Shi'ite tribal leaders in Iraq warn jihadists on the rise

...Islam is dysfunctional and there is no cure....

"The people of the south are religious, we are believers, but at the same time we like to live our lives and we like freedom," said one sheikh.

What a load of spittle; he's Muslim and complaining about not havng any freedom? There is no room for Islam Lite. If he wants freedom he needs to rethink everything.

"The sheikhs blamed Washington for giving Shi'ite Islamists a free hand in the south."

Yep, a despotic individual was overthrown and replaced with a despotic committee.

Islam is the sick person of the world.

"The sheikhs blamed Washington for giving Shi'ite Islamists a free hand in the south."

And I think that it is safe to assume that the above "sheikhs" are sunni ones.

"The sheikhs blamed Washington for giving Shi'ite Islamists a free hand in the south."

And I think that it is safe to assume that the above paedophile murderers...er... "sheikhs" are sunni ones.

""The most potent weapon in the hands of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed"
-Steven Biko

How can those who want to take their Islam just a little light (or "lite"), or diluted on the rocks of reality, compete with those who want the full thing, the real thing, as the Qur'an and Hadith offer it? Scriptural authority, and the example of Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, is with those who are for Islam and ever more Islam.

What is it that disturbs these Shi'a sheikhs about the "stricter" Muslims now running things? It surely is not the banning of sculpture or paintings of living creatures. It surely is not that they object to the worldview that demands uncompromising hostility towards Infidels, and describes a state of permanent war (though not always of open warfare) between Believer and Infidel. Surely it has nothing to do with the discouraging or punishment of free and skeptical inquiry that prevents science from developing in societies, or individual minds, suffused with Islam. No, what those Shi'a sheiks are complaining about are constraints that force certain kinds of dress on their women, that force certain kinds of behavior that, in the desert, as with the Bedouin, are relxed, even possibly an objection to the rigorous enforcement of the ban on alcohol. They are, those tribal sheikhs, like frontier people, with the desert being the frontier. They are more ornery. They have their own codes. They move about, and the largest tribes are spread out across borders that mean nothing or little to them -- as with the Shammar tribe, that stretches from Iraq all the way into Saudi Arabia (and who, had they defeated the Al-Saud back in 1920, might now be running "Shammari Arabia"). That is what disturbs them.

How many more "surges", how many more troops, will it take to prevent Iraq from becoming more Islamic than these shieks prefer? The belief from the top down, from Bush, to Patreaus, to all those sets of boots on the ground, is that more freedom and democracy is the cure when more freedom and democracy is what allows the more fervent and religious to practice pure Islam more openly than ever before. What an interesting dichotomy- how freedom leads to less freedom where Islam is concerned. A politician would never understand how that could be if he didn't take the time to study the nature of Islam, which , apparently, none of them bother to do.

We will have to leave some day and the practice of pure Islam will be even more widespread. No doubt when we do, supporters of this war will claim we didn't do enough, didn't spend enough, didn't have the sufficient number of troops because the "libs" pressured keep troop numbers down. Yes, all the excuses are built in.

Amazing. more surge= more peace, freedom and autonomy= more pure Islam.

This is not going to work. The White House will be handed to Mrs. William Clinton. Ibby Hooper will be appointed Ambassador to the U.N., Ellison Sec of State.

High Hewitt repeats that he would rather give the White House to Hillary than abandon this war. And Hewitt is a man who seems to analyze events with understanding the global jihad, not "terrorism", as many other talking heads do incorrectly.

A shite - shite jihad. That was an unsafe assumption regarding the exact identity of the paedophile murderers...er... sheikhs.

What a bunch of whiners!

While the British and Danish troops were in the region, they we're busy pursuing their own short-sighted agendas, fighting against any attempt at establishing a national Iragi authority.

They killed our sons...

They've made their bed, now lie in it.

People keep complaining that the Muslim world hates us because of our invasion and occupation of Iraq, and therefore we need to pull out now. Have they considered that Iraqis will still hate us because they would feel abandoned to the wolves - and claim that the Americans had collaborated with those wolves by enabling them to come to power in the first place?

Or that the 650,000 or 1.2 million or whatever B.S. number of civilians killed by Americans will be used inspire a never ending wave of revenge attacks?

Or that Muslims hated us because we supported Saddam's Regime in the 1980's during the Cold War.

Or that Muslims hated us because of the sanctions on Iraq during the 1990s

Or that Muslims hate us because of something that the Pope says, or some obscure British Author, or Danish cartoonsist?

This story speaks volumes. It is a reminder that living the law of Islam is impossible. No one wants to live under those restrictions of freedom.

True Islam must be imposed upon a people. It oppresses people for their own good; they cannot live in a state with any of the inalienable rights individuals have. The “Law” is too complex to be lived, it cannot fit in a modern world without “jurists” to decide on the littlest thing. It relies on oppression to enforce behavior, not the free will of the individual. This is why Islam is not a true religion of God.

I wonder what the reaction would be from these freedom-loving sheikhs if their Shi'ite brothers torched a church or slaughtered a couple dozen Christians.

The Muslim ideal of freedom is the freedom to impose their will on others. It's nothing like our understanding of the word.

"High [sic] Hewitt repeats that he would rather give the White House to Hillary than abandon this war. And Hewitt is a man who seems to analyze events with understanding the global jihad, not "terrorism", as many other talking heads do incorrectly."
-- from a poster above

No, he does not understand. He gives no signs of "understanding the global jihad."

If you google "Hugh Hewitt" and "Islam" this is what the first page gives you:

=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Hugh+Hewitt%22+and+%22Islam%22+&btnG=Google+Search

Click on the link. Read about Hewitt's attack on Tom Tancredo, and on the Danish newspaper for publishing those cartoons, or his deep faith in the ultimate "success" of the venture in Iraq, without any analysis of whether the stated American goals make sense, from the viewpoint of American and Infidel interests.

