Blogging the Qur’an: Sura 10, “Jonah”

Although there are 114 suras of the Qur'an, now that I have completed the first 10 in my Blogging the Qur'an series, I'm about a third of the way through the book. In case you're just tuning in, what I'm trying to do is illuminate the Islamic understanding of the Qur'an by exploring various mainstream Muslim commentaries on the various passages. As we go, of course, some clear preoccupations of the Muslim holy book become clear, and they have important implications for non-Muslims today who are confronted the world over by Muslims who take these teachings seriously.

Feedback is welcome -- especially answers to the following questions:

1. Helllllooooo out there! Is anyone out there actually reading this thing?
2. If your answer to #1 is yes, do you find it helpful?
3. If your answer to #1 is no, why not?
4. What do you think I should change about it, short of dropping the whole project (which I do not intend to do), that would make it more useful to you?

Thanks for any input.

And here is this week's segment:

Surah 10, “Jonah,” dates from late in the Meccan period, the first part of Muhammad’s prophetic career. Its name comes from v. 98, where the prophet Jonah is mentioned in passing. After another set of three mysterious letters, the chapter begins by declaring, “These are the ayats [signs] of the Book of Wisdom” (v. 1). “This indicates,” says Ibn Kathir, “that these are verses of the Qur’an, in which the wisdom of judgment is clear.”

Verses 2-36 sum up that “wisdom of judgment” via a series of assertions: Allah made all things (vv. 5-6); the idols that the unbelievers worship are worthless (v. 18); some people are ungrateful to Allah (v. 12); Allah destroyed earlier generations of unbelievers (v. 13); the unbelievers will burn in hell (vv. 8, 27); and the believers will enjoy the gardens of Paradise (vv. 9, 26).

The skins of the blessed will be white, and that of the damned black (vv. 26-27). Ibn Kathir quotes a hadith to this effect: “When the people of Paradise enter Paradise,” we’re told, “a caller will say: ‘O people of Paradise, Allah has promised you something that He wishes to fulfill.’” Then the blessed will answer: “What is it? Has He not made our Scale heavy?” – that is, has he not judged that our good deeds outweigh our bad ones? “Has He not made our faces white and delivered us from Fire?” For “no blackness or darkness will be on their faces during the different events of the Day of Judgment. But the faces of the rebellious disbelievers will be stained with dust and darkness.” Though some have tried to make this into a racial statement, there is nothing in the mainstream Muslim Qur’an commentaries to support this; it is clearly a moral judgment, not a racial one.

Verses 37-41 turn to the excellence of the Qur’an, and how Muhammad should respond to those who challenge it. Allah tells Muhammad that the Qur’an could only have been produced by Allah, and that it confirms the earlier revelations, and contains “a fuller explanation of the Book — wherein there is no doubt — from the Lord of the worlds.” Ibn Kathir expatiates on this:

The Qur’an has a miraculous nature that cannot be imitated. No one can produce anything similar to the Qur’an, nor ten Surahs or even one Surah like it. The eloquence, clarity, precision and grace of the Qur’an cannot be but from Allah. The great and abundant principles and meanings within the Qur’an — which are of great benefit in this world and for the Hereafter — cannot be but from Allah. There is nothing like His High Self and Attributes or like His sayings and actions. Therefore His Words are not like the words of His creatures.

It confirms earlier books, he explains, “and is a witness to them. It shows the changes, perversions and corruption that have taken place within these Books” – reflecting the mainstream Islamic belief that the Jewish and Christian Scriptures of today are merely corrupted versions of the original messages of the Muslim prophets Moses and Jesus. The Qur’an corrects these corruptions, and no one can produce a chapter like it (v. 38).

Why issue a challenge like this? Because, turning once again to Ibn Kathir, “eloquence was a part of the nature and character of the Arabs. Arabic poetry including Al-Mu`allaqat — the oldest complete collection of the most eloquent ancient Arabic poems — was considered to be the best in the literary arts. However Allah sent down to them something whose style none were familiar with, and no one is equal in stature to imitate. So those who believed among them, believed because of what they knew and felt in the Book, including its beauty, elegance, benefit, and fluency. They became the most knowledgeable of the Qur’an and its best in adhering to it.” This is one of the principal reasons why traditional Islamic theology says that the Qur’an cannot be translated: losing the music of the Arabic language, it loses part of its essence.

Here, in any case, are a number of attempts to take up the Qur’anic challenge.

