Creeping Sharia Alert. When will Americans get the message -- they must accommodate Muslim sensibilities? "High School Track Star Alleges Religious Discrimination," from WUSA9.com (thanks to Isabella the Crusader):
WASHINGTON, DC (WUSA) -- A DC track and field star says she's been the victim of religious discrimination. Officials at the Montgomery Invitational track meet told Juashaunna Kelly she had to remove her Muslim head covering if she wanted to compete.It was a roller coaster weekend for the 17 year old star from Roosevelt High School. On Friday, Gatorade named her DC Girls Cross Country Runner of the Year. On Saturday, officials at the Montgomery Invitational left her weeping.
"I knew she was about to say I couldn't run," says Juashaunna. "So I started crying. And she told me to calm down and everything. And I was just standing there crying."
Since her sophomore year at Roosevelt, Juashaunna has worn a custom made suit that covers her head and neck as required by her faith. But officials at the prestigious indoor track told her it violated the rules. "And I told her, I've been wearing it for three years, why can't I wear it now?"
"I said doing that would be almost like me sending her out there buck naked," says Roosevelt track coach Anthony Bowden. "I can't do that."
Track meet director Tom Rogers insists it had nothing to do with what Juashaunna was wearing on her head. He says lots of runners wear hejabs. One was even officiating at the meet. He says it has to do with what was under her uniform. Association rules require undergarments be one single solid color.
"It started off with the hood," says Juashaunna's mother Sarah. "He didn't say anything about an undergarment or shirt. He said the hood. The hood had to come off."
The discussion got pretty heated.
"You need to back off," Coach Bowden told an official. "'I don't want you in my face, cause you're spitting on me.' It got to the point where I just took my hand and put it in his face and pushed him back."
Juashaunna's convinced she missed a chance to shine for college scouts. There "was a lot of recruiters at this meet," she says.
"I feel bad because I promised her something I wasn't able to deliver," says her coach.
The track meet is sponsored by Montgomery County Schools. Its director says a sanctioned meet has to follow the rules set up by the National Federation of State High School Associations.
Nope. Those rules have to change now.
Ugh, this is right near where I live. It's getting worse every day around here.
...Muslim want everything their way....fine...let them compete in Muslim only contests...besides, they really do not want to be around non Muslims anyway...
From the comment section
"The meet director and the official clearly explained the rule several times: any undergarment worn by any competitor in a high school sanctioned meet must be a solid color. They did not make these rules, they were merely enforcing them. They told the runner, the mother, and the coach that all she needed to do to be eligible to race was to put a solid colored tee over the speedsuit, then her team singlet. It was NEVER, EVER about the hood. If this runner didn't race, it was due to an unwillingness to compromise on her part or those of her mother and coach. She wasn't robbed by anyone. There is no room for this kind of nonsense at a high-level track meet."
"It got to the point where I just took my hand and put it in his face and pushed him back."
Coach Bowden assaulted an official of the National Federation of State High School Associations, and lied to an athlete (that he thinks about as buck-naked?) about the rules letting her train for years under a cloud of deception? Perhaps the NFSHSA should sue him for damages from the assault (how's your neck feeling?) and ban him from coaching for misleading his trainee.
Kelly?? AAGH!!
I ran track in high school, back then we had to wear those little dolphin short shorts, I hated those things, I felt “buck naked” in them, but I had to wear them if I wanted to complete, so you just suck it up and let the upper part of those really white legs hangout.
And the soccer uniform wasnt any better, tight polyester shorts and you had to wear a “protective cup”, we looked like a bunch of clowns with big bulges, it was damn embarrassing. I could have made a stink about it and claimed Christians shouldn’t be dressed down like this, but that is not the American way, if you don’t like the rules, then don’t play, its that simple.
Now the coach touching an official should get the coach banned for life, I played soccer with a guy who touched an official, he was banned for life from playing soccer in So. Cal.
Wouldn't a form fitting track suit be forbidden anyway? I mean, isnt she already compromising her 'faith' by wearing the track suit to begin with?
This is a ploy to get a free-ride at some easily duped university. I expect to see documentary called "J. Kelly a Profile in Courage" very soon.
PS I saw the 'scarf' in question. It was more like a hood in my humble opinion
Again the Religion card is played. Coments from the mother and daughter themselves here.
http://md.milesplit.us/meets/29331
Again the Religion card is played. Coments from the mother and daughter themselves here.
http://md.milesplit.us/meets/29331
I'm confused, I thought the hijab, and covering women in general, had nothing to do with Islam, but was an Arabic tradition. But here we have muslims arguing that it is mandated by Islam and therefor they are being subject to religious discrimination.
Is is mandated by Islam? Or is it just a non-Islamic tradition? Perhaps it just depends on which is more convenient to prove victimization.
It's just a non-Islamic tradition and has nothing to do with islam if the wearing of the hijab is used by non-muslims to show how Islam oppresses women.
But the head covering morphs into a Quranic mandate if a muslim wants to wear a hijab in an athletic event or into a voting booth or to get a driver's license.
Sue! Make MONEY from the infidels. Push us around, sob and whine and demand demand demand. Poor, poor Muslims...
