them is "far-right", spewed ad hominem, ad nauseum.
Next, they'll start back in on their older variant of "this...vast...right...wing...conspiracy!"
...blah...blah...blah...
*yawn*

Just goes to show some feel they can never beat a dead horse enough times.
Welcome to the wonderful world of political correctness.

LOL

rational,

EXCELLENT analogy!

Meanwhile, Hillary is mentioning putting in legislation against "hate crimes" with an eye towards certain beleagured minorities, including Moslems.

2:216 * 4:74 * 9:111 * 8:12 * 4:96 * 56:22 * 38:51 * 55:56 * 55:76 * 56:22 * 8:74 * 9:2 *

Being a Yale Law grad, she of course does not possess the requisite capacity for common sense to be able to read the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and understand the Equal Protection clause therein.

I would like to know what the average British Joe or German Franz thinks of this appalling a$$-pounding the Euro governments are taking from the Islamonazis. Are they ignorant? Don't care? Speaking out? Writing their representatives? Angry?
And it is not as though I don't think the same thing could not happen in America--clearly it can. I just would like to think that there is a silent majority in these once-proud countries that will, when push comes to shove, fight for their homeland and freedom.
Gives one a new respect for our 2nd Amendment, does it not?

Slightly off topic....I'm speechless
_______________

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=cp_fc6h5g7n673&show_article=1
______________

Disturbed anti-war protester can't find soldier, kills civilian with axe instead

Sep 11 12:52 PM US/Eastern
TOBY STERLING

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A U.S. citizen has confessed to using an axe to kill a Dutch student after failing to find a soldier to attack, his lawyer said Tuesday.
The suspect, Carlos Hartmann, 41, of Tecumseh, Mich., has confessed to the Sept. 8 killing on a train platform in the southern city of Roosendaal, defence lawyer Peter Gremmen said.

Gremmen said Hartmann wanted to punish the Netherlands for its support of the war in Iraq.

Hartmann appeared before a judge Tuesday and was ordered held for another two weeks for investigation.

"He hates soldiers, and says that the army kills people, so it would be legitimate if he were also to kill someone . . . from the American military - or from its NATO allies," Gremmen said in a telephone interview.

When he failed to find a soldier at the Roosendaal train station, "he got such a crazy, disturbed idea that he killed a civilian," Gremmen said.

Hartmann did not attempt to escape and was arrested shortly after the killing.

Dutch prosecutors confirmed that the suspect had confessed but did not identify him or his victim, in keeping with Dutch practice.

Under the Dutch legal system, Hartmann was not required to enter a plea Tuesday.

Prosecution spokeswoman Martine Pilaar said her office was taken aback by the defence lawyer's willingness to disclose details of his case.

But Gremmen said he was only confirming details published by the local newspaper BN/De Stem. The paper's source was not named, and police declined to comment.

"I was also surprised when I saw the paper; I thought, this must be coming from the investigation," the lawyer said.

Gremmen said Hartmann has lived in the Netherlands since 2002, supporting himself with English editing work for a Japanese company, which he could do by computer, and that he had no fixed address.

He said Hartmann had consented to undergo psychological testing, and was now "terribly sorry for his deed."

The victim, identified as Thijs Geers, was waiting for a train and had no connection with the suspect or the military. Online condolence registers in the Netherlands were flooded with messages of sympathy for him and his family.

BN/De Stem quoted a witness who asked to remain anonymous as describing Hartmann as striking the victim in the back of the head with the axe. It also quoted an unidentified family member from the United States as saying Hartmann has suffered from emotional problems since his early 20s.

"It's a sad story," Gremmen said. "But I'm glad he's admitted what he's done and that he's sorry for it."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=cp_fc6h5g7n673&show_article=1

The Canadian Press, 2007

This is an E-mail I constructed to help inform my friends and family. Maybe someone more eloquent than myself could come up with somethig that could be used mass e-mailed if you will, so that the truth can be seen by all.

Please pass this on. There was a peaceful demonstration in Brussels today marking 9/11. The demonstrators were attacked by the police. This was done by a government with politically correct motives. It is clear whom the governments of Europe are behind in this case. It is of great importance that people understand the gravity of the situation not only here in America, but especially in Europe. This is a letter, which I posted online about this case.


It is clearly within Islamic jurisprudence to engage in offensive military Jihad to convert, subjugate, or kill all non-Muslims. There is a threat from within on three fronts that enable Jihadists in their quest. Native Muslims, leftist government officials, and a popular left leaning media. This point has been illustrated by the recent incident in Brussels where a peaceful SIOE http://siad.wordpress.com/2007/08/30/there-is-a-march-coming-up-a-march-towards-the-capital-of-europe-%e2%80%93-brussels/ protest was broken up and its members assaulted by the police http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2438 . To add insult to injury the BBC has labeled the SIOE, as a right wing organization http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6989581.stm. To what purpose is the (SIOE) Stop Islamisation Of Europe labeled as right wing and therefore a racist organization? All it is doing is fighting for the rights of non-Muslims to live freely in their own countries. It is explained thusly : There is a concept called "Abrogation" in the Qur’an, and that is: The Qur’an was (supposedly) revealed to Muhammad in a sequence of events, the latter verses supercede and nullifies the earlier verses. Out of the whole Qur’an, there are 124 verses that teach som e tolerance towards non-Muslims...but here is the striking fact....all of these verses are void, and were abrogated by the last verse (supposedly) revealed upon Muhammad, and that is verse 9:5 "Fight and slay the pagans [Christians] wherever ye find them and seize them, confine them, and lie in wait for them in every place of ambush" (Surah 9:5). Suyuti (One of the most respected authorities in Islam) in his book "Istenbat al tanzeel" says: "Every thing in the Qur'an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5."Al-Shawkani in his book "Alsaylu Jarar" (4:518-519) says: "Islam is unanimous about fighting the unbelievers and forcing them to Islam or submitting and paying Jiziah (special tax paid only by Christians or Jews) or being killed. [The verses] about forgiving them are abrogated unanimously by the obligation of fighting in any case." Finally here is what Muhammad the prophet of Islam himself said: Ibn Haban in his Sahih, vol. 14, p. 529, narrates: Muhammad said: "I swear by Him who has my soul in his hands, I was sent to you with nothing but slaughter." This concept in Islam is regarded my most scholars in the Islamic world, as a pretext for global war in the name of Islam. Here we have an organization, that clearly recognizes this fact, and is trying to fight it. What help does it get from the press, government, and courts of Europe? In a word …prosecution. It is all too clear now that in order to preserve ourselves we must dissolve the current powers in government, and media. This will happen sooner through the electorate, or eventually by mob rule. As Bush so eloquently puts it. You, in this case government, are either with us or against us. Simple reasearch on the readers part will comfirm what Islam means for you in the west if we take as example how minorities of the Islamic world a re treated. Trust me the truth is out there google Coptic Christians+ Egypt and explore a whole new world of repression, hate, and desrimination that will blow your mind. This is what Europeans will be giving to thier children if you follow current demographic modles.

JohnAdams--"there is a silent majority in these once-proud countries that will, when push comes to shove, fight for their homeland and freedom."

Yes. Unfortunately, they're all in their sixties, and they're facing jihadists in their teens and twenties. I don't give them very good odds. :(

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1355/1362271216_071ee03728.jpg?v=0

This picture says it all really.
Just normal concerned citizens nothing about the so called "far right".
Although a few skinheads were present and dramatically arrested and glady filmed and photographed by the media the reality was that the vast majority were everyday normal European citizens who were denied there right to a peaceful demonstration.
Thats the real fascism of the socialist/dhimmi left in Europe.

Really, I'm less concerned about Islam than I am about the political left (which seems to cover basically the entire political spectrum here in Europe...)

The mayor of Bruxelles banned this demonstration - the islamists didn't!

JohnAdams:
I would like to know what the average British Joe or German Franz thinks of this appalling a$$-pounding the Euro governments are taking from the Islamonazis.

Most are not informed but are uneasy.
They know something is wrong with Islam but few have figured out what.

Are they ignorant?

Yup. 99.9%

Don't care?

They probably do care but the problem is although Europe has democracies, it is in name only. For example, much of the EU project proceeds without democratic mandate. Governments by consensus surrender national powers to the EU without any say so by the people. The mandarins have contempt for the people. We have seen for nearly 20 years, wave-after-wave of unaccountable EU legalisation, undermining of national sovreignity. Referendums are despised just in case the people "vote wrong". That is what France and Holland did. People are resigned.
The people exist just to rubber stamp the EU vision. I would like to see the whole EU project dismantled.

So it is not just Islam.
It is everything else as well.
Democracy is healthy in America (even if you get leaders who are not wise). In Europe it is very unhealthy. Voters are disenchanted because they dont believe their vote counts. Hence the rise of protest movements as they believe if there is enough noise, eventually a politican will consider a change to the status quo

Speaking out? Writing their representatives? Angry?

All of those. And I must do more.

I have an idea forming in my brain. (in a village idiot voice)

I really need to reference the Koranic text on this.

But.....

as these religious texts are written so metaphorically, is it possible that rather than saying "the people that have strayed from the path" (paraphrased) should be subjugated as a command...

Could it be "the people that stray from the path" can be subjugated as a strategy?

Not sure that it makes any difference, but it's not really the same thing. The atheist would say it's all hogwash. But a faithful person could consider it to be a test of sorts. Let's say it IS a battle of good and evil that's been going on since the beginning of time. Today people are so willing to step away from God to appease other men. Examples being; removing prayer from schools, or "under God", "in God we trust" or Christian material from prisons, purely to superordinate man made laws and secular values. As man made laws and policies become viewed as superior to Gods laws we have made a choice. And God, being a gentlemen, will honor your decision which opens the door to Satan.

Sounds like science fiction but the thought just flew by.

Answered my own question from above.
Here is one website/blog with links to countless others showing many increasingly irate and disgusted Euros waking up to the problem in their midst. Unfortunately they are looking at civil war in their near future.
http://www.actioninengland.gb.com/

Well Rational,Times have changed. Islam speaks softly and carries a big stick , the terrorism stick.

Here's Mr Thielemans email address. Let him know how you feel.

Kabinet.Bgm.Thielemans@brucity.be

At least he'll have an idea how we feel. Maybe send a link to the blog too, just so he has some light reading.

The Brussels city council is majority-Muslim?

From the Gates of Vienna:

Here’s a list of the ruling Socialist Party (PS) members of the Brussels city council headed by Mayor Freddy Thielemans.

Of the eighteen PS members, no fewer than ten have obvious Muslim names. It’s possible others may be ‘reverts’.

Thielemans is just a buffoonish front man. Muslims now control the key city at the heart of the European Union.

1. Fatima Abid
2. Mustafa Amrani
3. Samira Attalbi
4. Mohammed Boukantar
5. Philippe Close
6. Jean Baptiste de Crée
7. Ahmed el Ktibi
8. Julie Fiszman
9. Faouzia Hariche
10. Karine Lalieux
11. Marie-Paule Mathias
12. Yvan Mayeur
13. Mounia Mejbar
14. Mohamed Ouria Ghli
15. Mahfoudh Romdhani
16. Sevket Temiz
17. Freddy Thielemans
18. Christian Van Der Linden

Welcome to the wonderful world of "tolerance",
the result of the wonderful world of "multicult-ism",
in turn the result of the wonderful world of political correctness...and the brownshirts are in power.

Ya get what ya tolerate.

Do you want to demonstrate in Brussels because you think 9/11 was an inside job of the evil nazi US government? No problem, go ahead. But don't dare to commemorate the victims of 9/11 because then you get this:

http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/2007/09/911-commemoration.html

(Please come and look here to the picture and movies of the police brutality and lack of freedom of speech in Europe or should I say Eurabia?).

Is it true that a majority-Muslim city council in Brussels is beginning the end of the right of people peaceably to assemble and petition for a redress of grievances?

Is this just another of many beginnings of the end of the Western approach to human rights in Europe?

The demonstration was initially planned by Stop Islamization of Europe, a loose alliance with roots in Germany, Britain and Denmark, which had predicted that 20,000 people would come to Brussels from all over Europe.

Brussels Mayor Freddy Thielemans banned the protest last month, calling SIOE an inflammatory group and its proposed demonstration a threat to public order. An appeals court upheld the ban Aug. 29.

Only 200 or so protesters showed up Tuesday for a protest lasting only 30 minutes.

The demonstrators faced more than 100 police, backed up by water cannons and helicopters, who closed off streets around the EU headquarters.

Freddy will no doubt do better under shariah; and you wonder why and how islam will prevail over the West?

They don't WMD -- they HAVE Mayors like Freddy and the rest of you by the ...!

Press release - 590(2007)

Europe is threatened by bigots - not by Islam

Statement by Terry Davis, Secretary General of the Council of Europe, on the march “Against the Islamisation of Europe” today in Brussels

Strasbourg, 11.09.2007 - European values are under threat, say the organisers of a protest march under the banner “Against the Islamisation of Europe” which was due to place today in Brussels in spite of the ban by the city Mayor. The fact is that Europe and its values are indeed under threat, but the danger is not coming from Islam. Our common European values are undermined by bigots and radicals, both islamists and islamophobes, who exploit fears and prejudice for their own political objectives.

