Arabic-speaking Christians generally use the word "Allah" for God -- with the notable exception of the Copts. But they are not referring, of course, to the God of the Qur'an, but to the God of the Bible. And one notable dhimmi bishop in the West has called for Christians to use the word "Allah" for God in order to show good will toward Muslims.
If both groups were in Malaysia, however, it would be a different story. Muslim spokesmen in the West endlessly tell us that Muslims, Jews, and Christians all worship the same God -- in accord with Qur'an 29:46. And when I and others point out that the Muslim view of God is quite different from the view of God of Jews and Christians, and that it is therefore hard to sustain a case that all worship the same God, we're vilified and dismissed. But this decision in Malaysia indicates that it is not we who have originated such ideas; they're held by many Muslims as well.
From The Associated Press (thanks to all who sent this in):
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia: A Catholic weekly newspaper in Malaysia has been told to drop the use of the word "Allah" in its Malay language section if it wants to renew its publishing permit, a senior government official said Friday.The Herald, the organ of Malaysia's Catholic Church, has translated the word God as "Allah" but it is erroneous because Allah refers to the Muslim God, said Che Din Yusoff, a senior official at the Internal Security Ministry's publications control unit.
"Christians cannot use the word Allah. It is only applicable to Muslims. Allah is only for the Muslim god. This is a design to confuse the Muslim people," Che Din told The Associated Press.
The weekly should instead, use the word "Tuhan" which is the general term for God, he said.
So who cares!! Talk about a man bites dog story! I understand the point you're making Robert, but this should never have been an issue. Like so many other things involving Islam, this whole story is totally the reverse of the way things would be if we lived in a sane world. Why should non-Arabic speakers use the word "Allah" anyway? If they've done it simply to pander to the Muslims - and I can't think of any reason - it should be clear to them that it's pointless and counterproductive. Its a Malay language publication so (of course!) they should use the Malay word - Tuhan.
I get totally weirded out hearing English speaking people, including English speaking Muslims, talking about "Allah", instead of using the proper English word "God". It makes no sense whatever given the etymology and the meaning of the Arabic word. It comes across in English as a creepy sounding word and its definitely a totally creepy behaviour. I suspect that Muslims and their sympathizers do it only to mystify us because, they think, its "exotic" sound plays on our gullibility. Its a form of manipulation that, like so many other things Islamic is meant to bamboozle the rest of us. We should avoid it at all costs and demand that Muslims respect the cultures that host them by using the word proper to the particular language.
Nothing to lament here, folks. If anything, Robert, I think you should turn the tables by using this as an occassion to add the whole matter of English language references to "Allah" to your list of complaints about Islamic chauvinism.
Oops.
"If they've done it simply to pander to the Muslims - and I can't think of any reason - it should be clear to them that it's pointless and counterproductive".
"... any other reason ..." I should say.
Templar,
The name "Allah" was stolen by Muhammed who apllied it to his moon-god. Arabic speaking Christians and Jews had already been using it for hundreds of years. Allah is a contraction of al-illah which simply means "the God".
Illah, which is the neo-Aramaic for the Hebrew "Eli" or "Eloi". On the cross, Jesus quoting the opening line of Psalm 22 cried out "Eli, Eli, Lama sabachthani".
When the Muslims of Malaysia demand the Catholics change the name by which they've always called God to a Malay word that applies equally to pagan deities, they are trying to reduce Christians to the status of "mushrakin" i.e. polytheists who have no legal protections.
However, were I advising the Catholic paper, I would suggest they drop the contraction "Allah" and replace it with the more formal "Al-illah" showing Muslims that the God of the Christians is truly "The God"!
Illah, which is the neo-Aramaic for the Hebrew "Eli" or "Eloi". On the cross, Jesus quoting the opening line of Psalm 22 cried out "Eli, Eli, Lama sabachthani".
Jeez, Provo, how do you know all this stuff?
As Malays are not Arabs, nor are all Malays Muslim (though Malaysian authorities desire that they would be), then it makes no sense for a Malay-language Catholic newspaper to use the Arabic name "Allah," except as an effort to equate the Judeo-Christian God with the Islamic one.
I detest the establishmentation of Islam in a supposedly secular pluralist state--that such follows from a 60% majority of Muslims proves to me that I don't want significant numbers of Muslims as neighbors. I despise Sharia-creep.
"Jeez, Provo, how do you know all this stuff?"
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer
-------------------------------------
I read too much. Maybe I ought to get a life?
:)
Allah is a contraction of al-illah which simply means "the God".
Posted by Provoslavni
But that's precisely my point, though I suspect that your knowledge of the languages involved may be superior to mine.
If the language spoken by these Christians were Arabic then it would make perfect sense for them to use the word "Allah". As it is though, it is a foreign borrowing which, given the information that I have at present, seems to displace a word proper to the Malay language that has an identical meaning. Isn't this an encroachment against the Malay culture? My argument applies equally to the Muslims. I would have expected that they too should use the word "God" when they're speaking English - or, as in this case, "Tahun" when speaking Malay. Since our English word "God", when used in its conventional sense, constitutes a proper noun like any other "given name", or if you prefer, only means "the God" i.e. the one and only, when used without the indefinite article "a", why should anyone insist on a foreign word? I note that we have not imported any word for this concept (Aramaic, Arabic or otherwise) into English or any other European language, but have relied on the words proper to the respective European language such as God, Gott, Dieu, Boh, Ho Theos, etc.
