"The sect believes that praying once a day is sufficient for Muslims and also calls for a revision of the current interpretations of the Koran."
Oh, the horror!
Wouldn't it be refreshing if somewhere, anywhere, Muslim authorities cracked down this hard on the jihadists?
From AKI (thanks to Twostellas):
Jakarta, 30 Oct. (AKI) – Ahmad Mushaddeq, the leader of the controversial Muslim sect, Al Qiyadah Al Islamiyah, and six of his followers have been arrested in Indonesia.The Majelis Ulama Indonesia (MUI), Indonesia’s main state religious institution welcomed the arrests of the Al Qiyadah Al Islamiyah sect members, but asked the police to do more.
“We are asking the police to limit the spreading of these beliefs,” Anwar Ibrahim, head of the MUI Fatwa division told AdnKronos International (AKI).
“The teachings are dangerous and we must be vigilant.”
The sect is regarded as a heretic organisation by the MUI and several other religious organisations also complained to the police.
Al Qiyadah was founded by Haji Salam, later known as Ahmad Moshaddeq several years ago in Bogor, West Java.
It first surfaced in 2000 and has rapidly grown to count some 4000 followers across Java and Sumatra.
On July 23, Ahmad Moshaddeq claimed to be a prophet. He said he had the revelation after he spent 40 days and nights in meditation at Mount Bunder, Bogor, West Java.
The sect believes that praying once a day is sufficient for Muslims and also calls for a revision of the current interpretations of the Koran.
"calls for a revision of the current interpretations of the Koran.
The "revision of the current interpretations of the Koran" surely must be one that for Infidels would be good, for the current "interpretations of the Koran" could scarcely be more menacing. And that is what requires that these Muslims, these would-be true moderates, who wish to limit the aggression inculcated at present by the Qur'an and other texts, be rounded up, arrested, persecuted, jailed. This tells us a lot about what the Indonesian rulers think Islam is, and should remain.
"calls for a revision of the current interpretations of the Koran.
The "revision of the current interpretations of the Koran" surely must be one that for Infidels would be good, for the current "interpretations of the Koran" could scarcely be more menacing. And that is what requires that these Muslims, these would-be true moderates, who wish to limit the aggression inculcated at present by the Qur'an and other texts, be rounded up, arrested, persecuted, jailed. This tells us a lot about what the Indonesian rulers think Islam is, and should remain.
Fascism?
Religious Fascism?
Islamofascism?
Someone should claim that they are the new prophet of islam. This could be done, as it is written in the koran that Satan/Allah can change his mind about things. Even having a new prophet after that dog, muhammad.
In an Islamic state, there is no separation of church and state, so the Koran (and example of Mohammed as documented in the hadiths) is used as a substitute. It is immutable, of course.
Apologists for Islam are likely to justify the extreme passages of the Koran by pointing out the the U.S. Constitution, as originally drafted, counts blacks as 3/5 of a person.
In response to that argument, I would suggest making the following offer:
If the apologist for Islam will stand up on a soap-box in front of 10,000 Muslims in an Islamic republic (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc., take your pick) and shout out that the Koran is wrong and Mohammed was wrong to justify taking slaves, having sex with them, and killing non-believers and apostates and the Koran should be amended; I will stand up on a soapbox in front of 10,000 people in our Constitutional Republic (the U.S.A.) and shout out that our Founding Fathers were wrong to count blacks as 3/5ths of a person and that the U.S. Constitution was rightly amended to delete that onerous provision.
What will happen, of course, is that the apologist for Islam will avoid taking up such a challenge, knowing full well that he would be put to death for apostasy in the Islamic republic; while a person in our constitutional republic making an assertion that our Founding Fathers and their central document were in error would be met with yawns.
There are so many prophets out there in dreamland. The only way you can tell what kind of tree it is is by the fruit it bears.
The Koran says pray 3 times a day.
These guys say 1 time.
Muslims generally pray 5 times.
Because it says 5 in the Hadiths.
Everybody's screwy.
Why not just consider all things a form of prayer and get over these superstitious follies of number, time, place, direction and death for disagreement?
