So says Glenn Beck in his bestselling new book, An Inconvenient Book.
And wouldn't it be nice if it were so? But -- inconvenient as it may be -- saying "I have read the Koran and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Islam is a religion of peace" is like saying, "I have read the Qur'an but I read it with my eyes closed."
The Qur'an counsels warfare -- hot warfare, with casualties and prisoners -- against unbelievers in numerous passages, including 9:5, 9:29, 2:190-193, 8:60, 2:216-217, 8:65-67, 9:111, 60:8-9, and 47:4, and that's just off the top of my head. There are many other such passages as well. I am not talking for the moment about whether such fighting is defensive or offensive, or prescribed for all time or only for the believers of Muhammad's day, or justified or not for whatever reason. I am merely pointing out that the Qur'an -- regardless of (as the common objections will surely come) what the Bible or any other sacred text says or does not say -- at face value mandates warfare against unbelievers in numerous passages. Anyone who reads it attentively will see this.
Now, that fact alone does not establish that Islam is not a religion of peace. Some contend, or Glenn Beck may assume, that the traditions and laws of Islam mitigate the literal meaning of these texts. (Whether or not this is actually true is irrelevant to the present discussion, which is just about the Qur'an itself.) They may think that they are universally interpreted in a spiritualized manner, or that they are not regarded literally, or that modern Muslims do not see them as binding. But Glenn Beck did not, unfortunately, say or suggest any of those things. Rather, he said, "I have read the Koran and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Islam is a religion of peace," which is a statement about the Qur'an. It suggests that its contents are other than what they are.
Now, Beck continues by saying: "The overwhelming majority (I believe at least 90 percent) of all Muslims are good, peace-loving people." That may be so, but it does not follow from the contents of the Qur'an in any case. Religious traditions are large things, and while the contents of the Qur'an are what they are, that does not mean -- and I have never argued, although the careless, foolish and malevolent frequently assume that I do -- that every Muslim knows all of those contents, takes them to heart, and acts upon them, or ever will.
Beck's statement is a typical one, showing one of the ways in which this issue gets clouded. People see that there are peaceful Muslims and assume on the basis of their existence, and because of presuppositions they have about the nature of religious texts in general, that the jihadists must be twisting the peaceful message at the religion's core. Or they think that the only way we can support genuine Muslim moderates is by retailing polite fictions such as this one. This completely ignores, of course, the fact that jihadists around the world are making recruits today by appealing to peaceful Muslims as the exponents of "pure" and "true" Islam, and quoting the Qur'an and Sunnah copiously to buttress this claim.
Until the Glenn Becks of the world, and Muslims and non-Muslims of good will, understand that and begin to confront it rather than pretending it is not happening, that recruitment will continue.
Because Beck is so ill-informed, and speaks so loudly, so rapidly, so unthinkingly, and because he is so coarse and so snide in his every observation, and because he has no interest in, or ability to get at, the truth of the matter of Islam -- and yet possesses the reputation of being "right-wing" which means, which is taken to mean, "tough" on Islam (whatever that means), he does, every day, terrible damage and will, with his new $60 million dollar contract, continue to play the vulgar just-folks populist ranting about the treatment of the "little people" (if he doesn't use that awful phrase, he might as well) and continue to be a barrier to thought, to understanding.
He is interested, like a stand-up comic, in laugh-lines, or rather in indignation-lines, lines that will get, he hopes, a cheap laugh at home (just look at those "liberals," will you?)and appealing to exactly what his listeners already know or think they know. He's not a "conservative." He's nothing Burke or Churchill would recognize. He's nothing at all, but a showman. He has made no attempt, over the past six years, to intelligently educate himself, or others, on the nature of Islam. He has had six years to read the Qur'an over and over, with appropriate commentary that will provide guidance (not the commentary of Muslim apologists offering to explain its meaning to unwary Infidels, but the commentary of Muslims provided for Muslims, including an understanding of "naskh" or abrogration). He clearly has not done so. He doesn't even bother, in his fat would-be best-seller, the insect of an hour, designed purely to make him money, and for no other purpose, to touch on, to mention, the Sunnah -- that is, the Hadith and the Sira -- that are as important as the Qur'an. Why not? Is it because he, Glenn Beck, has no idea about what the Hadith are, and has not bothered to have one of his team of book-writing "assistants" find out, and bring a hundred of the most important ones, the ones dealing with attitudes toward Infidels, to his attention? Beck is one more of the ranters, the scoffers, the dismissers, sure of himself in his own stupidity which has been ratified, he fondly feels, by his fat contract. He has done nothing to advance, among his wide and adoring audience, which one hopes will become a little less adoring, the understanding of the nature and menace of Islam.
Beck enjoys his ranting, and apparently many of his listeners do too. The network is certainly pleased with him. He brings them in, and those listeners stay for the ads, which is what counts. But he's a dope playing to an audience for which he has contempt, and when it comes to Islam, he's worse than a dope. He's a dangerous dope.
Turn him off, and make sure he knows, and the network knows, that you have turned him off.
It is perturbing, as to how people can miss the very obvious.
Or is it that such people are the stake holders of lobbying firms ?
Even if it is lobbying in exchange for money, there are limits to defending the indefensible.
Such an intellectually defeatist mentality in India has already led to large scale islamisation and backwardness.
I dread to think that this syndrome is spreading to the intellectual hope of the world - the educated West.
Glenn Beck's focus is surely not Islam. Since he seems to be a generalist, and his view of Islam is oblique and an aside--obscuring, not illuminating, our judgments--then his point can be challenged for lack of substance, and dismissed.
What Qur'an did he read?
Whats disturbing is that he really is an intelligent guy, a devote Christian and has the 3rd most listened to radio show. If he beleives it to be true, so will his devote fans.
Sounds like Glenn Beck read the Quran as organized without any knowledge that it is NOT laid out in chronological order. Sounds like George Bush, Tony Blair, Ms. Rice, et. al.
I do agree with the other posts that Mr. Beck is in need of seeking the truth/facts if he has any formal education in his background where he should have be taught to do so.
I wish Robert or Hugh could get booked on his show and actually have a civil debate about Islam. Perhaps Glenn could come away a much wiser man.
I found Becks channel about a year ago, and watched him for the first time. I didn't stay tuned very long mainly for the reasons Hugh described above. I noticed that he doesn't even let his guests answer his own questions before he cuts them off. Basically he blabbers on his opinion and takes up most of his interview times with guests.
He says himself he's a rodeo clown, so when a self proclaimed rodeo clown starts throwing an uninformed opinion about a subject as threatening and deadly serious as Islam, where many conservative or nominal conservatives tune in, he is indeed a dangerous fool.
Is he even aware the koran is not chronological or did he just read it from chapter 1 through to 114?
Also, reading the koran stand alone makes little sense unless you know about mohammed to begin with. Otherwise, a lot of the references (mohammed's sex life, murder of the Qurayza Jews mentioned in passing in chapter 33)will have no meaning.
Hi Robert:
I have an idea, why don't you send to Glenn your newest book about Christianity vs. Islam, telling WHY the Christian faith is the "real ROP" in great detail. Thanks for taking the time to read my comments. Have a great rest of the Thanksgiving holiday weekend.
Beck has one saving grace, He will revisit issues and change his POV once he gains more complete understanding .
He did it on abortion and he will be forced to by muslims because the truth of Islam will continue to encroach like a bloody glacier and he will have to ask once again what force drives this genocide?
Oh course he does have that wife and kids to worry about , subtle threats have a way of getting through.
http://infidelnation.org/DOWNLOADS/Sirat.rar
Has he read Sirat Rasul Allah?
Wasn't it Cardinal Pell of Australia who had to give up reading the Q'u'ran after about 50 pages because he found it so violent?
Too bad that Beck wasn't around for the first crusade; with his exhalted knowledge of the koran, who knows how history would have turned out?
Actually, the Beck's of the world are more dangerous than suicide bombers. The latter kill only once, the former continues the lethal damage again and again.
The last time I watched him when he read an e-mail from a woman who complained he was not hard enough on islam. He told her on air "I've done my homework and I can tell you that islam is a religion of peace. If you don't like hearing that on my show, then don't watch it".
I haven't watched it since that day. I send him tons of e-mail about every newsarticle about when one of the "peaceful ones" commits a terror act, never was responded to once. I'm still doing it. I especially send stuff from www.theligionofpeace.com.
Somehow, I don't think he's every going to "get iit". He says although he works in N.Y. that no way was his family going to live there. What's the matter Glenn, you think more attacks from the peaceful ones will happen there again? You are just an ostrich with your head in the sand and the jihadis are laughing at you with your "religion of peace" crap.
j_not_a,
I never got a response either. I have no idea whats wrong with him. He is an intelligent guy.
...I am sending Glenn Beck a white flag along with a simple instruction sheet.....
Actually if Glenn Beck knew what the hell he was talking about, he would say Islam is a religion of submission which is what Islam means.
I also dont believe he even read the Qur'an for if he did, he couldnt have read the verses of the sword and come away unequivocally that Islam is a religion of peace.
When Beck says that "The overwhelming majority (I believe at least 90 percent) of all Muslims are good, peace-loving people," he's admitting that 10 percent of Muslims aren't peaceful. Now if my math is right, 10 percent of one billion is 100 million.
I would think that if 100 million Muslims feel compelled by their religious beliefs to act violently against non-Muslims, that some explanation is required.
Mr. Beck needs to be put in contact with one of these 100 million Muslims, who I'm sure can set him straight on the correct reading of Koranic verses.
It's amazing how Mr. Beck can conclude from his reading of the Koran that Islam is a peaceful religion, even in the face of 1300 years of historical evidence to the contrary, the current violence of Muslims around the world and in contradiction of learned Islamic theologians, past and present.
Either Glen Beck is willfully blind, or he did not read the Koran.
I intend to E-mail Mr. Beck and ask him to set up a debate on his show between a "moderate" Muslim, and a committed Jihadists to debate the Islamic doctrine of Jihad. I really don't think he'll have much of a problem finding a willing Jihadist, but seriously doubt he'll find a moderate Muslim willing to expose himself to certain humiliation and defeat.
rational,
Good luck with the e-mail. I have never received a response from him ever. But if you do, ask him to invite Robert as well. If Glenn really feels that strongly that Islam is a religion of peace he should have no problem debating Robert.
The disease of appeasement of Islam is spreading like California woild fires.
tom's reminder is approproate.. Tom Tancredo, before it is too late:
http://www.teamtancredo.typepad.com
Send him a e-mail me@glennbeck.com and tell him you will NOT be buying his book, and until he reads the hadiths and sura, then come back and tell us how islam is a "religion of peace".
