Fitzgerald: Please explain

In this article in The American Muslim, Sheila Musaji decries “a rash of supposed Muslims or pseudo-Muslims (at least they have Muslim names) using the [the Jewish Voices for Peace Petition against intolerance and Islamophobia] petition site as a means to leave derogatory comments about Jews, Christians, America, etc.”

The “Pseudo-Muslim” entered on the petition site actual quotes from Ahmad Bahr, acting Palestinian Legislative Council Speaker; Mahmoud Al Hasan of the Hezb-ul-Mujahedeen, a group aligned to the Jamaat-e-Islami party of Pakistan; Dr. Ismail Radwan, who spoke on official Palestinian TV on March 30, 2007; Anjem Choudary, a Muslim leader in the UK; and Ahmad Bahr again.

Let's pretend that "Pseudo-Muslim" is a real Muslim, and not a non-Muslim, or an apostate, determined to quite cleverly show up the whole thing -- which is what Sheila Musaji may not quite understand, or she may confusedly understand. In other words, let us pretend that "Pseudo-Muslim" is actually a Muslim, like Sheila Musaji herself, and doesn't quite know what to do with the quotes from important figures who are Muslim that show up all that interfaith feelgood nonsense of the petition.

Here would be a comment if one were to assume that the commenter was Muslim, writing in embarrassed and terminally confused good faith. Embarrassed, apparently, and determined out of filial piety to misrepresent Islam to others and, most importantly, to himself. For those whose views this writer claims do "not represent Islam" do represent it. They represent what is contained in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira very well. They reflect the behavior of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, not at all inaccurately. Those imams and sheikhs who are quoted, and whom the writer deplores, are not bad Muslims, not misguided Muslims. They are Muslims in a great tradition. Their views were acted upon, over 1350 years, from Spain to the East Indies.

It is the Muslim writer who misinforms Infidels as to the nature of Islam, in the best case out of her own ignorance and naivete. The more likely case is that she does so out of a desire not to see what anyone can see, if they choose without parti pris to study the texts of Islam, the 1350-year history of Islamic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims, and the present-day behavior and attitudes of Muslims around the world, especially in Dar al-Islam. For there they need not hide their real views. They need not pretend that Islam is all sweetness and light, as does this Muslim writer, supposedly anguished about those whom she ludicrously calls "Pseudo-Muslims." She carefully refrains from showing us, quoting sura and ayat, in what way those "Pseudo-Muslims" are indeed "psuedo" and not the real thing.

Sheila Musaji needs to read Ali Sina, Ibn Warraq, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan. They were all born into Islam. They were all raised in Muslim milieus. They have all testified as to what Muslims say in front of Infidels, and what they say when they think they are among only fellow Muslims.

Who is the "Pseudo-Muslim"? Is it #1513 Bahr Ahmad Bahr of Gaza "Palestine," the acting "#1525, Mahmoud Al Hasan of Pakistan, the leader of the Hezb-ul-Mujahedeen? Is it #1527 Dr. Ismail Radwan of Gaza, "Palestine"? Or #1528, Anjem Choudary, Attorney of London, UK?

Well, Sheila Musaji is angry. She is angry, supposedly, at those whose words are quoted. But she is also angry at "the person who did this." What does she mean by that? She is angry at the very intelligent poster -- apostate or non-Muslim -- who was sick of the nonsense and lies that the musajis of this world peddle about Islam, never taking the time to show us how the texts contradict the bloodcurdling stuff that has been put right on the phony petition where the unfoolable and also the naive will have a chance to read those words from Chaudry and Baur and Hassan and others, and realize what a crock the whole thing is.

Sheila Musaji ends telling us that the people quoted do not "represent any Muslims I know, and they certainly don’t represent Islam." Well, she should tell us how she knows this. Because these are not people writing in a void. In some cases, as with the "Palestinians" quoted, they are leaders, and all of them are prominent among Muslims. And does she not know what Saudi sheiks and imams declare every day on Saudi television? Has she not read what the Sheik al-Azhar has written -- the informal head of Sunni Islam's religious education? Or what the late Ayatollah Khomeini has written? (Google "Ayatollah Khomeini" and "Jihad Watch" and "Kill them.") Or what Al-Qaradawi has said about suicide bombing? Or what tens of thousands of Muslim clerics have said, are saying, every day to hundreds of millions of Muslims?

