Here's a chance for peaceful Muslims to stand up and call upon their coreligionists to keep a sense of proportion. However, watch for the predictable reaction. From Agence France Presse (thanks to Sr. Soph):
ASADABAD, Afghanistan, 14 October 2007 — Hundreds of angry villagers demonstrated in eastern Afghanistan yesterday alleging that US troops had burned the Holy Qur’an, a charge the US-led coalition rejected. Residents of Kunar province blocked a road for several hours before parliamentarians, in their home districts for the Muslim holiday of Eid Al-Fitr, were able to calm the crowd, an AFP reporter said.The protesters alleged coalition forces had torn and burned a Qur’an copy during an overnight raid in which they had arrested four men. The reporter saw torn pages of the Muslim holy book in the village of Kodu, which is about 20 kilometers south of the provincial capital Asadabad.
The owner of the house where two men were arrested said the soldiers had burst into his house in the early hours of the morning and gone through his books. “They tied up and took two of my sons with them,” the man, Char Gul, said. “They went through our books, spread them on the floor. They tore and set ablaze a Holy Qur’an and they took another Qur’an with them.”
An elder, Haji Mumtaz, said the raid started at midnight and lasted until early morning. “They took them with four people and they desecrated the Holy Qur’an,” he said. The coalition, which is rounding up Taleban and Al-Qaeda militants, confirmed there had been an operation and that four men were detained but rejected the allegations about the Qur’an.
“The coalition force involved in this incident didn’t desecrate any religious articles,” said coalition spokesman Army Maj. Chris Belcher. “We respect all religions and treat the holy articles with the respect they deserve.” Afghanistan is a deeply devout country and allegations of abuse of Islam have in the past touched off protests that have turned deadly.
Coalition troops are well trained - I doubt they would have chanced provoking islamic rage by burning the zombie's precious book.
This is just another example of how muslims try to stir up trouble. How many times have we seen in the past where muslims accuse non-muslims of desecrating their holy book just to get what they want? Either to gain their property, or because they loose a fight or argument. This will more than likely continue to enrage all muslims because it is apparent from past accusations that they will not believe the word of an infidel.
"the zombies' precious book" --ImNoDhimmi, you crack me up!
I'd like to know where the law is that says a Q can't be burned or whatever? Where's that law? Because if there isn't one, I'm going to take my little paperback Q (that I got to look up verses and read along with Robert's teachings) out to the driveway today and burn it.
Errata:
For “We respect all religions and treat the holy articles with the respect they deserve.” read
"We make sure that we treat the holy articles of all religions with respect."
I'm sorry, but I'm not "getting" Hugh's Errata.
This koran burning excuse is widely used by muslims in India to start a riot or attack cops
In Uttar Pradesh, Allahabad city, the new chief minister was enforcing laws against muslim mafia
who were feeling the heat
And lo and behold , the muslims started a koran burning riot to slow down police operations against the muslim mafia
They are just being kuffirphobic... tit for tat.
kuffirphobic! hahaha Good one!
"I'm not 'getting' Hugh's Errata."
-- from a posting above
There is a difference between "respecting all religions" and "treating with respect" certain "holy articles" of this, or that, religion. The first describes a mental state; the second describes behavior.
Errata Sheet:
For "errata" read "moesta et errabunda."
I've always wanted to do that.
Tell them it was a copy of Karl Marx's "Das Kapital" and laugh.
Moronic religious fanatics, part CXVIX.
Wasn't there a case recently of devout muslims desecrating the koran by hollowing out some pages and using the space to smuggle drugs (or was it a weapon?) through customs?
Anyone remember the details?
Well, golly gee, it wasn't a Christian/Jewish bible so "desecrating" it was not simply the just exercise of "free speech?" I mean, we do burn the U.S. flag as the only authorized way to destroy a used/damaged one. How is burning a Qur'an a desecration? How about burying it instead? Running it through a shredder?? After all, it is a "how to" book on the destruction of Western Civilization.....oh, sorry, that's being too harsh [Islamotruthic].
