"I remember her telling me that her dad told her he would take her back to Egypt and have her killed. He said it's OK to do that over there if you dishonor your family."

SearchingforSaid.jpg
Searching for a monster

"Patricia had told her that since they are Muslim that the daughter was only allowed to date other Muslims. Yaser had found out she went on a date with a non-Muslim and became very angry and threatened her with bodily harm."

That's an honor killing, folks. It has everything to do with Islamic cultural attitudes. Discussion here. This is what American Muslim advocacy groups ought to be talking about, if they had an ounce of integrity, and any interest at all in promoting sane and humanistic values among Muslims and all people. Their constant finger-pointing, blame-shifting, and evasion of responsibility has a human cost: how many more honor killings are we going to see among Muslims in America before they own up to the reality of the practice and begin to teach against it? How many more is it going to take before government and law enforcement officials begin to pressure them to do so?

The correct answer should be -- why, no more. No more at all. Amina and Sarah Said should be alive today, and the idea that a man can walk around in Texas believing that it's perfectly right for him to murder his daughters because they are dating non-Muslims -- since, after all, it is perfectly fine to do that sort of thing back home in Egypt -- is abominable. It is monstrous.

Where is Hooper? Where is Al-Marayati? Where is Hussein Ibish? Where are the feminists?

Of course, the Muslim spokesmen will say, This has nothing to do with Islam. Logged and noted, thank you, gentlemen. Now: what are you and your organizations doing, or planning to do, to try to prevent Muslims like Yaser Abdel Said from thinking that this is a perfectly acceptable thing to do on Islamic grounds -- as, after all, seems to be the position of the Parliament in modern, moderate Jordan?

"Lewisville cab driver had been investigated for previous abuse," by Tanya Eiserer, Scott Farwell and Scott Goldstein for The Dallas Morning News (thanks to all who sent this in):

Sarah Said's final phone call rang into the Irving police dispatcher about 7:30 p.m. on New Year's Day: "I'm dying, I'm dying, I'm dying ..."

About an hour later, a man walked up to an orange cab parked at the Omni Mandalay Hotel in Irving. He discovered carnage – the bullet-shredded bodies of 17-year-old Sarah and 18-year-old Amina Said, honor students and athletes at Lewisville High School.

Almost immediately, police issued an arrest warrant for the girls' father, 50-year-old Yaser Said, an Egyptian-born cab driver who family members said was given to fits of violence, threats and gun-waving rants about how Western culture was corrupting the chastity of his daughters.

In the week since their murders, friends and relatives on Patricia Said's side of the family say they have been haunted by that final phone call, a cry for help that went unanswered for years. They say Mr. Said physically and emotionally abused his children.

In October 1998, when Amina and Sarah were 9 and 8 years old, they accused their father of sexual abuse.

The allegations were reported to the Hill County sheriff's office, where the girls told a detective their father had been touching them inappropriately. Amina told authorities she had been penetrated at least once.

Their mother swore in an affidavit that the allegations were true.

In early January 1999, the two girls told authorities that they had lied about the allegations because they didn't want to attend rural Covington schools and wanted to go live with their grandmother. A district judge later dropped the charges of aggravated sexual assault against Mr. Said.

George Burnett, a fire chief in the small town of Covington, visited the Saids' homestead a few times when their cows got out. He said the girls "were sent home several times from school with lice problems and asked not to return until they got it straightened out."

[...]

Mr. Said often espoused his version of traditional Middle Eastern values, prompting speculation the murders were "honor killings," an ancient Arab tribal custom in which the man of the family kills women he believes have shamed the family. The practice is now widely repudiated.

In a brief phone call in which she declined to comment further, his wife, Patricia, angrily rejected the notion that Mr. Said's Muslim religion or culture had anything to do with the murders.

Her son, Islam, 19, agreed.

"Why is it every time an Arab father kills a daughter, it's an honor killing?" Islam said. "It didn't have anything to do with that." He declined to answer other questions.

Uh huh. Well, unfortunately, there is a great deal of evidence in this same article that that's exactly what it is. Read on.

Mr. Said has not been arrested, and some family members suspect he may have fled to Egypt, which he visits each year.

[..]

By most accounts, the family did not regularly attend religious services, or practice daily Muslim prayer.

Cultural differences

But cultural differences – especially divisions over gender roles – led to tension in the family.

[...]

Once, he shot out the tires on his wife's car to keep her home. Another time, Mrs. Moggio said, he blocked her car in a driveway because he thought she was going to help her sister and children escape.

Years later, when Amina was a sophomore at Euless Trinity High School, a friend said she showed up at school with red welts across her arms and back. Another time, Amina confided that her father had kicked her in the face.

"He found notes from her boyfriend," said a 17-year-old Trinity senior, who asked not to be identified. "Her lips were pretty much attached to her braces, but they wouldn't take her to the doctor because her family feared her father would be taken to jail."

She said the abuse continued and threats intensified.

"I remember her telling me that her dad told her he would take her back to Egypt and have her killed," she said. "He said it's OK to do that over there if you dishonor your family."

Move to Lewisville

Eventually, friends and family members say, Mr. Said moved his family from Euless to Lewisville to break up his daughter and her boyfriend. Some Muslims believe that it can be religiously acceptable for Muslim men to marry non-Muslim women but that it is never acceptable for a Muslim woman to marry outside the faith.

Friends said the sisters suffered quietly through a life controlled by their father, a life in which social interaction with their peers was forbidden. One friend said Mr. Said installed spy software on the home computer and plotted with a relative to tap the phone lines.

Sarah never shared her address with her closest friends for fear of what her father might say or do if they came by the house, said Zohair Zaidi, a devout Muslim whom Sarah turned to in her quest to become more religious.

This is the fellow who showed up here not too long ago. It seems now that it was indeed he who came here, although he remains the only source for any inclination on the girls' part to become more faithful Muslims -- and the non-Muslim boyfriends don't seem to have known about it either.

Still, Sarah knew her father would have disapproved of their friendship, primarily because Mr. Zaidi is male.

Ongoing threats

"She always used that term, 'He would kill me, I would be dead,' " said Mr. Zaidi, the 18-year-old college freshman. She kept his phone number under a female name in her cellphone.

Justin Finn, an 18-year-old senior at Lewisville High School, said Amina told him her father walked into her bedroom with a gun about two years ago.

"He was basically threatening her and waving around the gun," he said. "He was basically trying to send a message, 'You do what I say or I'm going to do something to you.' "

Relatives say the girls kept much of their lives hidden from their father. Amina had been awarded a $20,000 scholarship for college. Sarah dreamed of a job in the medical profession.

"School was everything to them. That was their way out. They were active in sports. That's what made them happy," said the girls' aunt, Jean Martinez.

Massoud Nasseri, owner of King Cab, has known Mr. Said for a number of years.

He described him as a good father and a decent man.

He said Muslim children who are born here or spend most of their lives here are "caught between a rock and a hard place." They want to do what their parents want, but they also want to follow their friends.

"They always battle within themselves about what they need to do," he said. "I call it the clash of the culture and that's what it comes down to. The kids were born here and part of their blood is Muslim, part of their blood is Christian, and they are caught in between."

Running away

By December, both of his daughters were dating, and tempers were boiling.

"Me mina and my mom r running away!" Sarah Said wrote to Mr. Zaidi in an instant message conversation, according to a transcript he saved. "My dad found out abt mina and is goin to kill us."

Mr. Zaidi was concerned. He asked his friend whether her father had threatened harm.

"B4 he tld me that he was goin to put bullet thru her head...today he tld me to get used to my sis bc shes not goin to b w us lng," she wrote.

Mr. Zaidi never knew where the Saids were going. Sarah was too afraid to tell him, he said.

On Christmas Day, Mrs. Said, her daughters and their boyfriends fled the state. They stopped at a relative's house in Kansas and then rented an apartment under an assumed name in Tulsa.

Mr. Said had filed a missing persons report with Lewisville police on Dec. 26.

Mrs. Said called Lewisville police Dec. 27 to tell them she and her daughters were safe. The report reads:

"Patricia stated that she was not going to call back again, as she was in great fear of her life. Patricia said she is very fearful of her husband harming her and/or her children, which is the reason she left her husband. Patricia further advised she and her children, Sarah and Amina, are just fine, and are going to continue hiding from her husband."

The next day an officer filed a reported recommending the case be closed, citing an interview with one of Mrs. Said's relatives.

"Patricia had told her that since they are Muslim that the daughter was only allowed to date other Muslims. Yaser had found out she went on a date with a non-Muslim and became very angry and threatened her with bodily harm. This concerned Patricia because Yaser has been violent in the past and Patricia was afraid that Yaser would severely hurt their daughter. At that time Patricia decided it would be best to leave her husband and take their daughters and go into hiding."

On New Year's Eve, Mrs. Said and her daughters returned to Lewisville. Amina told her aunt that her mother lied to her, saying the trip was to put flowers on their grandmother's grave. Mrs. Said told police she felt guilty about leaving her husband.

Sarah wore a brown sweatshirt with yellow puppies when she left with her dad to go to dinner on New Year's Day. Amina had on a tan hooded jacket with fur trim, similar to one she's wearing in a photo on her MySpace page. A headline on the page reads: "I don't want to ... become a memory."

Later that night, a dispatcher at the Irving Police Department picked up a 911 cellphone call from Sarah. The police report reads: "Female kept saying she was dying over and over again."

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123 Comments

How can you tell Barak Obama is no undercover muslim? His father was a muslim and in the islamic religion, faith is an inherited via father, seeing as women are forbidden marriage to infidels.
Is there actually a sunna in the Quran which allows you to lie about your religion in special cases/for yihad purposes . Having said all this, I repeat my statement that he could perfectly be an undorcover muslim jeopardizing the security of the west.
So, according to the Quran no muslim is under any obbligation to telling the truth to an infidel, which may clarify a lot of Barak Obama's behaviour when asked the same question in different contexts:
in an English webpage he states he is Christian and attends the Trinity Uited Church of Christ in Chicago. However, in another webpage in Spanish (surely for the purpose of being read by Hispanic voters), when asked the same question, he does not answer (no sabe no contesta)!
Furthermore, I found another webpage which said his father was muslim, but that he is a Christian, NOT a muslim (literally). A few hours later I couldnt find this webpage.
This may all probably be of little relevance, but I can't help finding it suspicious; in a certain webpage he is Christian, in the other one he doesnt answer to the question of religion...Lying to voters is certainly an undignified behaviour.