Or for that matter, what does Sheila Musaji make of the texts of Islam? Start with 9.29 or a dozen others, or a hundred others listed in the Calcutta Qur'an Petitiion, and Sheila Musaji, PLEASE EXPLAIN.

We're all ears. 5.5 billion non-Muslims (yes, we too can count) are all ears. We're waiting for the explanation.

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....poor Sheila Musaji , trying so hard to mislead the infidels...she must really hate it when the infidels already know the truth about Islam and the infidels aready know a lot about who's who in the Muslim world...

Sheila Musaji NOT getting it illustrates a mirror image of why Evangelical Christians on average, seem more savy to the dangers of Islam.

Evangelical Christians are text oriented. They believe a particular book is holy and inspired by God, and as such, they fashion their behavior in accordance to the teachings of the book. If one has such a framework, it is easier to understand the dangers of Islam. To an evangelical Christian, it is very believable and understandable that someone would act in accordance with a what the person perceives to be a holy book. An evangelical Christian who peaks into a Koran is generally speaking, going to be horrified. In contrast, a mainline Protestant or less orthodox Catholic will filter out the junk using PC blinders and placing the text into a "historical" context (e.g. Christians were violent too).

Sheila is a Muslim in the same "kumbaya all we are saying give peace a chance" manner that many post-modern Westerners believe in Christianity. They don't really have an interest in any theological issues, and instead derives "being a good person" as what Christianity teaches. Sheila probably has loving parents who are Muslim, and so she associates Islam with the acts of kindness shown by her family and friends. She has likely never tried to think about any of the violence in the Koran or Hadith. It would likely be incomprehensible to her that people would base their behavior on text in a book. She is the Muslim equivalent to a secular Christian. Too bad there aren't many more like her.

I do not have many atheists or agnostics in my life, so I do not have "data points" on those individuals. I can say however, that the receptiveness to the JihadWatch message seems generally proportional to degree to which the recipient of the message takes Bible passages seriously.

For example, if the person I am trying to approach has in the past really thought about challenging verses such as a rich man passing through the eye of needle, pulling the plank out of your own eye, better for him never to have been born, etc. then the individual is almost always receptive to the message of Jihadwatch. If the individual is not the type to think about Bible passages, they inevitably seem to tolerate what I am saying without buying into it.

Just an annectdotal observation. Again, I don't have many agnostics or atheists in my circle of family/friends.

OKLAHOMA CITY — An Oklahoma lawmaker is objecting to getting a copy of the Koran from the Governor's Ethnic American Advisory Council.

"I object to the use of the state Centennial Seal and the state Seal all in an effort to further their religion," state Representative Rex Duncan said Monday.

Duncan also wrote his colleagues that he rejected the gift because "most Oklahomans do not endorse the idea of killing innocent women and children in the name of ideology."

Marjaneh Seirafi-Pour, chairwoman of the governor's council and a Muslim, said she received a call from Duncan wondering whether state money was used to buy the books.

She told the Tulsa World newspaper that members of the Muslim community paid for the copies.

"We are not trying to force anything on anyone. This is a peaceful, thoughtful project to introduce ourselves to leaders," she said.

Earlier, lawmakers also received a copy of the Bible sponsored by The Baptist General Convention in Oklahoma.

"Mine is proudly on my desk on the Capitol and I don't think I ever read a part of it that condones the killing of women and children in furtherance of God's word," Duncan said. "It's one of the nicest things I've received in my three years in the Legislature."

I confess. I am the one who posted these entries on the "Jewish Voice for Peace" petition and I am the one that Sheila calls a "pseudo-muslim" I could not resist after seeing what their petition said (it was totally hatemongering) and the naivete and rascism of most of the peoples' commenting (#1415 in true bolshevik colors demanded that horwitz and his buddies be jailed). By the way, I consider myself a real "Jewish Voice for Peace" and not a pseudo JVP of that website. I live in a town adjacent to the Security Wall (thank God for the wall) near Kfar Saba. If I could be guaranteed that a peace with an Arab entity in Judea/Samaria/Gaza would be like between the US and Canada or between Switzerland and the EU then I would be the first to acknowledge it. Unfortunately I do not see it happening, amd since I am not suicidal I feel we Israelis must take precautions. (Security Fence, Targeted killings, etc.) I think Sheila and her like are caught between a rock and a hard place - they have to "toe the party line" from a certain point or face the consequences, so it is easier for them to play the Kumbaya interfaith circuit.