The self-proclaimed defenders of European values say that the Mayor has violated their rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. The freedom of assembly and the freedom of expression are indeed essential preconditions for democracy, but they should not be regarded as a licence to offend. I will not enter into the discussion about whether the march should have been allowed or not, but I note that the protesters’ reading of the Convention is selective to say the least. It is very important to remember that the freedom of assembly and expression can be restricted to protect the rights and freedoms of others, including the freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This applies to everyone in Europe including the millions of Europeans of Islamic faith, who were the main target of today’s shameful display of bigotry and intolerance.

https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?Ref=PR590(2007)&Language=lanEnglish&Ver=original&Site=DC&BackColorInternet=F5CA75&BackColorIntranet=F5CA75&BackColorLogged=A9BACE

God have mercy on us.

I think that 200 demonstrators is a pretty good start.

This must be held an as annual event, and hopefully they will get more than 200 people next time.

"It is very important to remember that the freedom of assembly and expression can be restricted to protect the rights and freedoms of others, including the freedom of thought, conscience and religion."

Frankish Infidel -- Thanks for posting that statement by Terry Davis, Secretary General of the Council of Europe.

This is terrible.

no uprising. no understanding. the encroachment of islam will continue, with politicians pandering to the muslims, and non-muslims becoming demoralized and seeking a private life that is as unaffected by the disaster as possible.

"The freedom of assembly and the freedom of expression are indeed essential preconditions for democracy,but they should not be regarded as a license to offend."

-Terry Davis,Secretary General of the Council of Europe,from FrankishInfidel link above

Oh....Yea .. So a PTA meeting of irate parents which might manage to offend someone,should even be off limits according to such logic. Or a protest against Michael Vick. Or a right to life protest. Even an abortion rights protest. Or residents protesting against a new Chem plant in their backyards. All would be rendered invalid by such an enlightened pronouncement,except or course, you know who. Such statements are not as Rod Serlingish as they sound,it's just a case of:brainwashed or bought-off? Simple as that,maybe somebody could cash in on the reality genre with that one......call it: "Diagnose the Dhimmi."

which part of "illegal protest" do you'll folks not understand? No one is above the law, not the jihadists , nor the right wingers.
The report clearly states the mayor banned it as a threat to law and order a month back and it was upheld in an appeals court. But i guess the supremely intelligent folks on this forum feel they know more about the situation than the mayor and courts of brussel.

Aller a l'enfer, Thielemans. (Go to hell). With the rest of the Mohammedans.

lmao @ "illegal protest".
Well, that settles the issue, doesn't it.
It's perfectly ok for mOslems to riot, murder, burn & pillage, yetcall it a "protest",
just not for NON-mOslems to simply protest, period .
Well, it doesn't get any more clear-cut than that!
taqqiyah & dhimmitude at it's finest!
lol

http://www.vlaamsbelang.be/0/3682

click on the TV

this is direct but it may not work long-

http://www.vlaamsbelang.be/files/islammanifestatie.wmv

The police arresting the demonstrators that they couldn't protect.

To our American friends ; please do not think that the ordinary people of Europe dislike President Bush or the American people . Certain sections of the French , Belgians and Germans are anti-American and anti-British, but the root cause is jealousy . They all had colonies and empires but lost them , so they are bitter that their power has faded .
America is a great power and Britain gave away her Empire but gained a Commonwealth , this is the reason for some of Europe's anti-American and anti-British feeling .
A lot of the smaller , more eastern European countries are very much your allies and friends .
God Bless America .

Thank God for the First Amendment. Europe may be doomed without it and because of the plentiful numbers of ignoramuses like Terry Davis, who label as bigots those concerned to resist Muslim plans for Islamic law in Europe.

Red Ken Livingston, the commie mayor of Londonistan, Freddy Thielemans, the commie mayor of Brussels, Jack (the burka) Straw, George (georgeous) Galloway, -to name just a few- are all whores for the caliphate and fully in cahoots with the Muhammedans.

While the indigenous Europeans vote with their feet and leave by the thousands each month, these commie/muslim whores are systematically replenishing/replacing their voter-base with a Muhammedan proletariat.

Treason of course. Unspeakable madness. This has been going on for a long time. It cannot be reversed by being nice and politically correct.

Civil war is just around the corner folks, its only a matter of time.

cerebate, you profess loyalty to the law, and that's good, but how would you feel about living under Islamic law?

Europe, like the Tarantula, is at that point where it can still fight back, but most likely won't. And the Islamic Wasp knows it won't. The only thing left if the mounting and deadly sting. Posted by rational

This is tragically beautiful and poetic, rational, but also tragically true for Europe. They are sliding back into serfdom and slavery and not care, so sad. It seems they have not learned from their tragic history of wars, Communism, Nazism, and religious persecutions of the past, so now must repeat the lesson all over again. The Islamists will teach them, the hard way. This pathetic little demonstration against Islamification of Europe was treated with injustice by their bureaucratic small minded politicians, using excessive force with police and water canons.

They are so frightened of another war they are sure to precipitate one, this one worse than all the others. Europeans will not return to slavery kindly, and in the end it will be their children and grandchildren that will demand blood. That too will be poetically tragic, but that is what shortsightedness in the present will condemn to a future riddles with burkas and sharia, which is sure to bring about oppression, poverty and war. This is the gift of Muhammud's Allah in all islamic states. Injustice, human suffering, and slavery is their evil lot, while pulling the yoke of Shaitan's Allah.

I was there today, in Brussels, on Place du Luxembourg, and this was quite a depressing experience indeed.

Report of what I witnessed can be found on my blog (both in French and English): http://tinylink.com/?zNny8MBLfS

(I could copy and paste my text here, but it is quite long for a "comment"!)

Note: The IHT speaks of a 100 cops, but some of the (French speaking) Belgian TV news reported than about a 1000 men were mobilized. I don't know which number is true, but from what I've seen only on Place du Luxembourg and Luxemburg station, I'm pretty sure there were more than a hundred!!!

"No one is above the law,not the jihadist's ,nor the right wingers."
-cerebate

How's the gourmet in that cave you've been living it? European Governments are bending over backwards to establish and foster a separate code of conduct toward Muslim criminal behavior. Whether it's "no go zones" in Paris or turning a disinterested eye from the rape epidemic in Sweden. This ongoing dualistic justice system is just one of the myriad of reasons why this "illegal"(gee,wonder why that was again when Muslims can march and call for infidel death to no end?)protest and others like it take place. It's the attitudes and atmospherics of this belief system and it's encroachment into western societies, which should be of the greatest concern to those who wish to bequest a world free of this crap to their children. I pray you would be such a person,but an unwarranted backhanded slap toward the variety of posters here does not represent you well. Or maybe it just might....

Sebastien and other posters here who went to Brussels - we eagerly await your first-hand accounts. (I was thinking of you, and praying most fervently).

Time to test this one.

Besides 9/11 there are many other suitable anniversaries that could serve as an occasion for dignified, intelligent and creative protest and teach-ins.

Can not some non-dhimmi Spaniards, and their supporters in other parts of the world, not organise something suitable on the anniversary of the Madrid train bombing?

Can not non-dhimmi Londoners start organising something BIG - and BEAUTIFUL - now, to come to fruition on the anniversary of the London underground & bus bombings, in July next year? Maybe Bishop Sookhdeo and those clergy he knows who are 'clued up', could organise a Requiem Mass for the victims, at one of London's many historically significant and beautiful churches; in conjunction with a series of no-holds-barred Information Sessions on Islam, open to the general public.

Canadians might care to demonstrate - and to celebrate Infidel Government - on the anniversary of the day on which their police foiled a Muslim plot to attack the Canadian parliament and behead the PM. Quebecois, Inuit, Ojibwe and other First Nations - remember, YOUR political systems, laws and traditions, your music, stories, dances and songs, are just a much of a kafir abomination, in the eyes of Islam, as those of the Canuck.

As for us 'down under': sheikyermami, gramfan, if something suitable - We Will Not Submit; No to Sharia; No to the Jizya; No Jihad Here!; Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech; NO to Muslim Hounding of 'Apostates' and 'Blasphemers' - was to be organised for every capital city in Australia on the anniversary of the Bali bombing, I would most certainly attend the one nearest to my home.

Other possible dates - the anniversary of the Fall of Constantinople; the anniversary of the final victory in the Spanish Reconquista; the anniversary of the lifting of the siege of Malta in 1565, and of the victory at Lepanto in 1571

On All Saints Day, let's honour the Saints and Martyrs who have suffered and died at the hands of Islam - e.g. Ramon Lull, Charles de Foucauld, and thousands of unknown ex-Muslims who converted to Christianity and were promptly murdered by Muslims.

On All Souls Day, let us remember ALL the victims of Jihad, not just the Christians but the Jews, African animists, Buddhists, Sikhs, Hindus, Zoroastrians, everyone, all 'the tears of jihad'.

LOL

I completely agree with gymgal on your post rational, but if I may be so bold as to add one or two salient points which might serve to enhance your near perfect analogy.

From a strictly entomological perspective of course, Pepsis formosa and the lesser Pepsis thisbe (Tarantula Hawk) doesn't actually kill the spider outright. Not immediately or directly at least. Its' sting merely paralyzes the tarantula indefinitely, leaving it incapacitated and without the physical resources necessary to protect itself from the impending parasitic atrocity to which it will soon be subjected. It begins with Pepsis laying a single egg on the host spider. This emerging larva subsequently treats its' unwitting new host as a living nursery of sorts. Feeding slowly at first on non-vital external tissue, keeping the spider alive as long as possible while the grub - so to speak - grows in size and strength. When it reaches critical mass and is no longer able to sustain itself on a meagre diet of non-vital tissue, it suddenly moves on to the thorax. Tearing a lethal hole at the heart of the spider where it enters and then quickly, violently, and ravenously digests what remains.

In short, it's the offspring which ultimately kills the spider, by consuming it from within.

Coincidentally Tarantula Hawks are also extremely territorial, generally prefer to attack their victims within their own burrows, and the males of the species display a distinct preference for mating with newly emerged virgin females.

Remind you of anyone in particular? M.

Ferdy - I didn't see your link and duplicated your post. Good photos.

pistache -- I went to your site and scrolled down to the English version of your report on the demo. Thanks, it was very interesting.

The protestors need to watch a few real demonstrations to learn their tricks. Like making very large easy to read signs. In more than one language. Those small papers that they held couldn't be read. And the one large sign was so light and written in small letters that even behind the TV reporter it couldn't be seen to be read.

The Pampered Generation does not want to be bothered by protests, debate or illustrations of how their freedom is being chiseled from them day by day. Their Vanity Fair cannot be interrupted by barbaric, religious tyrants seeking to implement a system that will totally capsize the ideals that their ancestors so bravely fought and died for.The Coward Generation has more concern with new cars, the latest cell phones, shoes, hairdos, massive mini palaces that they cannot afford so when the bullies come to subjugate them they will have no clue, but will lie down with their tails beneath their legs in surrender.

Hopefully, some of the young, reading in the light of their imprisonment, will come upon sites such as this one and will remember the gun shots from those who were labelled "Right Wing" or criminal as they sought to awake their comrades and preserve their precious freedom. The fury of these youth will be acting out of anger, unfortunately, and not intellectual inspiration because the spineless ruling politocos and the religiously lame denied them the pulpit of expression and an unrestricted path to the truth.

traeh
I do not wish to be under any religious law including (and not limited to Islam). My turn
"How do you feel about people who violate the law? Does the answer depend on whether you agree with their cause?"

G.C Scott
"How's the gourmet in that cave you've been living it"
Your confusing me with osama.
Let me say I've seen first hand a radical cleric in UK , preaching hatred , violence and murder on BBC television, and I wonder what the heck is wrong with these people, why dont they ban him or put him in jail.

So if you'll are trying to say , ban people or imprison people who spread hatred, go ahead Im right with you.
If on the other hand you'll are trying to say , we know better than the elected law, even if the protest was banned, these guys should go ahead and they should've have been allowed to do so because we agree with their views, then the "unwarranted backhanded slap" was well deserved.
which is it?

They'd be afraid to ban a Muslim demonstration, as opposed to harmless Westerners.
It's a lot safer to be multi-culti than to take a stand.

no uprising. no understanding. the encroachment of islam will continue, with politicians pandering to the muslims, and non-muslims becoming demoralized and seeking a private life that is as unaffected by the disaster as possible.

Posted by: StillBreathing

Unfortunately, this is the pathetic truth, many corpses will be needed as evidence that one cannot ultimately be unaffected by Islamic supremacism.

These are the very same Eurolefties who like to bash Israel for use of "excessive force" in defending the lives of its citizens against the murderous Islamic terrorists. These Eurolefties have no qualms about using excessive force against their own countrymen excercising their right of free speech. HYPOCRITES!

