Get a new lawyer, Da Costa!
"Our Christian monks were engaged in Jihad when they fasted or wore hair shirts." Which means that this fellow who was training to murder people is a sweetheart. Got it?
"Terror accused wanted to live like monk, court hears," from the Wimbledon Guardian (thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist):
A former bus driver accused of training would-be terrorists wanted to live like a monk, a court heard today.Kibley Da Costa, 24 of Bentons Lane, West Norwood, is accused of helping self-styled "Osama Bin London" Mohammed Hamid prepare Muslim men for Jihad at terrorist training camps.
But Da Costa's supposed extremism was likened to the beliefs of Christian monks by his barrister Paul Keleher at Woolwich Crown Court.
Mr Keleher told jurors observant Muslims have the same values that monks and nuns espouse - finding God through physical struggle and hardship.
The Crown's case against his client is based on a misunderstanding of the Islamic concept of Jihad or struggle and a misunderstanding of Muslim values, he added.
"If nothing in your life has equipped you to understand the experiences of people from other religions or other faiths you are liable like the prosecution to jump to the wrong conclusion," he said.
"Our Christian monks were engaged in Jihad when they fasted or wore hair shirts.
"They weren't suicide bombers. They weren't extremists. It was just part of their religion, and if we understand a bit more about our religious heritage Islam does not seem so alien."
He added "the awareness of death in everyday life" was also an Islamic value, and when the defendants are recorded talking about death they are not encouraging each other to "seek violent death".
They most certainly were.
Therefore, blowing people up is equivalent to fasting.
Let's see if I have all this straight.
You have to read Arabic to understand Islamic Law.
You have be stoned on Pot to really understand "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band".
You have to be a Muslim and have your brain located where your heart should be to read and understand the Koran.
You have to do LSD to read the "Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe".
I think I'm getting it.
When you tell lies so much even the really goofy stuff starts to sound normal.
Oh, it's late I need to go to my Christian Zealot class.!
Where did I put that white rabbit?
Could blow up in the lawyers face, the UK public do seem to have an awful lot of sympathy for jihadists...but I don't know how highly they think of christian monks these days.
"Our Christian monks were engaged in Jihad when they fasted or wore hair shirts".
What is a hair shirt; and does it need to be washed in Head 'N Shoulders?
If Judge Judy were the judge here, she'd say: "Baloney! You're lying! Do you expect me to believe this nonsense?" Then she'd render her judgement, and it wouldn't be pretty.
It's a long American tradition, going back to Judge Bean.
Awww...that's so special. And luckily for him prison is such a great environment for those wishing to lead a monastic life. No women (unless they happen to be guards searching your rectal cavity). Plenty of time for contemplation, the opportunity to turn the other cheek, or perhaps both of them, every day. Spartan food, simple work. He should really love it there. Why are they even bothering to mount a defense? Plead guilty and let the years of monastic contemplation begin. Hahaha...Christian monk indeed. The Muslim seems to believe westerners gullibility is boundless.
Sometimes following this stuff from day to day seems like standing under a waterfall of crap.
The "golden rule" is not appart of islam. Mohammad broke most of the 10 commandments. Jihad is not about inner strugle, Islam is about outward domination. Islamic payer is public not private. Jesus in fact mocked those who only prayed in public. Apperance is everything in Islam, hence the clothing restrictions and the public call to prayer.
Islam is public and has no monastic tradition, except ummone afew heretical sects.
You see, dear people, death is a natural part of life and Muslims are religious people. And just like all religious people, they follow their own holy scriptures. So the next time a pious Muslim practices his religious obligations by murdering a non-believer in a horrific way, please open your heart and mind and try to understand that they may have different values and practices than your own and only a racist or a bigot would show intolerance towards other cultures.
Champ,
From my understanding, a hair shirt is just that - ever have a haircut and then the back of your neck itches for the rest of the day from all the little hair pieces poking you? Well, a hair shirt is that to the extreme. a garment woven of human hair designed to itch you constantly.
No one said the saints were all right in the head.
So, let me get this strait - a Christian goes off the deep end and they end up as either a monk, or someone like Mother Theresa, administering to the poorest of the poor. A Muslim goes off the deep end and we have airplanes flying into buildings - yea, I can see how one can confuse the two. I guess if one is sitting in the jury box and busted out laughing at such an idiotic statememt would get one thrown off the jury? Bummer.
This must be what it's like when you lose your mind.
