A Battle Rages in London Over a Mega-Mosque Plan

Tablighi Jamaat “is a separatist organization,” Mr. Craig said in an interview in his living room where a picture of the crucifixion of Christ hung on a wall, a cross rested on a bookshelf, and a Bible lay on the coffee table.

Note how the reporter chose to emphasize Mr. Craigs's decor, rather than provide more information about Tablighi Jamaat.

a worldwide evangelical Islamic group

Evangelical Islamic?!!! What kind of moral equivalence is that?
Evangelical literally means preacher of the good News that Jesus Christ died for our sins. Is that what this "evangelical" Islamic group preaches?

This reporter is trying to equate Evangelical Christians with Muslims, just like many have fallen to the lie that Christians Fundamentalists as just as bad as Muslim fundamentalists.

The ignorance in Christian theolog by this reporter is amazing.

The New Duranty Times is a joke.

That leaves the field open to neo-fascists who confuse the issue with race supremacism and drive away people who might otherwise have been their supporters. If the major parties in Britain were worth anything at all, they would be leading the fight against this mega-mosque, and exposing the Islamic supremacist agenda of the Tablighi Jamaat........Maybe Atlas could learn this...instead of making snide remarks about Charles Johnson and LGF..who along with Jihad watch lead the fight aginst the jihad.

So the BNP are against it? Onoes! that means we must be for it because they're all horrid nazis and fascists and eat puppies and jostle grannies in the street!

Like it or not, and for whatever reason, the BNP are right on this issue and saying what most people only dare to think.
If the major parties had the courage of their convictions, they would say the same, but a shout of 'racism' sends them of to hide while spending loads of taxpayers money on muslim only issues (schools, imams etc)
I read LGF a lot, but Charles is dead wrong on this issue.
An overabundance of purity and what Orwell called 'Orthodoxy Sniffers' leaves us fragmented until its only thee and me - and I'm not so sure about thee.

"Karen Armstrong, a historian of religion, wrote an article in the liberal Guardian newspaper commenting favorably about the mosque"

A former nun who was on the platform at a literary festival in the last year. When a speaker began to criticise islam she physically blocked the microphone and refused to allow him to proceed.

Some liberal, but whatever she is she is not a historian.

Nothing will mainstream Sharia faster than for the men and women of conscience who are fighting Islamic intolerance to make common cause with the racist Right. It is the kiss of death.

We can oppose this mosque and other forms of Islamization without climbing into bed with the likes of the BNP and their fellow travelers.

..I am not a prophet, but I see house to house street fighting in UKs future...

Ban Muslim Immigration...

I would like to thank The Sheik for putting this up on his blog

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/11/04/nick-griffith-the-islamization-of-europe/

As long as we are critical of Islam we are racists whether or not we become bedfellows of the likes of BNP,SD and Vlaams Belang.

shiva...so you beileve the lie?...Charles has showed proof...and Robert just posted on this.....get in bed with neo-Nazi's if you please...but sleep on your back...or you may find a knife in it.

I also sent this article to JW. Here's a youtube video I found - the Muslims are already planning on killing Alan Craig. It's called "In Memory of Counsillor Alan Craig.":

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=Z8W4nBAFXBk

storagemanager

So you believe the lie?...Charles has showed proof...and Robert just posted on this

Charles has not proven a thing except being duped by Anti Fascist League propaganda, same bunch of morons that just attempted to snuff out the leaders of SOIE in Denmark

Anti Fascist League propaganda..Posted by: shiva..........Thank you...you just admitted they are Facist.

Wanting your own ethnic homeland is NOT racist. It is a basic human right. You people who call the BNP facists are stupid tools of the far left who have a tactic of continually slinging mud at the most democratic, honest and open party in Europe in the hope that some of it will stick.

Visit the BNP website then come back here and show us the 'facist' element.

Shiva: "As long as we are critical of Islam we are racists".

Oh, so in that case, what do you make of this report from the London Times? "... the plan to build Europe’s biggest mosque beside the London 2012 Olympic Park is attracting opposition from the Muslim community. The concern is not the building, but the activities of Tablighi Jamaat, the ultra-orthodox sect that is behind the huge mosque. A petition against the scheme, organised by Muslims in the East London borough of Newham, attracted 2,500 signatures in only ten days and is continuing to draw support. It says that allowing Tablighi Jamaat to build the mosque would aggravate community tensions".

This backs up comments made previously by Robert and others that some of the biggest victims of Islam are actually Muslims themselves.

Why don't you take you Race Card and shove it where the sun doesn't shine?

"The current BNP has its roots in the New National Front, founded in 1980 by John Tyndall, a former chairman of the National Front (NF)."

The BNP has simply learned to present a polished front.

Yeah, sorry, I'm highly, highly, critical of Islam - that's a religion. I'm not a racist. I never had anything against Muslims until 9/11, and the continuing Islamic attacks against others' worldwide.

I hate Islam, a "religion." It has nothing to do with race.

"I do not support the BNP in any way, and it is unfortunate that they initiated this campaign."

written by Mr Spencer, above

Mr Spencer,

Since when has the New York Times (a.k.a. the New Duranty Times) been considered reliable on this website?

The anti mega-mosque campaign was actually initiated by Councilor Allan Craig of the Christian Democrat Party, and by some local muslims, who were aware of the Jihadist links of Tablighi Jamaat. See here:

http://www.christianconcernforournation.co.uk/Press/16nov6.php

The BNP, quite simply, had nothing to do with it.

As for the source of the petition, there is much speculation as to who actually started it. However, even the Guardian didn't go as far as to suggest that the BNP had initiated it, which I am sure they would have done if they had any evidence at all:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2129601,00.html

In fact, I have only ever seen the claim that the BNP organised the petition on the New York Times' link above!

Therefore, unless any evidence can be presented beyond quoting the New York Times that the BNP party actually started the petition, let alone the campaign, then I would be grateful if you can remove your comment that I referred to at the start of this post.

Just as you don't support the BNP in anyway, nor do the majority of the petition supporters such as myself, and I feel the petition should not be linked with the BNP unless hard facts can be presented.

We can oppose this mosque and other forms of Islamization without climbing into bed with the likes of the BNP and their fellow travelers.

It's little different than allying ourselves with Russia in WWII. There is a greater evil to be fought, and Islam is it.

"If the major parties in Britain were worth anything at all"
That is the point, the major political parties in all the supposedly free nations around the world are not worth a pinch of the proverbial. What is the a problem with being proud of your country, being proud of your people, being proud of your heritage and traditions, honoring the sacrifices of our forefathers and supporting the BNP? Multiculturalism is failing and political correctness is killing us. The BNP goal is to secure a future for the indigenous people, and I don't see half hearted measures of lecture tours and debating Jihad and Dhimmitude on a website making any inroads into thwarting the islamic agenda...

it's crass reports like this which are leading to the destruction of western democracy and any attempts to highlight the islamification are drowned out by slurs of racism and islamophobia.

the initiator of this petition has since had her web site shut down, she did nothing illegal yet call for the mega mosque to be closed.

thank you all for helping to get her site shut down, you have done the islamics and the marxists a great service.

http://radicalmuslim.blogsome.com/2007/05/14/mega-mosque-petition/

" the English Rose blog has been closed down,"

the BNP organisation were not behind this petition. get your facts straight.

Posted by: storagemanager

Thank you...you just admitted they are Facist.

If you knew anything about the AFL in Europe and how far the have their heads up the islamofascist $rses then you would not make such moronic comments

Jihadwatch team: Once you post the letters BNP in any story, you encourage all its little monkeys - who are normally invisible on here - to come out of their cages and start howling. They're like the Ron Paul revolutionaries, only with far uglier views.

And BlowHammed, be very careful before you invite people to visit the BNP's website - they might stumble across a few dirty secrets. In this JW thread linked below, I point out some truths about the BNP - including its deep-rooted anti-Semitism, its barking mad conspiracy theories, its obsession with race, and its proud links with former KKK Leader David Duke. All the quotes are taken directly from its website (with links provided), and expose vile claims such as:

The Mossad carried out 9/11, aided by Jews in the US Administration;

Powerful Jews, backed up by Jewish media bosses, persuaded President Bush to invade Iraq to benefit Israel;

The US is using phoney "terrorism" as an excuse grab the world's oil supplies;

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/017485.php

The BNP has jumped on the threat posed by Islamism for no other reason than to further its own hateful agenda. Its leader, Nick Griffin - a convicted anti-Semite and Holocaust denier - freely admits this:

"We should be positioning ourselves to take advantage for our own political ends of the growing wave of public hostility to Islam currently being whipped up by the mass media. This is not a matter of dancing to neo-con tunes, but of finding members of the public who are already used to the sound of that kind of music willing to cross over and dance to our tune."

http://www.bnp.org.uk/columnists/chairman2.php?ngId=30

There may be doubts about the Vlaams Belang and the Sweden Democrats, but there are no doubts about the BNP. They are neo-Nazi through and through.

The BNP may be a bit nationalistic for some people's tastes but they are not the knuckle dragging Nazis they are routinely portrayed as.

The BNP have Jewish councillors.

At the last General election, the Labour party had an election poster that depicted 2 leading Jewish MPs as pigs.

Which would you more associate with Nazism?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4217009.stm

As usual, the hypocrisy of the political Left is nauseous.

looks like the UN is finally on the side of british nationalists...

Article 8.1:"Indigenous peoples and individuals have the right not to be subjected to forced assimilation or destruction of their culture" 8.2:" states shall provide effective mechanisms for prevention of , and redress for: (a) "any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural values or ethnic identities"(b)"any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories or resources"(c) "any form of forced population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights"(d)"any form of forced assimilation or integration"(e)"any form of propaganda designed to promote or incite racial or ethnic discrimination directed against them"

robert

Didnt you just share a platform with vlamms belang?

"There may be doubts about the Vlaams Belang"

""Vlaams Blok says: Our own people first!! And yes, Vlaams Blok chooses a Flemish Flanders. And yes, Vlaams Blok chooses a white Europe!" (Vlaams Blok-meeting, 1991) "

""Staf de Clercq is one of the historical leaders of the Flemish national movement. Our party, the Vlaams Belang, is the continuator of this movement. We may not deny this past. Although I realise that it might be difficult for Jewish readers to understand, most collaborators thought that they could realise an independent Flanders by cooperating with the Germans. Most of them are ashamed of the horror they caused. The only thing I can do today is to show understanding for the suffering of the Jewish people."(Ha'aretz, August 31, 2005. Staf de Clercq was a collaborator during the second world war, known for his words: "There is only one solution: Purification of our people, total and complete disconnection of the Jew from the peoples body.") "

Thank you matamoros for the link, although there was nothing in the article to suggest BNP are neo-Nazis, except for a neutral stance on the Palestine/Israel conflict which means that they are not pro-Israel and that means neo-Nazi. I get it.

"We should campaign to stop the EU helping to fund the Palestinian Authority and sucking up to the Arab world, not because we are or should be pro-Israel, but because there are far better things to do with our money, because we don’t want to drift into Eurabia, and because the entire place is of no proper concern of ours.

Even the question of oil should be dealt with by a Swedish-style crash program to wean ourselves off the stuff, not least because it’s an environmental disaster and is going to become scarce and so impossibly expensive sooner or later anyway. The only thing of any interest to us is that potential flood of refugees. Apart from that, what happens in the Middle East should be a matter of sublime indifference to a properly run Western nation."

I am becoming increasingly suspicious of all those who are doing everything they can to smear and discredit those who come out to fight the global jihad. Whether its Robert Spencer or Charles Johnson, whether Nick Griffen or David Horowitz or Daniel Pipes, for the commies and the Islamofascists we are all racist Islamophobic fascist Nazi's who oppress Muslims and spew fire when we don't steal the hearts and eyes of little Palistanian children.

What Charles Johnson has done is poison the well. Those who buy into this 'racist/Nazi/white-power garbage are beyond stupid and worthless in this fight anyhow.

I did listen to Nick Griffen and I didn't hear anything I didn't like. I invite you to do the same and stop digging yourselfs in a hole. The canniballistic lizards are a bunch of cheerleading cyber geeks, worthless if not opposed to this fight. Have you ever heard any of them offer any solution to the Muhammedan invasion? How do you make omelette without breaking eggs?

The soldiers of Allah kill and die for their religion, and what are they doing? Looking for Nazi's under the bed?

Sorry. Spit. Sorry. Doesn't work.

Take your time and listen. The man makes sense. He could be Churchills reincarnation:

http://www.sheikyermami.com/

leonthepigfarmer

Most impressed by your quote from the UN Charter.

When you posted it on the thread about the Labour "Think tank" plan to run down Christmas a couple of days ago I copied it onto the “Daily Mail’s” comments column on the same story. So far as I could see the moderator did not let it through. But when I Googled UN Charter Article 8.1 all I got was a couple of lines about something else. Can you tell me where I can find the original?

Many people signed that petition aginat the mega-mosque smack in the middle of London, who have nothing to do with the BNP and who, in fact, find much of what it has offered, and possibly still offers, deplorable. Two English signers of the petition, know to me both through their prior postings at this website and their present contributions to another website -- www.newenglishreview.org -- have always been implacably opposed to the BNP, yet were happy to sign that petition against the mosque. The article in The Times gives a different impression.

And there are implications, some possibly innocent, some not so innocent, throughout the piece.

Take, for example, this:

[After] "Karen Armstrong, a historian of religion, wrote an article in the liberal Guardian newspaper commenting favorably about the mosque, the paper’s Web site was deluged with complaints.

In Newham, the borough where the mosque would stand, Alan Craig, the leader of the Christian Peoples Alliance Party in the East End, started a one-man campaign against the mosque a year ago that has grown and gained national prominence."

There then follows a description of Alan Craig, his Bible, his cross on the wall, and all the other things which, nowadays, are offered up as signs of a True Believer in Christianity -- impliedly, a slightly disturbing spectacle, a worrisome or at least suspect thing, and we know how crazy those holy-rollers can be, don't we?

But look at how Karen Armstrong, herself so sweetly vicious in her anti-Israel views and transparent anti-Jewish views (transparent even as she expresses a phony outrage what Jews endured, at times, in Western Christendom, but only so that she might better defend Islam against charges of theological Jew-hatred which are not, pace Bernard Lewis, merely borrowings from modern European antisemites), a Defender of Islam and a practitioner of moral equivalence about terrorism that can practically be set to porterish music ("Jews do it, Christians do it, even educated Hindus and Buddhists do it"), is blandly described, this comical non-scholar, this ex-nun with her own scores to settle and private demons to propitiate, is lbandly described in The Times article as an "historian." And an "historian" who appears in the "liberal" Guardian. "Liberal" is it? That might work, it would work, in the good old fashioned sense of the word "liberal," to The Guardian, the Manchester Guardian, of C.P. Scott. But to the current Guardian, run by god knows who, exactly (Alan Rusbridger is officially in command), is not "liberal" but far left, and not only far left, but the epicenter, in the print media, of the Defenders of the Faith, that Faith being Islam, defensible in thought, word, and deed to the good doctors of The Guardian.

