Did you even know that the wicked Zionists were supplying electricity and water to Gaza in the first place? Just stop and consider for a moment the implications of that fact in light of the febrile Leftist/jihadist rhetoric about Israel.
Meanwhile, at this point it would create an extremely interesting situation if Israel formally ceded Gaza back to Egypt, recognizing Egyptian sovereignty there as it prevailed before 1967. What would that do for the push for a Palestinian state? Would BushRice insist that the Mubarak regime relinquish Gaza to the sovereignty of the Palestinians?
"Israel says it wants no ties with Gaza," from AP (thanks to Louis):
JERUSALEM - A top Israeli defense official said Thursday that Israel wants to relinquish all responsibility for the Gaza Strip, including the supply of electricity and water, now that the territory's southern border with Egypt has been opened."We need to understand that when Gaza is open to the other side we lose responsibility for it," Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai said, according to his office. "So we want to disconnect from it."
It was not immediately clear if Vilnai spoke for the entire government.
"We want to stop supplying electricity to them, stop supplying them with water and medicine, so that it would come from another place," Vilnai said.
Israel will continue to be responsible for the flow of such supplies into the Gaza Strip until an alternative is found, the office quoted him as saying.
""We want to stop supplying electricity to them, stop supplying them with water and medicine, so that it would come from another place," Vilnai said."
....absolutely....now that the Egyptian border is open...maybe the Palestinians will shell the Egyptians for their water, electricity,food and medical care
...the Israelies are tired of this payment arrangement...
" until an alternative is found"
Catch 22.
WHY ARE EGYPTIANS KEEPING PALESTINIANS OUT?
Why has Egypt erected a metal wall at their border with the Palestinians, Biblically known as the Philistines? Do they think that the Philistines are so bad that they have to prevent any dealings with them? They're probably right if they do, but immensely hyprocritical nonetheless.
Palestine is now being run by a RADICAL terrorist group--HAMAS--after HAMAS OVERTHREW their own government and imposed radically violent Muslim rule. SO it's bombs away for the Palestinians as they lob their explosives over the Israeli border on a continual basis. Why does ISrael subsidize it's own shelling? They need to stop doing business with their sworn enemy. They're acting as stupid as America, which is shocking.
Here are a few statistics to chew on.
Israel has a population of a little over 7 million; Gaza a population of a little under 1.5 million. That means Gaza has about 20 per cent the population of Israel.
That would be almost exactly equivalent to the United States--at a little over 300 million--supplying water and electricity to a population the size of the entire United Kingdom (60 million).
That might put a bit of a dent in the national budget, eh wot?
That doesn't begin to address all the other aid Israel has offered Gaza, including maintaining their sewer system (for which Israeli engineers had to devise the use of heavy-duty plastic pvc pipes, because Palistinians would did up metal sewer pipes to use making mortars), and of course those long-destroyed donated greenhouses that were meant to jump-start the Gazan economy.
"They're acting as stupid as America, which is shocking.
Posted by: Tookson"
...once, long ago, I thought no one could do it...
**NEWSFLASH**
Arabs throughout the world rejoice as Israel signals desire to cede it to Egypt
AP- Saudi officials indicated they would provide a package of grants and loans to the Egyptian government as Gaza was warmly received back into its territory. President Mubarak announced the deal was finalized this week, and was clearly elated to have the Gaza Strip back under Egyptian control. Muslim leaders throughout the Islamic world signaled their support and congratulations.
**NEWSFLASH OVER**
Israel needs to set a cutoff date. Gaza is Egypt's problem now.
**NEWSFLASH**
Arabs throughout the world rejoice as Israel signals desire to cede it to Egypt
AP- Saudi officials indicated they would provide a package of grants and loans to the Egyptian government as Gaza was warmly received back into its territory. President Mubarak announced the deal was finalized this week, and was clearly elated to have the Gaza Strip back under Egyptian control. Muslim leaders throughout the Islamic world signaled their support and congratulations.
**NEWSFLASH OVER**
Israel needs to set a cutoff date. Gaza is Egypt's problem now.
Sorry about the double post.
Is there anyone who DOESN'T 'want no ties with Gaza'? Those people are crazy.
Instead of ceding Gaza back to Egypt,
it should be ceding Gazans back to Egypt.