Is it just me or did we hear anything about "religion of peace" until after 9/11 by George Bush and then all kinds of people started parroting that misleading line of crap?
Just say no to Mo.
Did Beck even write the booklet alone read it;of course not? It is almost inconceivable that he could be that ignorant.
Of course he did not read the Quran. had he even bothered to skim through it,he could of come up with a different opinion. Sounds as if he read some pamphlet that a Muslim gave him that explains a few surahs in the Quran that appear peaceful. That is exactly what Muslim clerics gave out to county, and city officials in Los Angeles a few weeks after 9-11 and then city officials (I was There) had a big media gathering along with several Muslims with some speakers saying as they held this tiny pamphlet in their hand "see here it is for all to see that points to Islam being a religion of peace"! I still have a copy of that tiny 12 page pamphlet that would barely touch 2 pages of the Quran and when I look through it,it quite frankly disgusts me on what a sham these Muslim leaders tried to pull on these civi leaders.
Somehow everybody has to try and nail Glenn Beck on this false analogy for he has too great a bully pulpit to let this pass. Bringing this to the attention of every possible website would be good start--Like Michelle Malkin Etc..
"Send him a e-mail me@glennbeck.com and tell him you will NOT be buying his book, and until he reads the hadiths and sura"
Why bother? If he wasnt convinced by the verses of the sword, why would the hadiths and suras change his mind?
As if we needed Glen Beck to inform us of the lost cause. No doubt Beck just received a pay rise. Prepare for the worst, folks...
Beck as against subtlety and understanding are at odds with each other.
He is reading what he wants to believe.
Foolishness can infect even the best of us (e.g. the'tarbaby' syndrome, the BDS syndrome, the myriad 'conspiracy' syndromes).
Let's hope he and others come to their senses soon. Because we need all the good fighters we can get.
Mackie,
Im thinking of a jihasawareness project aimed for talk radio/bloggers like Traeh did for our Senators.
Just hearing that the 3rd most listened to talk radio host convinced that Islam is peaceful just sent shivers down my spine.
j_not_a:
Do you have a good Email (hopefully) for Glenn Beck ,I would liike to try and put my two cents in as well.
Mackie
This leaves me flabbergasted.
I only got up to about page 60 of that so-called 'peaceful' book because it was so disturbing. How on earth can anyone say they've read the whole thing and come to a conclusion that this is a religion of peace?
And then to go on and promote this idea, which of course people want to believe in the first place. If someone says they've actually read it and come to that conclusion, then they're going to believe it even more, and make those of us who know better look even more foolish or bigoted or whatever.
It just boggles my mind.
As a side note, hurray! I can post here again!
j_not_a:
Whoops! sorry I just noticed you did post and Email for Beck above my comment
thanks
Mo,
Glenn is either afraid of losing sponsers or because of his Christian beliefs he doesnt want to come to the conclusion that Islam is violent because that will force to to face the reality that if it is violent, what do we need to do to protect our Judeo/Christian values.
As a side note, hurray! I can post here again!
Posted by: Mo at November 23, 2007 9:57 AM
LOL, looks like someone had a happy Thanksgiving! And I hope the same for ALL JW and DW's!
Concerning this clown Beck - What, is he literacy-challenged? He can't read?
What is depressing is not so much that someone wrote another piece of crap, but that it is bestselling.
Can anyone explain why after a decade of murderous terror unleashed by Koran quoting Moslems and its justification, if not direct applause, by, again, Koran quoting Moslems, a book like that makes it to the top? In the WEST!
Glenn Beck is either a liar (and did not read the Koran) or a fool (for failing to understand the words on the pages of said Koran, like Sura 9:5 or 9:29-30, et al).
Either way, he got the despotic gist of an entire religion's dogmas completely wrong.
"Peace" in Islam is when all have submitted to their totalitarian theocratic tyranny.
Or was that detail too difficult to cull from a book shorter than the New Testament?
darcy,
I dont think he read it.
beck thinks that the firestorm would come if he said something negative about islam itself. maybe the american mind is changing, though, and there will be heavy criticism of a kind he can't ignore: criticism of his integrity.
i imagine beck's saying, "Oh, I've been called worse, and I can black-out the distress of having my integrity questioned by holding to the one phrase that makes everything right: 'All publicity is good publicity.' "
except that the issue is too important, and he has gain some importance as a spokesman.
glenn, your comment was "I believe." you can make amends just by investigating a bit further, either as a student or by having the right guests on.
darcy,
I dont think he read it.
Posted by: Elric66 at November 23, 2007 10:09 AM
I agree, Elric. I'm going to e-mail him and tell him so.
me@glennbeck.com
Here's the e-mail addy.
Glenn Beck ain't playin' with a full deck......
Elric,
If enough of his listeners complain, he will take notice.
I emailed Glenn B. praising him for the subtle joke that the line "I unequivocably believe Islam is a religion of peace" embodies.
One of his best satires, ever.
And thanked him for the laugh.
As a start I sent this off to Glenn Beck, again I don't exactly know what the context is in his book. Because he has such a large bully pulpit, those that also have bully pulpit in the media need to nail him on this ASAP.
DearMr.Beck and your researchers:
I have not read your book yet, but information is coming down the pipeline that you have read the Qu'ran and determined that Islam is a "Religion of peace". Of course anyone that has read the Quran knows this to be patently untrue.
I certainly hope someone is not attempting to make you look ignorant of Islam, and embarrass you on this topic.
There are of course at least 24 of the 114 surahs that are almost completely devoted to violence toward unbelievers,infidels, and just plain non Muslims. Please advise me that someone is misleading us on your knowledge of Islam.
Sincerely
Mackie
PS. Here is a website that speakes to the "phases of Jihad" in the Quran that you would have read about of course.
http://answering-islam.org.uk/Bailey/jihad.html
For Glenn Beck and all the glenn-becklettes right and left:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VdAt4qWvz_8&feature=related
Saints preserve us from all the useful idiots who have "read" the Qu'ran. If I had a nickle for every time someone told me that they've read it, in a defensive mode, because somehow my pointing out to them that Islam has got problems and by defending the indefensible they think they have somehow protected themselves from me, I would be retired and living on the beach by now.
"I've read the Qu'ran." It's like medicine or an antidote. I've read the Bible too when I was younger and couldn't tell you what certain parts were about because it was boring and I wasn't paying attention or because in my younger years part of it went over my head. There is also evidence that when somebody is reading and they go past a misunderstood word, nothing on the rest of the page is retained. I would imagine that happens A LOT while reading the Qu'ran, especially since so many verses are tedious and honestly, inane. As I work my way through it there are many times when I get so angry because some of the verses are an obvious rip-off of the Old and New Testaments and I can't believe that so many people have been snowed and made miserable for so long by that old con artist, Mo. Please, spare me.
Here's my message to him:
"I just read that you've written a book in which you say "I've read the Koran and can state unequivocably that Islam is a religion of peace." What??
You haven't read any Koran. Yours is a completely false statement. The Koran's main theme is Allah's many commands for extermination of "Infidels" (Jews and Christians) if they don't convert to Islam. In addition, Mohammed was a Warlord mass-murderer of Jewish and Christian males if they didn't convert to Islam. The Jewish and Christian females he enslaved or used as concubines. Mohammed is a fake - no true Prophet is a mass-murderer or slave-owner or rapist or thief or pedophile or polygamist. And Mo was all of those things. Whereas, Jesus, a true Prophet, was none of those things.
There is NOTHING "peaceful" about Islam. Where'd you get that idea from? Certainly not from the Koran. And certainly not from the Hadiths and Sira.
You have written a dangerous book because it is based on a false premise. You have also probably endangered the lives of Jews, Christians, and Buddhists around the world by writing such lies about a violent death cult that seeks to make the world "all for Allah" (Koran), i.e. the whole world Islamic. You would like that for your grandchildren?
Robert Spencer and many others write the truth about Islam. Your book is a flagrant lie. Anyone can open a Koran and see that for themselves. Which is what leads me to believe that you haven't read any Koran! Unless you had your eyes closed!"
Perhaps it might make a dent? And, perhaps not.
If perpetuating the myth that Islam means peace doesn't exact any price, but telling the truth does, well then.... Glenn Buck.
I can't believe that so many people have been snowed and made miserable for so long by that old con artist, Mo. Please, spare me.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 23, 2007 10:47 AM
Oh, yes, I refer to Mo as the "Con Man of All Time" as his con produced an enormous # of conned people, who are still conned in the 21st century, and because his con is responsible for the deaths of so many innocent people, 9/11, plus so many other examples.
"I would be retired and living on the beach by now." --posted by IsabellatheCrusader
May I come, LOL?
The desire to believe an extremely convenient falsehood is overly powerful in some. I haven’t read Glenn Beck’s book yet and I assume he doesn’t mean merely that the Koran’s goal is peace under Islam. No doubt his convenient claim also helps ward off accusations of being a bigoted Muslim basher by moronic lefties who would demand his firing as a hate monger.
Contrast Beck’s impression with that of the brutally frank Paul Sperry in his uncompromising book “Infiltration”. He describes his reactions on reading the Koran with an open mind looking for the peaceful passages: “I was assaulted, page after page, by venomous and violent passages. It read more like a manual of war than any religious tract. The spleenful tenor alone made me physically ill.” (pg 33). After his Muslim acquaintances recommended Ali’s translation (instead of the kaffir Rodwell’s) his noted: “While the overall tone of Ali’s version is much softer, or at least not as nakedly hateful, I discovered that the meaning is nonetheless the same. And Ali’s commentary only confirmed much of my earlier revulsion.”
A lot of Muslims (and frankly all other religionists) must wear highly rose-colored reading glasses.
These supposed "tell it like it is" TV conservatives
are nothing more than a ratings cow for networks swooning the average ignorant person with some rightwing leanings. All it amounts to is having some little crunchy toppings with your softserve icecream.
If Beck had any real knowledge of Islam and spoke it, he would lose his little pasture in one day.
This of course will be the standard response (BELOW) from those of us who send Beck and Email.
The better way to get to Glenn Beck is through other influential conservative talk show hosts or Website folks that share a clear understanding of what Is really stated in the Quran, and Hadiths.
"Thanks so much for the email. Due to the volume of mail this may be the only response you see.
While I do not always see it in a timely fashion I do try to read all of my mail. However, I average over 1000 letters a day and there is no way I can respond to most letters.
