How 'bout that logic, eh, Robert D. Crane? Anyway, let's hope that poor kafir Ronald McDonald fares a little better this time.
"Anti-Islam Dutch Film: Authorities asked to be alert for potential riots," from the (Pakistan) Daily Times:
ISLAMABAD: The Interior Ministry has directed provincial home secretaries, police chiefs and the authorities concerned in Islamabad, Azad Kashmir and the Northern Areas to remain alert to cope with any law and order situation that may erupt with the possible release of an “anti-Islam” Dutch movie. The National Crisis Management Cell has informed the abovementioned authorities in a letter that an “anti-Islam” film by Greet [sic] Wilders, a jurist in the Netherlands, is expected to release, which may result in public aggression against foreigners and the installations of multinational companies and diplomatic offices in Pakistan. Wilders, the chief of Holland Freedom Party, is also a Holland parliament member. Dutch Prime Minster Jan Peter and other leaders are urging him against the release of the movie. Wilders warns that he will upload the film on the Internet, if he is not allowed to release it.
Better to have this test now, then in five years, or ten. Can Islam be rationally discussed, and rationally criticised, at least in the western world (it is out of the question in the closed universe of Dar al-Islam, where mental submission is enforced on pain of death), or is it no longer possible?
If the movie is sensible, if it sticks to the passages of the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, and how they are received, and does not offer any assertion without a great deal of evidence to back it up, then it will have to be shown, and disseminated widely if only so that what it in fact is can be compared to what hysterical Muslims claim it is, and will do everything they can, to prevent everyone -- Muslim and Infidel -- from seeing.
This guy who made this film is following on Van Gogh's footsteps in making an anti-islamic propaganda film: will he follow his fate, too?
A fact totally ignored by the media all the people who attacked islam in Netherlands are not DUTCH, but jews living in Netherlands.
Why dont just say straight out instead of hiding behind labels.
This is important because the last the time of the cartoons, a whole dutch embassy was burned in Tehran and goods from that country were boycotted by many muslims. This is not fair to the Dutch ,is it?
The dutch are honest, hard working white people, but the some people of jewish origin are obviously corrupting matters there.
But what actually drives people who attack islam so unfairly: it is the publicity they seek? why do they hate islam so much? these are questions i ask myself every day.
People can live so much peacefully without these provocative films in the name of freedom of speech.
But what freedom of peech exists in Europe when no one can talk about matters such as the death of the jewish people in the second world war? This is merely mischief hiding behind slogans.
I can obviously see what will happens after the release of this film: riots and poisoning of relations between europe and islam. I guess this is what the makers of the films are actually seeking.
They know very well these consequences but of course when it actually happens, they will raise thheir eye brows in innocence and claim they DID NOT HAVE ANY IDEA there film will provoke anyone, and move to offer "sincere" apologies.
Islam can never be rationally discussed. Even people who I thought were moderates surprise me at times with their fanatical outlook and reasoning. Makes me wonder why they even came to the West if they hate it so much here.
I am glad Wilders made this film, I wish him all the best and he is a brave chap to stand up for the truth.
If someone criticised any other religion, you may get a few protests, maybe an angry letter or not even a wimper. However, tell the truth about Islam and all hell breaks loose because they are embarassed that they follow such a savage philosophy.
Oh yes, recently a colleague of mine (who is muslim) claimed Abraham, Moses and the whole lot were Muslim including Jesus. I was shocked, of course I replied and it turned into a vicious exchange, but I was shocked at the blatant distortion of the truth.
-Ayo Gorkhali
"Oh yes, recently a colleague of mine (who is muslim) claimed Abraham, Moses and the whole lot were Muslim including Jesus. I was shocked, of course I replied and it turned into a vicious exchange, but I was shocked at the blatant distortion of the truth.
-Ayo Gorkhali
Posted by: Gorkhali"
Indeed, it is correct. Muslim in Arabic means "believer. But Islam has appropriated it since 623 to apply only to Mohammedan Muslims. Listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PhbG5jY5h4
"Dutch Prime Minster Jan Peter and other leaders are urging him against the release of the movie. Wilders warns that he will upload the film on the Internet, if he is not allowed to release it."
It's good to know that we have Westertn leaders ready to stand up for the ideals and principles of Western civilization and culture.
Must take a lot of courage for Prime Minster Jan Peter to urge Wilders not to air his film because it might trigger a violent reaction from Muslims in the Netherlands.
It doesn't seem to have occured to Peter that the most basic rights of his citizens are under assult, and that is his duty to defend them, not to aid in destroying them.
The Muslim poster at 1:05 a.m. above who posts as "Goldberg" --his email address is allynoorj@yahoo.com -- and you can look around to find his other obvious postings, will have to find another alias because that one has just been banned.
Quite a few Muslims come to JW to gum up the works. The tactics are often the same: the crudest, most obvious and bloodcurdling sentiments expressed toward Muslims, all designed to make this site look bad, and no doubt to build some kind of phony "record" that can subsequently be denounced.
They keep varying their aliases, and it is sometimes fun to watch. Others simply try to distract, to capture a thread, and then run down the field with the conversational pigskin (yes, I know, because of that pigskin the metaphor is not verisimilar) as other posters take the bait and run after them.
Better to sail implacably on, when the gaggle of "goldbergs" -- that is, allynoorjes -- show up to see what damage they can do. And if that chosen sailing vessel is a ship of the desert, the camel, then we can give that metaphor a little twist, and note that since we are now no longer on a real ship, but in a caravan of camels, we can use, at the end of this sentence, and this paragraph, and this posting, the old saying that doesn't lose its bite: The dogs bark, the caravan moves on.