Verses 42-70 repeat many of the same themes, continuing to criticize for failing to heed the messengers from Allah, which have been sent to every nation (v. 47). Allah’s eternal punishments should move the sinners to repent (vv. 50-54), for he gives life and takes it, and to him all shall return (v. 56). All creatures belong to Allah, and the idolaters invent lies against Allah (v. 66). The unbelievers even dare to claim that Allah has a son, when actually he is self-sufficient. The Tafsir al-Jalalayn explains: “They, that is, the Jews and the Christians, and those who claim that the angels are the daughters of God, say, ‘God has taken [to Him] a son.’” But in fact, “He is Independent, [without need] of anyone, for only he who has need of a child would desire [to have] one. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, as possessions, creatures and servants.”

Then verses 71-93 tell the stories of Noah (vv. 71-74) and Moses (vv. 75-93), without significant variation from the versions in sura 7. Both Noah and Moses are cast in roles much like Muhammad’s: prophets whose messages go unheeded by their insolent and spiteful hearers, who are duly punished. Moses actually prays here that Allah not have mercy on Pharaoh: “Deface, our Lord, the features of their wealth, and send hardness to their hearts, so they will not believe until they see the grievous penalty” (v. 88). Allah accepts their prayer (v. 89), although when Pharaoh repents (v. 90), Allah saves him (v. 92). He “settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place,” but “they fell into schisms” (v. 93). According to a hadith, “the Jews separated into seventy-one sects, and the Christians separated into seventy-two sects, and this Ummah [the Muslim community] will separate into seventy-three sects, one of which is in Paradise, seventy-two in the Fire.”

The sura concludes with reassurance for Muhammad and affirmations of Allah’s sovereignty, in verses 94-109. Allah tells Muhammad to “ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee” if he doubts the revelations he has been receiving (v. 94). The Tafsir al-Jalalayn says that this means that Muhammad should “question those who read the Scripture, the Torah, before you, for it is confirmed [therein] with them and they can inform you of its truth.” This assumes, of course, that uncorrupted versions of the Jewish (and Christian) Scriptures were available in Muhammad’s day – a contention that creates immense difficulties for the Islamic claim that they were corrupted at all, since copies exist from that era, and they are not different from the Jewish and Christian Scriptures as they exist today.

But ultimately, it is up to Allah who believes and who doesn’t (vv. 99-100). Why he would create human beings only to torture them in eternal fire is left unexplained.

Next week: Sura 11, “Hud,” about the Department of Housing and Urban Development – no, scratch that, it’s actually named for the prophet Hud, and warns those who may be overly confident due to Allah’s delay in punishment.

(Here you can find links to all the earlier "Blogging the Qur'an" segments. Here is a good Arabic Qur’an, with English translations available; here are two popular Muslim translations, those of Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, along with a third by M. H. Shakir. Here is another popular translation, that of Muhammad Asad. And here is an omnibus of ten Qur’an translations.)

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56 Comments

To answer your questions:

1. Yes!

2. Very much so.

3. N.A.

4. No suggestions to change from this reader.

Thanks very much for all your effort in enlightening the world about the religion of peace from someone who grew up amongst members of the religion of peace whose members used to be secular, and where a lot of them have now 'found religion', and are busy denying the non muslims their rights. Of course with a little help from the government.

"Why he (Allah) would create human beings only to torture them in eternal fire is left unexplained."


Why some men will father daughters, only to kill them as children also remains unexplained. Sorry, Robert. I'm so NOT over the importation of honor killing to America that I'm designing leaflets.


"1. Helllllooooo out there! Is anyone out there actually reading this thing?
2. If your answer to #1 is yes, do you find it helpful?
3. If your answer to #1 is no, why not?
4. What do you think I should change about it, short of dropping the whole project (which I do not intend to do as long as Michelle will have me here), that would make it more useful to you?

1. You'd better believe I'm reading it!
2. I do find it helpful. If I had to wade through all of the repitition, contradiction, and just plain terrible literature which comprise the Qur'an, I'd be crazier than I am, now.
4. Maybe if you had one or a couple of regular Muslim commenters to 'splain themselves, especially with regard to the more odious passages, it would be interesting (and no doubt quite humorous).

It's great as it is, though, and thank you for doing the dirty work of reading and interpreting that ignoble tome.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes!

2. Very much so.

3. N.A.

4. No suggestions to change from this reader

Never Ever even think of dropping it Dear Robert. Its job will not be over ever. Its a platform beacon of Democracy and Freedom. Even if the scourge of Islam is defeated and eradicated , there is no surety of its not coming back in some other devilish mode form with another new name. Good and evil will walk together. The struggle of life never ends. We are dutibound to go on doing it. It is the Humanity's ( GOD's ! )Job.

