But fear not. The courts are on the case. "Muslim Rivalry Hits New York Prisons," by Joseph Goldstein in the New York Sun (thanks to Irish Infidel):
The rivalry and violence between Sunni and Shiite Muslims isn't just limited to Iraq. It is increasingly found in one place presumed shut off from the influence of faraway sectarian politics: New York's state prisons.In the last two decades, the state's Muslim inmates, who number 7,987, have been increasingly identifying as either Sunni or Shiite, a phenomenon that prison chaplains elsewhere say is most pronounced in New York. Shiite inmates, who make up less than 4% of the Muslims incarcerated here, have long reported religious persecution by the Sunni-dominated Muslim chaplaincy employed by the state. The Sunni-Shiite divide has played a role in at least one stabbing between inmates in 2004, e-mails by prison officials show.
Shiite inmates have long demanded their own chaplains and a separate place to pray on Fridays, apart from other Muslim inmates. A little-noticed federal court ruling improves the prospects that Shiite inmates will see their demands met.
The recent ruling by the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals opens the way for a trial in which jurors will weigh the demands of Shiite inmates seeking a separate Friday prayer service against the staffing and logistical concerns of prison officials. The court ruling overturns a court decision by a federal judge in Syracuse, Paul Magnuson, who ruled last year that Shiite Muslims could either pray individually from their cells or join the general Muslim service, which Shiite inmates say is Sunni-dominated. Noting that at least five Shiites are needed for a prayer quorum, Judge Magnuson said there even weren't likely enough participating Shiite inmates at any facility to constitute a valid communal prayer.
The 2nd Circuit's decision asks Judge Magnuson to look closer at whether joint prayer with Sunnis impinges on Shiite beliefs and at the prison system's capacity to accommodate separate prayer services. The three federal judges who sent the case back to Judge Magnuson were Roger Miner, Jose Cabranes, and Paul Crotty.
...Islam is a thrill kill machine...even if you are a Muslim in prison....old habits are hard to break.....
The Crips and the Bloods!
Mooselimb (red): Allah likes me better than you.
Mooselimb (blue): Allah likes me better.
Mooselimb (red): Shut the fuk up! I kill you!
Mooselimb (blue): You, shut the fuk up! I kill you too!
allah akbar
boom boom
End
Shouldn't we now pull our troops out of Iraq and send them to New York, so that they can prevent this Sunni/Shi'ite jihad and win their hearts and minds?
Since that won't happen, why not transfer these Shi'ite inmates to Hizbullah Central in Dearbornistan, where surely they'll get all the Shi'ite 'chaplains' that they want - and more!
Arrest more Shi'a, so that the numbers are more evenly balanced. Then leave them alone.
This a weakness in the Ummah that we should be taking advantage of. Instead of winning hearts and minds, let's just encourage inter-muslim fighting. When they are killing each other, it is easier for us to protect ourselves.
This would be a particularly sound strategy in Iraq, Afghanistan and Dearbornistan. Pull our troops to the borders and let em go. Then when the Sunni Arabs and the Shia Persians jump in, protect Israel, Europe and North America and enjoy the show.
I have a question on topic.
I know the reason behind the Sunni Shia schism. Is their anything religiously significant where they would have a need for seperate imans? As far as I know, the only difference is the bickering over the succession of Mohammed after his death.
@Elric66
They pulled my post. They're picking on me!
This is what we can expect in the camp of Islam if leaders would follow even part of what Hugh has written about many times.
Whenever we accede to their irrational and ridiculous demands (these are prisoners!!!!!!) we give them legitimacy and embolden them. If we tell them to shut up and obey the rules, and maybe suggest that they shouldn't have landed themselves in jail in the first place, we might not have to deal with these issues.
http://grizzlymountain.blogspot.com/
Shiite inmates, who make up less than 4% of the Muslims incarcerated here, have long reported religious persecution by the Sunni-dominated Muslim chaplaincy employed by the state.
..................................
Just let that sink in for a minute.
There are all sorts of tiny Protestant sects, especially in the US. Obviously, not all of these sects have pastors in the prisons. Yet when was the last time you heard of Christians claiming, not just non-accomodation, but actual "persecution"?
Either Shi'ites feel persecuted simply because they have to deal with Sunni chaplains, or else prison authorities need to keep a closer eye on the Imams they hire to represent the state.
Probably some of both.
No need to do anything.
As Condi says, they'll just have to learn to get along.
Sunni/Shia prison 'demands' . . .from the Religion of Perpetual Grievance:
The List of Things That Offend Muslims
http://amboytimes.typepad.com/the_amboy_times/2007/02/the_list_of_thi.html?cid=89129818#comments
Hey, this is America, the land of equal opportunity.
