The date which will live in infamy

Still waiting for proof Islam has been hijacked by terrorist.

Each and every word that Robert has uttered in that piece is absolutely true and accurate.

That is what makes it all the more disheartening.

It seems inevitable that the US must endure another day of infamy to break the status quo that we in the West are suffocating under.

It appears to me to be a systemically evil cult, not a real religion.

Academia Watch on 9/11:

People, this columnist calls President Bush a Terrorist at the end of the column.

http://media.www.lsureveille.com/media/storage/paper868/news/2007/09/11/Opinion/Feelings.On.Bush.Change.As.War.On.Terror.Drags.On-2960578.shtml

The challenge to our civilization, so succintly and articulately stated ... why don't more people get it?

The only "phobes" are the muslims, afraid of democracy, afraid of womens rights, afraid of dissenting views of their religion, afraid of cartoons, and best of all, afraid of John Doe's.

"American Muslim advocacy groups have made it impossible to take such a stand by adopting a spurious victim status that has enabled them to claim -- and enabled the claim to be accepted -- that sensible anti-jihad measures and investigations are "anti-Muslim."

The Goebbels (Sudetenland style) emphasis on the importance of positioning one's group (Nazi style)as "victim" is well payed by these advocacy groups. They pull the "racism" crap in really ethnically pluralistic societies (USA, e.g.) .

However, if one looks at Muslim dominated societies (especially Arabs) one is struck by the lack of ethnic diversity in those societies. Arabs, for example, would never tolerate large numbers of non-Arabs in their societies (Negro Africans, Mexicans, Irish, etc.-especially Irish-LOL.) It is ironic that people (especially Arabs) who are from generally ethnically homogeneous societies, societies that really persecute other ethnic groups (Saudi Arabia, e.g.) should be accusing the ethnically diverse USA of "racism". The whole thing (like so much of Islam) is a fraud, especially on race/ethnicity/diversity. It's a scam.

It is ironic that Muslims probably have more contact with other Muslims from different ethnic groups (especiallly Arabs)in the USA than they have in Muslim countries. (Can folks imagine a million Somalis being let into Saudi Arabia?) There is much more real separation based on race/ethnicity in the Muslim world than there is in the USA or in other Western countries for that matter.

This "victim" crap is right out of Goebbels propaganda recommendations and is a fraud. At its core, Islam is the engine of Arab Imperialism and in practice it is far more racist than other religions (especially among the Arabs). Everything with this belief system is tainted with deception and self-deception.

Don't hold your breath about the U.N. or the general liberalized public waking up and seeing beyond the banal rhetoric of Taqiyya & Kitman inc...

If over 9,000 acts of terrorism in the name of Islam
since 9/11 worldwide cannot slap them into reality, nothing will short of Sharia & Dhimmi will...maybe.

Frank - would you mind reading the link I posted above and comment on the article, esp. the conclusion calling Bush a Terrorist? You know I value your take on things. --Darcy

Darcy, I remember being just outta college, I actually protested Bush1 when he ran against Clinton (whom I didn't vote for). 1 problem, the crowd that was protesting Bush about his war for oil, I was protesting because he didn't finish the job in Iraq, although I still had some pretty wacky lib viewpoints. Anyway, ya gotta hope that people reading this kids blog understand that he is just a puppeting what he hears @ school.

The truth folks is that Islam from ITS BEGININGS has been at war with the Jewish/Christian faiths in a special way as well as the west in general. What happened 6 years ago today, starting at 8:46 AM that warm and sunshine filled day, which turned into a scene of horror is simply another battle in this long, very long war. We must NEVER forget and remember FREEDOM IS NEVER FREE!

If we are going to neutralize islam in the future (at least in terms of its potential to harm the West,) we have to really categorize and lable it as a political entity and not a religion.

Islam must be looked at and dealt with the same attitude as nazism and communism were/are dealt with.

If we continue to label islam as a religion, our constitution will not allow us to eradicate this threat.

It is imperitive that we change our attitudes toward islam and not grant it the moral equivalence attained by Christianity and Judaism.

Thnaks for your input, americanmadestrat

"Invading a country across the world is terrorism. And Bush gave the command to commence the invasion".

So what does that make him?

Darcy-

Sometimes war is the answer. Was FDR a terrorist for responding to the Nazi threat? I guess Hitler might have thought so.

This whole "religion" is so prone to deception and self-deception. Muslim societies (especially Arabs) are not ethnically diverse, not pluralistic, do not tolerate large numbers (especially among Arabs) of different ethnic groups or cultural pluralism. Is that a threat? You bet it is a threat. Islam in practice is very apartheid re race and ethnicity among Muslims(less so in the USA or Western societies), as well as being supremacist on matters of belief. The more one analyses it, the more one is struck by the warped perceptions that come from its mandates to deception.

It is cold bagels, dear. This belief system in practice is racist and supremacist (especially with Arabs).

I found this on Michael Savages site

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,504828,00.html

one has to wonder if this is how Detroit, or parts of Brooklyn will be soon. I know ya gotta keep yo wits in certain parts Brooklyn.

Frank, so I guess along with FDR, Wilson and Trueman were also "Terrorists?"

Folks, Islam is simply a CULT wearing the robes of being a religion, which in truth not only worships a moon-rock in Mecca, but also Muhammed. Proof to this is last year's angry outburst over a group of 12 cartoons of Muhammed coming from Denmark. Thanks to websites such as JW/DW and many others, the truth about Islam is now coming out.

Shana Tova!

Something to crack you up:

3 new songs from sheik yer'mami, download now before they're gone. Don't tell anybody, you Islamophobes!

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/09/11/test-mp3/

Over at the Gates of Vienna they speak of the E.U.’s 9/11 observance.

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/09/arrests-in-brussels.html#readfurther

Guess the Poloticians aren’t satisfied with just being dhimmis themselves, They want to force it on others.

So powerful is the FEAR of our fey Leftists in regards to the horror at the heart of the Islamist belief system, that they create and adhere to the most bizarre conspiracy theories over what hits them over the head with a hammer each day. Today the cockroach OBL delivered a message once again admitting his perpetration of 9/11, even presenting the last statement of one of the bombers, and STILL. How long before they begin to buy some of the other big lies, such as the Holocaust Hoax theory. These people are like children. The Kumbaya vision of the future that allows them to get out of the fetal position each morning is crumbling before their eyes, and they scramble for each new cultural mendacity with urgent panic. Disgusting.

Beg pardon, "Truman," lol

americanmadestrat,

It does suprise me that a Jewish rabbi was stabbed. This is IMHO, one of the bitter fruits of Islam. As I always said, Islam is the ROOT, terrorism, oppression is the FRUITS.

JohnAdams,

"So powerful is the FEAR of our fey Leftists in regards to the horror at the heart of the Islamist belief system, that they create and adhere to the most bizarre conspiracy theories over what hits them over the head with a hammer each day. Today the cockroach OBL delivered a message once again admitting his perpetration of 9/11, even presenting the last statement of one of the bombers, and STILL. How long before they begin to buy some of the other big lies, such as the Holocaust Hoax theory. These people are like children. The Kumbaya vision of the future that allows them to get out of the fetal position each morning is crumbling before their eyes, and they scramble for each new cultural mendacity with urgent panic. Disgusting."

The sad truth is that it is going to have to take another horrible attack or attacks on the USA to force these fools to change their minds. Even then I am just not sure.

"Unless we begin to speak clearly about what we are facing and who is making us face it, the jihadists will continue, as they do now, to take advantage of our willful ignorance."

I agree with your sentiment entirely. However, rather than shaking our fists at Islamic fundamentalism generally, I believe we must focus on those most responsible for 9/11:

www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com

Take down the Wahhabis and their petrodollar cash machine, and the rest will follow.

Darcy,

This was a sickening article. (And a poorly written one, as well, for a college student.) This kid is just an Amazon Grey parrot. He immitates what he hears, as americanmadestrat observes. He doesn't have any real ideas of his own.

It's incredible that he blames the President for the way he handled the crisis, yet never mentions the nineteen crazed, "Allahu Akbar" screaming Mohammedans who brought three of those four planes in to kill thousands of people in one blow.

He doesn't mention the courage of the passengers and crew of United 93, either.

Nor does he mention the dancing-in-the-streets Muhammedan reaction to the tragedy. Hmm... Dancing-in-the-streets reaction, vs Presidential reaction. He's a whackjob, but I'll still go with Bush's reaction to the terror on visited on our nation on 9/11 2001, thank you.

"Unless we begin to speak clearly about what we are facing and who is making us face it, the jihadists will continue, as they do now, to take advantage of our willful ignorance."

I agree with your sentiment entirely. However, rather than shaking our fists at Islamic fundamentalism generally, I believe we must focus on those most responsible for 9/11:

www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com

Take down the Wahhabis and their petrodollar cash machine, and the rest will follow.

"Unless we begin to speak clearly about what we are facing and who is making us face it, the jihadists will continue, as they do now, to take advantage of our willful ignorance."

I agree with your sentiment entirely. However, rather than shaking our fists at Islamic fundamentalism generally, I believe we must focus on those most responsible for 9/11:

www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com

Take down the Wahhabis and their petrodollar cash machine, and the rest will follow.

6 years downstream from 9/11 and our "leaders" have done nothing to identify the ideology that spawned the attacks .

In-fact they continue to deflect and deny the source of the attack ,authentic Islamic scripture,The Quran makes it clear , none muslims are not innocent and they must be killed for their sin of disbelief.

It is to late for a peacful resolution with the government's failure to deal with the Islamic issue , but it is to early to line them up and shoot them.

At some point those who know the truth and want to survive and have a culture to pass on will have to form a new government that values truth .

One of the best things to come out of this conflict will be, the return of common sense. Walt Whitman said that Common Sense was genius in overalls. I think that he captured the essence of the feeling. I wear overalls very often.

Another thing that will come, will be the end of Multiculturalism. Citizens of the America will wake up and realize that it's pretty good here. Just think in other cultures its accepted to scrape off the lips of the vagina. How about scraping off a few penis's also. That would put a real end to things.(I really didn't mean that as a pun. It just worked out that way.)

I believe that as we close the borders up and go back to work, we will find that there is no truth to the statement, "There is just work Americans won't do." I believe that statement is a half-truth at best. Americans have the hardest working society in the world. We work more hours than the rest of the world. This is why we have the greatest country in the world. The rest of the world knows it too. They are too lazy to work but have so much time to hate us.

Well its the anniversary of 9/11, and I've got a full tank of gas. Come out Ben Laden wherever you are.

Don't worry, guys. At the Muslim Day Parade in NYC on Sunday, the Muslims said a prayer for peace before the parade started and for violence to end.
Don'tcha feel better already?

I think it's time to turn this in-your-face rhetoric from Muslims (a Muslim Day Parade two days before 9/11? Hello? Anybody home?) around on them and slam it right back in their faces. As they tell us they'll do as they please in our country to take over our country and tell us to go fuck ourselves if we don't like it, I say our response needs to be a big 2 x 4 up the side of their collective Muslim heads. No more special treatment, no more buying into their whining about Islamophobia. We are at war and in a war we are allowed to be and supposed to be, NOT NICE! If Muslims want to play this game, we'll play it right back. No more being friendly towards Muslims in public as they smile their taqiyah smiles and wait until we turn around to stab us in the back. Any programs for "understanding" of Islam in the public school system need to be thrown out immediately. Find a gas station that isn't owned by a Muslim and frequent it and encourage your friends and family members to do the same. Point out to the bleeding hearts who cry "rascism" that they are supporting the funding of terrorism with every fill up.

We are still the majority and we pay the majority of the taxes. We need to organize so that if 1000 Muslims show up to demonstrate on the streets of our cities, 5000 of us show up to counteract their bullshit. Somebody recently said how about another Million Man March on Washington? How about a Million + Patriot March on Washington? Remember, the Muslims are still having lots of sex and lots of kids so if we wait twenty more years it's just going to be that much harder to take our country back. Let's do it now.