Sure, not all Afghans are Taleban or Al Qaeda, but when it comes to Islam, they know what side they're on, and it's not with us Infidels.
Blood is thicker that water.
Sorry off topic. In trying to decide about which canidate I would consider supporting I found Mike Huckabee. Check out his take on the issues.
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/index.cfm?FuseAction=Issues.View&Issue_id=21
Energy independence!! We need that NOW!!
BUT does he understand Islam?
http://www.dwc.edu/news/2006-2007/huckabee-ap.shtml
"This is an enemy that really basks in the perversion of piety and the face of a faith to create a real sense of the ultimate contrast between light and between darkness, between life and between death,” Huckabee said.
He said anything less than a resounding victory in Iraq and elsewhere would mean the end of U.S. culture.
"This is not like most wars and battles which are fought over property or prosperity or personalities or even politics,” he said. ”At the heart of this is religion. But a perversion of religion. Islamic fascism is real and the jihadists that have declared a war against us must be understood in the theological context in which this war is being waged.”
People - I'm putting the link to the George Washington U newspaper, the "Hatchet" here so you can see political correctness run amuck at what is supposed to be one of our finer academic institutions. It's a revolting sight - if you lose your breakfast, my apologies.
http://www.gwhatchet.com/
drive the foreign policy of the United States of America.
Here is an intresting site...
http://globalincidentmap.com/home.php
I gather that Muslims are idolators. They murder when things like books are supposedly 'desecrated', they clearly fear things like sculptures, for they destroy them (and paintings too) wherever they find them. Muslims reveal themselves to be driven by the most primitive superstitions too. The Saudi throne still relies on soothsayers and magicians and fortune tellers to make decisions in matters of state.
It strikes me as very bizarre that these self same Muslims come to the modern west and demand that we 'respect' these idolatries and philobarbaric practices. Rather than lighting up the Empire State Building for Eid we should be deriding them for the primitive and idiotic cavemen that they clearly are.
Uh oh. Get ready for Congressional hearings, and possible prosecution of our soldiers.
/How in the hell will we win this?
See Ken Burn's "The War". Apparently, General Patton had announced, early in the war, that he eagerly anticipated "taking a piss in the Rhine".
When the opportunity presented itself, he did so. And, Ken Burns has posted the photographic record in his documentary.
We will recognize that our war is being prosecuted seriously when our leadership dispenses with this "respect for the koran" non-sense. Defiling the koran is a good way to initiate the new paradigm.
They destroy ancient Bhuddist statues and then think they can shame the west for allegely violating a Kookran. Can we say the father is upset that his son was arrested for aiding the Taliban. He then used a tactic directly from the Kasmir, they use to force the Kaffur to submitt called riots. I wonder if they could affoard Islamic Rage Boy's services for this.
pvb-if you're concerned about the Islamist threat, take a look at a candidate's stance on immigration, legal and otherwise.
The first line of defense is here at home.
Any candidate who will turn a blind eye to the threat posed by muslim immigration and open borders is not a good choice.
Huckabee is absolutely terrible on illegal immigration. Romney talks tough on Jihadism, but wants to double legal immigration (from where-that is the question) placing more stress on an already overworked and incompetent federal agency and giving more Jihadis the opportunity to infiltrate our country (they recently lost 100,000 background files on asipiring citizens...who were ALL naturalized anyway).
I'd suggest a candidate with a more robust immigration and national security stance, including Hunter, Tancredo, or maybe Fred Thompson. Guliani has a mixed record on immigration, but he does have a crack foreign policy team (it includes Daniel Pipes, for one)and a record of standing up to Muslims (e.g. no Arafat in NYC).
Didn't the Afghan muslims shell and destroy some of the biggest amd most ancient statues of Buddha in the world that were carved into a mountainface there in Afghanistan a few years back?
