Oh, those Saudi Islamophobes. Don't they know that only those who Misunderstand Islam actually enforce the punishment mandated by Qur'an 5:38?
From AFP (thanks to Twostellas):
An Egyptian pickpocket has had his right hand cut off in Saudi Arabia for robbing visitors to Islam's holiest site, the Grand Mosque in Mecca, the official news agency SPA said.Amro Mohammed Zarif Nasr was found guilty of theft inside the mosque in the holy city in the west of the kingdom and was sentenced to amputation, the agency quoted an interior ministry statement as announcing.
Theft from the Grand Mosque and from the Mosque of the Prophet Mohammed at Medina - the second most holy site for Muslims - can be punished by amputation of the hand up to the wrist, with repeat offenders losing both hands.
this just shows how barbaric the muslim faith is
What happened in Mecca to this man will happen in other countries if the Sharia is fully implemented. Instead of advocating the chopping off of hands for picking pockets, the mn should have been made to repay his victims fo whatever he stole from them.
On a less corporeal level, and without diminishing the horror of being amputated for a minor crime, I must say that the PC establishment of the US is on the same moral level as the Saudi theocrats. They will destroy the very livelihood of individuals such as Thomas Klocek to appease the Islamist extremists. It doesn't matter whether Klocek has any chance of getting another job or not. It doesn't matter whether Klocek has children to support. It only matters that Klocek simply got into a debate with Islamists about Palestine. The simple fact that he did and that Islamist children at DePaul and CAIR then went on a campaign of persecution to destroy Klocek means that he lost his job. He was amputated. So amputation at the hand of Islam happens in the US too.
Islam is the religion of amputation: amputate a finger, an arm, a person's livelihood, if you offend an Islamist in any way, whether it is for a petty crime or for just saying what you think (which constitutes a though crime).
Islam has some problems, Houston. Houston? Hello? Houston?
Hard to believe anyone pickpocket these days? havent they heard of Nigerian email scams?
He should just claim that he was emulating the "prophet" Mohammad's behavior when he was in Mecca.
Mo stole the entire city.
And two previous religions.
This guy's a piker in comparison.
To paraphrase the Koran: Steal big, and it stays in the hand; steal small, and you lose the hand.
He stole from Muslims instead of unbelievers, and in this respect blew his emulation of Mohammed. End of story.
On another point, I keep hearing about the various rankings of holy sites of Muslims: Holiest, second holiest, #1, #3, #5, etc., etc. What are the parameters of this competition? Is my backyard in the running?
We have no right to be judging since all cultures are equally good and wonderful. Hand amputation is a legitimate cultural practice. We must respect other cultures. As we have been taught (most recently by Charles at LGF) it is only the most racist fascist who stands up for his or her beliefs in the West.
We must respect amputation, clitorectomy, stoning, beheading and other cultural practices as beautiful and exalted practices of cultures that are equal, and quite probably superior, to our own horrible and degraded Western culture.
To make any judgements is racist and Islamophobic. To think is a capital judgement. We must respect these other great cultures.
Amputation is a slap on the wrist. Ignorance is strength. Freedom is slavery. Islam is peace.
If repeat offenders lose both hands, what appendage is amputed for repeat repeat offendors?
Amputation for the crime of "pickpocketing"?
That is one way to communicate the community's displeasure.
However, draconian it may seem it actually a great deterrent, since everyone knows that they should steer clear of a one handed man.
"....with repeat offenders losing both hands."
Wow -- they didn't learn their lesson the first time?
Wimbeldon Womble, you forgot treating women like livestock, killing them if they disobey you, or ruin the "honour" of the family. Even their virulent racism is to be admired as a joy.
I exalt these things to the heavens, in the name of multi-cultural paradise.
All cultures are equal, but the more barbaric the better.
"Amro Mohammed Zarif Nasr was found guilty of theft inside the mosque in the holy city in the west of the kingdom"
...hmmmm....must have picked the pocket of the maroon in front of him, who was bobbing his head on the ground with his arse in the air....I guess the thief thought no one was looking as all had their heads on the ground...