Current job: U.S. senator from Illinois , ( http://www.barackobama.com/index.php)

Birth date: August 4, 1961; Honolulu, Hawaii

Family: Married Michelle Robinson (1992-present); Children: Natasha (2001) and Malia Ann (1999)

Religion: Christian; attends Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago

Education: Columbia University, B.A., 1983; Harvard University, J.D., 1991

But in www.myspace.com/barakobama, says:
Estado civil: Casado
Orientación sexual: Heterosexual
Figura: 0cm
Etnia: Negro/descendiente africano
Religión: No sabe, no contesta !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Signo del zodiaco: Leo
Hijos: Padre orgulloso de serlo
Formación: Estudios de posgrado
Profesión: US Senator
Sueldo: No sabe, no contesta -09 January, 2008

10 January, 2008
Voila! he has changed his web again!(I am copyng and paste again):

Estado civil: Casado
Orientación sexual: Heterosexual
Ciudad natal: Honolulu, Hawaii
Religión: Cristiano - otra (???)
Signo del zodiaco: Leo
Bebo/fumo: No / No
Hijos: Padre orgulloso de serlo
Formación: Estudios de posgrado
Sueldo: No sabe, no contesta
Now he is a Christian where he didn´t answer before. well, Christian and other(lol)
They have very fast reactions!

"In a brief phone call in which she declined to comment further, his wife, Patricia, angrily rejected the notion that Mr. Said's Muslim religion or culture had anything to do with the murders.'
-- from the article above

Well, of course she did. She was inveigled into marrying him. She likely converted to Islam for his sake. She raised her children, in her nightmare marriage, within his Islam, according to rules prompted by Islam. She's had twenty years of solid brainwashing. How can she, at this point, admit to herself she had never understood Islam, or Egyptian "culture" if that is what one wishes to ascribe Said's attitudes and behavior to, that she never did come to grips with what was merely transitory, and what immutable?

How many other women get that big surprise, or a slow one, as they realize they were married to someone for the sake of a green card, or perhaps "for love" but as he slowly reveals his real attitudes, either those toward Infidels, or those toward women, or both, in a reverse fairy tale, they find that they went to bed with what they thought was a prince and woke up with a frog, who is croaking, to explain his behavior, as in the old tale (The Scorpion and the Frog) "This Is the Middle East! This is Islam!"

"Where is Hooper? Where is Al-Marayati? Where is Hussein Ibish? Where are the feminists? "


....that is odd...I am hearing crickets....

I did email CAIR about it. Not that I expect a response but they are on notice that we are noticing their silence.

A couple of years ago I was working with a practicing Muslim man. He was born here in the US I believe but his father and I think his mother were born in Africa.

I will never forget this conversation. He was trying to feel me out with veiled attempts to see if I would sleep with him. This was the second attempt. He knew I was single. He is married with a son and a daughter. He asked me if I had kids. I told him, 'I am not married'. This was the second time I gave him that answer. He said, 'that's good because if my daughter came up pregnant I would stone her because of bringing shame to me'. His daughter at the time I think was six years old. I was absolutely horrified. Needless to say I stayed as far away from this man whenever possible.

DO NOT LET THEM LIE and say they will not kill women in situations like this post has mentioned. THEY WILL. I heard this with my own ears.

Assalamau Laikum all,

Although many young and excitable peoples run astray…they should always keep friend with their parents…. a wise muslim once said: “You don’t need to make peace with your friends”….

Your parents with a combination of belief in Allah’ apostle PBUH will always keep you safe….it says in Sahih Muslim - Chapter 9, Book 31, Hadith 5955:

‘A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle [PBUH] went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel’s hair that there came Hasan b. ‘Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came ‘Ali and he also took him under it and then said: “Allah SWT only desires to take away any uncleanliness from you, O people of the household, and purify you (thorough purifying thoughts)”.

If parents lack the prophet’s understanding troubles can occur….As you know there are too many peoples in this duniya who believe that they know best how peoples should live their lives, and many of them are more than willing to use force to impose those beliefs on others….(ofcourse I’m not one of them).

I know that the two girls are gone…..but you peoples should not really worry about him…provided the police catch him and he is guilty …Allah SWT has it in hand…..the Qurán clearly says for him:

“If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.”—Surah Nisa (Chapter 4), Verse 93

A’isha reported that Allah’s Apostle [PBUH] went out one morning wearing a striped cloak of the black camel’s hair that there came Hasan b. ‘Ali. He wrapped him under it, then came Husain and he wrapped him under it along with the other one (Hasan). Then came Fatima and he took her under it, then came ‘Ali and he also took him under it

Posted by: Naseem at January 10, 2008 8:28 AM

What were they all doing underneath that cloak?

Sounds quite pervy if you ask me.

Tell me please, what is the "takyya"?
2:6 As for the Disbelievers, Whether thou warn them or thou warn them not it is all one for them; they believe not.

2:15 Allah (Himself) doth mock them, leaving them to wander blindly on in their contumacy.


....lying, often called takiyya is fully allowed in islam and legitimate in islamic law eg Lying and misleading is allowed, even obligatory, if the aim is praiseworthy (promoting Islam, protecting Muslims, entrapping non-Muslims) eg Reliance of the Traveller: A classic manuakl of islamic sacred law r8.2 (pp 744-746), r 10.3 (p74.
(FROM ISLAMMONITOR.ORG)

In October 1998, when Amina and Sarah were 9 and 8 years old, they accused their father of sexual abuse.

Classic. What a good muslim man their father is! Why, those girls were just the perfect age, the same age as Aisha when the pervert prophet consummated their marriage. And the girls' mother knew about the sexual and physical abuse and still stayed with the bastard.

Yaser Said is a muslim through and through. Anyone who denies honour killings are a MUSLIM custom is blind, a liar, or both.

Note the example provided by Naseem above of Muslim appeal to, and apparent total submission to, authority. In this case that authority is is provided by Sahih Muslim - Chapter 9, Book 31. And then, one more authority -- Surah Nisa (Chapter 4), Verse 93, Hadith 594:93 -- is invokved to explain that he, the father, will be punished even if he does manage to evade American authorities and spends the rest of his life in Egypt. Why? Because he who "kills a believer" will receive punishment in the afterlife.

But what if the girls Amina and Sarah showed, by their behavior, that they had ceased to be "Believers." Then the father would not have been guilty of killing "Believers" but disloyal children, and apostates to boot. And therefore, there would be no punishment in the afterlife. And why should there be punishment of any good Muslim in this life, for killing apostates (demonstrated by their disobedience, and the fruit of that disobedience). And therefore with what alacrity will the Egyptian or other Muslim authorities (if he has fled to Dar al-Islam, among people who support him, who do not see what the fuss is about), turn him over to the Americans? Why, with none at all. And I am sure that Naseeem, with her Sahih Muslim and her Qur'anic quotation replacing any semblance of her own moral sense (hers not to reason why, hers but to quote and sigh) will find that all perfectly reasonable.

For she, and others like her, exist on a different moral planet, in a different mental universe, from non-Muslims.

Q.E.D.

Naseem -

In the Qur'an, women are depicted as the property of men.

Your silence on this matter condemns more women to "honor killings".

Women = Property
Silence = Death

They haven't caught this monster yet? I guess when there's no publicity outside of Dallas, he's a free man.

quick question that isn't on topic--is the commentary on this blog moderated? I've had several of my comments simply disappear.

They haven't caught this monster yet? I guess when there's no publicity outside of Dallas, he's a free man.

Posted by: Bingo at January 10, 2008 8:59 AM

Irving police taped a segment of America's Most Wanted yesterday according to Fox News.

'On New Year's Eve, Mrs. Said and her daughters returned to Lewisville. Amina told her aunt that her mother lied to her, saying the trip was to put flowers on their grandmother's grave.'

Clearly, the girls' mother bears a great deal of responsibility in their deaths. She knew this man could, and would, do harm to her daughters.

I have no sympathy for her at all.

Comments likely to embarrass, either because the sentiments expressed are unacceptable, or the expression of sentiments otherwise acceptable are too crude, may be deleted as detected. But there is no systematic, thorough-going effort at moderating comments. And no doubt many unpleasant ones, ones that should be deleted, get by unobserved.

See "What This Website Is For."

"Why is it every time an Arab father kills a daughter, it's an honor killing?" Islam said."

Oh, brother. Because it is. Hello.

Agree with you Vee - I have no sympathy for "Patricia" marrying a male Muslim. I mean, what do you expect? Again, Hello.

Hugh, I took issue with a rather racist post that suggested Muslims are biologically inferior to Westerners, and added further how this website seems to attract some American Renaissance types and Christians who are simply too glad to demean another religion. Afterwards I made another post agreeing the substance of Robert's position. Post 1 disappeared. Post 2 remains. Curious.

^clarification: I meant "comment" instead of post.

"a wise muslim" --posted above

That's a contradiction-in-terms. No one can be "wise" who believes in a fake prophet and a god that doesn't exist. End of story.

quote: "Agree with you Vee - I have no sympathy for "Patricia" marrying a male Muslim. I mean, what do you expect? Again, Hello."

That's a rather bigoted comment. Are you suggesting that it's no SURPRISE that he killed his daughters because he's a Muslim?!? Robert's message needs to be heard by the mainstream. Bigots like you make him easer to marginalize!

What were they all doing underneath that cloak?

Sounds quite pervy if you ask me.

Posted by: joesamas mama at January 10, 2008 8:35 AM

LOL, thought the same thing! But, remember, joesmama mama, there are no perversions in Islam! Neither is there rape or incest or honor killings or FGM - those are all lies made up by the Infidel to insult Islam!

The perp who did this muslim honor daughter slaughter for the Prophet of Peace and Love is still on the loose. Local police do not know where to look.

Here's a clue: try the local mosques........

ibrahimX ,


Are you suggesting Islam had nothing to do with the girl's murder?