If the coalition troops started a religion that ordered them to burn all the Korans in Afghanistan, the Afghan muslims would let them burn all the Korans they want, cause muslims are fair and don't believe in double standards, right?
Hugh -
Perhaps, you could expand upon Patton's "pissing in the Rhine" paradigm?
The Rumor Mill is always open in IslamBull. Stealth bombers aren't the only things our troops are being hit by, they're also fighting against these stinkin' lies!
Which is were true -- these books SHOULD be burned.
...oops
Wish it were true.
The "Bamyian Buddhas." I don't believe I spelled "Bamyian" right. Anyway, you should read Oriana Fallaci's rage at this hideous and revolting destruction by Mohammedans in "The Rage and The Pride." Such a great thing about Fallaci is she doesn't mince words! Oh man - wish she was still among us with her fiery indignation about Mohammadans!
Greetings:
The military is good for two things, killing people and breaking things.
If you expect them to otherwise, you have your hammer confused with your scewdriver.
Perhaps, you could expand upon Patton's "pissing in the Rhine" paradigm?
Posted by: Havoc to Hugh...
I am sure Hugh will have a longer explanation, but my simple one is, 'When ya gotta go, ya gotta go'....
Burning the Quran...An idea who's time has come. When The Church was conducting its centuries long book burning policy, of the jillions of books burnt, I wonder how many of them were Qurans? Not enough I suspect. Rioting and animated demonstrations take a lot of energy. Eventually the rioters must rest up, 'Rage Boy' is just resting. We need more Quran burnings and cartoon riots resulting in a tired Islam. Never give em a chance to rest up from the last riot before a new one is called for. A tired Islam is a weak Islam, it is better to encourage their hostile energies to implode rather than explode...Burn some more Qurans, draw some more cartoons, keep the momentum going...
duh swami:
"When The Church was conducting its centuries long book burning policy, of the jillions of books burnt"
Jillions? I doubt if there were even "jillions" of "books" over the "centuries" that you purport.
Don't forget the burning of books by the Nazis, the Mongols, the Romans, the Chinese, the Turks, the Arabs, the Bolsheviks, the banana republics in Latin America, and of course, here in the good ole US of A.
I would bet my last nickel that when, a year or so from now when all the Congressional hearings and NYT exposes and U.N. Human Rights reports and U.S. Army internal investigations are completed, that U.S. troops did not tear and burn a Qur'an.
But I can honestly say that, if they had, I could not possibly care less.
lol@ topic...
puhlease...
10 to 1 it's the same old setup as we've seen it turn out to be dozens of times before...
they trash their OWN holy kook...errr, I mean book, then blame it on the infidels...
...either that or their camel knocked over a lantern trying to avoid being raped by some loser who wasn't gettin' any carnal knowledge from a hapless HUMAN female (especially after he lost his blowup doll when it mysteriously broke wind after being pierced & flew out the window...and the sheep were just too fast for him), and it set the place on fire, & the beastial boy has to cover his @$$ some way, so blames it on the infidel-
works every time...lol.
Pathetic at best.
To the poster above who said he would burn his copy of the Koran - it has to be the original Arabic text to be desecration. A translation is not the Koran at all but a version of its meaning ( apparently God speaks Arabic).
If somebody did a photoshop mock up of a burning Koran - done artfully, so that it could be seen, on close inspection but not too obviously, to be a fake and not the photo of a real event, would that count as a desecration. Perhaps an Islamic scholar could help me out here.
What if somebody drew a cartoon featuring a burning Koran?
Havoc said
Patton was a rather, uhh, direct speaker. But he was also a learned student of history, and a man of strong moral convictions. He had no illusions that all people in the world were just like him, that they all shared the same goals and values as him, that their gods were all the same as his god. He was able to look at Nazi German behavior and their ideology and know that this was a movement that was a danger to the safety of U.S. citizens. He didn't want to reach out to the moderate Nazis and save them from their few extremist Nazi leaders. He knew that they needed to be crushed, and he was just the man to do the crushing.