Wilders did well in making this film. He and others should do more such clips, so that other Western embassies in dar-ul-Islam are targeted as well (why do they exist in the first place?) If all diplomatic relations between dar-ul-Islam and Dhimmi foreign offices worldwide (US State Department, UK Foreign Office, et al) can be terminated just by well-informed Infidels producing Youtube clips, it would do wonders.
Gorkhali, that's nothing to be shocked at - it's standard fare for them. That reminds me of my 7th grade classmate who told me that Neil Armstrong converted to Islam after seeing 'Allah' written on the moon ;-)
Hugh, thanks for banning Goldberg - I'd rather that Mohammedans kept to Mohammedan aliases.
Gorkhali said
Of course they are Muslim, everyone is born Muslim, it is only through corruption and ignorance that we are led away from The One True Religion That Must Destroy All Others. Jesus is a minor prophet who misunderstood Allah's perfect message of "kill the infidels wherever you find them" as "turn the other cheek" and "those of you without sin cast the first stone". Allah was spreading a message of hatred and violence, which Jesus mistook for a message of love and tolerance. But not to worry, Jesus will be back on Judgement Day to slay the Christians and send them to Hell for being infidels.
These are all mainstream Islamic beliefs, what's the big deal? There is no need to get upset at their bizarro world, where up is down and left is right and right is wrong. Don't get upset, especially in the workplace. Learn, and become actively involved, but don't get upset.
Hugh said
Why is that? Why don't Muslims come to JW to say that, yes, these "twisted extremists" have gotten Islam all wrong, let's work together to root out the dangerous "few extremists" amongst us? After all, most victims of Islamic violence are themselves Muslims.
Why don't they come for an honest discussion about the intolerant elements of Islam that are so troubling to non-Muslims, and how those elements can be countered theologically? Why don't they provide context that allows infidels to properly understand the peacefulness of Surah 9:5 and all the others?
Why do they instead come to JW to gum up the works?
But these are all rhetorical questions. I think we all know the answer.
"Islam can never be rationally discussed."
Posted by Gorkhali.
What else can one expect the product of an illiterate personality to be ?
Which is why criticism was taboo right from the days of the so called prophet. Which is why he suppressed critical thinking with assassinations.
Which is why the religion he founded, he called "Submission".
Which is why islam has not bred intellectuals (even in its so called golden age), but has spawned only rogues.
And the only language the rogue can understand is FORCE.
I am happy that such applications of force has happened in India in Ayodhya and Gujarat incidents.
I am only saddened by the slowing down of the pace in recent years.
The so called "moderates" are fanatics in mind, but without the rawness, brutality and dashing courage which their extremist counterparts have. So they restrict themselves to arguments , disagreements, and all the Takiya techniques.
All this can be tackled only with making freedom of opinion and enquiry an absolutely fundamental and non-negotiable right.
Long live broad-mindedness, freedom and the quest for truth, the bedrocks of Hinduism !
"Long live broad-mindedness, freedom and the quest for truth, the bedrocks of Hinduism !"
.. and of all decent people. :-)
Perhaps Wilders doesn't fully appreciate that Islamo-zombies are incapable of critical analysis of their creed. They are subliminally programmed to violently attack any perceived criticism of their beloved pedophile warlord. And since they are utterly devoid of rational thought and self control, they cannot be held responsible for any carnage resulting from their actions. Geert Wilders (and of course, the Jews) will ultimately be blamed for any resulting violence.
Hugh, thank-you for banning that Goldberg troll. A victory for the JW/DW site.
Where is the European spirit?
"I disagree with what you have to say but will fight to the death to protect your right to say it." attributed to Voltaire
I hope someone is working on islam 2, islam 3,
islam 4 and islam, the movie!
Herr Wilders, dat is hut.
"I can obviously see what will happens after the release of this film: riots and poisoning of relations between europe and islam. I guess this is what the makers of the films are actually seeking.
Posted by: Goldberg"
no....it is what the Muslims are seeking....
Geert Wilders (and of course, the Jews) will ultimately be blamed for any resulting violence.
by Xero G
The MSM will be the loudest voices blaming Wilders. They would rather blame one man than an entire community. It's an easier story to write. It's also a way to placate the Muslim community. Gordon Brown, George Bush, are you listening?
Well maybe not Bush. His time is running out. Let's see what Clinton, Obama, McCain, etc. have to say about the threat of Muslim violence in the event of this film's release. Is Pakistan a desirable ally in the war on terrorism when its people are clearly of one mind with al Qaeda?
People at JW are earnest in combating Jihad foes, but we are such a small unpolular bunch. There are many like me, who put up with the Islamic oppression, has long felt powerless in waking the majority of America. It might sound like an insult,but please see why Pentagon does not agree with you.
Here is the report of unhappy American field commander:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/01/stirring_the_hate_1.asp
I meant that I had put up with Islamic oppression, but not that I put up with it.
Assalamau Laikum all,
This is a difficult topic...because I am a supporter of free-speech/free media....but there are real dangers to corrupting the pure nature of Islam.
Know that when you wake up in the morning and want to go to the toilet....Islamically you MUST enter (as I do) the toilet facilities with your right foot 1st. When you leave ...you leave through the left foor 1st...and indeed there are many other rules....peoples, there ia a REAL danger of misrepresenting these rules and corrupting Islam....no wonder us muslims do not want this...films in no way can capture the essence required...permit me your time to expand on this.
The verses of the Koran recorded during Muhd's SAW years in Mecca presented, in greater part, the metaphysical and ethical aspects of his non-violent and reformatory philosophy. In the verses composed during his ten years in Medina, a greater emphasis on the temporal appears.