Meanwhile, at this point it would create an extremely interesting situation if Israel formally ceded Gaza back to Egypt, recognizing Egyptian sovereignty there as it prevailed before 1967
I have thought this for quite some time, but have heard virtually no one propose this idea. It seems to me that this is one of the few viable alternatives to the madness going on right now. The fact is that Gaza and Judea are too small (not to mention geographically separated) to constitute a viable state. The only logical motive behind the so -called 'Two State Solution' is the creation of a temporary entity that is meant to eventually annex tiny Israel and transform it from the only true homeland for the Jewish people, into yet another Arab Muslim theocracy. I'm certainly not claiming that all who endorse the Two State Solution in fact hold this motive, but rather, that its desired outcome is the only plausible result of such a 'Two State' policy.
Why is the, so called, palestinian problem is always Israel's anyway? These people deserve nothing from Israel. Let the arabs and Egypt babysit them for awhile and mark my words they will learn what Jordan learned long ago. The palestinians bite the hand that feeds them.
I am sincerely interested in hearing opinions about the viability and ramifications of Israel ceding Gaza to Egypt and the non-Jewish portions of the 'West Bank' to Jordan.
Best news ever.
I guarantee that while the 'Arab world rejoices', however, Egypt is about to do a sudden about face - they know better than to let the Palestinians in. Watch for Egypt to suddenly find a new found determinnation in locking down the border with Gaza.
Even if the Egyptians were pressured into keeping the border down they would immediately declare Gaza a sovereign entity and disavow any control or knowledge of the renewed rocket attacks. The Egyptian government, however, is a better public relations target to take responsibility from the Iraeli POV, however, as they won't be able to blame international sanctions and Israeli 'oppression' for an inability to secure their new borders. Israel and supporters need to really push this idea - ultimately it really is the best scenario for both Israelis and Palestinians. Israelis will no longer need to support a people intent on Israel's destruction, and the Palestinians may see some of their hate wane as they intermingle and interact with the (somewhat) more moderate Egyptians.
I would like to see if there are any other Israeli politicians who endorse giving Gaza back to Egypt? I think it's a great idea.
Oh. And every time ANYTHING gets shot into Israel from Gaza then Israel has the right to respond in direct proportion. Quite literally, if Hamas is lobbing mortars and using snipers then Israel should do the same exact thing just as indiscrimiately. Don't care. Do not care what any confused Leftist thinks of that. The right to self-defense is a basic human right and a basic right to any sovereign nation.
As far as I know, Gaza was never annexed by Egypt, just administered.
I keep thinking that Israel should react in a 'Pavlovian' manner to rocket attacks. At each attack, cut water and electricity for a brief period, say 6 hours, so the Palestinians will percieve the cutoffs as a direct consequence of the attacks, not as some brutal punishment.
That should trigger a clear, popular reaction against the terrorist groups.
antishock8, I could hardly agree less. While it may be tempting to just strike back like that, it's evil and ineffective.
Sure, they're being smeared for it all the time, but that doesn't mean they should do it. The rest of the world would be on them in a flash.
Striking the leaders is a pretty good strategy. The leaders *will* know that they risk getting a missile directed to their car for each attack, which presumably (doesn't quite look like it, though) holds them back a bit. And a high mortality rate for leaders also discourages other able persons from filling the ranks.
What I think the Israelis *should* do, however, is to strike back after each and every rocket attack somehow. Not necessarily a big strike (those tend to get negative press reactions anyway), just take out a leader here, a rocket position there. Or, as I suggested above, by switching off electricity immediately.
They certainly are kinder than I am. Once that first rocket came over into my property from them - I would have shut it off then. I just wonder why they waited so long?!!
And then I would have struck back with a rocket of my own.
The next rocket they lobbed over - I would have done something else - never let them into Jerusalem. Or start taking that mosque apart and lobbing pieces of that back at them.
Slightly OT: Just looking at todays pictures. Muslims carry a coffin from Egypt to Gaza.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_pictures/7209199.stm
As I understand, Muslims refuse burying people in coffins but wrap them in white sheets (as demonstrated by hundreds of pictures of their dead beeing paraded around in Gaza as well as the refusal to comply with infidel burying rites in Western Europe.
Am I right to assume the coffin is loaded with weapons?