Don't worry, guys. At the Muslim Day Parade in NYC on Sunday, the Muslims said a prayer for peace before the parade started and for violence to end.
Don'tcha feel better already?

I think it's time to turn this in-your-face rhetoric from Muslims (a Muslim Day Parade two days before 9/11? Hello? Anybody home?) around on them and slam it right back in their faces. As they tell us they'll do as they please in our country to take over our country and tell us to go fuck ourselves if we don't like it, I say our response needs to be a big 2 x 4 up the side of their collective Muslim heads. No more special treatment, no more buying into their whining about Islamophobia. We are at war and in a war we are allowed to be and supposed to be, NOT NICE! If Muslims want to play this game, we'll play it right back. No more being friendly towards Muslims in public as they smile their taqiyah smiles and wait until we turn around to stab us in the back. Any programs for "understanding" of Islam in the public school system need to be thrown out immediately. Find a gas station that isn't owned by a Muslim and frequent it and encourage your friends and family members to do the same. Point out to the bleeding hearts who cry "racism" that they are supporting the funding of terrorism with every fill up.

We are still the majority and we pay the majority of the taxes. We need to organize so that if 1000 Muslims show up to demonstrate on the streets of our cities, 5000 of us show up to counteract their bullshit. Somebody recently said how about another Million Man March on Washington? How about a Million + Patriot March on Washington? Remember, the Muslims are still having lots of sex and lots of kids so if we wait twenty more years it's just going to be that much harder to take our country back. Let's do it now.

Link for the 9000 statistic should be: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now it has been six years. The global jihad proceeds apace, with well over 9,000 deadly attacks carried out in the course of those six years by believers in the proposition that "Islam must dominate, and not be dominated." Yet we are no closer as a society to recognizing how exactly to combat this foe,. . .

Generally speaking , truer words cannot be said.

On a more personal level, the intellectual journey Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald have taken me since that day six years ago has had an enormous impact. As a direct result of what I have gained from several years of reading JW/DW, my family and I are better prepared for what struggles may lie ahead in our future.

To recognize this monumental effort undertaken by JihadWatch and DhimmiWatch, today is a perfect day to hit the tip jar and $ay thank you to Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald and staff.

NEVER FORGET. NEVER FORGIVE. NEVER SUBMIT.

“Lan astaslem.” (in Arabic it means “I will not surrender/I will not submit.” )

As coined by ala-sux -

No Islam - Know Peace

Know Islam - No Peace

Harsh times call for harsh measures.

KAOSKTRL, you lament that our leaders have done nothing. Oh, but look at all they have done! This ridiculous charade played out in airports, the PC police trying not to offend muslims, the premise that a few people hijacked a peaceful religion. They have actually made this situation WORSE by refusing to face reality.

We know who the enemy is... have the guts to say it and tell the enemy what we'll do about it.

Bush is trying to hold his coalition of the willing together by sitting on a fence and it's never worked. We are a superpower. We'll take the hearts and minds of anybody still breathing when it's over.

"Six years after, the fact that such elementary common sense is not taken for granted, but reviled and dismissed, does not bode well for the continuation of this conflict, as continue it surely will. Unless we begin to speak clearly about what we are facing and who is making us face it, the jihadists will continue, as they do now, to take advantage of our willful ignorance."

And in these zix years, Bush administration has dome more harm than good for USofA. At times, blatently attacking American national security by prosecuting Borser Patrol agents, criticizing patriotic Munutemen and here is the kicker: Increasing student's visas to Saudis. Square that against 9/11 hijackers and one shakes one's head in disbelief.

Six years, 9,000-plus attacks. Over 1500 attacks per year, more than four terrorist attacks every day of the year on the average.

Can you believe it?

Besides the lives lost and damage to properties, think of the financial cost and curtailments of freedom.

A greater intrusion of the government in to our lives and a lessening of civil society.

What will the next six years bring?

Robert,
The Religion of Peace link doesn't work. Perhaps too much traffic.

Bush is trying to hold his coalition of the willing together by sitting on a fence and it's never worked. We are a superpower. We'll take the hearts and minds of anybody still breathing when it's over.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at September 11, 2007 9:44 AM

Sorry CapitalistGig, but facts show that Bush has been working more for the terorrist masters in Riyadh. Look at this:
- Helping Bin Ladens fly to safety.
- Stalling 9/11 commission.
- Removing refernces to Saudi Arabia from 9/11 interim report.
- Throwing Iftaar dinners.
- CAIR mandated sensitivity training to FBI.
- Hiring Karen Hughes to appease to muslims.
- Parrot 'Islam is peace'.
- Making sure borders are open and vulnerable.
- Criticizing patriotic minutemen.
- Increased aid and arms to Pakistan.
- Dubai port deal.
- Increased arms to Saudi Arabia.
- Increased student's visas to Saudis.
All of the above, while running a phony 'war on terror' with Saudi Arabia, the father and Pakistan, the mother, of 9/11. No wonder 'war on terror' is defeating itself. In a sane world, Bush would have been impeached, tried and punished for treason.
Only clear-thinking patriot like Tom Tancredo can bring any hope back to USofA: http://www.teamtancredo.typepad.com

A few days ago i posted comments on the proposed then banned demonstration on islamization of Europe. There is a good description of the situation in the URL below. I strongly urge people to read it. Sorry, I don't know how to paste it.

www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2394

George Bush set the stage when he declared Islam a religion of peace that has been merely hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists. Those words will haunt us for generations. He has been representing his oil soaked backers ever since. I now believe that the invasion of Iraq was personal - it was payback for the attempted assassination of daddy when he visited Kuwait. I don't know whose interests Bush is representing, but it certaily doesn't seem to be ours.

AND

I find it very significant and a bad omen that a Mohammedan convert has been elected to the US congress.

This fighting will not end until humans give up the irrational beliefs in the supernatural, that voices carry sacred words, that discrimination is endorsed by ancient unauthenticated text and that the intelligent scientific thinking mind has subjugated the emotional inferior minds of those who practice religion of any kind.

It's a disease of the religious lineage.

With religion there are no moderates there are only those who are extremists and those who endorse such behavior. Doesn't matter the religion, even the posts on this website concur to the fact that its "us" vs."them" mentality.

All religion seeks to discriminate, to impose how others should think and live, demand special privilege and destroy the thinking mind and replace it with supernatural ideology.

Islam killing in the name of their religion is no different than Christians doing the same thing. Both texts provide plenty of "call to arms" motivations toward the non-believers.

If you're a Christian and you deny this, then you've never read your bible.

I hope Freddy Thielemans, the mayor of Brussels, is made tp pay for kissig Islamic A**. In USofA, Bush should be impeached for his response to 9/11 and treason, thereafter.

Thanks, old fogey.

We've done a lot.

We've spent $880 billion -- more than the total cost of all the wars, save World War II, that the United States has ever fought.

In Iraq we have built schools, hospitals, roads, protected oilfields and repaired those that are damaged. We have handed out packets of money, stacked high on pallets, handed out like confetti ("I can't believe we are paying these people not to shoot at us" as one soldier was quoted in Thbe Washington Times"). It was not enough, you see, to assure ourselves that Saddam Hussein did not possess weapons of mass destruction or programs that were close to manufacturing such weaponry (the Americans did not realize that his intent was to fool Iran, not the United States, that he did possess such weapons -- and apparently still don't realize that). Is Iraq now, in the scheme of things, less or more likely to be, as it is now in the Shi'a thrall -- the thrall of Maliki and the greatly-misunderstood Al-Sistani (see "Mugged by Reality" by John Agresto) -- a force for "secularism" or a force where both kinds of Islam, Sunni and Shi'a, have been given a boost at the expense of the secularism that was, admittedly, thin but at least permitted, for reasons having to do with the political calculations of the outnumbered Sunnis who ruled over Iraq, allowed to develop though not encouraged as, for example, it was encouraged by Ataturk or the Shah of Iran.

We have decided that it is we, the Infidels, and not the rich Arabs, who should be paying for the "rebuilding" or "reconstruction" of Iraq. Why is not clear. Why the Saudis have not been asked to contribute 200 billion dollars -- that's mad money to them -- if they wish the Americans to prevent Iraq from descending into "chaos" by remaining, at this point, essentially to help the Sunnis (the Shi'a already have won, and it is now only a matter of seeing just how many of their gains they can keep, despite American pressure) --is entirely unclear. But when did the United States ever ask anything of its Arab allies? It asks only to be allowed to keep the region safe and sound so that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the Emirates, Qatar, and others can continue to sell oil and make money, and use much of that money to pay for mosques, madrasas, Tablighi al Jamaat, Hizb ut Tahrir, armies of Western hirelings, and "allow" the Americans to defend them, their regimes, their rulers, while the Americans keep thinking they are "protecting the oil."

The American government has been played for a sucker. At the very least, it should ask itself why it has chosen to spend close to a trillion dollars to "protect the oil" on which such likely antagonists as China also depend? Why is America "protecting the oil" and spending all that money, and save for Britain (and to a much lesser extent Italy), there have been a few dozen or a few hundred troops from other places, sent for purely symbolic reasons at the request of the Americans)? Should American taxpayers be bearing every burden, paying every price, in order to defend not "freedom" but access to oil that China, inter alios, needs as much or more than we do? Why?

What will be the effect of all the building doing on, thanks to the Americans and other NATO forces, in Afghanistan? Who will use those roads that are being built, to connect one part of Afghanistan to another? Will it be people intent always on peaceful commerce, or will it be the Taliban or other Muslim groups? What will be the effect of making it easier for Afghans to travel to Pakistan, or Pakistanis to Afghanistan? Will those schools being built (not the ones for girls -- they are being burned down faster than they can be built) teach illiterate Afghanis to read and write so that they will read Jefferson and John Stuart Mill, or is it more likely that they will be reading Islamic propaganda? When we provide that electricity, that allows for those televisions, or spread those computers and access to the Internet around, what will Afghanis watch, what will they learn, how will this improve the safety of Americans and other Infidels?

Yes, and the government has had some success in arresting, here and there, this or that person who was determined to engage in violent Jihad. But what has been done, in the United States or, more importantly at this point, in Western Europe, to staunch the flow of Muslim migrants, to reverse that flow, and to make the campaigns of Da'wa more difficult, to define them as a threat, as of course they are, to the legal and political institutions of the Infidel nation-states, all of them, and a threat to the physical security of Infidels, because a convinced Muslim convert is likely to be far more effective, in his or her propaganda efforts, and far more likely to be a True Believer, than those who are simply born into Islam without choosing to do so.

Six years, not entirely, but largely, wasted becuase of the ignorance, confusion, timidity, and sheer sentimentalism of the so-called "leaders" of the Western world, with Bush and Blair in the lead. Six years in which the kind of information that ought to have been presented, in an act of mass dissemination, by the governments themselves, have been left to private greatly-underfunded websites. Six years of false authorities teling us what and how to think, "terrorism" experts, "Bin Laden" experts, the unrepentant "moderate-Muslims-are-the-solution" experts, e tutti quanti. And those are the good ones.

Six years.

Six years we remain unbowed on bended knee. Liberty lives. Stop the disease vector jihad.

God Bless America.

alert

I guess you didn't understand that I was not praising Bush. I could print a longer litany of his (and his advisors') delusions. He knows that Islam is not a peaceful religion. His administration has chosen to prosecute this war as a coalition-building exercise in legality.

Before this is over, we'll be in an all-out war against all islamic nations. Russia and China will not sit out. Israel will have to nuke or be nuked. Our real allies are few, and I think Bush fantasizes that they are many.

My son is 14 and he is learning to be a sniper. I know what is coming.

If I were a jihadist, I would be thrilled to know that so many Americans don't know or care what I am about to do to them.......it makes my job so easy, like taking candy from babies.

America is now suffering from an epidemic of national insanity, fostered by the left who simply want to run the country, no matter what else happens.

A vote for any democrat is a vote for an islamic America.