YES!! I read it each week, and if I miss a week (like I did during Thanksgiving and then during the Christmas period) I just do some catch up. I don't blog it though. I not only use them as reference in my blogs on other websites, I follow along in the koran that I have.

As for suggestions, or comments, about it - I don't really have any. I guess I just appreciate that you are doing this. I would guess that there are other lurkers out there like me.

Yes, I read them and reference them.

I have been reading and compiling these posts in a file for future reference, not quite sure at the moment what I'll eventually do with them. But this is an invaluable reference and please don't truncate it.

Thoreau said that readers should work as hard at understanding as authors do at writing - something that a smaller percentage of folks seem willing to do. But I for one will keep cutting out a few unnecessary distractions and spending the time needed on grasping your points.

Please do NOT dumb this down! Thank you Robert. You're my hero, my Mars in Aquarius opposition Pluto!

Mr Spencer
Is there any commentary on who this We is?
I though Allah was all alone?

010.073
YUSUFALI: They rejected Him, but We delivered him, and those with him, in the Ark, and We made them inherit (the earth), while We overwhelmed in the flood those who rejected Our Signs. Then see what was the end of those who were warned (but heeded not)!
PICKTHAL: But they denied him, so We saved him and those with him in the ship, and made them viceroys (in the earth), while We drowned those who denied Our revelations. See then the nature of the consequence for those who had been warned
010.075
YUSUFALI: Then after them sent We Moses and Aaron to Pharaoh and his chiefs with Our Signs. But they were arrogant: they were a people in sin.


Sincerely
BurgerBoy

Abscedere:

4. Maybe if you had one or a couple of regular Muslim commenters to 'splain themselves, especially with regard to the more odious passages, it would be interesting (and no doubt quite humorous).

You mean living breathing ones? Any and all are invited in, although I doubt they'll come. I already have made copious reference to standard Muslim commentaries, as you'll see in the actual Q-Blog posts.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

BurgerBoy:

The Muslim commentaries say the We is a royal one that does not imply multiplicity within or around Allah.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Yes, I read them, find them very helpful and keep up the good job!


1. Yup.

2. Very much so.

3. Doesn't apply to me.

4. No, I think it's good as it is and don't think you need to change anything.

******* ONLY SUGGESTION ********

When the Guardian WhiteWash Blogging of the Qur'an happens, I think you ought to write a rebuttal to each one. Quote them on one side of the page, answer the BS on the other, liberally sprinkling with quotes from the last fatawa you can find that apply to it.

I think the Guardian hopes to provide an ALTERNATIVE to what you are doing. Otherwise, they wouldn't utterly rip off the title so that Google brings them up alongside yours.

So, if you possibly have any time, answer them, quoting the sources!

Reading and learning.

Keep shining the light, Robert.

Robert, I read your Blogging the Qur'an series because it deepens my understanding of the book and clarifies in my mind why Muslims do what they do. You have a way of cutting through the chaff and getting to the nitty gritty, and you do so in that even tempered, scholarly way I find very enjoyable.

I hope once you complete the series it will be availble as a book or in some other printed form. I think it would be an invaluable resource like your Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam And The Crusades or The Truth About Muhammad. Events and statements from the Muslim world confirm your take in these matters, and your Blogging The Qur'an series deserves more widespread exposure.

Keep up the good work and thanks for what you do.

Morgaan:

I think the Guardian hopes to provide an ALTERNATIVE to what you are doing. Otherwise, they wouldn't utterly rip off the title so that Google brings them up alongside yours.

I think it's just accidental, and I doubt the Guardian knows I'm doing it. However, I have high hopes that they will discover that fact soon.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Leaving comments is closed for new users there

1. I am actually reading this thing, as you call it, every week.I'm not much for commenting on sites like this one and Hot Air.
But I'm relying on you.

2. Helpful?
Heck yes, it is helpful!
I am constantly going back to a paragraph or sentence to use in argumentation. (I live in an ''international city.")

4. What do I think you should change about it that would make it more useful to me?
If anything, look at how many Bibles gives you a hint of the main thought of each page on top of the page and do the same with every paragraph as you blog the Qur'an.
That aids in scanning for a particular point inside a longer article.
Of course, if you don't I can use a ''key word'' search (as long as my old memory holds to your exact words.)