All in all, a better article than one is used to reading in The Times. But how slow that learning curve is to rise from its horizonal position -- in the case of the Western world, all learning curves about Islam may be described as "grandes horizontales," just as our ruling elites have been, when offered the sums and contracts and arms deals made available by the Saudis and other rich Arabs, "grandes horizontales" of another, older kind.

SHIEK YER MAMI about the BNP's Nick Griffin:

"The man makes sense. He could be Churchill's reincarnation."

I rest my case folks.

Let's not forget The Guardian newspaper has such political acumen that it was happy to employ a trainee journalist from Hizb ut-Tahrir, an islamic group banned in many countries.

Apparantly, they were unaware that this cuddly bunch would quite happily have thrown all it's homosexual staff from the tallest building and covered the feminists with a burkah given half a chance.

If the only significant resistance against Islam comes from fascists then a) the battle will be lost and b) the fascists' posthumous reputation will be much better than that of their mainstream contemporaries (and rightly so).

The resolution will be the bankruptcy of the welfare state. 60% of the US federal budget goes to social programs. Tax-generating young English professionals are leaving. They are being replaced with a largely dependent immigrant population, many of whom feel little loyalty to the government.

The government’s books are cooked. The US uses cash accounting to come up with a $9 trillion debt, but in reality (accrual accounting) it’s closer to $70 trillion, growing by $3 trillion per year and accelerating. 70% of American home equity has just been wiped off the books. Watch out bank solvency and consumer spending. Over half of my discretionary spending is on food and energy. Why are food and energy not included in ‘core’ inflation? Everybody agrees that things are unsustainable. Nobody talks about the end game.

Here’s some numbers on our non-entitlement debt:
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat-a.htm

Granny Weathermax, hi, hope all is well with you.

People like Cornelius and Charles Johnston have got a bee in the bonnet about Neo-Nazi's, but in truth very few of these people really exist.

Charles has managed to find superficial information at best about the VB, most of which was taken from the left that attack them by painting them as Neo-Nazi's. The picture that Charles posted in his first attack on VB was not even a VB rally.

As for the Swedish Democrats they chucked out all of the Neo-Nazis who created another party, and what does Charles publish, a picture of a rally before this split occurred.

And the rest of the proof, well the same PC rubbish of people in the public eye smeared as extremists trying to say that they are not fascists by smearing the VB, just as Charles is doing now, because Charles Johnson has to give the impression of not being a fascist to further his own position, along with banning loads of commentators on his site. That is the position of any person trying to influence policy in the USA, so thanks and no thanks for making it more difficult for us, we don't need simplistic anti-Fascist statements we get it all teh time from our Lords and Masters!!!!

There is a movement growing in Europe of people concerned with Islam, of course there will be some people in this movement who have views that I personally do not agree with, but it is going to be a broad based movement. And this simplistic no to Nazi's when anyone who opposes Islam is smeared with that brush gets us no where.

The fight will in the end focus on those in favour of freedom of freedom of expression, man made laws and democracy against those that do not, do not lose sight of that people.

I think that both the VB and SD parties are far ahead of the BNP in regards to becoming more mainstream and I feel that the BNP has some way to go, but it is attracting people who cannot simply be defined as Neo-Nazi's and in my view will drop its more extreme past as these people start influencing things. Take the ballet dancer, her boyfriend is Asian, is that a Neo-Nazi or white supremacist, nope its omeone concerned over the wrong type of immigration.

I had a good long look at the BNP, and was starting to get a good feeling until I came upon some comments on the Jews and their approach to the Middle East, which made me think that they are not there yet.

Of course Mr Spencer cannot support the BNP, and the BNP needs to fully walk the same path as the VB and others, but once a party has made that change at least open your minds to it and not follow the same knee jerk reaction that the PC brigade have forced you to take.

What a pity that this potentially useful thread has degenerated so quickly into a digression on the exact nature of the BNP and away from the mega-mosque. Had I known about the petition against the mega-mosque I would have signed it. Thank you Granny Weatherwax for your interesting and useful post above.
I am a practicing Jew and regard myself as a patriotic Englishman but it is my belief I would not feel comfortable in the BNP. I might add that I was totally opposed to Nick Griffin being prosecuted for alleged hate speech a few months ago.
It nauseated me when Gordon Brown (then the Chancellor of the Exchequor) came out and announced that [as Nick Griffin had been found not guilty] the laws needed to be changed to ensure future convictions. The tactics of a tyranny and a banana republic to outlaw free speech and the fight against Islamification. What was meant in reality was selective use of future draconian laws - no free speech to give a factual talk in private to an invited audience on the nature of Islamic teaching while, of course, allowing all sorts of Islamic threats and menaces to be made in public.

@ Fred

Are you sure this was Karen Armstrong at the literary festival? I was pretty certain it was the equally dhimmified Guardian hack and think-tank 'thinker' Madelaine Bunting at a literary festival. Maybe it happened twice - if so, par for the course.

@ HUGH

If you read the Guardians "Comment Is Free" postings, you'll notice that many people are wakeing up to the danger and argue against it.

Although if you cite too much historical evidence and quotes from the books it seems too much for people to take in.

But there is an obvious and definite trend discernable.

People are wakeing up and they're trying to find a way to articulate they're fears.

they're = *their*

Doh!

The BNP is not a nazi fascist party.
I love your work Mr. Spencer, but please stop spreading this nasty, libelous lie.

Mr Spencer makes the point he does NOT SUPPORT the
BNP,also that main Parties in U.K are FAILING embattled majority of voters.
Unfortunately if this Majority of Brits are continually IGNORED,DERIDED FOR WANTING A SAY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY, they will turn to the only Party who offers them any hope-which looks more &
more like BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY...
Balkanization of Britain is already advanced and
solution[apart from a miracle] will be a bloody one. Simple truth is-any ethnic tribe has the choice of FIGHT or FLIGHT from an INVADER.

I disagree with much of what Charles Johnson & his Little Green Footballers write, but on this subject he is correct. Anyone siding with Nazis, neo or otherwise, is a de-facto racist. BNP, VB, Sweeden Democtats, Gates of Vienna, whatever.

Get used to living in harmony with our Muslim neighbors. They're the new Europe and more are coming, like it or not. Better than the alternative of racist facism and Flemish "separatists".

@ Fred

The link to the original UN resolution and declaration is here:

http://www.ohchr.org/english/issues/indigenous/declaration.htm

The discussion about the BNP is an important one.

As the islamist presence grows in confidence and the traditional parties fail to act, we are likely to see small parties that are openly fascist or have a fascist history agitating in the national media and at street level.

I live in East London where there is a large muslim population and considerable BNP activity.

The BNP leadership has gone to great lengths to disguise it's policies against jewish and gay people in order to concentrate on muslims. However at local supporter level they are just as anti-semitic and bigotted as they ever were.

On a particulat issue (like the mega-mosque), it IS possible to end up on the same side as the BNP but for the wrong reasons.
We understand the totalitarian nature of islam and it's hatred of individual rights, but the BNP is not really concerned with this aspect, because they have a totalitarian background themselves. They dislike islam and muslims in general because they categorise them as foreigners. First and foremost it is a race issue for them - many of their supporters still use the word 'paki' and muslim interchangeably.

If there is a chance they we can be dismissed as being like the BNP, we must always make the distinction clear. If we don't, the racist charge will be used against us. I usually make it clear up-front, that non-British citizens can make a great contribution to the community and economy and this completely undermines both the BNP and the marxist arguments.

SmartGrowthAdvocate, LOL, you have to do better than that, please define racism, only the proper use of the word really counts for us:

Racism
a) Belief in the superiority of a particular race.
b) antagonism towards another race due to a)

That is what we should be judged on, and we are not guilty on both of those.

The BNP is a group of pathetic, hooliganistic bunch of losers. In a way it attracts the same sort of people that convert to Islam (social misfits).

Anyone that claims that the BNP isn't racist or anti-semitic is either deaf, illiterate or a simple liar. This party is on the same level as Le Pen's "National Front".

Definitely not the answer to anything.

Ginro;

Thanks for the link, it’s pretty rich. Did you notice that the US voted against the declaration?

United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

Article 8:

1. Indigenous peoples and individuals have the right not to be subjected to forced assimilation or destruction of their culture.
2. States shall provide effective mechanisms for prevention of, and redress for:
(a) Any action which has the aim or effect of depriving them of their integrity as distinct peoples, or of their cultural or ethnic identities.
(b) Any action which has the aim or effect of dispossessing them of their lands, territories, or resources;
(c) Any form of forced population transfer which has the aim or effect of violating or undermining any of their rights.
(d) Any form of forced assimilation or integration.
(e) Any form of propaganda designed to promote or incite racial or ethic discrimination directed against them.

Article 9

Indigenous peoples and individuals have the right to belong to an indigenous community or nation, in accordance with the traditions and customs of the community or nation concerned. No discrimination of any kind may arise from the exercise of such a right.

Posted by: zoltix

First and foremost it is a race issue for them - many of their supporters still use the word 'paki' and muslim interchangeably.

And what is wrong in calling them Pakis when Pakis take great pride in calling themselves Pakis

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/10/paki-pride-paki-pride-is-ma-mind-paki.html

__________________________________________________

Posted by: Paul

Why don't you take you Race Card and shove it where the sun doesn't shine?

And where might that be wise guy

Maybe you should educate yourself a bit about racism before you whine about BNP and talking about playing the race card

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/10/hard-look-at-racism.html

SHIEK YER MAMI about the BNP's Nick Griffin:

"The man makes sense. He could be Churchill's reincarnation."

I rest my case folks.

Posted by: Cornelius

You never had a case, Cornelius.

Now tell me, Cornelius: Have you bothered to listen to what Nick Griffen has to say? Why do you come here and poison the well when you don't even bother to inform yourself and then engage in informed criticism? What is your counter-argumentation?

You are the typical lemming who follows the mob.

I post it one more time, here. Just for you:

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/11/04/nick-griffith-the-islamization-of-europe/

Cruzado: prove it. You throw acid and accusations without backing it up. No good.

Zoltix: same goes for you.

Moris sez:

It nauseated me when Gordon Brown (then the Chancellor of the Exchequor) came out and announced that [as Nick Griffin had been found not guilty] the laws needed to be changed to ensure future convictions. The tactics of a tyranny and a banana republic to outlaw free speech and the fight against Islamification.

Couldn't agree more. That's what we're up against. We need all the help we can get.

Daffersd: Thank you.

'Smartgrowthadvocate' sez:

'Get used to living in harmony with our Muslim neighbors. They're the new Europe and more are coming, like it or not.'

Me thinks you are exactly what we are fighting. No, we are not ready so submit.

eloivsdiablo, granny, Leon, Shiva:

me thinks we're becoming increasingly infiltrated. Hard to say how many of the apologists for Islam are actually far left wimps or hardcore Islamofascist agit props.

It will sort itself out. As for me, anyone who doesn't come up with compelling arguments and uses smears like 'Nazi/racist/fascist/Islamophobe' to discredit us or any movement against Islam, is not one of us, but one of them.

We have to draw the line somewhere.

"The BNP is a group of pathetic, hooliganistic bunch of losers. In a way it attracts the same sort of people that convert to Islam (social misfits)."

you forgot to add "knuckle dragging Nazis" in your ramble.

SmartGrowthAdvocate

I live within a couple of miles of an “Asian area” and have done so for 30 years in which time my attitude was one of 10 per cent xenophobia and 90 per cent indifference. Then my work happened take me into one of these areas and perhaps you can enlighten me on the correct liberal attitude to the following experience.

I called on a Polish woman in her eighties who was the last white woman in a very long street of “Asians”. She had been a forced labourer in Germany during the war (for the nazis) and told me “Germans baddest people in the world, I city girl, they send me to milk cow, not give me food for a three day till I learned”.

Our Asian citizens like to stay together and thought so highly of this not particularly salubrious street that they were prepared to pay above market price for any property there. But she did not wish to leave because she had been there since she came to England in 1946 so they tried to encourage her by occasionally throwing bricks through her front window and an shouting “F*** off out of our street you white bitch and sell us your house!” Naturally she reported to this to the police and as she told us; “Police say they can do nothing too many Pakistani” she was right of course. She then bowed her head tugging a forelock and asked “All time in Germany I must do this to Germans, now all time I must do same to Pakistani - what the difference?”

Let me assure you this is not an isolated case and non-Asians in nearby streets were suffering less violent but no less continuous pressure to move out. Unless of course they were “hard cases” what might crudely be called “white trash” (BNP supporters?) they wisely left them alone - for the moment.

I do not blame you of course because unless you spend some time in one of these areas the press is so heavily censored you simply do not know what is going on. This very morning one of Britain's leading political commentators stated that he could not understand why people were worried by immigration. Where he lived in west London white people were practically a rarity and there was no trouble there. He seemed unaware that his salary of at least ten times the national average made his situation somewhat different to that of elderly white people living among illiterate Asian peasants in heart a our rich vibrant multicultural society.

BTW The term "peasants". My interpreter was at pains to tell me he was "Not like these people" and the chief liaison officer was driven to distraction by endless stream of public information leaflets/posters in Urdu “But I keep telling them they are a waste of money, because they are all illiterate!”

Tell you what, don't think about it, don't try and enlighten me just tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. If that doesn't make you feel better just tell me I’m a fascist.

BTW until I went to work there I sympathised with the Palestinians, now I back Israel 100%.

Ginro

Thanks

Typo!

"in the heart of our rich vibrant multicultural society"

An incredible amount of either self-hating whites always emerge to these discussions, or jews.

I might ask, how many of these "OH MY, BNP IS NAZI" posters happen to be jews? The jews are very vocal about their opposition to islam, when in truth the torah teaches the same things as the quran.

Shiva, maybe you should educate yourself about the English language before you respond to comments. I didn't whine about the BNP for the simple reason that I didn't make any reference to them at all!

I simply pointed out that your comment that "as long as we are critical of Islam we are racists" is ludicrous. You must be mentally ill if you think that any critism whatsoever of a religion that causes as much death and destruction worldwide as Islam is simply down to racism. You bigots seem to think that you can squash any reasonable and intelligent comment on the subject by playing the "Race Card". Sorry, pal, you can't.

As I pointed out (if you had bothered to read my post), a large number of muslims are opposing this group Tablighi Jamaat and their proposed Super Mosque. Are they all racist too?

More and more battles like this will continue to occur in non-Muslim countries as long as Islamists think they can get their way. The Islamists should understand that people who are not Muslim have reservations about the building of a megamosque. If such a mosque did not attract terrorists, the rest of us would feel more at ease. However, terrorists will probably use that mosque for their own evil purposes.

Loler:

Wow. That's so ridiculous that I'm torn between deleting it because it's offensive, and leaving it, because it's just ridiculous-- embarrassingly so, I think.

Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor

Fred....thanks very much for that post. I felt moved by your story and so so sorry for that Polish woman and any others caught in the same evil whirlwind. I too once sympathised with the Palestinians but since 9/11 I've been totally supportive of Israel. I've educated myself and read numerous books on Islam and kept up with this site. I've realised how utterly brainwashed I was by the MSM in Britain, primarily the BBC and the Guardian when really I knew nothing of the history of Islam, Israel and the Jewish people. I swallowed whole the Big Lie about Israeli 'occupation' and the myth of the so-called Palestinian people.
I have a close friend who is Israeli but lives in Holland and her experiences are strikingly similar to yours in London....constantly faced with Islamic anti-Semitism. And she lost all her father's side of the family in Auschwitz. It's truly tragic what is going on in Europe these days and so reminiscent of the 30s.

