This is perfectly consonant with the Islamic worldview. The earth belongs to Allah and His Messenger Muhammad -- which means, in human terms, those who are the Believers in Allah and that Messenger. Everyone else must either convert, be killed, or in some cases be permitted to live, but only in a condition of permanent humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity, as "dhimmis."
Nothing else has value. Nothing else is of interest. And since everyone since time began -- a nice bit of backdating -- is in the Muslim view born a Muslim, but for one reason or another falls away (talk about a bad environment!) -- every claim by those of other faiths are meaningless.
Sometimes you smash the Bamiyan Buddhas, when you can finally get the right dynamite, after a thousand years of smashing Buddhist stupas, and Hindu temples, all over Asia. Sometimes you turn a church, or many churches, into foundations for mosques (see the Umayyad Mosque in Damascus), or turn the whole thing, merely by adding minarets, into a mosque (see the Hagia Sophia), taking care to break off all the crosses and vandalizing any pictures that depict persons. Sometimes you simply deny the claim altogether, as in the case of the Temple Mount.
This statement is not a strange one. It is one that almost every single "Palestinian" and for that matter, if asked, hundreds of millions of Muslims, would agree with. It is the "Palestinians" who own the Land of Israel. It is they who were always there, since time immemorial, tilling the soil. Nothing about Israel has anything to do with Jews or with Christians. It is a Muslim land. It became, of course, a Muslim "land" when Muslims conquered it, and let it fall into ruin and desolation -- but it was still a Muslim "land" no matter how indifferent Muslims were to it, except as a place important, as a holy land, to Jews and to Christians, who therefore must be denied any claim to it, or any right to live in it, or even to visit it without strict permission of their Muslim masters.
When an early Umayyad caliph selected Jerusalem, selected the Temple Mount, as the site where he insisted that the "furthest mosque" (al-masjid al-aksa) mentioned in the Qur'an would be found, he was at first opposed by some Muslims. For of course there is no way to know what was meant by "the furthest mosque." He was making a geopolitical statement, a planting of the flag of Islam right in the heart of Jerusalem, right on the place, the Temple Mount, most sacred to the Jews, and in the city known to Christians as the Holy Land. It was a geopolitical statement. For Islam is not so much, or not mainly, a religion, but rather, a geopolitics, a worldview, with some features of individual worship attached. It originates in the need for marauding and conquering Arabs to both justify and promote, to themselves and to the far more advanced and numerous peoples, Christians and Jews, whom they first conquered, that conquest, and to hold out to some of them the immediate prospect of remaining not the oppressed vanquished, but part of the conquerors -- by abandoning their own faiths and becoming Muslims.
The statement by Ikrema Sabri is no different from, and is exactly consonant with, many remarks by Arafat and not only Arafat -- by Muslim Arabs and by non-Arab Muslims who deny the claims of non-Muslims to their own history, their own monuments, their own civilization.
Indeed, the sinister Tariq Ramadan does the same thing when he keeps claiming, absurdly -- he did it yet again a few weeks ago in the debate with Ibn Warraq, David Aronovich, and Douglas Murray -- that the Western world owes so much, so incredibly much, to Islam, and could hardly have existed without the contributions of the "Islamic world" and Muslims. He has it exactly backwards. It is despite Islam, despite the conquests of many lands once full of Christians, that Western Christendom managed to flourish. Or, if one wishes to find some bleak truth in Ramadan's remark, one can agree that the refugees from Islamic conquest, such as the Greek scholars who, clutching their manuscripts, fled Byzantium during the century-and-a-half before the final fall of Constantinople (May 29, 1453) helped to bring about the Revival of Learning and what is, or used to be called, the rediscovery of classical antiquity in what also used to be called (it is now, more bloodlessly, described in college courses and in professional-historical-graduate-student-speak as "the Early Modern Period") the Renaissance.