Try to imagine it at the local level, even at the level of the street you live in. Imagine that someone on your block sits in his house, receiving strange shipments from chemical companies, and he is already known -- the police have told you they have reason to believe, but for some reason have not obtained a search warrant and gone in, that his house is loaded with assault weapons -- Kalashnikovs, bazookas, home-made rockets. Oh, and another thing. Apparently he is a great reader and collector of hate literature, from the Nazis on up, down, and sideways, and has repeatedly attacked any neighbor who comes near his house, and has repeatedly been driven away, in the middle of the night, while attempting to vandalize or damage the cars and houses up and down the block. There are unsolved rapes and murders in the town, and the police tell you he is the prime suspect, but still they haven't quite managed to arrive at the stage of arresting him, or even of criticizing him.
And you have built, at your own expense, a power generator, which you have generously agreed --you did so a while back -- to let various neighbors on the block, including this particular neighbor, use. But he has gotten into the habit of sending his rockets in the direction of your house, and you and your children are fearful of stepping outside as you once did. And finally you decide to remove him from the electricity grid,the one supplied by your very own generator.
And he yells about your "persection" and "oppression" and, what's more, so do a lot of other people. Why, a special town meeting is held to denounce you, and the town newspaper carries an editorial about your "vicious" behavior.
Have I left anything out? If so, still be kind, and eke out my performance with your mind.
As long as you get the drift.
The first good idea I've seen come out of Israel in some time: give Gaza to Egypt. Overnight, the terrorists in Gaza become "state actors".
Israel once knew how to deal with state actors.
At each attack, cut water and electricity for a brief period, say 6 hours, so the Palestinians will percieve the cutoffs as a direct consequence of the attacks, not as some brutal punishment.
Will this work when the Palestinians and those who are launching the rockets are one and the same and have the same goal? Would the people really "rise up" against the terror groups or would they join them against Israel?
Given that it no longer occupies Gaza, Israel should be freed of all responsibilities for Gazans' welfare. The fact that the Egyptians treat Gaza and its inhabitants as a pawn in their game is not Israel's fault.
PMK:
"Will this work when the Palestinians and those who are launching the rockets are one and the same and have the same goal?"
I believe it would, and work well. Perhaps I make take flak for this, but I firmly believe that most of the Palestinians, like most Muslims in general, are not vile Jihad warriors. Most of them are trying desperately to make it through the day, feed and protect their children etc.
If these people experience that each attack on Israel disrupts their lives on a very practical level, they should gain motivation to kick out the rocket squads from their neighbourhood just for the sake of their own children. And in case this civil revolt against the extremists succeeds, Israel could keep supplying basic utilities. Assuming it gets paid for it, of course.
Henrik,
I once believed as you do, that most Muslims weren't jihad warriors. However their behavior suggests otherwise. They're not warriors but they share the same goal as the warriors. Otherwise they would have turned against the jihadists long before this.
The memory of "peaceful" Palestinians dancing in the streets as the Twin Towers fell lives on.
The Israelis left Gaza, ending the hated "occupation". There is still no change in their behavior.
Let Israel begin to cut off food and water and these people will call for action against Israel.
Make that electricity and water.
5-pillar of Islam requires that if one does not join in arm struggle, he must still pay zakat, which is 20% of his income for the contribution of the Martydom.
Zakat is mandator, and sedakah is voluntery.
Listening to Neil Sedaka, on the other hand, can sometimes, unfortunately, be involuntary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgDZOhQbmRs
See what I mean?
Yes.
Sadaka has always been abused, especial after 1930. Intimidation and extortion, instead of voluntary giving.
All in all they give about 35%. As a dhimmi, I paid 35% and received not public service. The state owns electricity, phone, and water, but there was no water when I turned on the tap. Electricity can be shut down when someone in the government want money from me, and same with telephone.
When the was fire, they there was not a firefighter that would come to the non-muslim neighborhood; they let it burn to ground.
They certainly are kinder than I am. Once that first rocket came over into my property from them - I would have shut it off then. I just wonder why they waited so long?!! ~ Rnot
Don't you know, the State of Israel is a selfish, agressive neighborhood bully!
I can't make up my mind which film version I like better, so here are both.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlHlXHimo_g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RC_60b2NR1I
Condi Rice pressured Israel to give up control of the Philedephi corredor for "peace", which was supposed to have been policed for arms infiltration by the EU. So much for that. Now, I read she's pressuring Israel to continue supplying Gaza. How many days left in Bush's term? I'm counting them.
Hugh,
You've articulated my own point of view on these 'living arrangements' down to the smallest detail. I often use this very example when talking with friends who don't seem to understand what's going on over there.