We could use a person with Patton's plainspoken clarity and self-assurance, but make no mistake, the enemy will not best be defeated by tanks this time.
Patton would be crucified today.
During WWII his bluntness got him in trouble over and over again. He had his command removed because of his outspoken nature and this was before political correctness.
It's a shame.
When you read the article you get the impression that these people REALLY-REALLY need psychological counseling. The fact that possibly a holy (?) book that 2/3s of the worlds population does not believe in is burned or decorated in some way results in violent demonstrations. Yet "meanwhile,a suicide bomber killed seven people and wounded 29 in Afghanistan, the bomber was on a motorbike and blew himself up in a crowded part of the town as people were shopping", results in NO demonstrations against the perpetrators and it seems NO ONE in that country (except the dead) cares. This is a religion? The sanctity of life is ignored over a piece of paper with some words written on it? A book that specifically states that it is ok to kill someone but it's not ok to desecrate one of over a million + like books? When will the rest of the world wake up and realize the s#%& has hit the fan and is now covering them?
...said coalition spokesman Army Maj. Chris Belcher. “We respect all religions and treat the holy articles with the respect they deserve.”
Whereas Hugh posted above that the statement was poorly worded, another take is that it's an accurate explanation of why a Qur'an may have been burned.
The protesters alleged coalition forces had torn and burned a Qur’an copy during an overnight raid in which they had arrested four men.
......................
Ultimately, this is no more sophisticated than a schoolyard bully prefacing his attacking some hapless kid with an accusation that he heard that the kid was "talking about his Momma".
As a small kid in tough inner-city schools, I was on the receiving end of this nasty idiocy more than once. *No one*, including the bully, believed that I had "insulted his Momma". It was entirely pro forma.
This is not only the same sort of thing, it also serves the same purpose--it leaves the victim on the defensive, earnestly proclaiming how much he respects the supposedly insulted party.
It is a way to put a gloss on naked aggression, and give a respectable reason for actions that are in no way reasonable. Note that here it totally overshadows the raid and arrests. What were these men arrested for? What were they suspected of doing? Who cares--a Qu'ran was desecrated!
It's not only the quran, but newsreaders call every little spot on the map over there, "the holy city of _______" fill in the blank. I don't recall any other religion getting that kind of reverence from news people.
Atheling...How many is a jillion? How should I know, I can't count beyond fingers and toes. I just know it is a lot. It is no secret that 'The Church', in the old days indulged itself in book burnings, and lots of them. I don't doubt the accuracy of your observations, that others did the same thing. The stupid Romans burned the books at the library at Alexandria as well, but I was not commenting on book burning as being a good or bad thing, or attacking the Church, only that if the book burners were burning any Qurans they were not burning enough of them.
duh_swami:
Well I think you were exaggerating. I doubt if there were a "jillion" books during the height of the book burning by the Church as you claim, since "lots" of them which you allege were done before Gutenberg invented the printing press in Europe (and a lot of it was not done under Vatican direction, i.e. Torquemada).
Your failure to note the other culprits by whom books have been burned, and singling out only the Church belies your claim that you were "not commenting on book burning as being a good or bad thing, or attacking the Church".
duh_swami, I just looked it up on Wikipedia, and there is no such thing as jillion. So there. Next time you want to open your big trap, you might want to check it out before you embarrass yourself in front of the whole world. What's that? Sorry, gotta go, the men in the white coats are here to take me back home.
Atheling...if you are looking for a fight you will have to go somewhere else, calling me a liar wont win you anything. I explained it. If you can't except the explanation, it has become your problem, and not mine....If you don't want it to be a problem, then stop trying to make something out of nothing...
Special guest...Calling some unknown large number, a jillion is just an expression, a metaphore, not to be taken as scientific fact. I am amazed that you are ignorant of that. Your personal insults are also amazing, uncalled for and not too bright. I guess I will have to stop taking you seriously...
