Dartmouth Muslim student spreads falsehoods about Qur'an, Spencer

As with the Brown story, this story from the Dartmouth college newspaper is accompanied by a bogeyman photo obviously designed to portray me as a Hitlerian rabble-rouser. There was a campus photographer at the Darmouth talk who was, I was told, taking "hundreds" of photos. I responded at the time that he was no doubt taking so many pictures so he could find one that made me look as bad as possible. And here we are.

Anyway, in the story, a Muslim student blandly retails falsehoods about what the Qur'an says, and where I stand. More comments below.

"‘Islamo-fascism’ speaker met with controversy," by Thomas Bukowski in TheDartmouth.com (thanks to Harrison Sonntag):

Robert Spencer, director of Jihad Watch and author of two New York Times bestsellers on Islamic jihad, gave a speech to an audience of around 70 in Dartmouth Hall on Friday on the subject of “Islamo-fascism.” Amid much controversy over the week’s advertising, the keynote speech received a standing ovation and was the concluding event of “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” at the College.

During his speech, Spencer called on the audience to end the silence on the subject of what he called Islamo-fascism.

“Now is the time for every person of conscience to call what oppression and injustice are —- oppression and injustice,” Spencer said. “That’s why we need Islamo-fascism Awareness Week.”

Chloe Mulderig ‘05, who identifies as a “moderate Muslim” and works for the anthropology department, said that Dartmouth disagrees with Spencer’s assertion that Dartmouth needs such a week.

“Part of their agenda is to illicit [sic] a response, but we’re smarter than that,” Mulderig said. “Debate about terrorism is very important, but Robert Spencer is unfortunately bringing hate speech on campus and hates Islam itself.”

Of course, no evidence is offered for this. I ask anyone and everyone, including Chloe Mulderig, to listen to the talk I gave at Dartmouth and to come up with even a single example of "hate speech."

Spencer defended the term “Islamo-fascism” and denied that the term equates Islam to terrorism. He added that terms such as Italian and German fascism used during World War II did not apply to the entire populations of Italy or Germany.

“Saying that Islamo-fascism tars all Muslims simply defies all common sense,” he said.

Spencer said that there was a growing movement of fundamentalist Muslims within the Islamic world who are “claiming the mantle of Islamic purity”.

“Without an authority on who can say what is ‘true Islam’ and when they can base their words on the Koran, then it can and does have a great effect on the Islamic world.”

Spencer claimed that Al-Qaeda and Hamas, who feel “the need for waging war against Christians and Jews until they submit,” sprang from this disagreement about the finer details of Islam.

Spencer also emphasized that in the society that jihadists would implement, women would be one of main groups to suffer .

Though Mulderig was impressed by Spencer’s knowledge of Islamic theology, she questioned the accuracy of his comments concerning the Koran in regards to women.

“[Spencer’s assertion] that the Koran says it is okay to beat women is incorrect and offensive,” she said.

Is that so?

Qur'an 4:34 tells men to beat their disobedient wives after first warning them and then sending them to sleep in separate beds. This is, of course, an extremely controversial verse, so it is worth noting how several translators render the key word here, وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ, waidriboohunna.

Pickthall: “and scourge them”
Yusuf Ali: “(And last) beat them (lightly)”
Al-Hilali/Khan: “(and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful)”
Shakir: “and beat them”
Sher Ali: “and chastise them”
Khalifa: “then you may (as a last alternative) beat them”
Arberry: “and beat them”
Rodwell: “and scourge them”
Sale: “and chastise them”
Daryabadi: "and beat them"
Asad: “then beat them”

Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Al-Hilali/Khan, Shakir, Sher Ali, Khalifa, Daryabadi and Asad are Muslims. Are their translations all "incorrect and offensive"?