Thanks RecycledCG! :-)
I cut hair, so I know how annoying those little hairs can be when cutting someone else's hair; as they creep beneath your clothes even with an apron on - so I couldn't even imagine wearing a shirt made of hair. Makes me itch just thinking about it!
I was afraid this defense would happen. I'm sure it already has many times. How does, lets say a Palestian, know it is wrong to blow people up if that is all they have been taught since birth. Every Muslim looking for Jihad against the west could easily use this as a defense and win. It's called brainwashing, the jihadist becomes a victim, his/her actions expected because of the culture he/she was raised in.
Haven't seen any monks involved in beheadings lately.....or cutting off of hands and feet.....or murdering innocent children....or blowing themselves up....need I go on?
Actually it would seem the lawyer is singing from the Islamic hymnbook.
Mohammed rejected Christian monasticism/asceticism in the form of disengagement from the world and said that jihad was the muslims' asceticism, which, of course, is where the greater jihad comes in.
http://darulislam.info/Sections-article83-p1.html
" Jihad is the highest peak of Islam.
"The highest peak of it is Jihad," we find in authentic hadith reported on the authority of Mu`adh.
Jihad is also the asceticism of this Ummah: "And you should perform Jihad, for it is the asceticism of this Ummah." "
The greater jihad:
In the Islamic tradition a distinction is made between two holy wars, the "greater holy war" (el-jihadul-akbar) and the "lesser holy war" (el-jihadul-ashgar). This distinction originated from a saying (hadith) of the Prophet, who on the way back from a military expedition said: "You have returned from a lesser holy war to a great holy war." The greater holy war is of an inner and spiritual nature; the other is the material war waged externally against an enemy population with the particular intent of bringing "infidel" populations under the rule of "God's Law" (al-Islam). The relationship between the "greater" and "lesser holy war", however, mirrors the relationship between the soul and the body; in order to understand the heroic asceticism or "path of action", it is necessary to understand the situation in which the two paths merge, the "lesser holy war" becoming the means through which a "greater holy war" is carried out, and vice versa: the "little holy war", or the external one, becomes almost a ritual action that expresses and gives witness to the reality of the first. Originally, orthodox Islam conceived of a unitary form of asceticism: that which is connected to the jihad or "holy war".
The "greater holy war" is man's struggle against the enemies he carries within. More exactly, it is the struggle of man's higher principle against everything that is merely human in him, against his inferior natur and against chaotic impulses and all sorts of material attachments. This is expressly outlined in a text of Aryan warrior wisdom: "Know Him therefore who is above reason; and let his peace give thee peace. Be a warrior and kill desire, the powerful enemy of the soul." (Bhagavadgita 3.43)
The "enemy" who resists us and the "infidel" within ourselves must be subdued and put in chains. This enemy is the animalistic yearning and instinct, the disorganized multiplicity of impulses, the limitations imposed on us by a fictitious self, and thus also fear, wickedness, and uncertainty; this subduing of the enemy within is the only way to achieve inner liberation or the rebirth in a state of deeper inner unity and "peace" in the esoteric and triumphal sense of the word.
In the world of traditional warrior asceticism the "lesser holy war", namely, the external war, is indicated and even prescribed as the means to wage this "greater holy war"; thus in Islam the expressions "holy war" (jihad) and "Allah's way" are often used interchangeably. In this order of ideas action exercises the rigorous function and task of a sacrifical and purifying ritual. The external vicissitudes experienced during a military campaign cause the inner "enemy" to emerge and put up a fierce resistance and agood fight in the form of the animalistic instincts of self-preservation, fear, inertia, compassion, or other passions; those who engage in battles must overcome these feelings by the time they enter the battlefield if they wish to win and to defeat the outer enemy or "infidel".
Obviously the spiritual orientation and the "right intention" (niya), that is, the one toward transcendence (the symbols employed to refer to transcendence are "heaven", "paradise", "Allah's garden" and so on), are supposed as the foundations of jihad, lest war lose its scared character and degenerate into a wild affair in which true heroism is replaced with reckless abandonment and what counts are the unleashed impulses of the animal nature.
It is written in the Koran: "Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter fight for the cause of Allah; whether they die or conquer, We shall richly reward them." (Koran, 4:76) The presupposition according to which it is prescribed "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly" (Koran 47:4); or, "Do not falter or sue for peace when you have gained the upper hand" (Koran 47:37), is that "the life of this world is but a sport and a past-time" (Koran 47:37) and that "whoever is ungenerous to this cause is ungenerous to himself" (Koran 47:38). These statements should be interpreted along the lines of the evangelical saying: "Whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it: but whoever loses his life for my sake shall find it" (Matthew 16:25). This is confirmed by yet another Koranic passage: "Why is it that when it is said to you: 'March in the cause of Allah.' you linger slothfully in the land? Are you content with this life in preference to the life to come?" (Koran, 9:38) "Say: 'Are you waiting for anything to befall us except victory or martyrdom?'" (Koran, 9:52).