From the article:
It's a wonderful thing that Muslims have finally noted the danger of extremists who want to twist and distort the teachings of the Qur'an, and that they are willing to be vigilant against the spread of such dangerous ideas as "praying once a day is sufficient". Good job, Vast Majority of Moderates!
The birth of Al Qiyahdah Al Islamiyah may just be a godsend for the counter-jihad. We best watch these developments closely and try against all odds to alert the media and political class to the plight of these people.
If religious space can be created for these people, we might see a proliferation of such groups, drawing strength and recruits away from Jihad...and ushering in an unprecedented pluralism in the Muslim world.
It's very possible that a group like this will just be a stepping-stone towards apostasy for many Muslims.
heh-heh...
'Wollt ihr den totalen Islam...?'
'Yaaaaaahhhhhh! '
'Allahu akbar! Kill the infidels, kill the Jews! Allahu akbar!'
"On July 23, Ahmad Moshaddeq claimed to be a prophet. He said he had the revelation after he spent 40 days and nights in meditation at Mount Bunder, Bogor, West Java".
Had he waged war, killed, raped, stole and lied his story would be a lot like that of the founding father of Islamania, wouldn't it? Looks like the Destroyers can't have history repeat iself-this guy is too mild compared to the original "prophet" anyway.
"Eckhh!!! Achmed....
...times aren't like they used to be. Soon we'll see our women voting with the wind blowing through their hair! Our children learning to read and write English! No more Jihad! No more Friday beheadings in the public square!....
Eckhh!! Accchhh! Ptui!"
And the mainstream media is always touting the tolerance and moderation of Indonesia, how democratic it is, being the world's largest.
Ah, fooey!
Danger! Danger, Will Robinson!
Heretics in the house of Islam!
You must be on guard and vigilant!
Pray only once a day and interpret the Qur'an?!?
So these guys are apostics and Ben Laden and the boys are "just" good Muslims. Okay....... is it just me or shouldn't it be the other way around?
I am not well informed on the government policies of Indonesia.
Has the government enforcement of Islamic rules always been the case?
What is the current trend - is the government becoming more involved in this area?
Please do not make jokes at this man. He could be the Muslim's Martin Luther.
If that is the case, perhaps we only have a few hundred years to go for the reformation of Islam, and this brave soul may be the start. At least it is a start.
No photos for us to remember what they looked like? They are gonners.Perhaps left to live after "re education". Then again there always seems to be one "Hero" to take allahs laws into his own hands much to the delight of thier masters.
So much for equality and freedom under islam.
I guess he made a blunder on Mount Bunder while picking a booger in Bogor.
Very dangerous.
"calls for a revision of the current interpretations of the Koran.
The "revision of the current interpretations of the Koran" surely must be one that for Infidels would be good, for the current "interpretations of the Koran" could scarcely be more menacing. And that is what requires that these Muslims, these would-be true moderates, who wish to limit the aggression inculcated at present by the Qur'an and other texts, be rounded up, arrested, persecuted, jailed. This tells us a lot about what the Indonesian rulers think Islam is, and should remain- Hugh
-------------
I for one would prefer they perform 3-5 times a day.And the prayers would say-'thou shalt not slaughter, abuse, rape, kill or insist on converting anyone, and calling them 'infidels'.
And then a series of their own prayers to compete honorably against jew, gentile, buddhist, hindhu, animist, atheist, agnostic, in the arenas of life and judgement by their deeds....
Ah well, dream over....
everyone, back on your heads!
Mark
This is good news. If we assume a multi-generational conflict between these guys and the rest of the world, then the more backwards they are, the better. Yes, they should be encouraged to follow the old ways...don't adapt.
The hadiths claim that MuhamMAD negotiated prayer from 50 times a day down to 5.
http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_edip.htm
The hadiths claim that MuhamMAD negotiated prayer from 50 times a day down to 5.
http://www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat_edip.htm
On second thought, I'm glad they won't be praying once a day: that would leave more time for jihad. And change the Koran? Knowing the Muslims, they'd make it even more violent and supremacist. Just stick to changing your underwear, Abdul.