You are the frogs in the pot. YOU are the ones raising the temperature of America a degree at a time. YOU are the ones who will suddenly find yourselves in BOILING water.
"It started off with the hood," says Juashaunna's mother Sarah. "He didn't say anything about an undergarment or shirt. He said the hood. The hood had to come off."
Hmm...do you think the mother could be lying?
If she lost out on running in front of the scouts it doesn't matter anyway; she's at the right age for marriage and shouldn't be dreaming of doing anything with her life anyway. It's un-Islamic.
What with the ‘leader of the free world’, G.W. Dihimmi Bush, cavorting in the Middle East, as we speak, with swords, toys, other bribe trifles wantonly bestowed upon him by his most esteemed Arabic princes while he stupidly peddles American weaponry to our mortal enemies; I can’t say I have much hope of standing against the 'spiritual' whims of some incensed muslim, dowry queen, track star. Give her what she wants so we remain on the ‘benevolent’ side of our Mohammedan invaders (at least for the moment)!
"Juashaunna's convinced she missed a chance to shine for college scouts. There 'was a lot of recruiters at this meet,' she says."
-- from the article above
The kind of dress favored dress worn by this student is unlikely to find favor with other students, with faculty and administratiors, and above all with the alumni, and hence, will not find favor with recruiters or, later on, with those who sell their smile for endorsement money.
It appears that her head-covering was not the cause of her being told she could not participate. Clearly she is looking for trouble, looking to make this into an issue in which Islam can be dragged in. That, here, is not the case.
But what if the hijab had been banned, for all kinds of reasons, just as such headgear is banned for pilots? What about it? She is not in a Muslim country. The Free Exercise Clause does not provide an absolute rule. Regulation by the government may impinge on the "free exercise" of religion because of a compelling state interest. And it is unclear, from the article above, if there is sufficient "state action" to trigger a constitutional challenge. Clearly she is out to make trouble. But it is she who will in the end be sorry, she who will repel those "recruiters" whom she is so interested in attracting for what she fondly believes could be a "college" education.
In France, some Muslim girls were egged on by others, to challenge the long-established rules of the French laic state, and defying those rules, they wore hijabs to school, making a religio-political statement that the French recognized at once as a challenge to their legal and political institutions, and they were having none of it. The French state did not yield but won "la guerre des foulards" and that was the end of it.
Something of the sort is being attempted by this girl, and her backers, here, but what makes t3he matter a little more confusing is that what disqualified her from entry was not her head-covering but her violation of other dress rules having nothing to do with Islam. In her eagerness to make herself into a Muslim victim, she has decided to pretend that the reason was other than what it was.
She's looking for trouble. One hopes she gets it, not as the "victim" she purports to be, but as the aggressor she is.
If she wants to be a Muslim, why the hell is she competing in track and field anyway? Why is she running cross-country without a brother or her father running with her?
These creatures are very inconsistent in their beliefs, and that inconsistency has a purpose.
These Muslims sure are a high maintenance bunch of whiners, aren't they?
If this girl only knew of the Vitamin D she's missing out on by wearing this stupid head cover. High maintenance and ignorant. What a terrible combination.
Why can't they go and live in their own Islamic countries?
Why do they have to come here and demand things, things Islamic? If Islam is what you want, why not stay in your own Islamic country? Sounds hypocritical to me.
Why can't they go and live in their own Islamic countries?
Why do they have to come here and demand things, things Islamic? If Islam is what you want, why not stay in your own Islamic country? Sounds hypocritical to me.
The less pious among them ("hypocrites") choose to stay amongst us the kuffar to enjoy the material benefits of our advanced, (suicidally) tolerant societies - benefits that the Muslims will never enjoy in the backward, impoverished and oppressive Islamic hellholes whence they fled.
The more pious and devout Muslims stay amongst us because they believe that all lands belong to Allah and must become Islamic, and it is their obligation, as Allah's mujaheedin, to bring about this transformation by spreading their faith by all means necessary, be it the sword (jihad, which clever Muslims and the fifth column of pseudo-academicians and professional apologists for Islam interpret as "inner spiritual struggle"), or da'wa, or taqiya, or the most dangerous weapon which the Muslims yield, the weapon that brought to their knees powerful ancient civilizations - the awesome weapon of demography.
Do not underestimate the threat posed by the Muslim womb.
Sorry for the OT. I just tried to flag a pro-jihadist video on youtube.. one that showed a contingent of SOWdis and other jihadist interlopers acting as para-military units in Bosnia, which last time I checked was part of Europe.
They were massing with jihadist flags and they did things that completely outside all norms of militay behavior. They abused and beheaded Serbian POWs they had managed to capture.
And they were mugging for the camera as they did. They comments to this video were eexclusively of encouragement and of enthusiasm.
The author of this video had set the controls to where he could chose the comments to allow.
When I tried to flag this outrageous video and the comments by Youtube members to it I was confronted with the message that in order to flag for racist it had to be racism against a "protected" group.
I guess that means Europeans and Serbs in this case need not apply?