Another passage is relevant as well: "Fighting is obligatory for you, as much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not." (Koran, 2:216). This passage should also be connected with the following one:
"They were content to be with those that stayed behind: a seal was set upon their hearts, leaving them bereft of understanding. But the Apostle and the men who shared his faith fought with their goods and their persons. These shall be rewarded with good things. They shall surely prosper. Allah has prepared them gardens watered by running streams, in which they shall abide forever. That is the supreme triumph." (Koran, 9:88 - 9:89)
This place of "rest" (paradise) symbolizes the superindividual states of being, the realization of which is not confined to the post-mortem alone,as the following passage indicates: "As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works to perish. he will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will admit them to the paradise He has made known to them." Koran (47:5-7). In the instance of real death in battle, we find the equivalent of the mors triumphalis found in classical traditions. Those who have experienced the "greater holy war" during the "lesser holy war", have awakened a power that most likely will help them overcome the crisis of death; this power, having already liberated them from the "enemy" and from the "infidel", will help them avoid the fate of Hades. This is why in classical antiquity the hope of the deceased and the piety of his relatives often caused figures of heroes and of victors to be inscribed on the tombstones. It is possible, however, to go through death and conquer, as well as achieve, the superlife and to ascend to the "heavenly realm" while still alive.
http://www.geocities.com/integral_tradition/jihad.html
"The Crown's case against his client is based on a misunderstanding of the Islamic concept of Jihad or struggle and a misunderstanding of Muslim values, he added."
Stephen Coughlin's masterful analysis of Islamic Law and Jihad ("To Our Great Detriment")
cuts through the obfuscation about what Islam means by "jihad". He establishes that the legal definition is the controlling one, as Islamic Law comes from none other than Allah, who alone is sovereign, and the scholarly consensus which fixes it in sacred law. The legal definiton of Jihad is "warfare against non-Muslims to establish
the religion" --'Umdat al-Salik.
Jihad is hukm shari (a Right of Allah), a communication from Allah creating an obligation on man. It cannot be overruled by man. Nor could "ijtihad" apply to Jihad even if those "gates" were reopened, because as hukm shari it is beyond the scope of man's reasoning. "Because Islamic Law comes from Allah who alone is sovereign, the legal definition is the controlling one." Furthermore, the emphasis on Surah Nine in the legal discourse on Jihad of all schools affirms its pre-eminence as well as confirming abrogation. This line of argument might serve prosecutors well in court cases like these, in pinning oft-slippery Muslims to actual primary definitions.
"Mr Keleher told jurors observant Muslims have the same values that monks and nuns espouse. . . ."
Monks and nuns also espouse (and practice) chastity. So where are all the little Moslems coming from? Must be a lot of Moslems who aren't very observant.
leeve,
You might be interested in this article, posted on islam-watch.org :
Leaving Islam: When truth comes in, Mullahs jump out the window
The author, a child of the Revolution, talks of growing up in Iran and how the normally friendly mullahs, when challenged, would get all angry and say that questions can only be asked in order to increase your conviction. Teachers talked about how it was okay to kill Jews. The author's final exhortation: Tell the true story of Islam, save civilization!
Just so that everyone can see how patently ridiculous is Mr Keleher's attempt to equate a murderous bloodthirsty nestful of Jihad trainees, with a Christian monastery, here is a 'Dark Age' poem by one of St Patrick's converts, from Ireland:
By the Irish hermit St Manchan of Offaly, converted by St Patrick.
From “How the Irish Saved [Western Latin] Civilisation”, by Tom Cahill.
pp. 152-55.
"Grant me, sweet Christ the grace to find –
Son of the Living God –
A small hut in a lonesome spot
To make it my abode.
A little pool, but very clear
To stand beside the place
Where all men’s sins are washed away
By sanctifying grace.
A pleasant woodland all about
To shield it from the wind
And make a home for singing birds
Before it and behind.
A southern aspect for the heat,
A stream along its foot
A smooth green lawn with rich top soil
Propitious to all fruit.
My choice of men to live with me
And pray to God as well.
Quiet men of humble mind
Their number I shall tell.
Four files of three or three of four
To give the psalter forth
Six to pray by the south church wall
And six along the north.