What has befuddled me for years now, is WHY the good neighbor with the generator has continued to tolerate the actions of his bad neighbor for so long and still there are no reprecussions for his aggressive actions? I'm a reasonably intelligent person most days. I have at least a little bit of common sense and the ability to judge right from wrong. Why is it that I can see the rationality behind punishing the bad neighbor, but the guy with the generator can't? It's obvious that his good intentions of helping out the neighbor carry no weight- aggressions continue and intensify all the time. So why is it so difficult to accept the fact that the bad neighbor needs to be 'shut down'?
Besides electricity and water, I find it most ironic that the Arab "Palestinians" would rely on the Infidel for their oil supply. Their friends in Iran could send fuel oil instead of IFD'S and rocket launchers.
I meant "IED's".
This story about the Chinese fire drill within the Israeli government during the bad press situation that was handed to Hamas this week.
Makes you wonder who is on whose side?
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=12010
70787685&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Sounds a lot like the US government, doesn't it.
"So why is it so difficult to accept the fact that the bad neighbor needs to be 'shut down'?
Posted by: livefreeordie! "
...THe Islamic PR people have , up to now, done a fine job of playing the victim card ....anything done to the Muslims in the way of corrective action is deemed to be agressive and discriminatory to Muslims....(and therein is the big lie),,,
Take it, Please Take it, Please take it back.
Can you imagine the reaction when Israel demands the Egyptians do something about the acts of War their Charges are committing.
One Brotherhood pitted against another.
Israel is bashed so much about how it cares for the Palestinians, then it only stands to reason to relinquish the responsibility to those more qualified.
We have been foolish in resisting the obvious superior intellectual abilities of the Muslim Mind that could be brought to bear. You know, Good old Islamic Ingenuity.
No doubt that Egypt could do a bang up job.
Have at it Brotherhood. Who's side is Allah really on?
Is this part of the Big "Plan" for Middle East Peace and the 2 state solution?
The power stations that supply most of Gaza's juice are located in the Israeli city of Ashkelon, into which Palestinian terrorists have been launching rockets at a furious rate the past few days!
from WND
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59863
Let Israel hold a press conference and say that the repeated shelling of Ashkelon makes supplying electricity dangerous. The plant must be shut down for safety reasons until the shelling stops. Palestinians are endangering the power station. Sorry.
From article: Did you even know that the wicked Zionists were supplying electricity and water to Gaza in the first place?
Yep, I did know that, and I could never figure out just exactly why. Maybe it's because the average Israeli is just too nice. No, it can't be that.
'Apes' and 'pigs' can never be nice. And how can a bunch of evil Zionists be nice when they are behind every dastardly deed done on the planet since God talked to Moses. Well, almost every dastardly deed, Geo Bush broke the eight year record for dastardly deeds in 2003. I wonder if Israel told Bush in advance of these plans, and if Bush approves.
Shut off all utilities, tell Egypt, 'it's all yours baby', and guard the perimeter, while Egypt sooths the savage breast of it's returning lost tribes. Egypt will probably have to subdue Hamas.
I wonder what the Hamas terrorists will do for work? I don't think Fatah will give them jobs.
I guess they will just have to move to Lebanon and join Hezbollah. I don't think Fatah wants them after all the trouble Hamas has given them.
If this is actually done, it will be interesting to see the fall out...
Egypt had made a very stupid mistake by letting the wall un-manned. Now that the wall has come down, Israel said, “Well, you broke it, now you own it.” With that being said, suddenly Egypt comes to realize that there are heavy international consequences for re-inheriting pest infest Gaza—Hamas could ultimately turn Egyptian government impotent, similar to that of the Palestinian Authority.
All Muslim nations grieve for Palestinian in the international forum, but no Muslim country wants to own them.
This is good news for Israel. There is no need for a new nation living side by side with Israel because Egypt with its Gaza territory is already a nation living side by side with Israel. Now, the hard thing, for Egypt to re-inherit Gaza, is to take responsibility to disarm Hamas.
El Shaddai!
Egypt had made a very stupid mistake by letting the wall un-manned. Now that the wall has come down, Israel said, “Well, you broke it, now you own it.” With that being said, suddenly Egypt comes to realize that there are heavy international consequences for re-inheriting pest infest Gaza—Hamas could ultimately turn Egyptian government impotent, similar to that of the Palestinian Authority.
All Muslim nations grieve for Palestinian in the international forum, but no Muslim country wants to own them.
This is good news for Israel. There is no need for a new nation living side by side with Israel because Egypt with its Gaza territory is already a nation living side by side with Israel. Now, the hard thing, for Egypt to re-inherit Gaza, is to take responsibility to disarm Hamas.