When I discovered that not only were the fathers of Europe doing nothing while their DAUGHTERS are being raped and treated as garbage but that they were busy hiding the numbers and who was doing the rapes I have ever since had serious doubts about the 'mental health' of the West.

The demonstration in Brussels is a horrific travesty.

It has shown how totalitarian Europe has become. The demonstrators have been beaten with batons, sprayed with water cannons, intimidated with dogs.

The EU government is no better than the Chinese government at Tienanmen Square.

Europe has lost its freedoms. Their governments are tyrants, pure and simple.

The Mayor of Brussels deserve the same end as Mussolini.

Six years ago this very day things change forever for all Americans. For me it devastated my computer business that relied heavily on European customers. I lost no one from the attacks, but I can tell you all that having 45% of your customer base lost because we could not ship for the few weeks after 9/11 utterly destroyed my business and most assuredly others.

No governmental agency bailed us out. No special loans were given to smooth over the losses. I spent three years more trying to recover and come to terms that my industry would never be the same. It never recovered. For this I hold my government and Islam accountable. I see billions of dollars spent. Billions more in largesse given. Not a word, deed or compensation given to help me. And then I see almost all in power give only lip service to our security, our future. For a few, profits continue while we allow Islam to silently invade our country, our civilization.

I cannot believe that those who profit from petrocapital can be so short sighted. The menace grows every day. It is changing everything we hold dear. Does Western Civilization really need Islam? Should we compromise our values to such an extent? I believe not. I know that many who come here feel the same.

I feel helpless. I see it all around me. Where I go for exercise, women exercise in hijab and nicab. Groups of young South Asian men with long beards lift weights. Where I shop Muslim men drag their pregnant hijabed wives towing several more children with them. The private Episcopal school where my children attend has ESL classes for the Saudi children that attend a Christian school. The Saudi students will not participate in functions they deem haraam creating an atmosphere of tension and discomfort for all.

These examples are only a small part of a larger scheme. A conspiracy it isn't... An all out assault is. An assault on our freedoms or western way of life. Our Judeo-Christian heritage. A civilization that has done so much for a world that would be so much less if European society had never existed. Western civilization has had its issues and problems. Many have died. Much has been exploited. But it should be known that Western Civilization has done more for the world and humanity than all other civilizations combined. We do not have to apologize to the rest of the world! Celebrate our good deeds. Don't fail your heritage with apologies and moral equivalences.

Islam has done little for the world. Every nation that is founded on Islamic precepts cannot feed itself, has little industry, creates nothing but negativity and is mired in backward civilization. Islam stifles the soul. Its precepts makes hypocrites of its practitioners. It has been said that productivity in Islamic countries is only 10% of the West. Saudi Arabia ranks below Spain in productivity. Without foreign slave labor the Arabian Peninsula would cease to function.

We see the Persian Gulf with its billions of barrels of petroleum, trillions of cubic feet of natural gas. Yet they do nothing, but build phallyic edifices and palm islands. Furthermore, they use the wealth to export the only thing they really know how to: they export their death cult as a cancerous threat to our way of life and fund Muslim immigration to the West.

What can we do? We can keep putting the word out. We can communicate our distress to our representatives. We resist the temptation to cower when called racist and bigot.

So here's my testament to September 11th. I pray for all the millions that have lost their lives to Islam. I hope we can contain the menace without destroying ourselves...

I personally disagree with some of the things you are saying about Bush. I'm not asking anyone to change their opinion of him, but I think that he's trying to do what he can do to help us. And just because that isn't working well doesn't mean it is his fault. If something goes wrong, everyone will automatically jump to blame the leaders, because everyone wants to blame someone. They'll say they weren't leading well enough. Well I have a question. If you were leading the country, do you think you would do much better? It's not easy. And Bush is trying, even though most of the country is slamming him and not supporting their leader.

I found this on Michael Savages site
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,504828,00.html
one has to wonder if this is how Detroit, or parts of Brooklyn will be soon. I know ya gotta keep yo wits in certain parts Brooklyn.
Posted by: americanmadestrat at September 11, 2007 8:59 AM

Savage once said Nasrallah "looks like a Jewish dentist from Queens".-LOL Maybe the answer here is for Arab guys (they are Semites) to have to dress like Jewish folks in Germany and the Jewish guys to dress as Arabs. That will take care of Muslim intolerance.

It has just become September 12th down here in OZ. I have spent the last 4 hours re-watching the docos of 9/11 on National Geographic channel with my husband.

My Verdict:
there was plenty of evidence years before it happened and no one joined the dots, in fact they didn't even try and in some cases were obstructed.

Several presidents bear responsibility - not just Bush.

The worst part to me is that things have become so much worse. Other posters have mentioned this. We are giving in to islam all over the west when in fact the opposite should have happened.

Our leaders, and I use the term loosely, go out of their way to avoid the words 'islam','koran', 'belief system','cause' in one sentence.

It is going to be harder and harder to win this war taking into account the concessions that have been made to muslims and also the damage that has been done by the left who hate our way of life so much that they feel they can excuse anything islam does.

It's time to find out who is against us and who is with us. If there are any moderate muslims I suggest governments have to pass a bill for these people to give them a chance to leave islam, swear stronger allegiance, or leave our countries.

I can't see any other way out of it.If they are genuinely moderate this shouldn't be a problem. Their left sympathizers can go with them.

Bin Laden and his followers must be laughing so much. This is going to be easier than they ever thought. Our countries are helping them more than they could hope for.

Take over Saudi Arabia, take over all the buildings and schools they have funded in the west. Kick them out of the west. Why should the US protect them? They are destroying us.

Re-educate our children:NOW!

Maybe all the US troops should return home and protect US soil. The way things look now we should implement the idea that charity begins at home.

I know this is drastic, and I know it is unlikely to happen, but till we take away the power of the saudis we haven't got a chance in hell.

If you were leading the country, do you think you would do much better?
--Amber

Amber, dear, a chimpanzee could do better.

btw, is it my turn to be President?

Bush is trying to hold his coalition of the willing together by sitting on a fence and it's never worked. We are a superpower. We'll take the hearts and minds of anybody still breathing when it's over.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at September 11, 2007 9:44 AM

CapitalistGig, I heard you and agree that Bush is responsible for a lot. What I do not agree with is "Bush is trying to hold his coalition of the willing together by sitting on a fence " part. Me thinks Bush is not sitting on the fence but is squarly in the blood-thirsty wahhabi/enemy camp. I mean, we disagree on the degree of Bush betrayal, not the basic premise.
Sorry but it is 9/11 and my blood is boiling.

Islam killing in the name of their religion is no different than Christians doing the same thing. Both texts provide plenty of "call to arms" motivations toward the non-believers.

If you're a Christian and you deny this, then you've never read your bible.
Posted by: scooternyc

Hey scooter,

Where, today, are Christians killing for their religion? Where today are Christians chopping people's heads off, flying planes into buildings and yellow "Jehavoah is Better!"? Where today are Christians knifing imams and other Mohamedans for the crime of not following Christ?

Where?
Where?
C'mon guy, back up your point!

Thanks for your comments, Abscedere. Did you make 'em on the article? "Sickening" is right.

I agree with Amber that the Bush bashing is often unfair. It seems that people who do that fail to see the limits and dangers a President has to contend with.

Secondly, you do no service to the enemy when you unfairly lambast the office of the Presidency. It only demonstrates how disunited America is.

As much as I wish the President would stop calling Islam a religion of peace, he could do WORSE.

Remember, the alternative was Gore or Kerry. Can you honestly say they would have been better?

Some of the comments made by some of you (and you know who you are) are uncalled for, downright malicious, and juvenile. You need to sit down and think about the limitations and protocols that one has to contend with when in office. With the rhetoric coming out of some of you, it's no great wonder that you'll never serve the public in that capacity.

Listen to the pols, reporters, and many other so called educated people and hear their words. They constantly use excuses such as everybody does it, now this was used when I was a kid. The difference, you would in those days hear stuff like that coming from a kid and an adult would tell them, if everybody jumped off of a bridge would you do it too? Now we have people and they might even be employed at the WSJ saying things that kids who didn’t know any better were saying 30 years ago. So why are we still sleeping? I say everyone who doesn’t have the mind of a child has been awakened already.

The kids among us have not, and there are very few parents out there to scold these foolish children for their behavior. As a matter of fact not only are misbehaving children being indulged by a segment of our society but it is ok to remain a child in your mind and still write for a major newspaper or be elected to congress. Sad, really sad. We have hit bottom imho and now we have nowhere left to go but up or under. No more kiddie nation, lets us adults take back it back and throw them out, scold them until they are too embarrassed ton show their faces, maybe they will be shocked, yes shocked into growing up. Hey it’s a dream I have what can I say?

If you were leading the country, do you think you would do much better? It's not easy. And Bush is trying, even though most of the country is slamming him and not supporting their leader.

Posted by: Amber at September 11, 2007 10:26 AM

Excuse me, but do you realize that Bush holds the most powerful office in the world? That he has the resources unlimited at his disposal? Had Bush been "trying", he would have done some, if not all of the following:
- Expelled diplomats from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan Egypt and Jordan.
- Recalled US diplomats from the above countries.
- Frozen assets of the above countries.
- Filed a law-suit in International court of justice.
- Stopped jazia to Egypt and Jordan.
- Put Pakistan on notice for harboring Bin Laden.
... to list a few.
Instead, what is did was quite the opposite (I have listed elsewhere). Bush was in wahhabbi pockets even before his "election" (conveniently decided in his brother's state). After becoming the presidenr/commander-in-chief, he has abused the office to undermine American security. Public office comes with a responsibility towards the constituents, not rich wahhabie "friends", for which, we the constituents, have payed with blood on 9/11.
The only way to correct this is by electing a patriotic American like Tom Tancredo: http://www.teamtancredo.typepad.com

You need to sit down and think about the limitations and protocols that one has to contend with when in office.
--atheling

I smell gas.

No scooter, you've never read the Bible. Your ignorance of Christianity and history only demonstrates how shallow your thought processes are.

Your call to ban all religions only demonstrates your prejudice and bigotry.

You're a perfect example of the failure of the American educational system which is controlled by self loathing Leftist bigots.

Ynkedoodl2:

Are you a Christian? If so, why not behave like one?

Shame on you.

"I personally disagree with some of the things you are saying about Bush. I'm not asking anyone to change their opinion of him, but I think that he's trying to do what he can do to help us. And just because that isn't working well doesn't mean it is his fault."
-- from a posting above

The notion is expressed above that we must support Bush because he is "trying to do what he can do to help us."

Bush has had six years to learn about Islam. Without knowing a thing, he apparently consulted a law professor from Ohio, whose own public pronouncements show that he knows almost nothing about Islam, and has misunderstood the little that he does know. Bush went about praising Islam as a religion of peace. He told us, without any basis for this, that the "vast majority" of Muslims were appalled by Bin Laden (they were not, and there are all those delirious celebrations, in Cairo and Riyadh and the West Bank and all over the Muslim world, to prove it, as well as the sudden popularity of "Osama" as a name for Muslim baby boys). He told us all kind of things about the "hijacking" of that marvellous "religiion." He insituted the custom -which must be ended by the next President -- of that Iftar dinner, to which he invited Arab diplomats whose real views of Infidels he could find out about, if he so wished, through a tutorial conducted by Wafa Sultan and Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, or thousands of other, unpublicized ex-Muslims in this country -- or for that matter, by Robert Spencer or others connected to this website.

He invaded Afghanistan. He invaded Iraq. He utterly ignored the Money Weapon, and Saudi Arabia as the chief bankroller of the world-wide Jihad (non-violent, for now, division). He proved himself willing, apparently, to allow all kinds of Arabs to buy all kinds of American companies. He proved himself utterly unwilling to do all kinds of things that might make the United States and, therefore, the world, less of a consumer of the oil and gas on which the Muslim states, and therefore the Jihad, so largely depend. He continued to allow Rice to prate about, and plan for, some "two-state solution" that shows he does not understand that the war by the Arabs and other Muslims is not a "nationalist" struggle by the recently-invented "Palestinian people" but a classc Jihad, albeit a Lesser Jihad (like the Lesser Jihad, say, of Pakistan in Kashmir), that can be contained, if Israel remains both overwhelmingly and obviously overwhelmingly, stronger, but not by further Israeli surrenders of land that would only whet, not sate, Arab and Muslim appetites.