I am glad you are listening and even though you may not see a response, I want you to know that I am listening as well."
Thanks,
Glenn Beck
what more do expect from someone who follows a cult in which their "message" was transferred from their "messiah" into a top hat.
It's very strange that I would read the Qur'an and come to the opposite conclusion.
Wow, glenn beck read that peaceful 3%. Maybe when some jihadist blows up his nieghborhood, he'll get around to reading that other 97%. Thanks for keeping everybody asleep, glenn - loser.
Ardent denial of something is often a means to cover up an unpleasant or embarrassing truth.
As in Queen Gertrude's "The Lady doth protest too much, methinks" disclaimer in "Hamlet."
As in "Islam is a rop" - when, of course, it's just the opposite.
It's obvious. He read it in Arabic.
I don't know why talk show hosts are looked upon as exalted experts. The only thing they are really expert at is creating entertaining radio and keeping their ratings up. It's not that they are stupid, it's more like they are informational 'jacks of all trades, but master of none'. What does Beck really know about Islam? What does he really know about much of anything? He is a talk show host, his job is to talk the talk, not walk the walk. That's why these host's are called 'talking heads', they don't have arms and legs to move around with. The only difference between the guy shouting on the street corner, and a radio talk show host, is that the street guy has no microphone, or a large audience.
I don't mind talk show hosts, but I don't consider them hierophants of strange and exotic information, like 'Islam is the Religion of Peace'. With that announcement he is competing with Geo Noory and Art Bell,(coast to coast Am), who are masters at strange and exotic information. I think it is time to abandon Glenn Beck as one who has changed his radio format from public affairs, to the strange, unnatural, and unbelievable. The next thing we will hear about is his conversion.
If you really believe Islam is the religion of Peace, then why not join it? If you can say 'Islam is peace', three times fast, without messing up, then you will have an easy time with the Shahada.
I know Beck can manage that, he's part way there already...
He read it , he just didn't read it in the order of revelation , and he has no idea about abrogation.
Or he is perfectly possessed and is fighting for Islam and other satanic forces.
Re: "I have read the Koran and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Islam is a religion of peace," which is a statement about the Qur'an.
This Glen Beck comment reminds me of Lincoln Steffens' saying in 1919 that the Soviet Union was a workers paradise and "I have seen the future-and it works". Steffens saw what he desired to see.
The Quran is set-up longest to shortest verse, but what matters is chronological order. Later verses that contradict earlier verses (as in wine is good, alcohol is later banned) are abrogated by the later verse. The last orders (which complete supplant the earlier chronological "peaceful verses") are orders to convert, kill or reduce unbelievers to Dhimmi status. The so-called "peaceful verses" are meaningless, just as Lenin and Stalin's "worker's paradise" propaganda was meaningless in reality.
Posted by: Frank at November 23, 2007 11:37 AM
“If enough of his listeners complain, he will take notice.”
Probably not. He sounds beyond that, such an idiot.
However, if enough of his advertisers and sponsors cease to work with him then that will have to take notice.
Follow the money.
Whoops….should read “ then he will have to take notice.”
Those in positions of financial power should boycott him.
Beck look up one word:
ABROGATION
My note to Mr. Beck:
Mr. Beck,
I have read your comment about the Koran, and I can tell you that I unequivocally believe that you did not read the Koran.
Since Glen wears his religion on his sleeve, maybe he should spend some time reading his own religious texts:
These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: God doesn't love everyone.
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood;
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief;
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Proverbs 6:16-19
Maybe there's a "Cliff's Notes" version of the Qur'an of which we infidels are unaware...
Latest Glenn Beck quote from Newsmax.com
Newsmax: At age 43, with four children, are you seeing more to laugh about or more to cry about in the world?
Beck: I’m not becoming more serious with age. I’m becoming more serious with the age that we live in.
I had to spank one of my children for the very first time. He’s three, and he looked at me with different eyes. I saw fear in his eyes, and it tore me apart. I was awake all night. I cried in my wife’s arms all night.
What bothered me so much was, I believe our children are going to have to be fearful an awful lot. They have a future to truly fear. And it’s only coming because people are living in denial.
Yes, Glenn...you are living in denial...cried all night in your wifes arms? Is that how you battle jihad? Try keeping the inflection in your voice to just one octave...wuss
I sent this off to Michelle Malkin:
Dear Michelle:
I don't know if you might wish to pursue this, but the hot topic on JIHADWATCH this morning was this comment found in Glenn Becks new book "An Inconvenient Truth"
Glenn Beck: "I have read the Koran and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Islam is a religion of peace"
See Robert Spencers Jihadwatch.org this morning 11-23-07
Quite frankly we were blown away by this and believe that Glenn Beck could not have possibly read the Quran in anyway. Even if he skimmed through it, he would have come up with a different view of what is written there.
The concern here is that Glenn Beck commands a substantial audience and thus a bully pulpit almost befitting the president.
Regards
Mackie
I wrote him an e-mail explaining abrogation. Also told him he needed to read the hadiths and sura.
Everyone:
1. Please don't write to Glenn Beck.
2. Those who have referred to "hadiths and sura" mean to say "hadiths and sira." A "sira" is a biography of Muhammad. A "sura" is a chapter of the Qur'an.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
I'm afraid I'm going to have to gone down to Barnes and Nobel and do a little reading short of buying Glenns book.
His comments do come into conflict with things he has said in the past about Islam.
I recall that in the last three weeks he had a knowledgable speaker on his show talking about Jihad and I recall he was surprised about something the guest said about Islam, and jihad, I wish I could recall the specifics of that particular exchange that actually surprised me that he did not have a clue about something I had read about for years. Again this was within the past month---HMMM?
If I was within broadcast range and could listen to his show, I would call him. Repeatedly. Until he had the courage to answer the call. I would ask him to explain some of the quran's verses. I'd have a list. Including the top three on my "favorites" list, I would read them verbatim, and clearly, for Beck and his audience.
Sura (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Sura (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."
Sura (47:4) - "So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"
Explain the peacefulness of these verses for your audience Mr. Beck.
I no longer think of Beck as just another "misunderstander" of Islam. Go back and see his 1 hour documentary on Islam "extremist". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5422LKhSVTc )
I can accept one misunderstanding the Koran. Though it is not an excuse. We see it all the time and Robert points them out repeatedly, muslim and non-muslim misunderstanders.
But this statement makes him a liar. He knows the source of violence is the very religion of Islam. (he says so at 3:00 into opening video) I would bet one could find several more contradictory statements in that 1 hour video. But this 1 should be sufficient.
A liar and a fraud.
Beck has always struck me as an imposter and entertainer the few times that I have seen him. He seemed to have a stronger conviction earlier on the Islamic threat but it seems lately, someone from the studio who holds his feed bag (probably Saudi related) has tamed the stallion and now any ROP advocate can ride him.
"This completely ignores, of course, the fact that jihadists around the world are making recruits today by appealing to peaceful Muslims as the exponents of "pure" and "true" Islam, and quoting the Qur'an and Sunnah copiously to buttress this claim".-Robert
This is absolutely true. I have a good friend who was brought-up Arab Muslim. He told me that the problem that non-Jihadist Muslims have is that those who think Jihad is wrong (he used the word "evil") haven't got a leg to stand on in response to Jihadist claims re the teachings of the Quran that support Islamic domination and Jihad. The Jihadists are technically right that they represent true Islam. This has to be really tough for someone born in the religion to admit.
Robert Spencer,
No doubt it'd be a waste of time to write to Beck about this, and he'll also likely interpret a ton of emails as he would ratings as a value in itself. He 'read the Koran, and sticks to the peace line, why would anonymous emails change his mind?
And the other talk show host 'expert' on Islam, Michael Savage, called the Koran's chapters 'Sutras'. One day Savage calls Islam out itself, and contradicts that the the next. NOT to be trusted, as are most [all] talk show hosts when it comes to Islam. Savage just had an interview with one Sheik Kabbani whose white wash of Mohammed and Islam's responsibity for inspiring Islamic Terrorism made Savage sigh with hope. Kabbani came off guy who I believe personally rejects violence, but if he's not willing to confront Mohammed's violence which permeates All of Islam, then he's worthless against Jihad.
His new $60m contract, as mentioned by Hugh, must have a "cool it on Islam" clause, or else, he is now living in the shadow of the sword.
Glenn Beck has probably read the Qur'an, but his comprehension of the arrangement as well as the concept of abrogation as others have noted, is more than likely, deficient.
For all we know, he has consulted Islamic "scholars" to help him interpret the words he has read. We have seen how that goes time and time again.
Awhile back, Glenn made an unfounded statement that he believed, conservatively, that approximately 10% of the world's Muslims are "radicals". He had no more evidence back then, then he does now stating that at LEAST 90% of the world's Muslims are peaceful. His revised statement implies that the number of radicals in his baseless estimation is less than 10% and could go all the way to 1%.
We all must understand that Glenn is tethered to the will of his CNN masters and the masters that control CNN. That is why you don't see Robert being invited to the show anymore. Robert hits too close to the mark to make the heads of CNN comfortable.
Glenn has been diverted to guests like Steve Emersonm, thankfully for that at least, but on the other end of the spectrum, he has also given a platform to the likes of Michael "Osama thinks I am a smart guy" Scheuer. After Osama's latest manifesto, Scheuer has conspicuously not re-appreraed on his program.
Currently, Beck employs Zuhdi Jasser as a spokesman to point to "radical" Islam, which Jasser cleverly refers to the jihadists as practicing "Islamism", while trying to maintain a complete separation of "Islamism" from Islam and its canonical texts.
All of us here already know that common tactic is utter hogwash, but we are in the minority.
Beck is quite perceptive and useful as a spokesman for many things he discusses on his show, but the threat of Islamic jihad and its direct correlation to Islamic doctrine is unfortunately, not one of them.
He deserves no free pass, but he differs little from the supposed astute minds who can not or will not acknowledge the reality of the association of "terrorism" and Islam, a reality that is all too painfully obvious to us all here at JW.
Glenn, like nearly everyone else, is unable to break through the barrier of political correctness, for a variety of reasons I am sure, and to allow the truth of the matter to be spoken, heard and acknowledged by the masses of non-Muslims who so desperately need to do so.
Robert's words:
"Until the Glenn Becks of the world, and Muslims and non-Muslims of good will, understand that and begin to confront it rather than pretending it is not happening, that recruitment will continue."
This is absolutely true and a rare commodity these days.
