Saudi Arabia complains that Muslims can't practice their faith freely in Europe

The Euro dhimmis will no doubt listen and form an official board to address "islamophobia".

Here's an idea. Make a quality photocopy of that sign (or several actually) and paste it to the wall outside all of the "Muslim footbath" restrooms in the U.S., Europe, and Australia. They are so disgusted with us that they DEMAND (and are granted) their own restrooms.

They do this as a small minority population. Imagine the future, given Muslim birth rates and the folding chair cultural immune system we place before them.

Remember the signs in the southern U.S. designating "White only" and "Colored only" restrooms, restaurants, drinking fountains? Remember the great pains we as a society endured to eradicate that kind of unjust segregation? Remember how hard it was to UN-DO?

No justice without freedom.

No freedom in Islam.

The day Saudi Arabia allows passengers to bring in their religious symbols & practice their respective religion in Saudi, then they have the right complain.

Live is about give & take, not Take & Complain.

Since muslims are so badly abused in Europe, perhaps it would be a kindness to return them all to whatever Islamic hell-holes they came from.
That would solve all their 'human rights' problems!

Excuse me: Who deleted my post?

Could You kindly explain what was offensive about knocking Shrub?

This article is actually a real treat. The kind of "journalism" you'd write with a bag over your head, kneeling on the floor, before a shrouded ape wielding a dull blade.

In other words, the kind of journalism you'd find in Saudi Arabia.

Quote:
"Another topic the rights body is expected to address is the history of Islam in Europe, specifically in Spain where Muslims contributed to the prosperity of humanity at a time when most of Europe was struggling through the Dark Ages."

A roller coaster of irony. The kind of Orwellian newsspeak that chilled you when you read "1984."

Well, he missed it by 23 years. Give the old man a break.

They want special laws *for* Muslims and *against* the freedom of speech and action of non-Muslims.

Who would listen to Saudi Arabia if so much money wasn't involved?

"RIYADH, 4 October 2007 — Saudi Arabia’s Human Rights Commission (HRC) will urge its counterparts in the European Union to ask their governments not to link terrorism to Islam and also to issue regulations to protect Muslims from prejudice and discrimination because of their faith. "

....they complain about prejudice and discrimination?.......surely they have seen signs as in the photo....clearly showing prejudice and discrimination in their own country?.......

...yet another reason we need to ban Muslim Immigration....

"Beyond Parody" is correct.

I think there is a reason that such meetings are not convened in USA or Australia.. even in our countries these people would be laughed out of the hall.

Well, Saudi Arabia have got a point, haven't they?

Yes. They may have a point, but it's a very silly one.

I cannot decide if 'chutzpah' or 'outrageous hypocrisy' is the best way to describe the Saudi Human Rights Commission's (a laughable notion in itself) remarks.

Someone from the European Commission should suggest holding an inter-faith prayer session - with Jews, Christian, Hindu, Muslim all participating - at the Kaaba in Mecca and see what sort of response comes from the Saudis.

Then they should talk about human rights.

Since only Islam maybe practiced in Arabia, then perhaps only in Arabia should Islam be practiced.

"Can't practice their faith freely in Europe"

They have a point! Only recently, those mean-hearted British authorities prevented them from blowing up Glasgow Airport.

There's no end to the humiliation!

Perhaps they should flee to Saudi Arabia claiming asylum.

"or not allowed to practice their faith freely such as Muslim girls being prevented from wearing the hijab (head cover) in some schools."
--from the article--

Or, engaging in the Qur'anic mandate for Jihad and global Islamic supremacism.

That sword does cut both ways, with no pun intended.

British schoolgirls can still wear the veil unless their headmasters can justify banning it:

"Muslim pupils won't face outright ban on wearing the veil"

And did you know that non-white immigrants are more patriotic than white Brits:

"The blacks and Asians 'who feel stronger ties to Britain than whites'"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/dailymail/home.html?in_page_id=1766

---

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease."

What are the Saudis complaining about, exactly?

Why are the Muslims complaining for? Good grief, this is hypocracy at its worse.

Saudi, the biggest bunch of hypocrites / bigots on earth have a lot of nerve.

Beyond parody is correct.

This is just another device to force Sharia on the non submissive. The next step after all these "accommodations" are established will be to remove any "offensive" declarations in social & religious that already existed in that culture they invaded...then OUR rights are being removed.

Might as well start saying NO to them right now, its only going to be harder to stop farther down the road.

SoteriA,

This is where the seeds of future civil wars get planted when nonsense like this one occurs.

Y'know, I can't wait for Saudi Arabia to run out of oil. I want them to be out of oil NOW!

People ask why the peaceful ones are complaining. It's one of their great talents, along with their ability to infiltrate the nations of their enemies, extract concessions from those same enemies, reproduce in huge numbers and expertly play the victim game. Profficiency in all these talents has given this bunch their master race mentality, producing the chutzpah necessary to make such complaints.

i am shocked and dismayed to read this. of all countries saudi arabia (the hell hole) has the gall to talk about religious freedom. i wish there was a movement worldwide aking for saudis to open their doors to all faiths. i know this will not happen.

Even diplomats have their baggage searched on entry into Saudi. Heavens, they might import a bible, or, worse, Playboy!

There is no freedom of religion under Islam. There is no reason to grant freedom to Islam outside of Arabia.

I bet their arguement makes total sense to muslims...

When there is no other religion but islam, and no other god but allah, then this isn't hypocracy, it just makes sense to them. Of course non-muslims can't just go wherever they want in Saudi Arabia...But muslims in Europe should be accomodated anywhere on the planet.

Isn't it true, that whether you are moderate or fundemental you still have the same goal for islam, to advance it and make it the only religion on earth? islam is islam, no?

why would they argue any other way?

I want them to be out of oil NOW!

Alternatively, use less oil NOW. Use your car less. Do you really need to make that journey? Do you need to make it by car?

Even if we reduced our mileage by a few percent it would make a difference.

Unfortunately the US is geared up for car use. I'm from the UK and was surprised in the US about the lack of pavements (sidewalks).

In Houston my hotel (Marriott, North Loop W) was about half a mile from the building we were visiting but a bus was laid on for us. I walked one day and, not only did I get strange looks from drivers, but there was no safe place to cross the main road.

Laziness and the West's love affair with the internal combustion engine are indirectly funding jihadists.

Saudi Arabia complains that Muslims can't practice their faith freely in Europe.

Credit can only be given when credit is due..

Recognize Israel as a sovereign state, educate your own people to free them from the fetters of Wahhabism, allow your women to share equal responsibilities with men also grant them freedom to vote and the right to be elected, allow Christians, Jews and people of different faith to practice their own religion within your borders..
Abolish the executions by beheading, tell your officials to stop distributing pamphlets praising Jihad to pilgrims in Mecca..

Learn to spend huge sums of oil-money for the benefit of all mankind and not on funding jihadist madrassas or constructing urinals made of solid gold or 70-80 room palaces for your dynasty..

Then you can talk about prejudice..

Saudi Arabia complains that Muslims can't practice their faith freely in Europe.

Credit can only be given when credit is due..

Recognize Israel as a sovereign state, educate your own people to free them from the fetters of Wahhabism, allow your women to share equal responsibilities with men also grant them freedom to vote and the right to be elected, allow Christians, Jews and people of different faith to practice their own religion within your borders..
Abolish the executions by beheading, tell your officials to stop distributing pamphlets praising Jihad to pilgrims in Mecca..

Learn to spend huge sums of oil-money for the benefit of all mankind and not on funding jihadist madrassas or constructing urinals made of solid gold or 70-80 room palaces for your dynasty..

Then you can talk about prejudice..

watling said: Laziness and the West's love affair with the internal combustion engine are indirectly funding jihadists.

Whoops: here's the rest of my post.

Why can't we just live by the laws of nature and the strong rule over the weak. We're stronger than they are (militarily speaking) Why don't we just take it?

Well ok, that would involve genocide.

How about we just develop our own sources to fill the gap while we institute a man on the moon type project for developing alternatives? We have the money, we have the inginuity, why don't we just get our government of it's ass and get it done?

If Roosevelt/Truman could get us nuclear weapons in 4 years, and Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon could get us to the moon in 8 years, and the amount of progress already out there in the private sector, all wee need is a little leadership . . . oh, ok.

Would someone who reads arabic translate the sign for me? Many thanks! (I get the point the sign is making - just want to know what it says!)

This, from that bastion, that glowing beacon of human rights and freedom of religion, Sowdi Arabia!

It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Since the Islamic Golden Rule only applies to Muslims, fairness isn't involved, and they will not perceive the irony of the situation.
They're a bunch of narcissists, just like Mo.
Actually, we could always invade Saudi Arabia and seize the oil under the pretext of ending religious discrimination.

"Saudi Arabia’s Human Rights Commission"
As if there are any human rights in Saudi Land.

Outrageous. This all reminds me of the thuggery of the Nazis when they would cry victim while at the same time smacking people around with blackjacks.

I use fewer and fewer words for a reason to illustrate this conflict. You can guess why.

War requires action.

Personally I am glad that Saudi Arabia is a "moderate" Muslim country, hate to see what would happen if they were "extremists".

The problem lies with the West and the US in particular, with the whole freedom of religion thing, it does so complicate matters.

Think how much happier people would be if they all had the same religion and especially the religion of "the love of bloody pieces", oh I mean the religion of 'love and peace", yes they would be happier................in the middle east (except Israel)

"Would someone who reads Arabic translate the sign for me? Many thanks! (I get the point the sign is making - just want to know what it says!)"

OK, I speak/read very little Arabic - but with the help of google's translator, I believe the Arabic script means the same as the English parts above.

walterc:

"How about we just develop our own sources to fill the gap while we institute a man on the moon type project for developing alternatives? We have the money, we have the inginuity, why don't we just get our government of it's ass and get it done?

If Roosevelt/Truman could get us nuclear weapons in 4 years, and Kennedy/Johnson/Nixon could get us to the moon in 8 years, and the amount of progress already out there in the private sector, all wee need is a little leadership . . . oh, ok."

Indeed. Let it be known that there is technology available right now to run autos on pure hydrogen with H2O as the only emission (General Motors). Also let it be known that there is more oil under the Canadian Rockies in "oil sand" than in all of the known reserves of the Middle East, Russia, China, and the U.S. combined (google Encana).

The "energy shortage" is a myth propagated by those who benefit from the "path of least resistance" energy addiction we are all part and parcel to--namely Big Oil. They are piped into the ME and they will continue to sell the stuff to us if we continue to buy it. They won't source their oil from somewhere else because it costs money to redirect all of that infrastructure and they are hardwired to maximize profits in spite of any political agenda. And the Saudis will continue to do what they are doing with our own money. Round and round. Get it?