Yes, it is very helpful and I use it as a reference when composing e-mails or letters to the White House, Dept of State, various congressmen or even friends and family. You are doing the legwork for a lot of us out here and saving us gobs of time. Thanks so much.

4. Audio CD boxed set read by the author. Original and chronological sura order versions.

I'll buy at least five. Make them pricey, you don't need to be doing this for free. I already have a gift in mind for a specific PC liberal relative, just to watch her spontaneously combust.

Grennbeck

Registration @ hotair happens to be open right now. At any rate, questions could be posted here if not there.

In response to Robert's questions above,

  1. Yep!
  2. Very much so.
  3. N/A
  4. No suggestions for improvements
I will admit that I generally focussed on surahs and ayats that have the controversial verses, like 2:191-193, 5:33, 8:39, 9:5 and so on, and there, you did such a fine job of elaborating these that there wasn't much left to ask. So I do read your sections - some more than others. The ones that have the prescriptions of how infidels, women and other unfavored groups are to be treated, I read and analyze.

Since I'm neither a Christian nor a Jew, I do admit that I gloss over the Quranic references to Biblical events and people, such as Jonah: that genuinely does not interest me. Islam could co-opt and distort every aspect of Biblical activities, but had that not been accompanied by any supremacist underpinnings, it would only be of interest to people majoring in comparitive religion, and not much more.

I am looking forward to Surah 47, among others - ironically (or not), the one titled 'Mohammed', and which sanctions beheadings.

1. Yes

2. Yes, as reading the Qur'an is very difficult for me since it doesn't have any context or narrative structure.

3. NA

4. Please!

Can you recommend an English translation to me?

1. Helllllooooo out there! Is anyone out there actually reading this thing?

Yes

2. If your answer to #1 is yes, do you find it helpful?

Yes

4. What do you think I should change about it..

0

Can you recommend an English translation to me? Posted by: tanstaafl
From the 'Robert Spencer' link above:
Q: Can you recommend a good English translation of the Qur'an?
RS: N. J. Dawood's is the most readable in English. However, most versions do not mark the verse numbers precisely. Some non-Muslims don't like it because he uses "God" for Allah, although since Arabic-speaking Christians use "Allah" for the God of the Bible, and have for over a millennium, this is a problem for poseurs and pseudo-scholars but is not really a serious objection to anyone who knows both languages. Also, many Muslims dislike this translation because Dawood was not a Muslim, and doesn't sugarcoat any of the passages. Two translations by Muslims, those by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and Mohammed Marmaduke Pickthall, are generally reliable, although both write in a stilted, practically unreadable pseudo-King James Bible English. Of the two, Ali's contains more liberties with the text -- such as adding "(lightly)" to Sura 4:34 after the directive to husbands to beat their disobedient wives. The Arabic doesn't say to beat them lightly, it just says to beat them. Pickthall's is generally accurate.
There are other good translations. For years I have liked Arberry's for its audacious literalism and often poetic English. Compare, for example, 81:15-18:
فَلَا أُقْسِمُ بِالْخُنَّسِ الْجَوَارِ الْكُنَّسِ وَاللَّيْلِ إِذَا عَسْعَسَ وَالصُّبْحِ إِذَا تَنَفَّسَ ...in Pickthall and Arberry: Pickthall: "Oh, but I call to witness the planets, the stars which rise and set, and the close of night, and the breath of morning..." Arberry: "No! I swear by the slinkers, the runners, the sinkers, by the night swarming, by the dawn sighing..." Shades of the Symbolists. Arberry gives a hint of how the book sounds in Arabic, in which it is full of beguiling rhymes and rhythms.

Mr. Spencer, I am paying attention and reading along with my own copy in paperback...spelled Qu'ran.

Not-Sleeping American Tiger

1. Haven't missed a single installment.
2. Absolutely. It's introducing me to a lot of material I've hitherto not seen.
3. N/A
4. In due course, this series should be compiled into a book. I'd buy one copy for myself, plus a couple of loaners.

The series may also be attracting attention amongst the opposition. In Sunday's edition of the New York Times Book Review, which is devoted exclusively to books about Islam (and excludes all those by prominent counterjihadists such as Spencer, Ye'or, Warraq, and Bostom), Tariq Ramadan has a disquisition on reading the Qur'an in which he cautions that "it is not the first book someone seeking to know Islam should read" but assures us that "all commentators, without distinction as to school of jurisprudence, agree that certain verses of the revealed Text (in particular, but not only, those that refer to war) speak of specific situations that had arisen at the moment of their revelation," that "it has always been clear that the interpretation of its verses is plural in nature, and that there has always existed an accepted diversity of readings among Muslims," and that the above-named excluded scholars are "extracting from the Koran certain passages, which they then proceed to analyze in total disregard for the methodological tools employed by the ulema."