He has failed to study up on Islam. He has failed, therefore, to identify the menace of Jihad. His constant emphasis on terrorism, and his complete inattention to all the other instruments of Jihad -- the Money Weapon, Da'wa, and demographic conquest -- show that he is not able to take things in, not able to understand what is going on.

How could he, really? He is not very intelligent. He is completely uneducated -- despite those Andover and Yale degrees. He knows little of history, and little indeed of American history, if he thinks that "Iraq" today can be likened, as he apparently does, and has convinced others in his Administration to believe or pretend to believe the same (Rice, Crocker, et al.) that the new "Iraq" will take time to develop and stabilize, just as the young American Republic took time, from war and then the Articles of Confederaton to the safe harbor of the Constitution.

He does not know this country's history. He does not know, or understand, the political and legal institutions of this country, or from what they slowly developed. Yet he presumes. And presumes.

And he does not know the history of Iraq. A year or two into the war, he still had difficulty comprehending that there were these differing sects -- the Sunnis and the Shi'a -- within Islam. One wonders if he yet has studied the kind of texts put up here (google "A Florilegium of Quotes"). One wonders if he knows the relations of Sunnis to Shi'a in eastern Saudi Arabia, in Bahrain, Kuwait, Lebanon, Pakistan. One wonders if he knows why the Kurdish desire for independnece, that is the desire and ability of a non-Arab Muslim people to throw off the Arab yoke, could weaken both Iran and Syria, and what's more, inspire Berbers in North Africa and even in France, in their apprehension of Islam as a vehicle for Arab cultural, linguistic, and political imperialism.

Given all that, so what if he, as you so loyally write, "is just trying to do what he can to help us"? By that logic, almost every leader in the Western world deserves support. Neville Chamberlain at Munich was only "trying to do what he" could "do to help [Great Britain]."

Good God.

If we continue to label islam as a religion, our constitution will not allow us to eradicate this threat.

Yep, this is the crux of the biscut as it were. As long as we (the West) continues to see Islam as only a religion, we are doomed. Our society holds religion to be above any critisism and by keeping with that we are unable to confront Islam and speak about it in a meaningful or constructive way. Our hands are tied, and without a coherent, reasoned and lively debate on this subject we cannot expect any change in direction. I am saddened and scared that the leaders in the "free" world will not understamd the nuanced and calculated effort Islam is projecting until the next 9-11. Hamtramack (sic), Michigan, San Diego, Kansas, et al are merely the beginnings of our own demise. As a wise and great man once said, (my Father), "Why are we going in this direction, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"
As for me, I say....air burst, with the fuse set at 1500 feet.

God Bless us all, were going to need it.

"Apostates of the world, Unite!"
"Stop Muslim immigration now"
"Islam, abusing women since 622AD"

Look, I don't mind being stupider than a chimp and wrong in most of your eyes. Yes, I understand that Bush has made mistakes. And those mistakes cannot be overlooked.
However many mistakes he has made, (and you may need to rethink your lists, some of them could be your personal opinions of what he should have done) opposing him won't change anything. I'm surprised that you are taking his mistakes and then saying they were done on purpose to help terrorists.
So you can all make your lists of everything he's done wrong, but I think that your being narrow-minded. For instance: how about thinking of some of the good things he's done? After all, he is our leader and should be given credit for the good things that have happened, not just the bad things.

Remember, the alternative was Gore or Kerry. Can you honestly say they would have been better?
--posted by atheling

Folks, anyone, anyone would have been better than the draft-dodging, ROTC-dodging, exam-skipping, former coke addict, former alcoholic, and thank God, soon-to-be-former president, the Idiot-in-Chief himself, the WAH-President, mission accomplished, self-serving ass clown, George Almighty, King George III ibn Bush, best friend that Osama Bin Laden could EVER have asked for. I mean the best.

(wall+head=banging!!!!!)

HIT THE ROAD GEORGE!

Vote for Tancredo! Let's get a real "conservative" in office.

"If you were leading the country, do you think you would do much better?"
-- from the same poster

Yes. And so could many others.

Someone, by the way, is running for President who would, I am sure, along with his running mate, do an excellent job, and not only in regard to Islam. Google "Elmo Tanner for President" or just click on the website www.newenglishreview.org and then on "Elmo Tanner for President." You won't be disappointed.

Campaign contributions are being accepted through that website.

Time to take off the gloves, ladies and gentlemen.
People will die ... unless the unerschrocken stand up and refuse to submit, refuse to die.

For instance: how about thinking of some of the good things he's done?
--amber

Like what? The housing collapse? The subprime mortgage meltdown? The looming recession? The collapse of the dollar? High energy prices (not going away, either)? The lack of energy leadership to reduce petrodollars to the Saudis? The influx of Saudis and Iraqis and other Mohamedans into our country? The Katrina response? The blocking of health insurance for children, because it "costs" too much? The recent request to congress for another 50 billion dollars for Iraq. The shamnesty that would have allowed into our country 12 million illegal immigrants, no questions asked.

The presidency of George Almighty Bush, that self-serving assclown will go down in INFAMY!!!!

Here are the "outtakes" from the latest Osama Bin Laden tapes ... it gets better after the Ipod bit. When Osama's wife shows up, it is funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZK5os5mUgA

Humour is the greatest weapon against Islam. Despots and despotic ideologies hate being mocked.

How do you know that President Bush knows little of American history, Hugh?

Have you discussed it with him?

My sincere condolences to all those who lost loved ones six years ago today. I'll never forget.

Yesterday as America watched David H. Petraeus, we all realized that occupying Iraq is Bush's plan to wait out the clock. America also realized, we aren't ahead, so waiting out the clock doesn't work for us. Many good comments above point this out in one way or another.

For those who want something done about "radical" Islam, e.g. stopping Iran's nuclear program and getting Pakistan to give up its nukes, we realized that Bush was going to do very little on Iran and nothing on Pakistan.

Those on the left also saw that Bush is doing a Ponzi scheme, he increases troops in Iraq and then withdraws from the increase to make it look like he is ending the occupation.

An update on the Red Crescent Memorial and some blogs and opinion on 9-11 6 years later as America behind and not ahead in this war is below. It also has a link to the leaked content of the 2003 Congressional report linking Saudi Arabia to 9-11 financing.

2007 9-11 Red Crescent Memorial Day

Our political class will only talk about one part of the problem at a time. Exceptions are Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter but even they can't openly say taking away Pakistan's nukes must be a priority. We have never faced a crisis in history where so few political leaders were willing to talk the real facts.

There seems to be a general depression around the internet today. We are a civilization in its twilight and we all know it, right, left and not paying attention.

Robert wrote:

"Yet we are no closer as a society to recognizing how exactly to combat this foe, and our responses flail wildly..."

"How do you know that President Bush knows little of American history... ?"
-- from a poster above

Anyone who, in defending his policy in Iraq and counseling yet more patience, more waiting, invokes the American past, and particularly the early years of that past, from the War for Independence (1776) through the Treaty of Paris (1783), , and then the first attempt to unite the colonies under the Articles of Confederation, and then the subsequent, more successful effort, with a much stronger central government, under the Constitution written in 1787, and who insists on making makes constant allusion to that American past and that American effort, as if "Iraq" and the people -- not "Iraqis" -- of "Iraq, a the way they think, and the political and intellectual and moral history of Iraq bears any relation to the young American Republic, is someone who does not know American history.

That's how I know. By their historical analogies shall ye know them, or at least ye can tke the measure, of their knowledge of American history. One would enjoy subjecting Bush, Rice, and all the others who keep talking about how much "time" it took to create the American Republic, to a little quiz on early American history, up to about 1800, the very period they keep invoking in their arguments for “staying” the self-defeating and wasteful “course” in Iraq. Essays on the influence of the political thought of Locke and Montesquieu on the Framers, or a comparison of Hamilton and Madison, or short-answer identifications of “John Peter Zenger” and “The Great Awakening” and “The Suffolk Resolves” and “The XYZ Affair” and “Shay’s Rebellion” and “The Stamp Act” and “George Mason” and “Philip Freneau” and not only “Kosciusczko” and “Lafayette” but also “Abbe Gregoire” and see how they do. Big readers of Morison and Commager, are they? Admirers of Bernard Bailyn and Michael Kammen? Old-fashioned students of Carl Becker and Charles Beard, perhaps? No. Just the usual run of those who rise high in Washington, and who love to prate about the Constitution, and the Framers, and know next to nothing about what it took.

Just take “Rice” or “Bush” along with “Iraq” and “American Constitution” and see what is summoned by rubbing google’s aladdin’s lamp a few times. You will be horrified. When Crocker spoke of a "secure, stable, democratic Iraq” in his opening remarks, and later on alluded to the time it had taken to create the United States of America, one had to rub one’s eyes but not in disbelief, because the American public has long been used to, is by now inured to, the invocation of such false analogies. No, one is rather, wiping the tears of laughter and despair at the idiocy of all this, of the crazed attempt to present the primitive mental and moral order of Iraq and those who run it, including one Nouri al=Maliki, an ally of the Islamic Republic of Iran even though he still insists on wearing a tie wears a tie, by this desperate Administration.

And what about that “achievable” goal of turning Iraq into a “secure, stable, demoracatic” country? Are we allowed to take just a teeny peek at history in judging whether this prediction is 1) very likely 2) somewhat likely 3) don’t be silly? Yes, I think we are so entitled. A decent respect for the lessons of history ought to be observed (say, where does that phrase “a decent respect” come from? It has a familiar ring. Could it be something in the Iraqi Constitution?) . So what does history, present and past, teach us? Well, the 57 member states of the Organization of Islamic Countries, is there a country to be found that could be described as “secure, stable, democratic”? When has there ever been, in the 1350-year history of Islam, a Muslim state that could reasonably be described as “secure, stable, democratic”?

History. I’d like to give those party-line praters in Washington a history lesson alright. I’d like to force every candidate, for any major political office, to learn some history, beginning with the highly instructive and inspiring history of the founding of the American Republic and its brilliantly constructed political and legal institutions, which we, the inheritors of that legacy, unworthy as we are, are still benefiting from, in so many ways both recognized and unrecognized. But perhaps not forever.

(PLEASE POST THIS ANNOUNCEMENT AT OTHER WEBSITES)

The U.S. Senate Project (an initiative to increase congressional awareness of the nature and goals of jihad) currently has 81 volunteers in 39 states.

WE ARE STILL SEEKING ADDITIONAL CITIZEN VOLUNTEERS FROM ALL 50 STATES, ESPECIALLY THE FOLLOWING 12:

Connecticut
Delaware
Hawaii
Kansas
Mississippi
Montana
North Dakota
Oklahoma
South Dakota
Vermont
West Virginia
Wyoming

THE PROJECT: We're looking for people in every state of the Union who would be willing to purchase, from Amazon or any other source, a copy of Robert Spencer's new book Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't and mail it, on an agreed upon date, to one of the senators in your state. We want to get the book simultaneously to all 100 senators, in order to send a strong message. If we get more than two people per state, books can also be sent to the U.S. House of Representatives.

IF YOU'D LIKE TO PARTICIPATE, PLEASE WRITE TO ME AT traehnam@yahoo.com UNDER THE SUBJECT HEADING “SENATE,” AND TELL ME THE STATE YOUR SENATOR REPRESENTS, AN EMAIL ADDRESS WHERE I CAN REACH YOU, AND A NICKNAME. No need for your real name. And I will never share your email address with anyone, not even with other volunteers for this project.

And visit jihadawareness.blogspot.com to get more info on this project and to leave comments other volunteers can read. You can also see there the growing list of participants in this project, and the states their senators represent. I've also designed a graphic that might amuse. Scroll down when you get to the site.