Thanks Marisol, as loler's comment is important to keep around so that we can know and confront our enemy.

loler, I am a Christian, but I completely support the Jews and Israel. Islam, on the other hand, I DO NOT SUPPORT, because of it's evil ideologies/evil prophet, Muhammad.

I hope and pray that this MONSTROSITY of a mosque is never built in London. But if Muslims insist on erecting this eye sore, then I would rather see it built in the heart of the middle east where it belongs; since ridding our world of evil Islam may not be possible, but containing it is.

Islam be gone!

Yes, another end of of this mess are the christians. I pray to the FSM that he would wipe out all religions because they bring nothing but misery anywhere they are found.

Marisol, thank you for supporting free speech. Too many still think that something they disagree with, they have the right to silence.

this post has become silly...and now for something completely different...
http://www.openskywebdesign.com/cms/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1

Recommend this article by Roger Scruton

Should he have spoken?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1696507/posts

"As long as we are critical of Islam we are racists whether or not we become bedfellows of the likes of BNP,SD and Vlaams Belang." Posted by: shiva

1. Speak for yourself.

2. Islam is not a race.

3. I am not a racist.

4. I will never become a bedfellow of the groups you mentioned or of any racist group.

5. The fight against the Islamification of our nations has nothing whatsoever to do with the colour of anyone's skin or their ancestors' country(ies) of origin.

"I would like to thank The Sheik for putting this up on his blog..." Posted by: shiva

In which the question is asked:
"Could Griffin be the new Churchill?"

*spit*

"The BNP goal is to secure a future for the indigenous people..." Posted by: eloivsdiablo

Who are the indigenous people of Britain?

Get used to living in harmony with our Muslim neighbors. They're the new Europe and more are coming, like it or not. Better than the alternative of racist facism and Flemish "separatists".

SmartGrowthAdvocate -

There is no 'living in harmony' with muslims. Haven't you been paying attention?

There will ALWAYS be unrest. ALWAYS. Islam has bloody borders.

There will be some peaceful, but there will ALWAYS be the extremely faithful pushing for no democracy and for all people to be muslims.

And fight them until all believe in Allah and Allah's prophet...

...that means you.

Marisol:

Thank you for not deleting loler's post. Let it stand, to give others an insight into the real mindset of the BNP.

"An incredible amount of either self-hating whites always emerge to these discussions, or jews.

"I might ask, how many of these "OH MY, BNP IS NAZI" posters happen to be jews? The jews are very vocal about their opposition to islam, when in truth the torah teaches the same things as the quran."
Posted by: loler

This anti-Semitic post was brought to you by a supporter of the BNP.

"Coincidence? I think not."

Folks please be aware that lefties love to use the race card in situations like this to divide people.
And also it wouldn't suprise me that some of the race card posters here are lefties trying to mess things up.

waltc - Silence implies consent.

DP111

A very interesting link.

Essentially we have a respected academic and I believe in atheist, saying that Enoch Powell’s predictions 40 years ago were perfectly correct. Not only that, he said it a year ago since when he has neither been fired nor driven from public life which is the normal fate of people who say such things in Britain.

This is an example of the British class system because a Conservative Party election candidate was fired today for saying the same thing in a newspaper column last week. The sacking has of course the full approval of the MSM.

"Who are the indigenous people of Britain?"

northern europeans of anglo-saxon celtic heritage.

does that answer your question?

or is that racist to imply that the UK, like the amazon rainforest tribes, does have an actual indigenous population.

btw, what school did you go to? you were never taught early british history? i'm shocked!

the british have an intrinsic folk lore and ancient history and culture. just visit lincolnshire as an example, watch the morris men in their ancient ritual dance, look for hidden stone circles and burial mounds dotted all over the ancient countryside. then listen to the diatribe from leftists to islamics telling me that i have no culture and no real indigenous people.
stop being racist towards us please, we have our rights so please respect the indigenous british race.

Josephine, do you want me to quote scripture from the Torah and contrast it to similiar text found in the Quran?

loler

please dont bother. the jewish people are a great race and are rich in family and decency and conservatism. you cannot ever compare them to islamic jihadists or even the muslim faith.

"'Who are the indigenous people of Britain?'

"northern europeans of anglo-saxon celtic heritage."

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer

I'm sorry, Leon, you're going to be further shocked when I ask you to break that down for me.

I grew up and went to school in Canada. In Ontario, I was taught early Canadian history. In Quebec, I was taught the history of Quebec.

Most of my ancestors were from England, Scotland and Ireland but I can only research as far back as the 1790s. So how do I know if I qualify as indigenous British? How do I know how far back my ancestors lived in Great Britain? How can I tell if some of them immigrated there at some point? How can anyone tell? I do have a Scottish complexion and hair colour; is that sufficient?

My 4th great-grandfather, born in England circa 1795, was Jewish. It's safe to assume that, at some point, his parents or ancestors immigrated to England (because weren't all of the Jews kicked out at some point and not allowed back in for a long time?). I don't know which country his ancestors came from.

So would this Jewish ancestor, and his ancestors before him, disqualify me as being "pur lain" British?

I know this is a stupid question (and I won't check Wiki; I'll ask you instead) but are Italians included in the group you listed?

"Josephine, do you want me to quote scripture from the Torah and contrast it to similiar text found in the Quran?" Posted by: loler

The Koran is a bastardized version of parts of the Old and New Testaments. Mohammed threw bits and pieces of a few religions into the pot, mixed them up, added his own convenient revelations and created Islam.

That's got nothing whatsoever to do with your comment which was, in effect, saying that Judaism = Islam, therefore Jews can't complain about Islam or the BNP.

I'm not interested in your comparison of verses. I've got a copy of the Bible and a copy of the Koran and I'm learning all about the bits that Mohammed cribbed.

Any similarities between Islam and any other religion are due to Mohammed's lack of originality or his desire to co-opt existing faith groups.

The essence of Judaism and the essence of Christianity, in their core tenets and texts, as well as in the way they are practiced by the vast majority of their adherents, are vastly and fundamentally different from Islam.

josephine

heres a goodish link regarding the british "race". http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1288231.stm

josephine

finally im not a racial purest, i dont think that there is a pure race on this planet. remember, we all came from 1 tribe hundreds of thousands of years ago! i would say that im a nationalist not a racial purest, but there is a distinctive people that live on the british isles and have adapted to the island and have lived there for 2 thousand years. surely they get the first say in how they run their little island? the same way that i would respect another countries laws and cultures. you probably are british canadian. judaism i believe doesnt affect your nationalistic make up. hope this is clear?

Smart Growth Advocate,

Are you serious arguing that letting Europe turn into an Islamic caliphate would be better than siding with 'racists'?

No one needs to respond to me, but consider the following quietly to yourself. When did racism become the unforgivable sin? Several of the political parties discussed on this thread want only to preserve their people and their way of life and protect it from Islamic hegemony. Yet these are applied the label of 'racists' by those sitting comfortably in front of their computers in the United States. IT IS NOT RACISM TO LOVE ONE'S OWN PEOPLE! It is rational, logical, and good. It is basic common sense accepted in every other part of the world but the West.

If the BNP, provided it can clean up its antisemitism, seeks to work toward preserving the British as an ethnic group against Islamic supremacism, it is their right to do so and we have no right to condemn them. To simply say that some of these nationalist parties are seeking to usher in a Fourth Reich of some type, complete with it's systematic death camps, ovens and all, is completely beyond the pale. You don't have to support them, but please avoid the Leftists tactics of a) guilt by association and b) labeling them 'racist' or 'fascist', which is nowadays equivalent to labeling someone a witch in medieval Europe. It has to stop. The English people live on English soil, and they have the right to do so without absurd demonizing from armchair pundits in the U.S. and without having to recite "la illa la Allah..."

Leon -- Thank you for the link and comments. It is getting late and I am tired, so I will take a gander tomorrow.

PRCalDude -- I agree that every country should have the right to protect itself from Islamization.

What, in your mind, is the difference between the ethnic British and those who are first, second or third generation British (excluding fundamentalist Muslims who clearly are opposed to our freedom and democracy)?

- Ethnicity?
- Religion?
- Heritage?

If the more recent British are mentally and emotionally fully British but not ethnically British, would you separate them into two groups? Would it still be us and them?

If, as you say, the BNP were to "clean up" its anti-Semitism, would it not also defend and include the second group? Say, for example, Brits whose ancestors originally came from Jamaica? Or would the BNP's focus still be on protecting those ethnic British?

Did the BNP exist before Islam became a serious issue for Britain?

It is late, so I will check for your response tomorrow.

Why is it that Islam in its modern and manifest form never has to answer the charge of racism, despite that it is the racist, religionist and anti-human major religion on the planet?

Christians and Jews are the descendants of apes and pigs, according to Islam. Any Jew is a Zionist worthy of being beheaded o the spot. CAIR et al. espouse media, legal and other forms of persecution against anyone who is not Muslim.

So who is "-ist" in all this? Islam is the ultimate hate machine.

NO mosques in the West until after a Church, Synagogue or Temple is allowed in Mecca.

And all mosques already in the West should be converted to museums, like the Hagia Sofia, until then.

I think Maetamoron is a watch dog on this site looking to defame anything that bears the initials BNP. The Shiek had a wonderful speech given by Nick Griffin at Clemson, we've watched Griffin being arrested for expressing the same views that most of us express on this site. We heard PM Brown saying he would change the laws to make sure Griffin is put away next time.

No party in England hits the nail on the head when it comes to Islam but morons are willing to dismiss them for some racist baggage that they may have carried years ago. Heroes rise to the occasion in all different forms at a time of crisis and Britain has its head in an Islamic noose. Take Nick Griffin for his word and I hope his word spreads throughout Europe and I'm glad his word came to America...and Metamoros, I wear no Nazi insignia, my father fought against them.

Storage manager

It was a nice try for you to use Robert's comment as a way to prove the he has aligned himself on a side in the dispute between LGF and a number of the Counter Jihad Europa participants.

Your claim that Charles Johnson is on equal footing with Jihad Watch in fighting the global jihad is laughable. His latest deleting and banning fest of those of us who wish to share our ideas with ALL of sides of the political spectrum shows Charles Johnson is no defender, or advocate of freedom of speech, much less a staunch defender of western and national cultural values that the jihadist wish to eliminate.

Robert's sole comment was about the BNP. No representative at the BNP attended that conference that I am aware.

It is a shame YOU bring this dispute into this forum. Robert's opinion is his own. He has obviously chosen to stay out of these blog wars as is his right. Yet, you deemed it preferable to try to enlist him as a supporter of one side, your side. I see he continues to concentrate on continuing the fight in the way he has always done since I've come here, and expect that he will do, by focusing on the dangers and threats first. If he is to remain neutral, fine. But your tactic needed to be addressed and now I am happy to do that.

By Charles Johnson's reasoning and methods of argument Robert can now be found guilty of racism by simply allowing many of the comments here to remain. All of us know that such a claim is blatantly false and that method of argument is fallacious. Yet, it doesn't stop Charles Johnson from using this method to defame people by accusations of racism when he knows nothing about them.

And how convenient of you to use this forum to express your views and have exchanges with many europeans he defames, who believe in the value of the counter jihad europa movement and that their cultures, ethnicities and histories are worth defending.

You can't have this exchange at LGF so you come here. I notice your ID and that you are a regular poster at LGF. You are aware of Charles Johnson's virtual rampage of banning comments identical to ones being posted here and of the same posters here who dare challenged his statements. Many who post here regularly have been banned at LGF, including me, Sheik yer mami, Daffersd, for engaging in the same type of discussion you see in this thread. We were banned with the additional insult of being labeled "rascist".

Tell Charles Johnson of this thread here at JW.
Tell him no posts have been deleted, No poster banned. (Marisol, if I am incorrect please inform). It is a model to use in the proper exercise of the rights free speech and exchange of ALL ideas. In particular, see loler's highly offensive posts, still available for all to see.

Our European friends have a problem. Their governments, instead of offering solutions, exacerbate the problem by limiting their rights to free speech and dissent. You and Charles Johnson do not offer any ideas or suggestions on solutions to that problem but go to extraordinary means to make the problem worse. Now, those participants have been forced to defend themselves from Charles Johnson's wild, careless accusations and childish methods of argumentation.

It would have been a fair comment to point out to observers about some of the Counter Jihad Europa participants' backgrounds. But that was not his message, at least not the way I and many others interpreted. And now, its become his personal obsession to dig up as much dirty laundry he can, and defame the very people who need the assistance in fighting the global jihad.

Go back to LGF, storage manager. If you can be heard above the din of that echo chamber and tell them many here don't buy that story about LGF "leading the fight against the global jihad".

USorThem--

With apologies to George Thorogood (and John Lee Hooker):

One deletion, one edit, one banning.

(Banning and deletion on the same poster. No substantive point in the post-- venom and foul language.)

The Koran is a bastardized version of parts of the Old and New Testaments. Mohammed threw bits and pieces of a few religions into the pot, mixed them up, added his own convenient revelations and created Islam.

Circular firing squad anyone?

NO mosques in the West until after a Church, Synagogue or Temple is allowed in Mecca. Posted by: profitsbeard

I would change that statement ever so slightly:

NO mosques in the West until after an equal number of Churches, Synagogues and Temples are permitted in Mecca.

Perhaps then, I can be convinced there is such a thing as "moderate Islam". Certainly, thats not a concept I plan on holding my breath for.

What, in your mind, is the difference between the ethnic British and those who are first, second or third generation British (excluding fundamentalist Muslims who clearly are opposed to our freedom and democracy)?

- Ethnicity?
- Religion?
- Heritage?

Not much, in my mind. If they consider themselves loyal British subjects, they should vote BNP right along with the rest.

I don't fully understand the demographic problems over there. I do know that a lot of ethnically British are leaving, and a lot of eastern Europeans, Muslimms, and Indians moving in. The eastern Europeans can just leave if they want, as can the Indians, because a lot of them still have plenty of ties to their old countries. The Muslims aren't going anywhere and the British belong there. I'm not sure how much the Indians and eastern Europeans there would be willing to help out in some counter-jihad efforts, but my guess is that their involvement has been nil up to this point.

I don't think the BNP is some kind of an ethnic purity checker, and I'm not defending them per se. I am defending the concept of sticking up for one's own ethnic group through the ballot box. For crying out loud, every other group is allowed their identity politics.

"In Newham, the borough where the mosque would stand, Alan Craig, the leader of the Christian Peoples Alliance Party in the East End, started a one-man campaign against the mosque a year ago that has grown and gained national prominence"....from headline.

One man/woman really can make a difference.

The only good thing about mentioning the BNP in a story on JW is that it brings all the maggots out of the apple - all the closet white supremacists, anti-Semites, racial obsessives, religious weirdos and all the other oddballs who have latched themselves on to the counter jihad cause.