Frank,
Believe it or not, I feel for your friend. In my saner moments (like now) I think the worst victims of Mohammedan terror might well be those Mohammedans who eschew jihad.
They're like battered wives (and husbands). They can't be openly disloyal to the abusers of their religion. They can't changed their religion. They can't renounce any and all religion, for fear of being tortured and / or killed.
Sometimes I forget that those who have done so are very brave people. Not everyone is up to such courage. Even those who have broken free are living in hiding.
What a horror, to be a Mohammedan.
Glenn Beck: "I have read the Koran and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Islam is a religion of peace."
The verses that vaguely refer to peace are subject to at least the following limitations:
1. Abrogation. 9:5, 9:29, 9:73, and others are regarded by mainstream Islamic scholars as having abrogated earlier peaceful-sounding verses.
2.
(a) The "good" verses constitute less than 5% of the Koran whereas verses of hostility (ranging from insult to calls for summary slaughter) against non-Muslims constitute approximately half of the entire Quran. (The rest is made up of mangled Bible stories, Bedouin myths, or unintelligible gibberish).
(b) Only a small fraction of the "good verses" actually refer to peace. Examining those few, tenuous, ambiguous verses that mention peace, in context, it turns out that what is being proposed is not peace at all, but rather a temporary ruse or stalling tactic while Muslims work to increase their numbers and political and military strength. Meanwhile, Muhammad considered that deception and plunder were acceptable means of building up such strength during the "peaceful" times. Moreover, even the earliest Suras show Muhammad expressing hostility against the Meccan polytheists, basically stirring up trouble and initiating social and political division.
3. "Peace" is defined in Islamic terms. Whereas Beck and others may interpret references to "peace" from a Western perspective, the concept of peace in Islam is something quite different. Islamic peace means, for one thing, that non-Muslims accept Islamic conditions, such as agreeing to never criticize Islam or Muhammad, never challenging Islamic laws, allowing the free unencumbered spread of Islamic law into non-Muslim communities, and accepting the prohibition that disbelievers cannot try to spread their own beliefs (for example, Christians are not permitted to propagate their faith).
-----------------------------
One has to wonder about Beck's reading comprehension ability:
43:88 (Shakir). "Consider his cry: O my Lord! surely they are a people who do not believe. 43:89. So turn away from them and say, Peace, for they shall soon come to know.”
An inquiring mind would not pass over the distinction between actually seeking peace and merely saying the word "peace." Moreover, the reader would not even have to be alert to notice the nasty "for they shall come know" at the end of the verse.
Here is what mainstream accepted commentaries state about this verse:
43:89. Al-Jalalayn.
43:89. Ibn Abbas.
43:89. Ibn Kathir, tafsir.
As the popular imam Qaradawi writes,
[Source]Likewise, the Quran states:
8:61. "And if they incline to peace, incline thou also to it, and trust in Allah. Lo! He, even He, is the Hearer, the Knower."
As noted in Ishaq, p. 326.
Commentaries on 8:61
8:61. Al-Jalalayn.
8:61. Ibn Abbas.
8:61 Ibn Kathir
So "peaceful" outcomes on Islamic terms include the fate of the Banu Qurayzah (who were enslaved and/or slaughtered by Muslims) and the Islamic conquest of Mecca after Muhammad decided he no longer wanted to follow the "treaty" of Hudaybiyah (and this ended in Muhammad's mass forced conversions of the Meccans to Islam).
As the Quran states:
47:35. “So do not falter and cry out for peace when ye (will be) the uppermost, and Allah is with you, and He will not grudge (the reward of) your actions.”
2:286. (Pickthall). Allah tasketh not a soul beyond its scope. For it (is only) that which it hath earned, and against it (only) that which it hath deserved. Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget, or miss the mark! Our Lord! Lay not on us such a burden as thou didst lay on those before us! Our Lord! Impose not on us that which we have not the strength to bear! Pardon us, absolve us and have mercy on us, Thou, our Protector, and give us victory over the disbelieving folk."
I don't know what is true about Mr. Beck. Did he not read it? Or, did he tell the truth after he read it?
His ability to discern spiritual subjects is in question IMO. It is based upon his current religious affiliation. He was raised in the Roman Catholic Church and later converted to the Latter Day Saints. Now just for the record I don't know if he is personally a Christian or not, but the Latter Day Saints are not a true Christian Church. I am not trying to start a flame war.
It all boils down to who is Jesus. That is the all important question. Many different faiths like to say they are Christian. The bottom line in all of them is who is Jesus. That is what makes the difference.
So if he is confused about the LDS then he lacks discernment in understand the Koran as well. I am not arguing interpretation I am just letting both the Bible and the Koran stand equally on what they say.
Matt 16:13-17
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is? "Well," they replied, "some say John the Baptist, some say Elijah, and others say Jeremiah or one of the other prophets." Then he asked them, "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God. "Jesus replied, "You are blessed, Simon son of John, because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.
مات 16:13-17
عندما جاء يسوع الى المنطقة للقيصر فيليب Ea بي ، وسأل صاحب التوابع ، "الذين لا يقول الناس ان ابن رجل هو؟" حسنا ، "قالوا ،" البعض يقول جون المعمدانيه ، اليجاه البعض يقول ، ويقول آخرون ارميا او أحد غيره من الأنبياء. "ثم طلب منهم ،" هل انت الذي يقول انا؟ "سايمون بيتر اجاب ،" انت هو المسيح ابن الله الحي. "اجاب يسوع ،" انت المباركه ، ابن جون سيمون ، لان والدي في السماء وقد كشف هذا اليكم. انت لم يستفد من هذا من اي كائن بشري
He hasn't read the Qur'an and he has done irreparable damage with his careless lies. Some folks are immensely influenced by talk show hosts and believe every word they utter. It is unforgivable for influential people to mislead the masses about something as important as the deadly threat of islam.
More and more powerful conservatives are breaking their necks trying to prove that they are not bigots by becoming apologists for islam. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if Beck is like most people---- incapable of believing that a religion could be evil to the core. I don't know what Qur'an he allegedly read, but it sure wasn't the one I read. Perhaps he has a reading comprehension problem, or perhaps he's just a shameless liar. Either way, he has betrayed his trusting audience by disseminating blatantly inaccurate information.
Correction:
"As the popular imam Qaradawi writes,"
Actually, the quote is from Qaradawi's website (IslamOnline), with author listed only as "Islamic Counsellor." Whether it is from Qaradawi himself or merely approved by him, I do not know.
Bosch Fawstin , I heard Savage call suras "sutras".
We can forgive some ignorance. But to preach about it we should at least know the terms.
"I have read the Koran and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Islam is a religion of peace"
The man is right, except that he forgot the last clause of the sentence: "the peace of the dead".
Not even an observant Muslim can have peace if his neighbors or relatives decide he's not Muslim enough. The only "peace" found in Islam is in death.
Contrast that with the religion of the dhimmis. A dhimmi can have peace within himself and be at peace with his neighbors, even if he is being cruelly persecuted by the followers of Mohammed. The inner strength that is born of peace is the most powerful weapon any non-Muslim has. It can never be taken away from you by force.
interestinconundrum,
That's right, since Islam is an unavoidable topic of discussion, those whose livelyhood Depends on talking feel a need to talk about it, Without the accompanying need to know what the hell it is they're talking about.
Truth, THE value all of them Claim to uphold, doesn't matter to them regarding one of the greatest challenges of our time. It's a disgrace.
Is it just me or did we hear anything about "religion of peace" until after 9/11 by George Bush and then all kinds of people started parroting that misleading line of crap?
j_not_a,
I seem to remember hearing the "religion of peace" crap on and off ever since 1979, primarily when the bombings went on in Europe in the 1980s. Then we heard that it was the religion of peace and that those who carried out this violence weren't following Muslim teaching.
But that's our MSM for you.
When the hostages were seized in Iran and people all over began asking about Islam, I heard that the Iranians weren't mainstream Islam, that they were part of a radical sect. Then when the mainstreamers, the Sunnis, begain attacking us, the story was that the attackers weren't following Muslim teaching. That was big after the first WTC attack when "only" six people died.
How do you thank a man who has just made our world a more dangerous place to live in now?
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
Maybe Beck has chickened out and sold out. He has a great deal to lose if he is straight about Islam. He and his family would have to deal for the rest of his life (or until he recanted) with repeated death threats, some of them very serious, and there would be hatred and persecution coming from Muslims and from some on the Left. His career would be marginalized and diminished, and there would be little or no discernible light at the end of the tunnel.
Back in ancient times, when a huge Persian invasion was bearing down on Greece, a Greek oracle said Greece would not survive the Persian invasion unless a Spartan king gave his life for Greece. Then of course came the famous battle of Thermopylae, where King Leonidas fulfilled the oracle.
Anyway, the West if it's going to be saved will need not just soldiers willing to risk life and limb, but sufficient numbers of journalists and writers willing to do that. The ancient Greek generals understood that in meeting overwhelming forces, the Greeks would do best in a bottleneck or narrow pass where most of the enemy's forces could not fit and thus would be rendered useless. Three hundred Spartans and about two thousand other Greeks held off a Persian army of one hundred thousand or more for a few days by meeting them in a narrow pass. And a greatly outnumbered Greek navy defeated the huge Persian navy by meeting them in the narrow straits of Salamis, where the Persian boats could not all come into play at once. Today journalists and authors have narrow passes to stand and fight within, for example the pass called the First Amendment, which protects the smaller force from being surrounded and overwhelmed. But if too many of our "generals" in the field of journalism refuse to go and fight the greatest enemy to freedom the West has seen, if too many of our authors "Medize," i.e., sell out to the invaders as some Greek city-states sold out to the invading "Medes" or Persians, then the West will be lost.
The ancient Greeks won not only because they used bottlenecks in battle, of course. They won also for reasons Victor Hanson has brilliantly discussed: a free culture can bring to a battle certain kinds of spiritual resources -- adaptability, self-critique, individual initiative at all levels -- that are not so available to soldiers under tyrants.
I have read the Koran and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Islam is a religion of peace.
From this we know that Glenn Beck is horse's ass, a nitwit, and an extremely dangerous person.
But all the talking heads are comfortable with this cognitively dissonant Fictive Reality. Mix in monetary greed with some 6th Pillar of Islam cowardice, and you have a Beck or a Laura Ingraham or a Bill O'Reilly or some other such ilk.
It'd be wonderful if they'd just shut the hell up about Islam and leave us to our own devices. But no, Islam is the hottest subject on the planet now, and by apologizing for this awful belief system is a great way to make money and garner fame.