As much as I despise bush, he, as commander in chief will be fully justified in prosecuting any soldier who desecrtates the Koran. Convict him, imprison him, then hand him over to the Afghani people for further punishment. The U.S. must learn that other cultures have just as much right to live as they do. Maybe more.
To whom it may concern...From dictionary .com
jillion
–noun
1. an indefinitely vast number; zillion.
2. of or noting such a quantity: a jillion problems.
3. An indeterminately huge number.
HMMMM now what????
smartgrowthadvocate...You must not be an American...what Islamic paradise do you come from?
duh_swami, I cannot tell if you are joking. I was. I cannot speak for others.
duh_swami, see here. No offense meant.
Special guest...Sometimes it is hard to tell when I am joking, or just being flip. Usually I don't get flip with posters, unless they are obvious trolls, or attack me for some reason. We have both posted here for a while now which was why I used the word 'amazed' in your direction. You don't usually attack commentors either. Anyway thanks for your imput...no problem, have a good night...
Specialguest...I read the second one after I posted to the first one. But now I get it...enlightenment...and I didn't even have to go to church to get it ...thanks
duh_swami-
A jillion is one padillion more than a bazillion.
Everyone knows that.
That's right profitsbeard, and if I had even half a padillion in my pocket right now, I would go to town and buy a beer, and maybe some chips...
Afghan villagers scream, "You burnt the holy koran!" Our military immediately shrivels into defensive mode. All it takes is the word of some raggedy-ass villagers and we assume blame and shrivel with guilt.
In Guantanomao, one of these short-pants "internees"--captured terrorist--howls that we have not shown sufficient respect to the "noble" koran, and again, we assume a defensive posture, while our own and the European Leftist we-feel-your-pain-you-blameless-Moslems shift into overdrive and scream "Close Guantanamo! Release all these Innocents!"
In Iraq, Iraqi "eyewitnesses" swear that our side opened fire unprovoked, and again it's mea culpa. We cannot do enough to show that we will punish our troops--severly--if the testimony of the Iraqi Moslem eyewitnesses outweighs that of the accused Americans.
Is that a way to fight a war? Is that a way to TRY and win a war?
What is wrong with our side (not us, because we here would not be as wimpyy as is our Administration and by contagion the military it controls)?
The reason, my friends, is plain before us. it is no mystery. It can be found at
http://islamic-danger.blogspot.com/2007/10/why-have-we-been-unable-to-win-any-wars.html
Click on the links there--and you will have your answer.
There are two kinds of Qurans, Arabic and those in other languages. The only Quran that requires respect is an Arabic one. A Quran written in Engilsh or Urdu does not require much respect at all.
Hugh has written about Islam being a vehicle of Arab supremacy (supremacism?). The rules that make an non-Arabic Quran an ordinary book is a good example of Arabism uber Alles.
Burning Koran sounds like a good name for a radical rock band.
Except that they're all mostly clueless and craven.
Burning Bush is more their speed.
Kick the tame guard dog, run from the jihad pitbull.
Crap in your own nest and feather the enemy's.
The U.S. must learn that other cultures have just as much right to live as they do. Maybe more.
Posted by: SmartGrowthAdvocate
And maybe “other cultures” need to be totally and completely obliterated for the common good.
Burning Koran sounds like a good name for a radical rock band.
Posted by: profitsbeard '
...or
Koran Koran
Dirty kuffar dogs
Islamaphobe
Black Stone Zombies
Trashmouth
Psycho Killer
Mecca Monger
Maximum Destruction
Turbin Head
Ahmadinejads Addiction
Al-Sadr Sewer
Khomeinimania
For Jews Only
Good for the US troops. May all extant copies of the Kuran meet the same fate--and SOON!
Troops accused of burning koran?
Yeah, right...like the IDF was accused of murdering that guy & his kid in "jenin! jenin!" which turned out to be a lying-assed setup, too.
Durkas need a new playbook