The ones for whom anti-Islamism is just another string to their already over-strung bows. The people who recognise that, yes, there is a problem with Islam, but who still have their eyes firmly fixed on what they in their own minds have identified as the real threat, be it “the Jews”, “race mixers“, “vice and immorality”, “International Socialism” or some shadowy secretive cabal that they’ve convinced themselves is really running the world. Think Dale Gribble, but without the laughs.

These people bring nothing to the cause but can cause it enormous damage. If we allow the counter jihad to be hijacked by political extremists for their own ends, then all is lost.

Take this story, for example. Robert’s original post mentioned the person who really is spearheading opposition to the mega mosque: Cllr Alan Craig, leader of the UK’s Christian Peoples Alliance party. I’ve met Alan Craig, and know his party. It’s membership and support - certainly in Cllr Craig’s constituency - is largely made up of black African Christian immigrants. People who have seen Islamism up close in their home countries, and want to stop its rise in their adopted home.

What do we say to these people? They share our language, our concerns and our values, they are committed to and practice the Christian religion, and are opposed to Islam. But they have dark skins. Can we expect them to stand alongside us if we offer support to a party that despises them and views them as second-class citizens? Can we stand alongside them, while backing the BNP, without being appalling two-faced hypocrites? The answer, of course, is no.

Offering succour to the BNP, or any other white supremacist / neo- Nazi party, may gain the CJ a few extra adherents, but it will alienate the critical mass - liberals, Jews, homosexuals, non-white Christians, Asians, ex-Muslims, mainstream conservatives etc - that we need to win over if we are going to defeat the Islamist threat.

Let’s face it, when a lot of posters on here talk about “preserving our Judaeo-Christian heritage” what they really mean is “keeping it white”. It doesn’t matter to them if immigrants are committed Christians - if they’re not white then they cannot belong. The problem with this dream of an all-white Britain or an all-white Europe is that not only is it a hopelessly unachievable fantasy, but that in the real world it actually puts people off.

I know that the BNP fans on here will find this hard to believe, but the 99.3% of the electorate who neglected to support the party in the 2005 General Election did so not because they were “lefto-fascists” or part of some huge international conspiracy, but because they found the party totally unappealing. To be the only party (then) campaigning against mass immigration, in a nation where something like 80% of people say they are opposed to mass immigration, and yet to receive just 0.7% of the vote - surely that must tell even the most ardent BNP fanatic that something is critically wrong with the party‘s approach?

Oh, and by the way Briars, I’m not a “watch dog” looking to defame the BNP, just an ordinary Jewish Londoner who has been on the receiving end of “nationalist patriotism” both as a child and as an adult, and who will oppose any group or individual - neo-Nazi, Muslim or religious oddball - who demonises me. If you have a problem with that, tough.

Looks like the People's Christian Alliance Party might be the counter-Jihad party for Britain, assuming that they do what the BNP does in directly naming Islam as the enemy. The 'People's' in the name does suggest Socialist underpinnings: anybody confirm this? Also, how are they about including under their umbrella Jews and other non-Christian Infidels who are anti-Islamic?

One thing, Matamoros - I don't know what, if anything, Judeo-Christian means in Britain, but here in the US, it implies a non-secular coalition, where Secular Progressive Athiests are the enemy: nothing to do with White or non-White. As a Hindu, there was a time that I wasn't too thrilled about that myself, despite being on the Right on every other issue. However, the advances that Islam has made in US society - be it footbasins, or in my last job, the sight of a Muslim colleague washing his feet in my office restroom sink - convinced me that rooting for a secular/agnostic/non-Judeo Christian establishment was only going to make Islamic inroads into US life easier, rather than harder. Let's face it - US heritage is largely Judeo-Christian based, just as Israeli heritage is Jewish based, or Indian heritage is Hindu based. This doesn't imply that non Christians/Jews/Hindus (in each example) don't have rights to practice their religions, let alone be deported from these respective countries: all it implies is that the religious part of the cultural underpinnings of the countries should be supported, if that country is not to end up Islamizing.

Like I've said in the past, I'm all for supporting other parties in Britain that are willing to be as aggressive about Islam as the BNP, without endorsing racist or other controversial attributes of the latter: UKIP could be one example, and this People's Christian Alliance Party is another. I do see the point of those above who argue that if the BNP is the only anti-Islamic party in the field, one ought to hold one's nose and support them to make it understood to the rest of the field that there is a political price to be paid for grovelling before the ummah.

loler, the Torah does not teach the same thing as the Quran, have you read both? Obviously not...

Matamoros, come on think about it, your saying someone like me is a "closet white supremacists, anti-Semites, racial obsessives, religious weirdos and all the other oddballs who have latched themselves on to the counter jihad cause"

Well I have always supported Israel and the Jewish people, and never again means exactly that to me. However I support the development of a political movement in Europe to defend certain principals which I detailed in an earlier post, I expect that at times it will be rough, and there will be issues with certain people, but does that mean that we do not bother at all because a very small number of people people might have Neo-Nazi tendencies, this is the real world where the cards are already stacked against us with the fascist left and Islamics both out to get us. It is not some sort of idealistic heaven with everything about to fall into our pure laps.

People seem to be following the PC Nationalist is a White Supremist line, it is not as simple as that.

UsorThem is an American who has understood the situation in Europe, unlike the lizard herd who take joy in Europe falling to Islam and attack anyone who stands up for Europe as racists, it has made me realise that when we end up having to fight, we might also end up on the receiving end of US bombs if these people are in power in the USA...

Matamoros - excellent post, that clearly shows the secret agenda of the BNP.
The BNP's real concern is with 'whiteness' rather than countering jihad.

It's overall nature and structure is totalitarian - it even has it's own cult of the leader. In this respect it is, in fact, very similar to islam. Although they have made minor changes to their policies over the years this is one feature that has remained constant from the 30's through to the National Front of the 70's and now the BNP of today.

If you ask a BNP member about an 'indigenous' white British person that converts to islam, they have no real answer nor concern. They know little about the real nature of islam and can't use their 'go back to your own country' slogan in this case.
When you talk to them, you realise how unsophisticated they are. Their conversations are littered with 'nig' 'paki' 'jew boy' 'puff' and their world view really is one of black versus white.

DP111, that was an excellent link, thanks.

How stupid we all are falling for this wedge political issue? Someone is trying to divide us all.

I don't like a lot of what is going one. But divided we can't win.
Don't ask me for the right answer. I haven't got it other than what I said above.

Just today my sister discovered she has a white supremacist working at the office. She almost keeled over. He really believes the "Jews control the world" and has a university degree.

She had to explain there are only 14 million Jews on the planet - he didn't know that.

He was a true believer in the new World Order and the Illuminati.
Heaven help us all!
(is you haven't come across any illuminati sites please look at them).

loler:'An incredible amount of either self-hating whites always emerge to these discussions, or jews.'

No self-hating Jews emerge then loler?

Last time I looked I was white ... and of Jewish ethnicity. Should I self-hate myself for this double whammie perhaps?

Erm... No, I don't think I will. And I'll continue voting for the 'Evil, Bigoted, Racist, Nazi Fascists of the BNP' Terrible thing democracy no? :oo

As far as I can see, the only self-hating honkies out there are those of the far left who swallow the multi-culti dream scenario where we all live together in peace and harmony. Ain't goona happen. Ever. They are played for useful idiots by the Islamic fundamentalists but can't see it. No surprises there then eh?

PRCalDude -- I think I see your point. A lot of people are leaving England.

We'll have to agree to disagree on groups such as the BNP.

I'm not trying to pick on you but I'm having a hard time with this:

"I am defending the concept of sticking up for one's own ethnic group through the ballot box. For crying out loud, every other group is allowed their identity politics."

It's the ethnicity thing. Can we separate the colour of our skin from our shared citizenship? I don't "vote white".

I look around me in Toronto and I see many people of different ethnic origins. Just from observation, I would say that white people are a minority here. If the folks I see are recent immigrants, then obviously they come from a different culture (but it's not obvious how different). If they've been here a while, then they probably share the same culture, plus their own family's heritage, which gets diluted over time.

Of all of the people in Toronto and Canada, the only ones I am concerned about are those Muslims who take their Islam seriously enough to want to force it on non-Muslims. They're the only ones who pose a real threat to me enjoying my Canadian culture. (Don't get me started on socialists and others who are aiding and abetting this threat.)

My politics focus on democracy, freedom and human rights. Ethnicity is not the focal point for me. Once we focus on the colour of our skin, we are separating ourselves from a large part of humankind and from many of our fellow countrymen.

I do think that England has been taking in too many immigrants. The change has happened too quickly. Many immigrants are failing to assimilate. It sounds as if some government policies favour immigrants over "native British" (meaning white people born in Britain whose families have been in Britain for a long time). That is wrong; it's racist.

With groups such as the BNP, is the fight solely against Islamization or is it a fight to keep Britain "British", meaning ethnically British, meaning white, anglo-saxon, celtic, etc., which happens to coincide nicely with the fight against Islamization?

Michael Coren wrote an interesting column in Saturday's Toronto Sun about the consequences of not requiring immigrants to assimilate:

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Columnists/Coren_Michael/2007/11/03/4627714-sun.php

Matamoros:

You say that you are 'just an ordinary Jewish Londoner who has been on the receiving end of “nationalist patriotism” both as a child and as an adult, and who will oppose any group or individual - neo-Nazi, Muslim or religious oddball - who demonises me. If you have a problem with that, tough.'

What do you mean by "on the receiving end"? Do you mean you were physically attacked or verbally abused? When was that exactly? Were the culprits National Front supporters or just nutters (or both)? Bear in mind that the BNP now has no links with the National Front.

You claim to know a lot about the BNP - no doubt based on the lies and half-truths emanating from the relentless smear campaign run by the UK's leftist media - and are clearly bigoted against those with whom you disagree. Do you think that honest debate is possible when you refer to people you don't even know as "maggots out of the apple", "oddballs", "anti-Semites" (you remembered the capital "S" - well done!) and "religious weirdos"?

Yet again you have gleefully trotted out your catchphrase: "99.3% of people did not support the BNP in 2005".

But you neglect to mention the April 2006 YouGov poll regarding the popularity of BNP policies, the findings of which were published in the Daily Mail. See Most Britons actually support BNP policies:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=384167&in_page_id=1770

where you will find that:

59 per cent of people supported a halt to all further immigration to the UK - one of the BNP's main pledges - when they were not told of the far-right group's association with the policy.

Yet:

Among those who were told that it was a BNP commitment, support for the policy was only 48 per cent

and:

More than a third of people, 37 per cent, said they would seriously consider voting for the BNP's policies in an election. But identifying the BNP with the policies caused support to fall by 17 per cent

Clearly the BNP has a poor image. Why? Because it has been subjected to a relentless smear campaign - of which your ill-informed comments are yet another example.

You are so convinced that you are right, yet offer no solutions to the rise of Islam. The "mainstream" political parties (I know you are a Tory, by the way, as I've seen your monicker on a Tory web site) offer no solutions to the problem. Is Mr Cameron the new Churchill? I think not.

By the way, I support Israel and admire the Jewish people. And no - I don't have a "secret agenda" (to quote your friend zoltix) - this is what I truly believe. I saw the film Vengeance with Eric Bana (and read the book) and thought: good for you, Israel! - that's the way to do it.

I travelled past a synagogue in Elstree on Saturday and was amazed to see security guards outside. I had not realised that this is now common practice. I could be wrong, but I very much doubt that the threat of attacks by crazed BNP supporters are the reason.

Furthermore, my grandmother was ethnically cleansed from Sparkhill in Birmingham. Her street - which had been white working class up until the 1970s - changed (without her consent) to a Pakistani Muslim ghetto over the course of about a decade. A man (a Pakistani immigrant) broke into her house one night with the intention of attacking her. We know this because nothing was stolen. Luckily he failed to break down one of the inner doors so she survived. But after that she had no option but to move out. She was in her 80s at the time.

As long as the concept of being a "fascist" is somehow morally worse than the concept of islamic fundamentalism, then the west still has not fully appreciated the gravity of the situation. As long as the concept of "nazi" still draws a more visceral reaction than the concept of "jihadist", then we still have a long way to go. As long as the concept of "racist" still holds a greater stigma than the concept of female genital mutilation, then the fight has not yet even begun.

What this kerfluffel proves is that many, many of those skeptical of the islamic presence worry less, in fact, about the destruction of our way of life and actually more about their own personal ethics and political philosophies. That is too bad, because it shows that they still do not take the threat of islam seriously enough. For them, this is still just a hypothetical threat - this idea of returning to the 7th century so their anti-jihad position is more of an intellectual exercise, being that the terms fascist, racist, and nazi carry much more weight, and generate much more of visceral reaction in them, than anything we actually are facing - such as the total destruction, not only of our liberties, but of our western way of life - our music, our art, our sexuality, even our history. They don't actually believe such a thing could really happen in our modern western world, it's too far fetched, too much of a right-wing fantasy, so they are not willing to break eggs to make omelets.

Complicating this apathy, is the moral equivalence of the affluent but decadent West. Many feel we can fight this islamic threat from ivory towers while still paying homage to the politically correct ideal that the concepts of "racist", "fascist" and "nazi" are concepts morally equal to, or in fact, worse, than anything represented in 7th century arabia. This moral equivalence is a uniquely western prejudice, a dementia if you will, born of guilt, and fear, of our own past. Ultimately, many of us intellectual anti-jihadists, and that is what we are, really fear and loathe ourselves more than we fear or loathe the islamic threat. The Left should rejoice in this. For that idiom is, and always has been, the message of the Left that, ultimately, it is the white Christian world that needs to be feared most of all.

Pity.

zoltix- I heard the secret recording of BNP Griffin by the BBC. He didn't talk like that at all, only talking about islam being dangerous. Do you have a recording of him speaking like that? I would like to hear it or the transcipts.

Divided you will fall.

Remember, you can come back from the right, you will never come back from islam.

"To be the only party (then) campaigning against mass immigration, in a nation where something like 80% of people say they are opposed to mass immigration, and yet to receive just 0.7% of the vote - surely that must tell even the most ardent BNP fanatic that something is critically wrong with the party‘s approach?"

True. On the other hand: When 80% of people are against mass immigration and yet fail to elect politicians who oppose the continuing invasion - surely that must tell even the numerous immigration skeptics that something is wrong with themselves also? In a democracy the political class exists on people's mercy. Politics is about numbers and everyone can become a party member and contribute to vote down traitors who run for parliament. If hardly anybody is willing to sacrifice the Friday night beer for that purpose and the majority in general follows the path of least resistance, then the moral right to criticize BNP is questionable and Islamic rule is as deserved.

jihadwatcher- Agreed.

Someone at LGF wrote that they would rather live next door to a moderate muslim than to Britney Spears.

I would not. No matter how nice a moderate muslim is, they represent the big picture. Their children will one day turn the west into an islamic country. At least Britney Spears will one day grow up.

That kind of thinking shows me that people are not looking at the big picture.

I don't think most people here are keeping that in mind. One day they will wake up and realize it is too late. Or their children will. If they even bother to have any.

zoltix

"Their conversations are littered with 'nig' 'paki' 'jew boy' 'puff' and their world view really is one of black versus white"

I do not doubt for one minute that this is true I must point out that the government and media establishment devotes considerable effort to keeping professional people out of the BNP.

