As the Munich -- uh, that is, Annapolis -- conferences approaches. The huge unrecognized fallacy of this conference is that the Palestinians will ever be satisfied with a smaller Israel. The only Israel that will satisfy them, because of the jihad ideology, is no Israel at all. Fantasy-Based Policymaking Update, by Aaron Klein for WorldNetDaily.com (thanks to Doug):
JERUSALEM – At the request of the Palestinians, the U.S. has been holding back from Israel reports critical of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas' purported attempts to fight terrorism in the West Bank, according to diplomatic sources familiar with the reports.The U.S. has been closely monitoring Abbas' implementation of commitments to fight armed groups in the West Bank ahead of this week's Annapolis summit. In line with understandings, State Department and U.S. security representatives were to share their observations with Israel while the U.S. also monitors Israeli commitments to dismantle anti-terror road blocks and to take initial steps toward bulldozing what are termed illegal outposts, or Jewish structures built in the West Bank without government permits.
While the U.S. has been reporting to the Palestinians on Israel's actions on the ground ahead of Annapolis, according to informed diplomatic sources, it has withheld some State Department reports critical of Abbas' Fatah security forces purported fight against terror.
[...]
On Wednesday, Olmert and Abbas will meet with Bush about specific ways to carry out the declarations presented at the conference. According to Israeli sources, the three will discuss creating a Palestinian state before Bush leaves office in January 2009.
jcom972 wrote: Ummm, your mental projection is showing...>>>
George W. Bush claims to be a bible-believing, born again Christian who prays to God for moral guidance on a daily basis. You tell me where the man stands. Bear with me:
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;
And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
Gen 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
Gen 12:7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land."
"I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.
"I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showplatforms.php?platindex=R1992
Republican Party Platform of 1992
...We oppose the creation of an independent Palestinian state. Nor will we support the creation of any political entity that would jeopardize Israel's security.
http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf
The Broader Middle East and North Africa
(Page 37)
We support President Bush’s vision of two states, Israel and Palestine......
Republicans agree with President Bush that Israel’s plan to remove all settlements.....is a courageous step toward peace...
Joe 3:1 "For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
"I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land."
Mat 12:30 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
jcom972, if Bush is not an enemy of the God of Israel, what is he?
jcom972 wrote: Ummm, your mental projection is showing...>>>
George W. Bush claims to be a bible-believing, born again Christian who prays to God for moral guidance on a daily basis. You tell me where the man stands. Bear with me:
Gen 12:1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;
And I will make you a great nation, And I will bless you, And make your name great; And so you shall be a blessing;
Gen 12:3 And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."
Gen 12:7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said, "To your descendants I will give this land."
"I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.
"I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." (Gen chapter 17)
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/showplatforms.php?platindex=R1992
Republican Party Platform of 1992
...We oppose the creation of an independent Palestinian state. Nor will we support the creation of any political entity that would jeopardize Israel's security.
http://www.gop.com/media/2004platform.pdf
The Broader Middle East and North Africa
(Page 37)
We support President Bush’s vision of two states, Israel and Palestine......
Republicans agree with President Bush that Israel’s plan to remove all settlements.....is a courageous step toward peace...
Joe 3:1 "For behold, in those days and at that time, When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem,
"I will gather all the nations And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat. Then I will enter into judgment with them there On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel, Whom they have scattered among the nations; And they have divided up My land."
Mat 12:30 "He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
jcom972, if Bush is not an enemy of the God of Israel, what is he?
It's not surprising they've witheld information critical of Fateh.
It's Saudi which is running the show in Annapolis and they're calling the shots. Bush and Rice are just their pet poodles which are trained to take orders from anyone smelling of oil.
As with all the so-called middle east "peace" conferences, Israel will be forced to give concessions, and the Palestinians will be demanding everything, but will never stop killing Israeli men, women and children.
The article also said that Gen Dayton was training Islamic Jihad members.... training them to kill Jews!