Fund a Manhattan Project to build a hydrogen fuel cell distribution network within five years. Build 50 more nuclear power plants--as opposed to oil or coal and all of the political/environmental detriments to those fuel sources, nuclear is both cleaner AND safer.

And of course, ban Muslim immigration

THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS - no kidding - it shows just how arrogant and full of their own superiority the House of Saud has become - lets hope they keep pushing the envelope - then eventually even the most complacent of Europeans will wake up and smell the coffee - Hubris - the great weakness of all would be world domination cults - remember Hitler - it was his great weakness to and he met his Nemesis - the Sauds and the ROP will surely meet theirs especially if they keep coming out with stuff like this - bring it on my Arab friends.

Saudi Arabia is an apartheid state and has no right dictating to the rest of the world until they get their own houe in order and allowed Churches, Cathedrals, Synagogues, and Hindu Temples to be built in Mecca!

That sign reminds me of all the apartheid signage that we used to have in South Africa.

It's just a matter of time before signs similar to the one above will show up in South Africa.

And the people will be suppressed again like in the old days, only worse.

How about Saudi Arabia denying all non-Muslims the freedom of movement?

Remember the highway sign directing all non-Muslims away from Mecca, which predates Islam and should be open to all.

Then of course there's the Saudi proscription against foreign workers even bringing in their own Bibles or crosses. What religion other than Islam is freely practiced in Saudi Arabia? How many Saudis are executed annually for leaving the faith?

I see the usual posts about energy alternatives. At this point that is very unrealistic; oil will be the best source of energy for quite a while. That means more billions to our enemies.
There is no reason not to seize the oil fields. That is the quickest and most efficient way to defund and defeat the Global Jihad.

"At this point that is very unrealistic; oil will be the best source of energy for quite a while. That means more billions to our enemies."
-- from a posting above

At any point, today, yesterday, in 1973, oil-consuming nations could have made, could now make, could make the day after tomorrow, the price of oil as high as they wish. They have only to impose taxes. Since the price of oil is connected to demand for oil, and also to the economic appeal of other sources of energy, and to the investments that private parties will make in them, it is idiotic for the American government now, and back in 1973, and in all the years since, not to put on such taxes, and to use revenues for subsidies to other forms of energy that might initially require such subsidies. Don't be afraid of the word "subsidies" or "government-owned." For example, nuclear power plants should not be individual, one-of-a-kind private productions, but built by the government, as a matter of national security, or if not by the government, then with government guarantees that it will serve as the ultimate insurer, thus removing an often-crippling obstacle to such building. Furthermore, nuclear power plants should be built in one or two or three models, easily duplicated, without the idiosyncratic examples, each quite different from the other, that raises the costs sky-high.

Had the American government, back in 1973 not been run by Carter and Brzezinski, who in turn were being informed about Saudi Arabia by James Akins and Raymond Close, whose State Department and C.I.A. despatches, respectively, helped misinform policymakers and deliberately promoted the already-in-place -- promoted by ARAMCO over decades -- policy of steady appeasement of Saudi Arabia, an appeasement that has always included American energy policy, and the refusal of successive admnistrations to impose gasoline and other taxes to the extent, and in the constantly-rising manner, that makes sense, because it was so much easier to "trust the Saudis" on "energy policy" and to assume -- quite wrongly -- that nothing should be done do nothing that might offend them.

We can dampen demand for oil without waiting for an OPEC price rise. Right now. If only we saw the energy market, and the oil market, and the need to dampen demand for oil coute que coute, in a sane and rational mannter -- see Adelman, see Kanovsky, see those warning about Islam and those warning about anthropogenic global warming for the remedy, ameliorating but not at this point curing, is the same in both cases.

isn't this the country that abuses their virtual slaves who aren't allowed to practice their faith - not even in secret?

I am telling you this won't get any better until things come to a head militarily.

The moslems are keeping on provoking us to see just how far they can go.

One day they will demand that St. Peter's CAthedral become a mosk and that we burn all our art works voluntarily because moslems are 'offended'.

They're like chap muggers. Until we really fight back hard they're going to keep demanding ever more.

This is only the beginning.
When will we have to cover up here in the US? How long America?
Remember how the sheik demanded no women flight controllers in the tower when he came to the US?
IN THE US!

Had the American government, back in 1973 not been run by Carter and Brzezinski, who in turn were being informed about Saudi Arabia by James Akins and Raymond Close...

Hugh,
I'm no fan of Carter but Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger were running this once-great country in 1973. Carter was still an unknown irrelevant governor of a small southern state.

"Can't practice their faith freely in Europe"

They have a point! Only recently, those mean-hearted British authorities prevented them from blowing up Glasgow Airport.
Posted by: Sencit

Oh the oppression, humiliation and injustice.

Someone contact the UN's Dodou in Geneva, or whatever his name is.

Re: Saudi Arabia complains that Muslims can't practice their faith freely in Europe

It should be the policy of European and other governments to demand reciprocity in this matter or else they are victims of propaganda. Saudi and other Muslim propaganda is outstanding in its audacious deception. It really rivals Goebbels.

Any comparison of Muslim propaganda with Nazi propaganda (and later Soviet propaganda) is valid. Robert is right in pointing out the necessity for a Radio Free Europe style response to Islamic propaganda. This conflict is going to be won or lost in this. The world of politics revolves around ideas and thoughts (truth vs. lies-deception).

Radio Free Truth needs to be beamed at the Muslim world to counter Muslim deception and lies. Deception is the internal contradiction of Islam because it is counter to the real needs of humans. People cannot love anything they do not trust. This involves deep human needs. Islam is built on deception and fear.

Want to hear something really funny?
There are no links to the story about the sheik demanding no women flight controllers....all cleaned from the 'net. Only 2 references, 1 at JW and 1 at Volokh Conspiracy.

Frank:
Radio Free Europe sounds like a great idea, but would obviously need funding. Obviously Jihad Watch is a leading website in the dissemination of important knowledge of the enemy we are only beginning to even acknowledge.

Are there any nonprofit organizations we can support that might help with an initiative such as this, as well as many other needed efforts to get this message before as many people as possible, as often as possible?

I mean, besides the goddamn U.S. Government?

Seriously, who can I help fund? I'm a workin' man but I'll cough up a couple Benjamins.

Truth is the antidote to Islam, slam dunk. But few possess the truth on this matter. We need to buy more truth.

Saudi human rights are these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_Declaration_on_Human_Rights_in_Islam

Check article 24

"The Euro dhimmis will no doubt listen and form an official board to address "islamophobia".

Infidel,

You've got that right! When they should counter with a list of laws in Saudi Arabia, and other Islamic countries, aimed a oppressing Christians, European delegates will beg forgiveness and appoint a commission to investigate Islamophobia, and recommed ways to combat it.

Please, Please ,Please tell why there are tens of thousands of americans and europeans living in Saudi Arabia? If they hated it so much, if they felt so threatened!!if they felt like "dhimmis" then why is there a great population of them in Saudi?

Ignorance and hatred is a dangerous combination that is pushed in this site just like Ubl and his ignorant crew.

Saudi Human Rights Commission? Must be a typo. They must be talking about the Saudi Muslim Rights Commission. There ARE no human rights in Saudi Arabia.

Does the consept of Infidelphobia have anything to do with their lack of acceptance?

Why people move to Countrys they dislike is really hard to understand. What part of freely practicing Islam were they lacking from their own Country?

Wait, I think it just came to me. The Lack of enough Infidels to be faithfull.

Thx, Hugh.
Imagining the leverage our Saudi "friends" have over us is demoralizing. One thing is certain: Democratization of Islamic countries as a fix is pie-in-the-sky. Independence from them is the way to go - one way or the other.

Please, Please ,Please tell why there are tens of thousands of americans and europeans living in Saudi Arabia?

Most of them have to be there for their jobs.
Many more see it as a place to make money.
All do so in spite of the people and the country.

A friend of mine lived there for a year because her husband was transferred there.

She hated it, as any rational freedom-loving American woman would.

If you stay in line they'll let you stay because SOMEBODY has to actually do some work.

JohnAdams-

The more I contemplate the heroic efforts of JW the more I realize that a small group of truth tellers may in time turn the tide. It would be easy for Robert and others to remain silent but they cannot do so for reasons of self-respect and integrity. These people are very brave-braver than we know.

The necessity for a counter to Islamic propaganda is great. The problem here is that only state power has the organization and resources to counter state propaganda. Their propaganda is state sponsored, as was Soviet propaganda. Eventually, there will be be a necessity for a state Radio Free Europe style response to this. JW is really a guerilla-truth operation and cannot do the job to completion.

Israel is in a position to do this and has every reason to sponsor a Radio Free Truth network. (As per Jew-haters, Jews are supposedly in control of media-but the truth is they are getting hosed in the propaganda war. For example, the Sock-puppet of the third millenium (aka the Psychotic in Iran) attacks Israel as existing only from Jews feeling the Holocaust. But what about all the Jews who fled Muslim tolerance and relocated in Israel? Why doesn't Israel point to that fact? What are the Jews who fled Muslim tolerance-chopped liver?)

Israel can lead in this matter. There is a necessity for state organization and resources to counter Islamic propaganda. Israel can help herself and the world by sponsoring "Radio Free Truth". Israel has nothing to lose and everything to gain by telling the truth and exposing Muslim deception. Truth here is literally a matter of life and death for them and the free world.

"Obligatory for non-Muslims"

OBLIGATORY! OOOOOOOOhhhh -- that'a a BIG scary word!

What happens if I DON'T get in that line? Will you cut off my head? Sounds like I'll be greeted by a "consequence" if I get in the wrong line. Those spooky Muslims. Like to keep you guessin'.

What makes this so funny is that the Saudis are absolutely serious. On a related matter, I would like to respectfully disagree with all those who have posted here and think that oil is a big part of the problem. Middle Eastern oil is admittedly part of the problem, and I certainly have no objection to alternative forms of energy in this country, such as nuclear, which are REALISTIC, but we also need to explore for oil within America's borders. The ANWR is the size of West Virginia, about 15 million acres, and those who desire to explore there for petroleum reserves want to do so with the most up-to-date drilling technology in an area of, at most, several thousand acres. There are also many other places in America where huge oil reserves may exist, for instance in eastern Colorado. Extreme and uninformed environmentalism is preventing all of this. We have more than enough oil to sustain us into the indefinite future, and still have a clean environment, if we only tap what we have. No one would like to tell the Saudis more than I that they're not going to get any more petrodollars from me, but the most efficacious route to achieve this is to realize that oil is not the problem, only Middle Eastern oil is.

eessaa,

Read it and weep for making that silly proclamation.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html

"Please, Please ,Please tell why there are tens of thousands of Americans and Europeans living in Saudi Arabia? If they hated it so much, if they felt so threatened!!if they felt like "dhimmis" then why is there a great population of them in Saudi?"