Laleh Bakhtiar, in a new translation that has received wide publicity, translates Qur'an 4:34 as “go away from them.” In light of this unanimity among the translators, both Muslim and non-Muslim, this seems difficult to sustain – all of these authorities got the passage wrong until Bakhtiar? But her impulse is understandable, as many Muslims today regard this verse with acute embarrassment. Asad adduces numerous traditions in which Muhammad “forbade the beating of any woman,” concluding that wife-beating is “barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided.”

Unfortunately, however, this is not a unanimous view. Sheikh Syed Mahmud Allusi in his commentary Ruhul Ma’ani gives four reasons that a man may beat his wife: “if she refuses to beautify herself for him,” if she refuses sex when he asks for it, if she refuses to pray or perform ritual ablutions, and “if she goes out of the house without a valid excuse.”

But Mulderig would apparently prefer to pretend that I made this up rather than deal with Muslim approval of wife-beating.

Muldering also wished that a speaker without an agenda was brought in to ignite discussion about terrorism.

“Though a part of Spencer’s agenda is to increase awareness [of terrorism], the other part is to hate on Muslims,” she said.

Once again: prove it. These are false and libelous charges. I argued during the talk that peaceful Muslims were among the victims of jihadists who deem them insufficiently Muslim. It is an act of hate to make false and libelous charges against someone one opposes. Mulderig should back it up if she can, or retract it.

In the question and answer session following the speech, Spencer was asked by a member of the audience if having an Islamo-fascism Awareness Week meant that the College should also have a week for other countries, including a “CIA-fascism awareness week”.

“You guys have that every week here,” Spencer replied, a comment that was met with applause from the mostly-conservative audience.

Spencer was introduced by Professor Meir Kohn of the economics department, who highlighted how the effects of Islamo-fascism was brought to the world’s attention by Sept. 11, 2001 and criticized the ambivalent view of Islamo-fascism by the “left”.

“Marxism currently exists in only three places: North Korea, Cuba and American universities,” said Kohn. He went on to call the academic left a “watered-down version of Marxism.”

Kohn also said that the silence about Islamo-fascism by the academic left is a form of passive approval, and that the front of the war for awareness of this issue is waged on American university campuses.

At one point during the speech, two Safety and Security officers came into the auditorium. They said that they were “not here in official capacity”, but there “just to make sure things were OK,” adding that they found the speech interesting.

Mulderig felt that the presence of the Safety and Security officers was the most offensive part of the event.

“The College clearly has a lot of faith in the muslim community,” she said sarcastically.

Sorry. I know Noam Chomsky and Tom Friedman could go to any campus and speak without needing guards, given the Leftist fascist thugs who dominate so many campuses today, I am not going to have faith in anyone.

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The easiest way to fight people like this guy at Dartmouth is to pass copies of the Kuran around with key violent passages underlined and SHOW people what Islam teaches first hand. Watch the horror on peoples' faces when you read the Surah 9.5 for example!

If you do this, there should NO trouble cleaning up the legacy left behind by the Islamo- Communist-fascist-leftist liars who have been spreading ghastly propaganda lies around our once-fair nation. Islam IS evil and the Kuran's innumerable verses teaching first degree murder PROVE it beyond any doubt!


Is someone running around calling YOU something heinous because you DARE condemn Islam for its diabolical doctrines? IF so, open a Kuran before your enemies' eyes and prove YOU are in the right and THEY are in the wrong!

"Chloe Mulderig ‘05, who identifies as a 'moderate Muslim'...."
-- from the article above

What made her do it? A nice Pakistani roommate, the daughter of a zamindar, with whom she shared a room in boarding school? Or perhaps a roommate now, someone who soulfully introduced her, perhaps, to the love poetry of Rumi, and made her think that this was Islam? A professor, of the MESANostran kind (google "Mesa Nostra" and "Jihad Watchb" for more) who spotted her as a vulnerable target, and instead of exploiting her in the way that some teachers used to get away with more easily, chose instead to mess with her mind? How did Chloe become a "Muslim" (moderate, forsooth!) and what's more, such a meretricious Defender of the Faith?