I belong to a non-political and indeed multi-racial Club which at one time included a member of the BNP although none of us were aware of it because politics and religion are specifically barred from discussion. Almost certainly as a result of the one member who knew about him, an Indian Christian as it happens, we were infiltrated by “Searchlight” the anti-fascist organisation which is funded by the trade unions and the government controlled National Lottery. These people are volunteers, and are described as “Brave” and “respected political detectives” in the MSM, not like those nasty Stasi who did much the same thing in East Germany. The BNP member was “outed” in the local paper, left the club and was obliged to sever his links with the family firm which was heavily reliant on government business. It did not finish there I, - given up all politics but was a member of the Labour Party - had a long standing invitation to address a Rotary Club lunch on a non-political subject withdrawn at very short notice and a graduate who was trying to join the police found her application kept getting “lost” until she gave up.

You'll also know that quite recently an investigative journalist joined the BNP Head Office with the specific purpose of hacking into their membership records. I think he spent the best part of two years specifically trying to identify and eliminate by “naming and shaming” anyone above the level of road sweeper.

So yes, they are not brain surgeon material but let’s be honest and say the establishment devotes a considerable effort to seeing they remain that way.
.

Leon -- I am glad that you are not a racial purist.

I have read the BBC news article that you linked to; thanks. It pretty much says that the native British are a mixture of various ethnic groups and gives time frames for waves of immigration from various countries.

I wonder where the BNP draws the line for who qualifies as native British? What is the cut-off year for being acceptably ethnically British? (I don't expect you to have the answer.)

Leon, you said that you are nationalist, and I believe you. But it sounds as if the BNP are more interested in "race" than you are. It's the mix of the two that concerns me.

You asked about who gets to say how a country is run. In a democratic country, the majority (of those who get off their butts and vote) get to choose most of the members of their governments. If we disagree with the decisions made by those governments, we have to make a big stink and hope it accomplishes something.

Unless native rights are enshrined in a constitution (such as rights of the French in Canada), the majority rules, no matter what the native ethnic group may want. But even those constitutional rights may be changed or taken away as the demographics of a country changes.

I agree that, in issues such as immigration policy, the average citizen is not consulted. Our towns, cities and countries are changed without our consent or input. Given that this has happened and is happening, I think it is up to citizens to get involved and become more vocal.

Is it necessary or desirable to align oneself with a group such as the BNP? I would not do it. If there was no other group concerned about changing immigration policy and defending and maintaining our democracy, then I hope I or others would have the time and energy to work for change within existing groups that do not have racist underpinnings or backgrounds.

I am opposed to limiting or stopping immigration based on race or ethnicity. As to how immigration should be managed regarding the threat of Muslims who take their Islam seriously, well, I don't know. I'm still reading the articles on this site and others and still trying to figure that one out.

The larger (philosophical but also practical) question, for me, is this: How do we defend our countries from the threat of Islam without reverting to a tribalistic mindset?

I think it would have to start with Islam being recognized by our governments as a political movement and not just a religion and would have to include the clear distinction that Islam is not a race.

BUSH SAYS ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE

BLAIR SAYS ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE

NASTY NICK SAYS ISLAM IS EVIL

Who do you trust

Immigration not based on race or ethnicity leads to multiculti countries.

A bit of multiculti leads to interesting places to go and new foods to eat.

More leads to the indeginous people having to make accomodation to their lifestyle.

A lot of multiculti leads to tension.

Too much multiculti leads to a shift of civilization for the country. By war or demographic takeover.

That is not only based on race, but simply on more than one culture living together.

Are you ready for a civilizational shift? A complete change in your country?

Do you think the Christians in Lebanon and Nigeria were ready? They are adjusting to their new muslim overlords. Same race by the way.

.
.
.

Where will you emigrate to if you need to get away?

I agree with Fjordman. Europeans and Western peoples need a safe haven. Every other race has a safe place to return to if the situation should erupt. If muslims decide to cleanse your area, as they have been doing in certain places, where will you run to when there is no where left that they don't control? When the riots broke out in Los Angeles the races ran to their own areas. Where would you go? How about the Bradford riots? It didn't take the muslims long to burn down places that weren't muslim owned. What happens when it goes country wide? Look at France two years ago. It could have been much, much worse. To think that this situation where you need somewhere to go couldn't happen is foolish. It can. Hopefully it won't. The people of Europe could have never predicted that two wars would destroy it when the world was feeling very modern and worldly. The Romans could not have predicted their civilization being destroyed by immigrants either.

But this isn't about race. It's about islam.

The BNP is at least bringing the muslim issues out into the light of day in a country that isn't allowed to discuss anything about it.

It's the ethnicity thing. Can we separate the colour of our skin from our shared citizenship? I don't "vote white".

I look around me in Toronto and I see many people of different ethnic origins. Just from observation, I would say that white people are a minority here. If the folks I see are recent immigrants, then obviously they come from a different culture (but it's not obvious how different). If they've been here a while, then they probably share the same culture, plus their own family's heritage, which gets diluted over time.

Josephine,

Many people assume that ethnicity is simply the content of melanin in one's skin. I've been following the science of population genetics quite a bit, and it turns out that there are some rather significant differences in a host of things between people of different ethnicities. Suffice it to say, culture doesn't merely fall from the sky. It results from a specific people, a geography, and religious presuppositions. I'm not suggesting that ethnicity is the only issue, but neither am I suggesting that it has no bearing on culture.

The fact that you've noticed that you're a minority in your city suggests to me that immigrants are coming too quickly to be assimilated.

The only good thing about mentioning the BNP in a story on JW is that it brings all the maggots out of the apple - all the closet white supremacists, anti-Semites, racial obsessives, religious weirdos and all the other oddballs who have latched themselves on to the counter jihad cause.

That's not going to work anymore on us, Matomoros. Not this time. All of us who've been subjected to the LGF and HotAir bannings and obfuscation over the past couple of weeks see your statement for what it is: spiritual terrorism being used to shut down debate and silence opposition.

Considering how much you say you hate fascism and racism, it's odd how well you employ the tactics of the Nazi movement in it's infancy:

"I understood the infamous spiritual terror which this movement exerts, particularly on the bourgeoisie, which is neither morally nor mentally equal to such attacks; at a given sign it unleashes a veritable barrage of lies and slanders against whatever adversary seems most dangerous, until the nerves of the attacked persons break down and, just to have peace again, they sacrifice the hated individual(s). However, the fools obtain no peace. The game begins again and is repeated over and over until fear of the mad dog results in suggestive paralysis.........Conversely, they praise every weakling on the opposing side, sometimes cautiously, sometimes loudly, depending on the real or supposed quality of his intelligence".

- Adolph Hitler, from Mein Kampf, on the 'spiritual terror' tactics employed by his Nazi movement.

If you really are Jewish, then you're obviously of the self-loathing type like Abraham Foxman and his ilk who spend all their time looking for white Christian antisemites while at the same time fawning over Ahmadenijad.

What? Don't like having your character questioned and your motives impugned? Then don't do it to us.

heroyalwhyness-

"I would change that statement..." about permitting a Church, Synagogue, or Temple in Mecca to "...an equal number of...".

I think the impossibility of even one being allowed demonstrates the utter intolerance of Islam at its root.

If they permitted just one, it would mean that Islam had shifted completely.

And then any number would be possible.

But I see no change likely, since the Muslims insist that Mohammad said "no other religion" should be ever allowed in the area around Mecca (and then they later extended to mean "Arabia" -or "Saudi Arabia"- entire).

Fred quoted zoltix:

"Their conversations are littered with 'nig' 'paki' 'jew boy' 'puff' and their world view really is one of black versus white"

I cannot let this go unchallenged because it is complete nonsense. It is so easy to make these baseless accusations in cyberspace, but they are completely unprovable and, as such, equate to malicious propaganda. Stick to what you can prove.

(What does "nig" mean, by the way? I've never heard of this word before. Also, why is it acceptable to abbreviate the word "British" to "Brit" but not acceptable to abbreviate "Pakistani"? Just curious.)

zoltix talks about the "secret agenda of the BNP". By its nature, a secret agenda is secret so neither zoltix nor Matamoros could possibly know it, even if it existed. The clue is in the phrase.

I could quite easily accuse any organisation of having a secret agenda but without proof it would be empty rhetoric.

How fortunate it is for us, however, that Islam's agenda is not a secret. You should therefore concentrate on opposing the known threat rather than launching a groundless invective against an unknown one, and be thankful that people such as Nick Griffin are brave enough to fly their anti-Islamic colours in public. No "mainstream" politician would dare to do so. Certainly none of Matamoros's Tories.

Here is Gordon Brown dhimmifying himself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5NjnqKUTa8

And here is a good article (on the BBC's web site, no less) pointing out the nature of the UK establishment's anti-BNP smear campaign:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A21085427

"The fact that you've noticed that you're a minority in your city suggests to me that immigrants are coming too quickly to be assimilated." Posted by: PRCalDude

I think what it really means is that most of our immigrants are coming from "non-white" countries.

Many (or most?) of our immigrants are well-educated people with a bit of money in the bank.

The vast number of Chinese, Vietnamese, Korean, Polish, Ukrainian, Yugoslavian, Serbian, Russian, Hungarian, etc. immigrants who have come here have assimilated quite well.

I am noticing more and more hijabs and niqabs wherever I go. This concerns me because of the aggressive, supremacist nature of Islam. If Islam truly was a religion of peace, I could care less how its followers dress. (As a woman, though, niqabs chill me to the bone.)

We need immigrants in Canada because the people who are already here have not had enough babies to repopulate the country sufficiently to support and defend it. We can't go back in time and change this, so our government is trying to redress this via immigration. Most of our immigrants are coming from countries that do not have the advantages that Canada enjoys.

We have these admirable, advanced societies and progressive, advanced thinking which has caused our governments to open the gates to all and sundry, without requiring much (or anything) from those who enter. Now we find that the "barbarians" are strolling through in vast numbers and importing their own backwards, war-like culture into our neighbourhoods. Not only are they not assimilating, but they are demanding that we submit to their transplanted culture and religion.

Any way you slice it, it's not good.

Now we find that the "barbarians" are strolling through in vast numbers and importing their own backwards, war-like culture into our neighbourhoods. Not only are they not assimilating, but they are demanding that we submit to their transplanted culture and religion.

Any way you slice it, it's not good.

Posted by: Fred

Almost certainly as a result of the one member who knew about him, an Indian Christian as it happens, we were infiltrated by “Searchlight” the anti-fascist organisation which is funded by the trade unions and the government controlled National Lottery.

Thanx for bringing up “Searchlight”

Most of us know about the trial of Nick Griffen

How many know about this
Gerry Gable is the official publisher of Searchlight Magazine. While pretending to be an “objective journalist watchdog” Gable is in fact, a hard-line Communist.

Much publicity has been given to a TV show, The Secret Agent which resulted in the dramatic trials – and acquittals -- of BNP leader Nick Griffin and party colleague Mark Collett on “race hate" charges in 2006.

Less publicity was given to the fact that the whole programme was a set up by Searchlight, with that magazine acknowledging that Searchlight writer Nick Lowles was a “consultant” to the programme, and in fact, that it was Searchlight which instigated the situations which were allegedly the “most shocking.”

As Lowles himself wrote in the pages of Searchlight: “The Secret Agent was a six-month investigation into Britain’s main fascist party. BBC journalist Jason Gwynne joined Bradford BNP during the recent local and European election campaign. There he operated alongside local BNP organiser Andy Sykes, who unbeknown to the BNP, was secretly working for Searchlight and Bradford TUC. … Searchlight and Bradford TUC approached the BBC last summer with the programme idea.”

Searchlight planted two moles Andy Sykes and Jason Gwynne with the BNP, and they then created situations where they and their Searchlight masters could try and portray the BNP in the worst possible light. The media, obedient as ever to Gable's tricks, refused to point out that the whole thing was artificially created and set up by Searchlight.

Gwynne himself reported afterwards that he came close to exposure several times during the operation and relied on Sykes to help him remain undiscovered. "But if any suspicions were raised they went through Andy, as a senior figure, and he would tell them he was keeping an eye on me and he would tip us off so we knew to be more careful about the kind of questions I was asking."

In this way, Searchlight was able, in its usual fashion, to manipulate and create the situations which they then exploited. Sykes, as a party organiser, knew exactly to which individuals he could introduce Gwynne, safe in the knowledge they would say something outrageous which could be used on TV.

Quite apart from deliberately setting things up in this way, the Searchlight operation also deliberately ignored the vast majority of BNP members who are nothing like those supposedly shown in the TV show, with Sykes – no doubt under the experienced guidance of Gable, an old hand at these tactics – seeking out the most vulnerable individuals to say something “racist.”

As it later transpired, even some of the people making the “outrageous comments” in The Secret Agent, were also working for Searchlight – making it one of the most fraudulent, pre-arranged, smear campaigns ever seen.

Searchlight’s Hard Core Communist Backers

More than 15 years have passed since the Berlin Wall fell and Communism collapsed, discredited, exhausted and obviously bankrupt. Given the record, it is incredible that any media source takes seriously anything a Communist says, yet they are always keen to quote Searchlight!

Apart from Gerry Gable’s own explicitly Communist record, almost every single other activist within the Searchlight stable has an equally extremist leftist origin:

DAVID EDGAR, who is a Searchlight Publishing Ltd. Shareholder, also served on the editorial board of Marxism Today, Britain’s largest Communist magazine for many years.

GRAEME ATKINSON, Searchlight's European correspondent and criminal. Like his mentor Gable, Atkinson worked for the Communist Party's Morning Star newspaper as its district reporter in Yorkshire and the North East.

When in Sweden he manhandled a young thalidomide victim, Ulf Ranshede, so badly that the Swedish police wanted him for questioning and placed him on official report.

He was convicted and fined together with Searchlight activist Michael Avril Loft of distributing an illegal leaflet during the October 1974 General Election.

The April 1994 issue of Searchlight had, on its back page, an advert for the “Anti Nazi League”, listing 'Anti Fascist fightback' (formerly entitled 'Anti-Fascist Action contact addresses'), under which are local 'anti-racist' addresses - mostly those of AFA. This was run for many issues (at least from Feb 93 until April 94).

An advert on the back of the April 1988 issue of Searchlight urged their readers to "Join Anti-Fascist Action" with AFA's address in London .
AFA are extremists led by Red Action and Direct Action. RA are violent Marxists unequivocal in their support of the IRA and its bombing of civilian targets. Indeed, two of their members have been jailed (in a much publicised case) for planting bombs for the IRA in Central London .

In 1983, a bomb exploded at Harrods in London, killing six, including three police officers, and wounding 75. The terrorists responsible were Jan Taylor and Patrick Hayes. Hayes was also the East London organiser of AFA! When the police swooped on his Hackney flat they found AK47 assault rifles, ammo and bomb making equipment.

These are the sort of people with who Gable and Searchlight associate themselves!