Sickening.
I think you guys are being to hard on Beck. He's running a mainstream show that attempts to be slightly-right-leaning in an ocean of left-leaning broadcast media. He's trying to raise people's interest in the subject without sounding shrill and extreme--now don't get me wrong, one can hardly sound the facts and rhetoric of Islam without coming off as extreme; I think everyone here knows that. But Beck has in fact reshaped his opinion on Islam to be more, "Aw, shucks, it's just a big misunderstanding" since he's gone on the telly. He's been given a taste of fame and is smitten. He's being very careful to not lose his CNN gig. And in doing so, yes, he has lost his integrity. But he's still a far cry better than most broadcast media commentators, most of whom would never even touch the subject.
Is he wrong on this? Yes. Is he overwhelmingly wrong on his view of Islam as being one of /the/ major threats to the West? I don't think so.
Verse of peace for Glenn Beck:
8:35 "And their worship at the (holy) House is naught but whistling and hand-clapping. Therefore (it is said unto them): Taste of the doom because ye disbelieve."
[Context: Battle of Badr. Note to Glenn Beck: Sura 8 is titled "The Booty."]
3:140. "If ye have received a blow, the (disbelieving) people have received a blow the like thereof. These are (only) the vicissitudes which We cause to follow one another for mankind, to the end that Allah may know those who believe and may choose witnesses from among you; and Allah loveth not wrong-doers.
3:141 And that Allah may prove those who believe, and may blight the disbelievers.
3:142 Or deemed ye that ye would enter paradise while yet Allah knoweth not those of you who really strive, nor knoweth those (of you) who are steadfast?
3:143 And verily ye used to wish for death before ye met it (in the field). Now ye have seen it with your eyes!"
[Context: Battle of Uhud]
33:25 "And Allah repulsed the disbelievers in their wrath; they gained no good. Allah averted their attack from the believers. Allah is ever Strong, Mighty.
33:26 And He brought those of the People of the Scripture who supported them down from their strongholds, and cast panic into their hearts. Some ye slew, and ye made captive some.
33:27 And He caused you to inherit their land and their houses and their wealth, and land ye have not trodden. Allah is ever Able to do all things."
[Context: Raid on Khaybar, or some commentators say Raid on the Qurayzah or others]
Just add Glenn's name to the top of the long list of cowardly dhimmi LIARS who support Islam & the Qur'an.
Re: Frank,
Believe it or not, I feel for your friend. In my saner moments (like now) I think the worst victims of Mohammedan terror might well be those Mohammedans who eschew jihad.
Posted by: Abscedere at November 23, 2007 1:55 PM
-----------------------------
It's true. He once said to me, "I've gone out of my way to make you a friend. It's not easy with you. But I think I've done that".
I told him I've never met anyone so persistent. He's a very bright man-and very direct-at least with me. He thinks.
He must have read the Koran for Dummies.
If indeed he did read anything at all, just like Tony BLiar and George Bush, who remain equally clueless.
But on a more serious note: did you know that the Koran's they distribute (freely) in Australia are signed by catmeat sheik Al Hilali and come from the King Fahd academie?
WoJ cartoonist Shem has just received his complimentary copy via Griffith university, which is a hotbed of Islamic da'awa, funded by millions from the Sowdi's and 8 million by the Aussie government.
Any comments?
My money is on Monday, we will tell his audience that he received a lot of hate mail from bigots and racists who denounced his assertion that Islam is a religion of peace. Any takers?
"left-leaning broadcast media"
I don't see how they could be described as such. The vast majority of broadcast media these days seems to be overwhelmingly conservative. I remember back when the Iraq War was kicking into gear--everyone on the radio was waxing eloquent about what a great leader Bush is and how excellent a decision he was making.
I'm not a believer in the "liberal bias in the media" theory. When virtually every major news outlet accepted the WMD theory hook, line, and sinker, and basically kissed Bush's you-know-what, how liberal can they truly be?
...as for the Qur'an being a book of peace: all I can say is, Wow. I know my brain cells are fried from the gallons of Johnnie Walker I ingested in years past, but good god--not even I am capable of such stupidity. (some on this form might disagree, but oh well)
Elric66,
lol, he might read some on the air - they always make him read hate mail.
"The vast majority of broadcast media these days seems to be overwhelmingly conservative."
LMAO Thanks for the laugh. After seeing all this jihad crap, I needed a good laugh. Thanks
Wow, I agree that Glenn is not as up on Islam as some; but he is still a good person and not worthy of all the stuff being thrown at him here. He is up on Border Security and we would all do well to listen to him and his warning on the things he is up on. He is no much different as Rush Limbaugh; they are both entertainers and as such need to throw in some entertainment from time to time.
Now to the real subject at hand:
Most Muslims are peaceful people. I believe that is true; probably because I believe that most people are good. Most Muslims do not know what the Qur’an teaches. That is because most Muslims do not understand the words they parrot in Arabic. They do not understand that their own religion is based on fear, unequalness of persons, deception, and coercion.
I am of the same Christian faith as Mr. Beck and I have not only read through the Qur'an, I have studied it and the Haddith. After all that, I am convinced that Islam is diametrically opposed to that which is good. Islam is directly opposed to the idea that all men are created equal as demonstrated by the Qur’an based idea of dhimmitude. The Qur’an teaches deception as demonstrated by the teaching of takiya and kitman. The Qur’an teaches armed and offensive jihad. There is no room in the teachings of Islam for ideas such as “all men are endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights” and that “all men are created equal.” Islam is the religion of pitting one people against another, the religion of force, lies, war; Islam is devoid of love.
Some things in this world are true. The reality is that God is real; His reality is testified to by the trees, rocks and all else. The Devil is also real. Bottom line: there are two opposing forces in this world. One is good, no respecter of persons, and is based in love. The other uses force, believes in separating people, seeks to see wars upon the land and is evil. We as God’s children were sent here to earth to see if we would obey God or not. Hence, a person is faced with choosing one of these forces to follow in their lives. You cannot live with both for they are diametrically opposed to each other.
You have a choice to make. This is not a fight of ideology. It is the fight started in the Pre-mortal world before we came here to earth. Satan, Lucifer, our common enemy sought to destroy the Plan of God and fought against it. For this, our common enemy could no longer stay in the Presence and came to earth to destroy the souls of men and women. We are told that our common enemy is a liar and deceives mortals. He can even appear as an angel of light. The same source tells us that we can know whether things are of God or our common enemy by their fruits: “By their fruits shall ye know them.”
It does not take a degree in higher education to know who or what appeared to Mohammad in that cave! And if that is too strong for you, if you cannot handle the truth in purity, look at the fruits of the teachings of Islam. It is Islam that has kept the people of the Mid-east in the seventh century all these years. Yes, Christianity has had its problems; yet, the fruits of Christianity can be seen in the freedoms of the United States of America; for it is upon Judeo-Christian values this nation was built.
Let us hear the end of the matter: It is time to stop parsing words: Islam, as taught in the Qur’an and Christianity, as taught in canonized texts cannot co-exist. We are in the fight for truth. Choose you this day Whom you will serve. As for me. I know what is true. I cannot and will not deny. I will not give up my God given freedoms; I will go to that God who gave them to me before I stop standing up for them and fighting, if necessary, for them.
I have taken my stand. I shall not wilt. I shall not shirk. My die is cast.
mrockroll1969,
Maybe we can actually get our message heard. Hopefully the letters slam him but in a civil way. I still might e-mail him and ask him if a peaceful holy book would have an entire chapter on war booty.
"Wow, I agree that Glenn is not as up on Islam as some; but he is still a good person and not worthy of all the stuff being thrown at him here."
SO do you believe he read the entire Qur'an and got everything wrong or do you think he is caving into pressure and lied?
Yep, that's what I want to see. I want to see somebody, somewhere on tv stand up, read one gruesome part of the quaran, then see if they can say "islam is a religion of peace" with a straight face. Just to here somebody on tv speak the truth about islam, even for one lousy minute, would make my day - no, it would make my entire week.
Six years after 9/11 happened, and not one person can get on tv and tell the damn truth - it's ridiculous.
He's being very careful to not lose his CNN gig. And in doing so, yes, he has lost his integrity. But he's still a far cry better than most broadcast media commentators, most of whom would never even touch the subject.
Brain of Spock,
Where is the logic in your statement? A lie (or misstatement) is better than just avoiding the subject altogether? How can someone who has "lost his integrity" ever again have any influence?
Even on issues of immigration, where some have said he's spot on, why would I listen to him except to hear what others are saying?
If Beck could be intimidated into keeping quiet about the truth of Islam then what else will he keep quiet about, given the right pressure? On how many other issues can people get to him?
He's damaged goods. He's lost his moral authority. Consequently, his views mean nothing.
The other night, I was changing the channel on tv, and came across "red eye" on fox (another useless show). Some guy on there was joking around, saying that he wanted to show a cartoon of mohamed. He picked up a piece of paper that was in front of him, and everybody literally freaked out. I think the camera even panned away for a minute. Everybody was really scared that the guy would show a mohamed cartoon - totally ridiculous...
Six years after 9/11 and everybody is so damn scared of muslims. Give me the 1940's any day, this day and age makes me sick. What ever happened to men? Geez, in the '40's warner brothers came out with tons of cartoons depicting hitler as an ass, and all the movie studio's where cranking out all the great herioc war movies, backing up our soldiers 100%. All the stars where volenteering for the USO and getting people to buy war bonds. Women were working in factories and children were giving up their metal toys for the war effort.
I will continue to e-mail Glenn Beck, as I have been doing for several months now, sending him news articles about his beloved
"religion of peace's" latest contributions to the world.
@Duane
AMEN!
USO shows:
http://www.thewarpage.com/uso.html
"Some things in this world are true. The reality is that God is real; His reality is testified to by the trees, rocks and all else."
...I don't believe in God (or at the very least not the God portrayed in the major monotheistic religions), but I share your disdain for Islam.
So someone appeared to Muhammad in a cave. Sometimes I see "things" when I spend too much time conversing with my good friend Johnnie Walker. It doesn't mean anything. What's appalling is that so many people have bought Muhammad's lies hook, line, and sinker. Almost reminds me of all the crazies who believe L. Ron Hubbard was a prophet, except Muhammad was much more dangerous.
Here is a piano from WWII, signed by 2,641 soldiers between 1945 and 1946. You can find out if one of your reletives signed it.
http://www.hchm.org/wwii/index.htm
Duane, well said!