Greed is a powerful human motivation and Saudi is such an awful place, maimly because of te excruciating boredom created by a thoroughly Islamic culture, a lot of money has to be paid to people to get them to work there. At one point the Saudis denied any acts of terrorism were occurring in their country and characterised attacks on westerners as gang wars between ex-pat bootleggers: they tortured a few Brits to make them confess. The British government managed to get them released eventually but made no fuss about the torture. A British nurse was murdered at a drunken party there in the sixties - her father campaigned for decades to find out what was being covered up about her death (rumoured to have been caused by someone connected to the Saudi royal family) but the truth has never emerged. Even under such "dhimmi" conditions people still go out there to make a buck.

It's truly a tragedy that there are any Muslims in Europe to practice Islam at all!

ps: Islam = Terrorism!

You are right. I was wrong to name Carter and Brzezinski as being in brief authority back in 1973. They did their damage a bit later, and I suppose I was thinking of the so-called "oil crisis" of 1979, and Carter's idiotic sweater-wearing speech as a substutite for raising taxes on oil and gasoline use, and that was what led me temporarily astray in my assigning of administrations.

In 1973 it was Nixon and Kissinger who were not up to dealing with both Vietnam and the problem of Islam, which in any case would have required people of far greater intelligence than either one possessed. All they could think about was containing the Soviet Union, and in those days Islam was still a "bulwark against Communism" (and remained so, especially as regards "our staunch ally" Saudi Arabia and "our good friend" Pakistan, for at least another decade or two), and that was all Nixon and Kissinger could think about. Not deeply educated in the history of humanity, they never felt the need to learn about Islam -- or merely, to re-learn what educated leaders in the West, back a half-century or so, had all understood but had not, given Muslim weakness prior to the oil and OPEC, did not need to worry about. By the time 1973 had arrived, they -- or at least Kissinger --should have studied up.

Remember, Kissinger went far, very far, on that deliberately-emphasized stolid German accent, and that pose of gravitas in which the most banal things are uttered with such portentousness. He had been a sammy-glick at Harvard, favored by Carl Friedrich, and then by the patron and protector he first found, and flattered to the skies, Nelson Rockefeller. And later, with his allegiance carefully, realpolitikly, switched to the odious Richard Nixon, Kissinger found his power and his glory, and proceeded to be hailed, then and for some time after, as a Great Thinker. It was crap. But he cashed in. He cashed in with his deplorable Kissinger Associates, which began the era of big-money cashing-in by former high government officials, selling their contacts and influence under the guise of giving sage "advice" especially to foreign clients. And he cashed in by getting one of those easily-impressed Wall Street magnates, the kind that learn nothbing but assume if they subscribe to "Foreign Affairs," and attend a few functions sponosred by the Council on Foreign Relations, and then go to three or four dinner parties with Henry Kissinger holding forth, they know all they need to know. I think the magnate in question was named Greenberg, and he added another half-million or million -- and this was almost three decades ago -- to swell Kissinger's coffers.

Of course, even Kissinger finally realized that something was up with Akins -- and fired him -- he never made public, and no one has since, what Akins and Raymond Close fed the American government. Nor did Kissinger, that tinpot Metternich, ever come to grips with Islam, and only started to discover it, along with everyone else, after 9/11/2001. He was as much a believer in some kind of negotiations and treaties, that is. om kind of conceivable "solution" not through deterrence but through Arab promises given in exchange for tangible Israeli sacrifices, but also including, most dangrously, the steady abandonment, by successive Israeli governments, of Israel's historic and legal and moral claims, and the unthinking use of the language, the words and phrases, of the implacable Muslim Arab enemy.

But what I said -- about the Saudi lobby preventing action being taken to raise the price, and recapture oligopolistic rents from the sale, of oil sold by OPEC -- still stands.

Beyond parody is correct - and not just for the above highway sign. While all Islamic countries are intolerant towards people of faith (note: I don't include Islam in this definition), Saudi Arabia goes a step above: one can't practice their own faith except behind closed doors, and even that is not guaranteed. On FNC, Adel al Jubair was once asked about it, and he provided the lame excuse that because it's home to Mecca and Medina, it's okay not to allow non-Muslims to publicly practice their religion.

Of course, Islam has never known the golden rule, or else, it should be illegal for Muslims to practice Islam in countries that contain the most sacred spots of other religions, such as Israel, Italy, India, Nepal (Buddhism), US (Mormonism), UK (Anglican), Germany (Lutheran), Russia (Russian Orthodox), Greece (Greek Orthodox), Serbia (Serbian Orthodox), et al.

Saudi/Human Rights Commission...an oxymoron...More 'acting jihad', this time by the HRC, which has no right to exist, as Islam has no concept of 'human rights'. Allah did not provide much in the way of 'human rights'. A submitter/slave to Allah, (Abdullah), who's very existence is controlled down to how to toilet, and how to wash your feet, has few, if any, 'human rights'. Unless of course you take the view that Islam is the only human right.
And the only proper expression of that is the right to further the cause of Allah, which is worldwide and total domination. Anything infidels do to get in the way of that, is a violation of muslim human rights. This is a pretty good act, but it it won't play in Peoria...It does seem to play well in Washington DC, where the politicians are scrambling to kiss the rings of various Imams. Just goes to show you that the citizens of Peoria, are smarter than the officials in Washington DC...

Turkey still bans the head scarf for school girls, although that may change soon. Do Saudis complain that they cannot exercise their faith in Turkey?
--
P.S. Turkey is not part of the European Union *yet*

The "Saudi Arabia Human Rights Commission"...what is this..a JOKE?
How about the "Soviet Union Free Press Commission"?

Saudi Arabia Human Rights Commission

Third Reich Human Rights Commission

Take all you children back to saudi arabia and treat them according to your prescriptions...you'll be doing all of us a favor.

eessaa wrote..
Please, Please ,Please tell why there are tens of thousands of americans and europeans living in Saudi Arabia? If they hated it so much, if they felt so threatened!!if they felt like "dhimmis" then why is there a great population of them in Saudi?

For the money. I don't think that you could find one American non-muslim living in Saudi Arabia who isn't there for the money. I think that muslims should have the same freedoms that non muslims enjoy in muslim countries. You agree, eessaa?

I think this is a classic example of what they call Kitman.

As far as..

"Someone contact the UN's Dodou in Geneva, or whatever his name is."
Posted by: DP111

We should simply refer to him as the UN-Doodoo since the UN is full of you-know-what..

and in addition to the Kissinger Associates, there's former President Bill Clinton going around to these arab/muslim countries and making speeches critical of the USA and the current administration (rightly or wrongly - it just should not be said) and collectly a nice paycheck to other lobby groups/law firms associated with James Baker, Madeleine Albright, etc. and in the meantime, we are sending American treasure to fight and die in Iraq and AFghanistan for WHAT? So Henry and Bill and James and Maddy et al can get rich while the average American has to put with useless and insulting "security inspections" at US airports, lectures from the academic elites about islamphobia and giving up Christian and Jewish religious symbols and celebrations so as not to offend Muslims.

We have met the enemy and he is us (at times).

Calling this latest SOWdi presumptuousness Chutzpah is really not doing it fully justice.

Where the phrase Chutzpah still retains an element of "balls" in an almost admiring way.. in this case the word KITMAN with all of its sinister implications would apply.

After all SOWdi barbaria is the land where Kitman and all the rest of barbaric pislam was born.

Clinton, grasping Clinton, has made tens of millions since leaving office. He leaves no stone unturned, no fat-lecture-fee unpocketed. And as Martin Peretz has noted, the Clintons seem no longer to be able to have any friends, or have no friends, who are not very very rich. An accident? There is Burkle, and Bill Gates and assorted computer magnates.

And then there is Clinton's comical "Giving." For that is how he justifies his palling around with billionaires. He's getting them into a "giving" mood. He's doing good. Bill Clinton has never done anything but Good. Of course, the whole book is infused, as is Clinton's life, with the notion that there is a superior group of people - and he "knows them all" in his generation, he let himself say the other day as a reply to one of Barack Obama's tart barbs directed at Hillary. Yes, in his entire generation, he, Bill Clinton, "knows everyone worth knowing." You and I and all those others we thought were of value, are of no significance. It was a swinish remark, delivered by a self-satisfied but plausible, and for some charming swine. His magic escapes me.

And with that Fares Lecture at the Fletcher School, and the Qatari audience (twice) and all the rest of it, how much do you think William Jefferson Clinton has pulled in from the Arabs? And how much, of the pile he has been piling up, do you think that he has given away himself? I suspect very little. I suspect -- almost nothing.

For this "world-class" organizer of some kind of permanent "Davos of Charity" (that's how he sees it--he'd be the gentil organisateur, herding those eager billionaires and centimillionaires, to do all the obvious kinds of good, that somehow always have to do with disease or food, but never with the quality, at the top, of our fast-degrading civilization, for that becomes dangerous territory, that's a no-go zone). he has been grasping at, piling up.

His wife may be elected. The two awful dynasties may be there, to pointedly remind us of just how far we have fallen in the American Republic: Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. But that will not endow him, or for that matter her, with a virtue they do not possess. One hopes that if elected she will turn on Bill, put him in his place, get her careful long-meditated revenge on her smiler and betrayer. It would be amusing to watch, as she sends him off on official errands of no account.

Or she may not do so. She may indeed, as she liked to say, "stand by her man." Because He Knows Everyone Worth Knowing. And he helped get her elected. And he's got his uses, after all. And she will need him for the next election anyway.

Well, just think of it again: Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. If you were a foreigner, or if you were, come to think of it, an American, what would that tell you about what Henry Adams called "the degradation of the democratic dogma"?

Well, just think of it again: Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. If you were a foreigner, or if you were, come to think of it, an American, what would that tell you about what Henry Adams called "the degradation of the democratic dogma"?
--posted by Hugh

Hand UP over here!

It would tell me that America was an oligarchy! A country where only the rich have any influence. A country of lazy people who can't think for themselves. A soulless country. An apathetic entity. A country of NIMBIs.

It would tell me there was something rotten in the state of America.

"...not allowed to practice their faith freely such as Muslim girls being prevented from wearing the hijab (head cover) in some schools."

Contrast that with public whippings and prison sentences for practicing Christianity - EVEN inside the privacy of one's HOME!

That is way beyond Chutzpah!

That is Kitman Klassik®

But as long as Western Nations continue to entertain this nonsense they will constantly keep pushing for more... and more. And even more.

Here's an idea. Make a quality photocopy of that sign (or several actually) and paste it to the wall outside all of the "Muslim footbath" restrooms in the U.S., Europe, and Australia. They are so disgusted with us that they DEMAND (and are granted) their own restrooms.
[...]

No freedom in Islam.
Posted by: JohnAdams

They're actually holding a European-Arab "Human Rights Conference" this Oct. 23-26 in Kopenhagen.

That would be a great place for a spontaneous demonstration and for a poswting these signs as well.

