Is the glass half full, or half empty? Are 158 prosecutions a lot, or not that many? This study from NYU takes the latter position, and takes a critical stance on more urgent assessments of the threat. But those numbers aside, the study also does not appear to take into account the threat posed by individuals or groups in the U.S. who may not personally plot and carry out attacks, but who may sympathize with the prospective attackers, and enable them to function either actively, through providing funds and engaging in legal intimidation and coercion, or passively, through covering over and refusing to engage the ideology that drives the jihad.
And lastly, we don't know who may not yet be on the radar screen, and we cannot assume we have accounted for every threat to the country and its people.
"Law center: Little evidence of jihadists in the U.S.," from CNN:
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Six years of investigations and prosecutions have turned up little evidence of Islamic jihadists at work in the United States, according to a study released Monday.
The study, conducted by New York University's Center on Law and Security, tracked 510 cases billed as terrorism-related when arrests were made.
But it found only 158 of those people arrested since al Qaeda's September 11, 2001, attacks were prosecuted for terrorism.
In a statement issued Monday afternoon, the Justice Department said the report "reflects a serious misunderstanding" of anti-terrorism efforts and includes "wildly inaccurate" statistics.
The study found only four people -- including confessed al Qaeda operative Zacarias Moussaoui and "shoe bomber" Richard Reid -- were convicted of planning attacks within the United States.
"The vast majority of cases turn out to include no link to terrorism once they go to court," the report found. The analysis "suggests the presence of few, if any, prevalent terrorist threats currently within the U.S."
[...]
The Justice Department disputed the law center's figures in Monday's study, saying more than the 62 people who the study cited have been convicted of terrorism-related offenses since the September 11, 2001, attacks.
But the law center said most of those 62 cases involved people planning attacks overseas, not inside the United States.
So we should care less if a particular attack won't happen here?
And looking at possible attacks worldwide, just 7 percent of those arrested in what authorities called terrorism-related cases have been convicted of terrorism charges or providing material support for terrorism, the report said.
Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd said that as of late September prosecutors had won 312 convictions in "terrorism and terrorism-related cases with an international nexus" since the 2001 attacks. And Justice Department statistics found far fewer defendants had been charged with terrorism offenses between September 11, 2006, and September 11, 2007, than the 109 the report asserted.
NEW YORK (CNN) -- Six years of investigations and prosecutions have turned up little evidence of Islamic jihadists at work in the United States, according to a study released Monday.
A sick joke or what?
Here's another BS report from a hired shill in EUrabia, trying to whitewash everything and tells us to go back to sleep:
http://ryanlanham.wordpress.com/2007/04/22/counterpunch-muslims-cause-little-terrorism-in-europe/
Focusing on terrorism is missing most of the picture: creeping sharia, the chilling effect on speech, chronic abuse of the legal system, honor killings...
Islamic supremacism is the problem. Terrorism is a means to an end.
First of the statistic is misleading to the real world practice.
Most cases don't rise to the level of a whole terrorism related case, due to the complexity of prosecution and the issues about disclosure of sources and methods.
The chosen path is when discovered to take them down via a lesser included offense that doesn't present those kind of exposure risks.
Deportation charges, money laundering, or whatever works to end the threat.
This was covered in the recent news about the AQ supporters in NJ by the FBI's own statements.
It is counterproductive and ties up resources just to have a flashy show trial. i.e. Holy Land Foundation with all the complexity unless there is a high threshold to the case.
Take care of them quick and clean with lesser infractions and the terror stats stay low , but so do the attacks.
It seems like we need some more zealous "prosecutors"
"Islamic supremacism is the problem. Terrorism is a means to an end."
Posted by: Beagle at October 18, 2007 12:35 AM
Indeed.
Ya raise a helluva good point, Marisol (being a lot, may, or ?)
General rule of thumb in the business..."10% rule"
On average (at least in the US)...
15,000 potential security threats every year
of those, 1,500 show some basis-in-fact for being potentially beyond just rantings
of those, 150 are actionable (net-1% of all).
Same rule of thumb would suggest we should've had almost 1,000 prosecutions so far, at the very least.