It all depends on the meaning of "Tahun". Can it be used as a proper noun i.e. a given name such as our English word "God", or is there some overwhelming cultural baggage weighing against this? Did the Christians of Malaysia retain the Semitic/Aramaic/Arabic word to make a statement against some corrupting polytheistic meaning that was innately and irredeemably woven into the Malay word "Tahun" or was it just an attempt to appease Muslims shadowing them? If it was only the latter, then it could be seen as a corruption of Christianity. Christianity, since at least the time of St. Paul, has always seen itself as transcending cultural cleavages and incarnating itself in the entire variety of the worlds cultures and languages. Only Islam tries to enslave God to the culture of a single backward, obscure, underdeveloped tribal people.
I agree with those who praise your extensive knowledge, Provoslavni. Please enlighten me further if you can.
I note that there is nothing in either the Associated Press article or in Robert's posting that speaks to these issues with the possible exception of Che Din's Yusuff's idiotic comments to which I can only say "consider the source".
"Tuhan" - mea culpa!
Allah is Mohammands alter ego;
‘‘He who obeys the Messenger has Indeed obeyed Allah…” (HQ:4:80)
"Say, [O Muhammad, to mankind]: If you love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you." (Al'Imran 3/31)
"And the might belongs to Allah and to His Messenger." (al-Munafiqun 63/8)
An alter ego (Latin, "the other I") is a second self, a second personality or persona within a person. It was coined in the early nineteenth century when schizophrenia was first described by early psychologists.[1]
I'm glad Muslims agree that the Islamic Allah is not the same as the Christian God. They are not equivalent or interchangeable, they do not teach the same values; they should not be referred to by the same name.
Who is “LORD OF THE WORLDS”?
ALLAH
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the “RULERS OF DARKNESS” of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
“RULERS OF DARKNESS
Lexicon Results for kosmokratōr (Strong's G2888)
1) Lord of the world, prince of this age
a) The devil and his demons
ALLAH =LORD OF THE WORLDS= DEVIL AND HIS DEMONS.
Say: O disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship; Nor worship ye that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. S. 109:1-6 Pickthall
Me, being a disbeliever, DO NOT CONSIDER YOUR ALLAH MY GOD.
So says JOE SCHMOE!
Illah is a more fitting name-a mentally ill god for mentally ill people.
Provo
Malay itself is an Indian derivative language e.g. Bhoomi & Putra are Sanskrit based words, not Arabic. Allah is the Malay word for God only as a result of the import of Islam: there is no way that pre-Islamic Malays refered to their God as Allah.
Given that, Malay speaking infidels should substitute Sanskrit or Tamil equivalents of God for their god. There is no reason they should use an Arabic word for god in an otherwise non-Arabic related language. In non-European languages, God is refered to by whatever the common noun translation is in that language, and it can be the same in Malay.
In other words, it's not the same situation as Arabic speaking Christians.
Templar and Infidel Pride,
I believe the problem is that "tuhan" has a meaning closer to a local governing animist spirit rather than the Creator of the universe. It is not dpecifically monotheistic. In English we use the same word "God" for the Creator and "gods" for Zeus, Wodin, Huitzilopochtli, etc. However we generally capitalize God only when refering to Him in a monotheistic sense.
When Christian missionaries first arrived among the Malays, they found the already existing cultural practice to use "tuhan" for animist deities and the Arabic "Allah" for the Creator. They simply used what was already culturally appropriate. That's why I advocate changing the use to "Al-illah" (The God) or simply "Illah" for Christians and leaving the contraction "Allah" to the Muslims.
Even better would for the Catholic paper to really show some balls and refer to the Judeo-Christian Deity as "the True Allah" and the Muslim deity as "the false Allah" or "the demonic Allah". However, I doubt they are that suicidal.
Provoslavni
Allah is the name of the Islamic god , it is not a contraction of 'Al-illah'..I think Robert Spencer covered this somewhere. See Qur'an 17:110 where it is spelt out:
"Say, Call Him Allah or call Him Ar-Rahman; whatever the name you call Him, all His names are beautiful."
The fact is that Mo' plagerised his pagan roots as well as Christianity and Judaism. Allah is the name given to a pagan idol long before the revelations came into Mo's large head. The name of the Biblical God is 'Yahweh' , which was never spoken EVER ....hence depriving Mo' of this important name.
Just as Islam means submission not peace (or whatever), Allah is a proper name , not a word...the Muslim gatekeepers are indeed tricky. The two Gods named respectively, Yahweh and Allah, are clearly not the same in name or doctrine. So why would any Christian use Allah in place of the more generic word God ( or its mayalisain equivalent) - which has been used in place of the unspoken Yahwah for millenia!
There are many such edicts issued in Multi Culti Malaysia (the Pakistan of S.E.Asia) in fact Malaysia (TRULY ASIA) is a perfect example of what happens to the sizeable 40% minority when Mohammedans take charge, Shariah Law, Bumiputera dhimmi Laws, destruction of ancient Churches and Hindu Temples and every possible hurdle put in the way of establishing new ones. Yes we really should look VERY CLOSELY at Malaysia and take note of what WILL happen if we let Mohammedans become the majority ANYWHERE.
"Christians cannot use the word Allah. It is only applicable to Muslims. Allah is only for the Muslim god. This is a design to confuse the Muslim people," Che Din told The Associated Press.
For once, a Mohammedan with a point of view that I share. Only, to really clarify things, to make the situation transparent, why not call the thing "Mohamallah"?
I fully agree with Che Din. Allah is the god of islam, NOT the God of the Judeo-Christians.
I can get an answer to this Malay language question. I am forwarding the thread to my Chinese Christian (Pentecostal) friend from Malaysia. He lives in the USA.
"Just as Islam means submission" --posted above by David Xavier
Actually, it means "surrender." Literally it means "surrender," though "submission" can be taken as a secondary non-literal meaning.
David Xavier,
I'm trying to apologise and make amends for any offense I've given you, so do take note of my recent postings in the wake of your own.