Here's their new "policy" re. flagging videos on Youtube: [I just wanted everyone to know about this]
What do all the flagging terms mean?
We've given our definitions of YouTube's flagging terms below:
1. Graphic sexual activity
"Graphic sexual activity" describes content which contains actual visible or implied sex acts.
2. Nudity
"Nudity" refers to exposed or see-through coverage of areas typically covered by a bathing suit or underwear. Sometimes nudity is allowed on YouTube, depending on the context.
3. Suggestive, but without nudity
"Suggestive" content refers to materials with sexual themes that do not necessarily depict sexual activity or nudity. Sexually suggestive content may not be suitable for all audiences and may include fetish-related content.
4. Shocking or disgusting content
"Shocking or disgusting content" refers to disturbing imagery, such as graphic depictions of violence, accidents or gore, which lack an appropriate context.
5. Promotes hatred or violence against a protected group
Hate speech is content that promotes or encourages hatred or violence toward a group based on race or ethnic origin, religion, disability, gender, age, veteran status, and sexual orientation/gender identity.
6. Harmful dangerous acts
"Harmful dangerous acts" may include content which is depicts behavior likely to cause serious injury or death to a third party.
Such a charming pious family who take their 'religious obligation' seriously...not
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=57102939
Hmm, Tissa,
Very good detective work, girlfriend, and very interesting. On the website, these folks have pictures of a puppy, a cat, and poems about how much she likes it when he touches her while they're dancing. Um, excuse me, but isn't that all rather un-Islamic? I guess when you are a Muslim working to make a political statement in my country and trying to get the sympathy vote to confuse and make to feel guilty all of us normal, thinking, non-bleeding hearts, and by doing so, change our laws in favor of Muslim activities and produce dhimmitude among the rest of us, it would behoove you not to have a website that clearly shows you are lying through your teeth.
Re exsrtbrown;
I think your onto something here. An Islamic games. The mind boggles!!!.
Where events could include:
1) Spear the Infidel
2) Catch the Kaffir
3) Hang the Israelite
4) Beat the burka
5) Injure the Insurgent
6) Besiege the Bible
7) Parade the pig
8) Koranic killing fields
9) Lampoon the Lackey
10) Paste the Pope
High class Islamic female athletes, although banned from competition proper, could participate in such events as;
1) Beat the bitch up
2) Shout for slaughter
3) Race and rape
4) Judge the jilbab
5) Agree with Allah
6) Pin the tail on the camel
7 Harry the hamburger
8) Marry the martyr
9) Bleed for brethren
10) Date with danger
All events would run in accordance to strict Islamic law, and competitors would only be excused participation, on the grounds of Martyrdom - Rape or Pedophilia, as practiced by the games one and only sponsor, the late - great - prophet Mohammad. (may pigs shit upon him).
A problem which is widely ignored is the Anti-American nature of Islam.
Muslims are making America more Islamic by installing mosques, halal food supliers, doing public calls for prayer, etc. YET their views are Anti-American and their loyalties lie with the Umma - people who are trying to overthrow democracies!
Islam is simply Anti-American, anti-Western and anti-democratic. The more Islam you have, the less like America it becomes.
""I said doing that would be almost like me sending her out there buck naked," says Roosevelt track coach Anthony Bowden. "I can't do that."
.....hey buffoon. none of the other kids had Muslim headgear....are you saying all the other kids were running track buck naked......
....apparently this is a dhimmicrat, moveon.org type coach.....
If your religion doesn't allow you to take part unless you are given special treatment, don't take part.
This young woman should be defending her right NOT to wear a veil, rather than fighting to get special religious treatment BECAUSE she wears a veil.
When will they wake up to the reason they wear the veil?
Allah Schmallah,
I think the beheadings fall under:
6. Harmful dangerous acts
"Harmful dangerous acts" may include content which is depicts behavior likely to cause serious injury or death to a third party.
That third party being US non-Muslims!
Isn't that DUH moment for anyone with a lick of sense???
"When will they wake up to the reason they wear the veil?
Posted by: DaveMate "
...at the time of their honor killing....
Sorry, guys, but again, can't we be better than them? Good lord, who cares if she wears a modest headdress of some sort? And for Yog's sake, how do differently colored undergarments impact on a track meet? We should not be discouraging young Muslim women who are coming halfway (i.e. that she participates in such athletic events at all) from integrating into society. Why are all you Christians so damned narrow-minded about making minor accommodations to Muslims to demonstrate that yes, this is a tolerant society?
Why are all you Christians so damned narrow-minded about making minor accommodations to Muslims to demonstrate that yes, this is a tolerant society?
Intolerance cannot be defeated by tolerance. The Moslems are playing war here, so like it or not it's a win/lose game into which we're drawn.
The Arabian pagans were the first to try appeasing the Moslems, and they failed. Then the Arabian Jews. Same result. Then the Byzantinian Christians gave it a shot. Asia Minor is now an almost totally Moslem subcontinent.
And so on ad nauseum, for the past 1,385 yrs, the placate-the-Moslems tactic has always failed and is failing as we speak across the globe.
And here you are suggesting we placate the Moslems.