Don't overlook the basis of this claim - Mohammed's version of the 'I had a dream' speech. Apparently, in his dreams, al baraq - that winged woman-horse took him to heaven from Jerusalem. I had a dream that I drove from the White House to Ellis Island. Can I take over from the Bushies on the same basis that the Mohammedans claim the Temple Mount? ;-)
Ali Sina had a more interesting flight
"that the Western world owes so much, so incredibly much, to Islam, and could hardly have existed without the contributions of the "Islamic world" and Muslims"
Buwahahahahahaha!!!111!!!oneone!! in touch with reality? Buwahahahahahaa, thanx I needed the laugh there Captain Bassackwards.
Dore Gold has interesting discussion of this theme in "The Fight for Jerusalem"
Welp I think Laura B agrees,
First Pelosi now her...
pic
http://foehammer.net/zenphoto/albums/islam-in-america/Laura_Bush_abaya1.jpg
link
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=27685_Bad_Craziness_in_Saudi_Arabia#comments
Ugh, straight down the crapper I tell ya.
Better pic of the conversion
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/laurabushhijab.jpg
Reminds me of cannibalism.
Greetings:
Back in the joy of my Bronx youth, the Jewish man from the appartment across the hall had a heart attack and died. When I told my teacher, a Sister of Mercy nun, that I would be going to his funeral, she told me that I should go but not wear a yarmulke because that would be an act of faith and thus improper.
I guess Nancy Pelosi didn't have the Sisters of Mercy.
And let us note well that this Person of the Lie, this Ikrema Sabri, is one of those 138 Muslim 'scholars' (!!) who signed off on that incredibly arrogant and deceptive 'letter from the Muslims to the Christians' earlier this month. (I pointed out as much in my small contribution to the talkback to the Jerusalem Post article which recorded his Big Lie). Let us hope that the Pope, the Patriarchs, and other addressees of the letter, are also listening and connecting the dots.
For me, personally, the continual repetition of blatantly false statements by Muslim representatives (beginning with their blind assertion of Islam's foefic rewrites of the Torah - 'Abraham offered Ishmael, not Isaac!' - and Gospels - 'Jesus was not crucified!'), is at least as horrifying as the beheadings and bombings. It enacts in the realm of the mind, what their deeds do to the body.
The strategy is very simple: the bigger the lie, the easier it is for people to swallow. That and a keen reliance on the ignorance of history which is being perpetuated in North American schools (both Canadian and American), and the lack of training in critical thinking insures that most people will accept the lie without question.
Truly sad if you know better.
Funny how the very land rebels against islamic rule.
The desert blooms like a rose since the Jews are home again.
You followers of Mohammad should watch the movie "Jesus" with Jeremy Sisto as Jesus....the role of the "tempter" aka Satan, God of this World, etc. is very much like your allah. The "tempter" tries to convince Jesus that to die on the cross is so painful and un-necessary, just bow down and worship him and God would spare Jesus all that agony...but Jesus knew he was called from the beginning to be the "blood sacrifice" for the sins of mankind and to escape the cross was a plan that Satan tried to sell to the Savior to defeat the Creator.
@interestinconundrum
To us Christians it all reads like a book, n'est pas? Satan failed to convince Jesus to just "fall down and worship me" and in time Jesus paid with his life the debt that makes us all free. But Satan (ever relentless) wasn't finished and keeps coming back. Muhammad, Satan was successful in seducing, getting him to bow low and "heal the wound" (see Revelations) by perpetuating the lie of Jesus' martyrdom ("he was a liar and the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning" was Muhammad, the anti-Christ) and so attack the world with the Beast which is Islam.
It's so damn simple. All seen long ago in the Bible.
'ALLAH LORD OF THE WORLDS'
That's the "beast" Allah.
"Allah lord of the worlds"
He is found in Eph 6:12
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/getBible.cfm?b=Eph&c=6&v=12&version=kjv#12
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against "THE RULERS" of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
Lexicon Results for "THE RULERS" is;
kosmokratōr (Strong's G2888)
1)LORD OF THE WORLD prince of this age
a) the DEVIL and his demons
Quran [32.2] The sending down of the Book in which there is no doubt that is from the Lord of the Worlds.