El Shaddai!
duh_swami wrote:
"I wonder what the Hamas terrorists will do for work? I don't think Fatah will give them jobs."
This brings up a point from Robert's 23 January article: _Asked what sort of work he hoped to do in Iraq, Nas replied: 'Martyr'_
"Many list their occupations at home, whether plumber, laborer, policeman, lawyer, soldier or teacher. There is a "massage specialist," a "weapons merchant," a few "unemployed" and many students."
"The youngest was 16 when he crossed into Iraq; the oldest was 54. Most expressed interest in a suicide mission."
My point is: I have heard so many times that "terrorists" are motivated by poverty, illiteracy and lack of job skills.
I imagined the questions from the immigration officer: Aren't there any Iraqi citizens that are qualified for the job description "martyr"? Answer: No Iraqi citizens applied to the Help Wanted ad on the Al-Qaeda web site.
The Israelis certainly have the voices on the ground providing evidence for simply shutting down power on security concerns:
'We're supplying electricity to Gaza under Qassam fire'
YNet News January 21 2008
Israel Electric Corporation (IEC) workers' committee chairman, Miko Zarfati, livid at claims that Palestinians facing power shortage, saying his organization supplying vast majority of electricity to Strip.
The Israeli Electric Company (IEC) is supplying nearly 70% of electricity to the Gaza Strip despite Palestinians' claims of a power shortage in Gaza, said Miko Zarfati, the chairman of the workers' committee at the power company.
"This is Palestinian spin. No one has stopped the supply of electricity to the Strip," Zarfati told Ynet. He claimed that his employees worked day and night in a power plant in Ashkelon while putting themselves in danger of being hit by Qassam rockets falling in the area. (...)
"Instead of ceding Gaza back to Egypt,
it should be ceding Gazans back to Egypt.
Posted by: Kim Hartveld at January 25, 2008 1:18 PM"
Indeed or just bulldoze the whole works into the Mediterranean and start over...no wait that would further compromise the sea...Dig a pit and fill it in. Islam has much to be proud of.
"I have heard so many times that "terrorists" are motivated by poverty, illiteracy and lack of job skills."
I think this has been solidly debunked now. Anyone still coming out with that myth deserves a letter in one form or another.
With a now defunct barrier between Gaza and the Egyptian N. Sinai, I wonder if it will make it easier for Hamas to cause mayhem at the Suez Canal when Iran instructs it to.
A double-punch:
1. Iran hits Hormuz.
2. Hamas hits Suez (in N Sinai.)
With the support of other Palestinians in Egypt, the 300K now in N. Sinai, it should be interesting times there.
How about ceding the people, and keeping the land.
...The Palestinians have not been paying their electricity bill for a long time...what happens when you neglect your electricity bill?...
From this article
Israel must have known that Hamas was cutting away at the wall with oxy/acetylene.
Egypt, as well as all Muslim countries in the middle east, also seeks the ultimate Islamic solution of peace with "justice" in Israel, which means Islamic rule and tributary status for the Jews. Muslims will never accept any solution other than the restoration of dhimmi status of Jews under Muslim "protection" The screw is slowly turning. All the concessions given by Israel for "peace" have been to no avail, and any given in the future will also fail.
Has anyone seen the DVD "Farewell Israel" "Bush, Iran and the revolt of Islam" by Joel Gilbert?
http://www.highway61ent.com
It explains very clearly the predicament that Israel is in and the history of the conflict, and the present non existent or meager support that Israel is getting from the infidel West.
Unbelievable!! I thought this was the very "human rights crisis" that the media -- everywhere! -- was b*tching about!!
The media slant is disgusting!
http://theantisemitismwatch.blogspot.com/
....absolutely....now that the Egyptian border is open...maybe the Palestinians will shell the Egyptians for their water, electricity,food and medical care
...the Israelies are tired of this payment arrangement...
Posted by: exsgtbrown
Egyptians would shell them back and the UN Dhimmis would be silent
"what happens when you neglect your electricity bill?"
You cut the supply. Israel should be have been doing this as an instant reaction to missing payments too, I think.
buraq_is_dead,
In pic #9, captioned as "Defying attempts to reseal the border, on Friday Palestinians used a bulldozer to punch new gaps in the wall"...if I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing, it appears that bulldozer is a Caterpillar.