If the sheikhs are bothered by rising jihadism, they can do something about it. They surely have their own gangs of AK47-toting followers; just tell them to go to it. C'mon, boys, let's mix it up. let's get it on, let's rock'n'roll. Show these jihadists who rules this part of town.
Or maybe they just want us to do their work for them. Kind of like the Crips asking the police to bear down on the Bloods.
C'mon, sheikhs, what kind of moslems are you? Just get one of your tame imams to issue a fatwad against the jihadists, then fit your sons up with bomb-vests, and send them (your sons, that is) on the road to the 72 virgins.

"People keep complaining that the Muslim world hates us because of our invasion and occupation of Iraq, and therefore we need to pull out now

Posted by: Jimmy the Dhimmi"

.....Hugh posted this list last year....it is still valid....

"Fitzgerald: 95 things that fuel Muslim extremism
“The American presence in Iraq fuels Muslim extremism.”
-- a conclusion concluded from the National Intelligence Estimate by many concluders in solemn conclusory conclave assembled.

Ninety-Five Other Things That Also Fuel Muslim Extremism:

1. Salman Rushdie’s “The Satanic Verses.”
2. The British government’s protection of Salman Rushdie.
3. The American coup against Mossadegh in 1953, cited by some Iranians as the direct cause of the takeover of Iran by the Ayatollah Khomeini more than 25 years later.
4. The remarks of Pim Fortuyn about Muslim attitudes toward liberal Dutch mores.
5. The movie by Theo van Gogh about the subjection of women in Islam.
6. The election of Ayaan Hirsi Ali to the Dutch Parliament.
7. Hindus passing by mosques as Friday Prayers end.
8. The failure of Americans in Iraq to sufficiently subdue the Sunni insurgents.
9. The failure of Americans in Iraq to sufficiently subdue the Shi’a militias.
10. The failure of Americans in Iraq to sufficiently subdue the Kurdish desire for independence.
11. The failure of Americans in Iraq to give Baghdad an instant makeover so that it resembles the most prosperous and advanced American city.
12. The failure of Americans to solve every economic problem in Iraq, to make Sunnis and Shi’a friends, to get the oilfields pumping at full capacity, and to make donations even beyond the many tens of billions spent directly on reconstruction in Iraq.
13. The failure of the Americans, in obtaining debt relief from all Infidel creditors for Iraq (but not from any of the Muslim Arab states), to persuade those same Infidel countries to supply another $50-$100 billion.
14. The refusal of the French state to permit the wearing of the hijab.
15. The insistence, by the French state, that texts by Voltaire, Montaigne, Proust, and other writers deemed or perceived to be anti-Islamic by Muslims, be assigned to students, as required reading, by the Ministry of Education.
16. The selling of alcohol by Christians in Basra.
17. The existence of Christians in Basra.
18. The continued functioning of Christian churches in Baghdad.
19. The Copts in Egypt who complain when Muslims attack their churches and other institutions, or kidnap and forcibly convert Coptic girls to Islam.
20. The Filipinos who try to hold private religious services in Saudi Arabia, land on which no non-Muslims should be present in any case.