"Good lord, who cares if she wears a modest headdress of some sort?"
...Muslims insist upon it...just like they are insisting all things become Muslim....THey are taking away your freedom , one inch at a time...
"Why are all you Christians so damned narrow-minded about making minor accommodations to Muslims to demonstrate that yes, this is a tolerant society?"
This has nothing to do with Christianity. It has everything to do with playing a structured sport, as part of a team, and obeying the same rules the rest of the team obeys. The lesson to be taught to this young muslim girl is that she is being treated like everyone else on the team and that she is expected to integrate herself into the team and be a part of it, not an exception to it. To make a special exception for her is to do her a disservice.
The girl and her family are asking for an accommodation of a religious practice at a secular event. By wearing the covering on her head she is announcing that she is different. Would you agree to having all the Christians sporting shirts with big crosses on them? And Jews, should they be out on the field in their Yarmulke, or whatever? Just what we need, everyone wearing their religion around the sports field. See where your "minor accomodations" take us?
Tolerance is not created by making exceptions to the rules.
Why are all you Christians so damned narrow-minded about making minor accommodations to Muslims to demonstrate that yes, this is a tolerant society?
Posted by: Karl Pov at January 16, 2008 1:39 PM
Wow - you're ignorant.
Hey Karl, why don't they go and live in their own Islamic countries if they love Islam so much they can't remove a headscarf?
Answer:___________________________________________
OT
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23065625-2,00.html?from=mostpop
cumulusnine-
You are right that the rules change depending on what they are trying to prove.
And the comments to that article-
There were a lot of anti-muslim comments there and a lot of hate whitey comments, some seemed to be from nation of islam types, others just plain black hatred for the US and whitey. Multiculti seems to be falling apart if those comments are any indication.
Karl is asking that the Muslim girl be given special treatment because she is a Muslim.
"...Why are all you Christians so damned narrow-minded about making minor accommodations to Muslims..."
Let's put that shoe on the other foot.
Why are Muslims so narrow minded about making NO accommodations for non-Muslims in Muslim countries?
No special treatment for Muslims. None. When Muslims start treating Christians, Jews, pagans, non-believers, etc. with the same respect they DEMAND from us, then we'll talk. Until that time, this young lady will have to choose, between making a political statement and performing in the sport she loves. Just like the rest of us.
As I seem to remember , NIKE have a full body running suit with head covering ...ah Islam by corporate stealth. This is a silly post , the girl is disadvantaging herself by insisting on adherence to supposed Islamic tradition (yes she's a living metaphor ). But its a bit churlish to forbid what is ostensibly a girl's plea for modesty in a sport in which the female track and field 'gear' would make the swimmers blush.
Sadly, but not surprisingly, most of the participants in this forum insist on their right to the sort of Muslim-bashing which gives Islamophobia a bad name. They refuse to see the difference between inane accommodations to Muslims -- allowing cab drivers to refuse passengers with seeing eye dogs, letting supermarket sales clerks call someone else whenever someone puts bacon on the belt, allowing young women to mask themselves at school -- and the sort of minor accommodation which characterizes a tolerant society, which is all this young woman needed in order to participate in a public athletic competition (a highly atypical and, in my view, praiseworthy thing for a young Muslim woman).
And no, I do not see any reason to compete with Islam for the title of Least Tolerant Society.
Tolerance is bullshit. It's got nothing to do with being considerate of other people's feelings and everything to do with controlling the masses.
But you didn't answer my question, Karl Pov, so I'll ask it again:
Why are Muslims so narrow minded about making NO accommodations for non-Muslims in Muslim countries?
Or are Americans the only people who are to be held to a higher standard?
"...and the sort of minor accommodation which characterizes a tolerant society,..."
.....it is precisely this type of forced intrusion into a tolerant society by members of an intolerant society that creates friction and will ultimately lead to violence....if people want to adhere to these "minor accomodations," let them do so in an Islamic country...
....and before things get nasty...Ban Muslim Immigration...
>But you didn't answer my question, Karl Pov, so
>I'll ask it again:
>Why are Muslims so narrow minded about making
>NO accommodations for non-Muslims in Muslim
>countries?
Their religion makes them that way. That is part of the reason it is inappropriate to a decent, tolerant society. And I don't see much possibility of reforming Islam. My hope for future generations is the wholesale rejection of this wretched excuse for a religion.
>Or are Americans the only people who are to be
>held to a higher standard?
Not sure I have a higher standard for the United States. It's just that I like to see the United States meeting that standard. The reason I dislike Islam is that it more or less demands of the countries where it is dominant that they fail the standards of courtesy and tolerance which I think should be routine everywhere.
Sadly, but not surprisingly, most of the participants in this forum insist on their right to the sort of Muslim-bashing which gives Islamophobia a bad name.
Um, Islamophobia has a bad name, already. Islamophobia is verboten, in the glorious multicultural United States. If one is an Islamophobe, he must conceal it more carefully than a jihadist hides his explosive vest.
Guess what, Karl--there's no such thing as Islamophobia. Phobias are defined as "irrational fears".
Well, I don't know about you, Karl, but I find Islam to be pretty disturbing, especially the way it is beginning to play out, in the U.S..