As the muslim population expands in the US, we can expect to see more of Islams sweetness and light rise to the surface. These incidents will become more common as well as other aspects of Shari'a.
This father probably did not realize that he was testing the waters of infidel patience, but he was.
The more they (Islamics) get away with, the more they will display...

The last day at their home, after the father left for work, Patricia and the girls left the house under false pretenses, claiming she and the girls were going to the convenience store to buy beverages.

Clearly, Patricia and the girls did NOT trust their son/brother, Islam with any details about their plan to run.

Islam Said, the brother of Sarah and Amina was solely responsible for locating and then convincing the girls - with his 'tears' - that it was safe to return home.

Later, Islam Said's behavior at the muhammedan funeral parlor was very telling. . . he threw out the infidel mourners.

Perhaps his guilty conscience couldn't deal with genuine sorrow for his culpability in the murder of his sisters.

Rather, like his father, foremost in his conscience, Islam's faith and 'honor' were soiled by his sister's behavior. There was no room for real grief.

At that pivotal moment he wasn't about to let his American upbringing, with all it's sappy values for human life, no he wouldn't allow real grief to seep into his conscience at the expense of his never-to-be- tarnished faith. . .certainly not for an audience of infidels.


Why isn't Islam charged with his complicity in these murders?

Islam is neither sane or humanistic. It is gross madness, inhuman and entirely evil. May the God of Israel bless those tragic young victims who have been killed by the Monsters that Islam has produced. Islam needs to be outlawed in western nations immediately and Muslim countries should be pounded into voluntary submission.

ibrahimX--

I haven't seen the original (now apparently deleted) posting, nor those to which it was written in response. Nor have I recently deleted anything by anybody. So I cannot answer.

You might send an email to Robert (see "Contact" on the left of the homepage), asking for clarification.

That's a rather bigoted comment. Are you suggesting that it's no SURPRISE that he killed his daughters because he's a Muslim?!? Robert's message needs to be heard by the mainstream. Bigots like you make him easer to marginalize!

Posted by: ibrahimX at January 10, 2008 9:50 AM

Hi ibrahim. Yes, that's what I'm suggesting, because it's true - honor killings aka "daughter-slaughter" have been going on in Islamic countries for centuries.

Your name-calling is predictable. How does condemning the well-known barbaric custom and practice of honor killings make me a bigot,? LOL!

BTW, Muslims are the biggest "bigots" going - they hate Jews and Christians, i.e. the "Infidel," -that's all over the Qur'an, haven't you read it? I've seen cartoons in Islamic countries of Jews eating babies. YOU BIGOTS!

Save your infantile name-calling, you're wasting your breath. I couldn't care less what you think about me.

Poor Amina. Poor Sarah. Let down most devastatingly by the very people who were supposed to be their nurturers and protectors.

While I was reading some of Aqsa Parvez' friends accounts of the months before her murder - often while she was walking home or out with her friends, she would often look around her and say I hope my sister (or brother, or father) don't see me without my hijab. My father will KILL me!.

Sigh. How often do we hear (and have said as teenagers ourselves) one of a group of teens say to their friends "if my mom (or dad) knows I went to the mall, movies, whatever, instead of the library to study for that final, they'll KILL me! Then they'd would titter with nervous guilt "I know eh?"

If there are any young girls reading this, and you have a muslim girlfriend who says her father, brother, uncle, whatever, will KILL her if they knew she was dating, wearing lowrise jeans, listening to rap etc. - they do NOT mean it the way we did when we were kids or the way western kids mean it.

IT IS LITERAL. THEY MEAN KILL. If you have a muslim female friend or acquaintance who makes comments similar to those of Sarah, Amina or Aqsa, take it seriously and if at all possible, discreetly and safely do whatever you can to help them.

It really is a matter of life and death.

"...…. a wise muslim once said: “You don’t need to make peace with your friends”….
Posted by Naseem


....sure is a good way not to have friends....

Why isn't Islam charged with his complicity in these murders?

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at January 10, 2008 10:03 AM

Where was Islam the son when the murders took place? Could he have been waiting around the corner to pick Daddy up and take him to the airport?

IbrahimX:

Hugh, I took issue with a rather racist post that suggested Muslims are biologically inferior to Westerners, and added further how this website seems to attract some American Renaissance types and Christians who are simply too glad to demean another religion. Afterwards I made another post agreeing the substance of Robert's position. Post 1 disappeared. Post 2 remains. Curious.

Nothing curious about it, my friend.

The racist post disappeared, because I take such things down when I see them, and your first post disappeared, because you quoted the racist post in it, and I don't want such sentiments expressed here.

Got it?

Cordially
Robert Spencer

pgcfriend -- That is chilling.

I think a lot of people assume that, because someone is here, they have automatically absorbed and accepted our most important cultural values, which include obeying our laws.

Our societies are learning, much to our horror, that it ain't necessarily so.


Another convert to Islam or just filled with the same Devil from hell which all good Moslem's follow ?
Cutting off heads is their religious mark,why was it Mr. Hilton's against these women .

DAWSONVILLE, Ga. -- The Leon County, Florida, sheriff's office said the man charged with murder in the death of 24-year-old hiker Meredith Emerson can be considered a prime suspect in the death of Cheryl Hodges Dunlap.
Her body was found December 19th in the Apalachicola National Forest, southwest of Tallahassee. Sheriff's Major Mike Wood said today that authorities have confirmed that Gary Michael Hilton was in the area at the time of Dunlap's disappearance.
Authorities also confirmed the body of Dunlap was decapitated just like Emerson.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/15011719/detail.html

"Are you suggesting that it's no SURPRISE that he killed his daughters because he's a Muslim?!?"
Posted above

Most Muslim men practicing literal fundamentalism with fidelity do not murder their daughters. However, some, whose daughters do not sufficiently follow the expected tenets, do. It is at that point, that there is no surprise that he was Muslim.

A few days back, a man saw the "Mark of the Beast" on his hand, cut it off and cooked it in the microwave. No one showed any hesitancy to draw a connection to hyper-literal interpretations of Christian scriptures. However, no mainstream Christian organization worldwide teaches this behavior. You cannot say the same for Islam. Therefore, it is quite more reasonable, that when Mr. Said is quoted making comments predating his actions that implicate Islam, that we connect the dots.

Regarding Patricia, one might assume that she was a convert base on her given name. Did she research Islam, did she investigate her betrothed to see what his beliefs and attitudes were? If not, then she made an enormous error in believing that all peoples have the same basic values and that such investigations were not necessary. How many of such errors do you have to feel sorry for in a post-911 world? Don't get me wrong, I grieve for these children, but the fact is, she enable this to happen, and is still enabling it.

Equally enabling is the ENTIRE "moderate Muslim" community for not addressing this epidemic, openly and definitively. And until you do, you should be under a cloud of suspicion. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

On the other hand, I think it is quite irresponsible for rocketman to automatically assume there a diabolical connection to Islam for every decapitation (or amputation or whatever).

"American Renaissance types and Christians who are simply too glad to demean another religion." --posted by IbrahimX.

1. Excuse me, but what are "American Renaissance types?" I took a Lit class in college called "American Renaissance" - we read Emerson and Thoreau, Melville and Poe. Is that an "American Renaissance type?"

2. There are reasons -REASONS- why many folks on the planet, whether "Christian" or Jewish or Hindu or Buddhist, don't like Islam. Furthermore, in America we have freedom of speech, Ibrahim. We can "demean" or mock or insult or find fault with ANY religion or belief system we want! I realize that freedom of speech doesn't exist in Moslem countries, but it DOES in America.

3. I don't even consider Islam to be a religion - I think, like many, that's it a cult. A death cult. And I CAN say that (!) and think it! For starters, any belief system that prohibits questioning and criticizing, and in fact prescribes the death penalty for those who do so - that is a cult. When you can't disagree with authority under penalty of death. "If a man leave his religion (Islam), kill him!" --Mohammed. That's a cult, too - when you can't leave.

1. This was an Islamic honor killing. It is undeniable.
2. The reason he hasn't been caught is because the Muslim community is hiding him.
3. Islam teaches that virtually anything is permissible to preserve the honor of Islam. Murder and deception are certainly two 'tools' of the Islamic mindset.

To deny these facts is ludicrous and speaks to the alterer motives of those making those denials.

Muslim world, we see you for what you truly are in matters like these. For if you truly were peaceful, law abiding people, then monsters like this father would be turned over to the police and Muslim women wouldn't have to live in fear of their lives over matters like apparel choices.

My money is this guy is in Egypt. I could be wrong...but Egypt is like a safe haven for this kind of killer.

Wonder why?

"On the other hand, I think it is quite irresponsible for rocketman to automatically assume there a diabolical connection to Islam for every decapitation (or amputation or whatever)."
Sorry concerned,
I've connected the dots and they both have the same father of lies and murderous blood lust ,Satan.
The father,big daddy of lies which Islam so religiously follows.
That's who mohammed got his plagerized satanic inspired moon god koran from and why it is so bloody and destructive across the globe.
And that is why they have such deep,deep hatred for the people of the Original Book ,the Jews and we Sunday people.
Islam and Israel iwl never have true lasting peace and that is why one will have to disappear.
Islam's armies will be wiped oiut on the mountains of Israel by the true God and only then will Arab and Jew live together in real peace ,not the phony bogus peace of charlatan President and con-man George'Smiley' Bush

On the other hand, I think it is quite irresponsible for rocketman to automatically assume there a diabolical connection to Islam for every decapitation (or amputation or whatever).

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at January 10, 2008 10:26 AM

That's true. It's just wrong. For example, John Walsh's son Adam was kidnapped and decapitated by American serial killer Ottis Toole in 1981 (?) or the early 1980's, I believe. Ottis Toole was not Muslim.

American serial killer Cary Stayner cut off Joie Armstrong's head in Yosemite Nat'l Park. He also is not a Muslim. That was in the early '90's, I believe.

So, this guy with the American name and who is also, apparently, a serial killer, is most probably not a Muslim.

I feel so sorry about Meredith Emerson. All she wanted to do was go on a hike with her dog. Then, she met up with Evil.