Now a little for us to think about,

This has not been mentioned here at JW/DW and could be very well related

Was AFA or one of its Danish red fascist offspring behind the attack on SIOD

About two autonomous looking types were in the front and two on each sides smashing the side windows shouting Get him out get him out! and started hitting Anders and the SIAD passenger in the other site with ironbars.

http://siad.wordpress.com/2007/10/25/update-on-the-copenhagen-demonstration-murder-attempt-on-sioesiad-denmark-leader-and-members/

If the Liberals/red fascists get their way then in the name of the 'relativism' that is at the heart of the Islamists will be treated as political equals in the political process.

Once the Islmaists with the help of the Liberalism/Red Fascsim have built a political and social base in the nation, then they use that base to destroy the nation, the state and democracy itself.

In Britain today the Liberals/Red Fascists actively work with the Islamists to do evil. They both work to destroy democracy through democracy.

The Liberals/Red Fascists are as insane as the Islamists.

This is why Liberals were called 'useful idiots' by Lenin and why the most outspoken supporters of Islamism are Liberals/Red Fascists.

Liberals/Red Fascists idiots like the solicitor Gareth Peirce, the lawyer for Mozzam Begg, Bisher Amin Khalil al-Rawi, a detainee at the Guantanamo Bay detainment camp and Abu Qatada (who has been called 'Europe's Al-Qaeda Ambassador') are the sort of Liberals/Red Fascists that work for the Islamists.

I bet the last people Gareth Peirce would represent would be members of the BNP - the hypocrital bitch is more than happy representing Al Qaeda leaders though and members of the IRA.

She is the sort of Liberals/Red Fascists that deserves to be in prison for her support and assistance of the terrorists that threaten our society, not feted by the liberal scum that are poisoning our country.

It is not just the Islamists that need imprisoning, it is also the Liberals/Red Fascists that assist the Islamists.

Both are the enemies of our people, society, democracy, nation and state.

The Liberals/Red Fascists that mumble abour democracy whilst arse licking the Islamists are the most dangerous inner enemy we have ever had to face.

Whilst the media and the Liberals/Red Fascists prance about talking a load of bollocks about the dangers of ' white racism' and 'neo-nazis' - the real racists and the real nazis are the closest allies of the Liberals/Red Fascists.

It was the Islamists who ran the death camps for the real nazis in World War 2, who murdered tens of thousands of Christians wearing the SS uniform and whose ex-members of the SS set up the Muslim Brotherhood that was the nucelus for Al Qaeda.

The Liberals/Red Fascists are the apologists for Fascism and the Islamists the real nazis.

As the Liberals/Red Fascists once supported the murderous Communist regime then now find themselves supporting the Islamist remnants of the Nazis.

The real danger are the Liberals/Red Fascists and Islamists not the BNP who until now the only party that has shown the balls to speak out against Islam

The only good thing about mentioning the BNP in a story on JW is that it brings all the maggots out of the apple - all the closet white supremacists, anti-Semites, racial obsessives, religious weirdos and all the other oddballs who have latched themselves on to the counter jihad cause.

Metamoros the PC baton that you pull out everytime the BNP are mentioned is just pathetic. So everyone who supports the BNP is a knuckle dragging, racial obsessive, anti-semite.

Well metamoron just to prove how inane your statement is. I am writing this post to you from Tel Aviv (I am 'white'english with no jewish ancestory, I have a wife from a muslim family and I am only nominally christian.)

The reason my support goes to the BNP is because they are the only people in Britain standing up and saying what needs to be said about the spread of Islam in the UK.

Time is fast running out, what other solutions do you have?

Posted by: Josephine November 4, 2007 6:05 PM

I am not a racist.

Posted by: Josephine November 5, 2007 12:23 PM

Now we find that the "barbarians" are strolling through in vast numbers and importing their own backwards, war-like culture into our neighbourhoods.

Any-one who criticizes is a racist (sarcasm, which you missed the first time round)

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2006/10/snafu.html

----------------------------------------------------
Posted by: Borg

Someone at LGF wrote that they would rather live next door to a moderate muslim than to Britney Spears.

They could just as easily written

I’d rather live next to a Muslim than stinking German.

But Fjordman sums it up nicely

BTW: I am now leaving the comments section here at LGF, at least for some time. I've tried to reason with people here, but its abundantly clear that neither Charles not many of his readers have any interest whatsoever of having an actual debate about these things, and certainly not about the real threats to freedom in Europe.

This raises a question I have asked before. Americans say that you will never become involved in Europe again. Fine. But another question is, if native Europeans actually start fighting back against Islamization for real, whose side would Americans be on? Would you be on ours, or would you back the poor, Muslims victims of white European racism and xenophobia? Judging from the aggressive hostility and anti-European bigotry which is noticeable in many posts regarding this topic, I fear the latter answer.

I've been posting at LGF for years. There is a strong anti-European undercurrent here. I have rarely said much when confronted with it because I know the anti-American bias in much of Europe is usually worse, and I had no intention of creating more intra-Western rifts. However, I'd like to say a couple of things. I have read several times here the suggestion by some readers that Europeans are weak because the world wars, and immigration to the USA, finished off all the dynamic ones. In other words: European culture is weak because Europeans have "weak genes." This argument would have been

unthinkable

against any other ethnic group on the planet and would have been denounced as racist immediately. It is considered acceptable for one, and only one reason, and that is because those being tarred with it are white Europeans.

In the parallel universe inhabited by some posters here, although not all, there are three kinds of Europeans: 1. Nazis, Fascists and racists. 2. Those who died in two world wars. 3. Those who have left for the United States. If we're not dead and don't lave for the USA yet decide to fight back against Islamization then we have to be Nazis.

LGFers base their world-view on the existence of a moderate Islam, which doesn't exist, and on the existence of a large and rabid network of neo-Nazis in Europe, which also doesn't exist. Neo-Nazi groups do exist, but they are generally quite marginal, for the very simple reason that people don't like them. I agree that they should be watched, but they are far down the list of enemies of freedom in Europe right now, behind Muslims, Leftists and the European Union. You're not behaving in a rational manner. The only theoretical reason why even a fraction of Europeans would embrace real extremists groups would be if they have their backs against the wall and everybody else has abandoned them. That's exactly what we're trying to avoid with this network. The only thing Charles will achieve with these posts is to delay the formation of anti-Islamization efforts in Europe and thus drive people further into the hands of the few extremist groups that do exist. I don't care whether that is the intention or not, that is the actual result.

As I have said before: The is no other continent on the planet today where the indigenous peoples are being systematically stripped of their heritage, displaced in their own cities and subject to violence and abuse with the active involvement of their own authorities, yet where this is considered a good thing. Yes, I think this reveals an anti-European and anti-white bias.

Why do American politicians across the board, including Republicans and senior members of the Bush administration, cooperate with La Raza, a group Charles himself calls a Hispanic supremacist group? Why is this considered OK, while native Europeans who simply don't want to become a minority in their own countries are demons?

"Americans say that you will never become involved in Europe again. Fine. But another question is, if native Europeans actually start fighting back against Islamization for real, whose side would Americans be on?"
-- from a posting above

Of course the United States is already "involved in Europe." There is NATO. It is the Americans, not the Europeans, who are fully meeting their solemn obligations to NATO, and more. And of course Americans will not abandon Europe no matter how maddening European governments, some of them, not all, behave. And America will never abandon Europe, no matter how badly certain Europeans, being manipulated by Muslims in their midst and by fellow-travellers of those Muslims, who have been good at exploiting, and further encouraging, such pre-existing mental pathologies as antisemitism and anti-Americanism. But it could be made a lot easier if Europeans recognized -- even, in some cases, in themselves, those existing mental pathologies and squeezed them out of acceptable society, and further, if they set to school to study Islam, without being afraid of what they might -- what they will -- find out. And they might begin to learn again the sympathies, and the understanding, they once had of the Arab Muslim war on Israel, a Lesser Jihad that is without end, and that any further concessions by Israel will lead only to a whetting, rather than a sating, of Muslim appetites, and not only in the Middle East.

shiva -- I put "barbarians" in quotes because I was referring to the saying, "The barbarians are at the gate", as well as the history of countries being raided by barbarians.

Is barbarian a race?

My dictionary says a barbarian is:

"A person belonging to a people or to a tribe thought to be uncivilized."

I think aspects of Islam are barbaric (uncivilized).

You're right: if you were being sarcastic the first time, I missed it, but I get it now.

"I do not support the BNP in any way, and it is unfortunate that they initiated this campaign."

Well I am inclined to agree, I have my misgivings too. But I am in a position to grant, or withhold, my vote. And I have to weigh up- what do they have to do to capture my vote, and what would put them off-limits in a General Election.

If I should vote for them, and they take any measure of power, they will need my continued support. And that means they, have to worry about me, and what I think. But what is more, all the other parties have to do the same.

If I don't vote for them, no-one in power needs to worry about what I think. I would have rendered myself powerless, supine again.

It is a gamble, but what do people do when they perceive they have nothing left to lose?

reasons not to support the BNP

1/Their pedigree through previous incarnations such as the BUF and National Front is a long and discreditable one. Mosley was interned as an enemy sympathiser for most of WWII and Lord Haw-Haw (William Joyce) had originally been a member of the party. Over seventy years of not being regarded as respectable by the overwhelming majority of their fellow countrymen does say something.

2/They have a record of attacking all coloured immigration to the UK ( in the crudest and most racist terms among themselves)as well as being anti-semitic from the outset and are seeking to make hay out of dislocation caused by the recent influx of East European migrant workers. Opposing Islamic ambitions for our country is just an extension of their all embracing xenophobia.

3/ Their leader, Nick Griffin, is on record as a holocaust denier and if he has since back-tracked it is probably either for reasons of expediency or because he is a bit unstable.

4/ Contrary to what some say, much of the coloured immigration into this country has had mixed, positive and, at times, excellent effects. Inter-marriage on the margins helps blur the sharpest demarcations between cultures. The aggressive sexist inter-marriage rules of Islam make even this a sinister activity in their case.
It s possible to overcome, in time, almost all social problems caused by immigration to the UK except in the case of Islam because of its totally flawed ethical system, implacable intransigence, determined separatism and urge to dominate or at least sabotage things, politically.
Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and all the other minorities in the UK have as much to fear from Islamisation (if not more) as the host community and gratuitously alienating them, or even driving them into alliance with the Muslims, by being associated with crypto-fascists who have attacked them ever since their arrival in this country. The habit of Muslims of deliberately targeting African or Afro-Caribbean men would gain greater impetus if the BNP was seen as a major force among anti-Islamists.

"It s possible to overcome, in time, almost all social problems caused by immigration to the UK except in the case of Islam because of its totally flawed ethical system, implacable intransigence, determined separatism and urge to dominate or at least sabotage things, politically."

I agree Wally.

But no other party is prepared to confront or control islam in any way. meanwhile, islam continues to rampage through our civil society, and our other minorities bear the greatest cost.

As an analogy, I don't like using strong herbicides on my garden. But if the weeds are running amok, and my beloved plants are being strangled anyway, I'll get the spray out.

wallyUK -- Thank you.

Well said Shiva and WallyUK (though I have come across some black people who would join the BNP against Islam!)

As for LGF, today I finally gave up, its been removed from my favourites, I won't visit again.

Even though I have my own concerns about the BNP which I detailed earlier I know a number of people in the BNP and they are not racists, because of them I give the BNP the benefit of the doubt, I do not smear all because of association or the past, I will keep my eyes open though and express my concerns, that is how you change things, not with all guns blazing total destruction like LGF.

As for LGF I keep wondering why he reated so strongly, perhaps he did not get an invite?

Josephine;
Who are the indigenous people of Britain?

Mostly Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man...

Seriously, going back over a thousand years it's the Welsh and the Cornish who moved West when Julius Caesar decided to visit, not to mention the Pictish and Scottish. After that it was Angles, Saxons, & French. But what makes them British goes far deeper than that and has nothing to do with the alien creed of muslim invaders who openly declare the overthrow of British law in favor of sharia law...

Personally, I don't see a snow flakes chance in hell of Nick Griffin ever being PM but the BNP voice is a vital cog in the battle against this insidious islamic agenda. The BNP is a direct result of the continuing appeasement of the gutless leadership steering Britain into the abyss, and all large fires are fought with fire...

So another multicultural Utopian airhead enters the fray and now I'll standby for my political incorrectness to be corrected...

Matamoros's catchphrase - "99.3% of people did not support the BNP in 2005" - is typical of the lies and half-truths disseminated as part of the state-sanctioned anti-BNP smear campaign, in which he is an avid participant.

It is misleading to state that 99.3% of people did not vote for the BNP, because most people did not have a BNP candidate to vote for.

The BNP contested 119 out of 646 parliamentary seats, which means that in 527 seats people could not possibly have voted for a BNP candidate even if they had wanted to.

Of the seats contested by the BNP in the 2005 General Election, the party obtained 4.19% of the vote, which is 4.19/0.7 = 6 times higher than Matamoros's lie. In particular, the BNP achieved a 5% or higher share of the vote in 34 constituencies.

See:

http://www.psr.keele.ac.uk/area/uk/ge05/partycand.htm

I guess that Matamoros could not have foreseen that a Maths graduate could also be a BNP supporter. But then, "maggots out of the apple" aren't noted for their intelligence. Right, Matamoros?

So, why did the BNP did not contest more seats?

Firstly, campaigning is expensive. Unlike Matamoros's Eton and Oxford educated elitist Tories, the BNP does not have rich businessmen backing it. Secondly, publicly declaring allegiance to the BNP can ruin your career and attract social opprobrium. Remember the so-called "BNP ballerina"? Several people have been dismissed from their jobs for daring to be BNP supporters. Is that right in a so-called democracy, Matamoros?

Now, where's that apple?

I watched the Nick Griffin - Islamization of Europe video.

He gets it.

He is saying the same things that are being said here.

He will try to stop the mega-mosque.

Posted by: watling

Now, where's that apple?

Thanx for the link at the other site

http://www.cjsonline.gov.uk/the_cjs/whats_new/news-3612.html

A Preliminary Analysis of the Ministry of Justice Document:

'Statistics on Race and the Criminal Justice System - 2006'

Tony Shell

Summary of Findings

A preliminary analysis of official crime data shows:

# Violence against the person is 5 times more prevalent in the
black community, than in the white community.

# Drugs offences are 16 times more prevalent in the black
community, and 3 times more prevalent in the Asian community, than in the white community.

# Robbery is over 9 times more prevalent in the black community, than in the white community.

# Committing homicide is 6 times more prevalent in the black community, and twice as prevalent in the Asian community, than it is in the white community.

# The homicidal killing of white people is 90 times more
prevalent in the black community, than the homicidal killing of black people in the white community.

# The homicidal killing of white people is 30 times more prevalent in the Asian community, than the homicidal killing of Asian people in the white community.

# The number of white victims of interracial homicide is approximately 40 times greater than expected, when compared to the number of such victims in the minority (the Black and Minority Ethnic (BME))community.

# The white community suffers more victims of interracial and racially motivated homicide than all of the minority (the Black and Minority Ethnic (BME))communities put together – despite the (the Black and Minority Ethnic (BBME)) communities being less than 10 per cent of the total population.