Well what if the law supports the implement of Sharia law tomorrow? The "law" is subject to revision via the will of the people. It's not a question of "agreeing with views" or being fashionable,but a question of survival. Should the will of those who see their cultures being replaced continue to be neglected,civil chaos shall ensue. That's just plain causality,action/reaction.

As for that backhanded slap comment you know what I refer to ,but to spell it out:

"But I guess the supremely intelligent folks on this forum feel they know more about the situation than the mayor and courts of brussel."

Like I said,completely unwarranted.

Oh,and regarding that radical cleric you saw on TV, refer back to my last post if you really can't figure out why they "don't ban him or put him in jail?"

???? Cerebate?

So, you are saying, that if the law says this, then the law because its elected should be obeyed?

So if the law says, sell your daughter at six, are you going to Do it?

Jesus, no Wonder fascism takes off like it does...I strongly suggest you read Paine,

because if history went by that then we'd all be under Hitler, or under monarchy, freedom wasn't 'given' to law obeyers,

it was fought for

by

REVOLUTIONARIES.

and thats what Europe needs, some FREEDOM REVOLUTIONARIES...

thats right, FREEDOM FIGHTERS [but see I'm one of those from the far left--not the 'Sick left we see today however, not sure What the hell is wrong with the left today, its not the left I learned and read about but'

that aside...200 is a start,

the revolution in Russia started with less than 200, in the beginning,

Brussels is not a huge place, and 200 is better than 10. But take some pointers from use to be leftist protester, [I use to go to protests all the time], use Every chance to protest, not just one protest. The rape cases in Sweden, use them, sometimes you have to get down right nasty to get people's attention,

next time there is rape case in Sweden [Muslim related], if you live in Sweden, then use the 'reverse psyche', give them what they want...when the women complain, tell them to shut the hell up, they wanted it, so deal with it,

seriously I say this because trying to convince people of what will come often doesn't work so sometimes you have to use a case to throw it back at them,

it pisses people off but you know sometimes it takes getting pissed off to wake the hell up. Sometimes it takes such radical and offensive action to slap people out of their stupor, as a feminist I've often used this strategy and let me tell you,

it works. You know it works because the post colonial jerks and Muslim apologists are the first to come up with their so called its not Islam but culture defense kaka,

you know thats whats needed too, taking Sweden for example because Sweden is the one country that socialists use as a model example of why socialism is utopia--its not good enough to say rapes, rise in rapes,

give cases with names [of perps] and list them, big on posters, online, it would take some research [through archives and old papers] but thats what it might take,

and then, the next court case [example] PROTEST, PROTEST WITH POSTERS THAT SAY, 'WHY PROSECUTE, THIS IS WHAT YOU WANTED, THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE IN BED WITH, THIS IS WHAT GOV OFFICIAL SO AND SO SAYS IS TOLERABLE',

is it right to the victim, NO, and that aspect of it yes, does Suck,

but you know, if you are going to fight for freedom then damnit,

people are going to have to get down and dirty...there is no fair fighting with these Islamists,

as far as obeying law, any law that says I have to be compliant with Islam or Islamists apologists,

well, guess I still got that leftist in me, that anarchist anti-capitalist and to laws I say,

TO HELL WITH YOU.

I wish I could have been in Brussels today,

I WOULD HAVE BEEN PROUD TO BE ARRESTED AND I WOULD HAVE BEEN SMILING ALL THE WAY WITH MY LARGE PRO-WOMAN'S RIGHTS POSTER AND ANTI-ISLAM POSTER, to all 200 OF YOU,

WAY TO GO, WAY TO GO, WAY TO GO....FREEDOM FIGHTERS, ANTI-ISLAM INTIFADA,

a BIG OLE FREEDOM SMILE.

we need brave fighters in this war and IT IS A WAR,

and its Only just begun.

Tasha

"Well what if the law supports the implement of Sharia law tomorrow"
Hypothetical, Strawman argument. Brussels Belgium is a non sharia law and these people were in violation of it.
Oh i know what the backhanded comment was. I say well deserved, because the armchair critics of this forum feel they know more than the people responsible for the law and order is belgium.

"Oh,and regarding that radical cleric you saw on TV, refer back to my last post "
Incidentally i left out that, after two three such incidents he was arrested. Now what do you say?

The video shows it all. Disgusting. People trying to exercise their right to free speech being mauled by cops in the home of EU. It may actually be good in the end, because you could not better illustrate the sickness that has overcome European governments. Hopefully, the "people" will get it.

Here in America, we all have an opportunity to get out and protest and have our voices heard this October. Coming to a college campus near you:

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamo-fascism/49/a-students-guide-to-hosting-islamo-fascism-awareness-week/

Ironically, conservatives and patriots are not quite used to the idea of a protest. But now we are seeing that the tide has turned in the direction of the fascists in Europe, and is marching here. We need to get out, support one another, and establish a movement. The next one will be bigger, and the next bigger still. This is just the beginning, and it is time to get off the computer and get on the street.

It makes me sick to see some of these idiotic anti-Christian posts on 9-11. For all of you religion haters, and moral relativists, there are other sites for you..

Why do you people think that Paris burned >30 days last year? That's right, burning was preferable to what could have been happening. The muslims have trained their hosts well. Perpetually outraged and offended, predictably violent.

The Brussels police would never cuff a muslim or wrestle him to the ground...their city would burn to the ground. They did what they did to those protesters today because they COULD, and they did it with impunity.

Traeh said
"Is it true that a majority-Muslim city council in Brussels is beginning the end of the right of people peaceably to assemble and petition for a redress of grievances?
Is this just another of many beginnings of the end of the Western approach to human rights in Europe?"
- - - - -

Under the EU there are 4 freedoms, but I'm not sure freedom of speech, freedom of the press, or freedom to assemble are among them...

Article 4 of the Constitutional Treaty of the EU guarantees "the free movement of persons, services, goods and capital" between the Member States of the EU.

see
http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/freetravel/fsj_freetravel_intro_en.htm

Note that
"The right to free movement means that every EU citizen is entitled to travel freely around the Member States of the European Union, and settle anywhere within its territory. No special formalities are required to enter an EU country. This fundamental right extends to members of the EU citizen's family, and applies regardless of their situation or the reason for travel or residence." Is that why Islamicists can infest any country?

After further research, I found a reference to "freedom of assembly and association" at the following link:

see
http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33501.htm
where it talks (Chapter II) about
"...freedom of thought, conscience and religion, freedom of expression and information, freedom of assembly and association, freedom of the arts and sciences..." However, while these freedoms are mentioned in the document, I'm not seeing much of them IN PRACTICE in the EU. Freedom of speech is tempered by freedom from hate speech (aka criticism or mockery). Seems that the "freedom from being made uncomfortable by another's speech, writing or actions" trumps everybody else's rights to think, speak, publish, and assemble.

the british national party are brothers with the Vlaams Belang party. thank god jihad watch has finally seen the light!!!!!

the right wing parties of europe will be the ones to save us.

thank god they were today on the front lines whilst sadly many of you put us down and slandered the right wing parties of europe.

the BNP, Vlaams Belang and Le Pen's nationalists are the only one's brave enough to make a stand.

support them!!! stand with us!!!

This problem in Europe is way worse than I thought because the patriotic Brits, Germans, French etc. not only have their own dhimmi politicans to deal with, they also have the whole EU legal web to deconstruct. The jackboot Mohammedan thugs will use or disregard those laws with impunity as they see fit, and the only force that will stop them will be the fist and the gun. God bless you all. We may as well start calling it World War III right now--and once again, it starts in Europe.

Kabinet.Bgm.Thielemans@brucity.be

email the mayor of brussels, tell him what you think of him and his storm troopers.

thank god jihad watch has finally seen the light!!!!! - leonthepigfarmer

Nothing has changed. Jihad Watch does not support the BNP. Or any party. We support the right of peaceful assembly and free speech, especially where it is challenged by jihadists, their supporters, sympathizers, and passive enablers.

JohnAdams

email that mayor, i just did, told him he will get criminal charges brought against him once the right wing governments take back europe.

ooogle "Terry Davis, The Evil and Stupid Secretary General of the Council of Europe" for the statement.

"europe: your 9/11 is coming"
Is allowed

"Stop the Sharia law"
is not allowed.

Am I missing something, or is this just plain double-standard?

Leon:
I will email that criminal mayor and Brussels newspapers. Gotta believe you can find like-thinkers at some of those English football matches?

Cancer Man:
"Double-standard" is far too pleasant. Cowardice and Dereliction of Duty is more like it.

"So if youll are trying to say....
"If youll are trying to say...."
-hypothetical interrogatory intros by cerebate

Hence, my "hypothetical" response scenario

Now what do I say?

I say myself and other "armchair critics" have a right to question the wisdom of Belgian legal interpretations. Since when has this been verboten?
Plus I've got the best teacher on the planet, experience, with Saddam's Republican Guard and exposure to not only the militaristic,but dis-informational tactics as well. Readily identifiable. Please feel free to stick around. Our mutual education would be invaluable.

Projection,Deception,Victimization,Infiltration

Celebrate,

I have a few questions here. Who was the threat to civil order here? Certainly you do not refer to SIOE do you? If the answer is that it wasn’t SIOE then the natural follow up question is. Since when do you law abiding Europeans let fascists threaten free speech and free assembly? If you believe that the threat was not the SIOE will you admit you were wrong? By the way we are angry here due to the fact that we are witnessing your rights dissolve in Europe right before our eyes. The arrogance of the left has left me speechless in this regard. You honestly believe somehow your rights and social ascendancy are guaranteed … even in the face of all the demographic information available, even in the face of what the Islamists say about what they will do, and how they will do it. Truly incredible times we are facing! Time to wake up my friend the enemy is not SIOE, and the freedom of your grandchildren is NOT certain.

marisol

then don't mention any democratic nationalist parties on jihad watch.

leon

Scott with the 3-pointer from the top of the key!

Now this commercial break for Chunky Peanut Butter.

johnadams

"Gotta believe you can find like-thinkers at some of those English football matches?"

have you read bill buford, "among the thugs"? an american journalist becomes friends with football hooligans and writes about them for years.

the soccer hooligans care nothing for politics. they can wreak cities, literally, in their THOUSANDS, yet all their anger is aimed at hte opposing teams and the opposing teams city.

they are nothing but violent, mindless thugs. no direction (we have tried) all they want to do is watch football, and kill the other side.

football hooliganism has been around since the late 19th century.

they are a waste of space.

marisol

then are you please that Vlaams Belang party members were arrested?

i'm confused.

why have this post if you are not supporting any right wing party.

if churchill was around today with his same views on immigration and islam would you also be telling him he was not supported by jihadwatch?

the BNP have exactly the same idealology as Sir Winston Churchill, this is an undisputed fact!

leon

in the words of sir winston churchill

The prime minister began the discussion, saying: "Problems wh. will arise if many coloured people settle here. Are we to saddle ourselves with colour problems in UK? Attracted by Welfare State. Public opinion in UK won't tolerate it once it gets beyond certain limits."

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/politicspast/story/0,,2142476,00.html

these are the words of churchill.

the greatest leader the west has known for a thousand years.

and now call me racist!

but, marisol

i have made my point, the same way that members of europe's people today made their point but were beaten down by the militias of marxism.

this is a really sore topic for me, european nationalism and free speech. today both were torn down. this has been a really stressful day for me and for all of us.

i wouldnt be posting here if it wasnt for 9/11.

thanks marisol

A weak showing.

Europeans seem to prefer the same massive denial that brought on the Nazi menace.

I suggest that we let them handle their new Muslo-folly themselves.

They didn't learn from being helped by the U.S. twice.

They need to save their own behinds this time.

"Brussels Belgium is a non sharia law and these people were in violation of it.'

