In this news article, one more of those young Muslims claiming that "Islamophobia" explains mistrust of Muslims and of Islam, and if only we "learned about Islam from Muslims themselves," we would think differently. He is, in other words, full of the usual nonsense.
Of course we do "learn from Muslims themselves" whenever we read, and reread, the Qur'an, especially the 100-odd "Jihad" verses (see the Calcutta Qur'an Petition), and hundreds of Hadith, and the Sira. They tell us all we need to know about Muhammad, revered by Muslims as uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, but appearing to many of us as something quite different in his own words and deeds. And we "learn from Muslims themselves" when some of those Muslims become ex-Muslims, and defect -- like Wafa Sultan and Nonie Darwish and Ibn Warraq and Ayaan Hirsi Ali -- from the Army of Islam.
And we "learn from Muslims themselves" when we read what Muslim commentators and theologians wrote about the duty of Jihad. Some of the most important such commentators have been collected to form part of the contents of The Legacy of Jihad, a useful sourcebook compiled by Andrew Bostom.
And we "learn from Muslims themselves" whenever we turn on the radio, or television, or read what has just happened in Khartoum, or Karachi, or in a thousand places where Muslims cry out for someone to be killed. And often, in Dar al-Islam, someone is killed by others more fervent in their Islam. And there is no prospect of it stopping.
Yes, we already do "learn from Muslims themselves." And the offer to attend some predictable outreaching Muslim or Mosque Open House sticks in the craw, for taqiyya-and-tu-quoque just won't do anymore. They would have sufficed five years or especially ten years ago. But not now. And not ever again.
The site www.faithfreedom.org is one to be recommended to those who would like a view of Islam from its defectors, just as one would have learned most about Communism and the KGB (or the NKVD, or the Cheka) and the Comintern, from defectors. Why are ex-Muslims are not consulted? Why don’t the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. have them on the payroll? Why they are not brought in to lecture on how Muslims view the world, or the practice of taqiyya and kitman, and the really very repetitive means by which the nature of Islam is hidden from inspection, through taqiyya and tu quoque, selective quotation, misinterpretation, ignoring of abrogation, and even a little overlooking of the Hadith and the Sira, so that only the Qur'an is discussed? Who can explain all of this better to that Innocent Creature, an FBI or CIA employee, than an ex-Muslim?
Meanwhile, we are told by our leaders and our journalists that all Muslims yearn for is integration and acceptance. Then every holiday season, we hear again about some imam or other who has forbidden his flock to wish the Infidels well in their celebrations. There is something distinctly un-Fredrogersish about this insistence on not wishing Infidel neighbors well on their holidays, or indeed at any other time, even extending to not "first" saying hello.
"Won't you, won't you be my neighbor?" does not exactly sound like a theme song welcome on al-Jazeera. More appealing, apparently, are all those children's shows where a cute little boy or girl sings a song about how he, or she, "wants to be a suicide-bomber" and "kill Jews" -- but Christians, or "Crusaders," will also do nicely.
Fred Rogers would not know what to make of Islam. But in him it is forgivable. It is not forgivable, however, in C.I.A. agents (the childlike, and worrisomely stupid Michael Scheuer, or in high officials of the American government, who really need to get cracking in their study of Islam, and stop accepting taqiyya-and-tu-quoque, or the Peter-Bechtold-John-Esposito school of blah, or what the uomini d'onore of MESA Nostra have been telling their wiseguys to make everyone believe about Islam, and they'd better, otherwise vaffanculo, goombah, and worse.
Instead, they should "learn from Muslims themselves."
Bravo, Hugh. Exactly right.
And there is no prospect of it stopping.
Yes, bravo. Your courage and erudition and thoughtfulness and integrity: I hope our audience for them does not stop either, anytime soon.
Whatever the point of existence might be, it surely cannot be the additional suffering and stupidity inflicted by jihad.
What is even more infuriating than the idea that we should learn about Islam from “Muslims themselves,” is the underlying presumption that we're all dying to learn about it. Isn't that one of the points of the "Islam Is Peace" campaign, to help us "understand what (the Muslim) community wants the world to hear?" You see, we poor, deprived infidels need Islam, and Muslims, brandishing swords or baklava--it matters not, which--are eager to help us.
Frankly, I'm with Hugh. You've got to admire Robert's "enduring fascination" with all things Muslim, but Islam simply bores me to sleep. I mean, it astonishes even me how much I've managed to learn about it when, really, I couldn't care less. If it weren't for the jihad du jour and "Muslims themselves" telling me in clear terms they want me dead, I'm pretty certain I'd know about as much about Islam as I know about astrophysics.
'Why are ex-Muslims are not consulted? Why don’t the C.I.A. and the F.B.I. have them on the payroll?'
This is politically inept and doesn't work. Far better to let ex-Muslims do it for free and be above partisan suspicion. Then the evidence is objective and 'out there'.