Two by two my dozen friends –
To tell the number right –
Praying with me to move the King
Who gives the sun its light.
A lovely church, a home for God
Bedecked with linen fine
Where over the white Gospel page
The Gospel candles shine.
A little house where all may dwell
And body’s care be sought
Where none shows lust or arrogance
None thinks an evil thought.
And all I ask for housekeeping
I get and pay no fees ,
Leeks from the garden, poultry, game
Salmon and trout and bees.
My share of clothing and of food
From the King of fairest face,
And I to sit at times alone
And pray in every place."
Singing, praying, and cultivating the earth. That's all.
As for hair shirts - Sir Thomas More wore one of those. He didn't kill anyone. He did get killed - for standing up to his King over a point of moral principle. "I die the King's good servant, but God's first". Note that he thought the King was morally, theologically wrong; but he did not attempt to assassinate the King, he tried to persuade him.
Perhaps someone should suggest to Mr Keleher that he compare, for example, the text of the Beatitudes, or the Life of St Benedict, and the Rule of St Benedict ('ora et labora', work and pray), or the action of Poulenc's opera "Dialogues of the Carmelites", with the following text from the Quran, Surah 9 verse 111:
"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in his cause AND SLAY AND ARE SLAIN".
These days the Jihadis 'find god' through...suicide and mass murder combined. Wow. What a spiritual experience. How INTENSE.
Has anyone told Mr Keleher about the Assassins? Would he like to try to argue that the Assassins' lair was no different from a Benedictine or Carmelite monastery, from Taize or an Amish settlement (or a yeshiva, or a Buddhist monastery?].
Or perhaps Mr Keleher should be asked to listen to the testimony of those Algerian apostates from Islam who declare, "Christianity is life. Islam is death", or the following little story from Christianity Today, January 2007:
"'Dis' was from an Arab family, taught from an early age to hate Christians and Americans. "But when I learned about Jesus in the Qur'an," he explained, "I liked Him. I thought, If God gave me a choice, I would follow Jesus [NB: not Mohammed?]. *He is not a man of war* [my emphasis added]." The attraction grew as he listened to Christian radio. Then, one night, Dis had a vision of a heavenly being who informed him that Jesus was Lord. At that moment, his heart was transformed. Now he is full of love, not hate; dedicated to bringing reconciliation between Arabs and Kabyles."
Hear that, Mr Keleher ?- a Muslim perceived Jesus (even through the hopelessly distorted Quranic account) as 'NOT A MAN OF WAR'. Unstated, is the further phrase, 'as Mohammed *was* '.
Therefore: imitating Jesus (with whatever degree of emotional intensity) is not the same thing as imitating Mohammed.
As I read Mr Keleher's bizarre attempts at moral equivalence in order to defend the indefensible, the words of Dante acquire a terrible resonance:
Noi siam venuti al loco ov'io t'ho detto
che tu vedrai le genti dolorose
c'hanno perduto il ben del'intelletto. (Inferno, III: 16-18).
"We've reached the place I told thee to expect,
where thou shouldst see the miserable race,
those who have lost the good of intellect" (D L Sayers translation).
Great quote, dumbledore's army!
Unfortunately, too true :(. Emotion rules all, these days.
ebonystone
Muslim men maintain their chastity by having up to 4 wives at a time:
"those of you who own the means should marry for this should keep their eyes uncraving and their chastity secure. Those who don't, may practise fasting for it curbs desire. " (Ibn Massoud)
A different understanding of chastity to ours I think.
We should compile a dictionary for these islamic terms that we assume to mean what we think they mean but don't, eg. peace, oppression etc and now chastity.
"He added "the awareness of death in everyday life" was also an Islamic value, and when the defendants are recorded talking about death they are not encouraging each other to "seek violent death".
They most certainly were."
...I agree...death is an Islamic value...especially if you can kill a Christian or non Muslim....Muslims praise other Muslim killers who kill and are themselves killed....Muslims are particularily proud of a single Muslim who can take out 46-60 people with a single suicide vest....Muslims are even proud to kill those within their group if a perceived non Islamic act occurs such as dating a non Muslim, not wearing the veil, listening to music, not praying hard enough, having Christian or Jewish friends, thinking about converting to a non Muslim religion, finding out your pre arranged bride really does not like you...yep....Muslims love death and will deal it out for just about any reason under the sun....
...it is imperative...Ban Muslim Immigration...Muslim Immigration is pointless and is harmful to the host country....
Gee, there are those "misunderstanders of Islam and Jihad" again...