I think it is just a sad state of affairs that Islam appears to be the only faith in the world that is above criticism in the mainstream , the media or in general , especially since there are millions and millions of dedicated Muhammadans who would love to slit every single Christian , Jews or Infidels throat.

Christianity would be outlawed if it advocated the violence and homocidal fillicide .

This honor killing and all others has everything to do with Islam and the perverted twisted rantings of the Rapist , pedophile ,torturer, thief Prophet and founder of the worlds most violent, intolerant , and regressive ideology.

This is not Radical this is what Muslims do. it may be rare here, for now , but it is islam.

All Western people need to accept this.

Listen up, you a$$wipe Yaser (sorry for the language, Robert, but he killed his daughters, and I'm FURIOUS):

I grew up in this Western culture as a kafir, and remained PURE (e.g., pure for my husband - you DIG?).

It is not only possible, it is feasible to do so, despite the EVILS of the West, you PIG.

May you ROT. Here and in HELL.

Listen up, you a$$wipe Yaser (sorry for the language, Robert, but he killed his daughters, and I'm FURIOUS):

I grew up in this Western culture as a kafir, and remained PURE (e.g., pure for my husband - you DIG?).

It is not only possible, it is feasible to do so, despite the EVILS of the West, you PIG.

May you ROT. Here and in HELL.

Sorry...Did NOT double post!!!

The mother comes across as conflicted. She knew full well that her husband was capable of great violence. Not only had he made threats but, judging from this story, he had inflicted violence on his daughters many times. The mother felt so guilty about leaving her husband that she was willing to endanger her daughters' lives. The responsibility is hers. Her daughters were the ones who needed protection. She failed in her duty as a parent and so lost both them and her husband. Now her 19-year-old son runs her life, I suppose. Enjoy.

Robert says:

Amina and Sarah Said should be alive today, and the idea that a man can walk around in Texas believing that it's perfectly right for him to murder his daughters because they are dating non-Muslims -- since, after all, it is perfectly fine to do that sort of thing back home in Egypt -- is abominable. It is monstrous.

The very fact that it IS okay to do it in Egypt should have all self-respecting internationalists and arbiters of morality up in arms. Forget the feminists. Where is Human Rights Watch? Where is Jimmy Carter? Where is UNHRC? Why is it okay to do this ANYWHERE?

Hypothetical: he took them to Egypt and killed them. That such behavior would not be prosecuted should still be a matter for the UN and all the bodies that presume to sit in judgment on the US. Maybe the father killed the girls but it's behavior that is sanctioned by the state (since Islam is the state). Any country that denies all women equal protection under the law is not fulfilling its obligations under the UN charter.

This was the work of a sick, evil man with no conscience. To call his work an act of honor killing almost excuses it, and him. Maybe the cultural and "religious" (I also belive it is nothing more than a death cult) background is there, but we should not allow these lame reasons justify or excuse a depraved individual's lack of morality and conscience.
Later
Albert

Not to distract you all, but if you wanna have a bit of a giggle take a look at 'Islamic science' in this recent piece from MEMRI:

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD179808

rocketman,

I agree with most everything you wrote (post 494933), just disagree with concluding that Islam should be impuned with every possible offense. This fosters the perception of possessing indiscreet phobic agendas that the PC media already project upon us. Robert does not post every potential case, but waits until there appears to be a definitive connection. Recall the Armanious murders, and how quickly he retracted after Edward McDonald and Hamilton Sanchez were arrested.

http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:4P7Sy-RhSycJ:www.nj.com/news/jjournal/index.ssf%3F/base/news-2/1197357094174880.xml%26coll%3D3+armanious+Edward+McDonald+and+Hamilton+Sanchez+trial&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us

"To call his work an act of honor killing almost excuses it," --posted by GamblersChoice

Here is the situation: In the Islamic world, the "honor" of the family lies ENTIRELY with the females. The males share NONE of this burden. Muslim males can commit any depraved or wrong act they want with impunity. They NEVER get called on their behavior. NEVER. So, somehow it follows to Muslim males, since ALL "honor" is burdened on the females, that it's permissible to kill a female if her behavior brings "shame" on a family.

So, to say that honor killings have nothing to do with Islam, as Muslims love to say, is a total lie. And they know it.

Because of this unjust and uber-misogynist "honor code" set up in Islamic countries, no, it's not "excusable" in any way shape or form.

Mr. Said often espoused his version of traditional Middle Eastern values, prompting speculation the murders were "honor killings," an ancient Arab tribal custom in which the man of the family kills women he believes have shamed the family. The practice is now widely repudiated.
In a brief phone call in which she declined to comment further, his wife, Patricia, angrily rejected the notion that Mr. Said's Muslim religion or culture had anything to do with the murders.
Her son, Islam, 19, agreed.
"Why is it every time an Arab father kills a daughter, it's an honor killing?" Islam said. "It didn't have anything to do with that." He declined to answer other questions

So much dis-information in just a few sentences! 1) "ancient Arab tribal custom" -- apparently a custom that has been enthusiastically adopted by the Egyptians and Pakistanis, among other non-Arabs, who all just so happen to be Moslem
2) "widely repudiated" -- but not yet repudiated in the U.S., Canada, or the U.K., not to mention in the Islamic world; maybe the Moslems in Nicaragua or Latvia have repudiated it.
3)as for the son, he seems to know about a lot fathers killing daughters for him to be sure most of them are not honor-murders. Maybe the police should be giving him some intensive questioning about all the other Arab fathers he knows that have killed their daughters. He implies that it is a common practice. But not for honor. No, of course not.

Her son, Islam, 19, agreed.
"Why is it every time an Arab father kills a daughter, it's an honor killing?" Islam said. "It didn't have anything to do with that." He declined to answer other questions


He declined to answer other questions? My question to him is "where were you at the time of the murders"?

Did you know that honor killings have accounted for more then 30 Pct. of the documented killings of women in Jordan. If these statistics are any barometer of other Islamic Countries in the Middle East, than this goes to a term called a "common practice". Some of the reasons that have been given for this evil practice that totally disrespects women are refusing to submit to an arranged marriage, demanding a divorce, flirting with or receiving phone calls from men, failing to serve a meal on time, or -- grotesquely -- "allowing herself" to be raped. More from http://www.gendercide.org/case_honour.html

Islam continues to have a serious problem with so-called "honor killings." the excuses, and rationalizations. The fact that honor killings are accepted by Muslims all over the world is a sign of tremendous disrespect towards women. Even as late as 2006 stiff penalties for "honor killings" were rejected in Jordan as un-Islamic.


/Sarcasm On

We have to understand that the poor guy was desperate, his daughters were dating infidels, who are inferior, in the name of Allah infidels are less than coach roaches, so he only wanted the good for them... Beating is a practice that the all powerful Allah said that it should be done.

Now that his honour is destroyed because the inferior female couldn't keep their hands off the infidels... May Allah and Mohammed with the eternal nice taste for young girls be praised

/Sarcasm Off


Every time I see their pics, or read about them it hurts me, they were beautiful and full of life, it pains me to know that our generation will not benefit from their knowledge when they grow up, it pains me to know that a bastard killed them because of "westernization" of the girls.

Each time someone young dies so abruptly it makes me mad!
Thankfully I'm studying in a field were I have the chance to catch those responsibles.

It is an empty rhetorical excercize to solicit expressions of concern from "mainstream" Muslim organizations in the United States--they are fronts for the Ikhwan or its Salafist fellow-travellers, or instuments of the Wahabi lobby.

They are here to make the world safe for Islamic regression and to remake America, in conformity to "Allah's Will," embodied in Shari'ah absurdity.

Since there are no Shari'ah courts here, authority ultimately means that the family patriarch is the enforcer of Islamic norms. The solution, then, to free-lance Islamic "justice" is more Islam. A cleric-beholden Islamic state enforcing the preordained enactments of shari'ah courts would prevent these extra-legal "tragedies," you see. But, since Allah has blinded you by His Curse, you infidels, of course, DON"T SEE.

Why then should Ibby, Ahwad, or Ahmed enlighten you, whom Allah has blinded? Allahu akhbar!

They lived in fear for years, endured his sexual cravings at an 'Aisha' age, endured beatings with very visible facial marks, endured his threats to kill them, etc., ad nausem.

Yes, it nauseates. Its Islam.

If he was never, ever 'observant' as a Muslim, its still Islam that then becomes the cultural mores of a whole region of the world. That religious system IS that country.

And then they move here, now thats nauseating!

People, I've had this book for about 2 years: "Burned Alive: A Survivor of an Honor Killing Speaks Out," by Souad (2003).

Everyone here should get it and read it. Souad's uncle, with the permission of the family, threw gasoline on her and a match. However, she lived to tell her story. Because her family is still after her, she only uses her first name, Souad. She now lives in France.

Other horrors in the book include her mother murdering 3-4 of her newborn daughters (suffocating them) because her husband would be mad she had more daughters. I kid you not.

I bought mine at Books-A-Million. If it's not on the shelf, you can order it. Let's also put more $ in Souad's pocket, as well as supporting her intellectually and emotionally by getting her book. Thanks! --darcy

Darcy is Souad still muslim or did she get out of the cult of death?

The national media conspired to cover up the identity and motive of the killer long enough for him to escape. It precluded looking into the problem before the murders.

PC kills, and not a little.

After all we know it is still depressing to see the photos taken at the funeral for these beautiful young souls that were killed by the hands of such evil.

From the noted Article, just another sad reminder.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/pt/slideshows/2008/01/saidfuneral_010608/

Well well, mom brought the girls back to dad by lying to them.
I did feel sorry for her. Now I feel only contempt. She failed her girls, she brought them back to their executioner.
No wonder they had a moslem ritual (funeral), I would have forbidden it. Stupid cow.

Why is the brother free after luring the girls?

The mother too?

Texas isn't Yemen. Yet anyway.

In the end, let's all do what we can to make sure Amina and Sarah are not forgotten. Let's make sure Papa never becomes... just a memory to the authorities.

KK,

CAIR can come out and defend the Egyptian students caught with explosives but cant speak out for these poor girls? Sad

"Now I feel only contempt."
Posted above.