Sounds as though he's trying to innoculate credulous infidels against this very series.

1. Helllllooooo out there! Is anyone out there actually reading this thing?

I am, and have been since discovering last summer. I didn't know you were reposting the articles here, so I haven't been able to comment, because Hot Air's registration is closed. (Grr....)

2. If your answer to #1 is yes, do you find it helpful?

Very. I've read the Qur'an, but found it very tedious and, I suspect, hard to understand without also studying the ahadith. So, your explications have been very handy. (As was your biography of Muhammad.)

4. What do you think I should change about it, short of dropping the whole project (which I do not intend to do as long as Michelle will have me here), that would make it more useful to you?

I think it's fine as is, but I have some suggestions for a follow-up: I'd like to see an ordering of the books by chronology (when they were written or when they take place in Muhammad's career), rather than by size (Why'd they ever choose that means??). I think it would help understand the text.

Also, some sort of thematic index would be nice. Of course, a comprehensive index would be a hugeg topic, but a grouping of key verses by theme (women, jihad, relations with unconquered non-Muslims and subject dhimmi peoples, e.g.) would be very handy.

I hope one day you'll turn this into a book.

best wishes,
--Anthony (Los Angeles)

Infidel Pride -

I think I must have had a senior moment.

Thanks

tanstaafl

1. I am
2. Yes.
3. N/A
4. Please, do not drop it.

Mr. Spencer: I am trying to devour everything you write so yes, blogging the Qur'an is very helpful. I must admit that I have to prepare myself before I read your books, Jihad Watch, or Blogging the Qur'an. I must be well rested and have plenty of time to read each sentence slowly and carefully. Other authors I can skim read and get the gist of what they're writing about. I can't do that with your writing. When I read your writing I'm reading something that is so vitally important to America and to me that I don't want to miss a word you write. It also takes time for it all to sink into this thick head of mine.

Dear Mr Spencer

keep at it!

1 - Yes I am reading it - both here and at HotAir. I read all the discussion, too. Your patience and good humour as you answer people's questions, is an inspiration.

It's fascinating to watch people's reactions as - like the sunnily smiling host of a Nature documentary - you lift up the rocks and shine the torch underneath; hissing and spitting, horrible ideas with too many legs, stings and teeth scuttle off in all directions; everyone else screams and leaps back out of the way but you, Robert lean in and pounce on this or that little monster, grip it with the tongs, and hold it up for closer inspection.

2 - Yes it is helpful. Keep going!

3 - The existing format is fine.

1. Yes.

2. Yes, and also very interesting.

4. It's great the way it is.

Thank you!

Hi Robert. I am an avid reader and hope you don't quit before giving your take on Sura 66, which fascinates me, because of the self-serving nature of it and because of the two competing "historical" narratives provided for context. I find the honey tradition unlikely but very interesting by itself, and the "afternoon delight" version more likely and profoundly important in its portrayal of Mohammed's character. In either case it is a prime example of abuse of "prophet" status to effect a resolution in a marital dispute. Apparently Mo required Allah on his side to declare him right because of these nasty women ganging up on him, that can be discerned from the text without any context whatsoever. Sometimes it would be great to have divine intervention in my disputes with my wife, when the alternative is admitting that I'm wrong. Mo had a racket going that every married man alive can appreciate...and the nature of the Qur'an is not properly understood until this Sura has been fully laid bare for what it is.

I'm finding your BTQ series helpful as a resource for secondary presentations. There is nothing quite like it on the web, or anywhere else that I can find. I hope you end with a few explorations of themes. Love, for example, and conquest, and women, and interfaith relations, and "science" would be a few good places to start.

I'd love to see Blogging Bukhari, but that would be a huge project, maybe for another life...

Yes! Keep up the blogging the Quran series! I'm a huge fan of Jihad Watch and I check every Monday for the new installment. I'd post comments more often, but typekey sucks and crashes my browser frequently.

Your Blogging the Quran is material for another book Mr Spencer. Please complete the task you have set yourself. I find this very helpful.

Thank you, Robert Spencer, for your postings on the Koran. I find them extremely interesting and illuminating, and have read them all, often in conjunction with my copy of Dawood's translation (I also have Pickthall's translation). I cannnot think of anything that warrants changing, but I agree with posters in this thread who would like to see your video blogging of the Koran be issued on DVD. The world needs you, sir. You are indispensable.