Once we have at least two people from every state, we can agree on a mailing date and then each of us can mail a copy of the book on that date.

Right before each of us mails the book, we can issue a press release to various media outlets in every state, and in that way announce and explain the mailing. And perhaps we can come up with some other ways of maximizing the effectiveness of this project and gaining as much positive attention as possible.

One of the project's volunteers suggested contacting Rep. Sue Myrick, who started the Anti-Jihad Caucus in Congress. I'll try to coordinate this project with Rep. Myrick to maximize its effectiveness. I've also been calling various congressional offices to get advice on how best to go about the project.

Amber wrote:

"So you can all make your lists of everything he's done wrong, but I think that your being narrow-minded. For instance: how about thinking of some of the good things he's done?"

Go ahead, Amber. Give us your opinion of the good things Bush has done. I'm all ears.

Zeno wrote:

" 'we are no closer as a society to recognizing how exactly to combat this foe, and our responses flail wildly' because Americans have had their brains destroyed by liberalism. Defeat liberalism and Islam will soon follow."

You must be referring to liberals like this one:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/ramadan/2006/

“That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.” - Aldous Huxley

Come on he has insitiuted the Islamification of America Program and opened the borders to all comers.

Atheling, you are damned right that some of us will never serve in office - only because we could never get elected. Nowadays in the US, to get elected one has to be all things to all people, and therefore be nothing to anybody. No candidate will be elected by telling the truth for fear of losing votes. Democrats have to move to the center and Republicans have to move to the left, at least until all the votes are counted. Tom Tancredo will never get beyond being a Representative because he knows the truth and states exactly what the problem is and how to solve it. On September 12, 2001, a suspension of habeas corpus would have gone a long way to show the American people exactly how dangerous the situation is. Bush dismissed the Federal prosecutors and served up Gonzales as a scapegoat.

Bush steered us away from the real problem by his insistance on the ROP mantra. He has allowed political correctness to seep into the Federal law enforcement branches because be wants to avoid the curse of being a profiler. Like all modern presidents, he considers his legacy is just as important as national security. Damn his legacy, because the future Mohammedan writers of American History will write what they want anyway.

I am with those here who admire President Bush. I certainly don't agree with him on several issues (such as the recent immigration bill, which was thankfully defeated, and his signing of McCain-Feingold) but I find him to be a good man (and I'm so sick of hearing that he is a liar) who has done his best to keep us safe since 9/11. No attacks on our homeland for six years is not just some kind of dumb luck or evidence of generosity on the part of radical Muslims. You have to really despise the President not to give him any credit for thwarting numerous followers of the world's most awful religion from harming us again here in the States. Also, the economy is quite good by almost any economic standard one wishes to invoke (thanks in part to Bush's tax cuts). The subprime mortgage mess is serious, but has been accompanied by a lot of hysteria which has made things temporarily worse than they really are. Besides, if certain lenders are greedy enough to loan money to people they shouldn't and certain borrowers are dumb enough to take a bad deal, this isn't Bush's fault.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan, yes, mistakes have been made but mistakes have been made in every war by the eventual victor, let alone the loser. Washington made numerous errors early on in the first years of the Revolution; Lincoln was witness to sundry blunders by many of his generals until he found Grant and Sherman; the mistakes made by America in WWII were all over the place, from the unnecessary slaughter of American soldiers at Tarawa, to losing some 700 men in a mere training exercise for D-Day, to being taken completely by surprise in December of 1944 in the Battle of the Bulge. But through it all, America prevailed, as it will in this present war we are in as long as the nation as a whole does not lose its will.

Nonetheless, I feel compelled to close here by stating that I have become convinced that it will be necessary for our politicians to begin openly expressing all kinds of doubts about the entire Islamic religion. It's no use pretending that there is a good Islam. There isn't. There is a passive Islam adhered to by many of Islam's followers but this is a very different thing-------and not nearly good enough. The fact of the matter is that Islam calls upon believers to subjugate the earth (no other religion does and one knows this or should know it) and there will always be enough "active" Muslims out there to try to make such subjugation a reality. The entire West, including our politicians, must take cognizance of this unfortunate and grim reality to truly prevail over the monstrosity which is the Islamic faith.

“That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.” - Aldous Huxley, quoted in a posting above

On September 7, 2007 at www.newenglishreview.org:

Put An Antic (Hay) Disposition On

Aldous Huxley, in a letter written from Tunisia in June 1925:

“How tremendously European one feels when one has seen these devils in their native muck! And to think that we are busily teaching them all the mechanical arts of peace and war which gave us, in the past, superiority over their numbers. In fifty years time, it seems to me, Europe can’t fail to be wiped out by these monsters.”

The timing so far is a little off, but….

[Hugh Fitzgerald]

Lincoln, Sherman, Grant...

In the same breath as George Bush?

World War II mistakes compared to Bush's Folly?

Oy vey, I'm gonna be sick.

Wellington-

Our rose colored glasses re Islam is similar to President Wilson with his rosy view of the post World War 1 world. Clemenceau had a stronger grasp of realty. Clemenceau said to Wilson (at the peace conference) re "making the world safe for democracy" and the League of Nations:


"....the only way to maintain peace is to remain strong ourselves and keep our past and potential enemies weak. No conceivable League of Nations can do that".-page 877, Samuel Morrison, the Oxford History of the American People

Atheling wrote: "Your call to ban all religions only demonstrates your prejudice and bigotry."

Scooternyc did not call for all religions to be banned. I would say you are casting your own pre-conceived notions of what anyone who dares to disagree with your theistic beliefs actually believes themselves. What he actually said, and I agree with, is that while certain humans insist on believing in non existent sky fairies that require them to live their lives 'just so', we will not progress.

I have read my bible and I do know what I am talking about (I would also wager that scooternyc has more than a passing knowledge of this 'divinely inspired book').

However I do disagree that Christianity is as much of a threat as Islam but it is all part of the same irrational belief system.

One last thing Atheling; before you accuse people of demonstrating 'prejudice and bigotry' you should stop and consider how those very same accusations can, justifiably, be levelled at Christianity - your faith.

O.K, (stop the bush bashing, geez I thought I was on the daily kos site, or something) here are some things that I found that Bush did right (these were very difficult to find, lol)...

1. the Creation of the USA Freedom Corps
2. $15 Billion Over Five Years To fight AIDS in Africa
3. $1.2 Billion to fight Malaria in Africa
4. ACF Compassion Capital Fund
5. Prisoner Re-entry initiative
6. Access to Recovery Grants
7. No Child Left Behind
8. $110 Billion To Gulf Coast recovery
9. Implemented Tax Cuts to spur economy
10. Overthrew a brutal dictator in Iraq
11.On May 24, 2006, the United States House and Senate passed the Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act, which President Bush signed five days later. The act bans protests within 300 feet of national cemeteries — which numbered 122 when the bill was signed — from an hour before a funeral to an hour after it. Violators face up to a $100,000 fine and up to a year in prison.
12. Signed the partial-birth abortion ban into law.
13. Provided much needed funding for the military.
14. Severely damaged the Al-qaeda network.
15. patriot act
16. got north korea to disable their nuke program.
17. tax cuts.

Now lets take a moment of silence for the fallen heros of 9/11.

Well I'm not sure what the hell number 5 is, but it doesn't look good. I got these off the internet, so don't flame me, lol.

Ynkedoodl2, yes mistakes have been made in the past by American leaders and Generals -

Here are some more -

WW2 Invasion of Peleleiu, Battles of Aachen and Hurtgen Forest - unnecessary battles.

Civil War Fedricksberg - terrible Union losses in a suicidal attack against heavily fortified Confederate lines.

As for Tarawa, I have not read many historians who question the actual need to take Tarawa. It was bloody becuse the landings were so hotly contested, unlike the landings on Guadalcanal.

The problems encountered and the mistakes made at Tarawa were corrected in later landings. Does our current leadership have the wherewithall to learn anew?

The day will probably come when we have to fight in the streets of this country. When it does, there will be people who will blame this country, say we deserve it, and side with our enemies.

Elricc, are you out there? We need your speech about the fifth column...

The media and the 'educators' in this country have brought us to this point. The average American is so distracted and uninformed that Islamists have it made.

Ynkedoodl2, I appreciate your request for information. I always appreciate those that disagree with me for it gives us foundation for an open discussion about these issues.

The following are excerpts from the bible, which are the “call to arms” for Christians to kill those who are non-believers. Your comment only reflects, not that these statements aren’t in the bible, but that you are not “acting” on them at this point in time; place and time are irrelevant as the bible is considered the "truth".

Further, I have attached a link to a recent video that was done where several prominent religious and political figures are encouraging and hoping for Armageddon.

Well, do tell us exactly, according to your written scripture, how else Armageddon is going to be thrust upon us?

Yes, it’s through various forms of death, war and destruction.

Christians speak of the “truth” and they glean that “truth” from their bible, often quoted to support anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, et.al.

Either your bible is the unalterable word of god or it is not.

If it is the unalterable word of god, then these statements should be considered valid as any others that are quoted; you cannot cherry pick these aspects, this would only further evidence of selective discrimination.

If these statements are to be taken literally, then indeed, Christianity should be considered just as dogmatic and dangerous as Islam, for killing those who do not believe is your god’s word to action, call to arms.

If they are not, then religion and your bible are irrelevant in any discussion as it is further evidence that religion is man-made, purely subjective emblazened with inflamatory opinion and is not the Rule of Law by which our United States is governed.

In addition, until Christianity is able to reach this holy war they will continue to attempt to indoctrinate our children through the false ideas of Intelligent Design as their immediate "call to arms" thus attempting to halt scientific progress, as Islam did through Imam Hamid al-Ghazali when he deemed mathematics as evil and halted progress for Muslims. They now live in ignorance as Christianity would have the United States if left unattended by those of other faiths and no faith at all.

“Kill those who are not Christian or Jewish:
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10
Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16
Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7
Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13
Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20
Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11
Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

Judge other religions for not following Christ:
Whoever denies, “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22
Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7
Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12
False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

Here are my two personal favorites:
Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10
A Christian cannot be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33”

And have a watch while Tom Delay and others want us to bring on Armageddon and are looking forward to it:

http://www.wvcsr.org/

click on Rapture Ready by Max Blumenthal.

scooternyc wrote:

"Either your bible is the unalterable word of god or it is not."

It is not, hence the title of "testaments" attributed to both the old and the new. They were the written words of men, so your point is moot.

The book that is considered the ualterable word of God is the Qur'an. You would think by now scooter that you would know and could grasp that rudimentary difference.

scooternyc wrote:

"This fighting will not end until humans give up the irrational beliefs in the supernatural,"

Memo to you scooter: the fighting will not end even if the near absolutely implausible abandonment of all religious faith by approximately 85% of the entire world population occurs.

Your contribution is less than valueless. You offer no solution to the imminent global Islamic threat but rather, would like to jump ahead for a global embrace of the atheistic principle? That's some sound advice there, for sure.

Go watch the beginning of 2001: A Space Odyssey or watch it again, if you have already done so, to learn a little bit about the nature of man. Take a look at the animalistic relationships in natural world itself, devoid of deity worship. Read Golding's "Lord of the Flies" for further examples of deterioration of moral social values when man is left unchecked and to their own devices.

None of those examples of conflict have faith as a foundation, yet you presume to sit here and proclaim that abandonment of all faith will solve all the world's ills? Laughable, on top of impossible to achieve.

scooter also wrote:

"Islam killing in the name of their religion is no different than Christians doing the same thing. Both texts provide plenty of "call to arms" motivations toward the non-believers."

Ahhh yes, scooter's obligatory, religious moral equivalency argument. Scooter of course, can not back up that statement with any recent relative examples as such. As I personally have pointed out to him more than once previously, rarely, if ever, has anyone needed to read Robert's latest book more than scooter. Actually, any reading by him outside of Hitchens will do at this point.

Another memo to "scooter": On that bike of your's son, please move along and spare us all from any more of your troglodytical ramblings.