Ashura parades scare the hell out of me, and they should scare you, too, unless you get a kick out watching men, covered in their own blood, chanting, and beating their breasts as they troop down the main drag of your city. That's something I hope I'll never have to see, live. Is that irrational?
Gun wielding fathers, out to reclaim their honor at the expense of the lives of their daughters scare me. Anyone can get caught by a stray round. Is that irrational?
I could go on, but I won't belabor the point.
Say I do as you ask, and give the athlete the benefit of the doubt. I'm willing to do that, even though I'm one the Christians to whom you so object.
Her coach should have known the dress code for the track meet, and should have made his Muslim athlete aware of the rules, in advance. Such things are the responsibility of a coach. Don't you agree?
If the coach did know the rules, but misled Miss Kelly about them, about their importance, or didn't inform her at all, then the coach is once more responsible.
I'm of two minds when it comes to the Hijab Jihad.
Miss Kelly is probably a convert to Islam (judging by her surname), and her desire to wear her hijab may be very sincere. I don't think it would have done any harm to have allowed her to participate in the meet, as long as she could prove that the hood was secure, and would pose no danger to the other runners.
However, I don't believe the rules should be changed, to allow for "religious" headgear. You see, a young convert to Islam might be very devout. She might believe that Islam is a peaceful religion, and if she finds it to be so, God bless her.
Yet, there are others for whom the hijab is not about modesty, but about politics. I've observed that these are generally cases of younger girls, who wouldn't be required by Islam to wear a hijab, in the first place.
They are used as pawns by their parents and probably their entire community to try to force change in situations where a hijab might pose a real danger to the athlete's opponents or teammates.
These adults aren't concerned about safety. They aren't concerned about whether or not their daughters can compete. (All the daughters have to do is remove the hijab for the duration of the event.) They are concerned about gradually forcing the Shariah law that they favor, on everyone. It starts small. Ask some of our European and British commenters. They know.
"...minor accommodation which characterizes a tolerant society, which is all this young woman needed in order to participate in a public athletic competition (a highly atypical and, in my view, praiseworthy thing for a young Muslim woman)."
It's becoming less atypical all the time, Karl, for parents to insist upon accomodations. My pity is for the little girls (pre-adolescent) whose parents think of them as tools to be used.
And such effective tools they are! By the time the press arrives, the girls are hysterical and in tears, while the parents huff and puff their righteous indignation into the news. This is what I mean, when I refer to Hijab Jihad.
Yes, it's praiseworthy for a young Muslim woman to "guard her modesty", but as someone else pointed out, the modesty issue falls apart, when one examines the rest of the girl's tracksuit.
Where does a society draw the line? Lines must be drawn, Karl, whether we like it, or not. Otherwise, all is chaos.
Abscedere, I don't think we're that far apart. Yes, a line must be drawn. What I object to is the attitude that we mustn't cede a nanometer to Muslim sensibilities because this means that we will find ourselves living under Sharia the next day. I say that Islam should be treated like any other religion -- and here in the United States, we believe in making reasonable accommodations for another's belief.
If there are actually rules she's violating (and that really hasn't been made clear), we could ask whether those rules have been applied consistently in the past (apparently not), and whether those rules really make any sense. Looking at her costume as shown in our local paper, it doesn't seem to present any safety problem, or give her any advantage.
Sure, maybe this is about political points. But we need to analyze the matter on its merits, not on our suspicions of others' motives.
We're better than they are. Tolerance is one of the things that make us better.
If you want to object to my use of "Islamophobia" because it implies irrationality, that's fine with me, though I will probably continue to use the term. No, I don't think there is anything irrational about objecting to female genital mutilation, homicidal male relatives, hatred of Jews, territorial intransigence, sadistic bullying, or any of the other loathsome aspects which find justication in Islamic societies.
Just because some of us may disagree about what constitutes a "reasonable accommodation" doesn't justify anyone calling us Muslim-bashers. Name calling doesn't further anyone's understanding.
Hey there, Karl :-)
Maybe we don't differ as much as I thought.
I guess we'll never see eye to eye on the term 'Islamophobia', but that's just a trifle.
"I say that Islam should be treated like any other religion -- and here in the United States, we believe in making reasonable accommodations for another's belief."
I don't believe Islam can be treated like any other religion, because it isn't like any other religion. Islam is as much a system of law as it is a religion, maybe more so.
I realize there are other religions, Judaism leaps to mind, where certain issues germane to Jewish laws are handled internally, within the community. There's nothing wrong with this, since these laws (as far as I know) aren't in contradiction to State and Federal laws of the U.S.. Jews don't impose their laws on everyone else. They don't even try.
Muslims, on the other hand, want to impose their laws on every person on earth. Ask any Muslim. Islamic laws are odious, and Islamic punishments for breaking these laws are horrific. Now, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but this makes me more than a bit wary of making concessions.
Concessions to Islam are snowflakes, and have a way of becoming a blizzards. Concessions made are never enough. Alway, more is demanded. Not asked. Demanded.
You either get more Islam or more freedom. They can't both peacefully co-exist and the more freedom we give them the more Islam we get.