Only found ONCE in the Bible;
AND NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES GOD CALL HIMSELF "LORD OF THE WORLDS"
http://cf.blueletterbible.org/search/preSearch.cfm?Criteria=ruler*+G2888
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 1
ALLAH
Lord of the Worlds in the Quran
(26 occurances in 26 verses.)
http://quran.eyesalve.org/2957.htm
Assalamau LAikum all,
I must admit that superism does not sit comfortably with me....but Allah Paak has chosen a favourate....why for example he created Kaffur who would defy his will is a subject for considerable debate and cnfusion.
Perhaps there always needs to be a black and white or a good and a bad, a life and death and muslim and kaffur..believer and non-believer.
But the question now becomes why the struggle. Does it really matter if there was a temple on the mount?....there is a Al-Qisa there now....and that's never going to change.
The Haphia is a mosque...and that will never change...that's reality!!!
Just like there is a europe today, soon there will be a eurabia...and after that it will never change....it cannot as this is Allah Paak's will.
With such powerful weapons in this day and age ...world peace is really important...many nations will have nucleur weapons in the next couple of decades....and this is really scary.
Islam is the only entity that can cement world peace....this together with the creation of sharia lite...
I don't really see what the problem is here....just recite the shahada....it's just a few words....isn't it worth it for world peace.....millions will...so you may as well.
Naseem, what part of NEVER don't you understand?
"For Islam is not so much, or not mainly, a religion, but rather, a geopolitics, a worldview, with some features of individual worship attached. It originates in the need for marauding and conquering Arabs to both justify and promote, to themselves and to the far more advanced and numerous peoples, Christians and Jews, whom they first conquered, that conquest, and to hold out to some of them the immediate prospect of remaining not the oppressed vanquished, but part of the conquerors -- by abandoning their own faiths and becoming Muslims."
- from Hugh
This is the key. So long as our leaders, both political and religious, allow the brutal ideology that is Islam hide beneath the cloak of "religion," a cloak of respectability it does not deserve - so long as they continue to blithely tout it as one of the "three great monotheistic faiths" - so long as they ignore the evidence of history and the justifications for violence and conquest provided in their "holy book" - in short, so long as they don't see Islam for WHAT IT IS, which is just as Hugh describes it - we will surely lose whatever is left of "Western Civilization" or "Christendom."
Persuading people to see the truth is vital (so thanks Hugh and Robert Spencer) but it is only half the battle. What political and religious leaders will man up and fight the other half?
Naseem,
I note with great relish that you don't include Al Andalus.
Only Islam can be practiced in Arabia, then only in Arabia should Islam be practiced.
The Haphia is a mosque...and that will never change...that's reality!!!
Naseem
Never is a long time. Islam's been around a little over 1,400 years. That's not too long. Other examples of paganism and rock worshipping lasted longer than a mere 1,400 years.
Naseem, Islam would have been able to last forever if it hadn't a) divided the world into the favored and the filty. b) allowed the use of killing and intimidation to spread itself.
Have you heard accounts of the ancient Assyrians? They were violent and bloody and killed many enemies but they didn't last long and their culture was oblitered except for some of the stones they worshipped.
The pressure's building, bitch.
The apologists for Islam point to the high level of civilization in the Muslim world when compared to that of early medieval Europe. They would be rather more convincing in their assertion, if the Muslim raids and conquests themselves were not a major cause of decline in the civilization of an already beleaguered West.The effect of the Arab conquests in the Mediterranean and their continued raids and incursions on Western Europe was severe. When the Roman Empire fell into the hands of the barbarians, there was a period of upheaval. Within a short time, however, civilization in the West began to recover. Then for a few centuries beginning with the seventh, new waves of barbarians descended on Europe. From the north seafaring Vikings began their destructive incursions and at the same time Europe was attacked from the east by nomadic horsemen from the steppes. In both of these cases the invaders were eventually contained and then absorbed into the Christian civilization of Europe. However there was a third wave of invaders from the east and south. These were, of course, the Arabs, whose religion of Islam, was a much more formidable threat and was to constitute a continuing disruptive force to western European civilization and to Byzantium. The almost permanent war, the disruption of trade and the sundering of the Mediterranean were a constant drain on the economy of Europe and retarded the full recovery of western civilization right up to the time of the Renaissance.