I feel a lot of contempt for the reporting officers involved, too. What is known about them? Why did they recommend the case be closed with these excerpts from the reports? Those girls could still be alive if they had followed up.

"Patricia stated that she was not going to call back again, as she was in great fear of her life. Patricia said she is very fearful of her husband harming her and/or her children, which is the reason she left her husband. Patricia further advised she and her children, Sarah and Amina, are just fine, and are going to continue hiding from her husband."

The next day an officer filed a reported recommending the case be closed, citing an interview with one of Mrs. Said's relatives.

"Patricia had told her that since they are Muslim that the daughter was only allowed to date other Muslims. Yaser had found out she went on a date with a non-Muslim and became very angry and threatened her with bodily harm. This concerned Patricia because Yaser has been violent in the past and Patricia was afraid that Yaser would severely hurt their daughter. At that time Patricia decided it would be best to leave her husband and take their daughters and go into hiding."

WTF, Mr. Policeman??!? What are your affiliations?

Concerned Citizen,

That's the PC smoking gun. The police basically punted on the grounds of Islam. Or so it sounds.

The next day an officer filed a reported recommending the case be closed, citing an interview with one of Mrs. Said's relatives.

"Patricia had told her that since they are Muslim that the daughter was only allowed to date other Muslims. Yaser had found out she went on a date with a non-Muslim and became very angry and threatened her with bodily harm. This concerned Patricia because Yaser has been violent in the past and Patricia was afraid that Yaser would severely hurt their daughter. At that time Patricia decided it would be best to leave her husband and take their daughters and go into hiding."

"She always used that term, 'He would kill me, I would be dead,' " said Mr. Zaidi, the 18-year-old college freshman. She kept his phone number under a female name in her cellphone.

I believe that Zaidi posted on one of the oldest threads concerning this matter.

"[A] friend said she showed up at school with red welts across her arms and back. Another time, Amina confided that her father had kicked her in the face.

"He found notes from her boyfriend," said a 17-year-old Trinity senior, who asked not to be identified. "Her lips were pretty much attached to her braces..."

While I do not want to minimize the crimes of the monstrous Mr. and Mrs. Said, why did no teacher, coach, etc. at the girls' school report such abuse? How could they have failed to notice welts on her arms, her lips swollen shut, etc?

Hugh
"How many other women get that big surprise"
Laura Mansfield comes to mind. She wrote a book about it

On the funeral picture link above:

The photos of turbaned imams and hijabed women folk followers seem almost blasphemous in contrast to the memory and innocence of the two young ladies murdered largely because of sick cultural and ‘religious’ influences on a bestial father. Really sad…….

Beagle,

I agree, but did they do it because

1) of multicultural PC reasons, which if analyzed contains the EXACT kind of "racism" that ibrahimX complained about above (Muslims are just that way, Muslim men threaten a lot, Muslim women should be used to being pushed around and intimidated, Muslim women are fickle and will retract the charges and make us look stupid, it's just the way Muslims are, our laws don't protect THESE people)

or

2) they were just afraid to stay involved for fear of retribution from the Muslim community? (same type of "racism")

The outcome of these officers actions was no different from when police officers led that bleeding teenage boy back to Dahmer's apartment (it's just a gay spat, don't want to get involved in a "gay" thing).

PC kills.

In a brief phone call in which she declined to comment further, his wife, Patricia, angrily rejected the notion that Mr. Said's Muslim religion or culture had anything to do with the murders.

Well, that, and various other statements certainly dashes any hope she might explain Islam as her husband lived it, as he explained it to her and to the children--not the 'Islam is peaceful' nonsense that journalists so eagerly promote.

I was hoping she would publicly decry dear old dad's likely insistence that his Muslim daughters be circumcised, and that she, as a caring American mother, successfully shielded her daughters from the knife/piece of glass/whatever.

If they had been circumcised will the Coroner's Report make mention of it? Would the Coroner know to look?

Had dad already arranged their marriages, either here or in the old country?

What Islamic teachings or Muslim customs--the practice of which would violate the United States Constitution and American law-- had these American born, American citizens been subjected to, with mom and Juniors overt knowledge?

And with the whispered knowledge of the in-laws, and school officials, and police departments, and....

Did France have acid attacks before muslims came there?


OT


[-]
http://galliawatch.blogspot.com/2008/01/acid-attack-in-subway.html
Another horror story in the subway. This time in the suburbs of Rouen. From François Desouche:

On December 31 in Saint-Etienne-du-Rouvray, a suburb of Rouen, a young girl, 16 years old, was alone in a subway car. Three "young people" who had been shopping got on. In their bags of provisions there was a bottle of chlorhydric acid, purchased at the supermarket.

Note: chlorhydric acid is another term for hydrochloric acid, a highly corrosive substance.

The three boys approached the girl who ignored them. They persisted, without success. They went into a rage and poured the chlorhydric acid on the seat, then, as they were about to leave the train they turned around and splashed the acid in the face of the unfortunate girl.

Seriously burned on the entire upper part of her body and her face, she is in danger of losing an eye. Two days later, thanks to the video surveillance cameras, the police were able to arrest the three individuals. The three "young people", ages 14 and 15, are under investigation for voluntary acts of group violence with a weapon.

[-]

Kaffirchick:
While I do not want to minimize the crimes of the monstrous Mr. and Mrs. Said, why did no teacher, coach, etc. at the girls' school report such abuse? How could they have failed to notice welts on her arms, her lips swollen shut, etc?

They noticed the brutality but it was also prudently necessary to have an equivocal attitude about the culture and religion that these young, innocent girls were forced to endure. You know: guard against seeming ‘ethnocentric’ or ‘islamophobic’ or ‘racist’ even. Sadly: our society seems largely to have lost the capacity for principled, decision making when faced with moral issues such as this in the interest of meaningless cultural relativity. As they say: “Its all good”………isn’t it?

“If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.”—Surah Nisa (Chapter 4), Verse 93"


Naseem,

I notice that if one intentionally kills a believer, he goes to hell.

I suppose if one intentionally kills a non believer, there's no penality, or he goes to Paradise.

Talk about a spiritual sickness.

Equally enabling is the ENTIRE "moderate Muslim" community for not addressing this epidemic, openly and definitively. - Posted by: Concerned Citizen

Where is the ENTIRE ‘moderate Muslim” community on this issue? Have they spoken out against it by showing exactly where in the Quran and Hadiths such vile killings of one own daughters is forbidden? Is it being talked about at the mosques? Are imams vociferously condemning such monstrous behavior? Where are spokesmen for CAIR, or other Muslim NGOs condemning this 'dis-honor' heinous murder? Have human rights and women’s organizations condemned these killings? Where is the whole Ulemah on this? Why is ALL their silence, the ENTIRE lot of them so damned silent?.. and the killer pig goes into hiding!

We should ALL be concerned. Their silence is deafening.

He said Muslim children who are born here or spend most of their lives here are "caught between a rock and a hard place." They want to do what their parents want, but they also want to follow their friends.

"They always battle within themselves about what they need to do," he said. "I call it the clash of the culture and that's what it comes down to. The kids were born here and part of their blood is Muslim, part of their blood is Christian, and they are caught in between."

--Massoud Nasseri--

This is the clincher for me. The clash of cultures, using religious denomination as the epicenter of the rift. Incompatible and explosive when mixed.

He spoke the truth even if he didn't think he was doing so.

Let's hope that at this juncture, the police are regarding Momma and Big Brother Islam as suspects, not victims.

Darcy is Souad still muslim or did she get out of the cult of death?

Posted by: joesamas mama at January 10, 2008 12:20 PM


OK, joesamas mama, I just got my book down from my "Islam" shelf over which my ordered "Mohammed Bear" presides, LOL!

Souad lived on the West Bank, so she's Palestinian. Her father was very violent and had the females in the family cowed in constant fear. Actually, her mother killed NINE of her own baby daughters, suffocating them, two right in front of Souad. Because, as I said, the father blamed the mother for the birth of daughters. Now I'm reminded that in fact Souad went to Switzerland, not France, and it was her brother-in-law the family got to douse her in flames.

On page 49 she writes,"It is what is called a crime of honor, "Jamirat el Sharaf", and for the men of my region it is not considered a crime."

"FOR THE MEN OF MY REGION IT IS NOT CONSIDERED A CRIME." I had to repeat that. Because you know this is EXACTLY how Said feels about murdering his 2 daughters - not a crime.

Page 13: "This is what it was like in our village. It was the law of men. The girls and the women were certainly beaten every day in the other houses, too. You could hear the crying. It was not unusual to be beaten, to have your hair shaved off and be tied to a stable gate. There was no other way of living. My father, the all-powerful man, the king of the household, who owns, who decides, who strikes and tortures us! And he sits there calmly smoking his pipe in front of the house with his women, whom he treats worse than livestock, locked up. A man takes a woman in order to have sons, to have her serve him as a slave like the daughters who will come, if she has the misfortune to produce any."

People, please, amazon.com awaits you! You must read this book. No, joesama mama, the words "Islam" and "Muslim" are never used in this book. You should get it, anyway. Hope some JW's will order the book.

I checked my local newspaper, the oh so politically correct Baltimore Sun. This august rag has not published any information on this tragedy. Individuals who rely solely on the Sun for information will not know it ever happened. On January 4th, the Sun did publish two articles that mentioned the pregnancy of Britney Spears' younger sister. If you have the time and the means, check your local paper for mention of the honor killing, and report back. Coverage, or lack of same, is very instructive.

When it comes to violent behavior, I.E. child abuse,spousal abuse. The law is not allowed to make a different distinction based on cultural values from another country, or religion. If they do then they violate that persons rights of equal protection which should be universal throughout the country. Law inforcement needs to be on guard from being influenced by the perversion of Multiculturalism at all times.

Thanks Darcy for the information about Souad. I will get the book and pass it along to others once I read it. It is sad though "islam" and "muslim" are not mentioned. Had Sarah and Amina survived their attack I would hope they would use the proper name of their dad's murderous religion.

Darcy
Having read the book, I agree with you and can recommend it also.

Had Sarah and Amina survived their attack I would hope they would use the proper name of their dad's murderous religion as the reason for his shooting them.

I didn't make this very clear.