The Brigades, together with the Islamic Jihad terror group, has taken responsibility for every suicide bombing in Israel the past three years and has carried out thousands of shootings and rocket attacks against Jewish civilian population centers.
Lt. Gen. Keith Dayton, U.S. security coordinator for the Palestinian territories, has been closely monitoring the actions of Fatah forces in the West Bank, particularly Nablus, a city that was to serve as a litmus test for Abbas' ability to impose law and order in the West Bank. Dayton heads the U.S. team to train and arm Fatah and was the principal architect of a U.S. plan to fund Fatah forces.
"The huge unrecognized fallacy of this conference is that the Palestinians will ever be satisfied with a smaller Israel. The only Israel that will satisfy them, because of the jihad ideology, is no Israel at all."
This about sums it up - you may as well exhume Neville Chanberlain for this one.
The article also said that Gen Dayton was training Islamic Jihad members.... training them to kill Jews!>>>
When are you people going to figure it out. George W. Bush is with America's enemies.
Bush, eight days after 9/11 atrocities. In a mosque:
"Like the good folks (jihadists -- monk) standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks. And so were Muslims all across the world. Both Americans and Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslims in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens.
"These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith. And it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.
"The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Koran, itself: In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil. For that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule.
"The face of terror is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace. They represent evil and war.....
Bush, Sept. 20, 2001 speech before a joint session of Congress:
"The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam...... (Applause.)
"The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying, in effect, to hijack Islam itself. The enemy of America is not our many Muslim friends;it is not our many Arab friends. Our enemy is a radical network of
terrorists....
According to Israeli sources, the three will discuss creating a Palestinian state before Bush leaves office in January 2009.
from the article
One question I have is: how do Gaza and the West Bank combine to form a single state without Israel being forced to provide transit between the two sections?
The ultimate result would be that a) Israel is destroyed as the two sides converge on it to "unite" their country once again or b) Gaza becomes the new Bangladesh.
pmk, Hamas will take over the West Bank and take all the land between W. Bank and Gaza, leaving Israel a lot smaller, but divided.
IF there are agreements made, you can guarantee that there won't be much let of Israel...
Not only do Bush & Condi plan on sorting this complex issue out in a mere 24 hours, they've also managed to cock-up the festivities by the Brigade of Midshipman prior to the all-important Army-Navy game.
Ok, try this scenario...
you're in a card game, with very high stakes...
You just got dealt a trump card, or two, or three;
Trump cards that could prove devastating to an opponent at the right time which would not only neutralize his hand, but outright destroy him...to do so too early could still prove fruitful (but could also prove a waste of time & effort), but could also not attain as desired effect as waiting until it's time to "call 'em".
So the decision is...
Do you use them right away, or do you use them later on for what you know would prove maximum yield/effect, and thus, a clear and decisive win?
Think about it.
you're in a card game, with very high stakes
You just got dealt a trump card, or two, or three;...>>>
I do not know what relevance this has to what Mr. Bush is attempting to do to Israel and to her security. I look at these things in terms of black and white; good and evil.
"You are either with us or you are with the (jihadist) terrorists."
What Bush has already done to Israel and is attempting to do to Israel is evil. In my book, that makes President Bush evil.
Does any one care, or dare, to give an opinion about the source for for 2,000 years of anti-Semitism, two thousand years of suspicion, loathing, and outright hatred? The clue is 2,000 years, not 1,400 years.
Pelayo wrote: "Does any one care, or dare, to give an opinion about the source for for 2,000 years of anti-Semitism, two thousand years of suspicion, loathing, and outright hatred? The clue is 2,000 years, not 1,400 years."
You are speaking of Christian anti-Semitism. Aren't you? Do you dare to give an opinion about Mr. Bush's disposition toward the Jews? Toward the Jewish state?