The Muslim invasion was a primary factor in the slow recovery of civilization in Europe after the shock resulting from the fall of Rome. According to French historian Henri Pirenne the Arab advance “changed the face of the world.” The rapid Arab advance destroyed the classical civilization of Europe and “put an end to the Mediterranean commonwealth in which it had gathered its strength.” The Arab assault upon the west continued into later centuries. The navy of the Aghlabids of North Africa (800-909), harried the coasts of Italy, France, Corsica and Sardinia and conquered Sicily in 902. There were continuing raids by Muslim corsairs seeking booty and slaves on the coasts and shipping of Western Europe. Despite this harassment, civilization in the West recovered and eventually far surpassed that of Islam.
Therefore, the temporary superiority of Muslim civilization in the seventh through the tenth century is irrelevant. Islam came into possession of the most advanced and civilized lands in the world. And after a brief period of high culture, Muslims squandered this advantage. At the same time, Muslim predation helped to cause and then to prolong the European dark ages.
Western Europe was not the only region whose civilization was retarded by Islamic aggression. Byzantium was also under constant pressure from Muslims. This may, at least partly, explain the long stagnation of Byzantine civilization. This Byzantine stagnation continued until the later middle ages. The late Byzantine renaissance that then occurred, ironically, may have been due to a deep recognition on the part of cultured Byzantines that their end at the hands of the implacable Muslims was inevitable leading them to devote resources to one final amazing effort. Without the constant Islamic attacks one can only speculate what heights the Byzantine genius might have attained. As it turned out the last Byzantine renaissance was effectively displaced to safer soil in Italy and the West. The unfortunate fate of the ancient Hindu civilization is still another example of the destructive nature of Islam with respect to adjacent cultures.
In general, any non-Muslim population subject either to razzias or to direct Muslim rule suffered from cultural atrophy. Any intellectual resources arising in such cultures were appropriated, through conversion, slavery or dhimmitude, to serve the interests of the Islamic state. In Ottoman ruled Europe there was an absence of any great achievement at the very time that the neighboring European nations were experiencing rapid advancement.
There is no "Allah." "allah" is a pagan Moon deity from pre-Islamic times, a rock idol. Arabian pagans, of which Mohammed was one, all worshipped "al-ilah" as the chief deity, along with 359 other pagan deities. Mohammed used "al-ilah," shortened to "Allah," for his claims to prophethood, which were bogus, as we all know.
But that is why Mohammed never needs to explain in the Koran who "allah" is - because pagan Arabians already worshipped "him," a rock idol.
I think they ought to bring back the Sun goddess and the 3 daughters, don't you? And we can start worshipping Zeus/Hera and Jupiter/Juno again!
.but Allah Paak has chosen a favourate....why for example he created Kaffur who would defy his will is a subject for considerable debate and cnfusion.
Perhaps there always needs to be a black and white or a good and a bad, a life and death and muslim and kaffur..believer and non-believer.
But the question now becomes why the struggle. Does it really matter if there was a temple on the mount?....there is a Al-Qisa there now....and that's never going to change.
The Haphia is a mosque...and that will never change...that's reality!!!
unfortunately to Muslims history and reality and rewriting history seemed to be one and the same in fact it is verified records from the time the Romans one that Muslims have not managed to destroy show in fact the temple was there until the Jewish people rebelled against the Roman conquerors and Muslims need to remember as much they dislike it the vote taken by all members of the Israeli armed forces that Masada will not fall again and if they wanted to they could take all Muslims off the site of their holiest temple and take it back they've only claimed it for a 1700 years for other records show that the Jews were there with their capital and temple over a thousand years before the cult of Islam was founded by pedophile would be profit
Just like there is a europe today, soon there will be a eurabia...and after that it will never change....it cannot as this is Allah Paak's will.
Islamists second-grade hero Al Hitler said the same thing about the third Reich funny there is no sign of the third Reich or the thousand year Reich today so don't mistake European People's tolerance for other religions and desire for peace to be carte blanche to allow this cult of Islam to take over
With such powerful weapons in this day and age ...world peace is really important...many nations will have nucleur weapons in the next couple of decades....and this is really scary.
the Western nations have had nuclear weapons for over 50 years and not use them yet the Islamic nation of Iran if they get nuclear weapons apparently planned to use them again Israel why is because the State of Israel exists on land Muslims claim and why they claim it because in their worldview all lands belong to their Moon God a.k.a.allha
Islam is the only entity that can cement world peace....this together with the creation of sharia lite...