Is there hope for her yet? Might she actually read, and re-read, and come to understand, the texts of Islam, and then the tenets of Islam, and then the atmospherics of Islam? Give this girl a term off to study Arabic in Cairo and Damascus, or perhaps spring in Rawalpindi. The bulbuls sing beautifully that time of year.

'Debate about terrorism is very important'....

I have never seen a debate about terrorism that a muslim didn't say was 'hate speech', and the muslims called 'sensitivity training'.

Muslims to not allow debate to occur in their presence. They shout in down, interrupt it, write against it, or issue a Fatwa when it is done. All to prove they are a religion of peace and understanding.

Muslims are spending more time trying to convince us that talking about Islam by conservatives is 'hate speech' because we ask people to be accountable, as we are asking Islam to be accountable and to clean their own house.

If Islam is not able to clean their own house and is truly unaccountable, we will not come to that conclusion from a conservative, it will come from Islams lack of actions but continued assault against those that point out a cleaning is in need.

“Part of their agenda is to illicit [sic] a response, but we’re smarter than that,” Mulderig said.

And yet here she is, responding.

WSW

"Mulderig felt that the presence of the Safety and Security officers was the most offensive part of the event."
==============================================

Didn't she know that the job of Safety and Security was to escort Mr. Spencer off stage, as they did to Mr. Horowitz at Emory?

"Chloe Mulderig ‘05, who identifies as a 'moderate Muslim'...."


Should she have a change of heart and deconvert herself, she better make sure no Mu-slime is going to kill her for leaving Islam!

What made her do it?
--posited by Hugh

A handsome brown-eyed man?

Arrested on charges of terrorism,
he was sitting in the witness stand
The judge's daughter called up the district attorney
Said you free that brown eyed man
You want your job you better free that brown eyed man

Flying across the desert in a TWA,
I saw a woman walking across the sand
She been a walkin' thirty miles en route to Afghanistan
To get a brown eyed handsome man
Her destination was a brown eyed handsome man
======================
Sorry Chuck.

http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Chuck-Berry/Brown-Eyed-Handsome-Man.html

OT, but an encouraging note:

It seems it was just a few weeks ago that a blogger here noted the the sitemeter on JW ticking past 15 million. Today I saw that since then nearly 750,000 hits have been recorded. I don't know when the sitemeter started counting, but that sure looks like a great deal of traffic in just the last few weeks, no doubt spurred by the IFAW campaign and the terrific work of Robert Spencer and the other speakers.

A good sign that more and more people are at least looking into the Islamic issue.

Rafa:

"Chloe Mulderig ‘05, who identifies as a 'moderate Muslim'...."


Should she have a change of heart and deconvert herself, she better make sure no Mu-slime is going to kill her for leaving Islam!
_________________

Too late!

Another Muslim female has become the darling of the Danish Greens:

"You have to think before using freedom of expression," said the town councillor for Odense, and a member of the leftwing Red-Green Alliance.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoonprotests/story/0,,2199924,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront

"The easiest way to fight people like this guy at Dartmouth is to pass copies of the Kuran around with key violent passages underlined and SHOW people what Islam teaches first hand. Watch the horror on peoples' faces when you read the Surah 9.5 for example!" Pythagoras

This should be known as the "Pythagorean theorem" and it is a good one. Robert should bring korans with him to his talks and underline the relevant passages and hand it out to participants and ask them to read and interpret for themselves. You can also invite up the most belligerent audience member and hand them a Koran ask them to read and then ask them to explain to the group what was read. It is also a good idea to use a CAIR koran so the novelty of the trick will be even more brillant.

"a bogeyman photo designed to portray me as a Hitlerian rabble-rouser."....LOL!

The photo does have that air about it. Next time keep your hands in your pocket :-)

All things considered, at least Spencer and Meir Kohn were directly quoted in the article so that their positions were accurately reported.