Just tried the same thing in the Washington Post. The story is not covered there either. I tried several key words independently.
1.) honor killing
2.) Texas
3.) Egyptian
I went back over the last 30 days.
Under "Egypt" there was an article discussing, wait for it.... Male belly dancing.
EWWWWWWWW
/Greatly enjoy watching female belly dancers.
//Also like bacon and beer.

I suppose if one intentionally kills a non believer, there's no penality, or he goes to Paradise.

rational,
It's the latter. One of the 1993 WTC bombers told the FBI: "a Muslim will never go to hell for killing an infidel."

Josephine,

I was absolutely horrified. Eventually I saw him out with his wife and two kids at a local mall. His wife looked like a American/European. She was not black/African/etc. He did not see me and I made it a point to not let him see me. Again I stayed as far away from him as possible.

I am a disciple of Christ. When I do marry I will only marry another disciple of Christ. I refuse to denounce my faith to marry. HOWEVER I think I would think long and hard before I married a man that followed Islam. You cannot say that every Muslim man would do that. That would be insane to think that. I do not believe that for a minute. BUT how would you know if you got one that would? I'd like to think I would not take that chance with my life or the possibility of my children.

I doubt if I will ever forget that experience as long as I live.

Where is the ENTIRE ‘moderate Muslim” community on this issue?

Battle_of_Tours,

Unless "moderate" means "secular", it won't happen and the fact is, the vast majority of "peaceful" Muslims are irrelevant. They are unimportant. They are not the ones calling the shots.

According to Serge Trikovic:

Religions, like political ideologies, are pushed along by money, power and tiny vocal minorities.
...
And in any case, the willingness of moderates to be what are objectively bad Muslims, because they reject key teachings of historical Islam, may be laudable in human terms but does nothing to modify Islam as a doctrine.

His recommendation is one that many people have suggested here:

No one who believes that jihad is the right or duty of all Muslims, or who promotes adoption of Sharia law or the reestablishment of the caliphate should be allowed to settle in any Western country and they should be asked this question before they are allowed in. Anyone preaching jihad should have his passport revoked.

On this basis, I would immediately deport the wife and son to Egypt. If either is a US citizen, whether naturalized or by birth, that citizenship should be revoked.

Said cleaned out the bank account and took his passport and a pistol.
(FNC - Jan. 6) (not clear about when . . . before/after the murders)

If he used his own passport, it's likely he was out of the country before the girls bodies hit the cold steel of the morgue tables.

On a related thread, a commenter pointed out that it's about a ten minute drive to the DFW Int. Airport from where he murdered his daughters.

He didn’t commit these murders and escape without help. The local muslim community, including that of his son and wife [he did have a gun and proved he would use it] should not be above suspicion.

Where was his son and any other males that frequented that household when the father was home - at the time of the murders?

Islam Said should be, minimally, a person of interest. Bet you dollars to donuts he knows when his father left, who assisted with the clean up/disposal of weapon before his flight, how he got to the airport and how/where to contact him or those involved with harboring a fugitive.

Turn the tables, and demonstrate to Islam Said what it feels like to be under constant scrutiny . . .always having to look over your shoulder in fear that someone is watching your every move. Oh, yeah, of course he is ‘innocent’ until proven guilty.

Hey, you there . . .Islam Said . . .BOO!


Law enforcement should also make note of whether the Said family were renters or home owners. If they were home owners, on the outside chance, was this home purchase facilitated through a sharia compliant financial instrument.

Sharia finance should have no business in the USA, however, since it is being explored - let's turn the tables and use it to follow the money.

It should be of interest to follow the asset distribution (money) in a Sharia compliant home purchase transaction.

Funerals are expensive. As finances become a critical issue between Islam (the son) and his mother, Patricia may come around with some more information.

Here is the comment I was speaking of:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019415.php#c491919
I don't know if it was Zaidi or not.

darcy -

I too have read the Souad book.

One line that you quote - "This is what it was like in our [Palestinian Muslim] village. It was the law of men. The girls and the women were certainly beaten every day in the other houses, too. You could hear the crying" - chimes EXACTLY with Ayaan Hirsi Ali's description of Saudi Arabia:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighbourhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards: "No! Please! By Allah!".

Souad's book has been queried by some - but after reading 'Infidel', Souad's description rings only too true.

There is a telling observation later on in Ayaan's account, when she describes Saudi family life: "The little boys simply ran rampant. All the children ran around as much as they liked...but the boys were in charge. They would turn off their mother's TV program, and order their older sisters off their chair."

So: in THE heartland of Islam, Saudi Arabia, what you have is a deliberate encouragement, even exaltation, of all the very worst aspects of masculinity - aggression and bullying - right from the beginning, and a total contempt for women.

Ayaan's description of her (pious but 'moderate') father's response to the domestic violence of Saudi Arabia, is interesting -

"This [the nightly wife-beatings] appalled my father. He saw this horrible, casual violence as a prime example of the crudeness of the Saudis, and when he caught sight of the men who did it...he would mutter, 'stupid bully, like all the Saudis'. He never lifted a hand to my mother in this way; he thought it was unspeakably low."

It's clear that he did not, probably could not make the connection between ...Islam, Islam itself, nothing else...and the horrific domestic and public violence of Saudi society, which his own human moral sense (blessed, I would say, by 'common grace', rejected) but rather, saw the source of the violence in Arab-ness, distinct from Islam. His daughter would grow up to take that next, final, step; to see the connection between Islam and the various forms of the oppression of women in BOTH Saudi Arabia AND Somalia, and to make the film "Submission", and to write "The Caged Virgin".

Buried deep in the archives at this site, there is the following anecdote, posted in 2004, which was so striking that when I read it, I copied it and tucked it away in a file entitled 'wounded souls'.

I am pasting it in here in full, because it connects directly with Ayaan Hirsi Ali's child's-eye-view observations of gender relations in Saudi families, and may also throw light on the probable relationship between Amina and Sarah and their brother. (Any police chief who has any brains whatever, and knows anything at all about Islam, should be putting those girls' brother through the wringer - a third degree fullscale interrogation, no less).

"The people in America need to wake up.
"I was at a party for a friend of my son. The neighbors, Muslims, were invited. Only the children came: 2 boys about 7 and 5 and a little girl about 3 or 4.

"The boys would not let her [their sister] eat at the table. Then we sat her at the table with all the other children and those boys made sure she did not eat by intimidation.

"I encouraged her, but then when I moved away she stopped eating.

"So when the children were done we moved the food outside and the little girl sat and ate at the picnic table alone.

"Then when it was time to line up for the pinata, we put the little girl first after the birthday girl since she was the youngest, and the boys followed in order of age youngest to oldest.

"While the birthday girl was hitting the pinata, the boys rearranged and all of a sudden the little girl was off to the side--out of the line and the boys were in line with the oldest first.

"SHE WAS THE QUIETEST, NON-SMILING, SADDEST LITTLE GIRL I HAVE EVER SEEN, AND THE BOYS WERE ARROGANT AND DIFFICULT [my emphasis added - dd]

"Already the children were indoctrinated into the cult. There was no attempt at assimilation and nor will there be--probably until the little girl gets to school and is away from those boys.

"The mother could not leave the house. This is a belief system that is 100 percent incompatible with American values, and the Americans will not accept this."

- Posted by: bluewisteria at June 7, 2004 1:45 AM

On a related thread, a commenter pointed out that it's about a ten minute drive to the DFW Int. Airport from where he murdered his daughters

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at January 10, 2008 5:02 PM

I posted that comment days ago and yes where the murders took place is about a 10 minute drive with traffic. The day and time this happened there would have been no traffic on HWY 114 because of the holiday. He could have made in 5 to 7 minutes easily. I live a mile away and can make it in 4 or 5 minutes, but I don't drive the speed limit. This is why I keep questioning where was sonnyboy Islam at the time of the murders?

I live a mile away and can make it in 4 or 5 minutes, but I don't drive the speed limit. This is why I keep questioning where was sonnyboy Islam at the time of the murders?

What I meant to say is: I live a mile away from where the murders happened and from there I can make it in 4 or 5 minutes. Sorry my brain knows what I mean, but sometimes it doesn't come out well when I type.

We applaud Spencer's efforts to keep this incident in the forefront of the media to expose the behavior and 'norms' of the cultural and religious customs of the Islam.

However, this story will be swept under the carpet. I will repeat the reported words of a UK Bobby standing watch during the famous "behead those who insult islam" protest, "WE MUST NOT... RILE THEM".

Fear is what keeps the truth from coming into the light.

The Middle Eastern Islam is just not compatible with Western ideals. But... whatever you do, "We Must Not Rile Them"

Many other sources for this, but here's just one.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1300&dept_id=374730&newsid=16906904&PAG=461&rfi=9

Thank You, everyone, with your endorsements of Souad's book! If anyone can read the passage I quoted from page 13, and not be moved, and angered, I don't know what.

Her's is an important and valuable book - the first ever written by a female who survived a "daughter-slaughter." And the comparison to Hirsi Ali's account is right-on. Order-away people! Souad MUST be read! --darcy

We applaud Spencer's efforts to keep this incident in the forefront of the media to expose the behavior and 'norms' of the cultural and religious customs of the Islam.

Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis

It is being kept up with the media in Dallas Fort Worth, but not much is being said by MSM. Thank God for JW and others who are letting this story be told.

People I work with are actually now looking at this website and others because of these horrible murders.

I read the police missing person report filed by Yaser Said and his son Islam.

On page 8 and 9 you can see the “statement of fact” hand written by the two.

I was really surprised to see how poorly Islam wrote and he can't spell at even a 1st grade level.
Simple words like “sister” sitre, the word “back” he wrote bake, “around” he wrote arod.

Seems strange when the two girls were so smart.
I don't get it..?

http://media.star-telegram.com/smedia/2008/01/09/18/Said_missing.source.prod_affiliate.58.pdf


http://www.star-telegram.com/189/story/400347.html

Funny how "IbrahimX" hasn't reappeared!

That speaks volumes. 'Cause we gave him "what 4" with TRUTH. And he knows it.

Hey bush, don't look now but the terrorists are in your back yard, i wonder how much security is around his daughters?????????