You're not stupid Karl, so where is the disconnect? In a perfect world we could turn the other cheek and everybody would hold hands and go skipping off into the sunset. But we are living in a war zone and we have every right to protect ourselves from the aim of Islam, which is world domination, enslavement and dissolution of entire cultures and the eradicating of any shred of evidence that those cultures ever existed.
I'm not seeing our guys over in Iraq demanding that the girls over there wear mini-skirts or that the people of Iraq must go to church on Sundays, but I am seeing Christian Egyptian girls being kidnapped, raped and forcibly converted and married to their rapists. I'm also seeing Islamic clerics in Algeria encouraging citizens to inform on any of their neighbors who convert to Christianity, with the requisite punishment. Then there's the Islamo idiots in Iran who want to flood the tomb of an ancient Persian King so as to erase any pre-Islamic culture from the minds of the people.
Don't tell me about how put upon the Muslims are. If you back a dog into a corner and poke it in the face with a stick long enough, eventually it will bite you.
Eugene Volokh offers a sane and thoughtful take on this issue (as he so often does):
http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_01_13-2008_01_19.shtml#1200613003
Seamus,
Thanks for the link. Mr. Volokh expressed very nicely what I was fumbling to say.
I just saw the news on tv and decided to browse the net for its complete news. I did see briefly of that girl running wearing headscarf but she still wore conventional scanty track suit. That's nuts. I mean, ok she wanted to keep her islamic value by keeping the scarf (so men can't see the 'beauty' of her face) but she forced herself to wear track suit??? And she then got mad coz of the scarf get her disqualified?
Kelly is being TOO religious fanatic. I live in Indonesia, moslem is majority here. Wait, I'm a Chinese (racial background), Christian, and gay (fanatic moslem native Indonesian hate those 3 things). Anyway, even in Indonesia, where islam prevails and dominates, moslem girls don't dress like moslem girls in middle east. Some, yes, they cover their head with scarf and wear loose dress even from childhood. But there r many moslem girls too who dress freely.
Being surrounded by moslem in LARGE number, that was my FIRST TIME ever in my life that I saw a girl competed in running wearing HEAD SCARF! Even indonesian moslem female runners don't practise that!
I honestly support the disqualification. It's plain silly to wear scarf. Not to mention, the sweat in the head being contained inside the scarf... eeww! Doesn't Kelly know anything about HYGIENE?
Kelly definitely needs to come to Indonesia to LEARN more about 'PROPER' dressing code for female moslem athletes!
PS: Headscarf and jilbab don't guarantee their wearer as religiously faithful female moslems. In Indonesia, there r many illegal/self-produced straight porn videos and pix showing native Indonesian moslem girls perform sexual acts while still wearing the headscarf!
Chimera Spectre, excellent post!
I think it's interesting that the same people who think that we are not being fair to this poor Muslim girl are the same people that had a cow when Judge Roy Moore of Alabama defied a federal judge's order to move his Ten Commandments monument from the rotunda of the state courthouse. To both Judge Moore and Miss Kelly, these were/are religious issues. Both people involved held that removal violated their religious rights. Both people were/are expressing themselves religiously in a public arena where other people would see the expression of their faith and be affected by it. So should we let Miss Kelly wear her head covering when she runs and have the Ten Commandments monument put back on the state courthouse grounds in Alabama, or should we accept that certain regulations or rules of law are made that we all have to abide by?
It is very clear that many of the Muslims in our midst have no respect for our laws or traditions and believe that all they have to do is pitch a fit and they can change our laws and traditions. This is not just about one teenager's head covering.
Do any of you over the age of forty ever remember anyone's parents suing a coach or a sports organization when we were kids because you didn't get to do something you thought you should?
IF THATS THE CASE,HER RELIGION DOES NOT ALLOW HER TO HAVE A MALE COACH,WHICH I BELIEVE THE NAME ANTHONY IS A MALE WHICH IS NOT A DIRECT RELATION,SO SMARTEN UP ISLAM SHARIA,SHE HAS NO CASE THEN.NEENER NEENER NEENER
@Isabellathecrusader: Thnx :) Your posts r very out-spoken, too.
Apparently, moslems wherever they r, they try to spread their customs among the non-moslems. Whether they r majority or minority, they keep forcing the non-moslems to accept the moslem way. If we protest, they call us intolerant (duh!).
As a non-moslem who live in moslem-majority country, I must say that the moslems r very selfish! Indonesia is NOT a moslem country. There r other religions: Christian, Catholic, Hindu, Buddha, Shinto. Still, the moslem feel that it's 'right' to air afternoon prayer on ALL tv channels interrupting all tv shows for 1-2 minute everyday around 6pm. Not to mention, the mosques also air their prayers 5x a day OUT LOUD. It gets more annoying during the fasting month. The moslems will make LOUD noises at dusk to wake people up to eat. Problem is, the non moslems are ALSO awaken! For non-moslems, it's VERY ANNOYING. If they call us 'intolerant', where is THEIR tolerancy towards us the non moslem???