21. The American airmen who were assigned to bases in Saudi Arabia and who showed insufficient obeisance to their Saudi masters, all daggers and dishdashas, with their sneers of cold command.
22. The obvious superiority of Western economies.
23. The obvious superiority of Western education.
24. The obvious superiority of Western medical care.
25. The obvious superiority of Western artistic achievement.
26. The obvious superiority of Western (fill in here whatever you like).
27. The failure of Muslims living in the countries of Western Europe to have a standard of living equal or superior to that of non-Muslims.
28. The continued refusal of non-Muslims in the West to institute a formalized long-term system of Jizyah, by which Muslims can be supported; they now must make do only with the benefits provided by Infidel taxpayers on a year-to-year basis.
29. The financial support given by the Americans to the Mubarak regime in Egypt that enrages the Muslim Brotherhood.
30. The financial support given by the Americans to successive Jordanian kings and kinglets, which enrages the Muslim Brotherhood.
31. The diplomatic and other support given by the Americans to the corrupt Al-Saud family of “Saudi” Arabia, which enrages Al-Qaeda and its local supporters.
32. The threats by some in the United States to withdraw support from the Mubarak Friends-and-Family Plan, which whips up anti-American sentiment among Egyptian Muslims.
33. The threats by some in the United States to withdraw support from Pakistan if it does not collaborate less meretriciously in the soi-disant “war on terror,” which whips up anti-American sentiment among Pakistani Muslims.
34. The temporary withdrawal of Infidel support for the “Palestinians,” who deserve to receive Infidel aid of every kind, and permanently.
35. The discussion by some in the West of ways to diminish, in order to prevent further global warming, the use of oil -– which discussion is seen as damaging Arab and Muslim interests, and must therefore be regarded as a deliberate attack on Islam.
36. The reference by Pope Benedict to a 14th century Byzantine emperor’s remarks in the course of a scholarly address at Regensburg.
37. The refusal of Pope Benedict to continue to apologize, and his apparent refusal to completely humiliate himself, before Muslims demanding such humiliation.
38. The Israeli “occupation” of Sinai, Gaza, and the West Bank after the Six-Day War.
39. The Israeli “occupation” of Gaza and the West Bank after the Camp David Accords.
40. The Israeli “occupation” of the West Bank after the full withdrawal from Gaza.
41. The Israeli “occupation” of the sacred Arab and Muslim soil on which the only Jewish state was created in 1948.
42. The presence of Jews in the Middle East.
43. The presence of Jews, uncowed, anywhere in the world.
44. The presence of a strong, self-assured community of Christians in Lebanon.
45. The presence of Copts in Egypt, who sometimes act as if they, too, too, have a right to regard Egypt as their land.
46. The refusal of Italian authorities to prosecute, before her death, Oriana Fallaci.
47. The refusal of Italian authorities to ban Dante in schools because of the mention of Muhammad in The Inferno.
48. The refusal of Italian authorities to remove or cover over frescoes in Bologna that depict Muhammad in an unflattering manner.
49. The refusal of the government of Denmark to punish a Danish newspaper, Jyllands-Posten, for daring to exercise the right of free speech.
50. The refusal of Hindus to abandon any claim to ancient sites, where Hindu temples once stood until destroyed by Muslim invaders.
51. The refusal of some Hindus to forget the history of India.
52. The refusal of some European governments to permit Muslim mosques of any size to be built wherever, whenever, and with whatever towering minarets and electronic amplifying equipment, as Muslims believe is their sacred right.
53. The attempts by some Western police to enter mosques where they have found, in the past, false passports and other documents, as well as weapons including guns and explosives, sometimes hidden in false ceilings.
54. The attempt to permit Europeans to continue, even outside Denmark, to exercise the so-called right of free speech, as has happened with Charlie-Hébdo and other French newspapers.
55. The refusal of the University of Geneva to renew the contract of Tariq Ramadan.
56. The public displays of piggy-banks, and of allusions in English pub names such as The Saracen’s Head, which may offend Muslims.
57. The discussions by some national authorities in Holland and state authorities in Germany of the need for more stringent qualifications for nationalization, and in some cases the institution of those more stringent qualifications.
58. The single mention by President Bush of the word “islamofascism” -– a word which Muslims all over insisted must never again be repeated by him, and which he never again repeated.
59. The behavior of American soldiers who have on several occasions returned deadly fire coming at them from mosques in Iraq.
60. The behavior of the British police in not notifying Muslim authorities well in advance of any planned raids on any suspected Muslim terrorists in Great Britain; this is a grave offense which has now apparently been rectified in order to win Muslim hearts and Muslim minds.
61. The belief that some in the West continue to hold, that Jews do have a historic as well as religious connection to the part of Dar al-Islam they call Israel.
62. The outrageous way in which Infidels refer to the Prophet Muhammad as if he is not universally regarded as the Perfect Man, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil.
63. The mention by Infidels of aspects of Muhammad’s life -– such as the Khaybar Oasis attack, the Banu Qurayza decapitation, the murder of Asma bint Marwan, the marriage to nine-year-old Aisha; these are not true, or if true, are not things which Infidels have any right either to discuss or even to know about.
64. The belief of some Infidels that those who give up on Islam, who are apostates and therefore traitors to Islam, could after their act of treason conceivably continue to know anything about Islam, given that Allah clearly takes away from such people all their previous knowledge of Islam at the very moment when they decide to apostasize.
65. The outrageous belief by some Infidels that nonetheless they may have reason to listen to the testimony of ex-Muslims as to the real contents of Islam.
66. The outrageous and insulting mention, by Infidels, of such words as “taqiyya” and “kitman.”
67. The outrageous mention, by Infidels, of the word “dhimmi,” about which they can not possibly have any accurate conception, and which they have no right to discuss in the first place unless they are Muslims.
68. The outrageous attempt to suggest that people are not born Muslims.
69. The outrageous attempt to suggest that the spread of Islam was ever undertaken through violence, when everyone knows it was a case of sudden mass conversion.
70. The refusal of this or that Infidel religious leader, political figure, writer, artist, comedian, or simply you, or simply I, to exhibit the proper attitude toward Islam, Islam, Islam.
71. The wherewithal provided by OPEC revenues that enables the Saudis, especially, to fund mosques and madrasas worldwide and thereby to naturally increase the numbers of “extremists” in the Lands of the Infidels.
72. The wherewithal of OPEC revenues that pay for an army of Western hirelings, including former diplomats (mostly English and American), former intelligence agents, former and present journalists (especially those covering the Middle East), public relations experts, businessmen eager for contracts in the Gulf, and many other fixers and middlemen. This helps delay the day of new energy policies that could conceivably diminish the OPEC oil revenues that fund the Jihad, and also prevents the unwary from regarding Saudi Arabia as anything other than a “staunch ally.”
73. The willingness of journalists to overlook obvious links between the practice of Jihad and the doctrine of Jihad, encouraged by journalists who still do not feel any obligation to learn about Islam. This encourages Muslims to make demands for changes in political and legal institutions in the West, or to insist that outspoken Infidels -- the Pope, Theo van Gogh, Jyllens-Posten -- must stop speaking or writing about Islam. Any such refusal to comply with Muslim demands engenders -- “fuels” -- Muslim “extremism.”
74. The refusal of the Buddhists in southern Thailand to stop being Buddhists.
75. The refusal of the Christians in the southern Philippines to submit to the demands to hand over lands to the Muslims of As Sayyaf.
76. The refusal of Christians in Sulawesi to stop holding church services.
77. The refusal of the Israeli government to stop trying to protect ancient archeological sites in Jerusalem, many of which have been severely damaged by the Muslim construction on and deep within the Temple Mount.
78. The refusal of Hindus in India to concede to Muslim demands for the full application of Shari’a to the Muslim community.
79. The refusal of Orthodox priests in monasteries in Bosnia and Kosovo to abandon the monasteries to Muslims who are clamoring to destroy them.
80. The outrageous insistence by the world’s Armenians and by many others that Turkey stop denying the mass murder of Armenians by Muslim Turks between 1915 and 1920.
81. The outrageous demands by many Infidel lands that outside forces be brought in to protect the non-Arab Muslims from the Arab Muslims in Darfur, despite the express opposition of both the government of the Sudan and the Arab League.
82. The outrageous demands by some Infidels that Muslims should be permitted to open mosques only on the basis of reciprocity -- that is, on the basis of similar permission being granted to non-Muslims in Muslim lands.
83. The outrageous refusal of some Infidel countries to prevent transmissions of Al Manar and other satellite channels run by terrorist groups.
84. The refusal of many Western countries -- Great Britain, Germany, Canada -- to yield to demands of local Muslims that they be made subject only to the Shari’a and not to the manmade laws of the Infidels.
85. The refusal by Australia to cease contributing troops to help their American allies in Afghanistan and Iraq.
86. The continued existence of Jews.
87. The continued existence of Christians.
88. The continued existence of Hindus.
89. The continued existence of Sikhs.
90. The continued existence of Buddhists.
91. The continued existence of followers of Confucius.
92. The continued existence of agnostics.
93. The continued existence of atheists.
94. Everything.
95. Nothing. "

Well done, exsgtbrown. I'll save that list. Not so well done "W" for getting us mired in that cesspool. Let's start worrying about America. Control our borders.