OT, but I posted earlier on what I perceived to be a sharp uptick in the number of "hits" on the JW sitemeter...by my count 12,000 in just the past few hours.
RS, is this normal?
As Cinerx pointed out in his/her post, Allah can change his mind. After all, a good part of the Koran is used to "abrogate", or overturn, other parts of the Koran. So why not a new prophet, bearing some new suras which overturn some of the earlier, Mohammedan, ones? The first to be abrogated would be the ones about Mohammed being the last of the prophets, or the seal of the prophets. It could go on from there.
What will happen, of course, is that the apologist for Islam will avoid taking up such a challenge, knowing full well that he would be put to death for apostasy in the Islamic republic; while a person in our constitutional republic making an assertion that our Founding Fathers and their central document were in error would be met with yawns.
Posted by: Karl
We yawn because we know that our Founding Fathers were not gods. They were mortal men, with human failings. Funny how their message and the system they established (their second try - the first couldn't endure) was still strong enough to withstand any mistakes they made. We can comment on their errors without destroying their legacy.
Somewhere along the way Muhammad went from being just another man (wasn't one of his complaints against Christianity the belief in the divinity of Jesus?) to perfection. Even the many changes he made in Islam along the way were attributed to Allah. Now no questions can be asked or changes made without questioning the legitimacy of the message. There can be no reformation for Islam. The foundation isn't strong enough.
Just wondering, but why was Mo' called the "seal" of the prophets? Did he bark? Or maybe he balanced a ball on his nose?
Praying to Big Brother, oops, Allah, only once a day? Blasphemy! Off with their heads!!!! After all, isn't that the Islamic way?
Managed to make it through the Democratic debate. Surreal. There are so many solid people in this Country, from all walks of life. It’s a shame that our system drives them away from seeking leadership positions.
Bush is bad. Unlimited negotiations with people who won’t negotiate. Bush is bad. Lead in Chinese toys. Bush is bad. Diplomacy. O’bama will be wearing a Mitt Romney mask for Halloween. Bush is bad. Kucinich saw a UFO. Islam debates the appropriate number of times a day to pray to a Prophet who mandates the subjugation, conversion, or death of non-Muslims. This dance only ends when the credit card gets cut up.
The Lincoln-Douglas Debates from only 150 years ago:
http://lincoln.lib.niu.edu/lincolndouglas/index.html
"Dangerous Muslims" -- are there any other kind?
This guy is an apostate. He qualifies because of several Islamic no-no-'s. Can't alter anything Islamic including prayers.
The death penalty for him is a hadd punishment.
He violated Allah and the Prophet, so his punishment is fixed in death. Not only that but scholars also say, that if the Islamic state wont kill the apostate, it is up to individual muslims to do it, and there will be no penalty.
This guy Ahmed and his followers will lose their heads over this, if Sharia is carried out...
"This guy Ahmed and his followers will lose their heads over this, if Sharia is carried out..."
....maybe he can keep his head and only lose a finger or two if Naseem's "sharia LITE" is implemented. Allah the merciful....
Why Allah cannot be the God of the Bible:
http://www.truthwatch.info/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=83
Allah, Ahmed, Mohammed, it's all primitive. Don't get your hopes up. They're all stuck in the 7th century paradigm, so makes no difference. Understanding freedom of the modern age is just not in their ability. Just another Moslem freak, cult satan worshippers. Don't get your hopes up. Ask him about 'separation of Sharia and constitutional law' and you'll get the real answer.
ebonystone, he is called the "seal of the prophets" because he is the last prophet...done deal....sealed...locked tight. He had a big hairy mole on his back to "prove it."
http://www.faithfreedom.org/comics/05.htm
Ah, I see, interestinconundrum; the earlier prophets bore the word of God, while Mo' bore the wart of God.
“We are asking the police to limit the spreading of these beliefs,” Anwar Ibrahim, head of the MUI Fatwa division told AdnKronos International (AKI)."