2and2is5 said

I am telling you this won't get any better until things come to a head militarily.

I agree.

Axiom A: Muslims who are allowed to immigrate to Dar al-Harb will incessantly and unceaseingly push for more "rights" towards the final goal of instituting sharia. They may push harder or softer at different times in different places based on practical expediency, but they are always pushing.

Axiom B: Infidels have limits to their patience.

Either one of these is false, or we are headed towards a conflict that will not be solved by "negotiation" or "compromise". It doesn't have to be solved militarily, but it will take some intelligence on the part of the infidels to avoid it at this point.

PS: JW sitemeter is about to go over 15 million hits. Congratulations!

robert

what are we gonna do? we are up the creek! house of reps voted for ramadam, denmark bowing to the saudi imperialists, the UK arresting law abiding citizens for speaking out against islam.

will we win?

leon

“Unfortunately the US is geared up for car use. I'm from the UK and was surprised in the US about the lack of pavements (sidewalks).
In Houston my hotel (Marriott, North Loop W) was about half a mile from the building we were visiting but a bus was laid on for us. I walked one day and, not only did I get strange looks from drivers, but there was no safe place to cross the main road.”

Posted by Watling

Yes, there is no doubt about it, American cities are very badly designed.
Has anyone analysed these problems and suggested some solutions?
Well, yes they have; have you heard of “New Urbanism?”
Are you interested in healing America’s wounded cities?
If the answer is yes, then try this website.
You might also want to read the following book
“Suburban Nation: The rise of Sprawl and the decline of the American dream.” Elizabeth Plater-Zyberk, and Jeff Speck

Please, Please ,Please tell why there are tens of thousands of americans and europeans living in Saudi Arabia? If they hated it so much, if they felt so threatened!!if they felt like "dhimmis" then why is there a great population of them in Saudi?

[...]

Posted by: eessaa

Mr. Kitman.. allow me to explain to you what you already know.. the Americans and the Europeans as well as the Filipinos and the Christian Malaysians are there to make money.

Since the SOWdi barbarians think that as moslems work to be beneath them, they hire those who are willing and *capable*.

And when they can get away with it - such as in the case of the Filipinos and the Malaysians - they treat them like slaves.

They'd just as soon do the same to the Americans and the Europeans but that would be bad for the "slow jihad", don't you think?

And please don't act as if you don't know this already.

...not allowed to practice their faith freely such as Muslim girls being prevented from wearing the hijab (head cover) in some schools."

Reminds me of when a FIRE BROKE out in a girl's dormitory in Makkah during March of 2002. The girls, of course, ran out of the burning building. However, the Mutaween -- the Religious Police -- wouldn't let the girls exit the building since they weren't properly covered from head to toe. At least one parent was outside the dorm looking for her daughter. He saw her come out of the blazing dorm but was powerless in front of the Mutaween. He distressingly told her to go back and get her abaya.

She never came back from the inferno.

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/10/triumph-over-western-corruption.html

When you see yourself as the best in the business, reciprocity is a one-way street.

Whoops I forgot to include the website

Interested in cities which provide liveable, humane places but which also consume less oil?

Inform your self about a moement called New Urbanism.

Try starting here

http://www.newurbanism.org/

Whoops I forgot to include the website

Interested in cities which provide liveable, humane places but which also consume less oil?

Inform your self about a movement called New Urbanism.

Try starting here

http://www.newurbanism.org/

Whoops I forgot to include the website

Interested in cities which provide liveable, humane places but which also consume less oil?

Inform your self about a movement called New Urbanism.

Try starting here

http://www.newurbanism.org/

What Hypocrisy! So the Saudis are upset about any signs of harassment toward their Muslim immigrants in Europe. This is more like the pot calling the silver spoon black.

The Government has stated publicly that its policy is to allow non-Muslims to worship privately; however, this policy has no clear guidelines and is not consistently enforced, resulting in the violation of some non-Muslims' freedom of worship and causing other non-Muslims to worship in fear of harassment and in such a manner as to avoid discovery by police or Mutawwa'in. In contrast to previous years, there was a decrease in both long-term detentions and deportations of non-Muslims for religious reasons; however, there was a marked increase in harassment by Mutawwa'in [religious police] and in overall arrests and short-term detentions of non-Muslims, which were usually initiated by Mutawwa'in.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51609.htm

They should be reminded that not even their blood thirsty Allah likes hypocrites.

I used to admire Bill Clinton until, a few years ago, I heard him expound on Yasser Arafat as someone whose honor needed treating with the utmost care and respect, as should that of his sensitive associates. This was after the Oslo fiasco. He just went on and on like he really knew what he was talking about, and I thought: "This guy is a real bullshit artist!" YASSIR!

Of course non-muslims can't just go wherever they want in Saudi Arabia...But muslims in Europe should be accomodated anywhere on the planet.
[...]
why would they argue any other way?
Posted by: Moose

Hey, they're just making the No-Go zones *official*. We're well on our way with that in Europe.

Well, just think of it again: Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton. If you were a foreigner, or if you were, come to think of it, an American, what would that tell you about what Henry Adams called "the degradation of the democratic dogma"?
Posted by: Hugh

I think of it as the "Kingdom of Saudi America".

After all that's who's paying all of their salaries. In Germany they say whose bread I eat - his song I sing.

Rotating Title from My Other Favorite Website!:

"Will Saudi Women Be Allowed to Drive Jews Into the Sea?"

Here's s little bit of good news.. I only hope that Olmert won't have opportunity to let these bass*turds out before he leaves office:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123789

Saudi Arabia complains that Muslims can't practice their faith freely in Europe

It's true!

After all, they can't put these signs up in London; yet!

However, after the ad-campaign Brown will have no choice, but to erect such signs.

Saudi Arabia complains that Muslims can't practice their faith freely in Europe

It's true!

After all, they can't put these signs up in London; yet!

However, after the ad-campaign Brown will have no choice, but to erect such signs.

Saudi Arabians have more money than they could count. They are probably going to enter the meeting room with a thick wad of Euros or whatever the 'now' currency is over there. Europeans wouldn't refuse that kind of help!

Saudies got UK held by the shorts - remember the BA scandal, British Government dropped the charges when they mentioned they will stop all contracts with the UK firms?

Europeans are going to get suck into this too.

Saudi Arabia complains that Muslims can't practice their faith freely in Europe

It's true!

After all, they can't put these signs up in London; yet!

However, after the ad-campaign Brown will have no choice, but to erect such signs.
Posted by: witness

Truth be told, they're simply being honest about the No-Go zones for "infidels" with these highway signs.

Wait for these things to become official very soon in Europe.

It may be true that they can't practicve their demonic cult freely in Europe as pertains to publicv floggings and beheadings.

And I am sure they want to stone people too. After all that's their "religion". And they should be free to praaaaactice it as theeey see fit..

PUKE!

Here in the US we have callers on so-called 'conservative' radio stations who complain about S&M parades in San Fran and in New York.

I'd like to remind them that at least participation is entirely voluntary.

Look for that to change once Satan's minions have established their satanic reign..

Their concept of S&M is a much more complete and irreversible one than what we find so scandalous here in the West.

YOU will be assimilated!

Before I forget..

they're already free to rape women in the West. They're allowed "honor" killings in many European countries and I think in Canada - which often fancies itself as European - as well.

Neither brutal rapes nor honor killings engender prison time in these countries.

Nor the stabbing and often the killing of native 'infidels' who have the temerity to beat a moslem team at football or not allow them entry at a night club.

After all to lose to 'infidels' at football is too humiliating for them!

And not to be allowed inside a night club!!
There are no no-go areas for the Master Religion®!

Someone please wake me up and tell me that all of this is a really bad nightmare!!!

Like the Bible said: the first shall be the last anbd the last shall be the first.

Sounds like really Bad News for US. Or does someone have a more optimistic interpretation for me?

Saudi Arabia is an apartheid state and has no right dictating to the rest of the world until they get their own houe in order and allowed Churches, Cathedrals, Synagogues, and Hindu Temples to be built in Mecca!
Posted by: Jerusalem Posts

What kind of a world do you live in JP?
You're way to LOGICAL!

Dear Wally,
yes I remember that murder, the case stank like fish in the hot sun, her body was found in the street with the body of a Dutch captain who was impaled on some railings. Reputably fallen out of a window. None of the stories of the people involved matched. The Dad of the girl a tough old fashioned ex Leeds detective had the Home office squirming for months. He ran rings round them, as far as I know he has not allowed the body to be buried she is still in a Leeds mortuary 30 years after, her murder. The Brits at that time if I remember properly were in the middle of a deal to sell planes and Radar to the Saudis, and in those circumstances who cares about a murdered nurse. It is the same now only more so. The Saudi's get away with murder and we the west collude, or to be more correctly the Oil companies collude because they have got so much invested in the oil world infrastructure I think somewhere in the Region of 7 Trillion at the last count. They want to get the best return for there investment and they don't give a dam who or what pays the price and as the Saudi's are at the center of the web suppling the raw material they will be protected what ever they do. Not only that the American Government has made a deal with the Saudi's to protect them if they only sell there oil in Dollar effectively underwriting
the Dollar. You will not get a squeak out of our Governments until the last drop of oil is used up and the oil companies have squeezed the last cent of profit our of their investment. America could have been Energy independent 20 years ago if it wanted too, America certainly has the ability and the capital if it wants to get things moving. America could certainly have been independent of middle eastern oil and the west would certainly not have its collective noses so far up the Saudi Royal families anal orifice that they can tickle their tonsils. That they can get away with this hypocritical farce.

too logical. Sorry.. my aging hands on my aging keyboard.

i hate being part of this society. we are the non conformists, the liberals are so square, they are the conformists.

lets sell our cause on this!!!

we have nothing else.

As we are all aware Saudi Arabia has yet to come to terms with the modern world and their insignificance and continue to sulk about why their backwardness cannot be a model or the rest of the world. This is country that celebrates intolerance and revels in bigotry, xenophobia, misogyny and infantile supremacism, gleefully exporting wahbbism, mindless and willful violence against unbelievers and civilians and other fine things.

Human rights is a concept their primitive minds are unable to grasp. This mind boggling assault on our brains confirms their misunderstanding of the term.

Maybe the are mistaking human rights for islamic supremacism in Europe and why that project has not come to fruition yet. European leaders have a lot of explaining to do. I dread what will follow next, coordinated bomb attacks across european cities, a dirty nuke. Europe should stop wasting time with niceties and go the whole hog and adopt sharia. Imagine Saudi arabian society replicated across the world, what a happy thought.

As we are all aware Saudi Arabia has yet to come to terms with the modern world and their insignificance and continue to sulk about why their backwardness cannot be a model or the rest of the world. This is country that celebrates intolerance and revels in bigotry, xenophobia, misogyny and infantile supremacism, gleefully exporting wahbbism, mindless and willful violence against unbelievers and civilians and other fine things.