Actually, we have had WAY more...but one major factor interferes with that "10% rule", of which consist of many different divisions of the same company of folks, most of which have plenty of info on them at http://www.discoverthenetwork.org and have had better than average luck in forcing dropped charges, often for ridiculous reasons:
the 5th column, see...
lynne stewart
aclu
cair
sds
et. al.
...ok, you get the idea...
That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Tripple that number and you're probably closer to the truth.
Good work men and women of home security, and our courageous troups abroad. Keep the jihadists forever unbalanced on their back foot. We can win this despite the MSM lies, the Muslim lies, the PC Left's lies, and their hatreds for our freedoms. We will win when their jihad is declared lost, by them, because we are better. Freedom is far more powerful than anything those primitives can throw at us. Their evil cult of Islam has no chance, and the sooner they understand this, the better. We are better than them, we are the Free.
Prosecute these vermin of Islam with the full power of the law. They deserve no leniency.
This reminds me a little of fishing. Where the guys in the boats are trying to cast close to the shore, while the fishermen on the shore, are trying to cast out where the boats are.
Terrorists train here for fighting over there. While terrorists over there are training for fighting over here. It only makes sense if you are a fisherman or a terrorist...
and speaking of lynne stewart...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/10172007/news/regionalnews/terror_lawyer_says_shed_do_it_.htm
she should be living right next door to "jesus christ supermax" in CO.
case-in-point,
the enemy within
Hrm, let's see, 158 / 6 = approx 25, that's 2 per month. I'm sorry, but even if that is all, that's still WAY too much for my liking. How about 0 per year?? Ya, I like that much better. Not the prosecution of, of course, but the necessity of prosecuting anyone. If there was greater care taken of immigration and the madrassas here in the U.S. were teaching that Jihad was wrong, that the killing of supposed infidels was wrong, that the idea that Islam should 'rule the world', then perhaps eventually that 0 sum would/could be realized. Until at least these steps are taken, the number will most assuredly go higher exponentially over the next few years. I shudder to think what a Democrat in the White House would mean if even our supposed 'right wing' President isn't doing enough. I don't want my children and grandchildren to grow up under Sharia law but that is precisely what will happen if our government doesn't wake up and smell the stink coming from the east. President Jefferson took the battle to the islamists in his time, why can't we do it now??? Where do you think '...to the shores of Tripoli' in the song originated?? C'mon, WAKE THE HELL UP!!
Osama bin Laden has never been prosecuted for terrorism.
So that means we shouldn't be concerned about him...right?
.....do not be lulled into a deep sleep....Islam never rests....they are out there....google Islamberg....read the comments made by those that are arrested...watch those Islamic talk shows that appear from time to time late at night, often on Sundays....take the time to read the transcripts of speeches given by Muslims to other Muslims....become a silent sentinal and inform others of what you discover....
and Ban Muslim Immigration....
mohammad atta killed 3000 people on 9/11 and has NEVER been brought to trial; has NEVER since been on the FBI's ten most wanted; and as far as I know, NO ONE is even looking for him.
OBVIOUSLY, his act could not have been a major one if I follow the reasoning in this article correctly.
After all, these jihadists kill people only once and disappear forever -- so what is the problem?
The problem is that you people who did this study are idiots -- very DANGEROUS idiots who will succeed in getting many more people needless killed by misrepresenting the stated goals and aspirations of the jihadists themselves.
Suggestion: go to one of the many jihadist training camps scattered throughout the US and in New York -- carry out your study there!
Don't forget to duck when you do your observational study -- they use REAL ammo in their AK-47's I hear; and DO NOT sit in the school buses either which are used for training.
They might mistake you for dummies and who knows what could happen.
The headline says it all. There are no Muslims in the USA "personally struggling". As we all know that definition of Jihad.
Now Murder, that's another story. It took Atlanta police three months to decide that a woman found shot dead in her own bed was actually murdered.
She was mentioned to be a "Lay Muslim"???
I'm sure they would have rather said she died of lead poisoning or natural causes.
The police don't seem to have that problem with declaring a spade to be a G*D shovel with any other group.
"It took Atlanta police three months to decide that a woman found shot dead in her own bed was actually murdered."