Hahaha!

Chuck Berry! If only!

One Robert Spencer is worth far more than all of the Muslim apologists and their useful-idiot allies who are found at colleges and universities across America. The truth, a very stubborn thing as Ronald Reagan observed, cannot be kept from the American people much longer, in part because of folks like Mr. Spencer, whom I think of as a great American.

Muslims in America and across the world must own up to the fact that Islam is a death cult for a certain percentage of Muslims who don't get their way. Unless Muslims en masse acknowledge this and take steps to end the inherent violence rooted in Islamic ideology, the numbers will grow exponentially of people who will look upon Islam with disgust and contempt. And thanks to courageous folks like Robert Spencer, Bat Ye'or and Ibn Warraq, the truth about Islam is being made known at last.

As for the academic left in this country, eat your collective heart out. You're lining up on the wrong side of history yet again. How dumb can you get.

Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Al-Hilali/Khan, Shakir, Sher Ali, Khalifa, and Asad are Muslims. Are their translations all "incorrect and offensive"?

Yes. They are 'incorrect and offensive' when a non-Muslim talks about it. But if little Cloe doesn't like to hear it from a kuffar then perhaps she can log on to youtube and hear it from the Islamic clerics themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp3Eam5FX58&eurl=http://www.bigpicweblog.com/exp/index.php/weblog/comments/muslim_cleric_on_tv_describes_the_correct_method_for_wife_beatings_i

This ongoing pretend la-la land assertions by people that Islam is not directly responsible for Jihad terrorism & disgusting treatment of women is such a blatant example of a world wide delusion, how could anybody straight doubt the point of biblical prophecy of a strong delusion descending upon the world that people everywhere should so easily except lies?

"Those with ears let them hear".

Robert notes one recent Koran translator being quite innovative with 4:34

"Laleh Bakhtiar, in a new translation that has received wide publicity, translates Qur'an 4:34 as “go away from them.” In light of this unanimity among the translators, both Muslim and non-Muslim, this seems difficult to sustain – all of these authorities got the passage wrong until Bakhtiar? But her impulse is understandable, as many Muslims today regard this verse with acute embarrassment."


Noteworthy though this is, it eclipsed for sheer cheek by Thomas Cleary who, in his "The Essential Koran: An Introductory Selection of Readings From the Qur'an" manages to select it out altogether.

He gives selections from this Surah up to verse 32, omits verses 33-35 altogether, then recommences at verse 36.

It is a writer's prerogative to select what surahs and verses he wishes, but when a careful reader compares his selection with the complete Koran he will see that Cleary has totally omitted the key problemmatic aggressive Surahs 8 and 9. In addition, all those parts of Surahs 2 and 3 that are critical of Jews and Christians don't make the cut either, so eager is Cleary to present Islam in a positive light.

Other examples of this sanitizing of Islam can be given. Only when the Arabic Koran is similarly radically reinterpreted and parts omitted, for Muslim readers and reciters, might we suspect that at last Islam has found a back door to escape from certain difficult passages in its key texts.

Sheik yer'mami, can you imagine the outrage if an American went on O'Reilly or CNN and expressed these ideas? It would be on the news for six months.

Abdullah Aal Mahmud's words need to be transcribed and read aloud in both houses of congress.

Robert,

You didn't get beat up real bad by the reporter. Actually, considering this is on an American campus, and who that means the author's audience is, I actually think it was a generous review. I mean, look at the general level of awareness of the real truth on the issue one month ago, and look what level is now after your visit (and the reporter's coverage, "friendly" coverage, from his reader's standpoint). All in all, it is gain. The light of the truth has claimed some more of the darkness of ignorance. Well, done, sir.