Hugh is correct about Hugh Hewitt. I cannot see any hope for the guy on several levels but his knowledge of islam and the jihadii threat is zero ...absolutely zero and he will never get it.
The poster above who recommends Hewitt probably means well but I could not disagree more.

Assalamau Laikum all,

Sheiks are traditionally responsible for protecting their people from harm and guaranteeing them a basic level of economic well-being.

They also act as mediators and judges, settle disputes, resolve property claims, and suggest marriages, among other roles.

In exchange, they have their people's allegiance, and many sheiks are protected by the local “peoples army”. What has happened now is that Amerike globalisation has interfered.

A local sheik is no longer local. The Amerike could have simply demanded that the sheiks provide law and order..LOCALLY?" What has happened here is that the Amerike has polluted the local balance by bringing in sheiks (who they thought could influence greater influence) from afar and the LOCAL balance has become shakey.

i.e. the local sheik is no longer the top dog…and the populace are confused….as well as the foreign sheik bringing in his own protection…infighting breaks out …Islam get the blame ….when in reality the Amerike is to blame.

The trick for the Amerike (if they can see it) is to work with the tribes in the right way. The tribes could then provide security and protection for local directorates, hospitals, schools and factories. The tribes are able to provide stability and to be a dependable ally for the US in neighbourhood affairs.

These means getting rid of the foreign sheiks…be whatever means …and the local areas will begin to stabilise.

If the Amerike is serious in wanting good relations with the Iraqi people, then it must have good relations with the sheiks. If the US cannot impose law and order, then only the tribes will be able to do it. Tribalism is in our culture; even the urban populations adhere to its customs of hospitality and generosity, honour and honesty.

Think about what the local citizens say 'if the LOCAL sheiks want us to be kind to the Americans, then we will be kind'.

The 95 Reasons list - says it all except after reading some of the comments yesterday on the Congressional resolution condeming Turkey for the Armenian Massacre/Genocide, item # 80 may have to be removed...

We cannot speak our minds, people are not allowed to oppose them. They would immediately disappear or get killed. The evidence of that is I am talking about it but cannot use my name.

Oh..... Then it must be true. WTF?

"The people of the south are religious, we are believers, but at the same time we like to live our lives and we like freedom," said one sheikh.

Well sheikh, ISLAM means SUBMIT not FREEDOM.

"We cannot speak our minds, people are not allowed to oppose them. They would immediately disappear or get killed. The evidence of that is I am talking about it but cannot use my name."

an oppressed sheikh

Did he ever hear those words from a non-Muslim? Does he not see that that is what Islam offers?

The sheikhs said the conservative religious attitudes meant only religious music was now allowed to be played in public places and dancing was forbidden, as was drinking alcohol.

Tell the dhimmis in every society you have imposed your own form of Islam on.

"The people of the south are religious, we are believers, but at the same time we like to live our lives and we like freedom," said one sheikh

When was the last time you defended the right of a non-Muslim to live freely without being bound by shariah law and without paying your jizya? They are believers and they like freedom, too. Sauce for the goose, sheikh.

The sheikhs blamed Washington for giving Shi'ite Islamists a free hand in the south.

Point taken. We'll leave the next Saddam alone if you agree not to cry to us that you are oppressed by dictators. Musharraf is our friend (ha, ha) and so is the president of Egypt. Dictator, shmictator. Tyrant, shmyrant.

hmmm, how much longer before the policymakers (especially the US policymakers) realise, the solution can be state in four easy words.

Leave them to it.

BREAKING NEWS:

The Turkish Parliament has just approved the incursion of Turkish troops into Iraq to go after the PKK. There are now approximately 60,000 Turkish Troops on the Iraqi/Turkish Border at this time.

All thanks to the undermining Dems, they should be prosecuted for treason.

"Sheiks are traditionally responsible for protecting their people from harm and guaranteeing them a basic level of economic well-being.

They also act as mediators and judges, settle disputes, resolve property claims, and suggest marriages, among other roles.

Posted by: Naseem

....they have failed to protect their people from each other...and the people deserve a higher standard of living other than the "basic level" (or does Islam insist that people remain subservant always and that the "basic Level" is good enough).....they have demonstrated violence in acting as mediators and judges (doling out harsh punishments and moronic judgements showing the 7th century mentalities)....we have seen how property disputes are handled (especially if one of the people in court is a non Muslim)....we have seen how Marriages are handled (including child brides, forced marriages, childred offered to old men as payment for debts)...we have see many instances of "other roles"

"In exchange, they have their people's allegiance, and many sheiks are protected by the local “peoples army”

....this sounds like paying protection money to a mobster....good old jiyzah....in a way....(you know....pay us or you die)...

What has happened here is the Muslims for centuries have not corrected the injustices and harsh rules laid down by a bunch of caravan raiding lunatics....

...and these laws and practices were well in place before there even was a USA....

...it is just one of the reasons to Ban Muslim Immigration...

and a good article from long ago....

Why They Hate Us
By Robert Spencer
FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, May 06, 2004

"REMEMBER 11th SEPTEMBER.” Last Tuesday, a band of demonstrators appeared outside the British Prime Minister’s offices on Downing Street in London. Some were carrying signs bearing photos of the burning World Trade Center, with the exhortation to remember as a caption. But it wasn’t a memorial. It was a threat.

They were chanting “Bomb London, bomb New York” and “We are terrorists.” Another one of their signs asked “IS THIS YOUR FREEDOM?” and bore one of the photos of the Iraqis prisoners abused by American and British soldiers in Iraq.