Human rights is a concept their primitive minds are unable to grasp. This mind boggling assault on our brains confirms their misunderstanding of the term.

Maybe the are mistaking human rights for islamic supremacism in Europe and why that project has not come to fruition yet. European leaders have a lot of explaining to do. I dread what will follow next, coordinated bomb attacks across european cities, a dirty nuke. Europe should stop wasting time with niceties and go the whole hog and adopt sharia. Imagine Saudi arabian society replicated across the world, what a happy thought.

2and2is5 -- "Honour" killings are not permitted under Canadian law.

Josephine.. give it some time.. they will be soon enough.

This is known as the B.S. Jihad.

Whereby they take a streaming pile of manure, put a sign on its saying that it is hummus, and expect Europe to swallow with a smile.

GW Bush had his heapin' helpin' at the "Iftaar dinner".

I think he even said "Yummy."

Or was it: "No one should be treated unjustly because ...of the content of their creed" ?

Even if that content includes "Do not take Jews and Christians as friends" and "Strike at their necks!" and "Slaughter the unbelievers wherever you find them!"?

What a colossal mush head.

Holy Chutzpah, Batman!

(PLEASE POST THIS ANNOUNCEMENT AT OTHER WEBSITES)

The Jihad Awareness Project (to wake up the U.S. Senate and Congress) currently has 105 volunteers in 43 states.

WE ARE STILL SEEKING ADDITIONAL CITIZEN VOLUNTEERS
FROM ALL 50 STATES, ESPECIALLY THE FOLLOWING 7:

Connecticut
Delaware
Mississippi
North Dakota
South Dakota
Vermont
West Virginia

THE PROJECT: We're looking for people in every state of the Union who would be willing to purchase, from Amazon or any other source, a copy of Robert Spencer's new book Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn't and mail it, on an agreed upon date, to one of the senators in your state. We want to get the book simultaneously to all 100 senators, in order to send a strong message. If we get more than two people per state, books can also be sent to the U.S. House of Representatives.

If you'd like to participate (or you just have questions), please write to me at traehnam@yahoo.com under the subject heading "Senate," and tell me the state your senator represents, and a nickname. No need for your real name. And I will never share your email address with anyone, not even with other volunteers for this project.

And visit jihadawareness.blogspot.com to get more info on this project and to leave comments other volunteers can read. You can also see there the growing list of participants in this project, and the states their senators represent. I've also designed a graphic that might amuse. Scroll down when you get to the site.

Once we have at least two people from every state, we can agree on a mailing date and then each of us can mail a copy of the book on that date.

Right before each of us mails the book, we’ll issue a press release to media outlets in as many states as possible, and in that way announce and explain the mailing. And perhaps we can come up with some other ways of maximizing the effectiveness of this project and gaining as much positive attention as possible.

One of the project's volunteers suggested contacting Rep. Sue Myrick, who started the Anti-Jihad Caucus in Congress. When we reach the goal of having all 100 senators covered, I'll call Rep. Myrick's office and see if she can help. I've called several congressional offices to get advice on how best to proceed.

"His magic escapes me."--Hugh

Hugh, it escapes me, too. I heard that some women (oh, the shame of this) voted for the swine because they considered him to be attractive. Is that sick, or what?

I've always thought, from day one, that Clinton's appearance is bloated and corrupt. He reminds me of a rotting fruit, just about ready to fall off the tree and splatter onto the ground.

(God, I love America! In America I can say that, and not wake up in a cell, tomorrow!)

Does anyone here think the prophet Jesus is offended that he's not allowed in Saudi Arabia?

Hmmm...Offended prophets...In some religions, that's grounds for senseless killing and rioting.

"when Muslims are unjustly interrogated, treated with disrespect, ... or not allowed to practice their faith freely ... "

-- -- -- -- --

Well, there ya go: if they're not allowed to lop off our heads for being Infidels, that's obviously interfering with the practice of their faith. Shame, oh shame on us, for violating their religious freedom to treat us dogs, apes, and slaves as they wish!!!

Abscedere:

I remember after Clinton was elected the first time that some Hollywood actress (I think it was Marisa Tomei) was gushing about how "cute" he is and that she couldn't "help but vote for him" because he's so "cute".

I have to admit that after watching that bimbo I started to re-think the idea of universal suffragism...

France is burning (again)

Holland: Dutch PM Tells Ayaan Hirsi Ali to Scram

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/10/05/france-is-burning-again/

traeh

sorry mate but you are wasting your time there brother.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/ten-percent-of-lawmakers-vote-present-on-ramadan-resolution-2007-10-03.html

"The resolution recognized “the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world,” rejected “hatred, bigotry and violence directed against Muslims, both in the United States and worldwide” and “[commended] Muslims in the United States and across the globe who have privately and publicly rejected interpretations and movements of Islam that justify and encourage hatred, violence and terror.”"

in the words of the great prophet, captain blackadder, explaining to baldrick, his man servant, the causes of WW1. "there was 1 small flaw in the plan. what was that then sir? it was bollocks"

sheik

that law,
" The French Constitutional Council has approved a law that criminalizes the filming or broadcasting of acts of violence by people other than professional journalists. The law could lead to the imprisonment of eyewitnesses who film acts of police violence, or operators of Web sites publishing the images."

that law mean means that europe has slipped over night into a totalitarian state, from the clampdown in brussels(no to islam demo) to french citizens prevented from exercising their rights to take photos. the islamic european infitada has started.

one world government is coming.

what a demonic age we live in.

leonthepigfarmer:

Never give up, brother. What you cited just makes the project all the more necessary.

Mountains sometimes turn on pebbles, a straw can sometimes break a camel's back, and mainstream scientists tell us it's possible for the flapping of a butterfly's wings to set off a cascade of events resulting in a hurricane.

Even if the Jihad Awareness Project succeeds in shifting the paradigm of one single senator, that could have immense effects over time.

Never counsel political passivity. Never counsel despair. Never give up.

Abscedere asked:

"Does anyone here think the prophet Jesus is offended that he's not allowed in Saudi Arabia?"

Of course he will be permitted in the Mudslime unholy land because he was a muslim. And Abraham, and Moses, and Noah, and SS Peter and Paul, amongst others.

I guess that means, by inference, that that old pedophile Mo won't be permitted to enter Israel.

There's the justice!

Saudi Arabia's HUMAN RIGHT'S Comission-ya got to
be kidding...From a country which ranks with Burma
and North Korea as Totalitarian,rigidly controlled
States. At least the last two aren't religious hypocrites.But guess they don't have OIL or the OIL WHORES would be sucking up to them too.

"The dialogue is significant because it is being held in Denmark, where the controversy started over the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) cartoons,”

They are keenly aware of the symbolism of having this "Konferenz" in Kopenhagen. This is a submission or a surrender if you will.

I say this proves that kopenhagen is now an ideological battleground of the highest order and we MUST SHOW FACE there!

Where is S.I.O.D. and S.I.O.E.? Heck, Denmark ain't far from England and Scotland. No reason why BNP personnel couldn't show a bit of presence during the thime this dhimmi-Konferenz is being held.

I wonder who picked the location.. does anyone know?

HOLGER DANSKE - VÅGNER!!!

There are plenty of Muslims who feel that they can’t practice Islam freely in Saudi Arabia. They view the Saudi royal family as a decadent instrument of the West. I agree with these pure Muslims. They are correct in their interpretation of their faith.

We need to fund the groups in Saudi Arabia pushing for a purer Islam. Cut funding to the decadent House of Saud.

Let the place fall into a pure 7th Century Islamic paradise. Then send in Halliburton and the Ethiopians for the oil.

"Saudi Arabia’s Human Rights Commission (HRC) will urge its counterparts in the European Union to ask their governments not to link terrorism to Islam and also to issue regulations to protect Muslims from prejudice and discrimination because of their faith."

I wish to God that there was someone in West who had the guts to go to the conference in Copenhagen, stand up and read off an itimized list of all the laws in Saudi Arabia that violate the most elementary rights to freedom of religion in that country, and demand that the Saudis issue regulations to protect Christians from prejudice and discrimination because of their faith.

But, no doubt, I'm asking entirely to much. There's been no one with those kind of guts in the West for generations.

France is burning (again)

Holland: Dutch PM Tells Ayaan Hirsi Ali to Scram

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/10/05/france-is-burning-again/
Posted by: sheik yer'mami

Looks like they're practicing quite freely and openly..

Where is 'Le Kärcher' Sarkozy?

Do I have to start a Sarkowatch? He got elected to handle his business.. allons, M. Sarkozy!!

I hope that common sense prevails at this Second Arab-European Dialogue on Human Rights and Terrorism conference. However, given the West's love affair with relativism and multi-culturalism, I suspect that any outcomes may be more aligned with retreat and submission rather than courageous condemnation of the Saudi's blatant hypocrisy.

I hope that common sense prevails at this Second Arab-European Dialogue on Human Rights and Terrorism conference. However, given the West's love affair with relativism and multi-culturalism, I suspect that any outcomes may be more aligned with retreat and submission rather than courageous condemnation of the Saudi's blatant hypocrisy.

"But, as regards the reward and blessing, there is one deed which is very great in comparison to all the acts of worship and all the good deeds-and that is Jihad!"

http://www.islamworld.net/jihad.html

From our "friends" in Saudi Arabia.

Holy Chutzpah, Batman!
Posted by: traeh

Holy Chutzpah, Kitman!

Denmark wants to sell cookies and butter.

Australia wants to sell sheep.

Germany wants to sell cars and technology.

Britain wants to sell weapons and jets, like the US.

The French want to outsell everyone and go on the take.

What's a little headchopping, self-censorship and whacking females into hijabs and burka's compared with the benefits of free trade?

Everything is relative...

OK, so these must be some real "stupid" people to stay in a country in which they can make money but have no "rights" and live in a pitiful state in which they live amongst these horrible people who want to kill them.