.....evidently , this tells you something about the Atlanta Police....
....some time ago the Atlanta Police found a body that had 19 hammer blows to the head...they ruled it a suicide....
....some time ago the Atlanta police burst through the door of the home of a 92 year woman and shot her dead for drug dealing....
....The Atlanta police department has had many scandals....
They probably forgot to include John Muhammed and Lee Malvo as a terror-related crime. Or the Trolley Square shootings by the Bosnian (muslim) Sulejman Talović. Or the two in South Carolina found with "fireworks" in their trunk? How about investigating the shooting of four cops in Miami-Dadae earlier this year? He supposedly has ties to radial islamic community in Miami and his half-brother ISHMAEL Labeet (now Ishmale Ali) killed 8 Americans "because they were White" in US Virgin Islands years ago, then fled to Cuba
www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1896231/posts
Bet you anything incidents like this (and many more) are not included when counting terrorism-related cases since 9/11.
In Canada, an RCMP cop was killed early this month by Emrah Bulatci, a Turk, whose father said he wouldn't turn in his son if he knew where he was.
Be very suspicious when you hear of cop killings in the days to come, it might be that mad Mo's followers are going to increasingly target them.
"Be very suspicious when you hear of cop killings in the days to come, it might be that mad Mo's followers are going to increasingly target them.
Posted by: j_not_a"
....possibly....but i suspect schools, school buses and school events to be high on the target list....followed by symbols of capitalistic successess such as the Holland Tunnel, Hoover Dam, Golden Gate Bridge, or the Sears Tower....
...of course , the ever increasing incidents of just one or two Muslims involved in shooting incidents or terror plotting incidents are but the tip of the iceberg....
...Ban Muslim Immigration...
This report is an outrage. The same groups who do everything they can to thwart investigations, impede police surveillance activity, and hamstring the judicial process when dealing with jihadists then cite statistics about prosecutorial success as evidence that there is no threat.
That the report apparently does not acknowledge these impediments, and does not cite any rationale for ignoring them, means that the authors are agenda-driven. And their agenda is denial.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't care if it's 20 out of 200,000 who want to wage war for their god. And if a muslim woman in Sweden declares she wants to kill the artist living up the road, well, that just kind of freaks me out. I just can't be apathetic about this.
Which is why one of the US's main political parties (Hugh's party), the Democrats, does not acknowledge that there is any problem with islam in any event.
NYU is the reliable leftie centre of the US (used to be Berkeley) with its tenured leftie staff, with its 'eastern studies' departments that no doubt turned out many of the government employees in Foggy Bottom who are screwing up US foreign policy at present (should be called 'leaky' Foggy Bottom).(Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame?).
We are being served well by our elites.
j_not_a wrote:
They probably forgot to include John Muhammed and Lee Malvo as a terror-related crime. Or the Trolley Square shootings by the Bosnian (muslim) Sulejman Talovic´. Or the two in South Carolina found with "fireworks" in their trunk? , , ,
...........................
This is exactly the point I was going to make. I also doubt that it includes "sudden Jihad-syndrome" SUV killer Aziz Popal in California or would-be SUV killer Taheri-azar of North Carolina, both of whom claimed to be terrorists--Taheri-azar in great, Qur'an quoting detail. Both are now pleading insanity. In both cases, officials have claimed that these are not case of terrorism, despite the evidence.
What about the Seattle Jewish Center killer, who announced being a Muslim and his hatred of Jews before he opened fire? He had no formal links to large terrorist groups, either.
And what about the astonishing crimes over the years of the Bey family and its associates of Your Black Muslim Bakery in Oakland, California? This group has been responsible for a string of murders, disappearances, kidnappings, and torture over just the past couple of years, culminating in the assassination of journalist Chauncy Bailey. But everyone knows Black Muslims do not practice doctrinally mainstream Islam, so surely this cannot have anything to do with the global jihad.
I doubt any of this is considered terrorism. Add all the instances of fund raising and money-laundering for Al-Qaieda and Hizb'allah and Hamas and someone's Jihadist cousin, and all the cases of terrorist plots foiled early enough that no one was hurt. In all these latter cases, it is claimed that the plotters were not really serious, were joking, were fantasists who represented no real threat.