Is this our freedom? No. Our freedom is more accurately illustrated by the fact that those responsible for the abuse of prisoners will be prosecuted. They are, in other words, not protected by an ideology that is immune to self-criticism and justifies abuses by theological or legal tenets, or by reference to other abuses. The difference between the two civilizations that are clashing now is not that one will commit heinous acts and the other will not. Human nature being what it is, evil will never be wholly absent from any group. But one civilization will condemn and punish those who commit such crimes; the other will not.

The Iraqi prisoners are just the latest pretext. If the stories of abuse had not existed, they would have had to be invented — as evidenced by their augmentation on the ever more frenzied Arab Street with footage from an old porn film depicting American soldiers raping an Arab woman. Many people believe that if we only made a few adjustments here, or there — Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan — the animosity toward America in the Islamic world would melt away. The demonstrators, for all their particular grievances, prove otherwise. They were from Al-Muhajiroun, the notorious pro-Osama radical Muslim group in Britain that has been wanting to “bomb London, bomb New York” long before these prisoners were abused — and long before there were even any American troops in Iraq. In Onward Muslim Soldiers I record the group’s leader Omar Bakri’s statement that he is working for the day when the “black flag of Islam” — the jihad flag — will fly over #10 Downing Street.

A few days before this demonstration, my old college roommate Dave sent me a New Yorker cartoon depicting a group of people, male and female, in a hot tub, with the caption: “I think if these Islamic fundamentalists got to know us they’d like us.” Of course, many real people think the way the folks in the hot tub in this cartoon think. You’ll find some of them not in hot tubs, but in the State Department.

Unfortunately, however, despite all the hearts-and-minds initiatives, this conflict has nothing to do with getting to know us. The principles of global jihad, to which Al-Muhajiroun enthusiastically subscribes, are not a reaction to American power or any particular American action. The influential Pakistani radical Muslim theorist Syed Abul Ala Maududi declared that “Islam requires the earth — not just a portion, but the whole planet — not because the sovereignty over the earth should be wrested from one Nation or several Nations and vested in one particular Nation, but because the entire mankind should benefit … from ‘Islam’ which is the programme of well-being for all humanity.”

Maududi insisted that non-Muslims, although free to practice their “false, man-made way,” have “absolutely no right to seize the reins of power in any part of God’s earth nor to direct the collective affairs of human beings according to their own misconceived doctrines.” If they do, “the believers would be under an obligation to do their utmost to dislodge them from political power and to make them live in subservience to the Islamic way of life.”

Committed mujahedin will never be mollified by any amount of good will or economic aid or anything else from the West. They won’t be happy if every prisoner gets his own hot tub and copy of the New Yorker. They are dedicated to the proposition that no non-Sharia government has any right to exist, and that Allah commands that all non-Sharia governments must be fought. As the principal obstacle to this, we are directly in the line of fire. There are two possible outcomes as far as they’re concerned: death, or victory. Not negotiations, not peaceful coexistence, not mutual understanding. Those who abused the Iraqi prisoners should be punished, above all for stimulating anti-U.S. hatred among Muslims. But no one should be deceived into thinking that such abuse is the cause of that hatred.

And that, exsgtbrown, in a nutshell, is what we're up against. I can only hope and pray that the rest of the western world will wake up and unite against this evil plague.

Why am I the only one here who sees this for what it is? GREAT NEWS!! IT IS WORKING!!

The very first step toward improving your condition is dissatisfaction with the present miserable situation that you find yourself in.

Freedom is not free. This is as true in San Francisco as it is in Baghdad. Thanks to our brave troopers’ “BOOTS ON THE GROUND”, these poor wretches have been given a chance to affect their political futures to a more favorable outcome.

Behold! the sheikhs are dissatisfied with the Islamists! This is not an occasion for whining – it is an occasion for rejoicing!!!

lol @ topic...in other words:

Pot: "That kettle's black!"
Kettle: "What?! I'm not black! You're blacker!"

lol...what's next? Calling each other "gay"? No, wait...that's already been done by hamas, never mind.
lol

Davegreybeard,
I call it a time for cautious optimism, at best.

Even that optimism is lessened by this sheikh blaming the US for depriving him of his source of patronage and revenues. Once his tribe gets what they want, what will they do to their neighbors or to the American and British soldiers unlucky enough to be within shooting range?

This sheikh is just upset that his fiefdom was overturned. There is no indication that he cares about freedom for anyone but himself. Will his desire for freedom mean he will extend it to people who don't hit their heads on the ground five times a day? Will he extend it to those who don't practice his own brand of Islam? Will he extend it to the Jews or will he use his own fear of retribution as an excuse not to?

It's way too early to rejoice.

It is early yet, with much hard work to do. Failure is still possible - if we lose faith in our core values and abandon this project.

Still, the very first, tiny ray of sunlight, after the dark and bitter cold night - is cause for rejoicing.

I had written a longer comment on the Sheikhs that came forward. But rather than face being criticized for being an apologist, which I am not, I deleted it. I believe heart and soul that Islam is the greatest threat to our nation and way of life that we've faced in decades, maybe since WWII. The ones that came forward are making an overture plain and simple. What they've been force fed for 14 centuries is still not as powerful as tribal relations and thats why Anbar is where it is now.
It's doubtful that these were either Sunni or Bedouin. A Sunni in Basrah is a dead man walking, they dont last long there. The Bedouin haven't been making many runs through Iraq since the war started in 03.
These are the ones that want free choice of how they conduct their daily lives. These are the types that we hope one day will spearhead a movement to change Koranic teachings. Not every Muslim here wants Shari'a law because of what it brings.
Another thing is that I have been here for 31 months total since 2004 and the problems in Basrah are on London's doorstep, not Washington's. But the Sheikhs know that the British aren't interested so they blame Washington knowing it'll get noticed by someone in the IZ.

What has this sheikh been doing for the last four years? Was he preaching against "this project" or was he calling for reconciliation or was he just keeping his mouth shut?

Does he oppose Islamism or is he just upset at being the target of it?

Does he want freedom for all or for himself alone? Freedom isn't of any value unless it is shared. Does this sheikh know how to share freedom with anyone but another Muslim?