No doubt, by this time it had become clear to Muhd SAW by the grace of Allah SWT that Islam required the organizing of a community with its own laws and government. Muhd SAW thus aimed at a threefold reform of his people:
(1) Civil—through the establishment of reasonable laws that would appeal to the conscience of man;
(2) Military—through the uniting of the tribes and the abolishing of fratricidal wars; and
(3) Religious—by offering a degraded and superstitious people the noble concept of Unity—One Source, One Force, that pervades all nature.
These three were (and still are) closely interlinked in his system. In translations of the Koran, the English word "God" is widely used in the place of various words used by Mohammed to indicate the Most High.
NOTE: These words detailed in moral terms the "excellence" of that which still is beyond the range of thought or description.
In many places Muhd SAW made God and Law synonymous. Law was declared to be everywhere, but the understanding of Law and realization of God were only to be attempted by the man of morality, at peace with his brothers.
As you know, according to Muhd (SAW), men were originally of one religion, which he named Islam—peace. When differences arose among them, prophets were born in their midst to guide them back to truth....like Moses (pbuh)& Jesus PBUh.
Mankind is one community and Allah SWT sent (unto them) Prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners....And Allah SWT "guided those who believed unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path". (Sura II, 209)
In the spirit of true tolerance, Muhd SAW pointed to the Teachers who had come before him, and to the gradual deterioration of their teachings, due to misinterpretation and falsification of them by their disciples. For illustrations he draws mainly upon Jewish and Persian sources, best known to the Arabs.
Unfortunately it looks like misinterpretation and falsification could be via dutch sources too....and I question the need for this on this basis!
Folks, please note, when you read a Muslim's posting, they always put an SWT trailing the word Allah. This in itself is a drumbeat and a war cry again the non-Muslim.
Assalamau Laikum all,
ssa foolishly says "when you read a Muslim's posting, they always put an SWT trailing the word Allah. This in itself is a drumbeat and a war cry again the non-Muslim".
This is utter poppy-cock. I write SWT and SAW even when writing on muslim forums....there is no war cry here...let me clarify the definitions for the polluted kaffur here...
SWT
This is the Acronym for "Subhanahu wa ta'ala" meaning "Allah is pure of having partners and He is exalted from having a son."
It is NOT anything to do with Allah SWT wearing a "sweater & Tie" as some foolish poster had once said.
SAW
Acronym for Arabic "Salla Allahu alaihi Wa Sallam". It means "peace be upon him", used when referring to Muhd(SAW).
ssa ....please make the effort ....thank you!
Dear Naseems,
I must ask, what is this "Muhd SAW" thing? A special type of scimitar to use in chopping off heads?
Sorry, dears (yes - multiple); hard to take you seriously when you begin, as you did, with 'because I am a supporter of free-speech/free media....but there are real dangers to corrupting the pure nature of Islam'.
Either you are, or you aren't, a supporter of "free speech" - including free enquiry.
Naseems,
Why should a polluted kaffur make such an effort?
(I know, I know; please don't feed the trolls.)
proud-hindu
"What else can one expect the product of an illiterate personality to be ?
Which is why criticism was taboo right from the days of the so called prophet. Which is why he suppressed critical thinking with assassinations.
Which is why the religion he founded, he called "Submission".
Which is why islam has not bred intellectuals (even in its so called golden age), but has spawned only rogues."
How true, considering that what passes for what remains from the "Islamic Golden Age" came from most often from non-Muslims. For example the famous "Arabic numbers system" came from India. Often the moques themselves were built in the begining as churches or temples. Any philosphy came from the Greeks-Romans. In other words, Islam had to either borrow or steal from other cultures in order to produce its golden age. Plus another reason why criticism was not tolerated was because the real "truth" about Islam would come out and for that, it had to be supressed.
Maybe if Mohammed (PBUH) had wore a sweater and a tie (like Mr. Rogers) then Islam might have turned out differently...........
Here's what we anti-jihadists need - more movies! Distribute them all over the world! Obviously, the jihadists can't stand movies made in the west about Islam. How about a new release every day?
Possible titles -
"Desperate Multiple Wives"
"Mullah Knows Best"
"Haram or Not? You decide!"
"My Favorite Dhimmi"
"Memorise the Qur'an in Ten Easy Steps"
"Famous Honour Killings"
"Desparately Seeking a Nine Year Old Child Bride"
"Love and Crayons"
proud-hindu
"What else can one expect the product of an illiterate personality to be ?
Which is why criticism was taboo right from the days of the so called prophet. Which is why he suppressed critical thinking with assassinations.
Which is why the religion he founded, he called "Submission".
Which is why islam has not bred intellectuals (even in its so called golden age), but has spawned only rogues."
How true, considering that what passes for what remains from the "Islamic Golden Age" came from most often from non-Muslims. For example the famous "Arabic numbers system" came from India. Often the moques themselves were built in the begining as churches or temples. Any philosphy came from the Greeks-Romans. In other words, Islam had to either borrow or steal from other cultures in order to produce its golden age. Plus another reason why criticism was not tolerated was because the real "truth" about Islam would come out and for that, it had to be supressed.
All the Mohammadans will do is prove Geerts film is accurate. Geert knows very well that he is risking his life, and it didn't just start with this film. The guys had to live in safe houses for years now. He is one of the few that actually understands what is happening to his country, and to western civilization and refused to be intimidated.
The US military are against him airing it because they know too well that the religion of peace will kick into riot mode but that logic only serves Islam.
I'm still ticked off that Hirsi Ally had the nerve to call Geerts film "provocative", as if he didn't have enough people bashing him for doing what is absolutely essential to maintaining our civilization.....getting the truth about Islam out. There is no nice way of reporting what the Qur'an instructs, what the Sira and Hadiths insruct, but it's a fine way of providing more rope for the Mohammadans to hang themselves with.
I can' wait to see the Car-B-Ques .....that'll show the world Islam is a religion of peace.