Glenn is better off sticking with debating ignorant dolts like Columbus, Ohio Mayor Mike Coleman.
If he were to attempt to debate Robert Spencer on the inner workings of Islam, he'd be floored in the first round.
When it comes to Islam....Bush, Pelosi, Kucinich, Conyers, and now Glenn Beck, should all steer clear of discussing subject matter they have no real concept of.
I remember back a few months ago on CNN when Beck was apparently catching some heat for other dumb comments he made about Islam...He addressed the viewing audience and said something to the affect that he believed Islam was a religion of peace and that if anyone had a problem with that, they could go find another "freakin" show to watch.
I like Glenn Beck, but I disagree with him on this particular issue. Hope he comes around soon.
Glenn Beck is a Mormon, so that informs his worldview. He'll never condemn another religion because his own has been attacked so many times.
That said, he is also a raving lunatic. An entertainer in the Rush Limbaugh mold. Enough!
"Glenn Beck is a Mormon, so that informs his worldview. He'll never condemn another religion because his own has been attacked so many times."
Thank God someone finally said it.
http://www.lifeafter.org/Islam_Mormonism.asp
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islamic-mormonism-similarities.htm
Also, consider the issues of alcoholism and drug addiction.
Has Glenn replaced these with addiction to money and fame?
Concerned Citizen -- those are interesting similarities -- chilling really. Now I can see why Glenn supports the Islamic cult, since he's involved in one himself. Scary.
“Until the Glenn Becks of the world, and Muslims and non-Muslims of good will, understand that and begin to confront it rather than pretending it is not happening, that recruitment will continue.”
Mr. Beck is hopelessly ignorant and his statements do grave injury to those who are trying to resist this enemy through a factually correct understanding of the Islamic faith. This is the only way we can defend our culture, our civilization.
Yet I still do not understand Mr. Spencer’s final words. I believe that recruitment will continue regardless of what the Becks of this world do or don’t do. I believe the same holds true for what Muslims and non-Muslims of good will do or do not do, or believe.
Yes, they certainly obstruct our efforts to destroy this enemy.
However, it seems to me that recruitment of Muslims by fellow Muslims is a separate issue that has nothing to do with our efforts to resist.
I wish Mr. Spencer would go into greater detail as he has mentioned this point a number of times. (Of course I may have missed a detailed explanation.) If anyone out there can explain to me Mr. Spencer’s rationale for this belief, please do so.
I've agreed with most of what Glenn represents up until this point. I am very disappointed in hearing of his ignorance or bias (whichever it is) concerning Islam. His views on this topic greatly erodes his overall credibilty with me.
This quote from a previous post may be truer than I would like to believe: "Glenn Beck is a Mormon, so that informs his worldview. He'll never condemn another religion because his own has been attacked so many times."
I am a Mormon, also. And I have observed this characteristic among many Mormons, especially their leadership..."thou shalt not distinguish evil in any other religion, even if it is, which it can't possibly be, because it is another religion."
What is also ironic and hard to swallow, is that so many evangelical and fundamentalist Christians will condemn Mormons before they condemn Islamists. And believe it or not, Mormonism is 1000 times closer to what fundies narrowly define as Christianity than Islam is. Yikes, it's true. We are having difficulty distinguishing between good and evil in "these latter days!"
Boy do I feel foolish. When I read the Koran I found it belligerent, frightening, intolerant, violent and supremacist. I guess I read a badly translated one because I didn't conclude that the book promoted peace, just a lot of killing, stealing and raping.
Did Glen Beck read the same Qur'an I've read? His statements put the lie to his declaration. I doubt he read the Qur'an. Almost every person I've encountered who has read it has come away alarmed by what is found there. This guy cannot possibly have read the Islamic scriptures. I think he's posturing - using politically-correct assessments in order to curry favor with the "in" crowd in our elite strata.
"I have watched the Beck Show and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Beck is confused about Islam."
"I have read the Koran and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Islam is a religion of peace" ..
And I have driven a car and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Ford has built a lot of automobiles.
See how nether part has anything to do with the other?
I found out about islam from a Christian preacher, and it was clear he saw how much about islam is troubling. And he showed many of the problems with what is written in the koran, and how it is explained by their leaders. It lead me to learn more, and I became aware of it's true nature.
Perhaps his learning process is not quite up to speed, or he intended to mislead with his "statement".
Et tu, JihadWatch?
I want to lash out at Glen But
His version of the Koran may be a joke.
Muslims have introduced the word "LOVE" into on line internet sites in select verses where it did not ever exist. Its my understanding the Koran never ever mentioned the word love.
Is the Koran bought at Borders today the same as one bought 5 years ago???????????.
Islam is repackaged polytheism with a monotheistic veil; but Muslims may not like what they find when they unwrap the box.
Islams Pagan Past:
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-polytheism.htm
[information Glenn Beck no doubt neglected to provide in his book]
Wimbledon
I agree.
Please don't bring that topic here.
Well I went and purchased Glenn Becks book at Barnes and Nobel this morning and quite cheaply I might say, I had forgot that I still had a gift card for Barnes and Nobel from a birthday gift; WoW, I've got $3.65 left on the card (maybe a good magazine?) At the top of Page 38 is were this comment is presented by Mr. Beck. However I shall read on in regards to Chapter 3 in Glenns book entitled-- "Radical Islam: Politically correct". I Guess I am hoping to find something redeemable that dispells his comment that Islam is a religion of Peace---But I say to you Beck--were do you think these Islamic radicals get their sources of information? Gee they could actually be from the Quran or the hadiths? You must have said to yourself--ya were do these radicals get these violent ideas-- say maybe if I dig a little I can find out ---hmmm I wonder were I should look?
"I have watched the Beck Show and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Beck is confused about Islam."
Posted by: LoneRanger"
Ranger
"I have watched the Beck Show and can tell you that I unequivocally believe that Beck is confused about Islam."
Posted by: LoneRanger"
Ranger
I haven't read his book; I don't watch his program on CNN because I don't watch CNN; and his radio show is not available in my area, so I don't even know what the book is about. I will assume that it does not focus entirely on islam so why did he even go there?
When you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't talk about it! How hard is that?
I just finished reading Hirsi Ali's "Infidel" and it was great! I started it right after lunch today and put it down long enough to feed the dogs, after several frantic reminders that din- din was long overdue. With no visible resentment or anger, she easily portrays how muslim women are enslaved by islam--- hearts, minds, and souls. It is similar to battered woman syndrome in some ways, difficult to understand unless you have been a victim, known one, or counselled one. She also, in a very subtle way, exposes the similarities between the indoctrination techniques of islam and other cults, and how difficult it is to escape their far-reaching tentacles. And islam is the most insidious of all cults, the most tenacious and dictatorial. She offers valuable insight into the bizarre ethos of muslims, and the courage and determination required for anyone, male or female, to flee its suffocating clutches. Her story is amazing; she is amazing!
Whatever we may feel about the Muslims being or not being a peaceful religion, we, as members of a mainly christian civilization, need to admit that we are not a peaceful religion or civilization and are as such almost incapable of passing judgment on others.
Over the last 500 years, Christians have perpetrated a global genocide against the native peoples of North and South America, Australia and parts of Africa. Estimates of numbers killed vary from 10 to 100 million, but then, nobody was keeping a body count. Christianity provided a doctrine which rendered those people "not people".
Christians have been responsible for genocides in Europe, against the Jews.
Christians have pioneered warfare on a horrifying scale and with a horrifying degree of barbarity.
Christians have created and used nuclear weapons, killing 100,000 civilians in one fell swoop.
Our Christian society hasn't exactly been the most peaceful of civilizations. Certainly, Muslim civilization hasn't killed on anywhere near the scare the Christian civilization has.
damienmorton,
"Certainly, Muslim civilization hasn't killed on anywhere near the scare the Christian civilization has."
You're kidding, right? We've been over this many times here and have concluded that muslims, during their 1400+ year jihad (and counting), have killed WAY more people than christians have.
Attn: Damien Morton....THE intellectual defunct of the week!!
Now you are engaging in the popular LEFTIST tactic of mixing and-or blaming religion for politics.
What makes you think Christians are the equals of muslims when it comes to mass murders and genocide?
I thought it was President Truman and the US military commanders who ordered and planned the atomic bombing of 2 Japanese cities?
When did Christianity come in to play and WHAT does religion have to do with Hiroshima or Nagasaki?
NOTHING at all you European or Canadian waste of humanity!!
Did you forget it was the Japanese who vaporized Pearl Harbor and started the war with America?!?
It certainly was not a conflict between Buddhists and Christians in the USA.
Please tell me do you know of the mass murders and numbers of dead when the muslims attacked and slaughtered Constantinople in 1453?
How many Greeks, Hungarians, Croatians, Bulgars, and Serbs were slaughtered at the hands of muslim INVADERS of Europe when captured on the battlefield?
How many Spanish and Portugese were killed, enslaved, raped, and kidnapped during the 700 YEAR ISLAMIC occupation of Southern Europe?
How many millions of Hindus were butchered in Western India during the islamic occupation for refusing the gift of conversion to islam?
Now how many Russian CHILDREN were shot in the back in Beslan as they attempted to escape from their islamic kidnappers?
Attempting to equate islam and Christianity is as fair and realistic as comparing a pacifist with a mass murderer.
When European nations moved into new areas of the world to colonize it was first and foremost to accumulate natural resources, new sources of food for the homeland, gold, silver, diamonds, and to establish stragegic ports and cities to facilitate the nations naval and army units to distant hotspots around the world.
The more colonies, the more prestige and potential for the Europeans to claim and maintain dominance over their rivals.
I have a final question, please tell me how many Jews live today in all the various Christian nations and how many are living in islamic nations?
Yes, those Christians are sooooooo evil.
You lose again.
Christians did kill lots of people, but that was not because they had been told to do so by God, or to impose their views on other people.
USA didn't kill Japanese because they were trying to make them Christian.
whereas muslims have always killed exclusively in the name of Allah. Allah must be the most blood-soaked god in history, far surpassing Quetzalcoatl of the aztecs etc.
paulc37, you said:
A bit over a year ago I searched for the word "love" in the three standard translations at the USC-MSA Qur'an database. Out of the Quran’s roughly 6,220 verses, the database came up with 76 in which at least two of the three translations use the word ‘love.’ (In an additional 17 verses, love is mentioned, but only by one of the three translations.)
Of the 76 love verses
23 verses speak of what Allah does not love;
24 verses speak of what Allah loves;
29 verses are harder to categorize, but most of them mention kinds of love of which Allah approves or disapproves.