I don't really see what the problem is here....just recite the shahada....it's just a few words....isn't it worth it for world peace.....millions will...so you may as well.
because most of us do not choose to call a cult than as killed and maimed and murdered and sold slaves in the market from wars of conquest as our religion your so-called faith is not growing as fast as it says and frankly anyone who wants to become a Muslim or force myself to recite the shahada had better be prepared to be at least 500 area downrange because it had run the other direction or be shot in the back while running away like all cowards and Muslims are so take your PC idiocy and and moved over to Saudi Arabia and see how long you like living under sharia law
Posted by: Naseem
One day Islam will be gone ... that is reality. Islam relies on a totalitarian control on its history in order to maintain the internal belief in its moral supremacy. With the Internet and modern communication all totalitarian systems will find it difficult to "maintain the big lie." As Islam continues it violent assault on everything that is not Islam, the pressure will build for a global multilateral crusade against it. It took we Christians 400 years to finally have enough of Islamic brutality before we rightly engaged in the Crusades. In the future, multiple religions along with various secularists will finally deal with Islamic totalitarianism. In time, Islam will be gone, because humanity will not put up with an inhumane and totalitarian religion. That is reality, Naseem. You and your religion are nothing because Mohammad was a liar and Allah is no god at all. That is reality ... that is the truth.
Naseem, you should visit Bulgaria. You will see that a number of former mosques had been turned (again) into churches and even museums, and nobody, not even local Muslims, had objected. It's the same with thousands of former Muslims in the Eastern Rhodopes who have reverted to the Bulgarian Orthodox Church that their forefathers had belonged to, and live much more happily. I wish you the same.
When Christian leaders, such as the Pope, call into question Islam's basic teachings, Muslims all over the world riot, murder, and burn churches. But here a prominent Muslim leader denies even the existenmce of the central site in both the Tanakh and the Gospels while Jews and Christians do nothing.
Perhap we should learn from the Muslims and borrow some of their perpetual outrage. Let thousands of Jews and Christians march on the Al-Aqsa Mosque and completely destroy it. To do this would simply be well-deserved payback for the Hagia Sophia, the Great Synagogue of Alexandria, the Bamiyan Buddhas, and the thousands of other sacred sites desecrated or destroyed by Muslim rabble.
>
Oh yeah, one last thing for Naseem... When the West has finally had enough of Muslim violence and barbarity, we WILL liberate the Hagia Sophia!
You know nothing about Islam.
In 1976 1977 I spent 6 months in Afgahanistan> I bought a horse and rode it around. I spent very very litle time with other westerners. You know nothing about islam.
Naseem wrote:
The Haphia is a mosque...and that will never change...that's reality!!!
..................................................
Sorry, Naseem. The Hagia Sophia has been a museum for over seventy years now. Things do change.
The Islamic conquest of the entire world is not inevitable, as you seem to think. It can still be stopped.
As a matter of fact, Arab auxiliary troops served with the Roman forces besieging Jerusalem in the year 70 CE. Hence, Arab forces took part in the destruction of the Jewish Temple [Tacitus, Histories, 5:1]
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/05/arabs-helped-romans-destroy-temple.html
On Arabs and civilization, it is my view that the Arab conquest of the 7th century and subsequent Arab-Muslim acts of suppression, repression, vandalism, etc. wrecked civilization in the Orient [ie, what is today called the Middle East]. The Orient had been a great center of civilization before that invasion. The Orient has never recovered from the Arab conquest. It is interesting that the Louvre museum more or less agrees with that assessment.
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2007/05/arab-conquests-finished-off-ancient.html
You know nothing about Islam.
In 1976 1977 I spent 6 months in Afgahanistan> I bought a horse and rode it around. I spent very very litle time with other westerners. You know nothing about islam.
Posted by: john Ryan
Really? Islam has taught us about itself. What do you know that we don't? We are waiting....
http://home.granderiver.net/~capnjim/fr/lesson_learned.jpg