Lets cut throught the bullshit shall we,

here you say Belgium the ones in power know whats best, yada yada yada,

Oh Really,

well if Europe is such non-sharia law, then please explain to us why the fn' hell [I'm not civil nor nice, when it comes to Sharia and the b.s. pandering apologists] then,

honour killings are tolerated, fgms are tolerated, and are increasing? Oh, because politicians know how to keep order,

YOU MEAN THE STATUS QUO?

to HELL with the status quo, to hell with p.c., to hell with tolerance when its blatant abuses of human rights, women's rights, and children's rights,

you have sorry ass political Islamists all over Europe in the streets with their full face sheets [which in my opinion, THEY SHOULD BE ARRESTED] and their denying the Holocaust, one doesn't have to like the actions of Israel, to know that History doesn't lie,

not only that, its a fricking INSULT to the commies, gays, gypsies and many other 'anti-Hitler/Nazi' and CHILDREN, who were killed in those camps,

let some Muslim or anyone deny the Holocaust to my face, I'll knock the living crap out of them, and no, I'm not Jewish. That in my book, is THE OUTRAGE,

how European governments are ALLOWING THESE THUGS, THESE BARBARIC THUGS TO PUSH THEIR LUDICROUS MEDIEVAL THE WORLD IS FLAT THEOCRACY

and SHOVING IT LITERALLY DOWN THE CITIZENS THROATS...

when GOVERNMENTS TURN THEIR BACK ON THE CONSITUTIONS OF THE COUNTRIES, THEY DON'T

DESERVE THE RESPECT OR THE COMPLIANCE OF THE PEOPLE,

ITS THAT TIME, WHEN PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT--TO OVERTHROW THE CORRUPT OLIGARCHIES,

and what you have in Europe today [and in US though its more subtle here] is Oligarchy,

in bed with DESPOSTISM,

I don't concur with the extreme right wing or the racial puritists, by no means, but I DAMN SURE stand on the rights of people who demand respect for their country--

if Westerners were to go to ANY ISLAMIST country and pull the Shit that Muslims are pulling in the west,

they'd be hanged, and not one apologist pandering COWARD would even flinch to raise protest,

when you see Muslims in Britain, demanding Sharia, who the HELL DO THEY THINK THEY ARE,

when you see Muslims DELIBERATELY FLAUNTING THEIR TOTAL AND BLATANT DISREGARD FOR A NATION'S LAWS,

ABUSING AND USING THE NATION'S SYSTEMS,

AND THE GOVERNMENTS PROTECTING THAT SHIT,

NO, THEN THE PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO DO FAR MORE THAN PROTEST...

ITS BETRAYAL, ITS GOVERNMENT BETRAYAL, ELECTED OR NOMINATED OFFICIALS BE IT REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY OR

PARLIAMENTARY,

AND WHEN THE GOVERNMENT BETRAYS, THE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT,

TO DISOBEY, TO PROTEST, AND TO USE ANY MEANS POSSIBLE,

TO GET RID OF THE TRAITORS,

GOVERNMENT FOR THE PEOPLE,

IF YOU LIKE OR ARE THAT TOLERANT AND APOLOGETIC TO TOTALITARIANISM, FASCISM [BE IT RIGHT OR LEFT]

MAY I SUGGEST, GO LIVE UNDER IT FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS.

What we are seeing in the world today is far worse than STALINISM,

its a CULT OF PERSONALITY that has people so duped and so afraid, that they ARE POLICING THEMSELVES OF

CRITICAL THOUGHT.

that should scare the Hell out of you...a hell of a lot more than protesters,

it reminds me of the thinking of "better red than dead" well that was easy for those living under somewhat relative freedom to pronounce such nonsense,

it was a far different cry for those, who dared not even make a joke against Stalin, or a Soviet official because dare one who heard, not turn that person in,

it could be, a set up, that if you didn't turn the person in, you might be arrested, THATS HOW TOTALITARIANISM WORKS,

THE PEOPLE IN IRAN RIGHT NOW, TODAY, ARE GOING TO JAIL IN THE THOUSANDS, SUFFERING TORTURE YOU COULDN'T EVEN IMAGINE,

JUST FOR THE RIGHT TO BREATHE, LIVING UNDER A REGIME THAT IS SHEER LIVING HELL,

AND THATS WHAT MUSLIMS WANT TO PUSH AND FORCE IN BRUSSELS, IN UK, IN SCOTLAND, IN AMERICA, IN ASIA,

PROTEST--SHIT,

PROTEST IS TOO NICE, WE AREN'T TALKING HERE ABOUT PEOPLE WANTING LAWS ABOUT THE WAY ONE DRIVES,

WE'RE TALKING HERE ABOUT GOVERNMENTS TOLERATING AND EVEN ALLOWING, ACCOMODATING SOME OF THE WORST HUMAN RIGHT ABUSES THERE IS, FOR THE SAKE OF

CAPITALISM/FREE TRADE AND GOOD PR RELATIONS WITH DESPOSTIC THUG REGIMES,

AT THE EXPENSE OF YOU, ME, THE WORLD.

TO HELL WITH THOSE GOVERNMENTS, IF THE PEOPLE RISE UP AGAINST THEM,

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SYMPATHY FOR THE GOVERNMENTS, MY SYMPATHY AND SUPPORT, IS WITH THE PEOPLE,

FIGHTING THE WORST FORM OF HELLISH TOTALITARIANISM AND FASCISM THE MODERN WORLD HAS SEEN TODAY.

Tasha

One more thing,

WHAT WE NEED IN THE WORLD TODAY, IS PEOPLE WITH THE BALLS,

to STAND UP AND DECLARE,

HOLY WAR BACK.

AND MEAN IT.

independent Lefist, former Socialist who still believes in Marxist economics,

who will Dare say, Socialists in Europe -- YOU SHOULD BE SHOT.

Traitors to Marx, to the Prolitariat, to Freedom, to Women's Rights, to every thing Marx and Engels and Luxemburg/Lenin stood for--

Tasha

People of the World UNITE--AGAINST THEOCRATIC FASCIST ISLAM.

Here's another blogger that was at the protest and took pictures.

http://bullseyeonimmigration.blogspot.com/2007/09/brussels-sept-11-protest.html

Those photos show more police and gear than I have ever seen in photos of any protest.

To all in the JW community,

Don't buy into cerebate's mantra, for I deem him disingenuous. He is at best an atheist, another scooternyc, or worse an Islamic apologist, or at the worst, an Islamist posing as something else.

I visited the site, at Eagle's behest, a couple of days ago, and saw how elric66 was treated there. I was not impressed. Eagle, the site host, whom I believe has good intentions, has been corraled by those of less unsavory character, like cerebate.

Judge for yourself.

http://eaglespearlsofwisdom.wordpress.com/2007/08/31/what-is-a-bigot-and-how-does-it-apply-to-the-subject-at-hand/#comment-386

Natasha, it's not capitalism. It's socialism.

Throughout the 20th century, socialist and communist governments have wreaked more havoc and created more misery than any other governments in Europe in the previous 19 centuries.

Union of Soviet Socialist Republic.

National Socialist German Work Party (NAZI).

Don't let the Lefties confuse you. Socialism is the root of political evil.

football hooliganism has been around since the late 19th century.

they are a waste of space.

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at September 11, 2007 10:10 PM

Disagreed, leon.

Ask Dhiren Barot, that is, if he can still speak.

PS Lay off Marisol. She is doing her duty for this site. I have seen you here awhile, longer than me probably. Don't let your personal beef with Matamoros distract you from your valueable purpose here, nor does it relieve you of your duty here either.

Regards.

More photos.

http://galleri.tv2.dk/index.php/category-Nyhederne/id-8362270/page-1.html

The west needs laws to make it a crime to be involved in any action construed as jihad related. Including intercourse .

Borg says

"The reason given for not allowing the protest was that they couldn't guarantee the safety of the protestors."

Such protection is never required for Muslims, who openly and legally (?) press their intolerant, genocidal message with impunity in their demonstrations in free countries. They are *never molested* during these hateful displays.

These facts clearly indicate the inspiration for the fear. Sooner or later that fear will turn into something else.

Borg:

Thanks for the link.

Oh. My. God.

The picture of them grabbing that poor man's balls.

The people challenged and disobeyed authority, and authority reacted the way it always does, with a club, and a gun, and a grab between the legs.
I know that it was in Belgium, but it seems like home to me...

Pez...I don't pay for gold. I get it for free..I have a dredge and mine it from local rivers.
About 1/2 oz average for a six our day. Hard work and sort of dangerous, but worth the effort.

"WHAT WE NEED IN THE WORLD TODAY, IS PEOPLE WITH THE BALLS,

to STAND UP AND DECLARE,

HOLY WAR BACK.

AND MEAN IT."

Wrong way, Natasha, then you're fighting on their terms. This is NOT a religious war, it is a war of civilized human conduct under rule of law against primitive barbaric religious fundamentalist extremists who demand respect but have done nothing to earn it.

The battle is intellectual first, then legal, then military, to uproot and discredit these ignorant sows of Islamic funamentalism. Free women from serfdom to men, educate their brainwashed masses that the West is NOT the enemy as they are told, and give freedom a chance in those slaveholding societies. Then we can lick this. To make it into a 'holy war' is the absolutely wrong way to go. There is no religious angle to this war, but the confirmation that our values of freedom are superior to their values of slavery. Their islamic religious spin is pure lies.

atheling-

And from the video he wasn't even doing anthing. There were more media people there than anyone else. So where's the news coverage?

Their next protest should just be all residents agree to put a large sign in their windows - poster size. Not in the street at all. Unless they are afraid that they might get their houses torched.

Looks like freedom of speech and freedom of assembly is going down the tube in Belgium.

Why was this demonstration a failure? It is because people in Europe have not yet gotten the picture of where they are heading, down the path of gradual islamification of European laws towards sharia law. Politicians fear this as much as they fear for their unworthy skins from islamic reprisals against them, so they beat their own people instead. But politicians, and their bureaucrat armies, are also crafty enough to know how to save themselves, so they keep the truth from their civilian masses to keep them quiet. Hence, the demonstration fails.

However, the European giant will not sleep forever, and once the common people realize the level of the islamic threat, they will waken. And then politicians and their bureaucrat stooges will not be able to control them. This is all about control, why the PC media keeps it all so quiet. But they can't lie forever, though shaitan is a master of lies and his islamic sock puppets are the best at takiyya, there are limits to how much they can lie to the people. Once the truth is out, and we here are telling the truth to the world, the tide of history will swell in ways the politicians will no longer be able to control. They fear this immensely. Watch the polls in future elections in Europe, and America, and watch for that tidal change. Truth always wins in the end, which is why shaitan is so angry, and making his moslem minions go crazy with rage. Patience, the truth will win. The people will eventually see more clearly, once they rouse from their stupor, what we here can already see way in advance.

The biggest concern will be when these demonstrations are no longer small fringe groups but vast popular uprisings. Blood will flow then. Islamics have no idea what they are unleashing on themselves. If I were a Moslem in Europe, I'd get my emigration papers ready now. You know when it hits, they'll have those imams by the balls, literally. This little demonstration has no effect on the bigger turn of events upcoming. Do not be discouraged by this one small failure. Bigger things are coming.

“The enemy is extremism, we think.”

“Ammunition other than antipersonnel ammunition.”

Thanks for the tax break.

http://www.maryland-business.net/bullet_tax.html

“Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”

From Federalist 46, attributed to James Madison, the author of the United States Constitution.

http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/federal/fed46.htm

Battle of Tours:
I do believe--or perhaps I just want to believe--that you are ultimately right. Not sure though. Europe fights a generation of Social Democratic ROT. Europe will need its own 9/11 (blow up the Louvre? Dirty bomb in London?) before it even begins to wake up to the imminent threat on its greatest treasures. I saw video today of some Brit imam--cocky as all hell--telling a laughing audience of doubtless all "peaceful" and "moderate" Muslims in his flock: "They say, are you with us, or are you with the terrorists?...and of course I said, 'I'm with the terrorists." Enough said.

JohnAdams, remember Santayana's "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

Europe has a tough lesson to learn, once again. They will, their civilization had not lasted these past two millennia because they are stupid, something the islamics do not understand. Our freedom roots are deeper than those shallow islamic roots of the arabian desert. I'm confident.

Cerebate: Perhaps they should have held a rally against the unfair decision to ban the protest instead of continuing regardless. However, illegal though it was, history has shown that people must sometimes break the law to change the law (and the common zeitgeist).

I personally believe, sitting here in my comfy chair, that the rally was banned because of the expected 'backlash' from the muslim community resulting in the use of free speech against the dangers of Islam. Zeitgeist

Here's the pic's on sheik yer'mami:

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/09/12/brussels-fat-freddys-stormtroopers-beating-harassing-911-protestors/

I am afraid it was a failure and I think one of the reasons was the only publicity I saw was on the web. I have to confess I intended to go but did not because of the difficulty of travel from the UK. I also thought there would be so many there one more would not make any difference.

If there is any comfort to be gained it is from the fact that the MSM (So far as I am aware) gave the minimum of publicity beforehand and are not crowing over the failure. That they are frightened to let people know about it says a lot.

Socialists and media like the BBC call SIOE members and protesters "racists" and "islamophobic".

Yet...
the BBC is blatantly ANTI-AMERICAN - and that is racist.
the European Union is blatantly ANTI-AMERICA and ANTI-JEWISH that is racist.

Islamophobia is no racism at all. We are being called "racists" by people who are themselves hate-filled racists.

Dear Belgium, don't go the way of India. In India we too supported the Islamists in the name of "freedom of expression" and called the Hindus "communal" when they questioned the intentions and activities of Muslims. Now that has given the Hindus a monster which is of their own creation. The only option left to the Hindus now is to confront islam willy nilly. In fact, the Muslims of India are of Indian origin and not immigrants.

So wake up Belgium, learn from the Indian example, at least let your Belgians call a spade, a spade - thereby avoiding the "have-to-face" critical condition of tomorrow.

As I promised, I was in the Place Luxembourg yesterday.