# The number of white victims of racially motivated homicide is approximately 50 times greater than expected, when compared to the number of such victims in the minority (the Black and Minority Ethnic (BME))community

Say hello to the New Nazism - it wears the uniform of the State , murders innocent people and gets away with it.(Jean Charles de Menezes)

As this excellent post on another blog states ;

Sir Ian Blair was found guilty, in July 2005, of racial discrimination against white Police Officers after his Force was found to have racially discriminated against three white Officers who were disciplined after falsely being alleged to have made racist remarks at a training day. The Employment Tribunal said Sir Ian Blair, barely five months into his post, had “hung his own Officers out to dry” and was also found guilty of “prejudicing internal disciplinary proceedings against the three CID Officers and of treating them unfavourably”.

Sir Ian Blair, who at the time of the allegations was Scotland Yard's Deputy Commissioner in charge of Diversity, was said to have trusted the word of an female Asian Officer, Detective Sergeant Shabnam Chaudhri, over that of the three white Officers, who were later absolutely and unconditionally cleared of any wrongdoing whatsoever by the force's most senior Asian Officer, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur.

Asian Detective Sergeant Shabnam Chaudhri made the complaint after Detective Constable Tom Hassell, 60, referred to Muslim headwear as "tea cosies" and mispronounced 'Shi'ites' during a presentation on Islam in 1999.

Although he apologised immediately for the mispronunciation, DS Chaudhri complained he had been racist and his superiors failed to intervene.

Detective Constable Tom Hassell, 60, Acting Detective Inspector Paul Whatmore, 39, and Detective Sgt Colin Lockwood, 55, won their claim for racial discrimination against the Metropolitan Police. The Tribunal Panel, sitting in Stratford, East London, ruled in favour of all three Officers, saying they had been treated differently and prejudicially because of their white race. The hearing was told that Sir Ian's attempted intervention was made without his having investigated the case or even seeing the evidence used by the Police Investigations Board.

Tribunal Panel Chairman Ian Pritchard-Witts said: "We take the view that what this Deputy Commissioner (Sir Ian Blair) wanted was an example. We take the view, using his own words that white Officers were to be hung out to dry. He prejudiced the matter; why else ask for a judicial review of his own Officers' decisions. It points unerringly to unfavourable treatment."

Sir Ian has said that the finding of the Tribunal Panel that the Metropolitan Police was institutionally racist against indigenous white Officers was hurtful to the force, despite this clearly and demonstrably being the case. Rank and file Officers believe that he has betrayed their fellow Officers and now regard the Metropolitan Police as an anti-white racist Police Force operating to a New Labour political agenda.

Sir Ian described the remarks at the heart of the Employment Tribunal defeat as Islamophobic, stating: "That language was gratuitous, offensive and deliberate. Officers can expect to be disciplined for using language like that. I want this Force to have no place for racism". The fact that the Tribunal Panel found that the words claimed by Sir Ian Blair to have been used were not in fact used seems entirely to have escaped Sir Ian Blair.

Regrettably the Officers targeted by Sir Ian Blair did not sue him for libel and abuse of authority within the Police, as not only was the language they actually did use proved not to be racist, as defined in common law, but it is also a fact that Islam is a religion not a race, and therefore Sir Ian merely further damaged the reputations of the Officers themselves. The fact that Sir Ian Blair can still call those Officers “racist”, even after having been found guilty of racism himself by the Tribunal Panel, shows the arrogance, malice and utter incompetence of the man.

In an interview with The Guardian, Sir Ian Blair revealed that he intended to continue to racially cleanse the Police Force of white Officers for political reasons and make to make the Force less white, less male and more in line with the politics of the New Labour Party. Sir Ian Blair said the Metropolitan Police and British policing in general had no choice but to embrace diversity, because it somehow “delivered better protection to the public”, adding that: "Issues about understanding diversity, about respect for different communities, respect for different traditions in many occupations is broadly a moral case. For the Police Service and Metropolitan Police in particular, it is a fundamental, brutal business case. You can't police London without understanding the diverse communities we serve. How can you police the Chinese community, the Tamil community, emerging East European communities, North African communities, how can you do this without understanding and showing respect to the cultures of which this city is made up?”

The fact is that to Sir Ian Blair, racism also includes adopting proactive racist policies against whites, but such anti-white racism does not make up for historical racism against ethnic minorities and merely increases distrust of the Police themselves. The adoption of racist, sexist policies that seek to ethnically cleanse the Police Force of white, male Officers would be regarded as illegal and repugnant if the Officers to be expelled on the basis of their race were black or female. Therefore the adoption of racist policies against white Officers is a declaration that the Police no longer regard whites in the capital, and within the Force itself, as citizens with equal civil rights compared to ethnic minority Londoners. Therefore the Metropolitan Police is now a racist Police Force whose policing priorities are defined by how successful those racist policies are when measured against the ethnic cleansing of white Officers from the Police Force.

The paternalistic anti-white racist notion that the various communities in London are obsessed about how anti-racist the Metropolitan Police actually is demeans those who, from all ethnic groups within London, just want the Police simply to cut crime. The fact that Sir Ian has adopted the Neo-Marxist ideology and rhetoric of 'Identity Politics' shows that he has politicised the Police Force itself. If a senior white Police Officer had been found guilty of racially discriminating against black Officers and “hanging them out to dry”, then he would have been made to resign from the Police Force within 24 hours. The fact the journalistic placemen in the media lined up to defend Sir Ian Blair shows how corrupt the media itself has become, as it seeks to defend those such as him from being cast out of the power structures they have been put into to subvert from within.

http://leejohnbarnes.blogspot.com/2007/11/ian-blair-racist-bigot-must-be-sacked.html

wallyUK:

When you said: "Their [the BNP's] pedigree through previous incarnations such as the BUF and National Front is a long and discreditable one" you forgot to mention Genghis Khan, Vlad the Impaler and Ivan the Terrible.

I have been led to believe that Nick Griffin is a distant relative of Pol Pot, and - get this! - actually learned about Adolf Hitler at school!

Even worse, someone in the pub last night told me that Harold Shipman's second cousin's wife's nephew's half-brother once considered voting for the BNP.

Case proven. Well done, wallyUK.

By the way, which textbook on psycho-babble did you lift "Inter-marriage on the margins helps blur the sharpest demarcations between cultures" from? Or is it on the LibDem web site?

I agreed with Monty's agreement with part of point 4/ of WallyUK's post.

The battle would really be raging if there was true FREE SPEECH.

Here's another political forced to resign after speaking his mind. Horrors!!! He actually had the nerve to say what he thinks!!! Can't have that now can we?

With over 100 comments of support at the end of the article.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article2804407.ece

Opponent of 'mega-mosque' receives chilling death threat on YouTube

A leading opponent of plans to build Europe's largest mosque in east London has seen a chilling "obituary" for him posted on the internet.

The film on video-sharing website YouTube is entitled In memory of Councillor Alan Craig and contains pictures of him with his wife and two young daughters.

It was apparently posted in retaliation for his opposition to the mosque.

Mr Craig has now contacted police in fear of his family's safety and demanded that the video be taken down.

Islamic group Tablighi Jamaat wants to open the 12,000-capacity "mega-mosque" in Newham near the main 2012 Olympic site.

The FBI has described the group as "a recruiting ground" for al Qaeda, which it denies.

Shoebomber Richard Reid and 7/7 bombers Mohammad Sidique Khan and Shehzad Tanweer were members.

The businessman today said he would be seeking advice about whether his 40-year-old wife, Sally, and daughters were safe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=491977&in_page_id=1770

Disgusting.

Watling,
Given the reputation of BNP rank and file for low educational attainment I'd have thought that the pretending to be a fool who can't tell the literal use of a word from its figurative use, by one of their sympathisers, would be a risky business. At least I think you were pretending to be a fool.

I didn't get the bit about intermarriage out of any textbook of psycho-babble. Unless you are some sort of racial purity nut it should be obvious that it has the effect of increasing social cohesion and breaking down barriers between groups. Any religion that says men can marry the women of their religions but their women cannot marry men of other religions is an ugly and probably illegal perverting of such a process.

middle of last sentence should have read '..can marry the women of other religions but.."
sorry

wallyUK:

Please humour my knuckle-dragging foolishness and explain what you mean about "pretending to be a fool who can't tell the literal use of a word from its figurative use". Which word, exactly?

You referred to the "reputation of BNP rank and file for low educational attainment". Please pardon my foolishness, but where are your statistics on this subject? Don't make sweeping statements you can't prove. The only reason that the "BNP rank and file" allegedly have such a reputation is because bigoted, unproven statements such as yours often go unchallenged.

Regarding point 1, it was quite ridiculous of you to make references to Mosley and Joyce. More smear tactics. Joyce was a turncoat. He pledged allegiance to Germany. The BNP is a British organisation (the clue is in the name). Are you implying that all BNP members are likely to emulate him and renounce their British citizenship in order to live in an enemy state? Laughable.

Regarding Mosley, which enemy of Britain exactly do you anticipate that BNP members will be sympathising with? Al-Qaeda, perhaps?

You really should be on stage, my friend. You'd go down a storm at UAF meetings.

As far as I know, there are no links between the National Front and the BNP. They are distinct organisations. I dislike the NF - particularly because of their fascistic forced repatriation policy, which is completely inhumane and fundamentally wrong. I'm sure we can agree on that.

Regarding point 2, you say that: "They [the BNP] have a record of attacking all coloured immigration to the UK ( in the crudest and most racist terms among themselves)". How, precisely, do you know what terms they use among themselves? Again, more smear tactics. I note your loaded language ("attacking"). Please provide evidence for this statement.

But also bear in mind the UNITED NATIONS DECLARATION ON THE RIGHTS OF INDIGENOUS PEOPLES (http://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/en/declaration.html), which:

... emphasizes the rights of indigenous peoples to maintain and strengthen their own institutions, cultures and traditions and to pursue their development in keeping with their own needs and aspirations

It goes on:

Indigenous peoples and individuals are free and equal to all other peoples and individuals and have the right to be free from any kind of discrimination, in the exercise of their rights, in particular that based on their indigenous origin or identity.

Indigenous peoples have the right to self-determination. By that right they can freely determine their political status and pursue their economic, social and cultural development. They have the right to maintain and strengthen their distinct political, legal, economic, social and cultural institutions, while retaining their rights to participate fully, if they choose to, in the political, economic, social and cultural life of the state.

I don't know about you, but the above sounds like a full endorsement of the BNP's stance on immigration.

Note that: Indigenous peoples have the right to self-determination and They have the right to maintain and strengthen their distinct political, legal, economic, social and cultural institutions

You say that the BNP "are seeking to make hay out of dislocation caused by the recent influx of East European migrant workers." Surely you mean: "daring to point out the absurdity of importing workers from abroad, and therefore having to deal with the various social and economic problems that causes, whilst we maintain several million able-bodied, UK-born people on benefits."

Regarding point 3, you say that: "Their leader, Nick Griffin, is on record as a holocaust denier". More smear tactics. He ill-advisedly questioned the scale of the Holocaust. That was stupid, but what he said was not outright denial. In theory, in a liberal society we should be able to question established versions of history in the light of compelling evidence, but I would regard the Holocaust as an exception and leave it well alone. We know it happened because people alive today lived through it, and they still bear the emotional and physical scars.

Much of your point 4 is subjective. You are right when you say "Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists and all the other minorities in the UK have as much to fear from Islamisation (if not more) as the host community". As has been mentioned many times on JW, the BNP has Jewish members and Sikh sympathisers. I don't know about Hindus and Buddhists.

There are many organisations in the UK which cater for non-indigenous people, yet just about the only organisation restricted to indigenous membership comes in for all the criticism - despite the above declaration from the UN. Have you ever complained about:

- the National Black Police Association
- the Metropolitan Black Police Association
- the Black Londoners Forum
- the Black Information Link
- Doncaster Chinese
- clickwalla (Asians only)
- the United Nigeria Welfare Association
- Watford Asian Community Care (care for Asians only)

to name but a few? Some or all of the above claim to be non-political, but if they'd got opinions and can influence policy then they're political.

I do sincerely apologise for my foolishness. Now I must find some sticking plaster for my knuckles. It's such a drag being so far down the evolutionary scale.

How about a little white on white racism

Sir Ian Blair was found guilty, in July 2005, of racial discrimination against white Police Officers after his Force was found to have racially discriminated against three white Officers who were disciplined after falsely being alleged to have made racist remarks at a training day. The Employment Tribunal said Sir Ian Blair, barely five months into his post, had “hung his own Officers out to dry” and was also found guilty of “prejudicing internal disciplinary proceedings against the three CID Officers and of treating them unfavourably”.

Sir Ian Blair, who at the time of the allegations was Scotland Yard's Deputy Commissioner in charge of Diversity, was said to have trusted the word of an female Asian Officer, Detective Sergeant Shabnam Chaudhri, over that of the three white Officers, who were later absolutely and unconditionally cleared of any wrongdoing whatsoever by the force's most senior Asian Officer, Deputy Assistant Commissioner Tarique Ghaffur.

Detective Constable Tom Hassell, 60, Acting Detective Inspector Paul Whatmore, 39, and Detective Sgt Colin Lockwood, 55, won their claim for racial discrimination against the Metropolitan Police. The Tribunal Panel, sitting in Stratford, East London, ruled in favour of all three Officers, saying they had been treated differently and prejudicially because of their white race. The hearing was told that Sir Ian's attempted intervention was made without his having investigated the case or even seeing the evidence used by the Police Investigations Board.

http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/11/tea-cozied-shits-aint-racism.html

watling-

Your point about exclusionary organizations being allowed for all races but the white race is true.

In the U.S. government, which boasts equality for all and works extremely hard to be race blind, allows the Congressional Black Caucus, an organization of exclusively black members, to be on Capitol Hill. A truly political organization that ONLY works for black people and black issues. Also BET, (Black Entertainment Television) which has to be lisenced by the government which would NEVER approve a white television channel, (after all it used to be white right?), not that they would want one. And the Black Panthers, an organization calling for the overthrow of the government, another political organization. There are thousands of other race based organizations in all western countries which have a right to exist and no one cares as long as they are not white. They have a right to organize as they wish. If any white group tried to organize they would be smeared by every media organization in existance and called white supremists. And infiltrated by agents.

This should not become a race issue but fairness should be across the board for all races if a multicultural society is to work for all and not cause tensions and resentment.

Muslims are not a race so they can organize as they wish. They use that in their favor. But then call everyone racists if they don't approve of islam.

Borg

But then call everyone racists if they don't approve of islam.