The Islamic Center In Cincinnati Ohio prescribes beating your wife if she is disobedient. Are they Islamophobes as well? More here:
http://markedmanner.blogspot.com/2007/10/islamic-center-of-cincinnati-remedy-for.html

I had some article on FGM on my blog a while ago and a couple of Muslimah's took it upon themselves to inform me how 'unislamic' this abhorrent practice is, that it is mostly practised by Christians and pagans (sic!) and how they really hate the subject since it turns people away from Islam. One of them even suggested that Sikhs practice it (they don't) - so what it amounts to is they weasel and lie and deny and get really pissed off when they don't succeed.

One would hope that they somehow drop the whole thing and turn away from Islam, but with apostates getting a death-sentence fat chance...

From an analysis I wrote last year at Revuse:


Perhaps modern-day mainstream Muslim scholars have found a theological basis to condemn—rather than condone—any level of domestic violence?
Liyakatali Takim, a Muslim Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Denver, answered this question on an Internet mailing list "consisting of scholars who answer questions about Islam" in 1995. As Takim writes, the Qur'an advocates that a man first try two non-violent approaches for preserving "marital harmony": verbal admonishment followed by withholding of sex. Then,

as a last resort, very light form of physical correction is to be undertaken...Indeed, all commentators are in agreement that the third form of corrective measure should be undertaken only as a last resort and should be very mild.
Feel better?

"a very light form of physical correction..."

And I suppose this is open to interpretation as well?

Remember the bartender in The Shining:

"My daughters misbehaved, so I... corrected them. When my wife tried to stop me, I... corrected her, too."

"...the Qur'an advocates that a man first try two non-violent approaches for preserving "marital harmony": verbal admonishment followed by withholding of sex."

LOL!!! How moronic!! Nothing like a lttle verbal admonishment and sexual deprivation to bring about "marital harmony". The Qur'an has it backwards on SO many levels.

A Google search on Chloe Mulderig reveals:

o She received a Reynolds Fellowship somehow associated with "MPhil in Modern Middle Eastern Studies, University of London, UK"

o She smokes a water pipe from Morocco: http://www.dartmouthindependent.com/archives/2005/04/clash_of_the_ho.html
"Chloe Mulderig ‘05 notes: 'To me, the hookah is not only a mode of recreation, but a way of taking part in traditional Middle Eastern practices. I brought my hookah home from Morocco, and it is a part of my experience as a Muslim and an aficionado of Maghrebi Culture.'"

o She lived in Morocco for some time:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~thepress/read.php?id=855

This may or may not be off topic, but I cannot resist posting this.

While serching Ask Imam for fatwas concerning wife beating, I found this gem.

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=4398

"Im a man who desires to be beaten up during sex (BDSM) is it Islamically correct to do it?" Unknown, 2001-12-15

Answer:

"Every form of permissible intimacy between the husband and wife is a mutual one with mutual understanding and agreement. If the husband and wife mutually agree on "BDSM", that is their choice, for which there is no prohibition in Shariah."

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai FATWA DEPT.

I am wondering if Mr Desai even knows what BDSM means.

"Mulderig felt that the presence of the Safety and Security officers was the most offensive part of the event."

The thought process that produces a statement like this is the same process that accuses westerners of islamophobia.

from an earlier post:

"o She lived in Morocco for some time"

If Mulderig is a blonde, I can't help but indulge the speculation that perhaps she was kidnapped from a vacation somewhere in the Iberian Peninsula & carried away to Morocco, there to be reared in the ways of islam.

The easiest way to fight people like this guy at Dartmouth is to pass copies of the Kuran around with key violent passages underlined and SHOW people what Islam teaches first hand. Watch the horror on peoples' faces when you read the Surah 9.5 for example!


pythagoras,

Good idea, But I think a little booklet containing those key violent passages (from both the Koran and Ahadieth) might be a better idea. Anything with too many pages might frighten them off. 10-15 pages would just about do, and shouldn't tax their brains to much.

Suggested title: "Quotes to ask your Muslim Friends about."

Would be great entertainment to listen to Muslims try to squirm their way through an explanation.