Oh yeah....you hear about them getting killed everyday in Saudi..the murder rate is so much worse than the murder rate of America. Those foolish americans!!!We must save them jihad watchers before they also get duped by the muslims!!!

eessaa

you fail to realise, through your blind hatred of americans, that in saudia arabia non muslims cannot practice their faith without threats and in some cases death from the wahabbi rulers. does this happen in the USA? maybe in europe where scientology is banned but islam isn't.

remember the case of the "british bombers" about 5 years ago. the saudi government was getting bombed by jihadists and so blamed a group of british expats over there for running an illegal alcohol club.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5078118.stm

"All the men were released after an al-Qaeda attack in May 2003 by nine suicide bombers in Riyadh which disproved official Saudi claims that the attacks were the result of an alcohol turf war among Westerners."

eessaa

people in saudi arabia, women, have their heads cut off for dating other men. is that freedom? is that what you want to see in the west?

why not visit the saudi kingdom. for a test, wear a cruxifix, take a few bibles, fedex a few to your hotel in advance, bring with you a bottle of whisky, a girlie magazine, maybe throw in a copy of infidel by ayaan ali. ok see how far you get through customes before you are stripped searched, fined and warned never to bring these in again.

when you finally get out of interrogation, go walk around, play spot the female driver, spot the lone saudi woman wearing western style clothing. spot a woman wearing make up. (women are not allowed out in public alone, forbidden from driving or voting) go to a pub, there's none, try and find a catholic church, a buddist temple. stand on the street corner and start preaching the bible. you will quickly be detained by the police, locked up, beaten up 'cos they found your fedex'd bibles, held in jail for 3 months, tortured and deported.

or go to the USA for a vacation. rent a car, see free people, women driving, voting, women firing weapons in gun ranges, having lesbian marriages, having sex with who the hell they want to with no religious police stoning them to death.
hey you can go to a bar, drink yourself stupid, go to a buddist church and get this, you can even stand on a street corner anywhere in the USA and preach the koran and no cop will harass you.

but still evil america you say! men kill each other there, men dont kill each other in london or paris, we are so civilised in europe. (oh the UK has the highest crime rate in the western hemisphere, better keep quiet on that one)

enjoy.

hey pig farmer

you fail to realise, through your blind hatred of americans,
(Really..man i must hate myself because I am american born and raised)

that in saudia arabia non muslims cannot practice their faith without threats and in some cases death from the wahabbi rulers.
(Really pig farmer..have you ever been to Saudi?Most likely not so please don't speak about anything you dont know about.)

why not visit the saudi kingdom. for a test, wear a cruxifix, take a few bibles, fedex a few to your hotel in advance,
(I am not a christian so I wont be wearing a crucifix but I know of people who have the bible and talmud in Saudi and nothing was said to them....and the custom agent saw it...how did this happen pig farmer..we must alert the authorities.)

bring with you a bottle of whisky, a girlie magazine, maybe throw in a copy of infidel by ayaan ali. ok see how far you get through customes before you are stripped searched, fined and warned never to bring these in again.

(I dont drink and I am not a pervert.As for Ayan she is not authority of Islam so he works are basless.)

when you finally get out of interrogation, go walk around, play spot the female driver, spot the lone saudi woman wearing western style clothing.

(Do you know they have Macy's in Saudi?)

spot a woman wearing make up.(You actually do see them...wow) (women are not allowed out in public alone,really my wife and her friends are going shopping right now...by themselves...)

forbidden from driving or voting.....this is the part where I will say that I dont agree with them//its a stupid rule which I am sure it will change)) go to a pub, there's none, (Dang...no drunk drivers..what a pity)

Thanks pig farmer for that information.

Traeh, 2and2is5, & everyone else, pleeeeeze, when describing Mulsim characteristics, do not use Yiddish words like chutzpah; it debases the language. A nice English vulgarity would do nicely.

"see . . . women firing weapons in gun ranges, having lesbian marriages, having sex with who the hell they want to . . .

Ain't America great or what?

I took the liberty to comment on the article directly in Arab News:

Ironic, isn't it that of ALL countries the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia would lecture the European countries on how they treat mosleme - who have come there *voluntarily* - with noone holding them back should they decide the European lifestyle is not to their liking.

And yet, they clamor on about "moslem rights" in Europe, while they discriminate against Christians and Jews in particular.

There is not a single church or temple in the entire Nation of saudi Arabia.

And they treat their Christian and Buddhist foreign workers from Malaysia Thailand and the Philippines as virtual slaves.

No religion outside of islam is allowed to practice freely. Alcohol and pork products, which are important to many cultural identities - something that moslems love to emphasize for themselves in the countries who so generously host them.

And still they feel no shame in lecturing us.

Makes one think that Riyadh is the World's center of hipocrisy.

So until we see some reciprocity in how our people are treated in Saudi Arabia and other moslem countries we shall state that we are far ahead of Saudi arabia in particular in the humane treatment of foreigners and their cultures and their religions.

Sometimes the native populations are being made to feel shoved aside even inside their very own countries.

This kind of cynical gambit that the government of KSA is attempting here could very well backfire.

The Saudis are merely exposing themselves as to who they really are. I am glad to see that larger audiences in Europe and abroad will be able to appreciate the duplicity and the decietfulness of the Saudis firsthand.

But then it is part of their cultural heritage, isn't it?

If I am not mistaken it is called "kitman".

This came up after I posted: Saturday, 6, October, 2007 (24, Ramadhan, 1428)

Thank you..

Thanks for your comments on "HRC to Address Muslim Rights Issues in Europe". We appreciate them.

Betcha do. I bet my grandmother that my comment won't see the light of day in Arab News.

Which is why I chose to publish it here.

In case anyone else would like to add their 5¢ and give Arab News a piece of their mind:

http://www.arabnews.com/services/comment/comment.asp?artid=102017&d=4&m=10&y=2007&hl=HRC%20to%20Address%20Muslim%20Rights%20Issues%20in%20Europe

eessaa: Have tried to follow your train of thought here and must say that it comes across as does that of so many who attempt to defend the Islamic world against those who criticize it. In short, your thinking process as manifested by your writing is replete with cheap comments, irrelevant assessments, blindness to the multiplicity of faults one can find in Muslim lands, visceral anti-Western sentiments and jejune analysis. It is, however, good for laughs, though I don't think this was your intention but thanks nonetheless. Oh, by the way, would you happen to have the latest statistics on how many churches and synagogues have been built in the great, tolerant and noble kingdom of Saudi Arabia in, say, the past thirty years?

Those foolish americans!!!We must save them jihad watchers before they also get duped by the muslims!!!

Posted by: eessaa at October 5, 2007 10:18 PM

Don't worry about jihadwatchers; we will never be "duped by the muslims." Who knows, we might even dupe a few muslims! Most muslims are severely afflicted with delusions of grandeur, poor things, and do not see themselves as others see them. Their belief in their intrinsic superiority and islam's infallibility is their greatest vulnerability, but they're too saturated in hubris and bravado to realize it.

Islamic fatalism combined with excessive bravado and conceit make the perfect recipe for
spectacular failure. Islam will never be forgotten because its legacy is too horrific and its scars too deep, but it will eventually join the other hideous scourges that once plagued humanity before being defeated and eradicated. Good will prevail, evil will perish. Islam is EVIL.

Arab-European Dialogue on Human Rights and Terrorism conference.

Anyone notice something?

We give them "human rights".
They give us terrorism.

Sounds like a great deal, dontcha think?

I'd be inclined to call it a DIAL-A-LIE Konferenz.

Oh and while perusing the "Arab news" website I found this sickening prostration by the German ambassador to the "kingdom" of SOWdi barbaria:

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=9§ion=0&article=101994&d=4&m=10&y=2007&pix=community.jpg&category=Features

Experience Firsthand the German Diversity
Ambassador Jurgen Krieghoff’s Statement on the Occasion of the Day of German Unity

The relationship between Germany and Saudi Arabia is older than the Kingdom itself. In 1929, diplomatic ties were established between the German Reich and the Kingdom of the Hejaz, Najd and the affiliated territories. A copy of this agreement on the wall in front of my office reminds me every day of these long and lasting ties.

It is my task and pleasant duty to foster and intensify this friendly relationship. The warm welcome accorded to Chancellor Dr. Angela Merkel in Riyadh in February of this year and the scheduled visit of Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques King Abdullah to Germany (Nov. 7-9, 2007) symbolize the intensity of our exchange and will hopefully pave the way for its further deepening.

There is always room for improvement. Especially in the economic field there is a huge potential for this, although the bilateral trade exchange is quite substantial: In 2006 Germany exported goods worth 4.6 billion euros (approximately SR23 billion) to the Kingdom and imported goods worth 1.6 billion euros (nearly SR8 billion) from Saudi Arabia. Germany therefore is the second biggest exporter to the Kingdom. The continuing economic upswing in both countries presents great opportunities.

Therefore, I make the case for more intense personal relations, calling on my fellow citizens to come and see the opportunities presented by the Saudi boom and modernization campaign. And I call on the citizens of Saudi Arabia to visit Germany and experience firsthand its diversity. The country in the heart of Europe is renowned for its machinery, logistical hubs like Frankfurt Airport and technology “Made in Germany,” but there is far more it can offer in fields such as culture and tourism. We all remember the 2006 Soccer World Championship as a great multicultural get-together many Saudis took part in as well.

Today, Oct. 3, 2007, marks the 17th anniversary of German Reunification. On Sept. 20, 1990 the German Bundestag in Bonn and the freely elected Volkskammer of the GDR in Berlin, both with large majorities, voted in favor of the Treaty between the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic on the establishment of German Unity. The following day the second house of the West-German parliament, the Bundesrat, unanimously endorsed the agreement. In this way, the juridical requisites for the Reunification of both German states were met and the goal of the German Basic Law to achieve German Unity in peace and security was reached. On Oct. 3, 1990, the GDR acceded to the Federal Republic of Germany. Unification being the most important event in modem German history, Oct. 3 was made the national holiday. After more than 40 years, the separation of East and West Germany came to an end. The fall of the “Iron Curtain” opened the door for a reunification of Europe as a whole. The accession of Romania and Bulgaria to the EU on Jan. 1, 2007 marks only the latest highlight in this ongoing process.

I convey my best wishes to all citizens and friends of Germany in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia on the occasion of the Day of German Unity. I also thank my Saudi friends who have warmly welcomed me in their country.

Good grief! I wish Herr Ambassabor a very happy future beheading. Since they're his "friends".

Regarding eessaa,

Go easy on the poor chap. He has admitted to me in the past here on JW that he is a latin american convert to Islam. A curious animal indeed.

By the way, I can all but assure the community here that he has never been to Saudi Arabia either, so his argument that we should not speak about the "Kingdom" only makes sense if he personally heeds the advice he gives.

I offered a link on this thread, quite awhile ago, aimed at getting eessaa to read it, alas, it appears that he has not. It it easier to label JW as a pool of the ignorant and bigoted.

His "thousands of Americans and Europeans" argument has been ably refuted for hours now, but eessaa chooses not to acknowledge it. So be it.

This is not Robert Spencer speaking as a lone voice against the general din, but rather good advice given by the US State Department, simply because nearly all accusations about Saudi Arabia, are true.

Harsh reality..link below.....AGAIN, eessaa, and all who care to read it.