Does this mean the folks at stopthewall.org can call off their boycott now? After all, it does look like this Caterpillar's doing its share of wall-stopping.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article3254407.ece
Egypt was struggling to reseal the border yesterday, turning water cannon on thousands of Palestinians crossing the frontier to buy supplies. When they fired in the air at stone-throwing youths, they got a taste of Gazan fury — armed Hamas fighters rushed in and the police retreated. To reinforce the point that they were in charge, Hamas brought in a bulldozer and ploughed another hole in the broken wall. “Until we have normal crossings we'll not allow them to close the passages,” said one of the militants.
Hamas laying down the law to Egypt. They are in charge!
David Horowitz ("Obama Strikes a Chord", http://www.frontpagemag.com/) has printed a letter by Barack Obama to our UN ambassadoor Khalilzad asking that we make sure there is no vote in the UNSC as long as the rocket attacks continue from Gaza.
Obviously, Obama wants the Jewish vote, but who knows, maybe he's not unduly influenced by his Farakhan-embracing pastor, or is not just compensating for the latest media revelation of same. One can always hope, though Jimmy Carter was pro-Israel during the campaign as well.
Obama or Clinton or Romney or Rudy or John Mac make no difference; they all say, "I voted for it before I voted against it," or "I voted against it before I voted for it."
There is not reason why the US or any other nations should care about a small nation as Israel. Arabs have oil and China has cheap labors that do not need to eat more than a meal a day.
Jacob has no one on earth; he only has God; he had better phone home.
The moving up of Weddings to take advantage of the Breech in the wall suggests many on both sides knew what was up.
300,000 People by chance, are available to cross on short notice???, Knew to save their money for it.
Are we to understand everyone in the area knew what was going to happen except the Press who buzz like Flies in Gaza?
The 2 State Solution is about to become a 1+1/2 State Solution.
I bet the Egyptians never in 1400 years ever expected this getting dropped into their lap virtually overnight.
One can only dream of the peaceful discussions going on in Cairo. Let us hope they all carry side arms for their personal protection during these love feasts.
Those Jooz are SMART.. :-)
If Eqypt refuses to take additional territory as well as fellow Arab and 'moslem brothers' they will STAND EXPOSED for what they TRULY ARE!!!!
They want to use the artificial construct of Gaza and the "west Bank" as a wedge against Israel.
If this works.. let Jordan take the rest of 'em who live in Judea and Samaria.. :-)
And let the 'Jooz" keep the land.. at least they'll BUILD greenhouses there instead of destroying and vandalizing them - even when they are offered for free.
"Take my Gaza PLEASE"
Better yet.. let them take the Pals and leave Gaza to the Israelis who at least know what to do with it... I heard Gaza has good surfing.. :-)
Supplying electricity and water!!!!!!!!!!!!! They do no such thing.
They infact blocked the only plant the Palestinians have to produce electricity and water. As if the Palestinians need the help of the jews to survive you're living in dreamland. They have no need for jews nor do they want their help in anything.
They say to stop rocket attacks we will cut off supply to Gaza and the west bank. Not their own supply, which they don't give to the Palestinians anyway out of their humane ways, No, but to stop these attacks which have taken no lives, they will take the lives of at least 2000 people in the Palestinian hospitals. Old men, woman and children. Very humane. How brave of them.
Gaza,
http://www.think-israel.org/fitleberg.gazahistory.html
Thesaracen,
Dude, you're picking fights AGAIN you can't finish.
Still waiting for satisfactory answers to our questions here:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019653.php#comments
Wow! Eureka! Then it is, indeed, an Arab problem why the "Palestinians" are living like animals.
Still waiting for your responses to the questions in the above link..5..4..3..2..
Hey Boneshack,
Today thesaracen posted three rather lengthy responses on this thread: http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019690.php#comments
@thesaracen
You are a lier. Why would the Deputy Defense Minister Matan Vilnai say this if it were not true. There is no reason or advantage for him to lie. I don't buy your sympathy of Old men, woman and children. The Israeli's are loosing men, woman and children because of rocket attacks for Gaza. You started the war not Israel.
If they block the only plant that is run buy Moslims (which I dought they know how) you would not be able to post your message here. No electricity no Internet.
Keep shooting of you mouth you won't convince anyone here of you lies.
Champ,
Thanks for the update. I hadn't caught the latest responses he made.
My sincerest apologies to everyone here at JW/DW that this discussion has spilled over here.
Nonetheless, he has proven my point, posted at 10.25pm
These hard-done by people managed to get a Bulldozer and diesel fuel to knock down the wall , and many of the people I saw were overweight females carrying fat children .