Good point Laughs. WE must make it our business to "rile them". The police in the UK may need to man-up before this is over.

dumbledoresarmy,

That was a touching story about the little girl at the party with all the boys. Two things caught my eye:

There was no attempt at assimilation and nor will there be--probably until the little girl gets to school and is away from those boys.

Will the girl even be allowed to go to school or will she be kept at home with her mother? I can't imagine her going to a public school since they are not segregated by sex.

"This is a belief system that is 100 percent incompatible with American values, and the Americans will not accept this."

We may not accept it for ourselves but our multicultural ethic would prohibit our denying someone else the freedom to live as they choose. Can't you hear CAIR yelling how American values are being "imposed" on this family?

It's a story that makes me thank God that my ancestors left Europe for America.

'Coming late to the party.

Did you see this picture of the brother, Islam, looking at Amina in her coffin.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/pt/slideshows/2008/01/saidfuneral_010608/

Is it just me or does it strike you too that he seems very casual, with his hands in his pockets, as he stares down at the results of what he's done?

A few more thoughts.

I hope the police covering the case are putting dear, sweet, oh-so-distressed Mr Zohair Zaidi through the wringer, too.

Turn them all upside down and inside out, separately- the mother, the brother, Mr Zaidi, Mr Massoud Nasseri, and every relative of Mr Said's that lives within the USA, not forgetting the imam of the mosque where the funeral was held, and every last Muslim who came to that funeral. That anonymous 'relative' with whom murderous Mr Said plotted to tap the girls' phone lines - who is he, where is he?

Hold them in separate cells - interview them one by one and then pop them each back in their cell incommunicado till you're done with the lot. Video the interviews and get a couple of trained 'face-readers' [google Silvan Tomkins, Paul Ekman, Wallace Friesen, Facial Action Coding System] to watch them in slow-mo, frame by frame.

Given the closed nature of the Muslim 'community', this murder is analogous to the body in the library during the houseparty - everyone in the house is a suspect.

See how many different stories you get. Compare and contrast. Count the eye-stretching lies that will, I am sure, proliferate.

Then run those stories against the picture of the marriage, and of the girls, that is provided by the mother's non-Muslim family members, and by the girls' schoolteachers and non-Muslim schoolfriends.

Before you ask the non-Muslim witnesses for their side of the story, discreetly inquire whether any of them had ever received threats from members of the Muslim community. If so, apply the same witness protection procedures as for a Mafia or other 'crime family' case.

I would bet even money that the girls' non-Muslim friends and non-Muslim family, perhaps even their schoolteachers and the priest who conducted their Christian funeral, have been threatened, perhaps even before the murder, but certainly since it happened; probably also the police officers, or their families.

Instead of 'sensitivity training', it's time to cut the crap - Islam 101 (as linked at the top of this website) for every Infidel cop.
Time for 'Submission', 'Infidel' and 'Onward Muslim Soldiers' to be circulated to every Infidel copshop and police academy everywhere.

Time for rookie cops to get a grounding on what sharia does to women - especially the wife-beating, the insane rape law, and the obsession with control that leads to 'honour' killings like this, killings for having a non-Muslim boyfriend (contrary to sharia) or not covering (contrary to sharia), or for questioning Islam (blasphemy/ apostasy). There should be a dog-eared copy of 'PIG to Islam and the Crusades', and 'The Truth About Muhammad' in every copshop in or near a Muslim colony.

Our cops on-the-beat need to know all about taqiyya and kitman, and the contempt that Islam so often produces, toward Infidel lives, toward the lives of those thought insufficiently Islamic, and toward Infidel law.

Future Aminas and Sarahs will be a lot safer when Robert Spencer and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Phyllis Chesler get regular invitations to address classes at the police academies.

joesamas mama - you live right in the same town. I don't suppose you can afford to send a copy of 'PIG to Islam and the Crusades' (bookmarked to the chapter 'Islam Oppresses Women') or 'The Truth About Muhammad', with a polite-but-concerned covering letter and a referral to this website, to the top man at the Irving Police Department?

As for the High School the girls attended...is anyone here game to try to arrange for signed copies of 'Infidel' and 'The Caged Virgin', and a DVD of 'Submission', to be presented to the school library, 'in sacred memory'? If the librarian is too scared to accept, offer Geraldine Brooks' "Nine Parts of Desire", which seems a lot softer, but comes down gratifyingly hard in the final chapter - where Brooks discusses an Islamically-motivated honor killing in a western country.

Her son, Islam, 19, agreed.

"Why is it every time an Arab father kills a daughter, it's an honor killing?" Islam said. "It didn't have anything to do with that." He declined to answer other questions.

Answer: Maybe because they do it with such regularity and the one thing that all these murderers have in common is not that they are Arab but that they are moslem. The Arab part is a rhetorical ploy used by moslems whenever their cult cimes under fire. They conveniently twist the topic toward 'racism' which they know will cow a great number of Westerners.

'Coming late to the party.

Did you see this picture of the brother, Islam, looking at Amina in her coffin.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/pt/slideshows/2008/01/saidfuneral_010608/

Is it just me or does it strike you too that he seems very casual, with his hands in his pockets, as he stares down at the results of what he's done?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 10, 2008 9:11 PM

Agree with you, Isabella. I can hear him thinking, "You got what you deserved, whore."

All of the photos were horrific. First time I've seen Patricia Said - wow, if one could judge from appearances...And how come she wasn't dressed Islamically?

Morning Darcy,

Dear Lord in heaven, neither of my two brothers would ever treat me that way. They'd mess up anybody who did, like normal brothers are supposed to act.

Patricia Said is perhaps the most tragic American I've ever encountered. She must have had problems at home to have married Mr.-Control-Freak at the age of 15 years and instead of him saving her, she embarked with him on a life of abuse and horror. You can see it in her demeanor. She looks much older than her 35 years. Now, for the rest of her life, she has to live with the knowledge that by being weak and going back, she delivered those two adorable girls to be murdered.

For the people here who say they don't feel sorry for Patricia, you've got to be kidding. She is a product of the worst aspects of living under Islam and should be a warning to any dumb American woman who gets tangled up with a charming Muslim man. I know, I was involved with one myself one time but my strong faith and a cry for help to God, (and His gracious agreement to help me,) extricated me from the situation. People can blame her, but they can't dismiss her. She is one of the walking dead among us.

her 35 years. --posted above.

What?! Oh man...


"...should be a warning to any dumb American woman who gets tangled up with a charming Muslim man. I know, I was involved with one myself one time" --Isabella

A number of years ago in more youthful times (and before 9/11) I had a few dates with one "Mohsen" from Tunisia! Can you believe? me, darcy! Hoo boy.
Anyway, after the 2nd date I just felt really repulsed by him, despite his being "charming," so that was it -Goodbye, Mohsen. Now, I thank God for my instincts, and that I eschewed any "involvement." Which he *wanted* very much, I could tell.

Never downplay the importance of your sheer gut instincts.

I'm glad that God helped you from your situation, Isabella. He has certainly helped me with various difficult matters, too. Luv ya, darcy

In a brief phone call in which she declined to comment further, his wife, Patricia, angrily rejected the notion that Mr. Said's Muslim religion or culture had anything to do with the murders.

Well, that, and various other statements certainly dashes any hope she might explain Islam as her husband lived it, as he explained it to her and to the children--not the 'Islam is peaceful' nonsense that journalists so eagerly promote.

I was hoping she would publicly decry dear old dad's likely insistence that his Muslim daughters be circumcised, and that she, as a caring American mother, successfully shielded her daughters from the knife/piece of glass/whatever.

If they had been circumcised will the Coroner's Report make mention of it? Would the Coroner know to look?

Had dad already arranged their marriages, either here or in the old country?

What Islamic teachings or Muslim customs--the practice of which would violate the United States Constitution and American law-- had these American born, American citizens been subjected to, with mom and Juniors overt knowledge?

And with the whispered knowledge of the in-laws, and school officials, and police departments, and....

I just watched the video of the girl’s funeral.

I found the brothers plea cold, most of all this statement;

“I’ll get you a lawyer to help you out”.

He says;

“Dad just turn yourself in, and, if, you know, if you do, I’ll get you a lawyer
to help you out
.Maybe they won’t put you on death row, but, a, you can sit in prison and think about what you done.”

http://www.dentonrc.com/video/index.html?nvid=206048

Hi Miss Darcy,

You're a real sweetie!


Joe, your link with the video infuriates me. These smug bastards think they've pulled one over on us, but they are mistaken.

These two girls haunt my mind. There is something about them that is so darling and we as a nation were not able to protect them. And the scum who did this are so embarrassingly pathetic. Are we going to let these backward, sex-crazed, cave dwellers do this to our girls?

All three of these beautiful girls cried out for help over the years and because our societies cannot fathom the brutality of father killing daughter those who could have helped were not able to see the gravity of their situations. We need to wake up and listen not just as individuals but as communities. I can only hope that in the coming years the women of islam will step up, organize and fight for their rights as human beings. There can be nothing less honorable than snuffing out the lives of three innocent and vital women for virtually no reason at all. Islam Said is a stupid boy and I fear lost for all eternity. May their souls rest in peace.

Hi Isabella, you too!


"Islam Said is a stupid boy" --posted above

He makes me want to hurl. Notice how the girls are dead but the boy lives? Nothing says "Islam" like daughter-slaughter. Males get away with everything - they are accountable for nothing in Islam.

I would like to say that everyone on this board is very uneducated in regards to the islamic religon. You are all a bunch of red necks that sit and talk as soon as you here a muslim man did. I live in the USA and this week alone around the country of you so called best country to live in. A asian man killed his 4 kids, another man burned all of his kids do to a spell, another man beat his daughter to death, another man killed both his little hispanic girls and notice how I say man without saying these christian men did this because im not ignorant to say that there are crazy in every religion if you took the time to read the Holy Quran like I did you would relize that it is SOOOOOOOOOOO close to your bible its not funny You might want to read the part about what both religions thing of Homosexual Identicle. You must be so lazy that you just want other people to do the reading for you so you can sayyyyyyyyy ohhhhhh is that what that meant come on Hellooooo!!!!! Wake up America get educated read the facts america is the most uneducated country in the world. I bet you didnt know there are more muslims in Japan then there are in Saudi Arabia just 1 fact, The Honoured Killing that happened in Iraq was that Muslims BLeeeep wrong it was a religios sect that beleives in a combined religion of christians and Jews. She accually was killed for loving a muslim.
Please just read and get your heads out of the sand.