Nobody controls Islam. Modern Muslims aren't being any more inconsistant than any other faith group if they cherry-pick the bits of their faith that provide them with a more liberal benevolent inspiration and leave out the ugly backward bits. There are bits of the bible I don't agree with, or heavy Christian doctrine like original sin. The faith is what the faithful decides it is at any moment in time. Right now the Muslim faithful are going through a process of 'rationalisation'. This includes ugly literalist Islamist nutters like Jamaat al Islami and Hizbut Tahrir (a real concern, I agree) but also progressives like Ed Husain.
I agree the global centre of gravity is not on the progressive liberal side. Nor is this likely to change any time soon. It will take at least 40 years. But you can't ignore progressive developments in the west like Husain or Irshad Manji.
Ali Sina, writing in http://www.news.faithfreedom.org , explained how he came to be an apostate: When the Iranian hostage situation arose, he felt ashamed as a Persian. Then, when he came to realize that Islam was behind the shamefulness, he realized that it was Islam, and not anything Persian, that had wrecked his country. Ali claims that Islam has been bad for others as well; for example the Arabs, prior to Islam, were known for their tolerance. Today, he is a brilliant exponent of Persian patriotism and runs a dynamite website.
The one thing I've learned from that bunch is that they are frightening in the extreme. And that's just from reading their Koran-everything else merely reinforces that view as far as I'm concerned.
Progressives in all their degrees should be absolutely mortified with Islam. The two just about exist on opposite ends of the pole.
It appears some are incapable of learning anything, no matter who is giving the lesson. Nor how simple the material is presented.
When "See Spot Run" does not make a connection...
I have mentioned before (to diabolical derision) that we should all inundate the government with letters (brief, if possible) telling them what we know about Islam.
I recently wrote both Senators and my Congressman and guess what? My Congressman sent a handwritten note (on a card not paid for by taxpayers!) that he studies the problem extensively and agreed with everything I said! He also said Islam is our enemy by their choice, not by ours!
So what, you might say, your Congressman already knows the facts so what good did a letter to him do? Do you have any idea how it boosted my spirits to know that at least ONE CONGRESSMAN knows the truth? He'll talk to others!!! Try it and see.
Yes,
Let's learn from Muslims themselves.
Not from Ibrahiim Hooper or Nihad Awad or our Muslim neighbors at 'Get to know Islam' events at the local masjid, but from mindless Muslims who don't pretend Islam is a religion of peace (and couldn't spell hypocrisy if they had to).
From yesterday's World Net Daily:
"We call on our Sudanese brothers to prepare themselves with explosive belts and not allow this bitch to see the light of day," said Muhammad Abdel-Al, spokesman and a senior leader of the Gaza-based Popular Resistance Committees terror group.
"I pray to Allah that I could have the opportunity to go to Sudan with my brothers to slaughter this unbeliever Christian. We ask the Sudanese to execute her in hardest way. Any execution must be public, she must be stoned or fired on and the punishment must be harsh," Abdel-Al told Klein.
Responding to reports Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir is contemplating pardoning the 54-year old Gibbons, Abdel-Al asked the Sudanese government "not to give into the international and Christian-Crusader pressure to set this bitch free."
"[Gibbons] proves all their titles of human rights and any other activities [Westerners] do in our countries are only ways to hide the real goals of these people – they are all missionaries or Western intelligence agents. With all the tolerance that Islam has, we must not bear any of this activity."
[...]
Another militant, Abu Abdullah, considered one of the most important operational members of Hamas' so-called military wing, told Klein that Gibbons "must be sentenced to death and harshly sanctioned according to Sharia law."
"This woman doesn't respect Islam, not only because of what she says but because she brings to the Sudanese people all of your Western and Crusader corruption. Crusaders have no religion, culture or human values ... all your values are corrupted, inhumane, based on sex and materialism."
Too bad those who need to learn these things from truly devout Muslims likely never will.
George? Sean? Rudy?
Anyone?
Ali claims that Islam has been bad for others as well; for example the Arabs, prior to Islam, were known for their tolerance.
Posted by: jewdog
They must have been tolerant. The Kaaba before Mo supposedly held 360 idols. That's a pretty roomy pantheon. And of course it doesn't include the Jews of Mecca, who had no idols at all. After Mo there was just one idol, and no Jews. One wonders how he chose the one that survived. Did he just draw a number from his headdress, or did the adherents of that one offer him the biggest bribe?
There is no other religion that is so obsessed with numbers (often played loosely). World's second largest religion and fastest-growing religion are mantras of Islamists. Why? Because through numbers they hope to dominate the globe. There is rarely talk of the positive attributes of the religion. We learn little from Muslims about what makes Islam such an exalted religion. Instead, we get numbers and growth rates (whether by sword or Dawa, converting those who seek easy and certain answers through uncritical submission).
Every pronouncement by a Muslim on the desirability of Islam as a creed seems a numbers-oriented threat. We are growing. We will soon be the biggest religion in the world. Get with the program and submit.
After a time, it becomes clear that Islam is not about a relationship with God or a system of beliefs to bring comfort to the world and help people get through life while being kind to others. Islam is an ideology of expansion and Imperialism: homogenizing the world to a medieval Arabian peninsula outlook that has given the world nothing of value and brought misery to millions upon millions. So every time a Muslim talks about Islam and mentions numbers, it is a threat that everyone must submit or become extinct.