Rational, as soon as a booklet with excerpts is prepared and handed out, they will play the Out of Context Card.

It's like playing Three Card Monte, you can't win.

The only Mulderig at Dartmouth that I found is Mary C. Mulderig. Based on the surname she is either not married, married to a filthy infidel, or she is a convert.

"Asad adduces numerous traditions in which Muhammad 'forbade the beating of any woman,' concluding that wife-beating is 'barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided.'”--from above

It's too bad Mohammed didn't always practice what he preached, at least as it came to his own self-restraint. Here's a little snippet from the hadith from Sahih Muslim (4:2127)

"He (Mohammed) said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I (Aisha) said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?"

Uswa-hasana?

I found one -

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=482&ln=eng&txt=beat

A woman was complaining about the abuse meted out by her husband. Here are some excerpts from the answer:

"Avoid making him angry (although you asked me not to say this, I cannot avoid giving this advice)."

"Think about your husband’s positive aspects - his religion or his relationship with you or his spending, or the fact that he does not hit you on the face, and so on. Perhaps this will help to reduce your negative feelings towards him."

"So face it with patience and the hope of earning reward."

Well, she should be grateful that he doesn't hit her on the face!!!

Please, go read the entire answer.

The transparent falsehoods in defense of the Koran are getting pretty shabby and threadbare.

A good sign.

As more people encounter direct quotes from the Mohammedan texts, fewer will buy the b.s.

Great job, Robert, in remaining focused and in good humor in the face of this predictable scaremongering, tedious slander and intolerant silliness.

More knowledge and more questions is the answer to this creeping and overt Jihad.

Spread the dread.

With a smile.

"He (Mohammed) said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I (Aisha) said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?"

She was a real beeatch for daring to walk in front of that fiend muhammad, her bad-ass husband.

How dare her walk in front of the thug muhammad?

"Rational, as soon as a booklet with excerpts is prepared and handed out, they will play the Out of Context Card."

It's like playing Three Card Monte, you can't win.

Pelayo,

True, the "out of context" card would, as always, be played as their first line of defense. But it might be amusing to ask them to make up any context they liked that might make a statement like "Jews are descended from Pigs" more benign.

It would be interesting to hear what made-up context they came up with.

From Dietrich Bonhoeffer's last letter from prison:

"I am so secure of God's guiding hand that I hope I shall always be kept in that certainty. You must never doubt that I am traveling with gratitude and cheerfulness along the road I'm being led. My past life is brim-full of God's goodness, and my sins are covered by the forgiving love of Christ crucified. I am most thankful for the people I have met, and I only hope that they never have to grieve about me, but that they, too, will always be certain of, and thankful for, God's mercy and forgiveness..."-page 212-Dietrich Bonhoeffer-The Martyred Christian.

I'll bet Oriana and this fellow Bonhoeffer are rooting for Robert and asking God to make sure he will see the truth prevail. These Dartmouth propagandists are only that. The truth will prevail.

Robert said

There was a campus photographer at the Darmouth talk who was, I was told, taking "hundreds" of photos. I responded at the time that he was no doubt taking so many pictures so he could find one that made me look as bad as possible.

If they took hundreds of photos of you, and that was the most unflattering one they could come up with, consider yourself lucky.

Special-guest-

That's the difference between time and eternity. One changes, the other is unchanging.

Typical goebbelesque propaganda practice...
when substance is lacking (or in their case absent)
just tell lies about the other side.

taqqiyah at its finest
lol

taqqiyah at its finest
lol
Posted by: jcom972 at October 30, 2007 8:01 PM

You bet. It's Dart-mouth from Dartmouth.

"...the Qur'an advocates that a man first try two non-violent approaches for preserving "marital harmony": verbal admonishment followed by withholding of sex."

My guess is Muslimah can bear the burden of "withholding of sex" for a lot of reasons, clitorectomy being just one of the most obvious...