Monk, Bush's support for Israel appears rather soft. I think he is more concerned with having his name placed on a treaty than the security of Israel. Bush is trying to make too many people happy. I am especially concerned that he is trying to make the Saudis happy.
If Bush is wants Israel to give up the West Bank, then he is selling out Israel.
Pelayo, you asked a question about 2,000 years of anti-Semitism. Did I answer your question properly, or were you looking for a different answer?
Of course Bush wants Israel to give the jihadists the West Bank. That is the whole idea of a Palestinian Muslim state, in Judea, Samaria, Gaza and east Jerusalem. This is Bush's road map to bring about his two state solution.
Monk, at 2:29 you asked another question. Of course I was making a statement about Christian anti-Semitism.
I am not going to use the word evil in describing Pres. Bush. Perhaps he wants to be on the same platform (pedestal?)with Clinton and Carter - credit for brokering a deal that will bring "peace in the Middle East." I believe that Bush does not really have a clue about the deviousness that comes from Muslims.
Whether Bush is a card carrying anti-Semite remains to be seen. His religion certainly has given him the basis. (I hope that his Sunday School teachers had different opinions than mine did.) I'll reserve my opinion until he writes a book, ala Carter.
Pelayo, you said, "If Bush is wants Israel to give up the West Bank, then he is selling out Israel."
You are not going to use the word evil in describing president Bush. I will then. Is selling out an ally evil? Bush is selling out an ally that is fighting the same enemy we are fighting, why can't we use the word evil to describe him?
I believe Mr. Bush does have a clue about the deviousness that comes from Muslims.
Mr. Bush and his family have sold themselves out to wealthy Saudi oil princes. In another era, Bush would be hung for treason.
Bush himself is devious. His every word about our enemy is full of deception and duplicity. Mr. Bush does not have an honest bone in his Crawford, Texas body as concerns our enemy. He repeatedly lies to the public about the enemy and its intentions. I don't believe he does not have a clue.
Bush calls criminals and murderers men dedicated to peace. I call this evil.
Monk, I will agree in this respect: Ignorance, stupidity, and wishful thinking can lead people to do things that have an evil result.
Pelayo: I asked my Jesus-loving, Christian friend the following question:
"Is Bush a Jew-Hater?"
He wrote the following:
Lets judge not by words but by actions.
Of the hundreds of acts such as supplying weapons and training and millions if not billions all after the Palestinians have proven their intent to destroy Israel.
Lets say I was the one stealing what little land that the Jewish people have and giving it
to killers of Jews who continue to kill Jews ,what would you call me ?
You only have two choices because he is not misguided or stupid. He knows what he is doing.
1. A friend of Israel
2. Someone who by his actions proves he hates Israel and the Jews.
summary:
The actions of an enemy of Israel, and not of a friend. I would never think of even doing any of these things to Israel would you?
Monk, I would not do what you suggest, but I am not listening to a bunch of clueless advisors.
The only thing that we seem to disagree on is the motivation. Does Bush want that prize with the dynamite inventor's name on it?
Let's suspend this particular discussion until we find out the results from Annapolis and just how much influence Bush had. If I realize that Bush has malicious intentions, I'll let you know without hesitation.
I try to avoid the word evil because to me it implies a supernatural influence. That's what I thought you meant.
"I try to avoid the word evil because to me it implies a supernatural influence. That's what I thought you meant."
No, that is not what I meant. I am a Jew. We do not believe the universe is a dualism; good vs. evil. God is omnipotent.
Evil is part of the nature of man, as is good. Man has the ability to do both good and evil. We are to rule over our inclination to do evil. Evil-doers do not rule over their inclination to do and say evil.
Is Mr. Bush doing evil to Israel? I say, "Yes."
Does Bush say evil things about Israel and our enemies? I say "Yes."
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/779
Mr. Palestine?
November 26, 2007
Some thoughts on the eve of the Annapolis meeting:
"Mr Palestine"?