Wellington:

You say you are sick of hearing that bush is a liar. I will tell you why I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth, except, perhaps, when he says that he believes that islam is a ROP. when Congress was debating the prescription drug plan, his administration directed OMB officials to lowball their estimates of the cost of the new entitlement in their testimony before Congress. Why? because the adminstration wanted that program and was afraid that Congress might balk if OMB presented their actual estimates, which were much higher. As far as I'm concerned, sending officials of the executive branch up to Capital Hill to lie to Congress is a subversion of the democratic process & absolutely inexcusable.

You also believe that he has done his best since 9/11 to keep us safe. I don't see how any reasonable person can hold that belief. If we are facing an enemy that wants to destroy us -- as I'm sure we agree we are -- how in God's name can bush continue to leave our borders virtually unprotected? the most plausible explanation is that bush believes that cheap, illegal labor is more important & profitable to the American economy (read corporations) than guarding against infiltration by terrorists.

You also compare the mistakes bush has made in iraq to the many mistakes made in previous wars, most notably WWII. that comparison is not valid. Yes, there was the occasional tactical mistake made in WWII. But the war strategy was absolutely sound, which made it possible to recover from these tactical mistakes & move forward to victory. Continuing the iraq war in order to bring freedom & democracy to iraq is bad strategy, & no amount of temporary progress, such as the "surge," will save the strategy from failure.

I can't believe we're having a freaking chat about Christianity on 9/11.

As one who was working at the State Dept on 9/11/2001 and watched the black smoke pour from the Pentagon just across the Potomac and struggled through the traffic and chaos on the streets to get a Metro ride home to the suburbs of Virginia, I find everyone's comments interesting, thought provoking and annoying in some cases.

There is talk here about how President Bush or anyone else in his shoes could have just walked into the State Dept on 9/12, and fired every Arabist and anti-semite employed by that huge bureacracy. Doesn't work that way in this country in spite of all the rhetoric that we have somehow become a less free and fascist society. Some of us seem to forget that Congress has some say in who a President appoints to his Cabinet. Or how we should just develop our own sources of oil and other fuels. Great idea, but Congress hasn't exactly been cooperating with this Administration on ANWR, off shore oil drilling, etc. I'm not defending President Bush, although I seriously doubt that the state of this country six years after 9/11 would be any different if it was President Fill-in-the-Blank. It's that pesky three branches of government thing that tends to complicate politics. Just look at the "detainess" at Gitmo and all their legal maneuverings. Guess Bush should have fired the Supreme Court, too, after 9/11.

I am disappointed that in this age of the Internet, websites like JW, etc., that so few of my fellow citizens are more interested in Paris Hilton, professional sports and American Idol that their own history and cannot comprehend most things without some talking head having to read the news to them. I do not need President Bush or anyother President reagrdless of party telling me what to think. I can read and think on my own. Most are too indifferent, lazy or self absorbed to make any effort on their own. They should lose their right to vote.

And I would hope that someday on another anniversary of 9/11 that the news media would interview a survivor or family member of one of the murdered and say loudly into the camera, that I/we do not grieve for my dead family member, but that we actively seek the death and destruction of all those who perpetrated this heinous act of barbarity. Forget the candle lighting ceremonies and hand holding. ThatI/we seek vengeance with or without my country's support.

One can dislike Bush and marshall the reasons for that dislike.

But if one hates Bush, the source of the emotion has to be based in pathology. A lot of sick puppies out there.

History will be a kinder judge of this person who has the resolve to fight when the liberals cry for appeasement and surrender.

The liberals will screw you evey chance they get as they are deficient of honour, morals, and character.

They cannot be trusted in this defence against fundamental islam. They will not allow for understanding, a ultimately victory, which is mandatory.

Robert nailed THE KEY FACTOR...
we're not run by common sense, but by that age-old 1,000% anti-matter absolute opposite:
political correctness.

Until that deficient practice is wiped from the face of the earth, everything else is pointless to bother with as PC is THE KEY LYNCHPIN perpetuating this BS.

O.K, (stop the bush bashing, geez I thought I was on the daily kos site, or something) here are some things that I found that Bush did right (these were very difficult to find, lol)...

1. the Creation of the USA Freedom Corps
2. $15 Billion Over Five Years To fight AIDS in Africa
3. $1.2 Billion to fight Malaria in Africa
4. ACF Compassion Capital Fund
5. Prisoner Re-entry initiative
6. Access to Recovery Grants
7. No Child Left Behind
8. $110 Billion To Gulf Coast recovery
9. Implemented Tax Cuts to spur economy
10. Overthrew a brutal dictator in Iraq
11.On May 24, 2006, the United States House and Senate passed the Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act, which President Bush signed five days later. The act bans protests within 300 feet of national cemeteries — which numbered 122 when the bill was signed — from an hour before a funeral to an hour after it. Violators face up to a $100,000 fine and up to a year in prison.
12. Signed the partial-birth abortion ban into law.
13. Provided much needed funding for the military.
14. Severely damaged the Al-qaeda network.
15. patriot act
16. got north korea to disable their nuke program.
17. tax cuts.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at September 11, 2007 2:16 PM

mrockroll1969, In your list above, I see but one #14, that applies to Jihad. That too, is an unsubstantiated statement. No, #10 overthrowing brutal dictator in Iraq, had nothing to do with Islamic terorr, but to take revenge for daddy. Let us say Bush did accomplish #14. But, is that adequate response for the murder of 3000 Amereicans on 9/11? By that arguement, Japan would still be an imperial power threatening US off and on, with our politicians claiming victory that 'we have not had another Pearl Harbor'. That is not an adequate response. So, sorry, but even #14 is a weak one. It only gets worse from there as none of the other points are about Islamic terror/Jihad. And it makes perfect sense. Bush was raised on Saudi money. His dad, who was sold to Saudis, told young Bush to leaen from Bandar, the Saudi prince, who later was adopted into Bush family. Result? Bush Jr. removed Saudi Arabia's reference from 9/11 commission report, increased aid and arms to Saudi Arabia, increased student's visas (when most 9/11 saudis were on student's visas). Finally, Bush danced around the 'islamic terrorists reference' only to dance around and retract the next day (possibly after a stern call from Riyadh). With the president/commander-in-chief so thoroughly compromised by enemy wealth and influence, America is as vulnerable as we see it today. No surprises there.
As for no terror attacks after 9/11, which world are you living in? Have you not heard about:
- attack in Chapel Hill?
- attack on Jews by Haq in Seattle?
to name a few. And what do you think about the flying Imam lawsuit? Is that not an attack on american citisens?
Finally, Bush is being bashed as he deserves to be bashed for pandering to Islam. In a sane world he would have been impeached, tried and punished for inadequate response to 9/11 and favouritism to Saudi Arabia, the prime attacker on 9/11. Generations to come will wonder, how did Americans allow this man two terms to collect wealth for his wahhabi and comporate friends, while destroying America as we know it.

Mark 6:11 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

11And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them."
***Where does it say to destroy anyone?**

Are you Giaour in another incarnation?

interestinconundrum, No, you need to stop believing in the imaginary and superstition:

http://godisimaginary.com/

Such discussions, in which certain not-on-point matters are heatedly debated, will have to take place outside the limits of this website.

Philippians 2 10.
NIV
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
KJV,
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
scooternyc,
Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. Philippians 2:10

Romans 8 33.
NIV
33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies.
KJV
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
scooternyc,
A Christian cannot be accused of any wrongdoing. Romans 8:33

Disingenuous or just stupid bs'er? I didn’t waste my time with the others.
awake stated, the point is moot. Test-a-ment.
By all means, get on your bike and ride off to the UN.
We wouldn’t be having a chat if we didn’t have pseudo islamists here among us. I would have thought that six years later people in nyc would have their heads out of their butts.
Is KO posting here? Are we allowing all manner of bs to be posted here nowadays? Just wondering what the guidelines are I wound not want to be caught with my bs shield down.

Yes folks it's the 6th anniversary of the worst terrorist attack on the US, and this "scooter" is waging his war against Christians. This is what is wrong with the left. "We can forgive the ignorant little brown people of their religion (because they are poor and didn't have all the advantages that we red-Indian murderers have had.) So we hate Christians because the US was based on Christian beliefs, so Christianity can't be good. Isn't that about it, scooter?

Alert,

I said that list was things bush did right, not that list is what bush did right about jihad. I agree with you that he screwed a lot of thing up conscerning this war, but by looking at the alternatives, it could have been a lot worse. I was with bush 100% going into afghanastan and taking out saddam. I never wanted boots on the ground after that (that was even before I learned about islam). I never agreed with the "you broke it, you fix it" bull. I'm just so freaking sick and tired of all the bush-basing, anti-american bullshit comming from the tv, the internet, the damn radio, etc. Have some damn patriotism - we are at war, you know.

I bet the enemy just loves all of you anti-american bush-bashers.

Christ, thanks to bush, sunni,shite,islam, and muslims are all household names, which I know damn well had to have awaken some people to this war-provoking them to do some research on the subject. I did the research thanks to bush. And thanks to bush going into iraq, we got alqaeda on the run, and none of you bush-bashers can tell me that we don't either-why do you think alqaeda is begging for us to get out of there?

Gotcha, Hugh

scooternyc wrote:

"Further, to claim that your bible is not the unalterable word of god further damages your case"

I have no "case" scooter. I was merely pointing out the fact that the Bible is not considered to be the direct immutable words of God, a belief that is diametrically opposite regarding the Qur'an.

You should already know that.

The position that I have is that your atheistic belief are of no use here. The FACT is that Islamic militants slammed planes into the twin towers and the pentagon in 2001. Another FACT is that Islamic militantism occurs globally each and every day, and it is also a FACT that the perpetrators call upon the divine mandates in the divine text of their faith as the required impetus for their actions. It is a FACT that these people believe it is their duty, directly from their Deity's mouth.

Another inconvenient FACT, is that there is no similar divine call in the Bible for similar behavior, but if one existed historically, it has been reinterpreted. There is at least that ability to reevaluate the words of man from the Bible, unlike the Qur'an, where scholarly interpretation of God's words ended almost 1000 years ago.

Your attempt at religious moral equivalency falls on deaf ears here, because it is a FACT that you cannot provide a recent historical event in Christianity that is comparative to what we see from the Islamic community today.

I read your "Letterman" list on fundamental Christianity and I answer NO to all ten signs. But what does that matter?

What also appears to be a FACT is the realization that the only thing more difficult to achieve than eliminating Islamic ideology is the total global purging af all religious ideology in general.

When you figure out how to get that daunting task done scooter, drop back on by and we can get right to work on that "democracy and freedom to all mankind" proposition of yours.

Please Hugh, deliver us all from scooter's dementia.

Best solution for Islamophobia I've ever heard.

"Want to end Islamophobia? End violent attacks committed by Muslims in the name of Islam. I guarantee that Islamophobia will then vanish utterly."

I already did.

sheik yer booty: Thanks for your response. I knew I would touch a nerve with some folks. Here's my assessment.

Lowballing estimates is not lying. OMB's numbers for health care were not firm, as is virtually always the case with OMB's financial projections. You're confusing policy differences and reasonable disagreement (where there is always some wiggle room) with outright distortion of fact.

You aver that no reasonable person can really think that Bush has done his best to keep us safe. But, there exists the fact that we have not been attacked for six years and my point here is that Bush deserves some credit for this. As for the southern border, as I indicated in my previous post, I have opposed Bush here and wrote him two letters indicating my vigorous disagreement with him on this matter. But that doesn't mean that I think he has cynically calculated a trade-off between cheap labor and Islamic terrorism. One can do his best, you know, and still be wrong on a particular issue.