A link given above to a comment, by someone in an army magazine, is re-produced below:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/01/stirring_the_hate_1.asp
The dismissal by Fred Roggio is warranted. Of course there will be some kind of trouble if, and when, the Wilders film is released. Muslims have been attempting to blackmail the Dutch, and the entire Western world, not to have it released, using that same argument. So what? This will always be the case.
The American military man or civilian who wrote that little comment apparently is not thinking straight about Islam. He is thinking only of the way in which Muslims can be so easily whipped up, and assumes they will be whipped up if the Wilders film is released.
But he is missing several points. One is that Muslims can always be whipped up. They don't need a film or cartoons. They are very good at manufacturing their own reasons for being whipped up. They stage atrocities -- see the Al-Dura case, see all the pictures on Al-Jazeera of American "Nazi-like" behavior in Iraq, with that hideous Arab score playing as the camera pans over what are supposed to be victims of "American aggression" and that could be pictures taken from anywhere, or for that matter made up. It doesn't matter.
The person who said that the Wilders film should not be releated (and could he have been, by the way, a Muslim or someone who listened a bit too credulously and naively to local Muslims in Afghanistan) manages to overlook all the made-up stories about "American soldiers destroying Qur'ans" that have been broadcast in Afghanistan, and that, though denied and obviously false, have led to the usual predictable and hysterical riots and lunacy.
But what that comment points to is the narrowness of vision of American military men. In Iraq, Petraeus and company are so intent in applying those "laws" about "insurgencies" so beloved of those "military intellectuals" -- those Kansas colonels who think it makes sense to come up with such laws as "on average, insurgencies last ten years." [This is as helpful as the statement that "on average civil wars last 4.7 years" or "on average wars last 11.3 years." It ignores the most important things: that there is not one "insurgency" but many different groups competing for power and loot in Iraq, and that while all but one -- Al-Qaeda -- are willing to use the Americans to their own advantage, all of them, but possibly one (the Kurds) cannot conceivably offer the Americans real, unfeigned, and lasting friendship, and even the Kurds, possibly unduly romanticized, have to be our friends because it is only the Americans who have rescued them in the past, or can offer them the necessary diplomatic and other support, to an dependent Kurdish state, in the future.
The American military in Iraq, like that in Afghanistan, sees the task it has been assigned, and is attempting to fulfill that task. It does not see, the generals do not see, the larger picture. They do not calculate the ecoomic cost to the United States, of the effort in Iraq or Afghanistan. They do not ask themselves about the other theatres of war, in the campaign of self-defense against the world-wide Jihad, because most of them do not think in those terms at all. How can they? The very fulfillment of their task, and their day-to-day dealings with the local "good" Muslims, brings them ever further into personal entanglements, a confusion of being impressed with this or that local Arab or Afghani who may indeed appear to offer real friendship, or at least prove helpful, and so beyond that immediate helpfulness, that slogging "side by side" with "our Iraqi allies" or "the brave Afghans," it is easy to forget about such things as exactly what those "Iraqi allies" are doing, what they are doing it for, how much bribing they need to continue doing what they do (for if the American bribes stop, they stop), and whether, from an American perspective, the whole thing really makes sense, or if, beyond the local "victories," the real victory to be achieved is best accomplished by coolly, hard-headedly, recognizing what has been going on in Iraq and Afghanistan is pursuit of an ignis fatuus, a will-'o-the-wisp or feu follet that keeps receding into the distance, the goal of a "stable" and "unified" and (with American taxpayers' largesse, signed over by the tens of billions, by an Administration that has no other thoughts as to how to obtain Muslim cooperation, for it does not understand what deep hostility Islam inculcates toward non-Musliims, and is fearful of finding out, of recognizing this immutable truth and basing a policy on awareness of that truth).
Even if, here and there, at enormous American and, in Afghanistan, other NATO cost, there can be local "victories" over Al Qaeda, or over the Taliban, so what? Their ranks are endlessly replenishable. And the local "allies" are not really "allies" at all. The Anbar Province tribes, should they succeed in remainning bribed, still have no intention of doing America's bidding, and still, as Sunnis, have no intention of acquiescing in the main conseuence of the toppling of Saddam Hussein: the transfer of power, now and likely forever, from the Sunnis to the Shi'a of Iraq.
What the American generals must do if they are to avoid confirming that "war is too important to be left to the generals" is to begin to see what used to be called the Big Picture. Petraeus, in Iraq, should be thinking about the malevolent Saudis, and the Money Weapon that pays for mosques and madrasas deep inside the West. The generals in Afghanistan should be thinking about the attempt of Geert Wilders to instruct, and rouse, people in the Netherlands by dint of a mere ten-minute film, instead of worrying about the "effect" on the local Muslims and its relation to them, the NATO troops. If the local Muslims can be so whipped up, and so easily turn on the American and other NATO troops, it is that fact that is telling, and should be understood by the Western military as one more reason why, instead of the squandering of men, money, and materiel -- in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in meretriciious and hopeless Pakistan -- Western money should be saved, Western soldiers should be spared, and war materiel reserved not for "nation-building" efforts but for war-making, and emphasis now placed on what should always have been seen, about a trilliion dollars ago, as the most intelligent strategy: to recognize, to do nothing to lessen, to exploit, whatever pre-existing fissures exist in the Camp of Islam. In Iraq there are two: the sectarian and the ethnic. In Afghanistan, save for the Shi'a Hazara, the country is riven by rivalry between Tadjiks, Uzbeks, and Pashtuns. Use it, use it to divide, and to keep constantly unsettled, the re-emergence of the Taliban, where possible. Do not build roads or schools or do anything that will help the Taliban and local Muslims to emerge from a hardscrabble existence. It is that hardscrabble subsistence farming or raiding that is the surest guarantee that people will be kept so busy staying alive that they won't have time for Jihad, which is what you do once your minimal needs are taken care of. Don't take care to help with those minimal needs.