Instead of blaming the US for his position, he could try to rally his fellow believers and defeat the Islamists himself, but he won't. Why? He might find more Americans warming to his cause if they saw he was willing to risk his life to bring freedom to others rather than get a ticket to heaven for himself. This sheikh took one tiny step. He has to take a few thousand more before anyone can even begin to trust that he really opposes Islamism. Right now, it appears he just doesn't like it when his own ox is gored.

Not necessarily bad news.

More jihadis to kill.

If the average of jihadis killed or captured is 50 per day in Iraq, and with the victories with the sunnis coming over, there might have been a diminution in that number, it is not unwelcome to hear some more jihadis are stepping up for the culling.

We only win when the uma cries 'uncle'.

These bastards are programmed to kill us, so their demise is most welcome.

They hate America and want to subject us. Hats off to you, our military.

Thanks for saving our butts.

FiveOAdviser,

We kept hearing how Saddam oppressed the Shiite majority, but when he was removed didn't the oppressed become the new oppressor? They want freedom but don't they define it within the parameters of Islam? Non-Muslims won't get it.

Is it merely a coincidence that many Muslim countries are still tribal? Even discounting Islam, can individual freedom ever prosper in a society ruled by and defined by the group?

The British may have contributed to this situation, but did they have a choice? Could they have changed the social structure without bringing on total anarchy? Weren't they faced with bad choices all around and simply chose the least worst: working with established fiefs?

Winning the ‘hearts and minds’ of Muslim sheiks is an oxymoron. They have neither.

Hugh’s 95 points above (listed by exsgtbrown) clearly shows they have neither, except a ‘heart of darkness’ and a mind of zombie unreasonable demands. That’s what you get from a cult of total obedience, a culture of zombie like followers who will turn on you with any infraction of the million little rules they impose on everybody else. Freedom is why they hate us more than anything else, because we live by a very simple code, which disregards their million little rules.

We believe every person has an inalienable right to live their lives as they see fit conditional that their actions do not hinder or abrogate for another the same right.

That’s Islam, all of it, when stripped of its mystery mumbo jumbo: It is an obedience submission cult of total oppression. Islam hates freedom.

"It is early yet, with much hard work to do. Failure is still possible - if we lose faith in our core values and abandon this project.

Still, the very first, tiny ray of sunlight, after the dark and bitter cold night - is cause for rejoicing."

-Davegreybeard

As long as they are still trained from birth to hate our way of life I don't see how something like this spit in a bucket could possibly turn the tide. So for now unless something more drastic begins to happen on their side I'm gonna stay even less then cautiously optimistic about these minuscule positive events.

"That’s Islam, all of it, when stripped of its mystery mumbo jumbo: It is an obedience submission cult of total oppression. Islam hates freedom.

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours"

....Islam is a thrill kill machine....

It's always all someone else's fault. If not the Jews, then the Americans.......never muslims.

@pismopal

"The poster above who recommends Hewitt probably means well but I could not disagree more."

Perhaps I should clarify. I do not recommend Hewitt. I was pointing out his statement about how strongly he feels about this war. He is saying that he will NOT conceive the idea that he could be wrong. I did not mean to suggest he understands Islam well enough, though he uses terms like "glogal jihad" and "dhimmitude". Robert and Hugh have previously written about how important it is to use correct language. I agree. Hewitt uses some correct language but just can't get to the final analysis.

"It's always all someone else's fault."

-ImNoDhimmi

Sounds exactly like my nextdoor muslim neighbor's attitude towards everything. *sigh*

Howdy PMK,

When Saddam was removed it is absolutely true and undeniable that the same group became the oppressor and AQI added fuel to that fire with multiple car bombs daily. No arguement there from me at all, I saw it happening first hand.

An oppressed people turned to the ones that they, unfortunately, thought they could trust to lead them. Again unfortunately those were the likes of Muqtada al Sadr an evil little man with only his own rise to power on his mind. Once that evil was started it took off. Not because all the Shiites supported Mookie and wanted to kill Sunnis and Christians, but not becoming a JAM member would most likely seal not only your fate but those of your entire family. And instead of working with the soon to be formed government and CPA he instead incited his people to violence. Now whats left of that are your basic thugs, killing and stealing what they can for money justifying it as part of the JAM directives which aren't there. These creeps aren't doing it for Islam they are doing it for basic criminal greed. al Sistani hasn't been any better, just less vocal.

No doubt they define their society around the parameters of Islam, as ours was around Christianity. The government thats in place at the moment has placed laws into effect that are constitutional and allow personal freedoms. Whether or not that will survive and move out to the provinces is what will be interesting to see. My prayers are that it does and what we've spent here will be worth it in that regard.
I guess what Im getting at is not every muslim here is a blood thirsty jihadist living to be oppressed or be oppressed.

As far as tribes and muslim countries are concerned I'll be totally upfront with you. I have no idea. I'm not a scholar with knowledge of every Muslim country and how they've progressed. All I do know is that places we travel to now that we sweated before we don't (as much) now because of the tribal leaders. And these seem to be more progressive leaders. Allowing people to live under the existing laws.

And your absolutely right the Brits did choose the path of least resistance and that was my point. That was the same path the likes of General Sanchez took and we know how that worked. Staying behind the wire didn't work for us and it didn't work for them. And they didnt work with the established fiefs, they placated what was there until they could remove themselves and then left it in the hands of the Iraqi Army not well enough trained in counter-insurgency. Throw Iran concentrating their efforts into that area with little in the way of countering it and the extremists have a large area to exploit.
As one Iraqi IP told me, you can drive into a town throw a goat and hit someone who speaks Farsi and has a Tehran home phone number.

When it's all said and done regardless my faith remains that sacrifices made here hopefully will be justified. Besides the losses suffered by the military, on our part we have lost 23 fellow officers and another 26 security personnel since early 2004 so we are invested deeply in the future here.

Semper Fi

"even the urban populations adhere to its customs of hospitality and generosity, honour and honesty."

posted by Naseem."

....they cower in fear of reprisals, torture, and death at the hands of the tribal ones...