Everyone is equal, all religions are equal. So Hugh has the right idea arrest more Shia. It's unfair for the Shia to be so under represented in the prison system...besides it hurts their feelings to be rejected like that. Arresting more Shia is doing them a kindness, it brings them up to par with Sunnis, and gives them lots of time to visit with Allah. 'Arrestashia', it's the only decent thing to do...Lets start today...
Hugh:
Arrest more Shi'a, so that the numbers are more evenly balanced. Then leave them alone.
I go along with that with one modification:
Put 2 Shia + 2 Sunni per cell.
Redivide if any succeed in killing each other.
And of course the prisons and courts in Muslim countries aren't botherd by such concerns... must be nice.
Well, please do not forget that both sunni and shia DO AGREE that islam is a religion of peace.
They are only competing for the title of the most peace-loving sect of the most peace-loving religion. The sect which wipes out the rival sect will be declared the winner of the title.
Good luck to the contenders and let the best man (the more peace-loving) win (butcher the less peace-loving).
UK Infidel Lover:
Put 2 Shia + 2 Sunni per cell.
Good idea, but I think it needs a slight modfication:
first you put 2 Shia + 8 Sunni and after the dust settles you put 8 Shia with 2 Sunni. Then, again, the other way around and so on...
Do you see what I mean?
"Is their anything religiously significant where they would have a need for seperate imans?"
asked by Elric66
---------------------
Yes. They actually have very different beliefs. The Shi'a that we're talking about here (there are dozens of Shia subsects) are the Twelver Shia (Ithna-ansari) who are the majority in Iran, Iraq, and Lebanon. They have different "pillars" and even prostrate differently so they'd stand out in a congregation of Sunnis. They even recite the Shahada diferently saying "There is no god but Allah, Muhammed is his Prophet and Ali is his Iman."
There are also big differences in how to interpret the Quran with Shi'ite Mullahs being almost a priesthood. Also the Shia do not reject artwork like the Sunnis do. They'll often wear amulets with pictures of Ali, Muhammed, or Fatima.
In the past, this set the Shia very far apart from Sunnis and actually made them the more liberal of the Muslims. Sadly that began to change during the late Qajar dynasty in Iran and culminated with Khomeini who remade Twelver Shi'ism into the Jihadist reflection of Salafism that we see today.
The other Shia sects are much smaller and include on one side the Zaidis of Yemen who can be just as violent and oppresive as the twelvers and the Sunnis as well as other less-violent groups stemming from Sevener Shi'ism.
On the other extreme are the world's twenty million Ismaili Shias who reject Jihad, are virtual pacifists, have no mosques, are not required to make Hajj, believe in re-incarnation, and follow Rita Hayworth's stepson the Aga Khan as their infallible guide. Of course you are unlikely to ever find an Ismaili in prison except in Muslim countries where they are violently oppressed as heretics.
What about Alawites and the Druze? Are they also going to get seperate accomidations? Shia Islam is not uniform either; separate chaplains and prayer rooms should also be provided for Twelvers, Ismaili, and Kharijites right???
This whole episode really does demonstrate the inheritly political nature of Islam if the only difference in the religious service on fridays is how they fold their arms. The original divide between Sunni and Shia was over politics just as the tension between them now is over current events in the Middle East.
And seriously how come Shia are less than 4% of the Muslim population in New York prisons? Worldwide Shia are 15%. Guess all that $audi oil money is helping the Wahabists to gain a monopoly of Muslim converts in US prisons.
My ancestors came to America from Northern Ireland in the early 20th century to get away from this sectarian nonsense. They were not unusual. There are many people in America for precisely the same reason (including Robert's folks who left Turkey because of Muslim tolerance). Those people just couldn't take the low-IQ-club sectarian and "religious" nonsense anymore. This stuff has no place in America. We must not tolerate this.
thomas. h:
Do you see what I mean?
Yes I do. I think that is an improvement on what I suggested.
And seriously how come Shia are less than 4% of the Muslim population in New York prisons? Worldwide Shia are 15%. Guess all that $audi oil money is helping the Wahabists to gain a monopoly of Muslim converts in US prisons.
Another possibility for the discrepancy:
We are not admitting enough Shia into the US. If we let more people in, that prison population just might get larger.
Diversity! That's it. More Shia immigrants. Give more people an opportunity to experience New York prisons, so their fellow Shia won't feel so outnumbered. All because a few young kids took over an embassy a few decades ago, we've been favoring the Sunnis. Let's let bygones be bygones. Ahmadinejad: send us your imams. They are sorely needed in prison. Any Shia who want to experience life behind bars in America, come on down! You are needed to balance the scales. Call it one of those jobs Americans don't want to do.