Called the best friend Israel ever had in the White House, George W. Bush is, in my view, worrisomely over-confident. He believes he has discovered the solution to a highly complex and subtle century-old conflict. But I expect major problems.
The cover of the Nov. 24 Economist shows a picture of Bush under a bold headline that reads "Mr Palestine." The subtitle deems him "The only man who could make it happen" – with "it," of course, being a Palestinian state. The title is especially provocative when one recalls that for many years Yasir Arafat was the one known as "Mr. Palestine."
But the nickname is apt, for soon after becoming president in 2001, Bush indicated an intention to sponsor the creation of a Palestinian state, this being his solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Since then, he has steadily made that his goal.
I have often criticized him for this, in particular after his major June 2002 speech. At present, I worry that his erroneous course will culminate in a misbegotten and perhaps disastrous parley at Annapolis. I foresee no good coming of this meeting and what follows it.
At best, circumstances will render it harmless, another forgotten "peace" gambit, like those of the the Geneva Accords, the Quartet, the Roadmap, the Mitchell Report, the Tenet Understandings, the Abdullah Plan, and the Zinni, Wolfensohn, Ward, and Dayton missions (and who knows how many plans the world and I have forgotten).
At worst (to quote myself from a month ago), "I see a possible crisis in U.S.-Israel relations of unprecedented proportions – worse than 1975 or even 1957." Such a crisis would not only harm Israel, but also the United States, and the Middle East as a whole. (November 26, 2007)
Whatever the motivation may be, the result could be the same.
Let's see what happens on Wednesday.
Don't waste your time on hyperkook ideologues, pelayo...
I called his accusation of Bush being a "jew-hater" (from another thread) a lie that it is, and he's bent (emotion-over-logic). That's what his rant's all about & he has no backup. Now it's all diversionary and evasion of the core which he can't get over.
Let him rant...
jcom972 wrote: ...you said he was a jew-hater, which is a lie...he is a lot of things, and even pulls some really really stupid stunts, but "jew-hater"? no...>>>>
George W. Bush's savior said "he who is not with me is against me."
I've given you the prophecy; God's word.
Answer my question. Is Bush with Israel or against Israel jcom972? Is Bush with his Jewish savior or against him?
Is Bush with God's people --- faithful Jews and Christians who love God's word --- or is he against God's people?
Ah, echoes from thew other thread...lovely.
And I said, your diversionaries won't get you out of your lie.
You bore false witness against another...and you cannot dispel that.
You assume a great deal, and ASSumptions are the mother of all F**kups...You brought it up to start with.
YOU have NO room asking ANYone ANYthing...you lost that priviledge the moment you bore false witness...
according to the same scriptural evasion you have hypocritically sought to divert from your own infantile absurdity and yes, LIE of another.
Criticizm is one thing, but calling another something they're not, especially when you have less than zero proof, only your own hyperemotional hyperideology, because someone doesn't do something the way YOU expect them to (which is worse than malignant narcissism & beyond arrogance)
Until then...get a clue, and a life, kid.
You don't rate the big leagues.
Your reality check bounced...end of story.
jcom972, I asked my Jesus-loving, Christian friend the following question:
"Is Bush a Jew-Hater?"
He wrote the following:
Lets judge not by words but by actions.
Of the hundreds of acts such as supplying weapons and training and millions if not billions all after the Palestinians have proven their intent to destroy Israel.
Lets say I was the one stealing what little land that the Jewish people have and giving it
to killers of Jews who continue to kill Jews ,what would you call me ?
You only have two choices because he is not misguided or stupid. He knows what he is doing.
1. A friend of Israel
2. Someone who by his actions proves he hates Israel and the Jews.
summary:
The actions of an enemy of Israel, and not of a friend. I would never think of even doing any of these things to Israel would you?
*yawn*
I don't see sources conclusively proving the false witness you made of another...not even circumstantials.
Way too little for morality lessons now, and way too late for the CYA backup, either.