I read on the web that an imam in UK condemned UK's gay lifestyle and said the gay deserve to die. I mean, didnt he know WHERE he was? He's not in middle east anymore. In UK, gay marriage is legal. That imam is a MINORITY. And minority should follow the majority (if you take example of moslem Indonesian as the majority in Indonesia). But islam knows NO minority in their dictionary.
The head-cover has been an issue everywhere in non-moslem country. If I'm not mistaken, also in UK, there's a moslem female teacher who also sued for discrimination coz the school where she worked didnt allow her to wear EXTREME head and body covering.
Those kinds of fanatic women also have to learn from Indonesian female moslem! Headscarf is ok as long as they know WHERE and WHEN to wear. But I do object with extreme body and head covering. I once saw an arabic woman shopping in Jakarta mall. She wore extreme covering (black in color) and all I could see was her eyes! I found her very SPOOKY. Like ghost... I admit that Indonesian moslems can be as annoying as other moslems but, in female dressing, at least Indonesian female moslems have more brain.
Im not an expert, but I think that maybe the moslem invented the moslem female dress to protect them from the harsh middle eastern sunlight and sand storm. Which makes sense that they should dress that way, THERE. But if they insist on dressing like that in non-middle eastern countries, they look spooky. Not to mention, idiotic.
The moslems in non moslems countries are screaming for tolerancy. But THEY themselves should have given MORE tolerancy towards the non-moslems...
Those who believe that hijab is mandatory in Islam must have quite a time explaining Islam as Irshad Manji understands it:
http://www.irshadmanji.com/
No hijab there.
Not much covering up there.
Yeah Nazzy, a lot of inconsistencies. That's one more reason not to take this girl seriously.
Chimera, is that really true, that Muslimas in Indonesia have a choice about whether to wear the scarf or not? If that's so I wonder what the purpose of Muslimas wearing the full ninja-Hefty bag look in a mall in my country is all about. Could it be an in-your-face political statement that has nothing to do with one's religious beliefs? Could it be that using the religious excuse, as opposed to the political excuse, gets you more bang for your buck? It's been my experience that Muslims will use anything to get their way, and as the mom of grown kids who still remembers tantrums they threw when they were little, the best thing to do is to spank them and put them to bed, not give into their nonsense, unless we'd like to have lots more of the same.
Oh, and BTW, the teacher in England who insisted on wearing the full on Hefty bag outfit with the eye slits admitted to the T.V. reporter that she interviewed with a male, as well as a female headmistress NOT wearing the Hefty bag, so how is it that she couldn't be seen by men that she wasn't married to when she most certainly was seen by one when she interviewed for the job? Lying sack of crap!
@Isabellathecrusader: Yes, female Indo moslems seem to have free will whether she wants to wear or not to wear head scarf/jilbab (here, we call it jilbab). Usually (but not always), pretty girls like to show off their face while the ugly ones prefer head scarf. For older women, they ALWAYS wear head scarf for formal occassion. Roughly, u can say 70% female moslem here dont wear headscarf (except on religious occasions). Female moslem celebrities and singers dont wear head scarf too. Well, Indonesia is indeed known as MODERATE 'moslem country'. But for other islamic aspects, they can be very persistent in forcing moslem values.
As for Indo female moslem athletes, they NEVER EVER wear jilbab or head scarf during sport competition or training. That's why Kelly "amazed" me!
LOL, Ninja suit? :D Yeah, it does look similar. I cant help shivering when I go to shopping mall in Jakarta and meet a middle eastern woman wearing 'ninja suit'. Coz I will nvr know whteher she carries bomb or not, esp coz in Indo shopping malls, u can find at least 1 Caucasian tourist walking around. WHen I pass such woman, I always pray 'Dont bomb me, Im a Chinese' LOL
Most of Indonesian Chinese (which has pure Chinese blood) indeed dont like moslem native Indonesian, esp after the bloody May 1998 riot in Jakarta which took the lives of many innocent Chinese (they were raped and killed brutally - some men were circumcised forcibly and even had their penises cut off, SO I HEARD). Till now, the case is unsolved and Indonesia government pretends it never happened. The moslems Indo dont like the fact we Chinese 'rule' their economy and also coz we eat PORK! I heard that many moslem men said thankful prayers to their allah before raping Chinese girls :( Many Indo-citizen Chinese girls remain INSANE in mental hospitals coz of that...
Thus, needless to say, we know that if the moslems dont like something or want something, they will speak it out aloud and will do EXTREME way to get what they want. But if we non moslem dont liek something about the msolem, we r not allowed to say/do anything. Where's the tolerancy in that???? As a Chinese guy who survived the HORRIBLE racial and religious riot in Jakarta May riot 1998, it's very traumatic to live in Indonesia :(
Chimera,
That's interesting. In Indonesia, a very Muslim country, Muslim women have a choice. But in places like Canada, Germany and England, Muslim girls have been murdered for refusing to wear the "thing" or may people their dads would like them to. So doing that here in America is not required, just simply chosen. Yes, very interesting.
I'm glad to see you here. I haven't seen your posts before. Are you new? Anyway, welcome aboard! I look forward to chatting with you this year. ; )
That's marry people their dad's want them to.