158 "terrorism-related" cases are only the tip of the iceberg.
And if four passenger jets that were hijacked the morning of September 11, 2001, has not been personally observed by thousands of bystanders on the streets of New York City, Arlington, VA and Washington, DC and Shanksville, PA, slamming into their targets/the ground, then there would never have been a "9/11." The current administration was shoved into this "war on terror" only because these four planes could not be "culpably denied" by our government like other incidents: the passenger jet off of Long Island or the Egyptian Air jet into the Atlantic Ocean. Rmemebr all the news commentary about that cars: "suicide is against Islan, blah blah blah. Many commentors have been harsh on the Bush Administration and I agree that Bush has let a golden opportunity slip by with his and his administration's unwillingness to honestly inform the American public about the real war we are fighting and have been fighting for decades, starting with the takeover of the American Embassy in Tehran. Of course, previous administrations kept their heads stuck in the sand.
The more I read articles like this and the one a friend in Indiana sent me bout a goat farmer who sells his goats to local Muslims and also allows them to slaughter them on his farm in the spirit of recognizing their unique religion/culture and being open minded to different folks, well, the more I believe we will come very close to losing this war by virtue of being slowly but surely consumed by Islam and Sharia - all while we slap oursleves on the backs about what nice folks we are.
Well surprise, surprise. NYU Center for Law and Security. Sounds so prosecutorial, doesn't it? Sounds like they've really got their shoulder to the wheel on jihadism and the Islamist threat, doesn't it?
Here's the Executive Director's bio:
Karen J. Greenberg is the Executive Director of the Center on Law and Security.
She is the editor of the NYU Review of Law and Security, co-editor of The Torture Papers: The Road to Abu Ghraib, and editor of the books Al Qaeda Now and The Torture Debate in America (Cambridge University Press). Most recently she served as the co-chair to Governor Eliot Spitzer’s Homeland Security transition committee, where she advised the Governor-Elect, Lieutenant Governor-Elect and the transition team on the major challenges facing the state.
She previously taught courses in the European Studies Department at New York University. She is a former Vice-President of the Soros Foundation/Open Society Institute and the founding director of the Program in International Education. She is a frequent writer and commentator on terrorism, international law, the war on terror, and detainee issues. Her work has been featured in the LA Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Nation, the American Prospect, and on the major news channels. She has served as a consultant to the National Endowment for the Humanities, the NY Council for the Humanities, the NYC Board of Education and USAID.
Yawn...if the average person hearing this report didn't swallow it wholesale like a baby bird. But as it happens, they will never hear how agenda-driven the "Center" is. All you have to do is google their website. Read an article or two, if you can stomach it.
The Simpsons - "Nothing to see here...move along....(book depository...book depository...book depository....)"
Just re-read my own post...
Maybe Karen Greenberg (Armstrong in a previous life...?) advised Gov. Spitzer on his exciting new "give illegals drivers' licenses" idea.
From George Soros' mouth to Spitzer's ear. Yup, they're not trying to get illegal voters, not at all.
"But it found only 158 of those people arrested since al Qaeda's September 11, 2001, attacks were prosecuted for terrorism."
===============================================
If the Dhimmicrats and ACLU succeed in banning wiretapping, fewer Islamists would be arrested. Any evidence collected would be thrown out of court as unconstitutional! The Dhimmis are determined to see that none of these arrests results in a conviction.
exsgtbrown,
good point on police departments...it's not just Atlanta's either...
hell...look at the city bunch out HERE- Modesto, Califdornia, and that circus stunt Scott Petersen case seen 'round the world they had to actually handle...LOL
(it's the reason I don't live IN the city limits- government sponsored dial-a-prayer amounts to a useless stab-n-slab after-the-fact bureaucracy...but God help you if you if you're smoking in your truck with a gun rack in the back of the cab in city limits-even if it's empty, and if you have anything but a faded leftist political sticker on the truck, you're done for, lol)...sad.
it took threats of interagency intervention from the county Sheriff, Les Weidmann, to light a fire under their @$$es to get anything done...2 months later.
It's also why police departments various areas nationwide are no longer being called "PD", but "PC".