The dogs bark, but the caravan passes..............

The a-Hadith is where Islam and its moslems take the wrong turn. They rely on the a-Hadiths to guide their lives, when they should rely only upon the Torah, Bible and Koran, in rightful order.

The a-Hadiths are a "he said that she said that she said that he said". And, "I saw mohammed do this, but I saw him do that"... A disgusting game likened to the child's game of 'telephone'. The a-Hadiths are Satan's game of deception toward the moslems.

Rid the practice of Islam of its a-Hadiths, and you may just see reformation. Not in our time.

Robert:

You do seem pretty worked up in that photo.

http://thedartmouth.com/2007/10/29/news/islamofascism/

But you're going to have to do a lot better if you're going to compete in the big leagues.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42093000/jpg/_42093952_kashmir-ap416.jpg

"“Part of their agenda is to illicit [sic] a response..."
-- from the article quoting a "Muslim" and "admirer of Maghrebi culture"

A gross mistake in mental orthography or a gross mistake in pronunciation? It hardly matters.

$150,000 over four years? For what? Where are the lawyers rounding up the plaintiffs wh can claim educational malpractice? Make sure these are all class action suits -- as they should be.

See "What College Did For Me" by Robert Benchley. But he was joking.

Robert,

An excellent and direct op-ed. Without your rebuttal, his ignorant girl's comments would have undoubtedly gone unchallenged. Again, thank you so much for speaking at Dartmouth, the politically-correct atmosphere just took a huge beating. - H

ps
"Dartmouth disagrees with Spencer’s assertion that Dartmouth needs such a week." I wonder, since when did Chloe Mulderig become the spokesperson for all of Dartmouth?

"Mulderig felt that the presence of the Safety and Security officers was the most offensive part of the event.

“The College clearly has a lot of faith in the muslim community,” she said sarcastically."

.....perhaps the college has learned something about Muslim behavior from the examples the Muslims have shown in past lectures by people knowledgeable in In Islam such as R.S. and others. Tactics such as shout downs, vegetable tossing, sign carrying and outright violence have ofter been the calling cards of the Muslims who attend such lectures/speeches given by those who seek to inform the public about the Islamic grand plan...

....R.S. has never said Ban Muslim Immigration...but I do...Ban Muslim Immigration...

The interpretation of Surah 4:34 seems to be seen as "a guy thing" by some Muslim feminist academics. They might say that of course the 11 translators that Robert lists would not challenge the plain meaning of the term which is variously translated as beat, scourge or chastise - simply because they are all men. One writer (Asma Barlas) sees the task for herself and others as being:

"to challenge the theme of male privilege that male Muslims historically have read into the Qur'an while also recuperating its teachings on sexual equality. [We] do this by offering a sustained critique of the theology and the interpretive methodology that have given rise to oppressive conceptions of God and patriarchal readings of divine speech, and by re-reading the so-called misogynistic verses relating to men's alleged superiority, 'wife-beating', polygyny, judicial evidence and veiling. In addition, women's scholarship reframes our understanding of the Qu'ran's position on sexual equality and patriarchy, thus opening up the liberatory possibilities of scripture."


Amina Wadud in her latest book spends eight pages twisting and turning over the arguments surrounding 4:34, and reaches conclusions that while not as radical as the complete denial of the violence by Laleh Bakhtiar (noted by Robert above) does re-open the door of independent reasoning very wide indeed:


"...admonish them, banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then, if they obey you, seek not a way against them.

There is no getting around this one [she continues], even though I have tried through different methods for two decades. I simply do not and cannot condone permission for a man to "scourge" or apply any kind of strike to a woman. Because of the extensive time I have examined this verse, it is the best place for me to demonstrate the diverse interpretive and implementive possibilities as they have been applied through some historical examples and conditions, including my own attempts at interpretative manipulations. This leads me to clarify how I have finally come to say "no" outright to the literal implementation of this passage. This also has implications in implementing the hudud (penal code) ordinances. This verse, and the literal implementation of hudud, both imply an ethical standard of human actions that are archaic and barbarian at this time in history. They are unjust in the ways that human beings have come to experience and understand justice, and hence unacceptable to universal notions of human dignity...[...]