One thing one notices in reading all the "love" verses is that in the Qur'an the word "love" is difficult to distinguish from the word "like." The Qur'an never focuses on love as a phenomenon worthy of notice in itself. In the Qur'an what the word "love" designates is something that is only an accompaniment to other things. The focus is on what one loves, or what Allah loves and does not love, as a despot or tyrant "loves" or does not love certain behaviors among his slaves. When one considers that about one-twelfth of the verses in the Qur'an either allude to or gruesomely detail the horrors of hellfire, the use of the word "love" in the Qur'an often seems like a despot's euphemism for "how to avoid incurring the displeasure of the despot, who if he does not love or like what you do can for eternity inflict upon you tortures beyond imagining." "Allah's" use of the word "love" in the Qur'an also has a whiff about it of "what you can do to have the despot fulfill your wildest earthly desires." Remember that the Qur'anic heaven is remarkably earthly: brocaded couches, the most delicious beverages, 72 virgins, etc.
Having read all the Qur'an's love verses, I see nothing in them that remotely resembles the mysteries of love as plumbed, for example, by Paul in the New Testament or by Thomas Merton in some of his essays. Instead one finds "love" a mere indication of what pleases and displeases the cosmic tyrant, what is halal and haram. One doesn't find in the Qur'an the love that, far from merely reacting, begins things anew, takes initiative from out of the strangely bottomless depths of itself. One doesn't find the creative love that one finds sometimes among very close friends. Love between the closest friends seems sometimes to contain within itself a mysterious superabundance that, unlike matter, doesn't get used up by giving it away, but increases the more of it one gives. It seems to be the infinite "Kingdom of Heaven within you," spoken of in the Bible, and it seems to be absent from the Qur'an, where heaven and hell are almost entirely external and transcendent things that can frighten and seduce, like a stick and a carrot. The Qur'an in that sense appeals to the animalistic aspect in us that only moves in response to external inducements. It does not appeal to the deeper potentials that can awaken in us.
That's a good comment.
damienmorton, you said:
Where in the New Testament did JC say or do anything to indicate that non-Europeans or non-Christians are "not people"? I seem to recall, on the contrary, "turn the other cheek," "love your enemy," "feed the poor," "my kingdom is not of this world," and other statements and deeds that cannot honestly be used to oppress non-Christians.
Glad you liked it.
I second that, traeh, beautifully put.
traeh
That's a great post. I've read similar things before, but your words really hit the mark for me about the what Islam most strikingly lacks: compassion and curiosity in their own right. The inspiration of Christianity and Western thought is outward and expansive and invites us to become our larger selves. By this means we reach others, and ourselves, on a plane that is above everyday existence.
Enlightenment via Islam is not only impossible, it is not even part of the program. It is as tragic as it is dangerous.
"damienmorton" is of course just another Muhammedan troll like so many before him. These people are totally indoctrinated, their statements are entirely identical and this is exactly what they are tought in the mosques and in the madrassah's:
to hate undbelievers and Jews and of course Christians, who have (according to them) comitted all these crimes, especially the crusades, which, as we all know now,- was defensive warfare, but for the Muhammedans self- defense goes against Allah's will, infidels have no right to resist the religion of Allah, because 'unbelief is worse than slaughter'- and so it continues ad infinitum, until the world is turned into a Muhammedan nightmare or until we succeed to reduce the Islamic belief-system to the absurdity that it is.
damienmorton -- you're a Muslim right? If not, then what are you? And is it fair to say that you aren't a Christian?
Maybe you shoud start your own website entitled Christian Watch, since you consider them to be a threat to society. Good luck finding any current headlines though, as you will be hard pressed to find any murderous crimes done in the name of Jesus, since Muslims dominate the world scene when it comes to blood shed.
"Muhammaden nightmare" pretty much sums it up.
Give Beck a chance, people!
It was he who put together "The Perfect Day," where Muslim extremists might attack many many sites, including schools and buses.
I think he gets it.He is certainly right about global warming and illegal immigration.
He's being attacked by Muslims all the time, so he must be doing something right.
Let the man do his job. He will help to wake up America!
mary,
How will he do that? Either he cant comprehend while reading the Qur'an, he lied about reading the Qur'an, or he is bowing to sponser or CAIR pressure.
The man is a danger.
Glenn Beck also thinks Al Sharpton is a swell guy. That's strike two, Glenn.
Rick,
Really? I dont get to listen to him a lot but havent heard him say anything about Rev Al. Good or bad.
Just calling Islam peaceful calls for 3 strikes
Elric, I've watched the show a few times where he had Fat Al on as a guest. Those interviews just ooze with smarminess. And like islam, he never calls Fal Al on his bullsh*t, past (Tawana Brawley Hoax) or present.
Damienmorton said,
"Christians have created and used nuclear weapons, killing 100,000 civilians in one fell swoop."
Were those the same civilians who supported their military's systematic rape of China? Are you talking about the civilians who taught their children that taking out other people while committing suicide is an honorable thing? Did you mean the civilians of the military that practically destroyed the U.S. Fleet back on 12/7/41 in a cowardly attack that had no provocation?
Just how does one deal with a people who will kill themselves as long as they can kill you too?
Rick,
I never watched his show just listen to his radio show. Which is good. He is so dead right on so many issues, I cant believe he would have Islam so wrong, or kiss up to Sharpton.
The Prophet's idea of "love" is what transpires between a man in his forties and a nine year old girl.
". . . He is so dead right on so many issues, I cant believe he would have Islam so wrong, or kiss up to Sharpton." ~ Elric
White Mormon guilt. (And people think white Catholic guilt is bad!)
You might be right Rick.
Why he would feel so guilty that he would turn a blind eye to evil is beyond me.
It is Beck's demagogic manner, as much as his idiotic matter, that so offends. He does not try to educate. He hasn't bothered to educate himself about Islam, or about a great many other things either (for example, global warming). He rants, he taunts, he sneers, he postures, he never addresses a question without indicating that his mind, at least, is made up, and then he throws the red-meat of cheap sarcasm, usually about "liberals," at his presumed adorers in the Outer Ether. He's not a "conservative." I doubt if he's read a word of Burke or any Josef Pieper or any other conservative in his life. Besides, the degradation of the democratic dogma, and the collapse of education in this country -- two issues that should matter to a "conservatie" -- don't exist for Glenn Beck.
Or many other demagogues, on radio and television, just like him. Of right, and left.
After reading Hugh's post it's Glenn's wife and children that I feel the most sorry for, as they must get mega doses of his rants, taunts & sneers, etc. We can change the channel, but they have no where to hide.
I noticed that his (cough) very own recommended reading list includes--are you ready?--
Bruce Bawer's 'While Europe Slept'.
He's probably read as much of that as he did the Qur'an.
PRCS,
Ironic isnt it?
Robert,
This post deserves a new "Jihad Watch" video segment at 'Hot Air'. It's guaranteed to make blood shoot out of everyone's eyes. You could even say as much at the beginning of the clip.
It wouldn't surprse me at all that...although bewildering him saying what he did, it turns out it's called providing "equal time" to the "fairness doctrine" fanatics at CAIR news network, since he has become increasingly hostile to jihadists lately, and CAIR news network didn't like it...
and he IS ON that very same *ahem* "network", so he has to tread lightly...lest they cut him off faster than Imus & the nappy-headed ho's" incident.
He can't bite the hand that feeds him...they WILL shut him down in a new york minute, and everyone knows it.
And what about Surah 9.5?
Glen who??? By any chance is he the one on the Cresent News Network? Beck, Mmmmmm, Beck. Is there some reason we should know of this guy?, who ever he is.
Is he someone who at first is kind of wishey and then a little washey. Then he spins arround and when he's done you put it in the Dryer?
Is that the Beck Glenn your refering to?
After reading this about Glenn Beck, who I think is a very informative and entertaining talk show host and commentator, I can honestly say that I am not to terribly surprised by his comments. Hannity, and Limbaugh, who I listen too when I get the chance, have basically, to my knowledge, never been critical of Islam while on the air. They have been critical of "Jihadist", and "Islamic Fanantics," but never of the religion of which these ideologies are rooted. Like Beck, Bush, and many a liberal apologist, they have primarily been very careful in what they say about Islam, the religion. The only conservative talk show hosts that I have heard literally criticize Islam to the hilt have been Michael Savage and Jim Quinn. Savage and Quinn get it. Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity don't. That is scary, espcially since I think Limbaugh and Hannity are Numbers 1 and 2 to Beck's 3.
Glenn's book is disappointing, albeit not surprising. In this PC climate I don't expect people to take on Islam per se, but I do expect people to avoid affirmatively misleading statements such as "religion of peace" etc. For example, Rush isn't much better on this topic, but you won't hear that most annoying of phrases coming out of his mouth.
All of that being said, Glenn's show is much better on Islam than anything else on CNN. In covering topics such as Iran, immigration, and terrorism, his show may be the best regularly scheduled program on all of TV.
Everyone on TV now a days is more showman than statesman. Is there a current day equivalent of Firing Line with William F. Buckley? Nope.
Bottom Line: Rag on Glenn all you want, but his show is still better than 99.9% of the regularly scheduled current events shows out there.
Sad, but true. Until then, we wait for kings to become philosophers or philosophers to become kings.
I do not understand, either, how anyone can read the Koran while conscious and not be repelled by its numerous martial passages - clear exhortations to believers to fight, kill, and subdue infidels. In addition, it has not been explicitly pointed out by any commenters on this thread that there are many other passages in the Koran that may appear innocuous on their face but which are anything but -to "strive in the way of Allah" comes to mind as an immediate example. In order to become fully aware of the nefarious meaning of such passages, the reader must become somehat familiar with tafsir, or Koranic interpretation, based upon the efforts of Muslim scholars and the consensus of the Ulema. The contentious, belligerent, intolerant, and disdainful tone of the Koran toward Jews and Christians is set immediately, in Sura I, where the Believer prays that Allah will keep him on the Straight Path, and help him avoid the path taken by those who have incurred Allah's wrath, or the path of those who have lost their way. The orthodox interpretation of this seemingly innocuous passage should make any infidel cringe, as those who have incurred the wrath of Allah are none other than the Jews, and those who have lost their way are in fact the Christians. Right from the outset, then, these two groups are villified, and, as such, are considered deserving of the wrath and contempt of all Believers. And this villification comes directly from Allah.