Emagine the horror if these heretics taught that Allah loved all men, including Jews and Christians, and that it is wrong to persecute them for their religious beliefs.
Now you'd be talking real blasphemy.
I don't know, rational...
arafat the terrorist loved all kinds of men, too... and a few young boys, too...and died from it.
(/sarc)
lol
OWWWWWWWWWWW, bring on the "FATWADS"!
Oh, the horror!
LOL
When the state controls and is controlled by the ideology of islam, this is what you get: stagnation and absence of common sense.
So you cannot trust the people to seek out or find the good.
Ah well, continue to live in hate and stagnation. Dont even dare look for the light.
Will they gloss over the fact that the profiteer ..er...prophet was a paedophile ?
Will they "revise" the fact that the founder of islam was a cheat, a crook, a waylaying bandit, a molester of his own daughter-in-law, a murderer of tribes, an assassin, an abetter of crimes, a liar...etc. ?
No revision. If real wisdom has dawned, Islam has to be outright outlawed.
"Just wondering, but why was Mo' called the "seal" of the prophets? Did he bark? Or maybe he balanced a ball on his nose?
Posted by: ebonystone"
...HA!....he probably barked a lot, kept a haram, rolled on his fat belly a lot, and had to constantly fight off other males....
Where in the Constitution is the 3/5 clause? I know its a popular belief, but its just wrong.
Saffronmohammed,
It's in Article I, Section 2. It's been rendered moot by the 14th Amendment. Its purpose was to determine how to count the population of each state in order to apportion representation in the House. Three fifths of the slave population are included in the calculations. The irony is that this much maligned clause reduced the power of the slave states. Without it, they would have had more representatives (and power) in Congress.
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
A few notes on the 3/5 clause. First, note that it refers to slaves, not blacks. Free blacks, who were numerous in many states, were counted as whole persons. They might not have had the right to vote; many states had racial restrictions on voting. But many whites also lacked the right to vote; most states had property or religious restrictions. Second, they gave the free persons of slave states increased representation in Congress by comparison with voters in free states. Consider two states: A, with 300K free persons and virtually no slaves; and B with 300K free and 100K slaves. State A would have, say, 5 Congressmen (1 per 60K); state B would have 6; so the free in state B would elect more Congressmen that the free in state A. Third, it was a political compromise. The slave states wanted all of the slaves counted, which would have given their free voters even more power in Congress; and the free states (and I'm speaking comparatively here; all or virtually all of the states allowed slavery at the time of the writing of the Constitution; but some states had very few slaves, and others had many) did not want slaves counted at all. They compromised on counting 3/5 of the slaves. Fourth, remember that this was strictly for determining the number of a state's representatives in Congress; it did not mean that a slave was only 3/5 of a person.
Sheikh Yer-Mami wrote:
>'Wollt ihr den totalen Islam...?'
Is this a paraphrase of a question posed by Adolph H? 'Do you all want the Total...'?
I don't recognize the reference but I can read German.
Thanks,
--
CT yank
The sect believes that praying once a day is sufficient for Muslims and also calls for a revision of the current interpretations of the Koran.
....................
Imagine if American Christians were arrested for skipping midnight mass or for believing that just giving up watching "American Idol" during lent was a sufficient sacrifice?
What if Jews in Israel were arrested for wanting to reinterpret the Torah?
There would be howls around the world--rightly so--about religious intolerance.
from the article:
On July 23, Ahmad Moshaddeq claimed to be a prophet. He said he had the revelation after he spent 40 days and nights in meditation at Mount Bunder, Bogor, West Java.
This is Moshaddeq's greatest "heresy"--claiming prophethood. The peaceful Baha'is are especially persecuted in the Muslim world because they believe in a prophet after Mohammed. I hope Moshaddeq and his followers get out of this alive.
I just wanted to qualify the exuberance of my post yesterday. Al Qiyadah Al Islamiyah might just turn out to be a flash in the pan, but any group willing to break Muslim sacred cows and shatter Islamic conformity and solidarity...should and must be encouraged by the counter-jihad.