...geee, thieves in a mosque, who woulda thunk it.....
.....would a worse punishment be to force the man to convert to Christianity, thereby marking him for death....
From profitsbeard:"To paraphrase the Koran: Steal big, and it stays in the hand; steal small, and you lose the hand."
Oh har di har.
I've got to hand it to you.
Wimbledon,
From the Risala:
"37.36b. Multiple cases of the same crime
In such a case of theft, the hand applies of a man, woman or slave is cut off. If the person steals a second time, his left foot is cut off. If he steals a third time, his left hand is cut off. If he steals a fourth time, his right foot is cut off. If he then steals again, he is flogged and imprisoned.
[ The amputation takes place at the wrist and at the ankle. If he is imprisoned, it is until he repents or dies.]
[The expense of his imprisonment comes from his own property. If he has no property, then from the Muslim treasury.]"
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/RisAhkam.html
From the Reliance of the Traveler:
Chapter P-21.0: Theft
P-21.1
Allah Most High says:
"Thieves, male or female-cut off their hands in retribution for what they have earned, as an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Almighty and Wise" (Koran 5:38).
Chapter O-14.0: The Penalty for Theft
O-14.1
A person's right hand is amputated, whether he is a Muslim, non-Muslim subject of the Islamic state, or someone who has left Islam, when he:
(a) has reached puberty;
(b) is sane;
(c) is acting voluntarily;
(d) and steals at least a quarter of a dinar (n: 1.058 grams of gold) or goods worth that much (A: at the market price current) at the time of the theft:
(e) from a place meeting the security requirements normal (A: in that locality and time for safeguarding similar articles (def: o-14.3);
(f) provided there is no possible confusion (dis: o-14.2(3) ) as to whether he took it by way of theft or for some other reason.
If a person steals a second time, his left foot is amputated; if a third time, then his left hand; and if he steals again, then his right foot. If he steals a fifth time, he is disciplined (def: o-17). If he does not have a right hand (N: at the first offense), then his left foot is amputated. If he has a right hand but loses it after the theft (O: by an act of God) but before he has been punished for it, then nothing is amputated. After amputation, the limb is cauterized with hot oil (A: which in previous times was the means to stop the bleeding and save the criminal's life).
http://www.muhaddith.org/cgi-bin/dspl_cgi.exe/form
From the Hadith:
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38, Number 4396:
Narrated Jabir ibn Abdullah:
A thief was brought to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him). He said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his hand. So his (right) hand was cut off. He was brought a second time and he said: Kill him. The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah! Then he said: Cut off his foot.
So his (left) foot was cut off.
He was brought a third time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his hand. (So his (left) hand was cut off.)
He was brought a fourth time and he said: Kill him.
The people said: He has committed theft, Apostle of Allah!
So he said: Cut off his foot. So his (right) foot was cut off.
He was brought a fifth time and he said: Kill him.
So we took him away and killed him. We then dragged him and cast him into a well and threw stones over him.
At least they were kind enough to leave him his left hand, so he can still wipe his ass.
Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch where art thou?
Khaybar,
Rasool Allah (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) appears so conflicted in the recounting of this sabab, yet it is sahih! My iman in the deen of Allah ia shaken, what an ugly murtadd you have made me.
If you think this abhorrent, Islam additionally has specific instances in which it requires limbs to be severed prior to execution; cross amputations; and nails into the eyes for the poor soul to be left in the sand to die of dehydration.
The American thinker has a good article on the subtleties of Islamic torture and punishment at
http://www.americanthinker.com/2005/06/crucifixion_and_mutilation_in.html
The article says concerning Bukhari vol. 4, no. 3018:
"though this passage is awkwardly translated, it is one of many that should shock Westerners and everyone of a sound mind. Muhammad actually pierced their eyes with nails (one version says with needles). Then their bodies were thrown on stony ground, dying of dehydration. One version says they died from the battering they suffered from being thrown on rocky ground; another says they died from loss of blood, for Muhammad did not cauterize their amputated limbs. Regardless, it is one thing to execute first—degree murderers, but torturing them like this is excessive, and excess is never just. Once again, Muhammad takes things to extremes."