Like I said, you can't back it up...and your pompuous arrogance, as if he's supposed to do it your way, as if being representative of the entire community, which you're obviously NOT, that's beyond chutzpah, since you obviously rate that even less than the pit you dug for yourself.
Summary: you're a liar who bore false witness against another...get...over...it...kid.
Criticism is one thing...your words went beyond reason-they were hyperpartisan ideology, and warrant no respectful response at all.
Never bring a knife to a gunfight, kid.
And here's a little tip for ya so ya won't get called on such things again...be glad I*'m being nice about it...
had ya called him, say,
an idiot,
foolish,
absurd,
you'd have plenty to back it up with-then again, you'd also have very little, if any contrary responses...few would've bothered with it.
...but calling someone a "jew hater" without any solid evidence, that's a pretty tall tale,
and not normally worthy of a response-save that of a well-deserved ego-trimming.
And I am not a "bush-apologist" (which you also tried to pull, and I laughed at), only making sure it's also known the alternative would have been far worse...not defending him, just shooting down the gotcha goons roaming the 'net, because what they wish for woulda been far worse.
(He was not my choice for Prez, Joe Lieberman was, as I am not a Republican)
He's a lot of things...and even pulled a lot of stupid things even his peers would consider moronic, but a "jew hater"? That's beyond the pale. I(t's also an outright lie.
No...he's no jew-hater...dhimmi jimmy carter-
now THAT's a jew-hater!
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/jimmy-carters-war/
and that link is what's called e-v-i-d-e-n-c-e.
I'm doing you a favor you don't really deserve, so listen up...and put a leash on the ego-it only hurts your cause.
Be glad I'm cuttin' you some slack.
Now go rethink your M.O...and remember:
words mean things.
Jcom972, my posting of 6:45 was my way of bailing out of the discussion.
George W. Bush's legacy may be that he took a historic opportunity to fight jihad and F-ed it up. Pres. Rudy Giuliani's legacy will be that he cleaned up W.'s mess and did what W. should have done. We don't need dogmatism. We don't need simplistic slogans that bizarrely are not just slogans but translate into half-baked strategies. The whole leftist idea that W. is pulled by brilliant puppet masters is fundamentally flawed. The whole administration F-ed up.
Why didn't we stop at Afghanistan and built the world's largest military base? That would have kept Saddam and the Iranians shaking in fear. If embarking on something as risky as Iraq, why not some West Point planning? We had nothing of the sort.
A domino effect of democracy was always a naive idea, but if it were done to get oil flowing from Iraq so as to weaken the hold of the real and true and biggest Satan, Saudi Arabia, on global oil prices - and so weaken Saudi Arabia's ability to wage global jihad (through its oil-wealth-funded proxies), perhaps it would have been worth it.
But Iraq has been a disaster. Bogged down there, Iran has been emboldened. And even Saudi Arabia, the 900 x 900-lb gorilla of jihad and Islamic imperialism, would be in no position to lecture the West on its "mistakes" and "weakness" in the war on terror.
The strategic goal of a sensible W. administration post-9/11 should have been to weaken Saudi Arabia, which any idiot knows is the lynchpin.
But no...
At least Giuliani refused Saudi "Prince" Alwaleed's blood money. He has principles and can see that it is Saudi Arabia that is world peace enemy numero uno. Since we didn't have Giuliani, the real 9/11 moral leader, as President on 9/11, I hope and pray for the sake of the West, we can have him as the 43rd President of the US.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,312968,00.html
(not that I care, since anything's better that HITlery & the soros' yearlykook clan)
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4FE2F662-7CE5-4666-BB89-3F923E3EE4A8
for some fog-clearing
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=B70FBAFB-CFAE-4B44-AB4B-6B047FA9CC02
They were TARFU'd, not FUBAR'd...and even that's changed now, which is why the media predictably doesn't report it...
...of course, those are another thread entirely.