Robert speaks the TRUTH, as always.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html

eessaa,
From the International Religious Freedom Report of 2007, Saudi Arabia section, here's one excerpt:

In accordance with the country's official interpretation of Islam, it is considered acceptable to discriminate against religions held to be polytheistic. Christians and Jews, who are classified as "People of the Book," are also discriminated against, but to a lesser extent. This discrimination is manifested, for example, in calculating accidental death or injury compensation. For example, according to the country's interpretation of Shari'a, in the event a court renders a judgment in favor of a plaintiff who is a Jewish or Christian male, the plaintiff is only entitled to receive 50 percent of the compensation a Muslim male would receive, and all others (including Hindus, Buddhists, and Sikhs) are only entitled to receive 1/16 the amount a male Muslim would receive. Furthermore, judges may discount the testimony of nonpracticing Muslims or individuals who do not adhere to the official interpretation of Islam. For example, testimony by Shi'a can be ignored in courts of law or is deemed to have less weight than testimony by Sunnis, despite official government statements that judges do not discriminate based on religion when hearing testimonies. Moreover, a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's, and a non-Muslim's testimony is worth less than that of a Muslim's.

And from the 2007 Freedom House report, Saudi Arabia section, here is a central excerpt:

Political Rights Score: 7
Civil Liberties Score: 6
Status: Not Free

eessaa, here are a few more choice excerpts from the 2007 Freedom House report on Saudi Arabia:

...Religious freedom does not exist in Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam and home to the faith’s two holiest cities—Mecca and Medina. Islam is Saudi Arabia’s official religion, and all Saudis are required by law to be Muslims. The government prohibits the public practice of any religions other than Islam and restricts the religious practices of both the Shiite and Sufi Muslim minority sects. Although the government recognizes the right of non-Muslims to worship in private, it does not always respect this right in practice.

Academic freedom is restricted in Saudi Arabia, and informers monitor classrooms for compliance with limits on curriculums, such as a ban on teaching Western philosophy and religions other than Islam...

Saudis do not enjoy freedoms of association and assembly. The government frequently arrests and detains political activists who stage demonstrations or engage in other civic advocacy...

(...)

Women are not treated as equal members of society, and many laws discriminate against them. They may not legally drive cars, and their use of public facilities is restricted when men are present. By law and custom, women cannot travel within or outside of the country without a male relative. According to interpretations of law in Saudi Arabia, daughters receive half the inheritance awarded to their brothers. The testimony of one man is equal to that of two women in Islamic law courts. Unlike Saudi men, Saudi women who marry non-Saudis are not permitted to pass their nationality on to their children, and their spouses cannot receive Saudi nationality. Saudi women are not permitted to serve as lawyers, and women seeking access to the courts must work with a male. The Committee to Prevent Vice and Promote Virtue, a semiautonomous religious police force commonly known as the mutawa’een, enforces a strict policy of segregation between men and women and often uses physical punishment to ensure that women meet conservative standards of dress in public.

Awake, I thought I would copy these paragraphs, courtesy of the US State Department:

STANDARDS OF CONDUCT AND RELIGIOUS POLICE: Islam pervades all aspects of life in Saudi Arabia and is the official religion of the country. Public display of non-Islamic religious articles such as crosses and Bibles is not permitted. Travel to Makkah (Mecca) and Medina, the cities where the two holiest mosques of Islam are located, is forbidden to non-Muslims.

There's also this:

Persons violating Saudi Arabia's laws, even unknowingly, may be expelled, arrested, imprisoned or even executed. Suspects can be detained without charges or legal counsel, and with limited consular access, for months during the investigative stage of criminal cases.

So, there.

"Saudi Arabia complains that Muslims can't practice their faith freely in Europe"

Can you imagine the bloodbath if they did practice it "freely"?

Pelayo:
"see . . . women firing weapons in gun ranges, having lesbian marriages, having sex with who the hell they want to . . .
Ain't America great or what?

America, f**k yeah!

Pelayo,

Excellent cut and pastes in my opinion. There are many there from the US State Department that are relevant, thoroughly obliterating eessaa's position.

This is official US dogma and recommendations regarding our "staunch friends and allies", Saudi Arabia.

This is not propoganda against Saudi Arabia, but rather, their explicit, openly stated policy as the US understands it, as we are informed, by them.

Robert DOES speak the truth, always and everywhere.

Thanks for reading.

traeh

sorry mate but you are wasting your time there brother.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/ten-percent-of-lawmakers-vote-present-on-ramadan-resolution-2007-10-03.html

[...]
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer

I disagree. Yes, the POLOticians are fully aware what is going on. That includes Dhimya, our clown-in-chief.

Sending them these books lets serves notice on them that a. WE KNOW and b. we are willing to do something and even spend our money to get them this literature. Simply because we are fed up with the islamification of the West.

I think this is money and time well-spent for us to get our point across.

Whether one small action [compared to what is needed] wins the war remains to be seen but it is ONE action and these things tend to accumulate.

A demonstration here.. a book sending here.. an email action.. an online petition.. a postering.. and so on.. Jihad-hostiles WILL get into the media more and more.

The ONE good effect of the Iraq War is that so many young Americans now KNOW first-hand the nature of islam.

These are true fighters and it will be hard to keep them all out of office.

So let's now knock anyone who takes action - no matter how insignificant you may think it is.

I for one, have pledged in my state.

Kepp up the good work, traeh.

Leon I know you are frustrated and pissed off as hell. And so am I.

We have to do more than post on JW and other boards.

@eessaa:

From this point on I view anyone that apologizes for, inflates, protects or otherwise assists Islam, an enemy of all that is good, decent and true in this world as much as I might any true Muslim.

I have had quite enough of playing with the gloves on. This is far too serious a subject, Islam, to keep hearing from irrational ignoramuses and Pollyannas and not put bite in the rebuttals. I think the insulation from bitter rebuke is what keeps people like you sputtering your Quixotic craziness -- you think that it matters.

In the end only one thing matters: winning.

Choose a side.

"We have to do more than post on JW and other boards."
Posted by: 2and2is5

I carry several copies of 2 leaflets on Islam and Muhammad (folded so they fit neatly into a back pocket) wherever I go. I find these are easy to pass out after a short, casual conversation.

One leaflet has a short intro and 20 quotes from the Qur’an stating specific Sura:Aya number. The final question is “Have the Islamic terrorists radicalized Islam or is it the other way around?”
The other leaflet is a biography of Muhammad which includes among other things, his “marriage” to 9 year old Aisha, the beheading of the men of the Banu Qurayzah, various assassinations, several torture events, and several rapes committed by Muhammad. This also includes a description of the legalization of the rape of married women “All married women are forbidden unto you save those (captives) whom your right had possesses…” 4:28. Material in both leaflets is taken strictly from Islamic sources.

I have had good success with these and they are usually much appreciated. My motto is “spreading the word of Allah, one Infidel at a time”. It is not on the scale of Spencer or Fitzgerald but is something that I can do when I am “out and about” and I find it very satisfying.

Better to be a dog in Colorado then a women or child in Saudi Arabia.

Women considering relocating to Saudi Arabia should be keenly aware that women and children residing in Saudi Arabia as members of a Saudi household (including adult American-citizen women married to Saudi men, adult American-citizen women who are the unmarried daughters of Saudi fathers, and American-citizen boys under the age of 21 who are the sons of Saudi fathers)
"ARE CONSIDERED HOUSEHOLD PROPERTY"

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html.

Recent Legal Changes: Pets as "Companions" and "Owners as "Guardians"
The effort to establish a legally meaningful distinction between pets and living room sofas has recently gained momentum. Draft legislation was just introduced in Colorado to change the legal status of dogs and cats
FROM PROPERTY TO COMPANION ANIMALS"

http://www.counterpunch.org/mariner02222003.html

The link I listed above didn't go anywhere,
this should work;

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1012.html

2and2is5:

For the record, rape and honour killings are illegal under Canadian law. And we do not fancy ourselves as European - we know we are Canadian, thank you very much!

I, too, will jump in with hard, solid proof for eessaa re: the restrictions on women in Saudi Arabia, and the lack of freedom for non-Muslims.

This directly from the US State department website (and I see a bunch of you are already quoting from one document there, but I have not yet seen this one):

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/nea/8296.htm

some highlights for eessaa:

First of all, this is quite important, just so everyone here knows for certain that Saud's constitution *IS* the Koran:

"The Government has declared the Islamic holy book the Koran and the Sunna (tradition) of the Prophet Muhammad to be the country's Constitution."

"The Mutawwa'in reportedly detained young men for offenses that included eating in restaurants with young women, making lewd remarks to women in the shopping malls, or walking in groups through family-only sections of shopping centers. Women of many nationalities were detained for actions such as riding in a taxi with a man who was not their relative, appearing with their heads uncovered in shopping malls, and eating in restaurants with males who were not their relatives."

"The legal system is based on Shari'a. Shari'a courts exercise jurisdiction over common criminal cases and civil suits regarding marriage, divorce, child custody, and inheritance. Such jurisdiction extends to non-Muslims for crimes committed in the country. Shari'a courts base judgments largely on their interpretation of the Koran and the Sunna."

"Freedom of religion does not exist. Islam is the official religion, and all citizens must be Muslims. The Government prohibits non-Islamic public worship but permits nondefined private worship. Conversion by a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy. Public apostasy is a crime under Shari'a and punishable by death."

"The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services, although some come under other auspices. Such restrictions make it very difficult for most non-Muslims to maintain contact with clergymen and attend services. Catholics and Orthodox Christians, who require a priest on a regular basis to receive the sacraments required by their faith, particularly are affected."

"Proselytizing by non-Muslims, including the distribution of non-Muslim religious materials such as Bibles, is illegal. There were no reports during the year of arrests for proselytizing. Muslims or non-Muslims wearing religious symbols of any kind in public risk confrontation with the Mutawwa'in. Under the auspices of the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, approximately 50 so-called "Call and Guidance" centers employing approximately 500 persons work to convert foreigners to Islam. Some non-Muslim foreigners convert to Islam during their stay in the country, including more than 200 persons in Jeddah each year. The press often carries articles about such conversions, including testimonials."

"Women have few political or social rights and are not treated as equal members of society. There are no active women's rights groups. Women legally may not drive motor vehicles and are restricted in their use of public facilities when men are present. Women must enter city buses by separate rear entrances and sit in specially designated sections. Women risk arrest by the Mutawwa'in for riding in a vehicle driven by a male who is not an employee or a close male relative. Women are not admitted to a hospital for medical treatment without the consent of a male relative."

"In public a woman is expected to wear an abaya (a black garment that covers the entire body) and also to cover her head and hair. The Mutawwa'in generally expect women from Arab countries, and other countries in Asia and Africa to comply more fully with Saudi customs of dress than they do Western women; nonetheless, in recent years they have instructed Western women to wear the abaya and cover their hair and face. During the year, Mutawwa'in continued to admonish and harass women to wear their abayas and cover their hair."

"Women also are subject to discrimination under Shari'a as interpreted in the country, which stipulates that daughters receive half the inheritance awarded to their brothers. While Shari'a provides women with a basis to own and dispose of property independently, women often are constrained from asserting such rights because of various legal and societal barriers, especially regarding employment and freedom of movement. In a Shari'a court, the testimony of one man equals that of two women (see Section 1.e.)."
______________________

Now, eessaa, here's a fun exercise...