Maybe if Hamas took some of the money needed to buy Hijabs to ID their Muslim population of females and built their own water and Electric systems to be ready for the independence they demand .
Palestinians and Hamas remind me of the dogs I would see on my street that chased every car and barked at the tires and bumpers , seems that when the car came to a halt at a stop sign and the dof now had the car it didn't know what to do with it.
Hamas keeps chasing the dream of Independence to justify Terrorism and slaughtering civilians but once they are about to be handed what they want they don't know what to do with it.
@ala-sux
I understand you logic but you missed one important point they don't want Israel as a neighbor, period. That is the only nation state they are thinking of.
Get It!
Here is a quot by one of their leaders on what they want;
re: ala-sux at January 25, 2008 11:57 PM -
"Maybe if Hamas took some of the money ... and built their own water and Electric systems to be ready for the independence they demand."
If you give "Palestinians" funding for such things, they're never built. The money buys weapons and explosives to kill Jews, or vanishes into the vaults of the leaders. If you give the materials or equipment, they're sold for money. ibid.
And the swine see no need to pretend otherwise, given the Jew-hating traditions of the EU and UN.
225 rockets scatter-launched into Sderot in no more than five days last week, aimed in the general direction of schools and residential neighborhoods. From the media, crickets. Until Israel tries, with extraordinary caution, to disrupt the barrage. And THAT's supposed to be a crime against humanity?
I digress. Oh well...
"They have no need for jews nor do they want their help in anything."
Posted by: thesaracen
...except their expertise in medical care (The sick and injured Palistinian prefer to go to Israel medical facilities ... in which the Jews provide medicine and treatment of injuries)
...except for the water and electricity provided by the Jews....generally at sub standard rates ...meaning the Palestinians get their utilities at a rate less than market value)
...except for the money the Jews have been giving the Palintinian government.
...except for the thousands of Palistinian prisoners that Israel has recently released
...except for the weapons shipments provided to the Palistinian government recently (supposedly to help fight terrorists)....The Palestinians are still laughing at this one....
....except for the satellite towers that service the cell phones in the areas....
...It is the Palestinians who want to dominate and own the land of Israel, It is the Palestinians who want the deny the rights of the Israelies to live....If you check the history, you will find that the Palestinians have been offered their own land and peace agreements many times....and they have refused ...every time....
....Even the Arabs do not want the Palestinians...in fact...many of the Palestinians were booted out from Arab countries because they were so violent.....It is the Palestinians who have consistently shown that it is they who want to kill, (specifically ...kill Jews)....
you say: "No, but to stop these attacks which have taken no lives..."
but that is a lie...the Palestinian rockets have taken lives:
SAFED, Israel, July 14 — Rockets rained down on northern Israel for a third straight day today, killing a grandmother and her 5-year-old grandson, (Rockets fired by Hamas)
on November 15, 2006..The 57-year-old woman who died in the rocket strike was taken to Barzilai hospital in Ashkelon, where she succumbed to her wounds, medical officials said. (Rockets fired by Hamas)
Palestinian rockets fired from Gaza have killed two people in a town in southern Israel
on June 28, 2004..
(rockets fired by Hamas)
An attack on November 19, resulted in the death of Yaakov Yaakobov 43, two days later.(rockets fired by Hamas)
Nobody remembers the names of the victims of the Qassam rockets. Remember at least these six: Dorit (Masarat) Benisian, 3 (also listed as Dorit Insu in some places), Afik Zahavi, 4, Mordechai Yosepov, 49, Yuval Ababeh, 5 , and Ayala-Haya (Ella) Abukasis, 17 of Sderot, and Dana Galkowicz, 24 of Kibbutz Bror Hayil (killed in N'tvi Ha'asarah). None of these people are soldiers. None of them had anything to do with "occupation." Sderot and N'tiv Haasarah are not strategic targets
They were civilians, mostly children, minding their own business - all victims of terrorist collective punishment, yet no human rights group protested.
Palestinian terrorists have launched about a thousand homemade Qassam (or Kassam) rockets at Sderot and other towns and Kibbutzim around Gaza since 2001. The rockets keep getting larger and more lethal. The current version has a range of 10 km and carries a payload of 10 KG of explosives..
...for you to indicate the rockets are harmless and kill no one is just another Muslim Lie....
...another pathetic Muslim Lie.....
you say ..."They have no need for jews..." ....that sounds a lot like the hate speech that many Muslim leaders say when they are promising to "kill all jews"....