NFHS Responds to Maryland Track Situation
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Becky Oakes
INDIANAPOLIS, IN (January 17, 2008) - Last Saturday, Juashuanna Kelly, a runner on the girls track team at Theodore Roosevelt High School in Washington, D.C., elected not to compete in the Montgomery Invitational indoor track and field meet in Maryland after meet officials advised her that she would need to replace her undergarment because it violated track and field playing rules published by the National Federation of State High School Association (NFHS).
The NFHS issues the following statement regarding this incident:
"The National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS), the national leadership organization for high school sports and fine arts activities, writes playing rules in 17 sports for boys and girls competition at the high school level, including track and field.
"Rule 4-3-1-d of the NFHS Track and Field and Cross Country Rules Book states that 'Any visible garment(s) worn underneath the uniform top or bottom shall be a single, solid color and unadorned except for 1) a single school name or insignia no more than 2¼ square inches with no dimension more than 2¼ inches and 2) a single, visible manufacturer's logo as per NFHS rules.'
"Using preventive officiating, meet officials at the Montgomery Invitational checked uniforms prior to the events to make sure they complied with NFHS uniform rules. Since Kelly's one-piece undergarment was multi-colored (blue, orange, white), it was in violation of the uniform rules. The meet officials did not disqualify Kelly; they informed her she would have to replace the multi-colored undergarment with a single-colored undergarment, an option which she declined and, thus, did not compete.
"The head covering, which was a part of Kelly's one-piece undergarment, nor the length of the undergarment were in violation of NFHS rules. She could have worn the same style of undergarment, with a head covering, as long as the undergarment was one color throughout the entire piece of clothing. The NFHS track uniform rule was put in place for consistency across the board and for ease in identifying runners at the finish line. Multi-colored undergarments cause greater identification problems for track officials.
"The track uniform is a point of emphasis by the NFHS this year in an effort to have more consistent and widespread enforcement of the rule. Because of her Muslim faith, there were reports that her uniform undergarment was ruled unacceptable on religious grounds. While Kelly's faith requires her to cover all parts of the body except her hands and face, a single-colored undergarment with a hood would have been acceptable both from an NFHS rules standpoint as well as meeting the requirements of her Muslim faith. http://www.nfhs.org/web/2008/01/nfhs_responds_to_maryland_track.aspx
@Isabella: Yes Im new here ^_^ Thx for welcoming here. I hope to be able to chat more too ^_^ At first, I didnt intend to chat long but I guess I couldn't resist it LOL I guess I have so much resentment for living in Indo as a minority (Chinese, Christian, gay) and there's no outlet to pour out my feelings. It feels 'strange' to be able to talk freely like this coz although Indo is supposed to be a democracy country, if u dare speak up like this here, u will either get beaten up or get jailed :(
Yes female moslem here has 'freedom' to decide whether they want to appear islamic or not. I guess, that's coz Indo is not 100% islam, as I said, there r some other religions here. Many moslems here are not devout moslems. As for parents, moslem parents are moderate, I think. But they always want their daughters/sons to marry other moslem people.
Actually it depends on the parents. If the parents r fanatic moslems, they will train their daughetr to wear headscarf or jilbab. But most moslem parents here r poor (that's why Indonesia is neevr prosperous financially). they simply dont hv time to take care of their kids.
As to the article at nfhs, I still think it's OVERACTING to wear either full-body-covering or headscarf for female runners. That sounds like a big joke and again I say that I never see Indonesian moslem female runner wear full-body covering or head scarf when competing or training. Kelly and other fanatic moslem female must visit Indonesia to learn more!!!
I always believe that no matter how u cover yourself, if one has perverted thought towards u, u will still be able to arouse him/her.
@Isabella: Yes Im new here ^_^ Thx for welcoming here. I hope to be able to chat more too ^_^ At first, I didnt intend to chat long but I guess I couldn't resist it LOL I guess I have so much resentment for living in Indo as a minority (Chinese, Christian, gay) and there's no outlet to pour out my feelings. It feels 'strange' to be able to talk freely like this coz although Indo is supposed to be a democracy country, if u dare speak up like this here, u will either get beaten up or get jailed :(
Yes female moslem here has 'freedom' to decide whether they want to appear islamic or not. I guess, that's coz Indo is not 100% islam, as I said, there r some other religions here. Many moslems here are not devout moslems. As for parents, moslem parents are moderate, I think. But they always want their daughters/sons to marry other moslem people.
Actually it depends on the parents. If the parents r fanatic moslems, they will train their daughetr to wear headscarf or jilbab. But most moslem parents here r poor (that's why Indonesia is neevr prosperous financially). they simply dont hv time to take care of their kids.
As to the article at nfhs, I still think it's OVERACTING to wear either full-body-covering or headscarf for female runners. That sounds like a big joke and again I say that I never see Indonesian moslem female runner wear full-body covering or head scarf when competing or training. Kelly and other fanatic moslem female must visit Indonesia to learn more!!!
I always believe that no matter how u cover yourself, if one has perverted thought towards u, u will still be able to arouse him/her.