To all Islamimsts or anyone supporting their agenda -

I will be ALWAYS ready for you. Live FREE or DIE:

Mohd. Rules HELL!

@FiveOAdviser

God Bless you and your men and women and stay safe.

FiveOAdviser - Thanks for your willingness to defend your country.Our military is the best in the world. Let's hope the politicians of both parties know how to use the power that they wield wisely. Be safe!

“As long as they are still trained from birth to hate our way of life I don't see how something like this spit in a bucket could possibly turn the tide.”
Posted by: Stinkyinfidel

Take heart in two things:

1. The desire for freedom, in ones life and
affairs, is a universal human desire. This is
what we fight for and what we champion.
2. The desire for tyranny is only found in those
few who believe that they will be on the top
of the dog pile – all others detest it.

The only way tyranny wins is if those wishing freedom will not fight for it. The profound dissatisfaction of the sheikhs at their condition is the first step toward their freedom – they will be our allies.

Never submit and never give up the fight for freedom.

The ONLY way we loose this fight is if we quit before it’s won.

Speaking of hope, this a non sequitur but I liked this quote...

"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."

- Ronald Reagan

"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
- Ronald Reagan

Posted by: Stinkyinfidel

You are on the right track Stinky.

If we were really "Crusaders". They would all be dead by now and we would be discussing other topics.

(PLEASE POST THIS ANNOUNCEMENT AT OTHER WEBSITES)

The Jihad Awareness Project (to wake up the U.S. Senate and Congress) currently has 109 volunteers in 44 states.

WE ARE STILL SEEKING ADDITIONAL CITIZEN VOLUNTEERS
FROM ALL 50 STATES, ESPECIALLY THE FOLLOWING 6:

Delaware
Mississippi
North Dakota
South Dakota
Vermont
West Virginia

THE PROJECT: We're looking for people in every state of the Union who would be willing to purchase, from Amazon or any other source, a copy of Robert Spencer's new book Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn't and mail it, on an agreed upon date, to one of the senators in your state. We want to get the book simultaneously to all 100 senators, in order to send a strong message. If we get more than two people per state, books can also be sent to the U.S. House of Representatives.

If you'd like to participate (or you just have questions), please write to me at traehnam@yahoo.com under the subject heading "Senate," and tell me the state your senator represents, and a nickname. No need for your real name. And I will never share your email address with anyone, not even with other volunteers for this project.

And visit jihadawareness.blogspot.com to get more info on this project and to leave comments other volunteers can read. You can also see there the growing list of participants in this project, and the states their senators represent. I've also designed a graphic that might amuse. Scroll down when you get to the site.

Once we have at least two people from every state, we can agree on a mailing date and then each of us can mail a copy of the book on that date.

Right before each of us mails the book, we’ll issue a press release to media outlets in as many states as possible, and in that way announce and explain the mailing. And perhaps we can come up with some other ways of maximizing the effectiveness of this project and gaining as much positive attention as possible.

One of the project's volunteers suggested contacting Rep. Sue Myrick, who started the Anti-Jihad Caucus in Congress. When we reach the goal of having all 100 senators covered, I'll call Rep. Myrick's office and see if she can help. I've called several congressional offices to get advice on how best to proceed.

What is happening in Iran will spread everywhere else if people do not wake up to the danger that is creeping closer to them day by day.

What we have here is a darkness of civilization that has the potential of sweeping over the earth. Don't think you Americans are immune from this repressive mind thought. It will creep into your neighborhood inch by inch.

The ultra left liberals are already doing it. The only difference is the Jihadists will kill you if you don't do what they say.

Most middle of the road people of the world don't like extreemism in any form. It's when we encounter the ones that will kill us, that's when most of us give in. Everyone needs to stand firm and not put up with the too far rights and too far lefts.

Stand firm and tall. Say no to wackos of any kind. That might even include your friends and co-workers. Try to bring them around to reason and if they still talk smack tell them to shut up.

Davegreybeard writes:

"The desire for freedom, in ones life and
affairs, is a universal human desire. This is
what we fight for and what we champion."

Did you know that Islam translates to "submission", not freedom, or peace? Why do you think you know what Muslims want?

Why do you think you know what Muslims want?
Posted by: Charles Bogle

I do not “think” I KNOW - I know as one human being knows another.

Do you think that Muslims are some alien form of life and not subject to universal human desires? One of these desires is the freedom to conduct ones life as he wishes. Muhammad and the Qur’an have not changed this human trait. If you look you will see it in the world all around you – and in the very article we are discussing.

The “true believers” of Muhammad and the Qur’an appeal to those of us with a cruel, totalitarian bent. Fortunately those of us that would bully the rest with Islam, Communism, Nazism, etc. are a small minority. The bad news is that the vast majority of us, Muslims included, must be roused from our slumber to combat the murderous few – this has always been the case. We will not have to kill all the Muslims, or even most – only enough to prove to everyone that they are failures.

The victory will be won:
By relentlessly illuminating Islam with the white hot truth
And by clearly declaring to the world who we are and what we stand for

Kill the Jihadi - educate the Muslim

From DGB"Kill the Jihadi - educate the Muslim"

Ah, so it's the Western Man's burden. It's our duty to educate them. By building 'em lovely new shiny mosques, schools, roads in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Yep, we must go bankrupt for those oh so deserving muslims.

"One of these desires is the freedom to conduct ones life as he wishes. Muhammad and the Qur’an have not changed this human trait."

I think you are very naive about islam. Very.

A thought for you. In the free elections that heralded the constitution, Iraqis, both Sunni and Shite embraced the hard line parties, the secular muslim parties got a good shafting.

They were given freedom and chose a koran based Constitution.

In the West, it's the 2nd and 3rd generation muslims who are turning towards the MB. But how can that be? After all, they've been bought up in the free and open West. According your logic, these people who were born in the West should be the nominal muslims. In name only. But they are anything but.

As I've said, Operation "Iraqi Freedom" is ever Dhimmi's wettest of wet dreams.

Dying to help the poor downtrodden muslim.

Give me a break.