...all the "brave" Palestinians want to do is kill Jews...it is ok for you to say it openly...we know it is what you want to say...You are a Muslim...
Ban Muslim Immigration...
Here is one picture that the media arent showing
Just scroll down a little
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2008/01/australia-7886480-5974732-austria.html
I love what passes for Street Decorations 0n Palestine. Smells like Roses I bet.
The Landlord always finds out too late they have a dead beat tenant. Nothing speaks more of the nature of a people than the level of Garbage they are willing to live around.
Yeah you definitely are living in dreamland.
Wow! Eureka! Then it is, indeed, an Arab problem why the "Palestinians" are living like animals.And yes the arabs around them are just as guilty. They watch and sit back and do nothing as the poor Palestinians suffer. Western Journalists and charities do more than the arab countries. They sit back and let tyranny unfold. No need for violence, help them and save them from a life of torment IN THEIR OWN LANDS.
It's an absolute myth to suggest the Isreali's treat the Palestinians as anything other than animals.It doesn't matter whether they are militants or not they are all treated the same way. How would you like having a gun pointed at you. Or having to produce ID to go work in your own country. Or being segregated from the rest of the people. You don't pay attention to these things because they are never reported in you're media. When the Palestinians do something like a rocket attack, its headline news: Terrorists, fair enough.
When the Isreali's respond in a fashion thats a million times worse: they say 'Isreal is defending itself'.
And boneshack i've answered what that clown asked me what have you got to say about what I wrote?? Most likely nothing other than posing the same questions that were already posed. There's no way you can dispute what the Quran says is not possible.
Saracen,
Fine. We can agree on certain points. But let me bring two of your statements together, with one very minor correction, and let you answer:
"It's an absolute myth to suggest the Isreali's treat the Palestinians as anything other than as equals. You don't pay attention to these things because they are never reported in you're media."
Your arguments (on the veracity of Koran) are with exsgtbrown, not me.
I am sure, if I can safely assume, that you've read all 178 posts on the 26 Jan thread regarding Steve Coughlin?
boneshack weren't you the one who was calling for me to post my counter-argument against exgstbrown? And when I finally do you have nothing to say?
I never said they were treated as equals, animals was the word I used. If only you were to see the horror and how desperate the situation really is for the palestinians.
You would think it was not possible for humans to treat fellow humans in such a way. Don't bring up terrorism or jihad or 9/11 that has nothing to do with it. I would go as far as to say genocide and ethnic cleansing since it is way more than tyranny and oppression.
Open you're eyes to it since you're world is sanitised, then make judgements.
The Saracen,
Dude, my friend, when you talking about the "Palestinians", are you referring those in Gaza or those in the West Bank? Or both. Please learn to focus your accusations.
To answer your last past:
No, quite frankly, I don't.
No, Sir, I used the word "animals", not you. Bitch and scream all you want, but the news in the past 4-5 days (or more) indicate that Gazans are freely crossing the Rafah border, meeting/greeting relatives, and buying up everything in sight.
Sorry, that's not desperation. That's commerce.
Genocide? Ethnic cleansing? STOP! STOP! STOP!
Sorry, but I know you will dispute me on this. My view of the world is not jaded by the blinders of Islam. I can read, I can analyze, I can rationalize.
What say you?
I know that a number of posters here have interpreted the destruction of the Egyptian/Gaza border wall as a potentially good thing, both showing the world the violent nature of the Palestinians and perhaps clearing the way for a handover of Gaza to Egypt.
From what I have read about attitudes in the last few days, though, I have come to rather more sobering conclusions.
Hamas is crowing over their having destroyed much of the border wall, considering it a victory for the Palestinians over Israel (this despite the fact that they demolished the *Egyptian* border). They have battled the Egyptian border patrol to a standstill, and Egypt has largely backed down (at least for now)--another Hamas victory.
Apparently Hamas is now more popular in Gaza than ever. They are arguing that when order is finally restored, that they, and not Israel, Egypt, or their rival Fatah will be in control of the border crossings. This may well be hyperbole, but I do think it is likely that they will have more control over the border, even if it is not the sole control they seek.
Ismail Haniya, Hamas' "Prime Minister", has threatened a similar action against Israel, with a vision of Gazans pouring into Israel itself, something that, he claims, Gazans would be happy to die for.
At this point, no one is standing up to Hamas. This does not bode well for any future security for Israel.