The demonstration was not 'a failure'. It was the first attempt by ordinary citizens in a free country to register their protest against the creeping influence of Sharia Law into the governance of European nations. The disappointing turnout was due, in large measure, to the confusion about the demonstration's legality and the question as to whether or not it had been cancelled. True, there were scuffles involving the 'Flemish Interest' Party. These were properly contained.

I was there.

Never again do I want to read posts on this website (or anywhere else) from Americans reviling the citizens of 'Old Europe' about their complacency in the face of fascism. When are we going to see better demonstrations in New York, Washington, San Francisco, Detroit, Denver, St Louis etc. etc. ..?

I've collected all pictures and movies about the event I could find here:

http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/2007/09/911-commemoration.html

"As I promised, I was in the Place Luxembourg yesterday." Posted by: LondonBorn&Bred

Will you tell us about your experience, please?

Please note:

The Vlaams Belang was on Place Schumann and was NOT the SIOE demo.

The SIOE demo was on Place du Luxembourg

In case anyone missed it, here is the MUST-SEE disturbing video of the arrests in Brussels yesterday.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6dd_1189528478

Europeans are always at the cutting edge of stupidity. Now, demonstrators against immigration will be arrested as racists. This fashionable trend of forbidding demonstrations against immigration will be extended to demonstrators against illegal immigration. Racism will be newly defined as any opposition to foreign persons of foreign culture regardless of the maleovalence of the invader towards you. Brussels is not dissimilar to London. The invaders though still a small population of the larger country are a large part of the population of the big city. This is how in Brussels the capital of Europe a small number of Belgian Moslems can dominate city politics and arrange for the banning of demonstrations against immigration and the pretext that the city cannot protect the demonstrators at the same time that the city viciously attacks the demonstrators. As pointed out by traeh, a Muslim plurality dominates the government of the capital of Europe. Muslims now control this key city at the heart of the European Union.

1. Fatima Abid
2. Mustafa Amrani
3. Samira Attalbi
4. Mohammed Boukantar
5. Philippe Close
6. Jean Baptiste de Crée
7. Ahmed el Ktibi
8. Julie Fiszman
9. Faouzia Hariche
10. Karine Lalieux
11. Marie-Paule Mathias
12. Yvan Mayeur
13. Mounia Mejbar
14. Mohamed Ouria Ghli
15. Mahfoudh Romdhani
16. Sevket Temiz
17. Freddy Thielemans
18. Christian Van Der Linden

10-of 18 names by my count are clearly Muslim names.

Sound the cathedral bells. This is the end of western civilization as we know it. This also illustrates an unarticulated truth about the war of islam against the west, the truth being that the muslims have taken up positions in the major capitals of most European countries and have a huge leverage as a fifth column not on the basis of one person one vote but on the basis of leveraging potential violence against the majority will. The invaders have effectively established veto rights which assure no freedom or democracy if the exercise of such freedom or democracy is inconsistent or opposed by a muslim morality or its community values.

Anyone see this?

Mailman refuses to deliver mail that he disagrees with.

http://blog.balder.org/?p=250

OK, some first-hand experience from a Czech participant.

I was only on the Luxembourg square, not on Schuman square. The police presence was threatening from the very start: a contingent of at least 100 uniformed policemen and some plain-clothes ones.

There could be about 150 demonstrators at 12:00. Some people arrived after this point, and some left soon, so the overall head count could be about 300. The crowd was larger, but there was a lot of journalists, busy making interviews. Not all were from MSM, some were independent journos. From what I have seen, they seemed to have genuine interest in the discussion.

Skinheads were a small minority, not more than 10 people. They could be police plants too.

My 2 friends were busy flying the Czech flag and giving interviews to the journalists, who were attracted to the flag as it was very visible. They were arrested for this "horrible crime" and kept in custody for 8 hours. I notified the embassy, finally they were released with no charges. The police did not maltreat them in custody.

After 12.30, police marched away from the Luxembourg square in the direction of Schuman square. From what I have heard the situation was much more problematic there, with the Vlaams Belang demonstrators being arrested in droves, and some Scandinavian protesters too.

The SIOE and SIAD crew was tolerated on Luxembourg square. The leader, Anders Graves from Denmark, is a remarkable person with good leadership skills. We had a minute of silence for the 9/11 victims, sitting on the pavement. At that time, there were only about 10 policemen left, and though they grew disturbed with the sit-in, they could not really bother with 100 people sitting on the square.

After the action, there were some informal discussions among the protesters. There was a lot of Czechs (about 50 at least), Polish (about 50 too), Danish (at least 100), some Germans (I would say 30) and British.

I tried to investigate the status of Islam-debate in various countries. It seems that at least the Germans and the Danish can have reasonable debate about Islamic extremism in the mainstream, but they are still afraid to question the religion per se. But the counterjihad groups in Germany and Denmark seem to have some momentum.

If you have any questions, just go on and ask me.

I was intending to go and had a fairly massive argument with my wife over it, in the end I did not, it does not help having the police being there to attack you rather than defend you.

However another factor that you should not discount is that we are the law abiding majority, so when the leftie-dhimmi a-hole banned it we respected the law, SIOE made an appeal, as it was liable to be attacked by Islamic terrorists and thugs, and if it was illegal we would have the police as well to contend with, this was the major reason for the low numbers.

Anyway I heard that there was 300 in the main march and the 200 that the press were talking about were the VP supporters that got beaten up and arrested.

It was also a week day.

However SIOE should now ask for another march day having proved that the main march was peaceful and the only violence came from the police, at which point we can really put the pressure on the Eurocommies who now will be on the back foot.

But SIOE must do it on a Saturday!!!!

Ferdy -Excellant coverage. Here's another video for you.

http://www.brusselnieuws.be/site/templates/media_view?id=1189523907&streamingtype=VID

"we respected the law..." --Daffersd

But this "law" (banning the SIOE protest) does not deserve "respect." Indeed, civil disobedience a la Henry David Thoreau is what should be respected here - Those who DID show, how brave, knowing that the Brussels Gestapo would be there strong-arming people.

In this context, "respecting the law" reminds me of "I was just following orders" (Nazi Adolph Eichmann).

week day shmeek day if it's something this important.

From watching the above video posted by Borg, I think it's safe to say that the Gestapo is alive and well in Europe - again. History is repeating itself right before our eyes.

LondonBorn&Bred - Thanks for being there. Can you post about what you saw?

Abu Kafir - Thanks for your commentary.

Citizen journalists are very important.

Especially since we need people who can speak more than one language to translate the comments.

I don't think I can add to what has already been said in previous posts.

I am waiting to see how the American people can improve upon our efforts in Europe.

And I do recommend that you choose a Saturday or Sunday for the demonstration, if you expect to achieve a better attendance.

Abu Kafir, Brussels seems to have a large Moslem population, if the government representatives listed by David England is an indication of population mix, Mohammeds and Fatimas rule. Thanks for update, and thanks for being there.

Since you were there as eye witness, did you see a large presence of curious onlookers or counter demonstrators from Islam representatives? Maybe not, since they had stopped it from inside city hall, but I wondered if they were curious enough to attend, or stayed away. Any headscarfed Famitas or blackbearded Mohammeds about the two squares?

Daffersd: If the police is somewhere to attack you instead of protect you - it is a priceless experience. Sort of a myth-buster.

The fact that the demo took place on Tuesday definitely had a negative impact on the total turnout. It is quite hard to travel 1000 km there and back - basically, you can kill 3 working days like that. And most counterjihad people do NOT live off welfare to have that much free time.

I am strongly for such actions taking place at the weekend.

Battle_of_Tours: the Eurocrat neighbourhood where the demos took place has just a few Muslims. There were about 5 of them present at the demo. The main trouble was definitely NOT muslims, but the police themselves.

Muslim presence is much more visible in the Old Town. I spent some time there, waiting for my friends to be released from prison.

In the whole day, I saw quite a lot headscarfed Fatimas. Some of them were blue-eyed native converts. Most of them had tight hijabs, but not a few wore a loose scarf that actually let their hair show a lot. I also saw some miniskirted Arab girls with no indication of piety in their clothing. I have met one clear Jihadi type in his 50s, he looked like bin Ladens sidekick ... the hatred in his eyes was piercing. Most middle-aged Muslim males were reasonable. The "youth" however looked quite criminal. Not in the jihadi way, just in the "steal-and-gang-rape-way", sort of "Euro Urban Rap".

Battle_of_Tours- I've watched all the video coverage. I only saw one beardless with a cap in one video and the last video I posted showed one bearded one being put onto the police bus.

Abu Kafir can you tell us any more?

Thanks Abu Kafir, I was there too, (you can read my report on http://insoumission.wordpress.com/2007/09/11/manif-sioe-flop-flop-flop-et-demonstration-de-lefficacite-de-la-police-belge-si-ca-arrive/ ), and I saw from afar your flag-waving friends pulled in by the police. I'm really beginning to feel fed up with my stupid little country.

Battle_of_Tours: I do not want to answer in the place of Abu Kafir, but being on Place du Luxembourg too, here's what I can say:

- Curious onlookers? There were people there, people working or having lunch on the Place, in the sun, on café terrasses, but many? I do not know. It as difficult to say who was there because of the demo, and who was there for other reasons - as, when we saw how cops treated people, some of us hesitated in showing badges or signs. I think there were slightly less attendants than what Abu Kafir reports, actually: there were the fully equipped cops, a huge lot of journalists, and then the others, potentially demonstrators or onlookers... But if you looked closely (earpiece, talking with cops, pointing people to them), you could tell than there were also cops in civilian clothes among them, quite a lot.
The only real (?) curious onlookers I met for sure while there yesterday were two ladies, one in her thirties, probably an employee of the UE (she spoke good French, but with a nordic accent), and an older one (65 or so). They were wondering what the crowd and the cops were doing. The younger one was apparently not surprised when told there was a demonstration against the islamisation of Europe, the older was confused; the talk went more or less along these lines:

"You mean, agains islamists?"
"No, Madam, against islamic influence on the european way of life"
"but... what? why?"
"Against all sorts of things, from halal food in school to heavily veiled women and reference to charia. And why? Didn't you hear anything about islam since 2001? Or even the latest terrorists plots in several european countries last week?
"But but but... islam has nothing to do with it..."
"Well, maybe you should learn about it, try to read the Coran and decide for yourself..."

(I could tell she was not convinced, and thinking us bad people)

- Counter demonstrators: none in sight.
- Headscarf: at least one seen. A young woman with a pinkish veil (I saw her in one of the press picture gallery, but can't remember where). She was interviewed by some journalists, I saw.
- blackbearded mo's: none seen as such, but some muslims were there, of course (you're in Brussels!). I stood close to a delivery truck and its driver, obviously north african muslim, when he spoke quite agressively to an older demonstrator. The gentleman tried to discuss quietly, arguing (more or less, I was not listening very much to them as there were other events happening) that he was entitled to expressing his opinion, and that his opinion was that our laws should be applied and not being pushed back in favour of "islam-friendly" behavior. The discussion went nowhere, couldn't go anywhere I think, as the muslim was obviously not listening to the talk.
I just learned that the Belgian French-speaking telly reporter covering the event was actually one of their "multiculti" pearls from north-African background... Just for more objectivity, surely.

"Some of them were blue-eyed native converts." --Abu Kafir

Wow, that's sickening.

I guess I'm surprised more Mohammedans didn't appear.

Thanks Abu K and Borg, wish I were there. I only passed through Brussels once, so saw it briefly. Maybe better organization next time will bring out people marching peacefully in force. How about a celebration of peace and Europe's rich culture 'in your face' to those angry immigrant 'youths' and hate spiel imama.

The "youth" however looked quite criminal. Not in the jihadi way, just in the "steal-and-gang-rape-way", sort of "Euro Urban Rap".

Are these the "youths" to watch in the future as potential 'reverts' back to jihad? Maybe just the car burning, window smashing, hate looks restless variety for now, but more determined jihadis when the imam calls? You get that look in America as well if you're in the 'wrong' neighborhood, since you're not part of the "hood" if you know what I mean, no matter what your skin. Europe was not like that twenty or thirty years ago, American cities already were, so they're catching up. Sad to see it in Europe's largest and most beautiful historic cities going the way of 'no go' areas. Watch your wallet, while women get pinched by those oversexed goats of Mohammed.

STATEMENT OF:
Secretary General of the Council of Europe

Europe is threatened by bigots - not by Islam

Statement by Terry Davis, Secretary General of the Council of Europe, on the march “Against the Islamisation of Europe” today in Brussels

European values are under threat, say the organisers of a protest march under the banner “Against the Islamisation of Europe” which was due to place today in Brussels in spite of the ban by the city Mayor.

The fact is that Europe and its values are indeed under threat, but the danger is not coming from Islam. Our common European values are undermined by bigots and radicals, both islamists and islamophobes, who exploit fears and prejudice for their own political objectives.