And now we have the bizarre and sickening spectacle of Infidel soldiers giving their lives so that countries can be ruled by islam.

The worst thing we can do is give muslims democracy. The worst thing. Saddam had it oh-so-figured out. But in true Keystone Coppery we put a stop to that.

"Muhammad and the Qur’an have not changed this human trait."

Posted by: Davegreybeard

Tell that to the tens of millions of jihadis in Serbia, Kashmir, Africa, and the middle east. islam is a zombie producing death cult in which human beings are brainwashed at an early age to hate unbelievers and to kill by sawing off heads. You know they make their kids behead animals don't you ? Makes for efficient, ruthless killers. And that is just a part of islam.

You might want to go through this site to comprehend how much havoc islam has wrecked on us Infidels since it came about.

http://historyofjihad.org

Kill the Jihadi - educate the Muslim

Your commets are predicated on the belief, rather like the current US administration, that all people 'desire freedom'. Really? Then why do moslems, when given the choice, consistently move toward ever more strict sharia, ever lesser freedom. Look around. Turkey is marching backwards as we speak toward the seventh century, Iraq voted for Shite Sharia, the Jordanians and Egyptians who occupy gaza and the west bank voted for Ham-ass, for god's sake.

Islam decays the ability to think rationally, in the way that your 'people who want freedom' must think for your belief to be true. It has to - so many of the things held true by mooselimbs are mutually contradictory, that a rational mind would explode trying to hold all of them together. It's for this reason that I have always and will always be in absolute awe of the 'ones who get away', the hirsi alis and ali sinas of this world.

October 17, 2007 Charlie Gibson reported on the evening news in a very somber tone as though it was such a sad event That No One Was Bombed, Shot or Beheaded in Iraq on this day. No deaths can't be a good thing can it?

To several of you above:
What a group of confused, depressed, navel gazing defeatists! You are so impressed with your knowledge of Islam that it seems to crowd out your knowledge of everything else – and your common sense!

We all agree that Islam brainwashes some of its believers into mind numbed killing machines and others into supporting the madness. The extent that Islam is perceived as “winning” is DIRECTLY proportional to its ability to gain adherents – including jihadi types.

WE HAVE YET TO CONFRONT ISLAM DIRECTLY ON THE BATTLEFIELD OF IDEAS. When we do, if we have faith in our core values, we will win.

As FiveOAdviser above states:
“No doubt they define their society around the parameters of Islam, as ours was around Christianity. The government thats in place at the moment has placed laws into effect that are constitutional and allow personal freedoms. Whether or not that will survive and move out to the provinces is what will be interesting to see. My prayers are that it does and what we've spent here will be worth it in that regard.
I guess what Im getting at is not every muslim here is a blood thirsty jihadist living to be oppressed or be oppressed.”

My friends, please focus on this last sentence. It is this MAJORITY of Muslims, all over the world, that will move away from true “hard core” Islam and begin to embrace democratic values. They will do this first because Jihadis will be repeatedly defeated on the battlefield, and secondly because the Jihadis will reveal themselves to be the murderous tyrants that they are (please contemplate the content of the article above). Secondly when Islam is honstly and TRUTHFULLY compared to freedom, MOST human beings, given an honest choice, will choose freedom.

I am well aware that the Palestinians chose Hamas in free elections. They were faced with two very bad choices and they chose poorly – of course this has never happened in OUR elections has it?

Ronnie said it best:
"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
- Ronald Reagan
(Posted by: Stinkyinfidel)

Our enemy’s weapons are Muhammad, the Qur’an, the Hadith and sharia.
We will WIN with truth, freedom,and a little help from our brave troopers – if we have faith in ourselves.

It is this MAJORITY of Muslims, all over the world, that will move away from true “hard core” Islam and begin to embrace democratic values. They will do this first because Jihadis will be repeatedly defeated on the battlefield,
---Posted by: Davegreybeard

Complete nonsense. The suffering, killing, and maiming of Muhammadans at the hands of infidels breeds more resentment, more fanatacism, more extremism and confirms the fiend muhammad as a prophet for predicting that the Christians would work in concert to wreak havoc on the muhammadans. See! It was 1450 years ago that muhammad predicted exactly what is happening now. By invading muhammadan lands, we have confirmed the jihadi world-view. The more we kill, the more arrogant and blood-thirsty we appear and the more they hate us.

I don't care if they hate us.

But a truly assinine idea is to think that we can force our freedom, our democracy and our rights on malevolent muhammadans at the point of a gun. And then win them over to our side.

It's works just the opposite and the jihadis know it.

What is “completely asinine” is your confusion about the conflict of your own culture with Islam - and what must be done about it.

“The suffering, killing, and maiming of Muhammadans at the hands of infidels breeds more resentment, more fanatacism, more extremism and confirms the fiend muhammad as a prophet for predicting that the Christians would work in concert to wreak havoc on the muhammadans.”

Now this is a statement of monumental ignorance! We do not create Jihadis because we confront them any more than we created Nazis by bombing Berlin. This is only exceeded by the mental obtuseness of following statement:

“The more we kill, the more arrogant and blood-thirsty we appear and the more they hate us.”

Wake up! We are in a battle of ideologies and yes when the dust finally settles Islam will be the looser. They strap bombs on themselves to kill us! It is not possible for them to hate us more than they already do, REGARDLESS of what we do! So take heart, the world is a free fire zone and Jihadis are the targets.

In the sense that Islam will be defeated, Muhammad was right to fear Infidels. The sooner we realize that we are in a FIGHT and get on with it the better off everyone will be – INCLUDING the Muslims that we liberate from their death cult of a religion.

Kill the Jihadi – educate the Muslim

Davegreybeard (President Bush, is that you?!)- Your anger, frustration, and ignorance about Islam would be better received at LGF.

MontyRockIV,

No anger. No frustration. Enough knowledge about the subject to have a very clear idea of what needs to be done. First on that list is to educate Infidels as to the nature of Islam, something I do almost every day – and I do feel good about that.

You, on the other hand, obviously have trouble paying attention.