I would like to say that everyone on this board is very uneducated in regards to the islamic religon. You are all a bunch of red necks that sit and talk as soon as you here a muslim man did. I live in the USA and this week alone around the country of you so called best country to live in. A asian man killed his 4 kids, another man burned all of his kids do to a spell, another man beat his daughter to death, another man killed both his little hispanic girls and notice how I say man without saying these christian men did this because im not ignorant to say that there are crazy in every religion if you took the time to read the Holy Quran like I did you would relize that it is SOOOOOOOOOOO close to your bible its not funny You might want to read the part about what both religions thing of Homosexual Identicle. You must be so lazy that you just want other people to do the reading for you so you can sayyyyyyyyy ohhhhhh is that what that meant come on Hellooooo!!!!! Wake up America get educated read the facts america is the most uneducated country in the world. I bet you didnt know there are more muslims in Japan then there are in Saudi Arabia just 1 fact, The Honoured Killing that happened in Iraq was that Muslims BLeeeep wrong it was a religios sect that beleives in a combined religion of christians and Jews. She accually was killed for loving a muslim.
Please just read and get your heads out of the sand.

I would like to say that everyone on this board is very uneducated in regards to the islamic religon. You are all a bunch of uneducated americans that sit and talk as soon as you here a muslim man did. I live in the USA and this week alone around the country of you so called best country to live in. A asian man killed his 4 kids, another man burned all of his kids do to a spell, another man beat his daughter to death, another man killed both his little hispanic girls and notice how I say man without saying these christian men did this because im not ignorant to say that there are crazy in every religion if you took the time to read the Holy Quran like I did you would relize that it is SOOOOOOOOOOO close to your bible its not funny You might want to read the part about what both religions thing of Homosexual Identicle. You must be so lazy that you just want other people to do the reading for you so you can sayyyyyyyyy ohhhhhh is that what that meant come on Hellooooo!!!!! Wake up America get educated read the facts america is the most uneducated country in the world. I bet you didnt know there are more muslims in Japan then there are in Saudi Arabia just 1 fact, The Honoured Killing that happened in Iraq was that Muslims BLeeeep wrong it was a religios sect that beleives in a combined religion of christians and Jews. She accually was killed for loving a muslim.
Please just read and get your heads out of the sand.

Now Lady Cali, that took real guts, coming here after everyone's left the thread and leaving your illogical spew.

As an uneducated American I'd like to point out that in this sentence from your post,

"You are all a bunch of uneducated americans that sit and talk as soon as you here a muslim man did,"

the words "americans" and "muslim" both should be capitalized and the word "here," used here to describe the ability to perceive with the ear, is spelled "hear".

I'm curious...as a Muslim women how do you feel about the consequences, as they pertain to women, contained in these passages from your Holy Quran below? And since you think I'm an uneducated American, would you please show me where it says in my Bible that women may be beaten by their husbands if they fear disobedience from them, that it's okay to starve a woman to death if four men say she committed acts of lewdness or that my inheritance is worth 1/2 of a mans? Thanks in advance.

004.015
YUSUFALI: If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or Allah ordain for them some (other) way.
PICKTHAL: As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).
SHAKIR: And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

004.011
YUSUFALI: Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children's (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half. For parents, a sixth share of the inheritance to each, if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased Left brothers (or sisters) the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases ('s) after the payment of legacies and debts. Ye know not whether your parents or your children are nearest to you in benefit. These are settled portions ordained by Allah; and Allah is All-knowing, Al-wise.

In the American Court, you put innocent men and women in jail without even knowing if they commit a crime, In the Quran it states that you have to have 4 witnesses who has seen the criminal do anything from murder to adultery before they will be punished. Regardless if they are female or male. In the American courts you put them in Jail regardless if anyone has seen them commit the crime and even KILL them in electric chairs gas chambers. I am sorry when the Quran was made they didn't have these things readily available, so they used Stoning instead. I have traveled to the middle east and No they do not stone women it is an Old Barbaric custom just like the Bible has many and I mean Many Barbaric customs. Used in other countries dominated by men. If you read the case in Iraq last week where they stoned a women to death in the nude, I could not believe my eyes as Muslims do not do such a thing like the American portray them to do and it was done by the Kurdish people who are NOT Muslims they are Yazidi religion if you Google that word you will find out that they are half JEWS AND CHRIS.
Regarding the women getting half the guy, in the middle east today when the women get married she moves in with the husbands family and inherits everything the husband has and half of what her parents have while there brother stays in the home with the parent's take double what his sister gets because she will get her husbands half while he has to use the extra half he gets to take care and put through school any unmarried brother or sister, take care of any parent still alive, any grandparent still alive and aunts or uncle who do not have kids to take care of them my opinion the girl got the better deal and the money that she the sister takes is hers not her husband to invest and use as she pleases.
You can take any religion you hate and change it to your liking or your hating I am a female Muslim and love it there are many religions I do not agree with but, thats only my opinion for such a hated religion in the usa it is also the fastest growing religion in the World.

So you are okay with the parts about starving a woman to death or your husband beating you if he fears disobedience from you?

You said, "No they do not stone women it is an Old Barbaric custom just like the Bible has many and I mean Many Barbaric customs. Used in other countries dominated by men."

Please list here the Old Barbaric customs that you mention above and where they are happening today.

Here's a case where a woman in Afghanistan asked for a divorce and her husband accused her of adultery so the Taliban stoned her to death. The Taliban is a Muslim organization and Afghanistan is a Muslim country. And stoning is in your precious Q'uran.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4477003.stm

An Iranian court sentenced this woman to death by stoning. http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0638,hentoff,74473,6.html

Here's a case of two women in Sudan being sentenced to stoning last year, under Sharia. The trial was conducted in Arabic, not their native language, so they could not effectively defend themselves. Sharia is the Muslim law based on Mohammad's teachings in the Q'uran. And Arabic is the language we are told the Q'uran must be read in to get the full meaning. Is this ringing any bells for you? http://www.thepiratescove.us/?p=3669
It was carried out here:http://www.wethewomen.org/entry/two-women-stoned-to-death-in-sudan/

This woman was sentenced to stoning and then freed under Sharia (Islamic) law. http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/09/25/nigeria.stoning/

In Nigeria:
http://blogforbooks.com/archives/2006/07/13/woman-stoned-to-death-in-nigeria-for-street-evangelism/

In Iran 2001:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1435760.stm

I especially like the story about the woman who was stoned but escaped. Under Sharia law if she escaped she was to be set free, but the opfficials in charge shot her anyway. So much for Allah the merciful.
http://www.vibrani.com/stoning.htm

http://www.themuslimwoman.org/entry/a-woman-and-two-men-stoned-and-shot-dead-in-pakistan-their-crime-adultery/

Scroll down to the bottom on this one:
http://www.mehrangizkar.com/english/azadeh/

Here is another in Iran and if you scroll down you can read the Hadith on stoning.
http://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/stoningetc/stoning.htm#anchor200527

I could go on but I've got things to do today. Lady Cali, you owe it to yourself to get educated and stop defending the indefensible. Your life may someday depend on it, girlfriend!







Not Peace But A Sword by Robert SpencerDid Muhammad Exist? The Muslim Brotherhood in America, by Robert SpencerIslamophobia: Thoughtcrime of the Totalitarian FutureMuslim Persecution of Christians, by Robert Spencer Obama and IslamThe Ground Zero Mosque: Second Wave of the 9/11 Attacks
The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran


Stealth Jihad


The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam


The Truth About Muhammad


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Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

"The consummate Islam critic and expert." — Bruce Bawer

“Over the years, we have become friends, and I have received his assistance on several pieces of legislation I proposed.”
Former Congressman Tom Tancredo

“Few people are capable of applying scholarship, analytical reasoning, and objectivity to their topic -- while simultaneously being readable and witty -- as can Robert Spencer.”
Raymond Ibrahim

“A national treasure...The acclaimed scholar of Islam.”
Frank Gaffney, Center for Security Policy

“I am indeed honored to call him my friend.”
Brad Thor, novelist

“A top American analyst of Islam....A serious scholar...I learn from him.”
Daniel Pipes

“A brilliant scholar and writer.”
Douglas Murray

"One of my best teachers."
Ashraf Ramelah, Voice of the Copts

“Thank God there’s at least one man with balls left in the West.”
Kathy Shaidle, Five Feet of Fury

“I read people like [Mark Steyn] and Bob Spencer and the rest of them, and I say, ‘Boortz, you’re pretending you’re an author. These people really are. They really write some entertaining, some standup stuff.’”
Neal Boortz

“Robert Spencer is the Stephen King of Jihad.”
Chris Gaubatz, Muslim Mafia

“Armed with facts and fearlessness, Spencer stands up for Western civilization.”
Michelle Malkin

“Widely read in conservative foreign policy circles.”
New York Times

“Widely read in many quarters in Washington.”
Washington Post

“A canny operative who likely has the inside track on the State Department’s Middle East affairs desk should the tea party win the White House.”
New York Magazine

“A hero of the American right.”
Karen Armstrong

"The leading anti-Islamic intellectual in the United States....The go-to Islam expert for the right wing."
Salon Magazine

“Robert Spencer is an Edward Said turned upside down.”
Stephen Suleyman Schwartz

“One of the nation's most notorious Islamophobes.”
Hamas-linked CAIR

"Geller and Spencer are probably the most important propagandizing Islamophobes in the world. These people's voices speak very loudly — not just here in the United States but overseas."
Heidi Beirach, Southern Poverty Law Center

“Satanic ignoramus.”
Khaleel Mohammed

“The Likud anti-Christ.”
Dar al-Hayat newspaper (Saudi Arabia)

“Zionist Crusader, missionary of hate, counter-Islam consultant.”
Al-Qaeda’s Adam Gadahn, “Azzam the American”



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