And while the spectacle of internecine warfare, not necessarily at a high level -- in Iraq, the Shi'a will simply make clear that they have no intention of re-admitting Sunnis to Baghdad, and whatever attacks on Shi'a take place after the Americans withdraw, will be met with further attacks on Sunnis in Baghdad. Meanwhile, in the north, the Americans for reasons of realpolitik reasons could be supporting the Kurds, because the more powerful the Kurds, the more likely they will obtain an independent state. The great inhibiting factor is apparently the government of Turkey, which is in the hands of Erdogan. But the Turkish army's opposition, which does worry, can be overcome, if it can be demonstrated that an independent Kurdistan will have to rely on American support, and the Americans, in turn, will be the guarantors, who can withhold arms and diplomatic support, that Kurdish irredentism will apply, with a vengeance, to Iran and to Syria, but not in eastern Anatolia. There are ways to make this case, but they require taking a different tack with Turkey, or at least with its military.
The use of Iraq as a permanent fault line for Sunni-Shi'a clashes, the loss to the "Persian" Shi'a of Baghdad, for four hundred years the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate, so central to the history, real or imaginatively reconstructed, that history-haunted Arab Muslims (returning, again and again, to imagined past glories of culture, munificence, and power -- often greatly exaggerated -- which can never be acquiesced in by those Sunnis, -- suggests that an Iraq without the American presence will be a source of permanent tension between Shi'a Iran (and its succursales among the Shi'a of who form the majority in Bahrain, almost half the population in Yemen, 20% of the populatiion in Pakistan, and a plurality of the population in Yemen, not to mention Syria, where the Alawites have been attempting to legitimize themselves as Muslims by use of a Shi'a fatwa, when the Sunni Arabs know perfectly well that the Mary-worshippping syncretistic Alawite despots are not real Muslims, and could, should, would be slaughtered -- not an Alawite village would be safe -- should the Alawite regime ever fall.
The consequences of an American withdrawal would be, to save money, lives, even rescue the American officer corps from further shrinkage -- all those non-reupping captains, by now 15,000 0f them who cannot be easily replaced -- that leads ot a decline in morale and in quality. And then, the preciipitous attack on Iraq, followed by the years of staying stuck to Tarbaby Iraq, with -- at the top -- every evasion, every distraction, every short-term task of "
what is ludicrously called "winning" in Iraq, would no longer be possible, and harder heads would reconsider the ideology of the Total System of Islam, reconsider the amazing failure to consider the main instruments of Jihad -- the Money Weapon, campaigns of Da'wa and, especially in Western Europe, inexorable demographic conquest, if the Infidels remove almost all of their troops, but watch the spectacle of internecine warfare from afar, ablle to intervene, from afar, with intelligence (spy satellites, drones) and with weapons, when and if necessary -- essentially, what the Americans did, to a degree, during the Iran-Iraq War. That war should have gone on forever. Sunni-Shia conflicts can go on forever, if only the Americans leave Iraq. Non-Arab Muslims can better be inspired to see islam for what it is -- a vehicle of Arab linguistic, cultural, political and economic imperialism -- if trhey have an example of a non-Arab Muslim people throwing off the Arab yoke. An independent Kurdistan fits the bill.
But as long as those military men, like the one in Afghanistan deploring the Wilders movie -- in other words, demonstrating his ignorance of, or indifference to, the need to rouse the people of the Netherlands, where a million Muslims now unsettlingly have settled (in 1970 there were 15,000) -- think only of what is right in front of them, and not of the larger war of which Iraq or Afghanistan are very small theatres, the squandering and the waste,and the wasted opportunities will contiinue.
Nazeems, I care not one whit for allahSPIT nor mudSNOT, so spare us your lectures on how to address them. We don't even believe in them.
Assalamau Laikum j_not_a,
You say "I care not one whit for allahSPIT nor mudSNOT, so spare us your lectures on how to address them. We don't even believe in them".
Ofcourse you don't....you are Kaffur....polluted, free of manners and respect for others....but that's OK ...it really is!
j_not_a....enjoy...for your generation will be the last ....the start of moving away from your way of life to that chosen by Allah SWT will begin.
I am not a betting muslima (for betting is against Islam) ....but if I were...I would bet that your grandaughter will be like me....a proud muslima....and I have faith in Allah SWT that this will be so....just so long as she is Ahmadi.
"Know that when you wake up in the morning and want to go to the toilet....Islamically you MUST enter (as I do) the toilet facilities with your right foot 1st. When you leave ...you leave through the left foor 1st...and indeed there are many other rules....peoples, there ia a REAL danger of misrepresenting these rules and corrupting Islam...."
Wow. Is that what got Theo Van Gogh killed? Misrepresenting Muslims' potty habits?
Like Hugh said: "...Muslims can always be whipped up. They don't need a film or cartoons. They are very good at manufacturing their own reasons for being whipped up."
As a society, do we want to continue to be afraid of a bunch of knuckle-draggers or do we want get down to it and take care of business? When the M-13 gangs who live amongst some of us start killing people and breaking things do the police sit by and let them get away with it? No way! They go after them with full force. Is the affirmation that has been repeated over and over again, "Islam is a religion of Peace," so powerful that what we see before our own eyes no longer has any merit?
I've always been a truth seeker myself, and the truth does indeed set you free. So let's see the movie and let's see the truth, and let us let others see it so they can get rid of that icky feeling that tells them one thing but shows them another.
To the muslim/ahmadiya (fake muslim) troll:
"allah" is Satan and muhammad is his demon minion, leading you all to Hell.