It's also one major reason (PC thought police vs real cops) people like Gray Davis (who wasn't the only one who) got recalled, and we ended up with the Governator (now former Sheriff Les Weidmann is now the head of Arnie's Capitol bodyguard- Les is a cowboy & REAL cop, not a wussy-@$$ PC), we jokingly call him the Head of Arnie's Praetorian Guard, lol
But say to say, we're not the only ones who see it...political correctness must be purged, completely, from everything from the practice of, psyche, even the very lexicon of speech, if we are to beat anything, let alone terrorism-it's a cancer that must be eradicated at all costs-ot it will eradicsate US-there is no hope of coexistence.
Take that element out (read that as the 5th column enemy within) and the rest will come much easier.
"Political Correctness is killing us"
-Brigitte Gabriel
Okay lets cut out the political and law talk and say what is really being said here.
Those who were prosecuted were the ones found over the body,in the library with the bloody candle stick in thier hnad and a sign in flashing neon that said i Jihaded.
The rest were innocent because there was a shadow of doubt,usually caused by Islamophobia and racism and for fear of causing "peaceful muslims" to start rioting,burning and killing to prove thier innocense.
Everyone seen this already?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtG7-0mKG4c
(yes, I saw it, but it's a symptom, not the cause)
It would be nice to cut out the "political and law talk", but that's nothing less than putting a topical band-aid on an arterial wound...
(you think I LIKE it? no way-it's a headache! But it IS there, and impossible to dismiss since it is THE problem-THE #1 problem over anything else).
Common sense has been replaced by politics, aka, political correctness (the 5th column enemy within).
That is THE simplest part of the whole thing.
The problem with most is they want it:
1) neat
2) painless
3) over by dinnertime
...sad to say, not gonna happen-not with PC in control.
The root IS political correctness, everything else is superfluous, peripheral sideshows and window dressing.
It's not palatable (I wished it'd simply go away, too), but it IS indisuptable.
It'd be nice if it were as simple as turning on/off a light switch, but it's not.
Eliminating political correctness, and bring back common sense...that's 90% of the battle right there.
Until that's confronted, everything else is like killing ants with sledgehammers.
Purge PC and you purge the rest comes easier.
Until there's the fortitude to confront it, it's just sittin'-n-spinnin'.
I here you jcom972 ,however i think it is needed more than ever for things such as what Beck has said here to be said ALOUD all over the place.
I used to blog about NASA,since 9/11 it's been islam islam islam.Every day i blog the same CRAP.To the tune of the same tired and worn out question. What have Muslims done for islam lately?
We all know the answer.
Oh yes political correctness and multicultural seperated oneness is the cats meow.A wonderful experiment,kind of like one where a scientist creates a black hole here on earth.
I'm taking part in sending Roberts Books to my representatives. I blog with people who blog with people who blog with people....
if there is a drive to gather as much razor wire as can be found,i'm gathering what i can find.I think six years is enough time to come to grips with reality.
I seem to remember oh so long ago we came to the conclusion that what that video shows is the sympton and not the cause.The same can be said for cancer and it takes a life every second.
we have a cure for this "cause."
We have become the parrot of ourselves and progress can barely be measured ,if at all.
Wino,
Many thanks for fleshing out the proof of the suspicion.
A fine coup.
K. Greenberg - leftie academic - the ties to the libs and Soros and the lib governor.
These very people try and create the reality to suit their ideology (there is no real threat -Bush trumped it up) but that is so self defeating.
It's sick & calls for pathology ID. What a shame.
Again, thanks.
Considering the Dog and Pony show needed for bringing Charges, we should feel "lucky" we have this many.
dgene,
pathology? or lobotomy? lol
Regardless, something didn't go well for their PC ilk lately, at least from the ones based out here in CA who are part & parcel sorosistas, like this guy.
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/10/18/stark-raving-mad/
video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsGaNR9dVPM
with peripheral irrelevancies like this foolishness, it's amazing anything gets done at all.
Almost forgot...the scary part about that?
He's the party majority leader in the house!
Nothing like setting an example
(he's george soros' sock puppet & megaphone)
case in point: PC