I've been thinking about the koran in the last few days, and came up with an equation like Physics (obvisously, a short term for Physical Science")"

+ and - = 0

Mecca verses vs. Medina verses = 0
+ and - = 0


ergo there is no validity in the koran!!!

it's all a lot of chutzpah from the "clowns"!


Did I get that right? He, he, he!

Allat:

Satire works a lot better if there is actually something witty about it. Even "Rageboy" could have done better than your effort.

Oh come on... you guys do know these "signatures" were entirely satirical petition graffiti by the lizardoid army?

Charles sicked the lizard army on their petition yesterday.

Currently the petition has 165 signatures. That seems kind of low, doesn’t it? Maybe we should help them out?
MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yes please explain...

http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.aspx?mid1=674&&ArticleID=23465&&name=n&&currPage=1

"Islam was seen as a major challenge to Christianity from the beginning, not because it was new and different, but because it was too similar to the traditions of Christianity and Judaism," he said.

What exactly is so similar, just wondering?

doh! Wrong linky above... Take 2

Charles sicked the lizard army on their petition yesterday;

Currently the petition has 165 signatures. That seems kind of low, doesn’t it? Maybe we should help them out?
MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

allat said

Mecca verses vs. Medina verses = 0
+ and - = 0 ergo there is no validity in the koran!!!

As a purveyor of, and dare I say expert in, humor that is not funny, I take my hat off to you sir. That is the most unfunny humor I have read in a very long time. "He he he" indeed!

Muslims really love blaming the victim. The American Muslim writer claims that the posts were by Islamophobes (probably Jews and neocons, of course) or pseudo-Muslims, which means? Pseudo-Muslims are Muslims Muslims admire and agree with, except when it's time to make a public statement to the Infidels. It's just part of the jihadi strategy of Muslims of tactical deception. The appearance of being a moderate is just a lie. Islam is not a moderate religion and no real Muslim would ever honestly think that another Muslim who makes a statement consistent with or even directly based on the Koran and Hadiths, etc. could ever be anything but a true Muslim. Pseudo-Muslims, indeed - just a term for mass consumption on the Internet where Infidels are reading. In private, Ms. Musaji feels differently.

"doh! Wrong linky above... Take 2

Charles sicked the lizard army on their petition yesterday;

Currently the petition has 165 signatures. That seems kind of low, doesn’t it? Maybe we should help them out?
MWUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

I am not sure if this is a good idea. Charles is often immature (his obsession with Daily Kos, his polls and sending people out to bias polls) and many of his lizardoids are even more mature. Sometimes their herd mentality ends up doing more damage to the anti-jihad cause than good, confirming stereotypes.

Meanwhile, Robert Spencer is calm and has not even sued CAIR or others when he would have very strong grounds for defamation suits. He is a scholar and actually writes books and gets out there, like Horowitz and Pipes, to confront the lefties and Islamists.

Excellent essay Hugh. Simple and straightforward about the shortcomings of Ms. Musaji. She is an example of the most egregious kind, attempting to kill the messenger, without adequately killing the message sent or moreso, the message to be sent.

The petition, as it were, was appropriately squashed by the LGF crowd, as "terp mole" relayed, and rightly so. The author of the linked post did not bother to examine, or simply willfully chooses not to bother to examine, the "potential" message that Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week offers.

We here at JW are well aware of the substance of this expedition, and most, if not all agree with it. We however, who have to endure the likes of Ahmadinejad at Columbia, who Horowitz will most asseuredly redress this week, but we agree one one thing.

Let people speak in the spirit of the First Constitutional Amendment. I and others, support that concept all the time. Let people speak and then pass judgement on their respective words. In the case of the Islamists, it is a continuous rudimentary exercise in redundancy.

That being said, people like Ms. Musaji should never be allowed to squelch free speech, speech which was not yet uttered, but based on a presupposition, which in turn is professed as part on an underlying agenda. As ridiculous as the concept of non-violent "hate crime" is in the US currently, the "thought police" should have no power here. None at all.

Like any good message or story, regardless of the opposition to it, it usually spreads like wild-fire, or at least one can hope.