Naseem writes:
'The verses of the Koran recorded during Muhd's SAW years in Mecca presented, in greater part, the metaphysical and ethical aspects of his non-violent and reformatory philosophy. In the verses composed during his ten years in Medina, a greater emphasis on the temporal appears.'
You appear to acknowledge that the peaceful Meccan suras are universalist, but the warlike Medinan suras are particularist, and temporal in the context of the seventh century.
Am I correct?
Come come, now Naseem. Who do you think has a better chance of submitting to the other's belief system, j_not_a's grandaughter, who will be at the beach with me and my grandkids and loving every minute of it, or your grandkids from that British daughter-in-law of yours, who can't be as stupid as you think if she's unwilling to live in Lahole and prefers to stay in the UK. Your own grandkids will be influenced by their mother's Christian parents and will recoil at the idea of a million rules, especially the ones on how to go to the bathroom. That's one of the big differences between yours and ours, Naseem. We potty train our kids when they are one or two and then trust them to be able to make decisions on their own. We don't micro-manage every stinkin' thing they might do in the course of their day.
Man, I really do feel sorry for you. You sometimes sound like you have a brain but then you say things that make you look like a complete idiot. Why would any of us here, even if we only had half a brain, allow our grandkids to act like you?
Yes Isabella, my granddaughter who is now 15 and yours will be frolicking on the beach in their two-piece swimsuits, proudly NON-muslima!. I have taught her well about islam, you may be sure and she despises it as much as I do.
She loves clothes, make-up, and music; we get our hair and nails done together and dance together. We love the life and freedom that Jah the true god has given us and NOTHING will change that.
I can see Rage Boy and his like minded ilk all over the world, licking their lips in anticipation of the release of this film and ready to burn, beat and kill.
This will make the reaction to the Mo cartoons look tame by comparison.
posted above: This will make the reaction to the Mo cartoons look tame by comparison.
Especially if (as in the Mo cartoon debacle) a prominent Muslim peddles fake footage to his Rage Boy cronies that is indeed offensive, but not representative of the actual film in question.
Naseem states: "....but there are real dangers to corrupting the pure nature of Islam."
NEWS FLASH! Islam is already corrupt!
Islam is an evil and violent religion (I use that term loosely), founded by an evil and violent man, carried on by the evil and violent who have deceived many who otherwise would not be so.
Naseem, you are among the deceived. Snap out of it.
Naseem,
[This is utter poppy-cock. I write SWT and SAW even when writing on muslim forums....there is no war cry here...]
maza tosumi haza bel arabi?
Using SWT and SAW, you remind them of war against other beliefs, for which reason you say SWT and SAW in unison.
inta fahamt?
"Know that when you wake up in the morning and want to go to the toilet....Islamically you MUST enter (as I do) the toilet facilities with your right foot 1st. When you leave ...you leave through the left foor 1st..."
Think of how much better the world would be if we could just get everyone to enter and leave a lavatory on the correct foot.
Emagine how civilization and morality would be advanced if the world would just learn how to take an Allah-inspired, proper Islamic dump.
Pitiful!!!
"...proper Islamic dump."
If by proper you mean, foul smelling and taking up a disproportionately large amount of space.;)
ISLAMSFORLOSERS,
This movie is truly a sign of growing angry backlash coming from the west to the Muslim community.
Re: the "Goldberg" guy up above, Mohammed Bouyeri, the assassin of Theo Van Gogh, pinned a long, rambling, apocalyptic note on Van Gogh's chest -- he "pinned" it with a knife into his ribs after having shot him (as one source* puts it: [after trying to decapitate** Van Gogh with a machete, Bouyeri] then stuck a small filet knife into his chest (so deep that it touched the spine) pinning a note...
Anyway, in that note was the following:
What do you think of the fact that the Mayor of Amsterdam is at the helm of an ideology whereby Jews have to lie to non Jews? Baba Kamma 113a : Jews may use lies ("listen") to mislead gentiles .
The full note has 1,864 words, written all in Dutch -- by a Moroccan Muslim born in Amsterdam; so much for the "lack of education" of Muslim terrorists.
Dutch original of the above:
Wat vindt u van het feit dat er een burgemeester in Amsterdam aan het roer staat, die een ideologie aanhangt waarin Joden tegen niet-Joden mogen liegen? Baba Kamma 113a: Joden mogen leugens ("listen") gebruiken om een Gentile te misleiden.
Other pleasant tidbits from Mohammed Bouyeri's note:
And as a great Prophet once said :
"And I surely know that you, O Pharoah, will be destoyed". (17:102).
So will we use the same names and send this out ahead of us, so that the heavens and the stars will receive this news and this will be spread as a tidal wave throughout all the corners of the universe.
"I surely know that you, O America, will be destroyed ".
"I surely know that you O Europe, will be destroyed"
"I surely know that you O Holland will be destroyed"
"I surely know that you, O Hirshi Ali will be destroyed"
"I surely know that you, O unbelieving fundamentalists, will be destroyed "
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/312
* http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:fLpUsdMmUEwJ:research.yale.edu/ccs/documents/public/eyerman_vanGogh.pdf+%22theo+van+gogh%22+shot+mohammed+bouyeri+eyewitness+decapitation&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a
**
One witness reported Bouyeri, while trying to decapitate Van Gogh in broad daylight on the street, used "calm and controlled... cutting movements" and that "[i]t seemed if he was cutting of[f] a slice of roast beef".
http://dutchreport.blogspot.com/2005_01_01_dutchreport_archive.html
Being able to download the film from the Internet would be nice.
Thanks ssa for your information about SWT and SAW. Thank you too Naseem, for your translation of SWT SAW.
"Allah is pure of having partners and He is exalted from having a son." doesn't sound very friendly, when ties with 9:29, 9:5, etc.