I hope you continue with these posts RT.

Hi folks ... this is Islamic is it not ?..

From Fox News

REDWOOD CITY, Calif. — Authorities say an acid-filled bottle that sprayed a 10-year-old girl yesterday was the fourth of its kind found in San Mateo County in a month.

The two-liter soda bottle filled with hydrochloric acid was wrapped with duct tape and left outside a Redwood City church.

The bottle exploded when the 10-year-old girl's brother kicked it. The acid doused the girl's legs and melted holes in her nylons.

Redwood City Fire Department officials said the girl was not injured.

Battalion Chief Steve Cavallero said three similar bottles have been found recently in Woodside. He said the incidents may be connected.

Robert,

I read the "Blogging the Qur'an" entries at Hot Air every week. Very informative.

I take the series a little more seriously than the ordinary news posts, so I don't comment unless I have a serious question. I save the wise-cracks for the more trivial subjects.

Also, my sign-in is rejected on the "Blogging the Qur'an" comments section about half the time. It's odd, because it's intermittent and only happens on the "Blogging the Qur'an" posts - I can always comment on all other Hot Air posts if I sign in ("forest" at HA). I don't think I've done anything out of line to be restricted from posting, so I'm assuming it's a glitch, but either way, it's prevented me from commenting a number of times on Robert's posts at Hot Air.

I also enjoy (if that word can be used in conjunction with the ol' Qur'an) this series immensely. Plus, the privilege of having Robert taking time to answer questions from his readers is no small thing either.

I'm just one of the many lurkers who are trying to get edjimakated about this vital subject. Please continue... you are providing a valuable service.

Robert -

It occurs to me to wonder whether the reason Muhammad and most Muslim rulers since, have so obsessively attempted to silence the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, and to prevent any Muslim from ever hearing or reading them - and, likewise, the historic refusal to translate or to study Greek literature (the plays of Euripides, for example), and the overall rejection and suspicion of non-Muslim literature and learning, is quite simply this:

That the supposed consummate perfection and beauty of Quranic poetry may appear rather less magnificent when compared with the best that other cultures have to offer. So the prudent thing to do is not to give Muslims the opportunity of making the comparison!

You've spoken of the beauty of the Arabic poetry of the Quran: e.g. you praise Arberry's translation because it "gives a hint of how the book sounds in Arabic, in which it is full of beguiling rhymes and rhythms".

But how does all this compare to, say, the Eastern Orthodox liturgy? To the Psalms or the Song of Solomon? To the Monteverdi Vespers of 1610, or Hildegard of Bingen? To the verse of Shakespeare in English, or to Dante's Paradiso in Italian? To Dylan Thomas, say, or Gerard Manly Hopkins? To Homer and Euripides?

Are there Indians here who can tell us how the Quran - considered purely as poetry - measures up against the Rig Veda, the Ramayana or the Bhagavad-Gita?

What I do know is that the Psalms are beautiful not only in the original Hebrew - e.g. the haiku-like simplicity of 131: 1 -
Hineh mah tov
Umah nayim,
Shevet ahim
Gam yahad.

but also in translation -

Behold how good
And pleasant it is
For brethren to dwell
Together in unity,

and that in reading the translations of the Quran I have not encountered any sustained passage that comes near either the Psalms, Isaiah, the Song of Songs, the Parable of the Prodigal Son, the discourses on Love in John's Gospel and the Letters of John, or 1 Corinithians 13.

Jews and Christians steeped in their scripture, upon encountering exaggerated Muslim claims for the surpassing perfection and clarity of the Quran, and then upon examining said Qur'an in translation, tend to have a WTF??? response. If they speak Arabic their response may be, 'very pretty, but, really, perfection??? Poison may be served in a golden goblet but it's still poison."

Robert, my sincere thanks to you and the crew for providing abundant of information about CowRan and Jihadi-Terrorists. Keep it up.

I've been reading the series faithfully. It's brilliant; please don't change a thing! I wish I had been able to read this two years ago when I taught a class on Islam at my church.

I share dumbledoresarmy's question, and have one of my own:

Passages of the Koran that proclaim the incomparable excellence and infallibility of the Koran itself seem pointless, since since any inference from them would be blatantly circular. Are we not supposed to notice the logical fallacy? Or do they have some other function?