The self-proclaimed defenders of European values say that the Mayor has violated their rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. The freedom of assembly and the freedom of expression are indeed essential preconditions for democracy, but they should not be regarded as a licence to offend.

I will not enter into the discussion about whether the march should have been allowed or not, but I note that the protesters’ reading of the Convention is selective to say the least.

It is very important to remember that the freedom of assembly and expression can be restricted to protect the rights and freedoms of others, including the freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This applies to everyone in Europe including the millions of Europeans of Islamic faith, who were the main target of today’s shameful display of bigotry and intolerance.

STATEMENT OF:
Secretary General of the Council of Europe

Europe is threatened by bigots - not by Islam

Statement by Terry Davis, Secretary General of the Council of Europe, on the march “Against the Islamisation of Europe” today in Brussels

European values are under threat, say the organisers of a protest march under the banner “Against the Islamisation of Europe” which was due to place today in Brussels in spite of the ban by the city Mayor.

The fact is that Europe and its values are indeed under threat, but the danger is not coming from Islam. Our common European values are undermined by bigots and radicals, both islamists and islamophobes, who exploit fears and prejudice for their own political objectives.

The self-proclaimed defenders of European values say that the Mayor has violated their rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. The freedom of assembly and the freedom of expression are indeed essential preconditions for democracy, but they should not be regarded as a licence to offend.

I will not enter into the discussion about whether the march should have been allowed or not, but I note that the protesters’ reading of the Convention is selective to say the least.

It is very important to remember that the freedom of assembly and expression can be restricted to protect the rights and freedoms of others, including the freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This applies to everyone in Europe including the millions of Europeans of Islamic faith, who were the main target of today’s shameful display of bigotry and intolerance.

Re: the "older" lady as reported by pistache:

"But...but...but...islam has nothing to do with it."

I simply cannot comprehend such ignorance. There's too much information out there for such unenlightenment.

Borg: I posted a quite long description of my experience on Luxembourg square a few hours ago. It is up in this thread. If you want to learn more, please ask some specific questions ...

Darcy: This is not ignorance. This is fear. This is the same as the driver of a car that is bound to crash, closing his eyes just before the impact. The old lady probably starts realizing that Islam has a lot to do with that. But she is still afraid to admit it to herself. Because once she admits it, she will get to inevitable conclusion that there is a Big Big Problem on the horizon. And people are loathe to recognize new problems: they have to cope mentally with the ones that they already admit.

It was not a failure.

The demonstration, as poor as the turn out was, (and I was disheartened to hear about so many people who turned around and left when the police showed up - that was the point of their presence -to discourage and intimidate!) still confirms the sorry state of Europe's leaders.

They must do it again. And choose a Saturday or Sunday so you have more turn out.

And the demonstrators have to be prepared for to face imprisonment and violence. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet.

I'm surprised it didn't turn out more violent. Hell, my adrenaline started pumping from just watching the videos. I wonder if Americans would have started throwing rocks or something (see Kent State Massacre). It would have been pretty ugly.

Then of course you'd have a class action suit against the Mayor, the City and the police...

I totally agree, Darcy. And I thought for a while: "too bad she's too old and won't live another 30 years, she really deserve a burkha!" :-)

But you must understand there's also so much disinformation, especially on French (and French speaking) television... Do you know that one or two weeks ago, there was a full "documentary" movie shown on ARTE, devoted to "Muhammad and the women", where they were able to never mention the age of Aïcha when he married her, and they almost passed him for a feminist?

Also... There're some good books on islam written or translated in French (I'm thinking about authors like Anne-Marie Delcambre, Bat ye'or (do ask yourself why she wrote Eurabia in English first!), and at least one of Ibn Warraq's books), but there are not a lot, and they are most often hard to come by. One of the best french-speaking book about islam I have is from Henri Lammens, and dates back to the first half of the 20th century! No, I do not see anything like R. Spencer, or, in a slightly different style - but very relevant to our problems - like M. Steyn's, B. Bawer's or the latest W. Laqueur in the french bookshops...

So... It's well possible than that poor, stupid old lady doesn't have a lot of other source of information than the television and magazines using methode Coué (i.e. repeating again and again "Islam is a religion of peace", "Islamists are not even real good muslims", in the hope that it suddenly becomes true)!

Atheling: as I wrote before: there is no better way how to experience the Warm Multicultural Embrace of the EU, than to face the police who is ready to arrest and beat you for what - for nothing. "Pour rien", as the locals would say.

That the very fact that you dare to voice your concern about your children being force-fed "respect" to Islam (halal meals et al) can get you in trouble, is an eye opener like no other.

I did not have many illusions about the Belgian state of political freedom before, but as of Sep 12, 2007: none are left anymore. That country is, on a smaller scale of course, mentally a soviet socialist ... kingdom

Abu Kafir--

So you are Czech. Then perhaps, a propos this first hopeless engagement in Brussels, you will enjoy "Stikhi k chekham" by Tsvetaeva, particularly the poem that begins with a news item about the single Czech officer and his twenty soldiers, who were guarding the border when the Germans marched in.

The poem begins with a short item in the newspaper, and has as a kind of refrain "Dvadtsat' soldat, odin ofitser."

I can't remember much, but I remember just a bit, here and there, as Tsvetaeva sets the stage in time and place :

Den' i mesyats? Vershiny, ekhom,
Den' kak nemtsi vhodili k chekham.

And then all of Nature -- the woods, the very woodsiest woods, his very own and very dear Czech woods that the invader was now on the point of invading, seizing, taking--

Les moi -- krugom. Samiy lesnoj....

And then the officer contemplates those woods, those Czech woods:

"Vsyo moj -- krugom."

And he tells the soldiers to stay put, and he marches off, alone, to confront the Germans. And he never returns. As the newspaper epigraph ends:
"sud'ba ego neizvestna."

Well, what can one say about this poem today? The invader is not marching, in the same way, wearing the same kind of identifying uniform, as the Nazis did when they took over Czechoslovakia. Instead, the menace of an ideology, a totalitarian and sinister all-encompassing ideology, is contained in the heads of people who do not declare that world-view, in posse or in esse, observed to various degrees, when they arrive at the customs. No mental baggage is checked or declared, and so they enter.

Stikhi k chekham. Stikhi k evropejtsam. Stikhi k vsem neveruyushchim.

Hugh, your command of Russian impresses me. I have some knowledge too, because I have learnt that language in 1988-1989 at the basic school, but the younger Czech generation has almost none. The languages, though related, are separated for 15 centuries and are not more inter-intelligible for untrained people than, say, Frisian and English.

The poem is wonderful. Yes, our border forests faced a lot of injustice in the last 100 years.

The threat of Islam is not so dissimilar from threat of communism: a virulent ideology. But people in the West are puzzled with the whole "freedom of religion" concept, which, at its beginning, did not assume that a "religion" could be intertwined with a political creed so much that these two features are inseparable.

"Living creatures perish with their false beliefs."

Atheling: sorry, but... when you write "I was disheartened to hear about so many people who turned around and left when the police showed up - that was the point of their presence -to discourage and intimidate", I'm wondering if you really realize what you say... There were about a thousand cops in that area of Brussels that day (source: Le Monde, for exemple), fully geared to charge, fully equipped, with trucks, pumps, horses, dogs... There were maybe (at most) 300 people, divided on two sites. Civilians. Not all of them young. So... "Intimidate"???

Anyway... my opinion about the poor turnout causes? They're multiple, here're some
1)Weekday
2)no MSM coverage or advertising, except to explain that the demo had been forbidden
3) some messing up, with Udo Ulfkotte's "cancelling" of the demo
4)Rumours (that journalists are no trying to pass for truth) that the demo would be (or even was already) taken over by "far right extremists" and that it would be "too dangerous"; rumours also that the muslims would make it dangerous (both things were of course possible, but scared some people!)
5)Fear of consequences - for exemple, that you will loose your job because your boss saw you on television in a so-called "far-right extremists biggots demo". This can make you think about it, if you live in an area with >20% unemployement! Actually, this is the reason that prevented some of my family members to come - they're working 'more or less as civil servants' in Brussels, i.e. for the socialist power. I too was warned by some people that it "could be dangerous for my career"
6)ignorance about islam - because of the disinformation I was talking about in the previous post, and also, Abu Kafir is right, "willing ignorance", that is people unwilling to see the problem
7)and finally, let's face it, of course also some cowardice and selfishness, with arguments like "I live in an area where there're no muslims / no islam problem / I'm over 50 and won't see the worse of it, I've got no kids anyway / my kids are away / I have enough money to get away if things become bad", so... "Why stick my neck out in that demo?"

Possible answers.

"I live in an area where there're no muslims" - "OK, maybe you should work to keep this blessing true".

"I'm over 50" - "Then you have enough life experience to understand the seriousness of the problem"

"I've got no kids anyway" - "OK, then you have less to worry about the potential backlash against you".

"my kids are away" - "Could this possibly have something with the large-scale Muslim presence in our cities"

"I have enough money to get away if things become bad" - "Nice to hear about your wealth. Maybe you could help counterjihad by some financial donation, and train yourself in shooting a bit ... ammo is expensive in Europe."

Abu Kafir... I like your answers, but I wonder if you did "practice" them for real? You look to me like an optimist... but maybe I'm the pessimist! ;-)

Hi Pistache ...

I have only met the following two:

"I live in an area where there're no muslims"

and

"I have enough money to get away if things become bad"

so far, and yes, I try to answer them ... with necessary personal adjustments of course :-)

Interesting angle on a new forthcoming demonstration which may surprise you. I so admire this guy's courage. I've wondered whether there weren't people like him:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/09/former-muslims-will-sign-declaration-of.html

STATEMENT OF:
Secretary General of the Council of Europe

Europe is threatened by bigots - not by Islam

Statement by Terry Davis, Secretary General of the Council of Europe, on the march “Against the Islamisation of Europe” today in Brussels

Comment;

Never heard of this character Terry Davis before but looking at his CV on the EU site he seems to be one of those politicians who has done everything and nothing before being put out to grass.

Europe is threatened by professional EUro-bureaucrats like Terry Davis and his ilk.

And Terry Davis is threatened by people like Counterjihad activits, since citizen activity could cost him his well paid job of "Important Empty Suit de Bruxelles".

It is very important to remember that the freedom of assembly and expression can be restricted to protect the rights and freedoms of others, including the freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This applies to everyone in Europe including the millions of Europeans of Islamic faith, who were the main target of today’s shameful display of bigotry and intolerance.

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at September 12, 2007 10:46 AM

They should use that 'against' the muslims then also.

Battle_of_tours - I wasn't there, just realized with all the cameras that I saw in the first photos that the journals must have been expecting trouble and that there would be postings to be found if I looked hard enough. So I looked around. I checked out Technorati to see who was discussing this.

Abu Kafir- Thanks again for all your postings and your presence at the protest.
We need you!

Sorry - he did have a big job before going into politics,

"Leyland Cars: Senior Manager (1974-79)

Promoted to General Manager of Jaguar Rover Triumph Parts Division with responsibility for more than 2 000 people"

Probably not his fault at that level, but they went bust despite being bailed out for millions by the British taxpayers.

remember this when a lib mentions how conservatives repress ones freedom of speach. The next time some lib mentions how the E.U. is better than the U.S. I'm gonna explode into a tyrade about this. I am sure this same thing would happen in some liberal cities and towns across the U.S.. I heard Mark Simone and Ron Cubby making fun of the folks that protested the "pakistani" parade in N.Y.C. I really wish Curtis was on the air to give his input.

LondonBorn, Abu K, and pistache, thanks for your on site commentaries. “Pour rien” was the heavy police presence, they were an unnecessary show of bureaucratic force, but the demonstration though small was not pour rien. It sent an early message to these EUrocrats that people are watching and thinking. That poor old lady who lives in blind-burka denial may symbolize what many wish, that it would somehow all go away, the ilsamists will not give them some loving embrace but keep pushing their totalitarian evil agenda. Eventually even the old lady will have to face the reality they are invaded, no matter how the Secretary General tries to play it down, like a good dhimmi pol socialist. When “Vivent la revolution!” becomes les citoyens battle cry, they will quake in their Guccis. ‘Freedom of assembly’ my foot... sharia's already on the other foot.

Hugh, ‘dvatsat soldat’ here was ‘dvista’ but not nearly enough. Next time they put on a little shindig like this, they had better plan all around, weekend turnout with lots of big placards clearly written for news hungry alt-media cameras. I find it puzzling there was little Moslem presence, like they already feel secure they own Europe. They probably were laughing in their beards, the ones who cared, while most went about their business like nothing’s happening, munching on lunch time kebabs rather than being their usual venomous confrontational disciples of Mo. Where was ‘Rage Boy’ through this? Bring on a bigger turnout out and watch him crawl out of his hole. Maybe it’s just Belgium, a ho hum unexciting place, a good place for EU headquarters, ho hum all around. Let’s talk about the weather in Bruxelles… was it nice?

the only good news out of all of this could be the fact that of the "leaders" arrested most were MEPs and they will persue this via the european courts.

i predict another "nick griffin" style court case and victory for the anti-jihadists.