P.S. If Muhammed is an extremist does this mean that anyone who follows his teachings is an extremist?
So, having paid his debt to society, what is this poor schmuck supposed to do for a living in a pre-industrial economy? It's really a lesser form of capital punishment
What if exculpatory evidence turns up? Oops! Too late!
Marwan's Daughter-
"Lefty" could have pronounced "takfir" upon his victims at the trial, claiming that he thought they were not true Muslims. And thus fair game for "booty" call.
(Maybe they were bowing wrong. Or some other infraction.)
Why not use the madness against itself?
Clearly, if any Muslim can pronounce another Muslim "no longer a Muslim", there's room for appeal.
"Raise your right... er.... left hand, and repeat after me..."
sceptico wrote:
"So, having paid his debt to society, what is this poor schmuck supposed to do for a living in a pre-industrial economy? It's really a lesser form of capital punishment"
------------------------------------------------
I remember reading about a former taxi driver in Afghanistan, who had his right foot amputated by the Taliban. It's hard to drive a taxi without a right foot!
--
CT yank
Well, I suppose it could always be worse. If the protagonist in this tale of woe had fallen into the hands of the Americans, and been sent to Abu Ghraib, he would have been subject to the demeaning "human pyramid" torture, or perhaps even compelled to wear the fabled "panties from hell". As it is, he can count himself lucky and start saving up for that hook.
Worse yet, he could have been offered a ham sandwich or a bowl of gelatin!
I thinking, just how did Hanza Hook really lose his hand
A thobe probe?
Where is CAIR?
Why are they not protecting him? (sarcasm)
They let him keep his left hand for sanitation.
http://www.savage-productions.com/winston_churchill.html
WINSTON CHURCHILL ON ISLAM - IN 1899!
"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.
A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has
ceased to be a great power among men.
Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.
No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."
-Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
Sir Winston - tell it like it is.
Question - if the Middle East was not sitting on an underground lake of oil and natural gas, would Islam even be on the radar?
"Question - if the Middle East was not sitting on an underground lake of oil and natural gas, would Islam even be on the radar?"
YES. 'Slims have been hijacking legitimate commerce and kidnapping/enslaving infidels long before oil was discovered. Thomas Jefferson sent the tiny US Navy to fight muslim pirates during his presidency.
Sceptico; "So, having paid his debt to society, what is this poor schmuck supposed to do for a living in a pre-industrial economy? "
Sell his organs?
"Theft from the Grand Mosque and from the Mosque of the Prophet Mohammed at Medina... can be punished by amputation of the hand up to the wrist, with repeat offenders losing both hands."
Because Allah is merciful.
Pickpocket's hand amputated for Mecca mosque theft
............................
Obviously his biggest mistake was committing his crimes in a mosque.
from the article cite by David English:
"Amnesty International recorded 90 judicial amputations between 1981 and December 1999 in Saudi Arabia, including at least five cases of cross amputation, but the true number is probably much higher."
Also, in the past twenty years, two highway robbers have been crucified--yes, *crucified*--in Saudi Arabia.
More from the article, where we find whining--not from the poor victim, but from the executioner:
''...for me it is more difficult to cut off a hand than to carry out an execution, because executions are done momentarily by the sword and the person leaves this life. By contrast, severing a hand demands more courage, especially because you are cutting off the hand of someone who will remain alive afterwards, and also you have to cut it off at a specific joint and use your skill to make sure that cutting implement stays in position. As I said, it is much more difficult for me to cut off someone's hand than to execute them, both in terms of carrying out the penalty itself and in terms of my own feelings.''
The executioner wants the interviewer to consider his tender feelings, The feelings of the poor victim are not mentioned. I will not comment on his concept of "courage".
Does anyone here remember the case of a small child--I think an eight-year-old boy--who was sentenced to have his arm run over by a huge SUV as punishment for theft? I can't find the link.