1. yes, though I am a bit behind at the 6th Surra.
2. a strong yes!
3. N/A
4. more background about which of the different tafsir are most prominent and respected and why people such as Ibn Juzayy and Ibn Kathir are sufficient to give a perspective of 'orthodox' mainstream Islam.

Overall, please keep up the good work!

Yes I read them, usually I read them more than once.
And they are helpful. I have no suggestions on how to present it better... Thank you...

Robert,

This is an excellent resource. Thanks for all of the hard work going in to it.

Only thing I'd do different is to post it here each week also so those of us not registered at Hot Air can post questions and comments.

God Bless you

-- Clay

"1. Helllllooooo out there! Is anyone out there actually reading this thing?
2. If your answer to #1 is yes, do you find it helpful?
3. If your answer to #1 is no, why not?
4. What do you think I should change about it, short of dropping the whole project (which I do not intend to do as long as Michelle will have me here), that would make it more useful to you?"

posted by Robert Spencer


My Replies.
1. Yes I'm reading it... but Am behind

2. extremely

3.NA

4.Keep doing it, but prepare your manuscript for publication. (I need the book too so I can review it any where, and any time.)

Clay:

Only thing I'd do different is to post it here each week also so those of us not registered at Hot Air can post questions and comments.

I already do. It has been posted here every week.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Hi Robert,

1)Yes!!!
2)Yes, I find it extremely helpful.
3)N.A.
4)Fine just the way it is.

For heavens do not stop what you're doing! Your efforts have made the koran a lot more understandable to me and my friends (basically, I feel like you've interpreted Klingon* into English). Keep up the good work! God bless you in your efforts.

*no offence intended to Klingon readers

1. Yes, I am reading it.
2. I do think it is helpful.
3. NA
4. At this point I have no recommendations for change.

Keep going as you are doing it.

A comment to Abscedere.

There is a huge difference between a man killing
his daughter for an "honor killing" and God
creating human beings only to be tortured in Hell.

The difference is that God is righteous and His
behavior is right. Unlike the muslim view of God
I, and many others, believe that God is not
transcendent. God has created a world that operates
on certain rational laws-- the laws of God. God
does not act outside of the laws He himself has
created. But man does, and that is what sin is.

So a man killing his daughter is a horrible, craven
act to be condemned. But God creating a being only
to be tortured in Hell goes against the fundamental
laws of right and wrong that God has created.

The former is, regrettably, believable. The latter
is not possible-- unless you believe as the muslims
do.

Pope Benedict discussed this topic recently. We
all remember it because he mentioned the Byzantine
emperor who claimed that all Mohommed did was
bring evil but the rest of the paper is very
informative. You should take a look.

Please keep up your useful analysis of the Koran. My previous attempt to read it ended in failure. The tedium and lack of a sequential, narrative structure drove me crazy.

I think the Guardian Koran Blog will be an interesting counterpoint.

I am part of a book club and I am going to recommend the Koran plus the two alternative explanatory blogs as one of the things we read next year. That should generate some lively discussion.

Question 1: not yet, I'm busy with the Italian translation of Islam 101, so I'll wait for a later time to read it all

Question 2: as for the quick look I got, I think yes, very much

Question 3: --

Question 4: I would like, once in a lifetime, to be able to read the Qu'ran in a sequential, temporally logic way, first suras first, last suras last! Why did Uthman order the suras by lenght? What logic was behind this, if any?

Thanks for everything you are doing (BTW, why none of your books is translate into Italian? May be I know, it's the Eurabia business1) and for your attention.

Paolo Mantellini (Buraq)

The Devil is in the details ..., and there's the devil to pay.

Robert Spencer, perhaps you are expounding Koranic verses and attempting to "decipher" the will of Allah from a Western perspective?

Your Western schooled, rational mind does not want to foist legitimacy to the notion that the Creator of those particles, the elementary quarks, bosons and fermions, and the Designer of sunsets and sunrises and rainbows ..., of snails and pails and puppy dog tails, ... of sugar and spice and everything nice ..., you do not want to give the impression that the Mind, Personality and Intentions of a (The) Creator of the Universe and everything inside the universe can be gleaned from the writings of the Koran, do you? Well, you leave this impression with me.

Perhaps the verbiage of that last paragraph was convoluted and my thoughts are not understood. Talk to me for any length of time and understand that one will not find and then understand the "personality" of this Supreme Being by reading into and deciphering the Koran. Your postings give tacit support for this notion, leaving the impression that the platonic and dangerous thoughts generated out from the Koran are a transmission, or are transmitted from a Supreme Being to Its human creation.