You may very well be right that the Muslim world is hopeless. I backed Bush when he went into Iraq in 2003 but indicated to friends and associates at that time that I thought the weak link in all of this was the inability of Arabs to ever get their act together (principally, though not solely, because they're overwhelmingly Muslim). If the Islamic world can never reform, then indeed Bush's strategy is flawed and there will be no final victory (though keep in mind that a majority of our soldiers in Iraq agree with the mission for which they are there; also I think there is some merit to the argument that killing the terrorists in Iraq means it's much more likely that we won't have to deal with them here in large numbers). I suppose, in the final analysis, we have to hope that millions of Muslims will prize freedom and prosperity over their damn religion. But I think the Bush strategy of concluding that it would not be enough to simply continue killing the snakes that came out of the Middle Eastern swamp, but that the swamp had to be drained once and for all, was one that had merit to it. After 9/11, if you had been President, what would you have done that was capable of being done?

Hopefully no hard feelings exist. I welcome your analysis as I do that of so many others on this site. And I think we should all keep our attention focused primarily on never letting our guard down against radical Muslims wherever they might be. My best to you.

It may be hard to believe this, but America was actually somewhat LUCKY on that terrible day. (I realize that the horrors of 9-11 SHOULD HAVE been prevented if at all possible, but maybe it was not possible to have prevented them).

If it had not been for one very capable and courageous stewardess who contacted the FAA and notified them of the hijackings and planned attacks, the FAA might not have curtailed all commercial flights throughout the US (in time anyway), more jetliners would have been hijacked and turned into Islamikaze vehicles, and many times the number of Americans who died that day might have been killed.

So every storm cloud, however dark, does seem to have its silver lining.

And I am grateful we survived it (democracy and all) in tact. That, too, may be a good omen for America.

"And I would hope that someday on another anniversary of 9/11 that the news media would interview a survivor or family member of one of the murdered and say loudly into the camera, that I/we do not grieve for my dead family member, but that we actively seek the death and destruction of all those who perpetrated this heinous act of barbarity. Forget the candle lighting ceremonies and hand holding. ThatI/we seek vengeance with or without my country's support."

HOV Dummy, don't despair. I heard a woman on WMAL say that very thing this afternoon.

Xeno said:

"One last thing Atheling; before you accuse people of demonstrating 'prejudice and bigotry' you should stop and consider how those very same accusations can, justifiably, be levelled at Christianity - your faith."

No Xeno, why don't you show us how those same accusations can be leveled at Christianity. The ball is in your court.

Folks, get out your Bible and take a look at what Scooter NYC is quoting. He's either an idiot or his real name is Hamid or Abdullah. For someone who posted above "you cannot cherry pick these aspects, this would only further evidence of selective discrimination," his argument is ludicrous. His quotations from the Old Testament speak to the Jews in relationship to their God and His laws, not to other people outside the faith. And Scooter's New Testament quotes are way, way out of context. Where'd you get your Bible, at the Mosque thrift store?

Anyone here who is feeling disheartened - how about commemorating 9/11 by reading, or re-reading, preferably aloud, Oriana Fallaci's unforgettable polemic "The Rage and the Pride"?

If you know Italian, recite it in Italian.

If you don't own a copy, there is at least one web-site that contains both the Italian and English versions.

The first time I read it the hair stood up on the back of my neck. It demands to be declaimed.

Please, some Jihadwatcher in New York, this Australian would like you to do something for me: - go down to Ground Zero with a couple of bottles of good red wine, and there read aloud, at the top of your voice, Signora Fallaci's lion-roar, her paean to New York, to America, to Civilisation - and her scathing denunciation of Islam and all its works.

And after you're done, open the wine and drink a toast - to the City of New York, to Western Civilisation, to La Fallaci, to the New York Fire Department and the NYC Police Department, and to those who died.

Want to end Islamophobia? End violent attacks committed by Muslims in the name of Islam. I guarantee that Islamophobia will then vanish utterly.

But, to get to that point, Islam itself must vanish. The disappearnace of Islam, for example, is the definition of "victory" in Iraq that nobody is willing to mention.

610 * 624 * 632 * 1453 * 1526 *1683 * 1848 * 1917 * 1948 * 1968 * 1996 * 2001 * 2005

We're a nation in denial. We denied Sirhan Sirhan's motives. We swept Klinghoffer under the rug. We meekly walked away from the corpse-ridden rubble of the Marine barracks in Beirut. The Clintons --- in league with their bull-dyke Secretary of Justice --- covered up the truth about what really happened that April in Oklahoma City, Saddam's attack at our heartland. So too we buried what really happened in the parking lot at the KU vs OU football game. Worst of all, we confiscated the video of Moslems deleriously celebrating as the Twin Towers fell, dancing in the streets of Passaic, Paterson, and lower Queens. Too terrified to tell the truth, hear it, see it, or even smell it, our editors have unilaterially deigned that we mustn't see replays of the jumpers plunging down the walls of the Towers, aflame with Jet-A, because seeing those images would inflame us, and that would be political.

We need policy on Islam and the Moslems, rotten people, so naturally we get none. We need politicians on Islam and the rotten ones, so we have none.

We are a nation in denial, whether we like it or not. And soon it will become a "hate crime" even to discuss the subject, Belgium-style.

* 2:61 * 2:64 * 2:96 * 4:41 * 4:47 * 4:55 * 4:160 * 5:13 * 5:41 * 5:59 * 17:7 * 59:2 * 88:1 *

In other words, when that nuclear moment occurs in Vegas, LA, NYC, or wherever, and several hundred thousand Infidels die before the glory of Islam...

... we won't be prepared to fix the problem, once and for all.

credit man
I believe that as we close the borders up and go back to work, we will find that there is no truth to the statement, "There is just work Americans won't do.
you get one problem with this statement there are those of us like myself who are legal immigrants my wife US born though I am Canadian and if it had not been for a stroke that I had when I was in Canada helping my elderly grandmother I would be home in the USA with my wife so there are those of us who are outside the USA that need to get back in
and in the USA and Canada the biggest helpers to terrorists in my opinion are the environmentalists that protests the drilling of oil wells in Alaska and off the west coast and the mining of oil shale because it might disturb some plant or insect or vertebrae that is a bit rare we have enough oil resources in Canada and the USA to be self-sufficient but we do not have the political will to use resources that we have including developing-a alternative fuel like hydrogen as it would not be hard to convert cars over to hydrogen
this would cut off the petrodollar supply that is helping fuel the worldwide spread of radical Wahhabist Islam and the terrorism associated with this cult if it not been for petrodollars they would never have gotten strong as they are and it's time to cut the flow of modern day jizha that Muslims have lived on this like their ancestors did for millennia not producing anything a living like the Mafia off of protection i.e. pay the protection and we'd let you live as our slaves and in reality is that not what dhimmi in reality were? Slaves had more rights

Alarmed Pig Farmer

One day Bushes words will ring true only this time it will be for the government. "You are either with us, or against us". Quite profetic words I think. As sure as I sit here the government is going to have to decide. Will it attack its own people when we the people are forced to fix a problem a cowardly government refused to take action against? What happens when Al Queda pulls off the Beslan style attack they are planning? What about, as you mention, if a nuke goes off, or a dirty bomb, or biological attack .... what is going to happen? People are going to FREAK out that is what is going to happen.

Six years after 9/11, and most of the public is still ignorant about Islam. That's one of the reasons why we need the Handbook for Infidel Debaters (search JW or Islam-Watch for further info).

OT

tgusa,

I'm not sure if by your question "Is KO posting here?" you are referring to me or some other poster with those initials, or confusing me with "scooternyc", or what. Perhaps it is not a reference to me at all. But because others have referred to me as "KO" before, I want to clear up any confusions preemptively:

-No, I am not "scooternyc."
-No, I do not believe that all religions are equally bad or equally prone to inspire violence, etc.
-When such trolls as "scooternyc" have attacked Christianity in the past I have generally defended Christianity many, many times, under my former moniker. (There are a few other posters that can vouch for me on this...I posted previously under a different moniker). I don't bother anymore, unless I have a lapse of self-discipline, because it is generally a waste of time and drives threads off-topic. That, in turn, makes life needlessly more difficult for Marisol, Hugh, and Robert. Besides, the Christian posters should be able to get plenty of ammunition from Robert's new book, if they feel so inclined.

Isabellathecrusader wrote:

“No Xeno, why don't you show us how those same accusations can be leveled at Christianity. The ball is in your court.”

Isabellathecrusader; Too easy...

Bear in mind Christianity is organised religion.

Prejudiced Christianity? How about centuries of persecution of science for starters? How much blood is on the church’s collective hands over its stubborn refusal to see the evidence in front of its eyes? The church didn't willingly change its views, it was forced by advancement in science that could no longer be ignored.

Bigoted Christianity? Yet again one only has to look at the way the church has treated anyone who has not seen eye to eye with the (once) powerful church regardless of the evidence presented to it.

You can argue that today the church does not behave in these ways. Well you would be correct in that they no longer arrest/torture/kill (in the west at least – as a rule) people who do not accept the supernatural but that is only because it is no longer powerful.

It is no longer powerful because science has provided hitherto unavailable information about the earth and those abiding upon it. Religion has had it's time; nowadays there is no reason to accept supernatural answers – unless you are ill informed.

Also Isabellathecrusader the onus is on you, and like minded theists, to defend your church’s actions through its life. Not on myself, or likeminded realistic people, to attack something that has had it’s time and is now obsolete (in the context that the Bible is obviously inaccurate in both questions regarding the beginnings of life/age of the earth/historical accuracy consistency in message when comparing different authors etc. Conversely science consistently and accurately can answer questions that one could only regard as ‘divine will’ before the enlightenment, based on evidence and honest hard work) – at least to those of us who are able to think critically about theism.

If the ‘word of god’ (Bible) is bought into question then ‘god’ itself is likewise questionable.

Click on my Typekey icon for a list of suitable links for anyone wishing to learn.

Anyway that is all from me on this subject as Jihad Watch is obviously not the place for this but I wasn’t going to leave ItC’s challenge unanswered.

The reactions of Canadians as experienced by an American on 9/11:

http://covenantzone.blogspot.com/2007/09/9110107-hollow-men-at-ragnarok.html

Well Xeno, while you say it's easy you haven't answered the question. While I see from the tone of your response you fancy yourself some sort of authority on what you apparently think is the irrelevance of religion.

At your behest I will bear in mind that Christianity is an organized religion. I see no problem with it being so; in fact, many people would argue that an organized religion is preferable to a disorganized one.

You ask if the church is prejudiced. Help me out here. Which church would we be talking about? The Roman Catholic Church or one of the many Protestant Churches, since they both fall under the title of Christianity?

You seem to be upset that the church persecuted science for centuries as you put it, but then you offer no examples. Please do so and then we can have a substantive conversation.

Regarding bigotry, you said: "Yet again one only has to look at the way the church has treated anyone who has not seen eye to eye with the (once) powerful church regardless of the evidence presented to it." Who are we talking about here? And how were they treated? You can't come on to Jihad Watch and drop little bombs and expect us all to ooh and ahh over your complaints and accept them as fact. Come on, you know better than that if you ever spent any time posting here. Hit me with some facts so we can discuss this. So far you have provided your opinion, but no evidence.

And please, for all of us here who are so ill informed and not enlightened like you, provide examples of who was killing and torturing people and WHY they were supposedly doing so. Since you have science to back up your claims I'm sure you will humor me and answer my questions.

One thing though, if you admit "that is all from me on this subject as Jihad Watch is obviously not the place for this," one wonders what your purpose was in bringing it up in the first place.

I said that list was things bush did right, not that list is what bush did right about jihad. I agree with you that he screwed a lot of thing up conscerning this war, but by looking at the alternatives, it could have been a lot worse. I was with bush 100% going into afghanastan and taking out saddam. I never wanted boots on the ground after that (that was even before I learned about islam). I never agreed with the "you broke it, you fix it" bull. I'm just so freaking sick and tired of all the bush-basing, anti-american bullshit comming from the tv, the internet, the damn radio, etc. Have some damn patriotism - we are at war, you know.