And we do not have to look much further than Aaudia to see pure racism and slavery

oops Typo "Saudi"

watling,
You decision to understand terms 'pedigree and incarnation' to mean literally a long line of descent into the distant past, with a few offshoots to the family tree thrown in for good measure was no doubt some obscure attempt at humour or exaggeration for the purposes of ridicule. Personally, I thought it was such a thin conceit that it made you look dangerously close to appearing an idiot and a bit of a snarling one, at that.
In the context it was clear that it meant there was a direct continuity in attitudes and, between party name changes, in personnel from the BUF, through the League of Empire Loyalists, then the National Front to the BNP ( which was the product of a split in the NF. Whether or not some negligible rump NF survives, seems have to have been of little interest to anybody outside the far right) Apparently the BUF absorbed earlier groups, like the British Fascisti, but 1932 is going back quite far enough, as far as anyone interested in the trail of slime leading to the current BNP is concerned.
Fascists collaborators were found in all the western liberal democracies overrun by the Germans and there s little doubt that Mosley would have fitted the bill in this country. Allegiance to racism and authoritarianism proved stronger than an enlightened patriotism on the far right then, and would no doubt do so again.
Only six years separated Weimar from WWII - who knows what situations might be thrown up by, say, a serious slump in the world economy. Somehow people don’t expect the ultra-right to come out in favour of democracy and individual freedom when it comes to the crunch.
My belief in the low educational attainment of BNP councillors is mainly based on comic reports in Private Eye on the ineptitude of their councillors and their various petty criminal convictions while in office. There is also the story of a journalist infiltrating the BNP with a view to outing the racism of any professional or public figures he came across but could find no-one among the rank and file with a status higher than that of road sweeper.
When I lived in the East End I would sometimes waste a Sunday morning watching the occasional ant-Nazi League demonstration on Brick Lane from across the road, more out of curiosity than anything. I soon discovered that my hobby was shared by various NF types, clearly known to the police, who went out of their way to be rude to them, but of whose presence the SWP a few yards away were blissfully unaware. Their delight in the use of pejorative racial epithets when conversing among themselves was apparent to anyone who cared to eves-drop.
Given the clear fixation that British Muslims have on increasing their numbers, I thought that a sudden influx of a million East European Catholics must have had them gnashing their teeth. Pressure on housing and services is a problem that is comparatively easy to deal with if the alternative is creeping Muslim demographic conquest.
As for the indigenous community not being able to identify itself and organise separately: they constitute the majority in virtually every national political or professional body: if they can be persuaded to act in concert they can steam-roller the power and influence of any special minority interest group. If the dire necessity arose they could over-rule any or all safeguards or protective treatment that minorities might enjoy.
The problem is to convince the majority of the population and put pressure on their representatives that action strong needs to be taken against a violent and aggressive ideology organising and growing in their midst under the guise of a religion. Should, for instance, a Jew decided that supporting the BNP was the best way to do this, I think he or she would find their letters to the Jewish Chronicle putting forward the argument would not get much of a hearing.

wallyUK:

You have invented a connection between the BUF and the BNP because it suits your prejudices.

I guess we all do this sort of thing to some extent. For example, when I read that several members of New Labour used to be Communist Party members, that entirely fitted in with what I expected; although in this case it is perfectly true, of course. e.g. John Reid.

I'm sure that when you read Matamoros's catchphrase - "99.3% of people did not support the BNP in 2005" - that meshed perfectly with your perception of the BNP as a hopeless fringe group and so you would naturally not wish to query the figure. Of course, the figure is misleading because the BNP only stood in 18% of seats.

You said that: "My belief in the low educational attainment of BNP councillors is mainly based on comic reports in Private Eye on the ineptitude of their councillors and their various petty criminal convictions while in office".

Do you have any examples? Do you think that ineptitude and criminality are exclusive to councillors of one political persuasion? Have you not noticed the media's relentless anti-BNP smear campaign? Private Eye would want to play its part too.

There are plenty of examples here of Lib-Lab-Con criminality:

http://liarsbuggersandthieves.blogspot.com/

You also said that: "There is also the story of a journalist infiltrating the BNP with a view to outing the racism of any professional or public figures he came across but could find no-one among the rank and file with a status higher than that of road sweeper."

I assume you're referring to the Guardian journalist, Ian Cobain? If I'm wrong, please enlighten me otherwise. Anyway, assuming I'm right then what would you expect a leftist reporter from an anti-British newspaper to allegedly find when investigating an organisation which he, his editor and his readership were desperate to smear? Come on, now.

The article he wrote is dripping with loaded language. Of course it was meat and drink to the newpaper's Marxist readership. How they must have giggled at dinner parties in Islington when they talked about it. Their trusty rag fed them precisely what they had been salivating for.

However, to his credit, in the article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,1976613,00.html) Cobain wrote:

In my seven months as a party member I heard very few racist epithets, and no anti-Semitic comments.

How do you reconcile that with your "crudest and most racist terms among themselves" allegation? Quite simply, your prejudiced opinion of BNP members leads you to make assumptions about their behaviour which have no basis in fact.

You must have read on this thread about the Searchlight Marxists - Andy Sykes and Jason Gwynne - infiltrating the BNP. When they couldn't find any dirt they created some. Maybe that's why the BNP needs road sweepers?

And what do you have against road sweepers? They do an essential job. Do you look down on people in manual jobs?

Yet again you have tried to tar the BNP and the NF with the same brush. The NF are an unelectable bunch of fascist no-hopers. Can we agree on that?

I have absolutely no doubt of the veracity of your statement that NF supporters used "pejorative racial epithets when conversing among themselves". Of course they did and still do. They're racist bigots. Go to their web site (www.natfront.com) and on the home page click the link "The FAQ's". You will discover that, in answer to question 87:

No, the BNP is a totally separate organisation with its own policies/agenda

Are you getting the message yet?

You went on to say: "if they [the majority] can be persuaded to act in concert they can steam-roller the power and influence of any special minority interest group. If the dire necessity arose they could over-rule any or all safeguards or protective treatment that minorities might enjoy."

Yes, that's possible but at the moment in the UK we have institutional "positive discrimination". No, I can't prove it but where I work for example there is an unofficial drive to recruit ethnic minority staff. As a result the recent recruits have been almost exclusively from ethnic minorites. I work in the private sector, yet the problem is worse in the public sector - where I've also worked. We've all read stories about the police favouring non-white recruits, for example. See:

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2006/09/22/37337/rejected-white-police-applicant-wins-damages-in-race-discrimination.html

Whilst the political wind blows from the Left, there is absolutely no way that Islam will be restrained here.

I forgot to mention that Ian Cobain's article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,1976613,00.html) refers to the BNP member list including:

... dozens of company directors, computing entrepreneurs, bankers and estate agents, and a handful of teachers. One member is a former Miss England, another is the American chief executive of a City investment corporation, while one is a servant of the Queen, living at Buckingham Palace.

That rather puts paid to the "road sweepers" jibe, does it not? Maybe they're all full-time road sweepers but do the jobs referred to above as hobbies?

watling:

“I'm sure that when you read Matamoros's catchphrase - "99.3% of people did not support the BNP in 2005" - that meshed perfectly with your perception of the BNP as a hopeless fringe group and so you would naturally not wish to query the figure. Of course, the figure is misleading because the BNP only stood in 18% of seats.”

Far from being “a lie” the fact that the BNP gained just 0.7% of the national vote in 2005 is a statistic borne out by your table. However, as you prefer to highlight the average 4.19% gained in the seats that it contested then let’s look at that figure instead.

The BNP stood in 119 seats, all targeted as those offering the greatest chance of electoral success. Across all of these carefully selected seats, pinpointed because immigration was seen as the key issue in those constituencies, the BNP - the only party then promoting an anti-immigration agenda - could attract on average just 4 out of every 100 people who voted. The failure rate in all of these seats was 100% - not a single MP elected. Of those 119 failed candidates, 85 suffered the double humiliation of losing their deposits for failing to gain a minimum 5% share of the vote.

Any serious political party that suffered this level of defeat would enter into a prolonged period of careful analysis to evaluate precisely what they were doing wrong. The BNP, on the other hand, consoles itself with paranoid theories of secret plots and vast organised conspiracies against it. Having taking its message to the polls, and seen it totally rejected, the party prefers to blame the voters rather than face the stark reality.

"Yet again you have tried to tar the BNP and the NF with the same brush."

Again we drift into the comical realms of the Judean People’s Front / People’s Front of Judea argument. The BNP leadership - many of whom, including Nick Griffin, were active in the NF - has gone on a PR offensive. They’ve grown their hair, put on suits, and told members to be on their best behaviour in public. But no matter how hard they try, the poor wretches just can’t help it.

In 2005 BNP members, including its Deputy Chairman Scott McLean, were filmed performing Nazi salutes while attending a cross-burning ceremony and the footage appeared in a British TV documentary, Nazi Hate Rock, depicting the neo-Nazi music scene (see link below)

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=131752006

The BNP’s deputy leader. Nazi salutes. At a cross-burning. How do you explain this one away, watling? Let me guess - it was taken totally out of context. He was in fact waving to someone while bravely fighting a fire in a cemetery?

As you point out, there are two “nationalist” parties in Britain. One is an “unelectable bunch of fascist no-hopers.” And the other is the National Front.

Matamoros - welcome back! I missed you.

I was beginning to worry that you'd got lost within the portals of some labyrinthine Tory web site. Just don't let them find out you didn't go to Eton.

Now, let me guess: you've been lobbying Mr. Cameron and he has pledged to:

- block the construction of the mega-mosque

- stop all Muslim immigration

- stop all other immigration, except to fill posts for which we can neither find nor feasibly train a British person, or for exceptional humanitarian reasons

- withdraw from the EU

- dismantle the self-serving race relations industry

- ensure that convicted prisoners serve their full terms

- build more prisons

- put Sarah's Law on the statute book

- close down mosques where hate is preached

- deport all foreign criminals and bogus asylum seekers

- re-introduce apprenticeships

- withdraw funding for Mickey Mouse degree courses

- adopt a zero tolerance approach to corruption in public life

Yes? Then colour me blue!

Regarding the Scotsman story, isn't it amazing what a bunch of excitable people at night in the middle of nowhere - who think they're in private and have been both plied with drink and egged on by a smear-happy mole looking for a cheap scoop and a wodge of cash - will do. And it wasn't a cross.

For all the latest Lib-Lab-Con criminal activity, point your browsers at:

http://liarsbuggersandthieves.blogspot.com

And for an independent assessment of the state's persecution a legal political party see:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/actionnetwork/A21085427

Watling:

"Regarding the Scotsman story, isn't it amazing what a bunch of excitable people at night in the middle of nowhere - who think they're in private and have been both plied with drink and egged on by a smear-happy mole looking for a cheap scoop and a wodge of cash - will do. And it wasn't a cross."

So, this was yet another conspiracy. Gosh, so many shadowy plots, so many things taken “out of context” from people “caught off guard.” Funny, isn’t that just what Inayat Bunglawala claims when yet another example of Islamic hate preaching is exposed?

I did like the “who think they're in private” part though. Shows what “the boys” like to get up to when they think no-one‘s watching.

OK, so this disgusting episode was something that again was taken out of context and the “new” BNP, least of all its spotless leader, has no association with neo-Nazism? Can you explain this from Nick Griffin‘s blog on his recent trip to the USA (where he gave his now infamous address at Michigan State):

"Our host and the organiser of the whole tour, Preston Wigington, is there to pick us up for the two hour drive to Clemson, which is the first university at which I’m speaking."

Given the BNP’s non-association with neo-Nazis, the surely cannot be the same Preston Wiginton, ageing skinhead and Stormfront veteran, who addressed a rally of Russian neo-Nazis just last weekend?:

“As Preston Wiginton, a white supremacist from Texas, stepped forward to address thousands of Russian nationalists at a rally Sunday in Moscow, he lifted his black cowboy hat high in the air…”

“Glory to Russia," Wiginton, 43, said in broken Russian, as the crowd of mostly young Russian men raised their right hands in a Nazi salute and chanted "white power!" in English.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/11/04/europe/EU-GEN-Russia-Nationalist-Holiday.php

With the BNP’s loudly trumpeted support of Israel, it does seem odd that Griffin would choose to associate with a man who, under his username True American Patriot, posted this to a charming Stormfront thread titled “Should the U.S. Declare War on Israel?”:

"Just for the amount of Russian women that pass through Isreal in the sex slave trade should make Russia a good ally. (Over 10,000 "Natashas" in Tel Aviv alone.) I would rejoice the day when 8000 Mig-29 and Su-27 are fully armed flying south."

Let me guess… Nick Griffin had no knowledge of this man’s background when he agreed the trip?

PS: I was surprised on my dip into the Stormfront sewer to find so many British contributors, using the most appalling anti-Semitic and racially abusive language, with links on their posts to the BNP website and banners urging users to "Vote BNP".

More smears and conspiracies? Of course...

Accusing Griffin of having a record of holocaust denial has hardly a smear . Details of his holocaust denial, in what I would call the recent past (1996), can be found, along with cited sources at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin

I notice he was writing in a periodical called ‘The Rune’ in 1996 (editing that particular issue): people might be interested in a current post on the subject of runes at LGF:

http://babbazeesbrain.blogspot.com/2007/11/nazis-rune-everything.html

John Reid may have abandoned his Leninism comparatively late - in his mid 20’s - but putting forward ideas that come awfully close to sympathy for the Nazis in one’s late 30’s cannot be passed off as the folly of youthful immaturity. No doubt the fact that holocaust denial is a position that is impossible to defend in the face of the evidence had something to do his backtracking on that particular issue, but there are strong grounds for believing that it was for reasons of political expediency, rather than inclination, that he has since publicly rejected anti-Semitism.

Watling accuses me of inventing a connection between the BUF and the BNP. The first time I visited Bethnal Green in the late 60’s I was surprised to see a conspicuous wall graffiti, visible to passing travellers on the tube announcing ‘Mosley was right’. To me he was just someone you read about in history books. It was, of course, at around this time that the local ‘paki-bashing’ skinhead culture was enjoying something of a florescence. These traditions seem to hang around in areas - perhaps it runs in families or perhaps it was because the east end was always a first point of call for immigrants. Continuity can be seen just by glancing at the careers one or two luminaries of the loony right.

* A. K Chesterton edited the BUF periodical ‘the Blackshirt’ from 1933 to 1938, in 1954 he established the League of Empire Loyalists and in 1967 co-founded the National Front.

* John Tyndall was active in the League of Empire Loyalists up to 1957 but left because it was not anti-Semitic enough - apparently he co-founded the original BNP in 1960 before moving on to something called the National Socialist Movement. Eventually he merged the group he happened to be running in 1967 with the National Front : when he left this in 1980, having been its head, he wound up amalgamating his new group with others to form the BNP in 1982.

* Nick Griffin was secretary of his local branch of the National Front in 1978, aged 19, and became a member of its governing body in 1980. He left the NF in 1989 and after belonging to other fringe groups ended up associating with the BNP from 1993 and joining in 1995.

Dredging about in the past careers of ultra-right activists is not something I’m really inclined to do: but just these three examples show how a kind of apostolic succession can be traced right back to the thirties. I have no doubt numerous threads like this can be traced.

Fascinating discussion here. Many thanks to all as I don't have much of an idea about the ins and outs. To say the least. Ahem

The redoubtable Taki.

http://www.takimag.com/blogs/article/goodbye_whites_and_christmas/

Matamoros and wallyUK:

Ok, you've got my attention. What do you propose we should do about the creeping Islamification of the West, and of the UK in particular?

Do you think any of the mainstream parties can wake up from their politically correct paralysis and do what is right for a change, rather than pursuing their suicidal policies of appeasement and dhimmitude?

I just don't see it, I'm afraid.