Should anyone believe the Koran is inspired by God or Allah and then personally attempt to discuss with me such an idea, in due time my politely spoken and cordial words will convey the absurdity to such belief.

Robert, the Koran is not a book inspired from God, or Allah. Period. What are your goals, what would you like to see as the ideal outcome from all your time and effort by writing this? Peaceful coexistence between the religions is a noble goal, I suppose, if that's all.

Consider this: take the attitude that Islam is similar to the Mayan and Aztec religions and proceed accordingly. The Incan priests were fond of rituals and in the belief that, for instance, marching kids up the steps of a pyramid and then throwing them live into a fire pit below appeases, makes their gods "happy."

Robert, Islam is not a swordfish, or a tunafish you have hooked at the end of the line and you now find it fun sport to play with it for the next five, six hours. Quit playing games. Either slowly smother it to death, or with a quick move cut its jugular and kill the beast.

Your playing with it.

Rather..., you ARE playing with it. (:-})

I reread your article, and then my post, and I don't believe you are giving the tacit support I mentioned. I read things sometimes and, ... well, the second time around and I read things and understand things differently than the first time.

Your approach is different, perhaps too superficial in exposing the weaknesses while critiqueing. I'll leave it at that.

JihadWatch is on my top five blogs. Keep up the good work Robert.

Feedback is welcome.

1. Helllllooooo out there! Is anyone out there actually reading this thing?
2. If your answer to #1 is yes, do you find it helpful?
3. If your answer to #1 is no, why not?
4. What do you think I should change about it . . .
...................................

1. Yes, I have closely read every blog
2. Extremely helpful. I read the Qu'ran about two years ago (the N.J. Dawood translation)--largely a depressing read, but very instructive. I came away with a much increased understanding of Islam, and your blogs have done much to deepen my understanding of the suras.
3.N/A
4. I can't think of any changes. I look forward to future postings. Just one question--are you thinking of gathering your insights into a pamplet or book when you have finished? I think a lot of readers would find it very useful.

from above:

According to a hadith, “the Jews separated into seventy-one sects, and the Christians separated into seventy-two sects, and this Ummah [the Muslim community] will separate into seventy-three sects, one of which is in Paradise, seventy-two in the Fire.”
..........................

This shows how easy it is to proclaim Takfir--the practice of Muslims claiming that fellow Muslims are hypocrites or apostates, thus considering them and their ideas invalidated. You see this all the time, where Sunnis do not consider Shi'ites to be "true Muslims", or the mainstream refuses to consider small sects such as the Ahmidiyya to be Muslim at all.

When Muslims decry the killing of innocents, it has often been noted that many Muslims do not consider *any* non-Muslims to be "innocent". In addition, there are those who deem other Muslims to be essentially non-Muslim, either because they are considered "insufficiently Muslim", or because they embrace some aspects of non-Muslim culture (such as democracy or human rights).

Hence you have the strange spectacle of Hamas considering Fatah terrorists insufficiently anti-Zionist, or the even stranger spectacle of Hizb-ut-Tahir condemning extremist Hamas as insufficiently Islamic, simply for participating in elections at all.







Not Peace But A Sword by Robert SpencerDid Muhammad Exist? The Muslim Brotherhood in America, by Robert SpencerIslamophobia: Thoughtcrime of the Totalitarian FutureMuslim Persecution of Christians, by Robert Spencer Obama and IslamThe Ground Zero Mosque: Second Wave of the 9/11 Attacks
The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran


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The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam


The Truth About Muhammad


What they’re saying about Robert Spencer
“My comrade-in-arms, my pal, my buddy.”
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“Robert Spencer incarnates intellectual courage when, all over the world, governments, intellectuals, churches, universities and media crawl under a hegemonic Universal Caliphate’s New Order. His achievement in the battle for the survival of free speech and dignity of man will remain as a fundamental monument to the love of, and the self-sacrifice for, liberty.”
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“A national treasure...The acclaimed scholar of Islam.”
Frank Gaffney, Center for Security Policy

“I am indeed honored to call him my friend.”
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“A top American analyst of Islam....A serious scholar...I learn from him.”
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“A brilliant scholar and writer.”
Douglas Murray

"One of my best teachers."
Ashraf Ramelah, Voice of the Copts

“Thank God there’s at least one man with balls left in the West.”
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“Zionist Crusader, missionary of hate, counter-Islam consultant.”
Al-Qaeda’s Adam Gadahn, “Azzam the American”



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