I bet the enemy just loves all of you anti-american bush-bashers.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at September 11, 2007 3:56 PM

mrockroll1969, Ok. I hear ya. Even I was 100% behind Bush to invade Afghanistan (to destroy Islamic camps and to get Bin Laden) and Iraq (to rid Saddam). So far, so good. But was surprised to see that Bush would not leave Iraq after Saddam was got rid of. I was patient untill Saddam was captured. Now, there was no reason to continue in Iraq. As I feared then and as we now know, staying in Iraq was a blunder. Why did Bush continue in Iraq? Was it because he saw an opportunity to get cheap leverage from the war? Was it to fight terror there so as not to fight in USA? Leaving the US border open negated that arguement. After all, all it costed was billions of tax-dollars and American blood but, in Iraq (by Jihadis) and at home (by illegal aliens)? That is when I started suspecting Bush's motives. Next, Saudi Arabia, the chief perpetrator of 9/11 and Pakistan, the chief planner, were Bush's allies against terror. My suspision was deepened. This continued with Daniel Pearl being beheaded in that same Pakistan and Paul Jonson beheaded in Same Saudi Arabia. How can a sitting president/commander-in-chief sit with ease while innocent citizens are being beheaded by 'allies'? I dug deeper and found that Bush was raised on Saudi money, his businesses funded by Saudis and Salim Bin Laden (google and see for yourself) was a key business partner. Saudi ambassador Bandar was "adopted" as a Bush family member. Was this not a conflict of interest? Wahhabis in Riyadh fully and ruthlessly exploited this conflict-of-interest to plant mosques and madrassas all across USA, to hide from 9/11 commission report and to continue financing Jihad in the same Iraq, which Bush did not leave, when he should have. Remember all this costs billions of dolllars of tax money and more importantly, American lives. While American blood flowed in Iraq, it flowed at home as well, at the hands of the illegal aliens Bush himself was inviting, while insulting Americans with excuss like 'jobs Americans won't do' and 'Mexican family values'. Diggin deeper on this subject, you will find that Bush was raised by mexican nannies (won't be surprised if some were illegal), Jeb Bush married to a mexican and conveniently, Fox was another of Bush's "friend". Right as expected, Bush did all he could to leave the shouthern border open, even while America was plundered and American citizens raped and murdered by these criminals. Bush did not stop there. He criticized patriotic minutemen and later, prosecuted Border Patrol agents, while granting immunity to mexican drug dealer. What does that tell you about the president? That he does not care for American blood and lives. That he abuses his office to help his "friends", who are indoctrinated to build mosques, madreassas and kill Americans, Israelies, and infedels. Infact, Bush is on record to say that money and votes are extremely important in politics. If you add 2+2, you will find that Bush's moves are directed to wealth from corporations built on illegal immigrant blood-money and rich petro dollars. So what if they cost billions of tax-dollars and American lives? Move after move has confirmed this strategy and continues til today. Look at the big picture and you will find that Bush has placed himself, his friends and family well above American tax-dollars and blood, he took office to protect. Latest in this venture is the NAU. I have heard that president Bush is placing John Ellis Bush to be the first president of the NAU: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeb_Bush,_Jr. Time will tell if this is true but coming back to president/commander-in-chief, his record is clearly anti-American. Which brings me to your 'bush-basing, anti-american bullshit'. Please realize that anti-Bush is not necessarily anti-American. Given Bush's record, quite the contrary (for reasons above). Would you call Tom Tancredo, who has stood firmly for America, even more than president Bush, anti-American? Hardly. As you well know, Tom Tancredo has been found to be controversial, but for the RIGHT reasons. Gone are the days when USofA could continue with smooth-talking, savvy politicians like Carter and Clinton. By the way, here is what Clinton did to our children: http://www.blessedcause.org/proof/Clinton%20Embracing%20Islam%20selling%20out%20children.htm
These are trying times where USofA is struggling to survive. These are times to elect even if controversial, a forthright, American patriot like Tom Tancredo. Tancredo's record, which speaks for himself, is for all to see: http://www.congress.org/congressorg/bio/?id=685 Tom knows that USofA is in mortal danger from illegal immmigrants and radical Islam (read his book by the samename). Tom has named the enemy and stood firmly, even when Bush himself has criticized Tom, for America. Americans will do well to vote this patriot to office of president, 2008: http://www.teamtancredo.com

Finally, and am appreciative of your candid posts. My heartfelt thanks for that.

and in the USA and Canada the biggest helpers to terrorists in my opinion are the environmentalists that protests the drilling of oil wells in Alaska and off the west coast and the mining of oil shale because it might disturb some plant or insect or vertebrae that is a bit rare we have enough oil resources in Canada and the USA to be self-sufficient but we do not have the political will to use resources that we have including developing-a alternative fuel like hydrogen as it would not be hard to convert cars over to hydrogen
this would cut off the petrodollar supply that is helping fuel the worldwide spread of radical Wahhabist Islam and the terrorism associated with this cult if it not been for petrodollars they would never have gotten strong as they are and it's time to cut the flow of modern day jizha that Muslims have lived on this like their ancestors did for millennia not producing anything a living like the Mafia off of protection i.e. pay the protection and we'd let you live as our slaves and in reality is that not what dhimmi in reality were? Slaves had more rights

Posted by: mowasaperv at September 11, 2007 5:01 PM

Excellent analysis, mowasaperv!
Reminds me why I sold my SUV to buy a HYBRID, which not only gives better milage, but gives a TAX-BREAK, here in USofA.
Again, excellent analysis.

Khaybar Oasis,
No, No, No,
I was referring to a still unnamed so called cable news channel’s notoriously irrelevant village idiot.

“His quotations”. That was a good one Isabellathecrusader.

CGW,

Nearly all of the Canadians I know--and I am Canadian--did not gloat on 9/11. The two who I know did gloat sure as hell did hear from me and they've watched their damn mouths about it in my presence ever since. There are a small percentage of such suicidally stupid or otherwise morally deficient individuals in any Western country. There tend to be somewhat higher percentages of them in the very large cities (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver) and in particular at universities in certain departments. The story you cite does sound like a credible anecdote, but the claims made there do not represent the larger population of Canadians.

I will grant that the percentage of anti-American sentiment is higher in Canada than in the U.S. However, there is much less anti-Americanism in Canada than there is in most of Europe. But I don't want to get into finger-pointing. We need to argue against this mindless, knee-jerk anti-Americanism, which obscures the problem of Islam, wherever we find it.

On 9/11, huge numbers of Canadians (even in Toronto) volunteered to give blood to be shipped to the injured victims of the attacks. Passenger planes, with mostly American passengers, were diverted to land in various parts of Canada. Talk to those American passengers, if you get the chance, and in particular ask them how they were treated by the people of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. Perhaps a hundred thousand or more Canadians in Ottawa spontaneously organized together to show their mourning for the victims of 9/11. There were also 24 Canadians murdered in the 9/11 attacks, and many Canadians had American friends and relatives who were killed.

tgusa,

Sorry! My mistake. I guess I'm a bit defensive lately.

Amidst the flying dust...just a little reminder of why we're even here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwb5Ai7LN3c

Lest we forget...

Xeno --

Faith in God existed before the Bible was ever written. You can attempt to dismiss the Bible if you feel you need to do that, but you will never be able to dismiss the faith that resides within a persons soul. Never. Take it from someone who knows.

KO?

OK, I'll venture a "guess".

Keith Olbermann?

Your village idiot detector is working just fine.

I watched the 9/1 memorial at ground zero this morning--it took a full *three hours* to read the names of all the victims. The names were read by victim's families and by first responders--police, firefighters, and rescue workers.

Mostly, I felt for these people who had lost loved ones in such a horrifying fashion. But the tone of the memorial was odd--if someone had gone to sleep on September 10th of 2001 and just woken up today, they would have had *no idea* of what had happened at the World Trade Center from this program. Probably their best guess would have been that the buildings had collapsed because of poor maintenance, perhaps, like that bridge in Minneapolis; or that a jet pilot had experienced some sort of terrible equipment failing (perhaps the steering?) which had led to a terrible tragedy. Perhaps a catastrophic natural disaster of some sort had occured.

There was not a single mention that this was the result of a terrorist attack.

Later, a choir sang a beautiful rendition of "Bridge over Troubled Waters". This is certainly a much better song than Lennon's atrocious and banal "Imagine", but still--I do wonder if a song with the passive line, "I will lay me down" is the most appropriate on this occasion.

I flipped around between the big three cable news stations for a good part of the day, while working on other things. There was a lot of talk about the sadness of the day, but no mention at all of its cause.

It was not until after six in the evening when George Pataki was relating his experiences in NYC on 9/11 that he finally mentioned the perpetrators--Radical Islamists. (You might take some slight issue with his choice of words, but at least he named them).

This is completely dispiriting. How can you fight something that you cannot even bring yourself to name?

Isabellathecrusader; There are plenty of well known accounts to support my arguments as you well know. If you would bother to research faith/the church/the faithful (as I did and still do)through out the ages you wouldn't need to be asking such basic questions. As for why I bought this subject up; I get very annoyed with certain peoples posts on here. In hindsight I should've just counted to 10 and let it go but I didn't and as Hugh has reminded us - the purpose of this site is to take a stand against Jihad etc and not to randomly bash other faiths (no matter how justifiable that bashing is). Well you can discover my email address using the Type Key link if you wish to continue this in the form of a debate. I'm not a bigot, so I wonder if you can change my opinion of religion.

Champ - Feelings do not prove the existence or non existence of god/s. Or course belief in God existed long before the Bible. Ever since humankind development the ability to think I would say he has been looking for answers to existence.

"Want to end Islamophobia? End violent attacks committed by Muslims in the name of Islam. I guarantee that Islamophobia will then vanish utterly."

Without the sword and deceit, islam would have been stillborn.

Thinking of islam without extremism is to think of a zebra without its stripes.

Islam will have to meet its waterloo one day decisively. The outcome of that waterloo will be in true islamic binary style - either Islam, or the rest of the world.

Xeno --

Please. Feelings and Faith are two different things; but I can't expect you to truly know the difference because you are not a theist, so you do not possess the kind of faith that I'm referring to. And -- having faith in God does not mean that a person has parked their brains on the pew, as some of your posts imply.

My faith in God sometimes produces "feelings" of joy & happiness, but my faith in God was never generated BY my feelings. In fact, sometimes I'm feeling really hurt, sad and lonely, but those funky feelings never diminish my faith in God at all; and if your theory is true -- that this is a feelings-driven-thing -- then they would definitely diminish my faith, and they don't.

Explaining ones faith in God is very hard to do, and it's even harder for an atheist to understand. I know, because I was once married to an atheist for six years and he never understood where I was coming from either; and my current husband (who shares my faith in God) has a sister who is also an atheist, and he has the same difficulty communicating with her about his faith because this is not a feelings driven, intellectually driven topic. You cannot feel your way to God, nor can you think your way to God. They both play a part in your overall experience with God, but they do not bring you across the finish line where 'faith' dwells. Again, this is very hard for me to explain. It's like explaining a kiss, you have to experience it to know what I'm talking about.

Anyway, faith and feelings are not the same thing, so I needed to clear that up.

Take care!

Xeno said,

"Isabellathecrusader; There are plenty of well known accounts to support my arguments as you well know."

If there are plenty then why is it so difficult for you to name even one? You came here yesterday accusing the church (and again, we don't know which church you are talking about, the Catholic or the Protestant,) of ill treatment, bigotry and prejudice. Yet we're more than twenty-four hours into this discussion and you've provided nothing but your opinion; no facts, no evidence, nothing. If you are as passionate as you seem to be, why not answer the questions? And you need to do it here, because here is where you made your accusations. No fair dropping a little bomb in public and then trying to justify it on the sly.

Well Xeno, I see you've run off without making an attempt to verify what you said. No matter. That often happens when accusations are made that can't be backed up or when a person has only a passing knowledge of what they feel but can't articulate.

Here is an interesting article regarding the effect of several revolutions, beginning with the one in France, and what the outcome is when God is thrown to the wayside by "likeminded realistic people."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n13_v41/ai_7722283/pg_1

"If there is no God, everything is permitted."

Dostoyevsky

"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

Albert Einstein