In all the paragraphs above, let's pretend that this was written about any Western (i.e. civilized) country - take your pick! make it fun! - and let's just pretend it was written by CHRISTIANS, with all the above restrictions and such directed to MUSLIMS in that CHRISTIAN land.

Personally, I couldn't even IMAGINE the uproar and chaos that would eshew from around the world were that the case. Not only because of the blatantly discriminations against Muslims in this pretend Christian country, but also because of the abyssmal treatment of women in the above pretend Christian country.

How Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries get away with this IS ASTONISHING !!!!!!

We need to fund the groups in Saudi Arabia pushing for a purer Islam. Cut funding to the decadent House of Saud.

Let the place fall into a pure 7th Century Islamic paradise. Then send in Halliburton and the Ethiopians for the oil.
Posted by: pez

Great idea! We should let the rotten house of saud fall. See them slaughtered by the monsters they've created and set loose upon the world.

Then we go in and occupy the oil fields.

you fail to realise, through your blind hatred of americans,
(Really..man i must hate myself because I am american born and raised)

[...]
Posted by: eessaa

I've known many Americans. And I have loads of American friends. You eessaa you are NOT an American.

You my be born here.. like one Barack HUSSEIN Obama.. but you are NOT an American.

And yes, you do hate Americans. Leon is absolutely on point. He's got you figured out just as I have.

So cut the taquiyya and VAMOOSE!

How Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries get away with this IS ASTONISHING !!!!!!

Hummm; it shouldn't really. There are billion$ of rea$on$$ why they get away with this and are honored guests at the White House among other places and ordinary citizens are not.

Been to Saudi Arabia.

Back in the late '60s and early '70's there was nothing but camel turds to step over. (I think camels are disgusting animals that like to spit at people; make uncouth gutteral sounds that only a muslim could love; and stink to high heaven. But, heck -- it beats walking in the hot sand if you can get on the damned thing.)

By the '90s -- the malls were nice, the gas was cheap, but brandish a religious object of any kind other than the standard muslim issue, and you'll end up stoned or lose your head over the infraction.

I think as highly of the Saudi's and islam as I do their camels; just wish the folks at the White House had better tastes in friendships.

(Do you know they have Macy's in Saudi?)

spot a woman wearing make up.(You actually do see them...wow) (women are not allowed out in public alone,really my wife and her friends are going shopping right now...by themselves...)

forbidden from driving or voting.....this is the part where I will say that I dont agree with them//its a stupid rule which I am sure it will change)) go to a pub, there's none, (Dang...no drunk drivers..what a pity)

Thanks pig farmer for that information.
Posted by: eessaa

Hey, kit-man eessaa.. looks like u fit right in in SOWdi. So why not stay there nand renounce your US passport?

Be honest with yourself. u hate Americans and our way of Life. u hate Christians and Jews.

When u stay in the US u have to experience the daily humiliation of seeing our great monuments and architectural and other achievements..

spare yourself!! Stey in meca with your 'brothers'.. stick ur ass in the air 5x a day and rant about 'the kuuffaar'..

Just whatever you do - DO IT OVER THERE!

"Never counsel political passivity. Never counsel despair. Never give up." Posted by: traeh

Amen to that!

"For the record, rape and honour killings are illegal under Canadian law. And we do not fancy ourselves as European - we know we are Canadian, thank you very much!" Posted by: ImNoDhimmi

Thank you, ImNoDhimmi.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-women6jun06,0,5491632,full.story?coll=la-home-center

Saudi Arabia, a view from behind the veil

As a woman in the male-dominated kingdom, Times reporter Megan Stack quietly fumed beneath her abaya. Even beyond its borders, her experience taints her perception of the sexes.

[...]

Starbucks had another, unmarked door around back that led to a smaller espresso bar, and a handful of tables smothered by curtains. That was the "family" section. As a woman, that's where I belonged. I had no right to mix with male customers or sit in plain view of passing shoppers. Like the segregated South of a bygone United States, today's Saudi Arabia shunts half the population into separate, inferior and usually invisible spaces.

[...]

I spent my days in Saudi Arabia struggling unhappily between a lifetime of being taught to respect foreign cultures and the realization that this culture judged me a lesser being. I tried to draw parallels: If I went to South Africa during apartheid, would I feel compelled to be polite?

[...]

The rules are different here. The same U.S. government that heightened public outrage against the Taliban by decrying the mistreatment of Afghan women prizes the oil-slicked Saudi friendship and even offers wan praise for Saudi elections in which women are banned from voting. All U.S. fast-food franchises operating here, not just Starbucks, make women stand in separate lines. U.S.-owned hotels don't let women check in without a letter from a company vouching for her ability to pay; women checking into hotels alone have long been regarded as prostitutes.

[...]

ONE glaring spring day, when the hot winds raced in off the plains and the sun blotted everything to white, I stood outside a Riyadh bank, sweating in my black cloak while I waited for a friend. The sidewalk was simmering, but I had nowhere else to go. As a woman, I was forbidden to enter the men's half of the bank to fetch him. Traffic screamed past on a nearby highway. The winds tugged at the layers of black polyester. My sunglasses began to slip down my glistening nose.

The door clattered open, and I looked up hopefully. But no, it was a security guard. And he was stomping straight at me, yelling in Arabic. I knew enough vocabulary to glean his message: He didn't want me standing there. I took off my shades, fixed my blue eyes on him blankly and finally turned away as if puzzled. I think of this as playing possum.

He disappeared again, only to reemerge with another security guard. This man was of indistinct South Asian origin and had an English vocabulary. He looked like a pit bull — short, stocky and teeth flashing as he barked: "Go! Go! You can't stand here! The men can SEE! The men can SEE!"

I looked down at him and sighed. I was tired. "Where do you want me to go? I have to wait for my friend. He's inside." But he was still snarling and flashing those teeth, arms akimbo. He wasn't interested in discussions.

"Not here. NOT HERE! The men can SEE you!" He flailed one arm toward the bank.

I lost my temper.

"I'm just standing here!" I snapped. "Leave me alone!" This was a slip. I had already learned that if you're a woman in a sexist country, yelling at a man only makes a crisis worse.

The pit bull advanced toward me, making little shooing motions with his hands, lips curled back. Involuntarily, I stepped back a few paces and found myself in the shrubbery. I guess that, from the bushes, I was hidden from the view of the window, thereby protecting the virtue of all those innocent male bankers. At any rate, it satisfied the pit bull, who climbed back onto the sidewalk and stood guard over me. I glared at him. He showed his teeth. The minutes passed. Finally, my friend reemerged.

[...]

leonthepigfarmer:

Never give up, brother. What you cited just makes the project all the more necessary.

Mountains sometimes turn on pebbles, a straw can sometimes break a camel's back, and mainstream scientists tell us it's possible for the flapping of a butterfly's wings to set off a cascade of events resulting in a hurricane.

Even if the Jihad Awareness Project succeeds in shifting the paradigm of one single senator, that could have immense effects over time.

Never counsel political passivity. Never counsel despair. Never give up.

Posted by: traeh

Right on traeh.
Small efforts do make a difference. I'm seeing all around me. People and even the press are showing more awareness as time goes on. After the "jihad awareness project" we'll have even more people and press thinking about it.

It's working and all kinds of people are coming around. Look at the French if you need some proof.

Bill Clinton was mentioned in a few posts.

The first time I saw Clinton on TV, he gave me the creeps because he reminded me vividly of Jimmy Swaggart. I thought, "Oh, no, please don't let him become President!"

Later, I wondered if I had over-reacted but eventually my first impression was proven to be correct.

"really my wife and her friends are going shopping right now"

eessaa

your friggin wife and friends are all out together dummy! i said women cannot go out alone. ALONE!!!

they are not seen as whores if they are in a gaggle of women.

ok for an experiment.

have your wife go outside, the shortest mini skirt, make up, you get the idea, have her walk around, maybe wearing a crucifix necklace thrown in for fun.

see what happens.

very progressive the saudis arent they?

oh, and do us all a favour, please don't come back to the west.

"By the way, I can all but assure the community here that he has never been to Saudi Arabia "

eesaa the fraud! poor thing. like smeagol.

yes i will call eesaa smeagol from now on.

my precious...

"see . . . women firing weapons in gun ranges, having lesbian marriages, having sex with who the hell they want to . . .

Ain't America great or what?

Pelayo,

Yes indeed it is great. It allows for that kind of freedom. In Saudi Arabia, any one of those things can get you jailed, beaten or executed.

And, as for "lesbian marriages, having sex with who the hell they want to", maybe if men in Muslim socities were allowd to have normal hetersexual relationships with the female sex, homosexuality wouldn't be so rampant in Muslim socities, and others wouldn't be so quick to kill themselves just so they can experience a sexual relationship with the opposite sex.

No number of beheadings has ever, or will ever, solve those problems in the Islamic world.

If you measure greatness by how oppressive a society is, than Saudia Arabia is definitely a great place.

I just wonder why so many Muslims are so anxious to break into a world where women are allowed to fire weapons in gun ranges, have lesbian marriages, and engage in sex with who the hell they want to, when they can live in the highly moral paradises of the Islamic worls.

“spreading the word of Allah, one Infidel at a time”. It is not on the scale of Spencer or Fitzgerald but is something that I can do when I am “out and about” and I find it very satisfying.

Posted by: Davegreybeard

I love the quote! Good one.. Can one obtain these things for download somewhere?

I like the idea and would like to print out a few on my own. I will have to print because all the local copy shop are owned by...

You know.. they love cash only businesses.

I would love to get them to who ever wants them – ESPECIALLY to those at JW. I need help in this however.

Unfortunately I do not have a web site. I have corresponded briefly with Robert Spencer about this, but he has stated he does not open Email with attachments, so we are sort of stuck. I could send them to him via sail mail, but he has not invited me to do this (As an aside I would also love to have Robert and/or Hugh look at these for their comments as to accuracy, etc.)

I would be more than happy to send them as an attachment to an Email but the exchange of addresses is a problem for security reasons. As I said, I need some help with this.

Pelayo

"do what thou will unto the law"

try standing on a street corner near mecca and say that.

i love freedom, you?

I posted a very apropos Photoshop to complement the Mecca Highway picture.

directorblue -- Good one.

eessaa wrote...

OK, so these must be some real "stupid" people to stay in a country in which they can make money but have no "rights" and live in a pitiful state in which they live amongst these horrible people who want to kill them.

Yea, Eessaa, you're right about that. They must be really stupid people. No amount of money would be enough to get me to go work in that desert rathole. But I think we should have a cultural exchange...invite some of the religious police to come to the US to police the gambling drinking whoring Saudi princes in Vegas. Now THAT would be fun.