About to step on some uppity Christian toes here, so stand back:

JSobieski wrote: "Evangelical Christians are text oriented. They believe a particular book is holy and inspired by God, and as such, they fashion their behavior in accordance to the teachings of the book. If one has such a framework, it is easier to understand the dangers of Islam. To an evangelical Christian, it is very believable and understandable that someone would act in accordance with a what the person perceives to be a holy book. An evangelical Christian who peaks into a Koran is generally speaking, going to be horrified. In contrast, a mainline Protestant or less orthodox Catholic will filter out the junk using PC blinders and placing the text into a "historical" context (e.g. Christians were violent too)."

What you're referring to are literalist Christians, and not all evangelical Christians are. Biblical literalists tend not to be very intelligent nor educated, as they are unable to grasp the concept of "metaphor", nor the fact that the biblical words we receive, unless we can read Hebrew and/or Greek, are translations, the work of fallible human beings, and thus not 100 percent reliable.

A truly literalist Christian would, for example, have to "hate" his mother and father, as Jesus instructed his followers to do in one of the gospels. I don't think there are a lot of Christians outs there, even evangelical ones, who hate their parents, do you?

angloirishslav:

I said evangelical Christian because that is what I meant.

The focus of an evangelical Christian in very much text focused. I did not say and did not mean to imply that they were literalists. In fact, by citing the admonition to remove the plank from your own eye before removing the speck from the eye of another it is clear that I am not operating in the land of literalism.

The contrast I was drawing was between Bible focused Christianity and post-modern Kumbaya Christianity.

More importantly, the comparison I was drawing was between people who engage in a rather shall religious experience. Sheila Musaji is not concerned with what the Koran says any more than some Christians I know would pick up the Bible.

Sobieski:

I'm aghast that you should have taken my comment as sarcasm. What was I supposed to be sarcastic about?

What I said had nothing to do with the article, but cogitations about the koran, that I've had for the last few days.

In truth, our struggle against islam must take form in every way, (except as a form of self-defense upon being physically attacked). If the form of struggle is mockery, or laughter against the moslems, then so be it! It has been dully noted even in this website, that islamics have no sense of humor, and get angry at the drop of a hat, i.e. if one looks at them in a manner they don't like the islamics get offended and have tamtrums., like little children that don't get their way.

I''ll repeat the equations, and it applies to the koran.

In this physical world, at least, when you have a zero then adds a one, then subtracts the one, you get zero. In the koran, the mecca verses were put forth, then the medina verses were brought forward, abrogating the mecca verses, so that does one get? NOTHING! The koran is not worth the paper it's written on - a waste of trees.

CORRECTIONS: "In truth, our struggle against islam must take form in every way EXCEPT violence, (however, one MUST defend oneself one our loved ones upon being physically attacked by the rabble in the marketplace).

JSobieski I agree, but I would also add that Westerners in general have come to prioritize those verses more so than Jesus’ other cautionary teachings. The kumbaya feel-good everyone-do-what-you-want anyone-who-takes-a-stand-against-something-not-Western-is-a-criminal attitude is the menace that took hold of the West in a quiet revolution in the mid-20th century. Sad to say it was lead by all Western governments, and now it is propagated through the media and academia.


I also agree with your equation allat (in theory,) but don’t mistake nothingness for innocence or harmlessness. Also, don’t forget Muslims also adhere to the Hadith, and other Islamic traditions and rules.

Ofcourse:

Ofcourse! Anything to bother the islamics and get them riled up! It was also a joke!

I sort of got my equation for the white powder gold formula of : gold balanced against itself on a balance scale:

0+1=1-1=0


Allat

Quoth JSobieski:

I do not have many atheists or agnostics in my life, so I do not have "data points" on those individuals. I can say however, that the receptiveness to the JihadWatch message seems generally proportional to degree to which the recipient of the message takes Bible passages seriously.
Confirmed atheist here, and I take Jihad Watch very seriously (just to confound your stereotype).

Part of this is that I have learned that irrationalism of any stripe (including Christian irrationality) is a dangerous servant and a terrible master, and I've seen enough to satisfy me that "no greater retrograde force in the world" currently exists worse than Islam.  Not even the crypto-Marxist hordes of Political Correctness, because they at least are afraid to take up arms if you give them the ridicule they so richly deserve.







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