The reason why the Muslims were not there was due to the fact that the police were doing their work for them.

There will come a point where we will have to go for quite aggresive law breaking strategies with the Fascist-Left in Europe, but that time is not now. We have to do it in such a way that the Far Right tag is shown to be the pack of lies that it is.

At this point we have Frattini saying that the march should not have been banned, progress my friends.

Here's another link to the story.

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/11553911/

Battle_of_Tours

You are right, much better organisation is needed.

Commemoration need not be on the actual day, a weekend will do as in the UK Remembrance Sunday (Veterans Day in the US?) has been on the nearest Sunday to 11th November for years. That way people will not lose 3 days pay. Advice on the net about getting to the city, different grades of overnight accommodation available close to the venue and transport links from them would be of more use than repeated calls to turn out.

@FreeSpeech

The situation was much too confused to say this demo was SIOE but that one over there was Vlaams Belang!

I was headed for the assembly point at Place du Luxembourg when I stumbled on the one at the Schumann roundabout. First thing I noticed were Norwegian flags flying. I questioned a young Swede who confirmed it was the SIOE protest. There were also yellow flags which I later learned were Flanders flags. I then ran into some people I knew who are involved in the Center for Vigilant Freedom as well as SIOE. Things were fairly calm at that point but the mood changed with the arrival of some Flemish VB politicians and their European Parliament associates. It wasn't long before the police were laying into the politicians, and then they started 'snatching' and tying up everyone else involved. I think I only escaped being arrested because I was filming and got mistaken for a press photographer.

Someone with good contacts with the Flemish, the Brits and the Danes told me the demo had deliberately been split into four groups. I saw protesters at three locations, no idea where the 4th was. This was a disastrous decision because it caused confusion among foreign demonstrators who already had problems finding their way around an unfamiliar city, and it enabled the police to roll up protesters much more easily than if there had been just one large protest.

Many people had argued in favor of holding the protest the preceding weekend but the SIOE organiser's insistence on holding it on 9/11 itself must have stopped hundreds if not thousands of people attending.

We can only hope that the organisers - whether SIOE or VB - learn from their mistakes.

taquiyasundown,

Thanks for your excellent scientific explanation of how it all works. It sounds even more gruesome than I orininally thought. I just hope that the venom delivered to the Infidel spiders by the Islamic Pepsis formosa is strong enough deaden the pain of being eaten alive.

"It is very important to remember that the freedom of assembly and expression can be restricted to protect the rights and freedoms of others, including the freedom of thought, conscience and religion."
- - - - -

Put another way: "We won't hesitate to arrest you for marching, sign-carrying, or flag-waving if we think your point of view might distress or annoy our Mohammedan overlords"

Ameriki
The honest answer is I dont know who would have created the trouble(it would need me to go through the appeal records, something i dont have access to and something that the media didnt cover). I do know(having stayed in europe) that the belgium courts are mostly fair. An appeal was made in a court(so accusations of the mayor's council being pro islam are countered) and the ban was upheld. But lets assume you are right, the people causing the trouble would be islamic fundamentalists. Could lives have been lost? Innocent lives? Yes? If the belgium mayor and police felt they could not guarantee the safety of people were they right in banning the demonstrations? In this case i believe so.
Again if this was a last resort and the people in power dont listen, yes go ahead break the law. I hardly believe this was the case and i also believe that a lot of alternate ways of protesting were available to these folks. That the demonstration was to be lead by two politicians should also be an indicator of the motivation factor.
"You honestly believe somehow your rights and social ascendancy are guaranteed"
Yes i believe in humanity. (Awake and other's will now call me naive

Natasha,
when you learn to use the keyboard without typing in CAPS, i might respond to you.

Awake,
Good to see you sending people to eagle. Reading alternate viewpoints can only help improve the folks here.

Proud-Hindu
You really dont know where the word Hindu originated do you? (hint hindu had nothing to do with the religion originally, read shashi tharoor if you have the time). Find out more about something that you say you are proud of, im sure you will learn something.

Xeno
"history has shown that people must sometimes break the law to change the law"
True. That is however not a justification for the current demonstration. Do you honestly believe these people couldnt for now, work within the law and get their point? across in belgium?(In saddam iraq,iran, saudi or pakistan , it would've been different)

You are of course entitled to draw your own conclusions of why the demo was banned. Someone who understands mob behavior will probably have different conclusions. An example from my own country is Bal Thackeray. in the 1980's or 70's he gave a speech denouncing south indians. the result?some of the people listening to the speech went on a rampage and rioted causing loss of life and property. For whatever reasons ,i believe the belgium law and order probably felt they could not guarantee the safety of innocents and hence their decision is correct. I have seen numerous examples of politicians calling rallies that cause trouble too really believe the current demonstrations motives.

G.C. Scott
The queries i had were because i wanted to know which of the two(or both or third) view you subscribe too so i would know whether to agree or disagree with you. You havent answered so i still dont.Anyway it is the strawman that i object to.

Yes you do have the right to question the belgian legal system. It is the hubris of the people here that they have already made up their minds in the absence of what the for/against case in court said that i comment about. again if the protest was islamic and it was banned and the people still protested and they were arrested, would you still provide the same reasons and justifications(hypothetical but atleast not a strawman). My stand would be exactly the same. What about you?
Please elaborate on your experience. Like you said it may prove to be invaluable, if nothing else i like to believe i have an open mind.

Awake
can you please atleast point to my comments while denouncing me?. I assure you salahudin and I are different entities. and i have already pointed out to you , neither am i an atheist, nor do i like any religion(including islam). I do have friends from atleast 5 different religions.

LondonBorn&Bred wrote:

As I promised, I was in the Place Luxembourg yesterday.

. . .
Never again do I want to read posts on this website (or anywhere else) from Americans reviling the citizens of 'Old Europe' about their complacency in the face of fascism. When are we going to see better demonstrations in New York, Washington, San Francisco, Detroit, Denver, St Louis etc. etc. ..?
...................................................

London Born and Bred, my mother went through the London Blitz, working in communications (teletype) with the British Army. My aunt drove a supply truck between London and the channel coast.

I'm glad you were there in Brussels.

It can be damn hard to get information, sometimes--these events hardly receive much MSM support. I wanted to attend the rally in support of Denmark some time ago at the Danish consulate in San Francisco in the wake of the Mohammed cartoon riots--it was very difficult to get any sort of information, and I missed it.

There are a series of anti-Islamism rallies coming up, I believe next month, at a number of Universities around the US. My alma mater, UC Berkeley, is holding one of these demonstrations. I need to find the date, and I plan to be there.

cerebate wrote:
Awake,
"can you please atleast point to my comments while denouncing me?"

Please stop patting yourself on the back for a second or two, will you?

Your "smartest man in the room" routine grows quite tiresome to endure, rather quickly I might add.

I did not denounce you, but rather referred to you as "unsavory", I believe.

I and a few others before me are attempting to do the dirty work for Eagle. I am not sending anyone over there for a differing viewpoints.

Get over yourself, you silly, "secular humanist", will you?

cerebate

that march was not illegal.

it had never been banned in any court.

why are you supporting the new european totalitarianism.

the next march on brussels will see thousands, illegal or legal we will march for freedom.

I would like to offer thanks for support at the demonstration in Brussels and express the hope that others will learn from our failures and build upon our successes.

Leonthepigfarmer wrote: the next march on brussels will see thousands, illegal or legal we will march for freedom.

Hopefully, in the interim, the leaders of next year's march will unify their base and eschew or root out dissension within their leadership which causes the march to be discredited or diluted. The last minute fracture between their leadership was most disheartening and may have deligitimized their voices.

Mobilizing the common citizen to march will only be accomplished by disseminating the group's message at the grassroots level more effectively. Handbills, pamphlets, word-of-mouth and secret societies worked quite nicely here in America for a certain group of freedom fighters. Human ideals and the cause of freedom was even discussed in taverns!

The SIOE website could have been more effective, too. Either draw more eyes in to the site there or build multiple sites to establish common cause with the entire free world. A spokesman delivering an inspiring, forceful, convincing plea and invitation on YouTube could reach a lot of common citizens.

The group's message to oppose Sharia and unchecked immigration was ignored by our American media. A baker's dozen of media conglomerates, international corporate tentacles, drowned out their message with a wall of noise. Celebrities behaving badly are the tripe du jour. We Americans should be asking why we didn't hear about the SIOE march. He who controls the media controls the civil debate. Perhaps, we need to less corporate dominance of our media and more news.

Of course, the group may prefer to just keep their cause for human rights and human freedom exclusive and limit the discussion to "princes of the realm," think tankers,intellectual groupies and people who write books. But, who knows, maybe involving more common citizens through a campaign aimed at making common cause with the citizens of the free world might deliver a decisive blow to the unabated momentum of Islamic supremacism. Free men or mice!

If you want to write to your local senator/MP/representative but can't be bothered composing a letter, here's my attempt at one for you to make use of if you wish.

Dear X,

I am writing to you to draw your attention to what happened in Brussels on Tuesday of this week (11th September 2007).

The planned Stop the Islamisation of Europe (SIOE) demonstration there had been banned by the Mayor of Brussels, Freddy Thielemans. The official reason for banning this peaceful demonstration was that the Mayor feared "chaos and security threats". Perhaps he was concerned about keeping law and order in the event of a counter-demonstration by the city's Muslims.

Here is a list of the 18 ruling Socialist Party (PS) members of the Brussels city council, headed by Mayor Freddy Thielemans:

Fatima Abid, Mustafa Amrani, Samira Attalbi, Mohammed Boukantar, Philippe Close, Jean Baptiste de Crée, Ahmed el Ktibi, Julie Fiszman, Faouzia Hariche, Karine Lalieux, Marie-Paule Mathias, Yvan Mayeur, Mounia Mejbar, Mohamed Ouria Ghli, Mahfoudh Romdhani, Sevket Temiz, Freddy Thielemans, Christian Van Der Linden.

Despite the ban, a few hundred peaceful protesters assembled anyway to voice their legitimate concerns. In particular, many Europeans believe that Sharia law (i.e. Islamic law) is undemocratic and subjugates women and therefore has no place in Europe or indeed in any Western democracy.

The heavy-handed police arrested 150 demonstrators, injuring some in the process. Many were held for several hours in custody before being released without charge.

Contrast the treatment of those people by Belgian police with the relaxed, hands-off attitude to the Muslim anti-cartoon demonstrators in London in February 2006, when placards saying "behead those who insult Islam" were on display.

It is easy to come to the conclusion that some, if not many, of Europe's leaders are unconcerned about the rise of Islam here.

You might like to know that Muhammad - Islam's founder - was a war-monger who personally put many to the sword. He also had a nine year-old wife, Aisha, to whom he had been betrothed when she was six. When he married her he was 53. It is reasonable to assume that the marriage was consummated. It is rather incredible that over a billion people today follow a religion started by such a person. Today a 53 year-old man having sexual relations with a nine year-old girl would be called a paedophile and he could expect to spend many years in prison for the offence.

I do not believe that Islam is compatible with democracy. There are no democratic Islamic countries. The West's attempts to bring democracy to Iraq have been fraught with hindrances, not least of which is the violent on-going feud between rival Islamic groups. Three countries - Saudi Arabia, Iran and parts of Nigeria - have Sharia law. For example, in Saudi Arabia women must wear headscarves. They cannot go out unaccompanied and cannot drive. Churches there are banned.

According to the Koran (verse 4:34) a woman is the possession of a man, whilst (4:3) a man may have up to four wives (although Muhammad had more that four).

The Koran (4:34 again) also invites a man to beat his wife if she disobeys him. It also (5:51) tells Muslims not to take Jews or Christians for friends.

The important thing to remember about the Koran is that Muslims believe that it is the immutable word of Allah. It cannot be wrong and it is not open to interpretation. Therefore, when verse 9:5 states "slay the idolaters wherever you find them", this is meant literally.

Europe is currently in the grip of the Left, who are in thrall to political correctness and multiculturalism. Muslims are seen by the Left as another minority group whose culture and lifestyle are morally at least as praiseworthy as those in the West.

Unfortunately Islam is unique among religions in that it tells its adherents to dominate non-Muslims with whom they come into contact. It teaches subjugation rather than tolerance. There is no Islamic equivalent to the Golden Rule and no concept of "love thy neighbour".

One more thing: Muslims often describe their religion as the "Religion of Peace" because they claim that "Islam" means "peace". It does not. "Islam" means "submission".

Your sincerely etc.

"again if the protest was islamic and it was banned,and the people still protested, and they were arrested,would you still provide the same reasons and justifications. My stand would be the same."
-cerebrate

This continued insistence that one code of law is being universally applied to all groups in Europe is naive at best,disingenuous at worst.

Funny thing is the majority of Muslim protests are constantly tolerated by authorities in the UK and other European nations. Perhaps they truly are afraid of alienating and enraging their immigrant populations and thus upsetting the current status quo. The actions of some officials,ranging from diplomats to politicians to intel- operatives are dictated by the influence of the Emirate kingdoms.