Hugh for Secretary of State!
The Goldberg Variations:
Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews, Jews!
*Yawn*.
When will jihadi trolls get some new material or a more cunning sense of humor?
These Protocols retreads are thinner than their ever-irritable Mohammedan skin.
Hey, "Goldberg". How long have you worked for Der Sturmer? Get lost you flippin' creep.
Re: the "Goldberg" guy up above:
Mohammed Bouyeri, the assassin of Theo Van Gogh, pinned a long, rambling, apocalyptic note on Van Gogh's chest -- he "pinned" it with a knife into his ribs after having shot him (as one source* puts it: [after trying to decapitate** Van Gogh with a machete, Bouyeri] then stuck a small filet knife into his chest (so deep that it touched the spine) pinning a note...
Anyway, in that note was the following:
What do you think of the fact that the Mayor of Amsterdam is at the helm of an ideology whereby Jews have to lie to non Jews? Baba Kamma 113a : Jews may use lies ("listen") to mislead gentiles .
The full note has 1,864 words, written all in Dutch -- by a Moroccan Muslim born in Amsterdam; so much for the "lack of education" of Muslim terrorists.
Dutch original of the above:
Wat vindt u van het feit dat er een burgemeester in Amsterdam aan het roer staat, die een ideologie aanhangt waarin Joden tegen niet-Joden mogen liegen? Baba Kamma 113a: Joden mogen leugens ("listen") gebruiken om een Gentile te misleiden.
Other pleasant tidbits from Mohammed Bouyeri's note:
And as a great Prophet once said :
"And I surely know that you, O Pharoah, will be destoyed". (17:102).
So will we use the same names and send this out ahead of us, so that the heavens and the stars will receive this news and this will be spread as a tidal wave throughout all the corners of the universe.
"I surely know that you, O America, will be destroyed ".
"I surely know that you O Europe, will be destroyed"
"I surely know that you O Holland will be destroyed"
"I surely know that you, O Hirshi Ali will be destroyed"
"I surely know that you, O unbelieving fundamentalists, will be destroyed "
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/312
* http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:fLpUsdMmUEwJ:research.yale.edu/ccs/documents/public/eyerman_vanGogh.pdf+%22theo+van+gogh%22+shot+mohammed+bouyeri+eyewitness+decapitation&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a
**
One witness reported Bouyeri, while trying to decapitate Van Gogh in broad daylight on the street, used "calm and controlled... cutting movements" and that "[i]t seemed if he was cutting of[f] a slice of roast beef".
http://dutchreport.blogspot.com/2005_01_01_dutchreport_archive.html
Islam is ONE BIG DECEPTION!
This movie is truly a sign of growing angry backlash coming from the west to the Muslim community.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 29, 2008 2:35 PM
Let's hope more movies of this type are made. We've had enough of the "Islam is peaceful" type propaganda movies already.
I can obviously see what will happens after the release of this film: riots and poisoning of relations between europe and islam. I guess this is what the makers of the films are actually seeking.
They know very well these consequences but of course when it actually happens, they will raise thheir eye brows in innocence and claim they DID NOT HAVE ANY IDEA there film will provoke anyone, and move to offer "sincere" apologies.
Posted by: Goldberg
I didn't need Hugh to mention that this "Goldberg" is anything but a Goldberg. Just like I am anything but a musulm. Or whatever the followers of Satan choose to call themselves.
But what he says is quite revealing.. standard MoFoe rhet.
First the point how the movie will cause "poisoning of the relations between Europe and islam". As if a. they weren't poisoned already. Have been ever since the first of these relentless proselytizers of Evil have been battering our shores.
b. He makes the implicit assertion that we need relations between Europe and islam. I say we do NOT need them at all. Fences make good neighbors.
The Bosporus is a natural barrier. I see no problem with retaking at least the European parts of what they robbed from Bulgaria and Greece and returning that to their rightful owners.
Thus rolling back islam to Asia Minor. Should their aggression not cease we would have to take further action.
Fortress Europe could very easily be a reality if only - IF ONLY - we could win the hearts and minds of those among us who keep talking about winning the hearts and minds of those who through their actions have proven they have neither.
In "Goldberg's" second paragraph I chose to highlight he does the typical mahometan blame-the-victim game. Basically it's the "uncovered meat" argument. As in: "You should have known better than to exercise your constitutionally guaranteed Rights and Freedoms since you know how we mahometans have already threatened to react."
That's the patent absurdity of islam. Which is what we expect of them. Nothing less and certainly nothing better. Ever. I expect nothing positive from them. I KNOW them.
But I had expected better of our so-called "leaders" and our "fearless and freedom-defending" "whistleblowing" *journalists* *artists* and *intellectuals*
Instead we see them kowtowing to the demands of these interlopers on our shores. We see them passing laws criminalizing Freedom of Expression, we see the MSM and all our leftist "artistes" - the "meinungs-mafia" - labelling anyone who is less than enthused by this invasion and teardown of our own native cultures as "racists" and "nazis" and "xenophobes". I am not any of those things, thank you very much.
But I am proud to tell you and anyone who needs to know that I am an islamoPHOBE!!!
As one who knows how to read between the lines when it comes to statements like the one by this phoney "Goldberg" how could I be anything BUT.
I am an islamoSAVANT.
Hugh wrote:
"If the movie is sensible, if it sticks to the passages of the Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira, and how they are received, and does not offer any assertion without a great deal of evidence to back it up, then it will have to be shown, and disseminated widely if only so that what it in fact is can be compared to what hysterical Muslims claim it is, and will do everything they can, to prevent everyone -- Muslim and Infidel -- from seeing."