"Shiite inmates have long demanded their own chaplains and a separate place to pray on Fridays"
Muslim prayer seems to invoke satan and provoke more violence. Maybe they should experiment by disallowing "prayer" to see if things improve and the violence dies down. Right!
When they are shedding their own blood...killing each other, I have a terrible time deciding which to cheer for.
When they are shedding their own blood...killing each other, I have a terrible time deciding which to cheer for.
When they are shedding their own blood...killing each other, I have a terrible time deciding which to cheer for.
@PMK
I am assuming we would not want to bother with them committing a crime or anything. Just march them off to prison as soon as they get off the boat. Tell them that is the welfare line! Or that is daru-Islam or what ever it is. They will be happy to go and get three squares and a place to sleep as well. If you think about it our prisons are better than most Islamic run countries or are like them in many ways. You just have to submit.
Isa 53:8
From prison and trial they led him away to his death. But who among the people realized that he was dying for their sins-that he was suffering their punishment?
عيسى 53:8
من السجن والمحاكمه التي جعلته بعيدا الى وفاته. ولكن الذين في صفوف الشعب يدرك تماما انه كان يموت من اجل خطايا - انه يعاني عقوبتهم؟
What about Ahmediya? Are they Shia or Sunni?
What about Ahmediya? Are they Shia or Sunni?
What about Ahmediya? Are they Shia or Sunni?
"What about Ahmediya? Are they Shia or Sunni?"
--- from a posting above
According to the Pakistani government, the Ahmadiya are not real Muslims, and must identify themselves as non-Muslims on official forms. Many Muslims outside Pakistan agree with this judgment. Ahmadis, who have conducted missionary work in Africa, frequently discover that those they have brought, through their soft ways, to Islam, are then further worked on by non-Ahmadis who move in for the kill, and transform those Ahmadi Muslims into the full and therefore dangerous faith. According to some reports, this is done simply by moving in, buying up Ahmadi mosques, replacing the clerics, and voila -- out with the Ahmadis, in with the Wahhabis who are now paying the bills.
Perhaps Naseem would care to add a few words on how Ahmadiyya "Muslims" are treated in Pakistan.
Islam = Repackaged Serial Killers
....only sweeter!
It's my guess that these are Black American converts acting out some fictional Islamic heritage, and that none of them has the slightest understanding of the theological or historical differences betweem Sunni and Shiite Muslims.
Most likely, this is old fashion gang warfare over turf, except that instead of calling themselves bloods or crips, they call themserlves Sunni or Shiite.
I could be wrong, but....
Gotta refine the new system of Jim Crow the Islamaniacs demand. First they want things apart from us stinky infidels, then they want further things apart from their loathsome co-cultists. None of this would be an issue at all if we would just exile ALL jihdists regardless of branch (and their infidel enablers) to a desert island. Then they can practice Jim Crow to their hearts' content.
Bush has just called for elections in Pakistan.
Do you want to laugh out loud ... watch this trash! PBS you suck!
Not one mention of the many attrocities, persecution, and dhimmi status of non- Muslims in Spain.
opening video
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid988221586
Home page
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid988221586
Homepage sorry
http://www.upf.tv/upf06/Films/CitiesofLightTheRiseandFallofIslamicSpain/tabid/78/Default.aspx
Gotta keep 'em separated, huh? Creating separate, safe enclaves so that they can recruit, indoctrinate and galvanize their hatred for each other and all infidels. And, so, in order to provide them with the opportunity to practice their religion, we also provide cover and a buffer zone to insure that their religious subdivisions flourish within the walls of the prison.
So, when they get out they will be fully indoctrinated and fully convinced that their religion entitles them to hate the other branch of Islam and all other religions. The government will make sure that their prejudices are sustained and reinforced.
Why are there 7,000+ converts? Because Islam is seen as some kind of refuge for African Americans who are disenchanted with Christianity as a construct of white America. They have seen pictures of a very white, Anglo Christ and believe this to be the case. And, they have bought into Islam as the answer to this alienation, as Rational has pointed out in his post.
Who is going to defuse this ticking time bomb of angry prisoners embracing the religion of hate and violence? Which scholar is bold and plain-spoken enough to pen a book debunking the myth of Islam as a refuge for African Americans and the downtrodden? Who will take up the task of informing these prisoners that Islam was a religion of slavers and continues to be a religion of slavery? Where is the redemption, the mercy, the compassion, the healing power of Islam? Cut off the hand of thief, pluck out the eye of the coveter, stone the adulterer and adulteress, punish the rape victim, protect the rapist(s), behead the offender. No punishment can be severe enough for the least infraction against Ba*allah.