Other people can toss numbers around too. In these pages and their links, I've seen some interesting ones in the last year. For example, Moslems in Europe are leaving their religion at the rate of 2000/day. And in China, people are joining the various Christian denominations at the rate of 10000/day. If these figures are correct one has to wonder if Islam is really the "fastest-growing".
Actually, it's Christianity that's the fastest growing, which is why islamism (and even their islamicommie 5th column allies in the west) is so upset, and obsessed with it.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58996
Speaking of upset mOslems, anyone see this recent tidbit of total hilarity?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58996
If ya thought mohammed teddy bear drew outrageous reactions...wait till they get a load of:
MOHAMMED THE PIG!
LMAO
youngtimer said:
"So what, you might say, your Congressman already knows the facts so what good did a letter to him do? Do you have any idea how it boosted my spirits to know that at least ONE CONGRESSMAN knows the truth? He'll talk to others!!! Try it and see."
Yeah, right. Unfortunately, my Congressman is Keith Ellison.
I used to chuckle when I heard Ann Coulter comment as a solution to the Muslim problem that "we should invade and convert them all to Christianity".
I have thought a lot about the situation at hand, and I cannot see an amiable resolution that would be viable, and thus I have to resort to Ann's solution as worthy of consideration.
Of course I think that Sharia should be outlawed immediately in all countries of the world, and move forward from there.
It is a tough stand to take, but with Islam being as it is, and the current batch of "moderates" unwilling or unable to effect massive change on a scale that would neuter it, I fear that there is only one remaining solution and that is war; that and outright banishment or conversion in non-Islamic countries.
Hardbody,
I think Ann Coulter was 'riffing' off the Jihadists. The Jihadist's , as is my understanding , want to invade our country , kill our leaders , and covert us all to Islam. Coulter merely substituted Christianity for Islam....absolutely delicious , of course the humourless lefties didnt get it.
Wow...Islam is so awesome! So powerful! When have Christians ever called for murdering someone who insulted Christianity? I've learned many other cool things about Islam also, such as: I can have multiple wives, (pre-teen even!), an unlimited number of sex-slaves, and temporary marriages! How cool is that? I'm permitted to beat those wives if they don't treat me as their superior...extremely cool! Muslim heaven is so much cooler than Christian heaven also; nothing but sex with virgins and rivers of wine...how cool is that?...and I can go there GUARENTEED if I kill some non-believers during my martyrdom. Where do I sign up?
Xero G
Yes Islam ,a veritable Redneck wonderland.
Yes, we should listen to ex-Muslims, but who listens? Who listened to Mohammed Rasool, the ex-Muslim living in Holland, when he published his book "De Ondergang van Nederland" (The Downfall of the Netherlands), which warned the Dutch of the danger of Islam?
Most don't even listen to the victims of Islam, why should we then even expect them to listen to ex-Muslims? Who listens to the Kurds in Turkey, or women in Saudi Arabia, who listens to Christians in Egypt or Pakistan, who listens to Hindus in Kashmir? Which newspaper, which university, which politician?
In many cases, the media will only listen and report the Muslim victims, ignoring victims from the other side:
http://secularindia.wordpress.com/2007/11/24/kashmir-human-rights-only-for-the-right-human/
Speaking of which - the book is available online:
http://www.uitkijk.net/docs/De%20Ondergang%20van%20Nederland.pdf
or in english here
http://web.archive.org/web/20060814163537/http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/heroes/downfall.htm
I learned long ago not to pay attention to what people say but watch what they do. The violence committed by "peaceful" and "misunderstood" muslims the world over tells me all that I need to know about them. They are irrationally violent and I have every reason to fear them. How else can you treat people who despise you and think that you should be killed just because you do not accept their religion?
TO EMERSON TWAIN
Ouch! I feel your pain!
(I wonder if he spreads his prayer rug down in the aisle of Congress!)
I feel sorry for the physically abuse female Muslims that are now in women's shelters to hide from the Sharia law followers of Muhammad .
Just try to imagine a Imam on staff that meets with fresh Victims of a Jihad beating by the husband to enlighten her about Allah Laws ....and the first thing she gets is a Question from the Imam who says " So....what do you think you did to make your Husband feel threatened by you and had to beat you before you could harm him out of your ignorance for the true Islamic Laws for punishment?" .
After all , we now see Muslims right here in the West that are now justifying the beheading of a School teacher because a student named Muhammad was allowed to name the Class Teddy Bear MuhamMAD .
We are expected to accept their customs and Sharia law practises within America while we are also told to accept the laws and rules if we become brain dead enough to actually want to visit a hell-hole oppressive Islamic Nation filled with willing suicide bombers that are dying to have sex but can't get a adult female right here on Earth.
In fact , Muhammad was so pathetic in his 50's that he raped a child named Aisha and then blamed it on Allah who is supposed to be that voice in his head ordering him to kill people and spread the Peaceful Islam to all the ignorant masses waiting to be oppressed or beheaded.
Robert , how about a short blurb on " The Bear facts about Islam and tolerance" . ????