Yes. If Wilders' film IS (as Hugh and all of us hope), 'sensible', accurate, realistic, then every Infidel general of every Infidel army and every commissioner of police - especially those in India, Thailand, the Philippines and Ethiopia, and not excluding Russia and China - should not give a damn about upsetting the Muslims. Instead, they should be ordering multiple copies and showing the film, repeatedly, translated/ subtitled as necessary, in every Infidel boot camp, officers' training college and police academy.
Oh, and hasten the day when cheap, pocket-sized, grubby, dog-eared and heavily scribbled-on copies of 'Onward Muslim Soldiers' and 'PIG to Islam and the Crusades', or even 'The Truth About Muhammad', in English or translation, will be found in every Infidel soldier's knapsack or stuffed in his back pocket, next to his iron rations.
Uh-oh! Muslims misbehaving again, and the movie hasn't even come out yet.
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23434725-details/Islamic+extremist+gang+%27plotted+to+kidnap+British+Muslim+soldier+and+behead+him+like+a+pig%27/article.do
I see several examples of statements which seem to question Wilder’s motivation for making this film. For example (from a link to the previous article):
“Bob Crane…thinks Geert Wilders, the Dutch politician who is making the film, is just trying to provoke such [violent] reactions..”
And from a Bill Roggio link to our own military command in Afghanistan who state “While his party does favor immigration restrictions, especially from non-western countries; the corresponding surge in popularity provides a suspicious motive for his latest “exercise in free speech.”
So presumably Wilders “motivation” for making this film is in question by a number of people. And indeed in the clip I watched of Wilders he seems to be defending his own motivation for making the film, trying to reassure the interviewer that he isn’t merely trying to goad Muslims into a violent response.
But I really don’t understand any of that. As far as I’m concerned, Wilders motivation in making this film is completely irrelevant.
What if his motivation WERE merely akin to that of a bullfighter who knows that if he waves a red flag in front of a bull the bull is going to go for it? That’s the nature of the bull and people, given their scientific/observant natures, don't shy away from an opportunity to observe the true nature of things. If all one has to do is wave the red flag in front of a bull, how many people resist such a spectacle? The only thing people typically worry about in such a scenario is the spectators who could be hurt by the bull.
The lesson here is that the bull – given its obvious nature – needs to be penned to where it can’t hurt any innocent bystanders given a scenario in which people merely enjoy the sport of watching what the bull does when it sees the red flag. And obviously if any innocent spectators appear to be in danger you shoot the bull.
No one is making Muslims act like bulls who have just seen a red flag. As human beings Muslims actually have a choice to ignore the red flag. But if they choose to act like animals instead, I actually wouldn’t blame anyone for taking advantage of that fact merely for the sheer spectacle of it. In fact, I feel even less sympathy for them knowing that they are actually human beings who have a choice to determine their own nature, unlike real bulls who have no such choice.
Isabellathecrusader, or as they call you, Isabella, thanks for the link to the 'this is london' news site.
Nice bunch of "citizens" these guys are. I love the leader letting the state pay him to "care" for his mother while he is planning to kidnap and murder a soldier who protects that same state. He's insulted that a Muslim could serve the country, but he has no qualms about a Muslim (himself) benefitting from the country.
I wonder how many soldiers, airmen, and Marines are being warned about this type of thing by their command when they go out for a 48 or 72 hour liberty? I hope it's now standard fare for the "safety briefing" before each off-base liberty.
I love how Naseem can use the word kaffur as a term of endearment or an insult, depending on her mood. The threat about how Islam will be important to our Granddaughters, if not to us, is old news also.
She is at war people. She is at the front lines of the Deception and Deceit Brigade. She always starts out civil, but her Muslim upbringing and sense of superiority shines through every time.
In her tiny little world, Islam will triumph over all mankind, and once subjugated, peace will follow. The peace that comes from having no choices in life...where every facet of your life is dictated to you by those that "interpret" the Koran. Kinda reminds me of that Star Trek episode where the computer takes over a planets people and makes them "happy". You are not of the body. You must become part of the body or die. Same insanity. Same join or die. The peace of Landru or the peace of Allah...same thing. No choice. Just submission to power mad Mullahs who don't give a damn if yer happy or not. At least the computer was actually trying to make people happy. Islam doan give a crap how you feel...just that you submit.
Sorry Naseem. No one here is going to surrender to the tyranny that is Islam. We will all resist with every means at our disposal and Islam will fail to conquer the world as you and yours desire. Moreover...if Islams Jihadis do not cease their conquest of the world, Islam, and those who serve it will cease to exist at the hands of freedom loving people the world over...whether Allah wills it or not.
"Know that when you wake up in the morning and want to go to the toilet....Islamically you MUST enter (as I do) the toilet facilities with your right foot 1st. When you leave ...you leave through the left foor 1st...and indeed there are many other rules...."
Other rules:
1)Never open an umbrella in the house.
2)Never sleep under the rays of the full moon, or you will become a "lunatic".
3)When you spill salt, throw a pinch over your left shoulder, to ward off bad luck.
4)Never walk under a ladder.
5)Never break a mirror, as doing so will result in 7 years of bad luck.
6) If a black cat crosses your path, you are doomed.
7) To get rid of a wart, cut a potato in half, on the night of the full moon, rub one of the halves on the wart then either bury the half of the potato used, or turn around three times and throw the potato half over your shoulder. Don't look back, or you won't be cured of your wart.
8)When camping in rattlesnake territory, lay a rope out in a circle around your campsite or tent; rattlesnakes won't cross this barrier.
9)A loose bird, flying around in your house is bad luck. (Personally, I'm screwed on this one, as I own a very lively cockatiel.)
10) The hooting of an owl, heard three nights in succession, is an indicator that someone is going to die. (This is very true. People die, every day.)
Rules, or superstitions? You decide.