Muslims do get arrested for a variety of crimes in Europe and Australia. Generally, these include rapes,violent assaults or often honor killings of other Muslims,be they women or apostates. These court cases all too often are accompanied by the tiresome spectacle of whining,seething relatives who assign the blame towards all but where it truly lies.

One other major difference: This protest did not call for the overthrow of any governments or that rule of "law" you seem so apt to rightly defend. Contrast this with those Muslim protest which are seditious, to say the least, toward their host nations. Petitioning for a change of policy or redress of grievances,is a far cry from demanding the downfall of governments and rule of law.

"This continued insistence that one code of law is being universally applied to all groups in Europe is naive at best,disingenuous at worst."
Nope I didnt say that it IS being applied universally and uniformly, I said that the views expressed in this post would change if the actors were changed but the incident remained the same.

If it is your contention that the law should be universally applied then we agree. I disagree with the willful breaking of the law in a moderate , progressive country when there are clearly many alternate paths.

"Contrast this with those Muslim protest which are seditious, to say the least, toward their host nations"
Again, if the courts banned said protest , and the muslims went ahead , id expect and want them to be arrested too.
If your point is that similar muslim protests should be banned , id say its for the courts to decide depending on the situation on the ground. If the courts aren't competent enough or arent fair enough , then thats the problem that should be fixed first.

However coming from a country where various protests are repeatedly taken out , i'd say that motivation is far likely to be political in nature.
You'll seem to believe that there is no other motivations for muslim save Islam.

leonthepigfarmer
"An appeals court upheld the ban Aug. 29."
Sounds like they did to me.
In any case I do not support totalitarianism, I merely have more faith in the courts than you do.

Offtopic(sorry can't resist)
Awake
"Your "smartest man in the room" routine grows quite tiresome to endure, rather quickly I might add"
Im flattered.

"Get over yourself, you silly, "secular humanist", will you?"
Uh uh . I said the test showed im a secular humanist, I didnt say that im one(and i dont consider myself one).
Come now, is it really so hard to understand English? Perhaps you understand Arabic better, after all you must be spending so much time going over the Quran with a magnifying glass?

cerebate:

More faith in what courts? The courts of totalitarian regimes?

Europe is in trouble, yes, no doubt, but the dominant Left doesn't really want Islam ascendant.

Sooner or later (almost certainly later) they will jerk awake and realize that Islam is the new black plague which threatens everything they hold dear. (actually, I think they already know it's their biggest nightmare but they don't believe it could really happen, i.e. living under Islam's boot).

Only then will there be effective defense, that is if it's not too late.

In the meanwhile the Left will continue to use Islam as a battering ram against the evil inequities and appetites of Capitalism. Just wait until they meet Islam's rapacious appetites up close and personal.

Islam and the Left despise each other and are completely incompatible. Their present accommodation with each other is pure, shallow convenience. It's only a matter of time before they collide in Europe, imo.

Rapacious and Medieval appeatites, i should say.

Islam ascendant in Europe will make the Inquisition seem like child's play.

"If the courts aren't competent enough,or aren't fair enough,then that's the problem that should be fixed first."

Congratulations,you've finally put the horse before the cart. Just how would you suggest fine turning those courts of law?

"I disagree with the willful breaking of the law in a moderate,progressive country were there are clearly many alternative paths."

That was the type of viewpoint once held by many in the US south who could not come to terms with civil rights marches,Rosa Parks or integration. Those lawbreakers constantly held "illegal" sit-ins,marches or protests and were subjected to harsher ridicule and tactics then were recently faced in Brussels. It certainly takes a unique type of fortitude to engage in civil disobedience,certainly not for everyone.

"Youll seem to believe that there is no other motivations for muslim save islam."

Islam is a total regulation of life,dust to dawn,right down to the proper way to have a bowel movement,all other motives,interests must take a back seat if they do not further islam.

"I said that the views expressed in this post would change if the actors were changed but the incident remained the same."

Undoubtedly,there are posters who would be elated if an "illegal" Muslim protest ended abruptly with the protesters being manhandled by police. It's not gonna happen. That would be all but unheard of. The problem with such a hypothetical scenario is what has been alluded to in posts above: the double standard being employed in favor of Muslims at the expense of others. Do you remember the last time Muslims were not allowed to protest by a EU Government? Or didn't have police protection as they counter-protested? Available link perhaps?

if nothing else i like to believe i have an open mind. - cerebate

Your posts make it obvious that you do not.

As the firing squad put the blindfold on he sobbed "But you said when you took over you wouldn't kill anyone?"

The last thing he heard was "You fool, we lied"

atheling
Last i heard belgium isnt a "totalitarian regimes"

Borg
i sure will trust the judgement of open mindedness from ardent jihadwatch fans, especially someone with the nickname borg(you will be assimilated! resistance is futile!).

GC Scott
Nah i havent heard of many protests(by muslims or other folks) that were banned in EU anyway so no i dont know any.

However There is one where Pakistan banned a protest against the cartoons a year back
And i still say good for the pakistani police.
http://news.monstersandcritics.com/southasia/news/article_1131245.php/Clashes_as_Islamists_in_Pakistan_violate_protest_ban__Roundup_

Now if belgium had a crazy dictator as its President.. perhaps i would have different views.
My point is that a lot of the people in this forum are two-faced if they change views based on the same incident but different actors.

kafir world
"Islam is a total regulation of life,dust to dawn,right down to the proper way to have a bowel movement,all other motives,interests must take a back seat if they do not further islam."
I must admit im envious of you. To be able to assert a statement like this and ignore any and all evidence to the contrary, must take a highly focused mind.
Id like to write more but it's friday nite, so Id simply say your the most blissful person i know.

Well, cerebate, I wouldn't trust someone who comes here saying he wants to learn and has an open mind and then proceeds to call Robert Spencer a liar, here and on other sites, and instead of adding comments to the article, puts down all the comments of the other posters and Spencer. And then, as other posters have noted, pats himself on the back and calls himself enlightened. Ands admits that he hasn't done any reading on islam and doesn't need to since he knows all.

You are very pompous and arrogant.

Jihadwatch fans either ask questions to learn or have already learned by doing lots of reading and add opinions about the article or links. You are doing neither.

Why are you here? Obviously not to learn. Just to put everyone, including the host, down.

Ditto, Borg.

Pompous ass is a good description.

Cerebate, if you haven't figured out by now that Belgium is no longer a democracy (and neither is the rest of Europe) then you are either willfully obtuse or an idiot.

I am going to bet that it's the former.

But then, I'm sure that your next post will prove the latter.

Borg
"who comes here saying he wants to learn and has an open mind"
Nope I said i believe I have an open mind, I dont think i said i came here to learn.

"Robert Spencer a liar"
I said he has a financial motivation. By no logic saying he has a financial motivation is equivalent to saying he is a liar. But then logic is not one of your strong points is it?

"puts down all the comments of the other posters and Spencer"
Well now, if your comments were as true as you you'll think they were, they couldnt be put down , could they?

"Ands admits that he hasn't done any reading on islam and doesn't need to since he knows all."
Nope , i said im no expert. That doesnt mean i havent read about it. More importantly I know and can count as friends ,people who practise Islam . Can you?
I believe you can get a better feeling for a religion by speaking to people who practise it.

"You are very pompous and arrogant."
Possibly the only accurate statement in your post. But then you would know, wouldnt you?

"Jihadwatch fans either ask questions to learn or have already learned by doing lots of reading and add opinions about the article or links"
Ha ha ha. I see most of you'll interested only in agreeing vehemently with the main articles. The art of scientific inquiry, of questioning is conspicuous by its absence.

"Why are you here?"
Isnt this a deep philosophical question? Why are we here? 42!

atheling
"Belgium is no longer a democracy "
I suppose this an example of jihadwatch fans doing a lot of reading and forming their conclusions?

Hold on there celibate,

I never said all Muslims ADHERED to the strict tenets of islam. What I said was it was an all encompassing belief system. The "evidence to the contray" you refer to would primarily be the lifestyles of those secular Muslims who have "strayed from the path" according to those teachings and imams(including the late Khomeni) in the know. Any variety of links to Muslim websites can confirm this. Just a few clicks away....

It is with humble,yet esteem pleasure,however, that I must accept the praise you have chosen to heap upon such an undeserving vessel as myself. To be considered to possess not only "a highly focused mind" but to be ordained the "most blissful person i know" *(somebody once did a case study on what constant lower case "i's" mean by the way)* is really overwhelming coming from an individual as astute and articulate as yourself.

Sincerely,
Kafir World

Kafir world
The "evidence to the contray" you refer to would primarily be the lifestyles of those secular Muslims who have "strayed from the path"
This is a classical Logical Fallacy Begging the question/circular argument. You already believe Islam is (choose suitable derogatories words here). hence when given evidence to the contrary you conclude that they cant be following Islam.

Yeesh , you have no idea what sarcasm is
"most blissful person i know" follows from the old proverb - Ignorance is bliss.

Interesting case study for lower cases i's, got any links for that?(I find the handwriting analyses of rounded g's and sloping alphabets fascinating and amusing too, way better than say reading dilbert)

Oh and if the misspelling of my nickname is intentional, atleast one person got the pun!

cerebate-

Are you done...

Don't bother to reply.

Your nany-nany boo-boo, I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I - responses are tedious. Boring. And not relavent to this site topic.

Address the topic or STFU.

Your context of the term "blissful" would make me "the happiest person I know" Since bliss=happiness,euphoria.

"You are the most blissfully ignorant person I know." would have been appropriate.

So you still can't admit islam is a total regulation of life? And I never said islam is (insert derogatory term) I merely stated what is expressed by Muslim imams the world over. You are still invited to check it out from the horse's mouth,plenty of Muslim sites out there. No doubt your familiar with the concept of Taqiyya even if you can't recognize it. That doesn't mean all practice it,but any motive that does not have as it's ultimate goal the furthering of islam,is harum. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass,this is from islamic schools of jurisprudence. But hey, this is really run and I could do this with you almost indefinitely,but don't take my word for it. Go to sites like: askislam or asktheimam and see for yourself what these prevailing schools of thought tend to be. Incidentally, I also have known some Muslims through acquaintances and through functions with my company and they seem as nice,friendly considerate people. One can still be aware, and prepared for, the concept of sanctioned deception without chastising and ridiculing those parties involved.

Kafir World
"I also have known some Muslims through acquaintances and through functions with my company and they seem as nice,friendly considerate people"
So whats your explanation for why inspite of Islam being everything you say it is, these are still nice, friendly, considerate people? (And if its because they arent true muslims then dont bother replying ...)

Borg
"Address the topic or STFU."
I believe most of my original posts dealt with my opinion that in a progressive state, breaking the law should be a last resort and in this case the demonstration seems to be political.
The first couple of posts that you did address to me, sure do address the topic at hand dont they?

So why dont you take your own advice?
if you make an ad hominem attack expect one in return.

More crowing and patting yourself on the back. And more of I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I.

Your first comment to me was basically - I know more than you -.

YOU are the ad hominem poster. Of course I expected it out of you since that is all you have been doing here from the start. Towards everyone here and towards Mr. Spencer. I don't normally even address other posters except to complement them on finding a good link or good info or for making a good point. I've been here for several years and you are the FIRST poster who has been nastily arrogant with multiple commentors at the same time and coming back and back and back for more on the same thread. Except for the jihadi's that come to this site.

You come across as a troll. If you are going to keep running off at the mouth why don't you show us that you are not one?

And don't come off with your usual - why don't you show me that you're not one - answer.

http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/heroes/downfall.htm

I will ignore your future ramblings. Don't be too upset.

Anyone can be a nice friendly person. Remember that old song:"Smiling Faces,they sometimes lie." That can be true of anyone,anywhere,anytime. It is methods and objectives of this proselytizing ideology,along with its historical track record everywhere from India to Spain,which keeps me on my toes regarding dialogue with Muslims. Only worldwide religion which sanctions deception to further it's ends. Straight up, do you dispute this? So far, in addition to playing paddy cake, you've really only defended the current legal status quo in Belgium. Thank you, however, for providing a couple days of enjoyable post-work entertainment for myself and me pals. We're all just hoping to one day have a glimpse at some concrete examples of this "evidence to the contrary" that has been alluded to. Perhaps,in the future on another thread.

Kafir world
Does Islam practise deception to further its end's - Yes
Is it the only religion - No.
But any attempt to prov its not the 'only' religion will be met by, it has nothing to do with the topic at hand or other arguments. So yes i dispute your statement as it stands.
Yep i have been entertained as well.

Borg
"I've been here for several years "
Explains why your IQ level has sharply fallen.
"I will ignore your future ramblings"
Oh woe, what a great loss!

"Does Islam further deception to further its end's?-Yes
"Is it the only religion-No"

Perhaps you can enlighten us sir/mam as to what other religion sanctions deception?