"Therefore the application of the verse as permission for a man to strike his wife must be rejected. To say "no" to this verse now simply exemplifies the process or trajectory throughout the history of textual interpretation and application. From the cultural context of the text, with the precedent of the Prophet - against such a practice - through the restriction of fiqh conditions, and the manipulation of interpretive multiplicity, we finally arrive at a place where we acknowledge that we intervene with the text. The next step is to admit that we are continuing the process of intervention between text and meaning, as believers in Allah and in revelation. It provides a means to reject literal application of this text and certain other textual particulars altogether.

"What I am proposing is that the collective community has always manipulated the text in concert with civilizational, or, better still, human development. We must now simply acknowledge that it has always been done and accept the responsibility of agency in doing so openly and in consultation with the community. Since we live in the time when at least the conceptualization of women's complete human agency and equality between women and men is conceivable, then we must dance the delicate dance between text and agency to assert a movement of complete gender justice. I have already argued significantly that the text can be interpreted with egalitarianism in mind; I now propose one step that some consider as beyond even that. We are the makers of textual meaning. The results of our meaning-making is the reality we establish from those meanings to human experiences and social justice. We need to make the text mean more for women's full human dignity than it has been conceived to do or applied toward at any other time in Muslim history. Our motivation to do so, however, is fully within the framework of Islam as a meaning-making system of social justice..."


A development well worth watching, I suggest.

Of course, no evidence is offered for this. I ask anyone and everyone, including Chloe Mulderig, to listen to the talk I gave at Dartmouth and to come up with even a single example of "hate speech."

Actually, I don't think you will find even a single example of "hate speech" anywhere.

The phrase really has no meaning or exact definition really, because it is merely a political tool that serves to silence those with whom one disagrees politically.

You could say "I love you," and be accused of "hate speech" in some circles because what you said could be interpreted as "verbal assult" or "harrasment."

What constitutes "hate speech" comes down to who is doing the interpreting and if they can merely claim that their "feelings" were hurt or they "felt" threatened -- your done.

So in the PC-Multiculturist court of public opinion, once the accusation is made without evidence, you won't be able to reason your way to victory -- that was the old order of things; this, the new.

sheik yer booty...a picture says a thousand words, in this case two pictures...lol...

MBR quoted Amina Wadud:

There is no getting around this one, even though I have tried through different methods for two decades [...] Therefore the application of the verse as permission for a man to strike his wife must be rejected. To say "no" to this verse now simply exemplifies the process or trajectory throughout the history of textual interpretation and application. etc. etc. etc.

It is very instructive to see the effort required by those few who want to abrogate some of the more offensive verses of the Qur'an. It is also very instructive to see the efforts that are being made, and how ineffective those efforts are. Amina's dissertation sounds perfectly rational (if naive) to my Western ears, and it will assuredly be disregarded out of hand by mainstream Muslim clerics. It is as beautiful and as efficacious as when Thailand launched a campaign of dropping origami as a message of peace over its "restive" Muslim regions in the south. This is a development worth watching, I hope JW/DW covers this sort of effort, and whatever results it generates, more often. Knowing what happens to people, especially women, who try to transform Islam into something not quite as threatening would be informative.

So lets see if I got this right.

The idiots at "National Project to Defend Dissent & Critical Thinking in Academia" are defending dissent and critical thinking on campus by trying to shut down someone who is dissenting and critically thinking.

Oh, I get it now. Dissent and critical thinking is OK as long as you dont disagree the (oxymorons) at NPTDD&C!!!

How silly of me.

PS: I just went to their website and asked them via email to explain this conundrum......bet I dont hear back.







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