What in hell is wrong with this government? We've never had to worry about Baptist terrorism, Catholic terrorism, Lutherian terrorism, Hindu terrorism. But here we are, never knowing when some "peaceful" Muslim is going to discover the true teachings of Islam and take out a couple dozen innocent people in the name of Allah.
This government has no business gambling with the lives of American citizens.
Stop Muslim immigration before it's to late. It's to late for France, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy, but it's not to late for us. Why are we waiting until it is?
One of the most brilliant realizations and policies of the Reagan administration was that as long as Iran and Iraq were fighting each other, they would constitute a lesser threat to everyone else. History has borne this out, since shortly after the Iran-Iraq war ended, both found new enemies.
When Sunnis and Shiites are channeling their Islamic jihad impulses into fighting each other rather than everyone else, humanity as a whole is safer.
Jihad is a virtual imperative in Islam. It will either come out as intersectarian/interethnic/intertribal/interparty/inter(whatever) warfare between Muslims or else as warfare against humanity as a whole (e.g. all non-Muslims). The bottom line is, if Muslims are not fighting themselves, they pose an existential threat to everyone else.
There is a strategic lesson here.
Taliban Ideology for non-Bushies ("islam is peace"):
http://amreekan.wordpress.com/
Islam is terror; muslims are terrorists.
In Pakistan, Ahmadiyah have the legal status as a "non Muslim minority." Said status is declared in the Constitution of the Islamic Constitution of Pakistan. Said status was established after Paki clerics deferred the issue to Wahabi Sheiks in the Saud terror entity. President Zia jumped hoops for his masters.
Finally, employment for Dr. Rice after her well-documented failure as Secretary of State under the willful Dhimmi of the year front-runner, GWB.
She would make a great prison counselor, with her retort regarding the historical Sunni / Shia rift with the now famous, "They are just going to have to get over that" bile that that she has put forth.
With Condi, I personally believe it was not intentional ignorance, yet ignorance nonetheless.
Sad.
Islam, the religion of warfare, continues to spread SLAVERY and HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS with impunity because America and the nations of the world turn a blind eye veiling the evil that continues in places like MAURITANIA.
If I were an African American today (and, I could be descended from an African forbear), I would be screaming this outrage from the Sunday pulpit, and the rooftops and in the Congress and at the UN and anywhere anyone might be listening so that Islam and SLAVERY would be inextricably linked in newsreports and banner headlines.
Slavery in Modern Times by Shirlee Newman.
http://www.aaregistry.com/african_american_history/1529/Slavery_today_yes_it_is_still_happening
I believe that as time goes on, their may be riots in prisons between Sunni and Shia prisoners. That could be another problem that prison staff will have to deal with.
Muslims killing each other in prison? Why does that fall into the lower half of my priorities? Hmm....
My only complaint is they need to do it faster.
Christian --
That's a very good point, and prison officials would be wise to take necessary steps to prevent this from happening because there is so much tension and hatred between these two Islamic factions.
Where Islam is -- riots follow.
Many thanks, Provoslavni, for that informative post.
I couldn't resist.
From Another side of Bob Dylan 1964
A self-ordained professor's tongue
Too serious to fool
Spouted out that liberty
Is just equality in school
"Equality," I spoke the word
As if a wedding vow.
Ah, but I was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now.
He got it, shame the rest of us didn't.
"Arrest more Shi'a, so that the numbers are more evenly balanced. Then leave them alone.
Posted by: Hugh """
...and we should arm both sides...just like we have done in the past.....in one way or the other....
"Shiite inmates have long demanded their own chaplains and a separate place to pray on Fridays
....They have a place...it is called a cell...and they can face any direction they choose...
....They have a place...it is called a cell...and they can face any direction they choose...
Posted by: exsgtbrown at November 8, 2007 7:13 AM
Aww, exsgtbrown! You beat me to it!
Oh no, Islamic apologists will be losing sleep over this one.
Well, here's my proposal. It involves raising taxes, but for a just cause,why not.
Let's build a sunni prison staffed by armed shiite guards.
Simultaneously, build a shiite prison staffed by (who else) armed sunni guards.
I'll leave the rest to your imigination.
Heck, save the taxes-we're taxed enough as it is.
Just let 100 hungry pigs run loose in the prison compound every time they act up...
...the inmates will be VERY mellow 24/7...and the pigs don't cost much to feed...lol
Or if that fails...here's a sure fire solution.
Hire people who lost family/friends on 9/11 as guards.
They'd LOVE to "watch" them, and some will work for free as the...errr, "fringe benefits" would be well worth it.