As mentioned in another post, Glenn Beck eagerly admits it when he is wrong or needs correction! Could it be that he hopes to arouse controversy and get us to talking about Islam, knowing that the eventual outcome will be a groundswell of knowledge about what Islam really is?!Hm-m-m mayhaps it is wishful thinking on my part but stranger things have happened!
"Bottom Line: Rag on Glenn all you want, but his show is still better than 99.9% of the regularly scheduled current events shows out there."
Posted by: JSobieski at November 24, 2007 3:01 PM
Well put, and agreed 100%. That being said, I also agree that Glenn falls well short in this vital topical category.
Robert,
Please help me to understand, for I am truly confused. We know that Beck is only parroting the long-held position of the White House. Thus, to disagree with his statement is to disagree with the Party line. Since anyone who disagrees with the Party is a "terrorist" and are "totally in bed with the Islamofascists", as Horowitz believes, where do you and this site's readers fit in? Since both Beck and Horowitz feel that such dissent should be squelched, militarily if need be, would Horowitz propose military action against JW and DW - his own sites? Also, I have seen on this site yours and others opposition to the war in Iraq. According to the Party, Beck, Horowitz, and other neo-con spokespersons to do be so is anti-American and pro-terrorist, yet this site exists, is that not paradoxical?
LMAO
spoken like a true dailykook'ster.
spoken like a true dailykook'ster.
with all respect, "yearly kookster" does him more justice.
Hi people. Just wanted to clarify. I am neither Canadian nor European nor American, and neither Christian nor Muslim.
As to the point about Pearl Harbor - wikipedia lists the casualties as 2400 military killed, and 35 civilians killed. You could hardly call that vaporisation. Were this to happen today, a slick military spokesman would talk about targetted bombings and a sincere desire to avoid civilian casualties.
Someone who mentioned lack of provocation should read up on Japanese American relations during the 1930s. War was inevitable - who struck first is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Truman et al who ordered the vaporisation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were Christians in a primarily Christian nation. It was an act by Christians. Before they acted they would have prayed to a Christian god asking for success, and afterwards they would have gone to bed praying for forgiveness from a Christian god.
I honestly don't know what the casualties were during the Muslim occupation of Spain, nor what they would have been in the attack on Constantinople, nor what they would have been during the Malmuk occupation of India. I would welcome some sources though. I would be sincerely surprised if they were in the 10-100 million range, however.
Regardless of what the casualties were as a result of the various Muslim occupations, the result could hardly be called genocide as those peoples and cultures inarguably remain in existence today. They same cannot be said of the peoples of North America, Australia, and to a certain extent South America
Hi people. Just wanted to clarify. I am neither Canadian nor European nor American, and neither Christian nor Muslim.
So what? If you are prepared to use honest arguments why should "people" care?
Truman et al who ordered the vaporisation of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were Christians in a primarily Christian nation. It was an act by Christians. Before they acted they would have prayed to a Christian god asking for success, and afterwards ...praying for forgiveness from a Christian god
Thanks to Christian (and Jewish) God to Whom Truman and the “primarily Christian nation" prayed for granting its scientists (both Christian and Jewish) the brainpower to make and use the atom bomb thus saving at least a million American (and Japanese)lives.
But since you are not American why should you care, right?
And let’s not forget that it was the threat of the bomb that deterred the Communist Empire from enslaving the peoples of the Western Europe. Europe owes the bomb its freedom.
But, again, since you are not European why should you care?
War was inevitable - who struck first is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
Inevitable? Have America had a bomb, or a navy comparable to the Japanese, would Japan dared to attack it? Are you serious? Or perhaps you believe that America would have attacked Japan if she had the military power? But if so why it didn't develope one - just as Japan did?
Once Germany turned Nazi the war in Europe was inevitable too. Perhaps you can conceive a “scheme of things” grand enough to make the matter of “who struck first” irrelevant, but for me, who unlike yourself, is European, it still is and, I pray, will always be of supreme importance.
Regardless of what the casualties were as a result of the various Muslim occupations, the result could hardly be called genocide as those peoples and cultures inarguably remain in existence today.
OK let’s start with Maghreb. Which of the original cultures survived the Arab invasion? Which of the original peoples are masters of their ancient homelands?
What happened to the original people of, what today is, Turkey?
What happened to the original Zoroastrian culture of Persia and the Buddhist culture of Afghanistan? Some 80 million Hindus were slaughtered in the most horrific holocaust of history carried out by Moslem Moguls. Doesn’t it count on your “grand scheme of things”?
But why do we need to go so far back. Look at Kosovo, Indonesia, Thailand, Nigeria, Kashmir, Sudan…Pakistan…Egypt… TODAY, where Christian, Buddhist and Hindu, not only cultures but lives, are under a most vicious assault and daily terror from Islamic barbarism. In how many places in the world those who “pray to Christian God” subject non-Christians to a comparable torment?
Just wanted to clarify. I am neither Canadian nor European nor American, and neither Christian nor Muslim.
One has seen worse drivel than yours coming from Christian Canadians, Europeans and Americans. So who needs your clarification?
"damienmorton" is of course just another Muhammedan troll like so many before him. These people are totally indoctrinated, their statements are entirely identical and this is exactly what they are tought in the mosques and in the madrassah's:
to hate undbelievers and Jews and of course Christians, who have (according to them) comitted all these crimes, especially the crusades, which, as we all know now,- was defensive warfare, but for the Muhammedans self- defense goes against Allah's will, infidels have no right to resist the religion of Allah, because 'unbelief is worse than slaughter'- and so it continues ad infinitum, until the world is turned into a Muhammedan nightmare or until we succeed to reduce the Islamic belief-system to the absurdity that it is.
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at November 24, 2007 4:19 AM"
I agree with sheik and wanted to repeat his comment because I believe that damien is lying and that he is a Muslim.
In my original post I asked him if he was a Muslim -- and if not -- then what was he. Notice how he didn't even bother to explain WHAT his religious background was? Guess he decided to omit that part of my question because he's ashamed of his religion. Obviously. Can't say I blame him for recoiling from my question.
Projecting is your only strategy damien, but we're on to you here. Go away.
Champ,
It shouldn't have really mattered if that damien thing was a mohammedan, moonist, or a satanist if he had used honest arguments.
I thought he is only dumb, but I can see he is a troll. Perhaps both.
I will follow your example and ignore him in the future.
cheers
Hi champ - I am not a member of any organized religion. If you need a label, then Deist will do.
Thomas - whats your source on the 80 million figure?
sorry to mention this to you guys but glen is not a christian, he is mormon, and they do not consider themselves christians. They are polythiest. I propose those of you should watch the new film September Dawn, it was out for two weeks in the movie theaters before it was pulled by clearchannel and other behind the scence powers. This is important, some will attack me but while watching the PBS show on the life of MOhhamad my mormon girlfriend stated how the two "prophets" had similar lives. Both found god through seeing an angel and haveing the Better version revealed to them, then they were forced out from their places to find another homeland. In fact there is references to Islam in that movie i mentioned.
To make it clear i am not anti mormon, hell my girl is one, but we need to look at things rationaly, there are simularities between the faiths, though they are on opposite sides right now, but Glen's views are comprimised on this subject. also he is an apologist but hugh put that better than i could.
thanks
WHERE to start with ULTRA-LEFTIST Damien Morton I dont know?
So I guess you are just a dhimmi or muslim posing as a leftist....who cares.
Regarding your bastard comment on light casualties or non-incineration of Pearl Harbor let me tell you this you skirt wearing fool.
There were a total of 2,896 casualties of which 2,117 WERE DEAD PERSONNEL!!
The Japanese than destroyed 161 aircraft on the ground.
Attacks on warships at anchor sank 3 battleships, caused a 4th to capsize, severely damaged another 4 battleships, 3 light cruisers, and 3 destroyers.
So I guess you believe this "to be less than incinerating"?
I would love to be witness to you saying this poison to survivors and relatives of Pearl Harbor survivors and than you would experience first-hand the true meaning of vaporization.
Another question, please tell me the date and location of where Truman prayed for using the atomic bomb and how many Japanese he planned to convert to Christianity?
You keep blaming Christianity for the war and the reality is there is no connection or truth to any of your blabberings.
It is not true cuz you demand it is true.
This was all power politics and economics to keep Japan in check and to slowly overthrow the European empires and replace them with the USA as the dominant superpower.
Sorry, no Christianity in that situation.
Thanks for thinking so lightly of American blood.
Alleged reasoning as this is why many in the world hate people as you.
Leftists only complain and attempt to interfere with people trying to run a war or govt, they never care to provide solutions to problems.
Next you fart about the fanciful world of peaceful relations of OCCUPIED Spain and Portugal under islamic jihadists.
What voice in your head or source do you have to show that anything at anytime was peaceful or happy for the Europeans?
Perhaps there were many mute Europeans as the ones who dared to complain or rebel were quickly massacred or enslaved.
Yes, I would love to see you live in those times under islamic rule.
Hey, I have an idea.
Why dont YOU today go to some islamic nation and live there for some months or a year and come back and tell us all about the heavanly experience?
Right, you would never do that.
You prefer to engage in leftist, keyboard tripe, propaganda while living in a western society that allows you to complain with no reprucussions.
I see you also referred to the great islamic contributions today in Spain and Portugal that muslims make to us infidels.
Are you referring to the Madrid train bombings that killed 191 people or the London attacks?
Marvelous islamic contributions, we need more of that in the western world.
Sorry, I dont see us non-muslims doing the same on our own people.
Were too busy educating ourselves, earning 2nd degrees buying homes, and watching our backs from 5th columnists like you.
Damien, you are a twad.
The more you write here, the more evidence you provide of a deep, mental disorder.
If you want evidence of mass murders, rapes, and enslavement by your islamic friends-cohorts than go to this site for some pleasant reading.
www.bharatvani.org/books/mssmi/ch5.htm
TO Hungarian Crusader
Great job, but unfortunately you will not make any impression on Damienmorton. This individuals beliefs are ideologically based, not fact or logic based. His/Her's is a fervent faith that will probably never be shaken.
A wise person once said,
"You cannot reason a person out of a position they
were never reasoned into."
Thomas - whats your source on the 80 million figure?
read that and follow the links:
www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=16027ED9-FFFE-4E3C-B9B6-30E0F0D980FC
Hungarian Crusader - will you admit that Christians have been responsible for the "mass murder, rape, and enslavement" of untold millions, and that Christianity, as represented by the actions of nations that had a Christian state religion at the time, can no more be called a peaceful religion than Islam can.
thomas - thanks for the link - will check it out