"And I am not a "bush-apologist" (which you also tried to pull, and I laughed at), only making sure it's also known the alternative would have been far worse...not defending him."
Of course you are a Bush apologist. Read your own words.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Diplomacy/12403.htm
Analysis: Olmert being maneuvered to allow US to be judge of core issues
By Israel Insider staff November 26, 2007
Pharoah Loves his Jweish Slaves
smoothwords - Florida, U.S.A
11/27/2007 02:12 IT Israel has placed all of her faith is the chariots of Egypt and now the outcome of her Idolarty and forgetting Hashem. It's going to get ugly for Israel because they placed their hope and faith in Evil Men and ignored the WORD of God.
You will no longer be allowed your rebellion against Hashem and bowing to your false idol and pimp in Washington.
No peace comes from Washington, only great misery, war, death and destruction will come to you from your whoredom with Washington.
LOL...look in a mirror on "read your own words".
Oh, that's right...you can't, lest you be forced to face the fact of your own hypocrisy, stupidity & hyperkook ideology...not that it's any surprise.
Ok, fair enough...
Oh, first ya call Bush a "jew hater" & can't back it up, then hide behind scripture to conceal your own hypocrisy, (which solves nothing, and doesn't dismiss the lie you made bearing false witness against another)...classic hilarity.
Thanks for proving my points of you.
So unless you can comprehend the "bearing false witness" bit, don't lecture on scripture as you only make yourself even more hypocritical...not that you'll comprehend that either. But do continue your ad nauseum diatribes...I find such flowers of foolishness refreshingly hilarious.
As I said to start with...knock yourself out.
lol
;-)
JCOM972: "YOU have NO room asking ANYone ANYthing...you lost that priviledge the moment you bore false witness..."
George W. Bush has done criminal things to the Jewish State. He is therefore a criminal. He's evil and so are you for defending him.
LOL...ah, here comes the hyperkook ideology...since obviously rational discussion doesn't work against the false witness this liar told.
Oh, it just doesn't get any more comedic than this.
LOL
jcom972 wrote: "LOL...ah, here comes the hyperkook LOL," LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL......>>>>>
LOL= laugh out loud?
"When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, The foolish man either rages or laughs (out loud), and there is no rest." (Poverbs 29:9)
This is found in the book of Proverbs jcom972, and so much more. You might read it:
"A fool's lips bring strife, And his mouth calls for blows.
"A fool's mouth is his ruin, And his lips are the snare of his soul.
"Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity Than he who is perverse in speech and is a fool.
"Keeping away from strife is an honor for a man, But any fool will quarrel.
"Do not speak in the hearing of a fool, For he will despise the wisdom of your words.
"Like snow in summer and like rain in harvest, So honor is not fitting for a fool.
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Or you will also be like him.
Diversion, diversion diversion...and evasion, too.
Once again, no effective response by this comedic assclown who got nailed for bearing false witness against another, yet cannot prove it...and must commit even further hypocrisy by hiding behind scripture, which doesn't work either.
I love it when hypocrites get nailed to the wall, and have nothing left but evasion, diversion, and distortion...to hide the fact he can't answer to the lie he started in the first place.
Classic malignant narcissism, too.
Keep on beatin' that dead-horse, hypocrite...
It just doesn't get any better than this!
Checkmate...once again.
;-)
Fine post, WW. This paragraph stands out
"But Iraq has been a disaster. Bogged down there, Iran has been emboldened. And even Saudi Arabia, the 900 x 900-lb gorilla of jihad and Islamic imperialism, would be in no position to lecture the West on its "mistakes" and "weakness" in the war on terror."
The Iraq debacle has been a boon for both Iran and KSA. The two big winners.
http://www.geocities.com/media_maccabee/Turnspeak.html
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=/Nation/archive/200711/NAT20071112a.html
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/a/2007/11/16/notes111607.DTL
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110010861
;-)